S03.E05: Chapter Twenty One - The Pirate

[Chyromaniac]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

He! The two dozen people were indeed hilarious. I've read somewhere that that's due to constraints of the Volume stage. Not sure why they could not add a couple more folks in post or however you call it. Maybe Zeb and the dog fights ate up the budget.

Ugh- if that’s true, then it’s a shame.  First off, this is The Mandalorian- if we’re going to have a group of people pinned down and waiting for backup, they should really be huddled in a bombed out building.

Otherwise, the Volume can be a great tool for storytelling- but don’t be too proud of this technological terror you’ve constructed.  If you want to do a crowd shot in a desert, it’s not difficult.  You’re still in LA- just throw some Star Wars stuff on a couple hundred extras, and bus them out to Vasquez Rocks.  Like- one of the subtle things that made Andor stand out from the other shows is that it actually felt like they were filming in real, populated places.

10 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Was also Googling. This is Zeb: 

I know it’s a whole other series- but if anyone is wondering why people are freaking out about this guy, please do check out Rebels.  It’s personally the most satisfying Star Wars project of the Disney era- it just hits the right notes for me in terms of tone, design, story, character…. If nothing else, at least try the first season- but I think if you stick with it, you won’t regret it. Zeb in particular really evolves the further along you go.

[Good Queen Jane]

6 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

If you want to do a crowd shot in a desert, it’s not difficult.  You’re still in LA- just throw some Star Wars stuff on a couple hundred extras, and bus them out to Vasquez Rocks.

I would think all you would have to do is post on any Star Wars site that you need several hundred extras and people in costume would show up for free. Didn't they do that with stormtrooper extras in the first season?

[paigow]

When 2 Mandalorians were trapped in a crossfire, they just waited for help instead of flying away... WTF???!!!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I would think all you would have to do is post on any Star Wars site that you need several hundred extras and people in costume would show up for free. Didn't they do that with stormtrooper extras in the first season?

Sort of. They contacting 501st legion when they didn’t have enough storm troopers. But they are required to pay the extras. 

 

[Shanna Marie]

14 hours ago, MissLucas said:

The two dozen people were indeed hilarious. I've read somewhere that that's due to constraints of the Volume stage.

I wonder why they can't make people part of the Volume scenery -- maybe film people on the stage, then project that behind the people who are actually on the stage, maybe even composite multiple shoots so there's the illusion of a crowd.

I suppose the two dozen could have been the people who survived the attack and wanted to leave. We saw that there were still people in the town, since there was at least the guy serving at the restaurant. There might have been those who hoped to get on the good side of the pirates and were attempting to cooperate, and there might have been those who hunkered down and hoped to escape notice because they didn't want to leave their homes. Actually fleeing might have looked risky. There are plenty of real-world examples of cities under bombardment, and those who flee to the country are generally the minority. Most people stick it out. Look at what's going on in Ukraine right now. People in the occupied and disputed areas are stubbornly holding on. Most of the Nevarro population might be hiding in basements.

[Sarah 103]

On 3/29/2023 at 5:04 AM, ybrik said:

I think the pacing of this season may feel off because it doesn’t seem possible to get a main story going and resolved in such a short time. However I almost think with them saying they already have season 4 written/planned out that this season is almost a part 1 or set up that gets resolved in the next season. Or i could be wrong and everything gets wrapped up neatly in the next 3 episodes. 

I think that has been my problem with the season. There doesn't seem to be a clear story-arc. Maybe it all fit together towards the end of the season.

On 3/29/2023 at 11:42 AM, Peace 47 said:

It’s just that S1 was about Din, a closed off, traumatized survivor of a childhood horror, getting more and more attached to a special, traumatized child.  S2 set up a crisis where every task Din accomplished (for his creed, for his sense of obligation to Grogu) in each individual episode got him one step closer to the most painful thing to him:  separating from this kid that he really had grown to love.  And I think S3 is kind of missing the personal arc that fits within the larger story.  I’m fine if it’s Bo’s arc this season, but episode 2 had some really promising conversations about how she sees herself and her culture, and not a lot since.

If they wanted to make season 3 more about Bo and her arc, I would be on board for that, but they would have needed to spend more time with her and have more scenes with her. All of the peices don't quite make sense.

Something that Stranger Things does really well is during the season they have seperate groups of characters investigating different things, but at the end of the season, everything comes together and the characters realize the different investigations are all connected which leads to the big dramatic season finale. I don't see that happening with this season of The Mandalorain but there's still some episodes left so maybe it will all make sense when we get to the season finale. 

[Orbert]

I think it's starting to come together now.  We did get a bit of Bo's backstory before and saw her multiple times before this season, so she's not exactly a new character.  The bits with Paz Vizsla and the Darksaber were also introduced a while ago, and we've learned about how they all fit into the history of the Mandalorians.  I wasn't sure why we were spending so much time with Capt. Teva, although I thought it was kinduv interesting, then G68 (Kane?) showed up and suddenly those storylines were tied in.  And apparently Moff Gideon is still out there.  So I feel like these last three episodes could really be great if everything ties together.

[paigow]

Gideon is likely supervising the cloning operation for Snoke / Palpatine

[Emily Thrace]

7 hours ago, paigow said:

Gideon is likely supervising the cloning operation for Snoke / Palpatine

Yeah that would fit timeline wise. Although if Mandlorians were involved in breaking him out I wonder if it might be more just be to give him thier own trial and punishment. He did commit genocide against their people. I can see a group of them deciding New Republic jail is too good for him and deciding to inflict Mandalorian justice on him. Either that or Moff Gideon is outfitting some of his followers with Beskar armor.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Sigh, even in outer space it's the bureaucrats coming up short, with lame excuses of too much work.

(But apparently there's a fan theory afoot that either Colonel Tuttle was engaging in sabotage by claiming a backlog, or he was the unwitting victim of it by whoever Elia Kane is working with.)

If R5 revealed the covert location why didn't the Mandalorians destroy it? Seems to me like it's a security risk.

Mandalorian Seal Team 6: Fuck around and find out.

So, Bo-Katan is The One now. How did the Armorer go from disbelief to accepting Bo-Katan's word about the Mythosaur? And from, "Never remove your helmet!" to " Take off your helmet." The Armorer is looking a bit flighty to me.

Ditto comments upthread, Moff Gideon allegedly being abducted by Mandalorians smells like a false flag operation.

Hope someone goes back to the covert and gets the baby pterodactyls.

[MissLucas]

5 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Hope someone goes back to the covert and gets the baby pterodactyls.

Man, I can just see Greef Karga furiously waving the lease around pointing out the animal addendum: Tenants shall not keep any pets on the Property without the prior written consent of the Landlord. 

[foxfreakinmulder]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:50 AM, Ilovepie said:

Although I loved Andor, I am not loving the focus on the Rise of the First Order here. Like hey Dave and Jon, I'm sorry your other show got derailed, but this show is not a political thriller. It's like they liked the positive response to Andor, and decided to make this one more like that......

I really enjoyed Andor, did it get canceled? They need to change the title of this show to Mandalorians. 

[angora]

1 hour ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

I really enjoyed Andor, did it get canceled? They need to change the title of this show to Mandalorians. 

Andor was designed to have two 12-episode seasons. They're working on season 2 right now.

[DoctorAtomic]

Zeb! Not expecting him to be around! 

I'd be exhausted being so paranoid all the time like all the Mandalorians are. I'm pleased Paz was actually being straight up. I thought he was going to be his pissy self. 

Good to see all the Mandalorians wrecking it though. I totally clapped when the ship went down. 

They actually do have a home planet. Though it was a nice line. 

Also nice that the Armorer actually understood Bo saw the mythosaur. I thought she was coming on to Bo at the first. I would think Mando would go off with Bo, and I was surprised she didn't mention he had the dark saber. 

On 3/29/2023 at 7:25 AM, FnkyChkn34 said:

When Din changed into the stormtrooper helmet without anyone else seeing him, that alone didn't break the code.

Says who though? Bill Burr had a lot to say about that. So now, Bo 'lives in two worlds' so she can take it off? Seems like The Way is whatever way is going to get you to where you need to go. 

I'm also not particularly into the geopolitics either, but I get they needed the set up to establish that Gideon got broke out. I mean, I know the first order is coming up, and I don't really need to see much of the origin. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by DoctorAtomic

[paigow]

31 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I was surprised she didn't mention he had the dark saber. 

Din already told the Armorer- Vizla already tried to kill him for it. Maybe Bo knows that Din has blabbed about it....

[DoctorAtomic]

I meant when the Armorer was blathering on about reuniting Mandalorians and was coming on to Bo about it, I would have thought Bo might have said, 'well Din has the sabre, so he should probably come with me'. She was sniping about it to him before, 'Why don't you go wave the sabre around and then everyone will do what you say.' And Bo used 

It does still mean something to some of the Mandalorians they're likely to encounter. 

 

 

[tkc]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Says who though? Bill Burr had a lot to say about that. So now, Bo 'lives in two worlds' so she can take it off? Seems like The

I'm not the first to point this out, but as Hector Barbossa once said, "the code is more what you'd call 'guidelines' than actual rules."

Welcome to Nevarro, Ms. Kryze!

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

They actually do have a home planet. Though it was a nice line. 

Yea I really don't get why they were talking about how the covert needs to find a new hideout or a place to live. Mandalore didn't seem that bad. He'll by Star Wars standards it looked like a pretty livable planet. Why did they not move back there the minute Mando came back and said the living waters are still in liquid form?

I do like this season though, better than season 2 I think. Because even though there was that side story with the scientist guy, none of the episodes have seemed like back door pilots. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm wondering if the other Mandalores ended up hearing the cult moved back onto the planet whether that might cause more problems. No one really said anything like that or asked him what the planet looked like, etc. There's nothing actually preventing them from settling there. 

[paigow]

Hopefully the Armorer does a better job exterminating those orcs and cyborgs than Crocs and pteranadons...

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Why did they not move back there the minute Mando came back and said the living waters are still in liquid form?

I feel like I have a different definition of habitable. They can breathe on the planet but there is still the atmospheric issues, communication issues, massive amounts of rubble, unstable ground, Alamites and weird organic droid hybrids that drain people of blood. Plus the Empire is still big enough to destroy Bo’s castle. While they are a small group with one small transport and one star fighter. Trying to regroup all Mandalorians before returning makes a lot of sense particularly when they are prone to fighting amongst themselves. 

 

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

 

I meant when the Armorer was blathering on about reuniting Mandalorians and was coming on to Bo about it, I would have thought Bo might have said, 'well Din has the sabre, so he should probably come with me'. She was sniping about it to him before, 'Why don't you go wave the sabre around and then everyone will do what you say.'

I thought Bo was too busy being extremely apprehensive that the situation to turn on her suddenly. Who knows what is going to happen next but I would be surprised if Din and Grogu are away from the action. Particularly since, if they had Pedro at all for filming, they would use him for the final episodes. 

[FnkyChkn34]

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Says who though? Bill Burr had a lot to say about that. So now, Bo 'lives in two worlds' so she can take it off? Seems like The Way is whatever way is going to get you to where you need to go. 

Says Paz, I think.  He made a big deal to say that Bo was showing her face, not that she removed her helmet.  I agree that it seems the rules are all shifting, but this is my take on it for now at least.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Says Paz, I think.  He made a big deal to say that Bo was showing her face, not that she removed her helmet.

I wouldn’t read too much into that. The creed is specifically about removing your helmet in front of another living being and their specific armor is such a huge part of the culture. 

[Kel Varnsen]

12 minutes ago, Dani said:

feel like I have a different definition of habitable.

It seemed like it was a way better place to live where they are now. Ya there was the murdering cyborg spider guy and those weird cavemen people. But I will take them over killer pterodactyls and Godzilla crocodiles. Not to mention it seemed at least as habitable as Dagobah, or Hoth or that spider world that Mando landed on or the all ocean world from the prequels or the planet covered in salt from The Last Jedi. They had water so maybe even a better place than Tatooine. And that is not even considering that it is their special ancestral Homeworld.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Ya there was the murdering cyborg spider guy and those weird cavemen people. But I will take them over killer pterodactyls and Godzilla crocodiles.

I probably would too. The main reason I find Mandalore to be more inhospitable at the moment is the other problems caused by the Empire bombing the planet. Like the atmospheric issues and the unstableness of the surface. Before the offer to go to Navarro, the covert was basically a group of xenophobic refugees with very little resources and a perpetual target on their back. 

I don’t think it’s as simple as them just being able to return to Mandalore now that they know they can breathe there. Mandalorian politics probably play a big role in what is happening and we are only beginning to delve into that aspect. They also haven’t returned to Concordia even though that is where they used to actually live. Din had never even stepped foot on Mandalore even though he would have been in his late 20’s when the purge happened. He’s probably not alone in that. 

[FnkyChkn34]

If the Mandalorians want to continue to hide, they could go back to their home planet - they can't communicate with the outside world.  All of Din's communications were going haywire and he said that they were on their own, unable to call for help to anyone.  Plus, there were all of those lightning storms.  If they are really turning over a new leaf and going to live among others, Nevarro is the best option, at least for now.

[DoctorAtomic]

31 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

They had water so maybe even a better place than Tatooine.

You say 'even' like Tatooine is somewhere people actually want to be. 

I was only pointing out that High Magistrate Carl Weathers was trying to be appreciative in saying 'you may not have a homeworld, but here you have a home', but technically they do. Certainly just upping and moving isn't easy, and there are politics to be sure. By the time anyone found out, they could have been settled for quite a while if they wanted. 

Obviously, tv-wise, being in Navarro makes the most sense. 

[paigow]

8 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

You say 'even' like Tatooine is somewhere people actually want to be. 

Boba Fett prefers to rule on Tatooine than serve on Dathomir... 

[Sbeetle]

I was confused when they were unloading boxes from Bo's ship. When did they have time to pack? Don't they have to go back and get their stuff? 

I forgot about the Imperial Cloning Facility on Navarro. 

[Ms.Moon]

On 3/31/2023 at 12:36 PM, Shanna Marie said:

I wonder why they can't make people part of the Volume scenery -- maybe film people on the stage, then project that behind the people who are actually on the stage, maybe even composite multiple shoots so there's the illusion of a crowd.

I suppose the two dozen could have been the people who survived the attack and wanted to leave. We saw that there were still people in the town, since there was at least the guy serving at the restaurant. There might have been those who hoped to get on the good side of the pirates and were attempting to cooperate, and there might have been those who hunkered down and hoped to escape notice because they didn't want to leave their homes. Actually fleeing might have looked risky. There are plenty of real-world examples of cities under bombardment, and those who flee to the country are generally the minority. Most people stick it out. Look at what's going on in Ukraine right now. People in the occupied and disputed areas are stubbornly holding on. Most of the Nevarro population might be hiding in basements.

I wish they would use outdoor spaces like in Andor.  I loved the volume but it really limits how scenes get filmed because it is a smaller space than would be available on a bigger soundstage like the one that was used in Andor for the Ferrix set.

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Ms.Moon said:

I wish they would use outdoor spaces like in Andor.  I loved the volume but it really limits how scenes get filmed because it is a smaller space than would be available on a bigger soundstage like the one that was used in Andor for the Ferrix set.

The Navarro street scenes are filmed on an outdoor set. I have no clue why they didn’t use it for those shots though. It might be a lighting issue. 

[Llywela]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:29 PM, absnow54 said:

And Din will wear his helmet based on Pedro Pascal's filming availability. 

On 4/3/2023 at 1:03 AM, Dani said:

Particularly since, if they had Pedro at all for filming, they would use him for the final episodes. 

Three seasons in, it remains absolutely insane to me that this show was built around an actor who wasn't available to film a good 85% of it. There's no shortage of actors in Hollywood, why not hire one who would be in a position to prioritise the show they've been contracted to film? Why not get Pascal locked into a contract that ensured his availability, if having him in the role was so important, instead of leaving him free to prioritise other work despite being committed to this job already? If it really doesn't matter who is behind the helmet, why hire Pascal in the first place if he wasn't going to be available? It seems such a strange way to make a TV show.

I've been very behind with my viewing all season, only slowly catching up. The more of the season I watch, the more I realise I have forgotten about the earlier seasons - and yet, as much as I enjoy the show, I feel no urge to rewatch. So thank you to everyone here who discusses continuity, ongoing storylines and recurring characters in enough detail to fill in the gaps in my memory!

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Three seasons in, it remains absolutely insane to me that this show was built around an actor who wasn't available to film a good 85% of it. There's no shortage of actors in Hollywood, why not hire one who would be in a position to prioritise the show they've been contracted to film? Why not get Pascal locked into a contract that ensured his availability, if having him in the role was so important, instead of leaving him free to prioritise other work despite being committed to this job already? If it really doesn't matter who is behind the helmet, why hire Pascal in the first place if he wasn't going to be available? It seems such a strange way to make a TV show.

Obviously YMMV but I’d rather have Pedro in only a speaking than another actor who could be there all the time. I look it as, if it doesn’t matter who is behind the helmet than why not hire your first choice. Particularly since with stunt heavy roles it is rarely the actor even when we do see their face. 

[Llywela]

6 minutes ago, Dani said:

Obviously YMMV but I’d rather have Pedro in only a speaking than another actor who could be there all the time. I look it as, if it doesn’t matter who is behind the helmet than why not hire your first choice. Particularly since with stunt heavy roles it is rarely the actor even when we do see their face. 

See, to me, as much as I like Pedro Pascal, he doesn't bring anything special to the role. I don't find his voice acting especially compelling or unique - it honestly could be anyone speaking his lines. And the physical acting, well, as established, that isn't him either. Literally the only thing he brings to the project is his name (and his fans), which is presumably why he was hired. And we seem to discuss in these threads a fair bit how the writing is constrained by whether or not Pedro would actually be around at any given time to be present for certain plot points, so it does make me wonder how differently the story might have been shaped if it had a lead actor who was actually available for the entire production. Like I said, it just seems a strange way to make a TV show, to me. But I appreciate that not everyone will feel that way!

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Llywela said:

And we seem to discuss in these threads a fair bit how the writing is constrained by whether or not Pedro would actually be around at any given time to be present for certain plot points, so it does make me wonder how differently the story might have been shaped if it had a lead actor who was actually available for the entire production.

I understand that feeling I just don’t think that it is really constraining the writing. The big season 2 drama was over ridiculous rumors that Pedro hated wearing the helmet and wanted it be written without it on more often. Even when he was in the suit the helmeted stayed on most of the time. In my opinion the story being told was always going to be one where the actor is very rarely seen. Even when Pedro in the suit all the lines we hear are voice overs.

My quoted post about Pedro possibly being there was just that they aren’t going to write the main plot away from Din in the finale three episodes particularly when this is when the helmet might actually come off. So for me, the Armorer or Bo failing to bring up Din doesn’t mean he’s being left behind. I don’t think Pedro’s availability affects if it will or will not happen. Even if he was absolutely unavailable during principle photography they also could handle those scenes in reshoots.

Narratively, I also wouldn’t believe it if Din was taking off his helmet more than once or twice in a season. So if that is a constraint forced on them by Pedro not being physically available it makes a show stronger to me. But I understand that not everyone feels the same way I do. 

[Zaffy]

So the whole Navarro population are 30 people or so?
It seems  this is Katee's show now. I am not complaining, I love Katee.
At least we have an actor that actually plays the part.

I am sorry Captain Tuva, but everytime you are on screen I expect Umma to appear next :)

On a serious note (!), was the show always like a bad "western-spagetti" or it is this season that everyone seems like have gone in full caricature mode?

[aemom]

On 3/30/2023 at 3:36 PM, MissLucas said:

Zeb was a main character in Star Wars Rebels - other characters from the series have already been cast to appear in Ahsoka. But a lot of folks did not believe that Zeb would make an appearance in live-action tv due to his looks. Hence the excitement. I doubt that he will make a regular in Ahsoka as he's all CGI but it's still neat to see him around.

We're currently watching Rebels (well into Season 1) and are now sliding episodes of The Mandalorian in, so there was definitely a shout of ZEB! at our place.

So, I guess he makes it through Rebels 😀