S07.E01: A Life Well Lost

[Athena]

Quote

Jamie races toward Wilmington to rescue Claire from the gallows, only to discover that the American Revolution has reached North Carolina.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This may include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[SassAndSnacks]

People!  We're back!  

I'm an optimistic person, but I had the bar set pretty low for this episode.  This was a solid start to the season.  

Good Stuff - 

- Condensing the whole jail plotline, which runs for-ev-ver in the Buik.  And no random birthings, which is a bonus.  

- The ship scenes in the fog were gorgeous, which added to the overall mystery and tension of who was coming and going.  What is happening?  Are the rebels coming? How will Claire get off of the ship?

- Oh, there you are Donald, son of Donald.  Ya wee shite.  Shut your freaking gob!  Truly though, I like how (with limited exceptions) the story doesn't forget anything.  MacDonald stuck his neck out for Jamie, brought him weapons, vouched for him as the Indian Agent, and then Jamie does the bait and switch.  I'm happy he did because well, American here and that's my team, but MacDonald has every right to be a little pissy.

- "This is not permitted!"  Outlander humor just hits differently, ye ken?

- Rik Rankin with his own hair.  <chef's kiss>

GREAT STUFF - 

- TOM CHRISTIE!!!!!  Absolutely choked up during his monologue to Claire, and I wasn't expecting that.  I remember reading this part in the buik and kinda being like "Ok, let's move on."  But I was captivated here.  His scenes with both Claire and Jamie were so so good.  His speech to Jamie about not having a name of substance, no clan, nothing to give but he could do this thing was wonderful.  Sometimes, the show takes a meh character and makes them so substantial and meaningful (see Murtaugh, Marsali, Rupert, Angus et al)

- Nobody puts Jamie in a corner, but damn, he should go sit in a corner more often.  JAMMF is back, JHRC!!!!!!  "I'm also a violent man."  "Any goodness in me is due to my wife." Fuck the Browns!  Will this serve as a replacement for when Jamie hunts down Claire's actual assaulter in the buik, since they unnecessarily changed that story?  The intensity in Sam's face was something we haven't seen in a long time.  Welcome back to the party, Heughan!  And not to quote Taylor Swift - "Oh, damn, never seen that color blue."  I'm guessing the black jacket really set off those eyes.  

Blah Stuff - 

- The song.  I can't.  I watched with my earbuds in, and I winced at points.  It was actually painful to hear, and she sounded like she was in pain singing it.  You know in the buiks after Roger is hung, his voice is described as the ripping of paper when he sings.  This was like that but worse.  I'll be hitting "Skip Intro" for the rest of the season.

- Ok, the whole time traveler thing was comical but not in a good way.  "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee." "Ali!!" This was like when random alumni from my university see each other and yell "We Are!" and then respond "Penn State!" and suddenly we are best friends swapping stories about Cafe 210 or football games.  You know, the good ole days.  Neither Roger nor Wendigo hesitates for a moment to try to feel out the situation - they just dive right in and it felt odd to me.  Aren't these supposed to be somewhat guarded conversations?  Which kinda brings me to my next few points...

- Wendigo.  We need him to blow up the Big House, I know.  But everything with Bree and Roger revolved around him in this episode and it felt like a bunch of exposition that was pointless.  Or maybe I just don't like Bree and Roger. (Especially since the show does Roger no favors.)  The dialogue through all of these scenes felt poorly done and the plotline very thin.  Can we just skip this and focus on J&C? 

- Rumors.  Everyone has seemingly heard about the murderess except for Bree and Rog?  Some of the most gossipy people I know are the old ladies in church.  

- The wigs.  FFS.  Sophie's was horrific and pasted to her head.  It looked like something from a summer camp play.  And Cait's...I get it...she's jailed and disheveled.  But if we can have Sam looking hotter this season, I need some hot Cait too.  I am equal opportunity shallow.  

- We need more of Ian killing people.  There, I said it.  

 

Other Thoughts - 

"Any goodness I have in my is due to my wife." Is that true?  Jamie was living basically as a vagabond before Claire slipped through the stones.  She gave him stability, love, belief.  But a lot of the double-dealing, lying, scheming, and killing came into his life because she did too.  Or would he have still gone down that path or worse had she never been there.  If she hadn't come back after being gone for 20 years, would he have continued smuggling and lying?  Would he have been doing that in the first place if she had never been there?

I'm so happy we're back, and I can't wait for next week!

[cardigirl]

21 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

 

GREAT STUFF - 

- TOM CHRISTIE!!!!!  Absolutely choked up during his monologue to Claire, and I wasn't expecting that.  I remember reading this part in the buik and kinda being like "Ok, let's move on."  But I was captivated here.  His scenes with both Claire and Jamie were so so good.  His speech to Jamie about not having a name of substance, no clan, nothing to give but he could do this thing was wonderful.  Sometimes, the show takes a meh character and makes them so substantial and meaningful (see Murtaugh, Marsali, Rupert, Angus et al)

- Nobody puts Jamie in a corner, but damn, he should go sit in a corner more often.  JAMMF is back, JHRC!!!!!!  "I'm also a violent man."  "Any goodness in me is due to my wife." Fuck the Browns!  Will this serve as a replacement for when Jamie hunts down Claire's actual assaulter in the buik, since they unnecessarily changed that story?  The intensity in Sam's face was something we haven't seen in a long time.  Welcome back to the party, Heughan!  And not to quote Taylor Swift - "Oh, damn, never seen that color blue."  I'm guessing the black jacket really set off those eyes.  

 

- We need more of Ian killing people.  There, I said it.  

 

 

Sam was really great throughout, but especially in that final scene.  🥰

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

"Any goodness I have in my is due to my wife." Is that true?  Jamie was living basically as a vagabond before Claire slipped through the stones.  She gave him stability, love, belief.  But a lot of the double-dealing, lying, scheming, and killing came into his life because she did too.  Or would he have still gone down that path or worse had she never been there.  If she hadn't come back after being gone for 20 years, would he have continued smuggling and lying?  Would he have been doing that in the first place if she had never been there?

Haven't watched yet--will do so tonight. I got me the STARZ promo price for six months. Anyhoo, Wull ha' me popcorn and wine, as I sit and drool and swoon watch the premiere.

As for your questions/thoughts? I think it was told that had Claire not shown up, Jamie would have died that day with his dislocated shoulder, or other some such. Had she not returned, Aye, I believe he'd have continued being "treasonous" with his printing and smuggling.

But wot I want tae ken is did the show reveal Malva's real killer? Or not?

Edited June 16, 2023 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

UGH. The new opening is HORRID. Wish they’d just use the one from the first season.

Someone-please- @WatchrTina-maybe-refresh my memory! I could have sworn Allan was the murderer! I don’t recall Tom taking the blame. Is this a show change?!

The episode could have been sae mooch better had we had more scenes with Jamie and Claire instead of boring ASS Bree and Roger.

And just where was ROLLO??!!

[SassAndSnacks]

19 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

could have sworn Allan was the murderer! I don’t recall Tom taking the blame. Is this a show change?!

He is. Tom suspects this but he confessed to clear Claire.

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

He is. Tom suspects this but he confessed to clear Claire.

In the buik too? Because I ken he did it in Show to clear Claire.

[Cdh20]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

In the buik too? Because I ken he did it in Show to clear Claire.

Yes, in the book! 

[nodorothyparker]

Well done well enough for what feels like such a slog in the books. As much as I generally don't care for the interminable Christies, Tom Christie is one of Gabaldon's best drawn secondary characters in showing what a lifetime of hardline religion and loss and lack of love can warp a person into. I really bought what the actor was selling in making this "sacrifice" for Claire, which is pretty much lifted straight off the page. Mark Lewis Jones gave it the full gravitas it needed. I liked Jamie basically eulogizing him to him to show the certain begrudging respect they have for each other once he accepted that someone else for once was going to get to make the big gesture. 

The scenes of the comings and goings to the ship in the fog were gorgeous. The shallow part of me also thinks the shorter hair really works for Claire. It actually added to her out of her own time aura a bit and the actress was just luminous in a couple of shots after seasons of looking like hair and makeup couldn't figure out how to do aging on her beyond making her look washed out.

Such a terrific portrayal of Tom Christie still makes me wish the show hadn't cast an actor of such similar appearance to be Richard Brown because looking away for even a second could have you wondering why Jamie is lurking in Tom's room after that sendoff. IIRC, Richard Brown sort of just drifts off the page after this story wraps up and we lose sight of him in the mad rush to the big house fire and traipsing off to Scotland and war, etc. Jamie's deadly quiet "I'm also a violent man" anger was very well done even if part of me was thinking you guys just narrowly wrapped up one drawn out murder charge. You don't think anybody's going to notice if the whole group that dragged you off to trial, including the rather prominent local citizen at the head of it, is just never heard from again or turns up dead? I guess we're counting on the chaos of the impending revolution for no one to think that through too deeply.

Roger was working my last nerve here, but you could see that Wendigo's "I just want to go home" was really resonating with him. The Muhammad Ali reference made me laugh. I'm still wondering knowing that we only have this full season and the next to wrap the entire story up if the show is going to attempt the full Mackenzies going forward then back then sideways then a smaller bit of forward in time story, which isn't nearly as interesting as it feels like it should be and an easy skipover on rereads.

[Moxie Cat]

21 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

'm still wondering knowing that we only have this full season and the next to wrap the entire story up if the show is going to attempt the full Mackenzies going forward then back then sideways then a smaller bit of forward in time story

This current season (16 eps, 8 shown now) was filmed with the idea that episode 16 would be the series finale. From what I understand, it was designed to end with the "natural ending point during the book series, and any book reader would understand what that is" (per a recent interview in EW). But halfway through filming this season, they were renewed for one more and then had to figure out what content to put into the surprise season. So take from that what you will. I would imagine the final season will function more as a coda and minimize the plot threads from the later books.

21 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Such a terrific portrayal of Tom Christie still makes me wish the show hadn't cast an actor of such similar appearance to be Richard Brown because looking away for even a second could have you wondering why Jamie is lurking in Tom's room after that sendoff.

 LOL...I also thought it was Tom! And then I said, "Oh God, the Browns have got to go already." BAMF Jamie!

Tom/MLJ's final speech to Claire was wonderful. I hated the Christies and how the entire last season revolved around them, but MLJ made the character truly nuanced and memorable. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Moxie Cat

[nodorothyparker]

14 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

This current season (16 eps, 8 shown now) was filmed with the idea that episode 16 would be the series finale. From what I understand, it was designed to end with the "natural ending point during the book series, and any book reader would understand what that is" (per a recent interview in EW). But halfway through filming this season, they were renewed for one more and then had to figure out what content to put into the surprise season. So take from that what you will. I would imagine the final season will function more as a coda and minimize the plot threads from the later books.

Ooof. That sounds like it could end up like the final season of Poldark, which ran out of main story book material at the end of season 4 that doesn't involve a big generational jump to the second half of the book series but then the show got a season 5 and didn't want to suddenly focus on a bunch of aged up characters instead of the characters we'd been watching for four seasons. It was, to be put it charitably, an uneven mess of rehashed endings for characters and new stories shoehorned in about minor or new characters we had no reason to care about coming in so late.

Not to get too bookish, but I did see an interview where Gabaldon said book 10 will be the last book in this main series. I didn't hate book 9 the way some people seem to but there was a lot of "and then this happened" filler and circling back around what would have been thought to be concluded stories about often minor characters in there.

[SassAndSnacks]

21 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

That sounds like it could end up like the final season of Poldark

Ugh. It was unwatchable. Really hoping things don’t end up like that.

22 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I didn't hate book 9 the way some people seem to but there was a lot of "and then this happened" filler and circling back around what would have been thought to be concluded stories about often minor characters in there.

I feel like she got a deal for a certain amount of books and was just biding her time for Book 10. Filler and rehashed storylines. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Ooof. That sounds like it could end up like the final season of Poldark,

I posted in the buik talk/spoiler speculation that an article on my FB feed said this season would cover

buiks 6-8 and the final would be buik 9

 No way Gabaldon will finish 10 by the last season. I have always wanted the last season to be buik 8.

But back to the episode. I just loooooove me some intense and quietly menacing Jamie. Loved the ending. And I love that Sam knows this character so well and continues to demonstrate Jamie’s physical “ticks” if you will. When he and Claire were in bed, Jamie was tapping his finger repeatedly-something he’s done over the years. Those small things just make me giggle.

[Eureka]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I posted in the buik talk/spoiler speculation that an article on my FB feed said this season would cover

  Reveal spoiler

buiks 6-8 and the final would be buik 9

 No way Gabaldon will finish 10 by the last season. I have always wanted the last season to be buik 8.

But back to the episode. I just loooooove me some intense and quietly menacing Jamie. Loved the ending. And I love that Sam knows this character so well and continues to demonstrate Jamie’s physical “ticks” if you will. When he and Claire were in bed, Jamie was tapping his finger repeatedly-something he’s done over the years. Those small things just make me giggle.

I noticed that too about the finger tapping. Great continuity over the seasons.

[goldilocks]

On 6/16/2023 at 10:26 AM, SassAndSnacks said:

The wigs.  FFS.  Sophie's was horrific and pasted to her head.  It looked like something from a summer camp play. 

I was more put off by the eyebrows. Can’t they dye them red? Or brush on some reddish makeup? Or paste on red fox fur? Something! No true redhead has black eyebrows. 

[Quickbeam]

Sophie ruins every scene she is in. I don’t blame the wigs. 

[andidante]

Just like with the books, I could not care less what happens with Bry and Roger! I know they are two main characters, but I zone out during their scenes most of the time.

[FnkyChkn34]

On 6/17/2023 at 9:46 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Such a terrific portrayal of Tom Christie still makes me wish the show hadn't cast an actor of such similar appearance to be Richard Brown because looking away for even a second could have you wondering why Jamie is lurking in Tom's room after that sendoff.

Phew, I'm glad that I wasn't the only one!  I was so confused for longer than I'd care to admit...

I also am not nearly as invested in this show as I was in the first few seasons, so I actually forgot how last season ended.  I couldn't finish Book 5, and unfortunately the show hasn't been much better, IMO.  I still watch it - I guess just because why not? - but I have more complaints than praises lately.  

I share the complaints about too much Bree and Roger (and not enough Rollo!).  I also have no idea why no one is at Fraser's Ridge?  I can figure out Claire and Jamie, sure, but Bree and Roger are just wandering about, "ministering" to people?  It's not that believable...

[Scarlett45]

On 6/16/2023 at 9:26 AM, SassAndSnacks said:

TOM CHRISTIE!!!!!  Absolutely choked up during his monologue to Claire, and I wasn't expecting that.  I remember reading this part in the buik and kinda being like "Ok, let's move on."  But I was captivated here.  His scenes with both Claire and Jamie were so so good.  His speech to Jamie about not having a name of substance, no clan, nothing to give but he could do this thing was wonderful.  Sometimes, the show takes a meh character and makes them so substantial and meaningful (see Murtaugh, Marsali, Rupert, Angus et al)

I don’t believe Tom killed Malva- he was a POS who beat her, but murdering a pregnant woman seems too low even for him. So who’s he covering for?

 

2 hours ago, andidante said:

Just like with the books, I could not care less what happens with Bry and Roger! I know they are two main characters, but I zone out during their scenes most of the time.

I find Roger more compelling than Bree, probably because Richard Rankin is a better actor. 

 

On 6/17/2023 at 6:39 PM, goldilocks said:

I was more put off by the eyebrows. Can’t they dye them red? Or brush on some reddish makeup? Or paste on red fox fur? Something! No true redhead has black eyebrows. 

I thought I was super shallow being distracted by that. 

On 6/16/2023 at 8:57 PM, SassAndSnacks said:

He is. Tom suspects this but he confessed to clear Claire.

Oh thank you!

[Haleth]

The scenes with Tom and Claire and Jamie were wonderful.  Last season Tom was abhorred by everyone but the actor finally made him sympathetic.  Yeah, as I recall it was Allen who killed his sister.  (I don't remember what happened to Allen, where is he?)

Bree continues to be annoying and Sophie is terrible.  Rik Rankin is a better actor but Sophie drags him down.

There is an awful lot of book plot to get through in the remaining 2 seasons.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Haleth

[Scarlett45]

39 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, as I recall it was Allen who killed his sister.  (I don't remember what happened to Allen, where is he?)

He’s still at Fraser’s Ridge. 

[aemom]

When Bree was sitting on the beach and Roger came over to talk to her - you can see how bad Sophie Skelton really is.

There is just no subtlety, no inflection, no nothing in her performance.  She just recites her lines like a wooden doll.  Everyone else on the show is just so good, that it really magnifies her shortcomings.

Edited June 19, 2023 by aemom
Typo

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, aemom said:

When Bree was sitting on the beach and Roger come over to talk to her - you can see how bad Sophie Skelton really is.

There is just no subtlety, no inflection, no nothing in her performance.  She just recites her lines like a wooden doll.  Everyone else on the show is just so good, that it really magnifies her shortcomings.

Why was she cast? I mean she’s a nice looking young woman, but she’s not so stunningly beautiful that she got the part because of that. She still comes off as so petulant, which I forgave in season 2 when she just lost her Dad, but now it’s ridiculous. 

[iMonrey]

22 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I also have no idea why no one is at Fraser's Ridge?  I can figure out Claire and Jamie, sure, but Bree and Roger are just wandering about, "ministering" to people?  It's not that believable...

Are Lizzie and the twins still there? Or did they move away too? I can't remember where we wound up with them, aside from Lizzie being married to both.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 6/18/2023 at 7:18 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

but Bree and Roger are just wandering about, "ministering" to people?  It's not that believable...

Roger is in training to be an ordained minister. He can't get that certification at Fraser's Ridge. He's studying with the reverend and other pupils we saw, and Bree is hanging out with their wives.

On 6/19/2023 at 6:02 PM, iMonrey said:

Are Lizzie and the twins still there? Or did they move away too? I can't remember where we wound up with them, aside from Lizzie being married to both.

They're still there.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Noneofyourbusiness

[FnkyChkn34]

22 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Roger is in training to be an ordained minister. He can't get that certification at Fraser's Ridge. He's studying with the reverend and other pupils we saw, and Bree is hanging out with their wives.

Where is their son?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

11 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Where is their son?

With them. He's the blond boy we saw playing with the other boy on the beach while Bree and Roger watched.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Noneofyourbusiness