S01.E04: The Gathering

[Sakura12]

Claire has to notice there is something up with Geillis, right? Or I suppose I can go with she's focused on escaping she's not paying attention to anything else. Even poor Jamie. He's probably wondering if there's a love potion to get her attention. 

 

I loved when Claire told Angus that there was a sedative in the port. I didn't catch what he said just that he had no clue what that word meant. 

 

Collum's appearance confused me too for a second. I liked that Dougal saw what Claire can do and noticed that she's been around the dying and knows how to help them not think about it. She's slowly winning everyone over even when it just ties her more to them than before.

 

I dated an Irish guy that played Hurling so that's what it looked like to me. I still don't get the point of the game since watching it real life it just looked a bunch of guys beating each other up with sticks. To be fair Hockey looks like boxing on Ice to me as well. (Although I do give them a lot of credit for having so much coordination on ice.)

 

Also, lastly I don't like spending most of the episode wondering when Jamie's showing up. 

Edited September 1, 2014 by Sakura12

[bittersweetlily]

Laoghaire's sweetness did have a drop of poison to it. She's not as apt in her act as Gaellis, but she'll get there. Still, she and Jamie kissed last episode and now she needs a love potion. Would that mean he stopped their loose behaviour after being seen by Claire? And now Laoghaire is desperate to get his "heart" back.

What I read from the scene was that Laoghaire knows that Jamie is not really emotionally engaged when they are fooling around -- that it's fun and release for him. But, clearly, it's more for her. However, what Laoghaire asked of Claire was a way "to move [Jamie's] heart forward" or for Jamie to feel for Laoghaire what she feels for him.

[mybabyaidan]

Okay, I amend my post to "sort of facing/in the general direction of the camera". :p 

 

Hee, I get what you meant.  I just had read another article where they were complaining about Jamie breaking the 4th wall, and I was like, "where??"  They made it sound like he looked at the camera and winked or something.  That's the only reason I really took notice and re watched....(well, ok, not really the ONLY reason)

 

The angle was definitely optimal for giffing and swooning, but I think it was also very effective in presenting, in simplest form, Jamie's most defining character aspect. And that, to me, is him embracing his role as a natural leader. In the first episode we see him play tough, sort of emulating Dougal when he needs to hold onto Claire as his prisoner, and then in the next few episodes, he's sort of trying to keep his head down. Then you have Claire there challenging him (like with helping the boy with the nail in his ear) and he starts to grow more confident. I thought the camera looking at him straight on when he uttered that line to be the perfect introduction to the character he'll be growing into.

 

Great description of the scene. 

 

It's amazing what a clean shave can do for a man sometimes.  Collum looked like a different man.  Claire's dress at the Gathering was gorgeous, but I wonder how easy it was for poor CB to breath in it.  Geez was the bodice tight.  

[nyxy]

 

Seriously, Claire, giving Laoghaire a love potion for Jamie with dried horse dung as the main ingredient?  Not cool at all.  Speaking of Jamie, it took him like 30 minutes to even show up on screen.  That was way too long, if you ask me.

 

Damn Dougal, I kind of like you, but why did you have to go and try to assault Claire?  That was gross.  At least she walloped him over the head pretty good.  For an older looking gentleman, he sure has a lot of spunk, as witnessed in the game at the end there.

LOL, I had the same thought during the scene between Laoghaire & Claire.. The dried horse dung was pretty funny.

 

Poor Laoghaire. She's low on self-esteem and I'm guessing that pining over Jamie isn't helping to raise it.

 

Dougal's behavior is  mystifying. He deserved that wallop. On the other hand, he has a decent side...doesn't he? ...I think in ep 1 or 2  he told his men he didn't hold with raping- which is more than Jack Randall would have done.

 

Very hard to tell what's going on in Dougal's head. And he cares for his men, eg Geordie. I can't figure out why he's so down on Jamie.  Maybe he sees Jamie as somehow being in the way of Hamish (who, as some of us were speculating earlier, could actually be Dougal's son, not Colum's...also Geordie said Dougal was always one for the ladies, so that enforces the King Arthur-Guinevere-Sir Lancelot overtones to these relationships)

.

But even if Dougal is acting out of ambition for himself or others, he is not stupid and he generally has his emotions well in check. If he were really out to get Jamie, would he show his hand so openly?

 

Ok,.(but this doesn't seem all that likely either), maybe Dougal is really rooting for Jamie but doesn't want to appear too soft on him, so it's something to do with making a man of Jamie? That's not sounding too right either.

I just don't think it'll be some crude self-gain motive. Dougal's shown enough nobility and decency to suggest that his motives have to be complex  IMO...

Edited September 1, 2014 by nyxy

[Glaze Crazy]

As a book reader, the first watch is me comparing it to the book, but the next watch is allowing myself to appreciate how well the show runners are doing at really making the story compelling visually.  I continue to like how each episode reveals more about the family intrigue and still has us wondering what the heck is going on here.

 

I liked the interaction with Geillis in the surgery.  Jamie had given Claire the perfect description of where Frank was in the 2nd episode ("not alive") and when Claire tried to use the same term, Geillis pretty much forced her to say he was dead.  Geillis seems to be very observant so I can see she is getting a weird vibe from Claire so their friendship is continuing to get interesting.

 

Laoghaire asking for a love potion from Claire was another good bit, liked that Claire figured the smell of horse dung wouldn't be noticeable to Jamie at the stables plus she knew it was harmless anyway.  It shows that Laoghaire considers Claire an ally in her desire to get Jamie to fall in love with her and not a rival.  But the consequences of this action might have several negative results in the future and I like that an extra layer has been added to this storyline without altering it.

 

I like that Murtagh was the one giving the exposition to Claire at the gathering.  I agree with those upthread who are saying how much more interesting this character has become in the show.  He clearly has Jamie's back and seems to be the primary person at the castle that Jamie spends his time with. Since he was in the upstairs gallery, he wasn't expected to pledge fealty to Colum, so what was that supposed to imply, if anything?  I don't know if every man of the clan present in the hall would have been expected to pledge that night though.

 

Claire's interactions with Dougal are also interesting.  He seems to be torn on how he feels about her.  He's probably still suspicious of who she is, but he is clearly impressed with her healing skills and maybe just a bit attracted to her.  I also liked Dougal's character arc in this episode.  He clearly has a leader personality but he's not in the clan leader's position so his frustration at that role gets shown several times.  When he stopped the clansmen from accosting Claire, even though it was in Gaelic it looked like they didn't have a problem arguing with him about it.  The shinty game after the boar tynchal was such a release of frustration on his part and lucky for him that Jamie was there to take it out on.

 

I agree that it would have been great to see the exact speech from the book that Jamie gives to Colum but I did like that Jamie kept eye contact with Colum. It was clear that Colum was a bit concerned that all hell was about to break loose in his hall until Jamie made it clear he was obedient to Colum if not sworn to the clan.  It is easy to see there might be a divide in the clan about who should become Laird when Colum dies, if more than one capable candidate is available.  See above mentioned scene with Dougal and the clansmen who argued with him earlier.

 

Jamie and Claire's scene in the stable was great.  He was clearly worried she had been hurt by the clansmen but finding out she'd brained Dougal definitely showed him she was no shrinking violet.  Liked that he laughed and assured her it was OK since Dougal wouldn't remember it anyway.  Of course, he still got to come to her defense when they got caught outside the castle, so he's still a hero.  The scene inside, lighted by candles and firelight, was clearly lit for the best benefit of Sam/Jamie.  It's the best he's looked so far without being too neat or clean.  When he was first cast in this role I had my doubts since I never saw Jamie as a pretty boy, but I think Sam in action makes him a good fit as Jamie. 

[Athena]

This episode really was about the Mackenzie men, but I agree Murtagh and Dougal shone for me. The scene with Jordy/Geordie's death was beautiful. I found it moving and well acted by everyone all around.

 

Dougal is a complex character and they gave him a lot in this episode. He loves his brother and his clan, but it must irk him how he should be and considered the leader in many ways. Throw poor Jamie in that mix and it makes everything even more frustrating for him. I don't think he was going to rape Claire either; it was more of a drunken forced snog. Still good she hit him over the head with a chair. He deserved it and more. I'm glad Jamie walloped him later. 

 

Loved what Geillis's hair and outfits this episode. Lotte Verbeek has such a classic face. It's perfect for period pieces.

 

I also enjoyed the 1940s music in the earlier scenes. It was an odd juxtaposition, but worked for the show.

 

Enjoyed all the Jamie scenes as usual. They really did do a fanservice moment of him wearing that white shirt loosely, his hair unkempt and speaking French almost directly to the camera. 

 

Pestilentia: I put an additional spoiler tag because Jamie's name has not been mentioned yet on the show. Please feel free to edit however you wish as well. Thank you. 

 

Thanks again to the book walkers for avoiding too much book talk. As always, there is Books vs. Show and Book 1: Outlander for you to discuss in detail. 

[Helena Dax]

Loved the scenes with Claire and Jamie, they have an amazing chemistry. The show is awesome, but it gets even better when they're together. Also, Dougal's a fascinating character, I think the actor's doing a great job.

[Pestilentia]

Pestilentia: I put an additional spoiler tag because Jamie's name has not been mentioned yet on the show. Please feel free to edit however you wish as well. Thank you. 

 

 

Oops- and thanks!

I was so worried about whether or not her year of death needed spoilerized that I didn't even consider if her married/last name needed it as well.

[mybabyaidan]

I forgot to mention one of my favorite parts:

 

After the game/fight is over and Dougal stalks away....Jamie and Murtagh do the bro hug and Jamie asks "Did we win?"

 

I didn't catch it the first time, but caught it the second.  

 

 

Pestilentia: I put an additional spoiler tag because Jamie's name has not been mentioned yet on the show. Please feel free to edit however you wish as well. Thank you.

 

Does discussing

the fact that Jamie yells "Fraser" when he is passing the ball to Murtagh count as a spoiler?  Since book readers know it's significant, but non book readers might not have caught it, or understood what it meant, I was unsure how to bring it up....

Edited September 1, 2014 by mybabyaidan

[Pestilentia]

I forgot to mention one of my favorite parts:

 

After the game/fight is over and Dougal stalks away....Jamie and Murtagh do the bro hug and Jamie asks "Did we win?"

 

I didn't catch it the first time, but caught it the second.  

 

 

Does discussing

the fact that Jamie yells "Fraser" when he is passing the ball to Murtagh count as a spoiler?  Since book readers know it's significant, but non book readers might not have caught it, or understood what it meant, I was unsure how to bring it up....

Well it is

Murtagh's last name

- do we know that already or not?

[Athena]

mybabyaidan and Pestilentia: Since the significance has not been spelled out in the show, please keep it to Book Talk topics for now. It's probably not a big spoiler in the big scheme of things, but better safe than sorry. Thanks!

 

In knitting and crafting news, I really liked Claire's cute knit capelet. I think that is the one piece I've wanted to knit so far. I already have a few pairs of arm warmers. 

[Nidratime]

Since he was in the upstairs gallery, he wasn't expected to pledge fealty to Colum, so what was that supposed to imply, if anything?  I don't know if every man of the clan present in the hall would have been expected to pledge that night though.

 

 

Well, I think that's because Murtaugh

is not of the Mackenzie clan. He's a Fraser, like Jamie and Jamie's father. He wouldn't ever be expected to pledge fealty to the Mackenzies.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Nidratime

[BizBuzz]

I really wish Dougal wouldn't have done what he did to Claire, cause I could easily have some affection for him.  I hated that I loved him in the dying scene. 

 

Wow, everyone sure cleaned up nice for The Gathering!

 

Jamie BARE CHEST!  ::giggle::

 

The 40's music through me.  It just didn't fit, and I couldn't figure out why it was there.  Hurumph...

[Nidratime]

The 40's music through me.  It just didn't fit, and I couldn't figure out why it was there.  Hurumph...

 

 

I think it was there because it was the music in Claire's head as she was planning her escape. That music is her touchstone. The music of *her* life 200 years in the future. If she was singing or humming anything in her head it's more likely to be something like that rather than what the minstrel who visited the castle just sang.

[WaltersHair]

Is Dougal married?

 

As a non-book reader, modestly embarrassed watcher, I'm enjoying the scenery, fashion, history, etc. On that level this is a good watch.

I played field hockey in high school. That shit hurts.

I thought it was tacky of the author to show up in such an speaking part. YMMV.

[Nidratime]

As a non-book reader, modestly embarrassed watcher, I'm enjoying the scenery, fashion, history, etc. On that level this is a good watch.

 

 

Why are you modestly embarrassed? I don't want to presume I know why, but if you enjoy something why should you care what other people's opinions might be. After all, it's not illegal, or even a scandal, to like this show or read the books. ;-)

 

There are many people with very "unusual" interests, like stamp collecting, comic books, karaoke, Star Trek, NASCAR, mysteries, fantasy baseball, video games, and it goes on and on....

 

Unless it's immoral and/or illegal, I would never be embarrassed.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Nidratime

[CatMack]

Murtagh explained that because Jamie has MacKenzie blood, he's be eligible for the lairdship, just like any other man with MacKenzie blood. What makes Jamie dangerous though, is that he's the only other candidate that can challenge Dougal's loyalty among the clansmen. What I don't understand is why Rupert would push Jamie to pledge when he's shown sympathy toward him during the hall beating. Did everyone not know the "damned if I do/damned if I don't"ness of the scenario? The tension when he stepped up to pledge suggested that everyone knew.

 

I don't think it was really Rupert who pushed him though.  Rupert came up on their little group after the other men had already pressed the issue and Jamie was beating people up to protect Claire.  I think his goal was to diffuse the situation and get everyone inside quickly before anyone got really really violent.  Even if he felt sympathy for Jamie, and I think he did, he couldn't really go against the other men at that point.

 

ETA: On another note, I just saw a gif on tumblr pointing out that when Jamie first walked into the hall, Sam did the little finger-tap-on-leg thing that Jamie always does in the books when he's thinking.  I just adore this cast.

Edited September 1, 2014 by CatMack

[mybabyaidan]

 

Is Dougal married?

 

I don't think they have said in the show, can someone confirm? 

 

CatMack, that was my interpretation of the Rupert knocking Jamie out scene.  He wasn't there when they first grabbed Claire (then Jamie) I looked specifically for him and didn't see him. 

[justspiffy]

 

The grass hockey game (or whatever that would be) reminded me of that one scene from the Last of the Mohicans with daniel Day-Lewis. This one was much more brutal though. I think Dougal wanted to vent his pain after losing Geordie (or, in general, after losing a man to a boar), plus his anger against Jamie (or, strictly speaking, Jamie's presence at leoch) got the best of him. The onlookers were all pretty shocked when he and Jamie went mano-a-mano.

 

And let me just say that Claire was adorable in her complex escape plan. She had everything written out in her head.

Oh boy, did that remind me of The Last of the Mohicans - even the music in the background. On a side note, I have photos taken by an extra on the set of Daniel Day-Lewis playing lacrosse with cast members on a break. Whew!!

Back to the episode, it's been years since I've read the books, so I'd forgotten much of the clannish politics, but I thought that they did a pretty good job of explaining the dilemma Jaime faced.

[Bort]

I don't think they have said in the show, can someone confirm? 

I haven't heard anyone say anything about Dougal's marital status, no.

[NoNeinNyet]

In knitting and crafting news, I really liked Claire's cute knit capelet. I think that is the one piece I've wanted to knit so far. I already have a few pairs of arm warmers. 

 

That was a darn cute cute capelet. It's convinced me that maybe I need a little garter stitch in my life.

[Haleth]

My oh my, didn't everyone look nice all cleaned up?

 

Jamie did a wonderful job with the sticky situation of the vow.  He may have effectively removed himself from succession but the clan will remember how well he found a solution that didn't insult anyone.  He had all the qualities of a formidible laird... or a gary stu.

 

I love how Dougal (LOL older looking gentleman) and Claire bonded over blood and gore.  He will continue to be suspicious of her but will also respect her skills and level headedness in the face of death.

 

For a minute I thought Laogheieio (not even going to try to spell her name) was played by the actress who plays Gilly, Craster's daughter/wife so I checked IMDB.  Nope, not her.  Oh, ok, Laoghaire.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Haleth

[knitpurl]

After a really strong episode last week, this one dragged to me - Claire repeating several times how this was her "only chance" to leave, the over the top clowning of Rupert (and what's his name) and finally Geordie's extended death scene.  One gory shot of his injuries would have been plenty, thanks.  It felt like filler.

 

Loved the 40's music drifting through the background.  The Jamie story was well executed...the actor playing him continues to impress even in small scenes.  He's got huge shoes to fill and is doing wonderfully.  Can't wait to get back to the action next week!

[BizBuzz]

Not a book reader ... this is just an observation.  I am wondering if those that are bookreaders are sort of anxious to have the story unfold since they know what to expect?  I am thoroughly enjoying the pace of the series so far.  I think it has been some excellent writing in the series to get me totally invested in the different players.  Based on the fact that the dialog is sort of hard to get into, and there are new words I am learning, the slower pace is engaging me in ways I haven't been engaged in a program in, yeah, I am gonna say it, in decades. 

 

It might just be me, but I am a fan of dialog movies/tv - I can go for the high action adventures, but the things that really draw me into a film is dialog.  I love play on words, I love seeing people interact with each other.  I am one of those people that can sit for hours in a mall and people watch, so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

The whole death scene, albeit a bit gorey, spoke VOLUMES to me that there is going to be something between the two of these characters.  And as much as I didn't like what Dougal did to Claire (even though he saved her first), that whole scene went a long way in redeeming his character in my eyes.  After all, men are kinda nuts when they drink.  ::giggle::

 

With this show, I feel like I am someone in the story, watching it unfold.  Being given just a little insight with each episode into what makes people tick.  Feeling like in outsider at first, I feel like I am part of the clan now.  You know, the one that is responsible for telling the story to the young ones.  I don't know if I am making sense or not.

 

Again, just an observation ... loving being able to spend this time with people watching it the same time I am.  And hearing all the different viewpoints.  It's been pretty awesome.

[Sakura12]

I'm enjoying the slow pace as well. I didn't find this episode boring or filler. I liked getting to know the other Clansmen a bit more and learning about the politics of the Clan. It does feel like along with Claire I'm getting to know these people. 

 

I liked that Claire knew how to play her watchdogs, she couldn't do that with Dougal but ended up gaining his respect just by showing him that she's seen the violent deaths of war and knows how to handle herself. He still doesn't trust her but she just made her skills useful to him.

 

I do have watch the episodes twice to get all the dialogue but the fact that I'm watching each episode twice is showing how much I really like this show. 

Edited September 1, 2014 by Sakura12

[Pestilentia]

Other than the pilot, I love the slow pace- life in these times could be quite tedious and slam bam pacing is simply not realistic. To enjoy the entire spectrum of very finely written, fully developed characters takes time as well. Take that time to look at the staging, the costuming, the sheer amount of detail that went into each scene.

Even the death scene- it takes time to bleed out.

To have sped through that would have diminished the impact.

 

Now during the pilot I did get a bit antsy- I kept checking how many minutes were left and wanting them to get to Jamie.

Now, though, I am happy to allow things to unfold as they need to, and also understand how pacing influences the mood and tone of each scene. These were not novellas- there is a lot going on. Whether it feels like it or not, many of these details will be referenced later on.

And of course wishing they would "get to" one scene or another means it will be over sooner.

I would happily allow each episode to be five hours long if it meant I got more over the long haul.

[WatchrTina]

I have to agree with the poster upthread who said Graham McTavish is doing a braw job of depicting a truly "alpha" male.

I have to mildly mock anyone who describes him as "an older gentleman" (he and I are of an age, ye ken) or any who thinks Dougal would only fancy Claire only if he were 20 years younger. We don't yet know if Dougal is married but I am 100% confident that he would see himself as a perfectly suitable as a mate for a woman her age. I'm quite sure Dougal, like Miss Jean Brody (another famous Scottish literary figure) , would say they he is in his "prime" and like the men his age today (especially the wealthy or famous ones) he would consider a lass 20-30 years younger to be just what he is entitled to.

Also, it can't be mentioned enough, Graham McTavish is hot.

As I suspected, my favorite lines have already been spotted: Sam's purrrfect delivery of Jamie's clan motto and the quiet "did we win?" at the end of the shinty game. But no one mentioned Mrs. Fitz's whoop of joy after Jamie successfully navigated the rocky shoals of the not-oath-taking. Love her for that. And I loved Murtaugh's "I'm getting to old for this" as he Jamie exit the room. In fact I just love Murtaugh generally -- especially when he had Jamie's back during the Shinty game -- whacking Angus in his gentlemen's equipment and then admonishing him to "play nice!"

I thought the shinty game was cinematic genius. When I saw it as a preview clip I actually thought it was a bit silly that Dougal would be so aggressive. But him coming upon the game right after killing a boar and then holding a kinsman while he died -- well it made perfect sense that he'd throw himself into the game in a no-holds-barred way to work off all that emotion and adrenaline. And then finding himself face-to-face with Jamie who, let's not kid ourselves, is still a threat to Dougal's aspirations to laird-hood -- well his going after Jamie made perfect sense too. As did Jamie's fighting back full-steam. You can imagine that he's been in a state of anxiety for days, worrying about what might happen at the oath-taking. All that anticipation with no "release" at the end? You can well imagine that Jamie needed a safe way to work out his unspent energy.

Also, it can't be mentioned enough, Sam Heughan is hot.

Edited September 1, 2014 by WatchrTina

[bluebonnet]

I like the pacing as well.  With the sexual chemistry between Jamie and Claire, it seems clear that the show is headed in a J/C relationship direction.  I wouldn't want to see this happening too fast because it would make Claire less sympathetic when we have spent so much time building her relationship with Frank.  It also makes Jaime a bit too-good-to-be-true, which he's bordering on now as it is.  Claire spent years away from Frank without succumbing to lust and loneliness so I want to be shown exactly why Jamie is so worthy, and something beyond that he's just a genuinely good guy who does things like stand up for ladies, help children, maneuvers easily through the political machinations of the clan and castle, etc.  They've shown him to be a good catch for the viewers, but we haven't reached the point where he's a good enough catch for Claire to decide to stay in the 18th century rather than return to her own time.  Slow pacing in that regard is a good thing, plus I want to get to know these characters that Claire will be spending so much time with as they will undoubtedly be a part of her 18th century story.

 

The biggest issue I had with this particular episode is that the three parts seemed so disjointed and barely had anything to do with one another.  I didn't care for it on the first viewing.  I read a lot of posts here and noticed that I completely missed the 1940's score and when watching it again paying attention to that, it definitely worked out so much better for me as a viewer.  The escape attempt, the gathering, and the boar hunt were all such randomly different things that didn't flow well together but with attention paid to the musical score, it better put me inside Claire's head.  On first viewing, I felt like I had whiplash when the plot changed from one thing to another, but of course this is how Claire would likely be feeling.  Sort of dizzying, playing catch up and trying to figure out how to navigate these waters that is very much the norm for these people in which she's surrounded.  

 

I'm still so surprised that I like this show enough to rewatch it even once, and being honest, I've been rewatching episodes several times during the week.  Will probably rewatch this one again tonight.  These characters just feel very real for me.  Excellent casting.  

[attica]

If Claire gets tired of wowing the Scots with her medicine, she could always team up with the minstrels and bards and wow the crowds with some of the standards of wartime and post-war England. A plaintive rendition of "Sentimental Journey" would be a big hit at the Gatherings, I'm thinking.

 

Liked the fur-lined hoodie in the departure scene. Although I really doubt snow-white anything was a staple of 18th C Scottish fashion.

[WatchrTina]

Here are my favorite quotes from the very funny episode recap on HitFix.com:

Frank is totally Schrödinger's husband.

The only thing she doesn’t know is that Jamie is sleeping in the hay like the world’s sexiest speed bump.

So if Jamie swears the Oath to Colum, Dougal will kill him. And if he doesn’t, Dougal will kill him for disrespecting the head of the House. This is some Catch-22 bullshit.

I'm kinda loving that reviewer. She also acknowledges the power of the death scene, which was very well done. But that puts me in mind of one thing I did NOT like in the episode. Claire is a bit harsh to the first guy who gets gored by a boar. That was a pretty ugly wound she was binding up and she basically chastises him the whole time and tells him he'll have a limp a remarkably unsympathetic way. I did not think that was in keeping with Claire's personality. Calling Jamie an idiot for not telling her he'd been shot is one thing. Chewing out random highlander #27 for being gored during the communal hunt with his clan is quite another.

I found another wee moment to love. Auld Alec says of Claire's new mount, Brimstone, "Only thing is, if you're not minding her every moment, she'll turn for home first chance she gets." Just like Claire. Love that.

Edited September 1, 2014 by WatchrTina

[Proclone]

Here are my favorite quotes from the very funny episode recap on HitFix.com:

 

 

I'm kinda loving that reviewer.  She also acknowledges the power of the death scene, which was very well done.  But that puts me in mind of one thing I did NOT like in the episode.  Claire is a bit harsh to the first guy who gets gored by a boar.  That was a pretty ugly wound she was binding up and she basically chastises him the whole time and tells him he'll have a limp a remarkably unsympathetic way.  I did not think that was in keeping with Claire's personality.  Calling Jamie an idiot for not telling her he'd been shot is one thing.    Chewing out random highlander #27 for being gored during the communal hunt with his clan is quite another.  

 

I actually think that Claire yelling at the first injured man makes sense for her as a war nurse.  If she yelled at and generally gave a hard time to the boys she was treating they no doubt knew they were going to be alright.  If she was nice to them they might think it was because they were dying or at least really seriously injured. She was letting the man know that he was going to be fine by being kind of bitchy to him, or least that's how I interpreted the scene-YMMV of course.

[peacefrog]

Most everything has been said but I do love that Claire is constantly shown as thinking about getting out of there and being proactive about it! Even if she fails, the wheels keep turning. So refreshing to see a main character do this instead of sitting around discussing things.

I really loved the shinty game. Great addition to the episode. Also great was seeing more of what makes up both Jamie and Dougal's characterization. Loyalty oaths were serious back then and to successfully walk that line like Jamie did was huge. Douglas comforting Geordie was touching and shows he has heart. The shinty game was a great way to show them release their frustrations.

[WatchrTina]

 

I actually think that Claire yelling at the first injured man makes sense for her as a war nurse.  If she yelled at and generally gave a hard time to the boys she was treating they no doubt knew they were going to be alright.

Yeah, okay,  I can buy that.

 

So here are few more small moments in this episode that I loved.

 

Remember the woman that Rupert and Angus draw straws for?  In the credits she is identified as "Rubenesque Woman".  Good job show.  I would not have been happy with "Pie-eater" or "Hen with a bit of meat", which is how Rupert describes  her (though I'm sure he meant both as a compliment.)

 

When the clan cries out "Tulach Ard!" (the MacKenzie war cry) at the beginning of Colum's speech, Murtaugh does not join in.  It hasn't been made 100% clear just who Murtaugh is (though he's clearly Team!Jamie) but that suggests that he's not clan MacKenzie.

 

After Dougal gives his oath, he walks away and snatches up a bottle from someone and quaffs quite a bit of it.  The first time I saw that I wondered why.  Then I thought, oh the writers wanted to show that he was drinking heavily so that his drunken state when he encounters Claire makes sense.  But again I ask, why is he drinking so heavily?  I think this is a hint that the oath-taking is really hard on Dougal.  Having to stand by while everyone pledges their loyalty to his disabled brother instead of him -- being reminded that Colum, even with his disability, was chosen as Laird over him -- I think his heavy drinking is meant to show that it still grates on him.

 

This is echoed again if you watch Dougal carefully after Jamie successfully avoids taking the oath.  Any relief Dougal may have felt at Jamie's not declaring himself a MacKenzie is diminished somewhat by the warm reaction of the crowd to Jamie's declaration of alliance and obedience.  You can almost hear him think "Shit, they still love him."

 

I love, love, love the delivery of the following lines in the Angus and Claire scene:

Angus:  "Port" (post English accent)

Claire:  "'Tis" (broad Highland Scots accent)

Nice job delivering an accent in one word.

 

The very funny recapper over on HitFix has made much of Dougal's ninja abilities but Rupert goes him one better in this ep, turning up at just the right moment to stop Jamie's from fighting off that trio that catch him and Claire outside the castle.  BTW, you just know he was out looking for Claire (having noticed that his partner-in-guard duty was even more "in his cups" than usual) and that HE was the one who made sure the guy who grabbed Claire did not molest her.  This reading also explains Rupert's involvement in Jamie's being forced to go to the hall.  As one of Dougal's two main henchmen I'm sure Rupert had no particular interest in seeing Jamie take the oath and may have been under orders to ignore Jamie's absence.  But when he happened upon the fight and saw Claire being held he had no choice but to stop the fight (which meant disabling Jamie, as he explains in the next scene.)

 

Okay here are a few moments when I was taken out of the show due to my own really bad case of monkey mind.

 

When Jamie kneels down the violins kick in with that familiar we're-gonna-just-play-this-one-note-over-and-over-so-you-know-this-is-a-tense-moment thing they do and I cracked up because I could practically see the musicians in my head.

 

When Rupert snarks "It's a boar" my mind immediately went to the movie "A Knight's Tale" and Alan Tudyk giving the line "It's call a lance."

 

When the camera zooms in on the boars my mind hopscotched over to a small independent film called "The Beasts of the Southern Wild."  I had to mentally reel myself in to come back from fantastical South Louisiana to the historical Highlands of Scotland.

 

I had to watch several times and finally resorted to closed captions to figure out Dougal and Jamie say to one another after Jamie rugby-tackles Dougal during the game of shinty.

Dougal:  "Yield!"

Jamie:  "What would you think of me if I did?"

Dougal:  "Not much."

Yeah, those two are related.

 

I've also cooked up a back-story for Mrs. Fitz and her frenemy Iona MacKenzie.  You just know these two knew each other growing up.  I'll bet Mrs. Fitz married first and got a hot guy to boot (which Iona never forgave) but then Mrs. Fitz was widowed and ended up running Castle Leoch for Colum while Iona ended up mistress of her own (albeit small) keep.  In the grand scheme of things, Mrs. Fitz probably wields much more power and is given greater respect, but in the decades-old-rivalry Iona feels the need to lord it over Mrs. Fitz "complimenting" her on how clean the castle is ("Neat as a pin") emphasizing her position as a servant.  That's Mrs. Fitz' cue to throw shade.

Edited September 1, 2014 by WatchrTina

[SonofaBiscuit]

I guess that I should clarify since I've seen multiple posts scoffing at the fact that I referred to Dougal as an older looking gentleman.  I meant no offense to the character (or actor), and as I posted in a previous episode thread, I really like the actor and his portrayal of Dougal.  Realistically, though, Dougal is twice Jamie's age, he's old enough to be Jamie's father, and something tells me that he is well past the average life expectancy for a male born in the mid-1700s.  So, no, I would not call him a young man.  Middle-aged in 2014, yes, but not in the 1700s.

 

 All the credit goes to Graham McTavish, though, because Dougal has done some pretty bad stuff so far, and yet I still manage to like the guy.  He must be doing something right.

[WatchrTina]

As I re-watched episodes 3 and 4 I noticed something interesting with the dynamic duo of Rupert and Angus.  In episode 3 Angus orders Claire around -- even saying once (right after she spots Jamie and Laoghaire snogging) words to the effect of "Very good, you've learned how to obey a man.  Now move."

 

At the beginning of episode 4 he and Rupert ASK Claire to let them go back to the festivities.  And even when Angus is trying to order Claire to not leave the hall during the oath-taking he actually backs down and says something like "Can you not just stay until I find a lass?"  There seems to have been a shift in the balance of power between episodes 3 and 4.  I presume it was Claire working a "miracle" in episode 3 that did the trick.  Mrs. Fitz is now a fast friend and Colum appears to have given Clare permission to go running around outside the castle with the children (including Hamish) so it's seems clear that her status has risen and Rupert & Angus' ability to order her around has diminished.  She's still not supposed to leave the castle unescorted (and I'm convinced that's why Rupert comes looking for her and happens upon Jamie brawling with those 3 clansmen) but it seems clear that she has been promoted further along in the continuum between captive and honored guest.

 

 

Dougal is twice Jamie's age, he's old enough to be Jamie's father, and something tells me that he is well past the average life expectancy for a male born in the mid-1700s.

Graham McTavish is 52/53 if IMBD can be trusted.  We've never heard Dougal's age so in the absence of any information to the contrary I'll assume he's about the same age as the actor playing him or is younger  (Jamie & Claire are being played by actors who are a decade or so older than their characters so it would make sense for them to cast similarly for Dougal to help maintain the illusion of "young Jamie".)  Is late 40s/early 50s that "old" in terms of 1743 Scotland?  I honestly don't know but I suspect that it's not.  Has life expectancy really changed all that much in the last 200 years?  I know infant mortality has gotten much, much better (lower), we've greatly reduced deaths from common childhood illnesses , and risks to women from childbirth are also greatly reduced, but I think I recall hearing that once someone made it to adulthood, the life expectancy of a modern man wasn't all that different from a that of his ancestors.  I can't cite a source for that, however.  But if that is true I'd say Dougal is viewed as being in the prime of his life by his contemporaries in much the same way we think of George Clooney (who is same age as Graham).  Colum, on the other hand, is living on borrowed time due to his illness.

Edited September 2, 2014 by WatchrTina

[mybabyaidan]

Ok, I don't have close captioning, and I can't for the life of me figure out a line.   When Jamie puts on the new shirt for the Gathering, Claire goes:  "I'm sorry, didn't mean for you to have to stand up for me"  and I can't make out what Jamie says.  Anyone know?

[WatchrTina]

The closed captions say "Don't fuss your self on my account" but I'm betting that's wrong and what he really says is "Don't fash yourself on my account."  

 

"Dinna Fash" is one of the Scottish expressions they taught us in the "how to speak Outlander" videos during the run up to the show.  It means don't worry.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Ok, I don't have close captioning, and I can't for the life of me figure out a line.   When Jamie puts on the new shirt for the Gathering, Claire goes:  "I'm sorry, didn't mean for you to have to stand up for me"  and I can't make out what Jamie says.  Anyone know?

 

He says "Don't fuss yourself on my account." (according to closed captioning, anyways)

 

 

Graham McTavish is 52/53 if IMBD can be trusted.  We've never heard Dougal's age so in the absence of any information to the contrary I'll assume he's about the same age as the actor playing him or is younger  (Jamie & Claire are being played by actors who are a decade or so older than their characters so it would make sense for them to cast similarly for Dougal to help maintain the illusion of "young Jamie".)  Is late 40s/early 50s that "old" in terms of 1743 Scotland?  I honestly don't know but I suspect that it's not.  Has life expectancy really changed all that much in the last 200 years? 

 

A quick Google search tells me that the average lifespan in 1800 Scotland was about 40 years old.  So if Dougal is around 50, yeah he's actually quite old for the time period.  Mrs. Fitz looks quite a bit older than Dougal to me, so she was definitely an anomaly for someone at that time, I think. 

Edited September 2, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[nara]

This episode had some great moments, but overall I found it to be the weakest episode so far.

 

Great moments:

• Claire's reconnoitering -- this reminded of Frank's military intelligence experience, though I wish she'd made a reference to it. 
• Claire winning everyone's love:  Hamish (who is adorable and whom I want to see more often) and the other children, Rupert and Angus, Dougal.
• At first, I was annoyed that there was so little Jamie.  However, I realized that they had amped up the sexual tension between Claire and Jamie in episode 3, so it made sense to dial it back in this episode. Otherwise, there is no way they wouldn't be jumping each other's bones
• If Jamie was the focus of episode 3, then Dougal was the focus of episode 4. I'm glad we finally learned why there is tension between Dougal and Jamie and a little more about the different families.  I can't wait to learn more.  I also loved the bonding of Claire and Dougal over the dying man.
• I don't get the impression that Dougal was attacking Claire, but rather, that he is attracted to her.  I think he will try to marry her, which will create further issues with Jamie.  BTW, I think that taking Claire along to collect rents is at least partially an attempt to spend more time with her.
• I loved the Angus/Rupert/Claire humor.  I almost died laughing when Angus gave Claire an unwelcome upkilt view.
• Geillis looked absolutely lovely with this new hairstyle.  I hope they keep it.  I'm also curious to know how she came to be in town "with only her wits".
• Loved the hockey scene.  really defined the Jamie/Dougal relationship

Weak moments:

• Claire and Laoghaire:  I'm not sure I understand why Laoghaire would come to Claire for help.  I got the impression in Episode 3 that Laoghaire realized that Jamie fancies Claire.  Why would she trust Claire to help her?  I didn't care for the Wizard of Oz reference--it felt contrived.  However, I did enjoy the fact that Claire was sabotaging Laoghaire/Jaime without acknowledging that she was doing so.  Jealous much, Claire?  I did get the impression that Laoghaire and Jamie continued to have a physical relationship, even though he was not emotionally invested, and that bothered me a little.  I hope I was mistaken, because in Episode 3, I thought Jamie was done with her.
• Attack on Claire:  I thought that it should have gone on a little longer.  I wasn't yet afraid for her--and then Dougal stepped in.  If it had gone on a little longer, I would have felt more danger.

Edited September 2, 2014 by nara

[Athena]

A quick Google search tells me that the average lifespan in 1800 Scotland was about 40 years old.  So if Dougal is around 50, yeah he's actually quite old for the time period.  Mrs. Fitz looks quite a bit older than Dougal to me, so she was definitely an anomaly for someone at that time, I think. 

 

People also looked older than they were back then. Life was rougher and public health isn't what it is now. Claire could pass herself as years younger than her actual age due to her lovely skin as Mrs Fitz said. A lot of people made it through childhood because they fought all those diseases including smallpox which did leave scarring. 

 

It's the same now in certain developing countries. People look much older than they are relative to someone in the developed world. 

[Faux Pas]

Regarding Murtagh and Jamie, I noticed at the end of the field hockey match when they're walking off the field together, they're wearing the exact same plaid. I think that means they're the of same clan because they have the same tartan?

Edited September 2, 2014 by Faux Pas

[BizBuzz]

I hope this is considered on topic, but the whole life expectancy thing is being considered misinformation more and more these days.  Consider this article here.

[Pestilentia]

My objection to phrases like "For an older looking gentleman, he sure has a lot of spunk," have nothing to do with whether or not he is older or how old he is relative to norms for that period- it is simply that the qualifier "older" is not needed and feels somewhat ageist.

Yeah, it's a young person's culture nowadays and how dare older folk act like normal people or be considered attractive.

Like saying "She's nice looking for an older lady" when "She's nice looking" would do just as well.

[lucindabelle]

Thanks for the post on Gabe. Nobody who's read any literature ore history of the period or even listened to ballads knows that for heavens sake lots of people lived on to real old age, 80s or 90s. Fifty was never considered old, average takes into account infant mortality. And agree that "for an old person". Is condescending.

I'm liking techs show on the whole but find it slow moving and the "I can't wait to escape" trope tedious. Look there's 10 episodes so it's pretty obvious she's not going to escape! It's like the main character is praying for the show to end. And she doesn't even know if the standing stone ing will work. If it did, it's likely to only work on certain days anyway. That aspect feels like a dumb plot js contrivance.

[attica]

the average lifespan in 1800 Scotland was about 40 years

 

That's misleading, though. If half of the population dies in infancy, and half live to be 80, well, that's a 40 year average. The point is that if you managed to survive birth and childhood, you'd have a good enough chance to live out your three score and ten. Provided you don't get gored by a boar or have a run-in with Black Jack, of course.

[Nidratime]

What I'm really curious about is the very ending of the episode where we see Dougal tell Claire that he wants to bring her along on this rent collecting trip because they might end up needing a healer. (I guess they don't expect that the Castle will need a healer during that time?) But, more curious, we see the band of merry men leaving and they include Jamie who is supposedly hiding out at Castle Leoch because he's a wanted man -- someone who we all thought shouldn't chance running into the British! Now, why in the world would they want Jamie to come along under those circumstances? Is Dougal operating on the old dictum, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer," seeing as he looks on Jamie as a potential rival? But why would Colum or, of all people, Jamie agree? (Unless, of course, Jamie agrees because Claire is going ... and *now* I can see why Dougal might want Claire to come in the first place!)

[SonofaBiscuit]

Wow, ageism...that's a bit harsh.  Sorry to offend anyone with my previous comments.  Even when posts royally piss me off, I really try to take the time to craft a reply that won't tick people off or alienate them, so that kind of hurts a little.  Anyways, I won't go on about this anymore because I don't want to entirely derail the thread...I know how frustrating that can be.  This is a wonderful show and I look forward to passively reading comments in the future.  I've read some very entertaining and insightful comments here! 

[absnow54]

What I'm really curious about is the very ending of the episode where we see Dougal tell Claire that he wants to bring her along on this rent collecting trip because they might end up needing a healer. (I guess they don't expect that the Castle will need a healer during that time?) But, more curious, we see the band of merry men leaving and they include Jamie who is supposedly hiding out at Castle Leoch because he's a wanted man -- someone who we all thought shouldn't chance running into the British! Now, why in the world would they want Jamie to come along under those circumstances?

You make a good point. I wish they had a scene explaining why Jamie was coming along, when they made a point not 30 minutes earlier to explain why it was so dangerous for him to leave the castle. Like Jamie must never leave the castle! ... Unless property taxes are involved.

[BizBuzz]

Wow, ageism...that's a bit harsh.  Sorry to offend anyone with my previous comments.  Even when posts royally piss me off, I really try to take the time to craft a reply that won't tick people off or alienate them, so that kind of hurts a little.  Anyways, I won't go on about this anymore because I don't want to entirely derail the thread...I know how frustrating that can be.  This is a wonderful show and I look forward to passively reading comments in the future.  I've read some very entertaining and insightful comments here! 

 

I really hope you don't stop posting.  I have enjoyed your thought process in Outlander. 

 

Back to topic, you know, I didn't think about Jamie going back on the road and it being dangerous for him, so yeah, what was that about?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I didn't think about Jamie going back on the road and it being dangerous for him, so yeah, what was that about?

 

Unless I missed something, aren't they just going to be on MacKenzie lands, collecting, well, you know, rent, so it might okay for Jamie to join? It's just being exposed beyond MacKenzie lands that's the danger, no?

 

Then again, I'm wondering why there needs to be an entourage to collect rent from the tenants.