Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Demented Daisy]

It was used in the #Thinman episode of Supernatural:

 

Harry: I just got punched right in the feels.

 

[Demented Daisy]

Also, "throwing shade" didn't start with the younger crowd, it's an expression that has been around since the 80's, at least.  From the 1990 documentary Paris is Burning (NSFW due to naughty language):

 

[Sandman87]

The local news strikes again: "The fire is completely contained, but the fire chief says we're not out of the clear yet." The reporter on the scene also gets lots of bonus points for spending about 3 minutes talking without using any active verbs. "No flames can be seen from where I have been positioned."

[Kromm]

I'm sure I must have mentioned somewhere in this big thread how much "casted" bugs me. But I just saw it again and got frustrated.

 

It apparently was actually the proper way to say this.... back in the 14th century. Since then?  Not so much.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Kromm

[backformore]

So do expressions like "in the feels"  originate from TV shows, or do TV shows just copy what's out there?   

Because I keep hearing stuff from co-workers that they MUST get from somewhere!  

 

The two biggies are "feels"  as a noun, replacing feelings or emotions -  as in " I'm having all sorts of feels today" 

and using "whenever"  instead of "when".   Someone at work used this one three separate times in one meeting.  

[Sandman87]

"Having all sorts of feels" sounds like "being groped a lot."

From the BBC news yesterday regarding that big explosion in China: "Residents living nearby were literally awakened by the explosions." What a surprise; a series of explosions that leveled half of a square kilometer of waterfront managed to wake someone up!

[legaleagle53]

From the BBC news yesterday regarding that big explosion in China: "Residents living nearby were literally awakened by the explosions." What a surprise; a series of explosions that leveled half of a square kilometer of waterfront managed to wake someone up!

 

At least the reporter used the word correctly.  After all, that is the primary meaning of the word, which is "adhering to fact or to the ordinary construction or primary meaning of a term or expression" or "free from exaggeration or embellishment."  Its new secondary meaning of "figuratively" or "virtually" makes no sense in this particular context, since the explosions didn't figuratively wake the neighboring residents up -- it really did wake them up!

Edited August 14, 2015 by legaleagle53

[Kromm]

I agree. It may be a DUMB use of the word, but it's actually a CORRECT one.

[Sandman87]

We've literally been posting examples of use of "literally" when there's literally zero chance that anyone would think that it's not literal since the thread's beginning. Literally.

[DangerousMinds]

If one has feelINGS, why not name them? It just seems lazy not to be more specific. Happy, sad, bored???

[topanga]

I don't know if this is grammatically incorrect or just an annoying pet peeve. I live near Philadelphia, and people there have the strangest way of telling a story. it goes something like this:

 

Philly friend: "I'm not sure I want to accept the job since it's not in my field. HOWEVER, [long, dramatic pause], the pay is really good."

 

I know we should try to avoid starting sentences with "However" in writing. In conversational speech, the rules are looser. But that dramatic pause bothers me so much. Just say what you friggin want to say. No long pauses. What do you think you're doing, performing Shakespeare?

[Sandman87]

From the BBC World News - "Authorities have ruled out the fact that Muslim extremists were the attackers." How does one rule out a fact? Do these authorities have super-human reality warping powers?

I love it when government employees try to use big words. From an interview with a local police officer- "We think that violent shaking may have attributed to the child's death." I always thought the cause and effect there went in the other direction.

Not a TV example, but worth mentioning: A radio ad campaign for local website says that they make apartment hunting "more funner." Apparently enough people have complained about it that one of their commercials says basically "If you don't like our grammar, tough luck."

[Sandman87]

Both of the evening news programs on our local PBS station (BBC World News and PBS Newshour) have taken to mispronouncing the Spanish word junta as "jun-ta" rather than "hoon-ta" in the last two days.

[Rick Kitchen]

Both of the evening news programs on our local PBS station (BBC World News and PBS Newshour) have taken to mispronouncing the Spanish word junta as "jun-ta" rather than "hoon-ta" in the last two days.

 

From dictionary.com:

 

 

 

 

When the word junta was borrowed into English from Spanish in the early 17th century, its pronunciation was thoroughly Anglicized to

[juhn-tuh] (Show IPA). The 20th century has seen the emergence and, especially in North America, the gradual predominance of the pronunciation

[hoo n-tuh] derived from Spanish

[hoon-tah] through reassociation with the word's Spanish origins. A hybrid form

[huhn-tuh] is also heard.

 

 

[shapeshifter]

Listening to NPR while exercising, specifically, the show "Q," suddenly I hear in the midst of a description of a Banksy exhibition: "Large scale art works by he."

I said aloud, "Him," and then came here to share.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Listening to NPR while exercising, specifically, the show "Q," suddenly I hear in the midst of a description of a Banksy exhibition: "Large scale art works by he."

I said aloud, "Him," and then came here to share.

 

By he? He?!?!

[shapeshifter]

By he? He?!?!

It might have been: "Large scale art works by he and [others]..." but doesn't Banksy work alone?

[Quof]

But it would still be " him and others"

[shapeshifter]

But it would still be " him and others"

Yes, of course.

[Sandman87]

The local news described the former quarterback of a high school football team as "the graduated former quarterback." Is he a measuring cup? A tax rate? Does he steadily become larger in some direction?

[shapeshifter]

The local news described the former quarterback of a high school football team as "the graduated former quarterback." Is he a measuring cup? A tax rate? Does he steadily become larger in some direction?

Oh, Sandman87, yours are always so much funnier than mine.

[legaleagle53]

The local news described the former quarterback of a high school football team as "the graduated former quarterback." Is he a measuring cup? A tax rate? Does he steadily become larger in some direction?

 

The odd part is that the use of the past participle in a passive sense is technically correct.  "Graduate" is, strictly speaking, an intransitive verb that is properly used only in the passive voice:  "I was graduated from high school in May 1979."  I'm not sure when it started being used as an active intransitive verb ("I graduated from high school in May 1979."), but the older usage is still what strict grammarians will insist upon, so although its use as a passive participle sounds a tad strange to the modern ear, it's not really incorrect.

Edited August 30, 2015 by legaleagle53

[ABay]

It's the missing "from" in current usage that drives me batty. It's graduated FROM high school. Why did people start losing the FROM? And why are we now changing UP things instead of just changing them? How do these things creep into widespread usage? And why does no one ever talk about it?

[legaleagle53]

But "the graduated FROM former quarterback" makes no sense.  You aren't graduated from people. You are graduated from educational institutions, be they kindergarten or Harvard Law School.

 

Incidentally, I just realized why the verb is only supposed to be used in the passive voice.  One meaning of "graduate" is "to confer a degree upon someone or something" because the word comes from the Latin for "degree."  Thus, we say "He was graduated from Stanford University" because it means "He was given a degree by Stanford University."  So "the graduated former quarterback" simply means "the quarterback upon whom a degree was previously conferred."

 

I'm beginning to see why language changes the way it does.  People prefer simple constructions over complex ones. It's why English no longer has a case system, with the exception of personal pronouns (which is itself slowly descending into anarchy) and has all but eliminated the Subjunctive in common usage.

[ABay]

Oops. I wasn't reacting to "the graduated quarterback"  but to the general usage I hear a lot: "graduated high school", without the from where it used to be, and as it is in your paragraph about passive voice. Sorry about the confusion!

Edited August 30, 2015 by ABay

[supposebly]

Language changes, it's normal. Otherwise, we would still be talking Old English like Chaucer. It's perfectly normal. People start talking about it if a change passes them by. But if you are the generation that started the change or at least the generation that perpetuates it, you wouldn't notice. Until it's your turn to wonder why the younger generation does things oh so slightly differently.

 

Only dead languages that aren't acquired as mother tongues don't change anymore.

 

The "simplifying" tendency of English is mostly a thing of Indo-European languages. The reason English is much more advanced in that development is because its final syllables have been eroding since the great Vowel Shift. Since declension endings are final syllables, they started to disappear.

 

Languages also change under the influence of other languages. English as THE world language has influenced the change of other languages in a way that is comparable only to the Latin influence in Europe. Only, it's much more prevalent.

 

Language change is nothing to worry about. It's when it doesn't change, one should start worrying.

Edited August 30, 2015 by supposebly

[Quof]

While ABay decries the missing preposition, I am tired of the redundant ones.

 

Where are you at?

Where are you going to? 

 

I like to be concise in my speech.

[ABay]

ITA, which is why changing up something annoys me.

[legaleagle53]

Language changes, it's normal. Otherwise, we would still be talking Old English like Chaucer. It's perfectly normal. 

 

Actually, the English of Chaucer's time (early/mid-1300s) was Middle English.  Old English was spoken between A.D. 800 and A.D 1100, approximately.  Beowulf was written in Old English, as were the Domesday Book and The Dream of the Rood.

 

Aside from that, point taken.  It makes me wonder what the English of 3015 is going to be like.

[Ohwell]

Language changes, it's normal. Otherwise, we would still be talking Old English like Chaucer. It's perfectly normal. People start talking about it if a change passes them by. But if you are the generation that started the change or at least the generation that perpetuates it, you wouldn't notice. Until it's your turn to wonder why the younger generation does things oh so slightly differently.

Yes, language does change over time, but there are still standards of usage in place.  Otherwise, there would be no use for English teachers, for example.

[supposebly]

 

Yes, language does change over time, but there are still standards of usage in place.  Otherwise, there would be no use for English teachers, for example.

True, but what I mean is, when language changes, standards of usage change too.

 

 

Actually, the English of Chaucer's time (early/mid-1300s) was Middle English.  Old English was spoken between A.D. 800 and A.D 1100, approximately.  Beowulf was written in Old English, as were the Domesday Book and The Dream of the Rood.

Oops! My apologies.

[ABay]

The local news just ran a story with the chyron "Referee says he did not use racial sluts before being tackled."

[Sandman87]

Where would we be without the local news? Yesterday one newscaster tried to refer to the Public Utilities Division when she said "...power lines in the city are maintained by the pud." I always figured that our city hall officials were a bunch of dicks, and now I have proof.

Also yesterday, we were informed that the current queen of England is now officially "the longest running monarch. " Not reigning, running, as if she were a Broadway play.

[Joe]

To be fair, has anyone measured her stride? She might get along at quite a pace.

[shapeshifter]

It makes me wonder what the English of 3015 is going to be like.

Wouldn't Yoda want to know.

Sorry. Bad pun. But it's in honor of my elderly Punster Supreme father, who may not make another.

Where would we be without the local news? Yesterday one newscaster tried to refer to the Public Utilities Division when she said "...power lines in the city are maintained by the pud." I always figured that our city hall officials were a bunch of dicks, and now I have proof.

Also yesterday, we were informed that the current queen of England is now officially "the longest running monarch. " Not reigning, running, as if she were a Broadway play.

Thank you, as always, for the chuckle. Edited September 11, 2015 by shapeshifter

[ShellSeeker]

In Colorado, since marijuana is now legal, we're hearing more and more local news anchors using "stoned" when reporting any story relating to marijuana. Stoned? Really? I suppose we should just be thankful they're not using the word "baked."

[AuntiePam]

Not grammar, but did anyone catch Rick Perry's latest?  When asked how he felt about Donald Trump's negative remarks, he said "Even a broken clock is right once a day." 

 

Double fail -- he's saying Trump was right, and he got the idiom wrong. 

 

This election year can't be over fast enough. 

[Ohwell]

In Colorado, since marijuana is now legal, we're hearing more and more local news anchors using "stoned" when reporting any story relating to marijuana. Stoned? Really? I suppose we should just be thankful they're not using the word "baked."

I don't see the issue with using "stoned" because I've been hearing that since, well, at least the 60s (I'm old.)  That's what we called people who got high off weed.  We also called them "stoners."

[CoderLady]

Not grammar, but did anyone catch Rick Perry's latest?  When asked how he felt about Donald Trump's negative remarks, he said "Even a broken clock is right once a day." 

 

Double fail -- he's saying Trump was right, and he got the idiom wrong. 

 

This election year can't be over fast enough. 

 

I can't even make that one make sense with a 24-hour digital clock because the darn thing wouldn't work at all. It would need power to display that wrong time. Overthinking again.

[Kromm]

In Colorado, since marijuana is now legal, we're hearing more and more local news anchors using "stoned" when reporting any story relating to marijuana. Stoned? Really? I suppose we should just be thankful they're not using the word "baked."

Are you questioning Bob Dylan's authority of this?

 

 

(or actually, allegedly Dylan heard the term used first in a Ray Charles song, "Let's Go Get Stoned", even before he used it in "Rainy Day Women ♯12 & 35"--so you've got Ray to deal with too, as well as that song's writers, Ashford & Simpson)

Edited September 13, 2015 by Kromm

[ShellSeeker]

I have no objection to the word "stoned," I just find it incongruous to hear news anchors use that word with a completely straight face in the same tone they use to talk about murder trials and gang shootings. It's just so unexpected.

[shapeshifter]

In Colorado, since marijuana is now legal, we're hearing more and more local news anchors using "stoned" when reporting any story relating to marijuana. Stoned? Really? I suppose we should just be thankful they're not using the word "baked."

I don't see the issue with using "stoned" because I've been hearing that since, well, at least the 60s (I'm old.)  That's what we called people who got high off weed.  We also called them "stoners."

Well, we also used "straight" to indicate someone was not "stoned" or "high," and "straight" now has a completely different connotation. Also, in a world where news is likely to get interpreted into a myriad of languages, as well as read by people whose first language might be from anywhere else in the world, news reporters should probably try to choose words that are not likely to be misunderstood. But if, as Queasy-bo has noticed, "stoned" is what the reporters are using, and if it is what they are using outside of Colorado as well, then that will become the term of choice.

[ShellSeeker]

Maybe my problem is that I am not accustomed to hearing the word "stoned" without being accompanied by the word "dude." Heh.

[shapeshifter]

Maybe my problem is that I am not accustomed to hearing the word "stoned" without being accompanied by the word "dude." Heh.

And like you mentioned above, we can be glad they aren't using "baked."

I'm guessing they don't use "high" because it might imply that the reporter has made a value judgement about recreational THC intoxication being a positive thing (since the opposite of "high" is "low"), and reporters are not supposed to tip their hands regarding personal beliefs (one of my daughters was a news reporter for 10 years).

Also, for reasons of column inches in print, space available "above the fold" on the web (without having to scroll), and time for audio and video media, the single-syllable "stoned" is shorter than the 5-syllable "intoxicated" or the 6-syllable phrase "under the influence," both of which could be confused with being drunk.

[ToxicUnicorn]

Heard yesterday on the news ...

 

"... raising deep questions about race in America."

 

???  Are there any other kinds of questions about race?

[friendperidot]

Dear Payless Shoe Source: "bogo" is not a word, it is an acronym.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Dear Payless Shoe Source: "bogo" is not a word, it is an acronym.

And besides, it means "buy one, get one for half off". Shouldn't it be "bogoho"?

[Sandman87]

I've seen "bogo" used by computer nerds as a prefix meaning "bogus" for misleading, useless, or inefficient things.

[riley702]

This election year can't be over fast enough. 

It hasn't even started yet. The election is Nov. 2016. Election cycle, maybe?

 

I've seen "bogo" used by computer nerds as a prefix meaning "bogus" for misleading, useless, or inefficient things.

I prefer "nugatory". It's a perfectly proper word, but it just sounds like its meaning to me. Also, that it sounds like it should be spoken by a stoner, complete with "dude"  "Duuude, that's totally nugatory."

[St. Claire]

Ugh, I just saw an article that transcribed part of the Miss American contestant (Colorado, I guess?) when she appeared on a talk show, and she led with how the has a "...very unique job...," which is why she decided to do a monologue for the talent portion. Putting aside the fact that nursing is not an uncommon profession, "unique" means one of a kind and therefore does not need a qualifier.