All Episodes Discussion

[ari333]

A repeat episode from 2010, but we didn't have a thread for it.

 

My bf is Mexican so I know I'd remember this case if I had seen it. He has mentioned some scams about people calling his family and saying weird things like pretending to be a family member (extended family where maybe an older grandma may not recognize the voice if she has 20 or more adult and teen grandkids) People ask for money or say someone is arrested ....or has been in an accident or is in the hospital -- all a ruse to get money. It's horrible and it scares the elderly family member who receives the call. Some panic. Some wisely say.... "wait let me call you back; give me a phone number." Then the scammer person hangs up. Busted.

Edited November 5, 2015 by ari333

[UsernameFatigue]

I can see how two people in the same situation can interpret the events in a completely different way.

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I think a nurse testified that she had a small abraision (can't remember the exact words) in the genital area. The teenager tells her friend that she THINKS she MAY have had a sexual encounter with Owen. He says that he was going to have intercourse then changed his mind. I think he may have started, changed his mind but ejaculated which would hardly be a surprise. His semen was not found in her (and of course couldn't be considering the time it took her to go the police) but on her panties.

 

As far as being on the sexual registry for life, I was reading that in NH he can apply to have his name removed after either 10 or 15 years (the article was before sentencing and I can't remember why the discrepency). However there is no guarentee that his request would be granted. Apparently the way the law is written the judge has no discretion as whether to put him on the registry or not. There has been an outcry because of this case as his situation was never the reason the law was brought in to start with. It looks like it may be re examined down the road to prevent this abuse of the intent of the law. Not that that will help Labrie.

Edited November 5, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[ButterQueen]

I love how the big man on campus soccer star showed up as Harry Potter at the trial. He bragged about "boning" her, but lied to the police. He was cocky and smug until he got caught. I believe the victim. She was very very upset. I too see why victims of rape stay quiet.

[ari333]

I love how the big man on campus soccer star showed up as Harry Potter at the trial. He bragged about "boning" her, but lied to the police. He was cocky and smug until he got caught. I believe the victim. She was very very upset. I too see why victims of rape stay quiet.

 

THIS ^^^

[psychoticstate]

Did they say she had any vaginal injury? I cant recall now.

 

Anyway, even if she were naked, she could still say, "no." That would be terrible timing and really bad judgment to go that far and wait to say no, if that happened. I can see a 15 yr old getting into that situation.

 

I believe her bc of her statements, but also bc of the guy's demeanor and statements. Why deny that he had sexual contact with her at all? I realize that being a smarmy, smirky jerk does not make a rapist; But also rape does not have to be sudden and violent with severe physical injuries.  I'm not saying this very well.

 

I wondered why the guy would lie about it too but then I thought if he did lie, it was probably out of fear.  He's a teen, the girl is accusing him of rape, he may have thought it looked worse for him to say they did indeed have sex.  Not saying it's right but it also doesn't mean rape was involved in this case. 

 

If I had been on that jury and based on info we were given on the show and what's been shared here, I don't think I could have convicted him.  I think she may have felt like she had to have sex with him, which is sad, but does he deserve to be on the sex registry for life for that?  Why did she want their meeting to be secret?  Why tell a friend she "may" have had a sexual encounter?  Why tell him he's an angel after he supposedly raped you?  Maybe they started and stopped, I don't know. Too many gray areas. 

[psychoticstate]

This sounds like the Vengeance in Vegas episode from 48 Hours, ari.

[jenkait]

OK so it was on 48 Hours!  Thank you!  I started watching it, and I was like, "WTF, isn't this a repeat from like 2 WEEKS AGO?!"  November is a good TV month so that didn't make any sense...

[Stampiron]

Russell Faria's second murder trial concluded today. He opted for a bench trial this time (Judge, no jury.)

The Judge's verdict: Not Guilty! He's now a free man.

Pam Hupp wasn't called to testify. She was in the gallery on the last day but left before the verdict was announced.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/faria-not-guilty-in-lincoln-county-murder-of-his-wife/article_1a377230-8af1-5d79-992a-0f32d1c9bbf6.html

[cooksdelight]

This was new to me, hadn't seen this story before. And the guy's sister keeps defending him. Heck, it was obvious to me that he hired the homeless man to do it, but the guy screwed up by taking her bikini bottom and other stuff. If he'd just done the murder and left, it might still have been a suspected break-in based on the earlier story.

[callmebetty]

Why oh why can't people just get a fucking divorce? I will never understand how many sociopaths there are that killing their significant other is the only solution. Because these are not in the moment killings they are always planned.

[ari333]

Did they show the security cam footage of the husband going hammer shopping with homeless guy?

[callmebetty]

Did they show the security cam footage of the husband going hammer shopping with homeless guy?

Yes they did.

[ari333]

Are people that stupid or arrogant or not thinking or what? Sheesh.

[walnutqueen]

Yet again, a story we just saw on another show.  Can't these guys find original crimes to cover?   Oh, wait - that would be, like, WORK.

[Calamity Jane]

I've changed my mind 5 times to Sunday (as we say here in the south) based on some of the very insightful and intelligent posts here. This is one of the favorite forums I mod due in large fact to the people who post here.

My family (southwestern Missouri, so Midwest with a huge overlay of South) says "six ways from Sunday." 

[BitterApple]

I live in Las Vegas so I found it hilarious that the defense lawyer claimed difficulty in tracking down a handyman was the reason for hundreds of phone calls between hubby and the homeless guy. I guess he forgot about the clusters of illegals hanging around Lowe's and Home Depot on a daily basis looking for work. Vegas is NOT a city where it's a struggle to find household help. That was a pretty lame argument.

Edited November 7, 2015 by BitterApple

[tobeannounced]

Well, shoot, I erased it as soon as I realized I had seen it before.  But I guess I was too hasty because it was 48 Hours instead of Dateline according to y'all.  Did they have anything new to add?  It looked like all the same footage from the 48 Hours show.

[jenkait]

I remember seeing this episode on a weekend episode of TLC a long time ago.  It was one of the best episodes/worst stories I can remember.

 

Not exactly a spoiler, but I remember reading that tragically, Jayne passed away from breast cancer a few years later.  Awful.

[saber5055]

I can't get CBS stations so don't see 48 Hours. This was a new case to me. What I missed or wasn't explained: Why would the husband want her dead? They had a daughter before they got married, then got married, then were either separated or divorced, living in different homes. Was there a life insurance policy? The victim didn't seem to have another boyfriend to cause jealousy. She wasn't moving (was she?) to take daughter away. I just didn't get the motive.

 

The defense bringing in the handyman guy who was being shown as completely crazy in court did more for the prosecution IMO. If Greyhound was batsh*t, why would the husband keep calling him or hiring him? Helping the homeless is one thing, calling a mentally ill guy a bazillion times a day is quite another. How does a homeless guy on foot, living in the desert, get to handyman jobs?

 

Plus the hammer(s) the husband and Greyhound were shown buying were not the murder weapon(s)? And they know this how?

 

As always, lots of unanswered questions. The victim was an extremely beautiful woman though. I'll give her that. OH! Why did the show make such a big deal about her parking in a more obscure parking lot? Did Greyhound get in her car with her and make her drive home so he could kill her? Otherwise, that was a waste of time.

[BitterApple]

I think the parking lot angle was a poor attempt to create a red herring and lead viewers to believe the wife was kidnapped/assaulted at the casino and then murdered at home.

Did they end up saying which family got custody of the daughter? I was distracted towards the end and didn't catch if they mentioned it.

[PepperMonkey]

Yeah, the fireman/convicted murderer's mother has custody. They made it sound like the little girl still has a relationship with her mother's family, though, which is good.

 

I never got a clear picture of the motive, either, from either the 48 hours episode or this one. I guess it was because he was such a control freak? And didn't like it that she spent money whenever she wanted to AND that she had the guts to leave him??? I mean, I guess people have been killed for stupider reasons. I didn't like the cut of his jib at all, though. His eyes in most of the still photos were pretty soulless, imho.

[BitterApple]

Thanks PepperMonkey. I'm happy to read the girl has a relationship with both families.

I didn't really get the motive either. The husband looked like a major douche, but it didn't seem like their history was so volatile it would lead to murder. There was no mention of life insurance or a new boyfriend. The wife worked, so I didn't get the impression she was sucking him dry financially. Hubby was definitely guilty, but the whole thing made no sense.

Edited November 7, 2015 by BitterApple

[cooksdelight]

And it's always Sunday. Must be a church reference, LOL!

[saber5055]

I saw this when it first aired, so I did not watch it again. It was stressful enough the first time, to see how easily one can be kidnapped or killed in Mexico, they went from a happy (and successfully wealthy) family to a loooong tragic time. And yeah, Jayne dying made the whole thing even worse. That was revealed on the show at the very end. I don't remember if the kidnappers were ever captured, but the show sort of made it clear that kidnapping is a pretty big business, with cops included on the take.

[pamplemousse]

I don't have any trouble believing her. I especially don't have any trouble reconciling her responding to his texts and initially telling the school nurse the sex was consensual with the belief that she is telling the truth and Owen Labrie raped her. Contrary to popular belief and the ideas that rape culture sow, women aren't actually eager to run around screaming rape, nor do they find it easy to do so. Most women are very averse to admitting that they've been raped because not only do people blame and shame them, they blame and shame themselves because that's what society has taught women: if you've been raped, you must've done something to put yourself in that position or situation, you should've known better. Most women also, contrary to popular belief, don't go around screaming rape if they regret having sex with someone. They'll probably be scrutinized as much, if not more, than the rapist. Women don't actually want to believe they've been raped, they don't want to believe that they've been horribly violated, especially when they're going to have to prove it and defend all their actions prior to, during, and subsequent as though they somehow brought it on themselves. Most victims of acquaintance and 'friend' rape deny it to themselves at first (and sometimes for a very long time), wanting to normalize it because they don't want to believe they've been mistreated and violated in such a terrible way by someone they know/were attracted to/trust/were friendly with. I believe that's what this young woman was going through -- I think she didn't want to believe that one of the most popular and high-achieving boys in school, who many students looked up to, had just raped her. She wanted to normalize it in her mind, but continued to be haunted by it and could no longer deny to herself that she had been mistreated and violated. She was worried about being another notch on his belt (given her initial refusal to his first message), he was obviously socially and sexually successful given his reputation as a player, she probably didn't want to think at first that he had raped her because who would believe her? Why would a guy like Owen Labrie need to rape anyone? Maybe, just maybe, she was terrified, blaming herself, wondering who would believe her or if she would just be written off as another hysterical, crazy female running around crying rape just because she regretted putting out.

 

I believe Owen Labrie is a predator and used the internet and social media in a predatory manner. Predators are not just creepy old pedo men who go online to lure young girls. I do not think what Owen Labrie did was simply sending some harmless high-flown messages to the young woman, I think he planned out how he was going to 'slay' or bag -- or whatever slang he and his friends used -- her, he made a list with one of his friends, he went about luring her in a very caculated and calculating way. I do not consider his behavior to be 'wooing' or being a hormonal teenage boy, I don't buy any of this boys will be horny boys crap, that is such rape culture 'logic' and 'reasoning.' I think a lot of teenage boys out there display very disturbing predatory behavior online that should be highly discouraged but are excused by society, theirs may not have all led to taking a girl into dark machinery room and having sex with her (just like Owen Labrie intended to do and arranged and executed all of his actions towards that goal), but that doesn't make their behavior any less that of predation. I have no reason to believe that she lied, all her behavior is consistent with everything I've heard about victims of acquaintance/friend rape, but Owen Labrie exposed himself as a liar when he was cross-examined and said that he didn't think there was anything wrong with the hundreds of facebook messages he had deleted. If that were so, if he genuinely had no idea and/or did not believe his messages were inculpatory, why did he delete them? Nothing better to do that particular day, no good programs on tv? I also found it interesting how he looked rather sporty douchebro in before pics, and showed up looking like innocent little Harry Potter (tm some other poster) to his trial.

 

I am especially disappointed in that woman who helped to get the law against internet luring pushed through when she said that someone like Owen Labrie isn't who she had in mind when she championed that measure. Sexual offenders come in all kinds just like felony murder isn't simply for the worst murderers and serial killers. I believe Owen Labrie had the intent to have sex with the young woman without any regard for whether she wanted it because he wanted to be able to  cross off the only name in caps at the top of his list, he went about doing everything he could to lure her to that roof and into that machinery room (and said so to his friends), and his intent to have sex with her in that room carried throughout all of it. I find his claim that he couldn't go through with it once they were in that room more suspect and inconsistent with all his prior behavior than anything she did or said. And I find it incredibly gross and manipulative that he texted her afterward calling her an angel -- it's almost like he knew he'd done something wrong and wanted to check her response. I'm unsurprised that she answered back, I'm sure his message made her even more confused and just played into her wanting to believe that someone who would had the nerve to text her and call her an angel couldn't possibly be a manipulative predatory rapist. Except I fully think Owen Labrie is just that and I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest, especially not about having to register as a sex offender for life (which is likely to be overturned or mitigated at appeal). I'm disgusted but unsurprised that he only got a year, he probably won't have to even serve that entire time, and he was allowed to stay at home between his conviction and appeal. (I'm hard pressed to think of a case where a young black man convicted for drug possession charges got off so lightly...hmmm, nope can't think of any right now.) He seems to have a skilled and confident female attorney for his appeals, so I'm sure the poor little clean cut white boy who had SUCH A BRIGHT FUTURE BEFORE IT WAS RUINED BY ALL THIS (thanks very much for highlighting that a billion times, Dateline, good job with your so thinly veiled as to be transparent skewed reporting in favor of the young white male on trial as though he is the victim) will end up okay eventually. Maybe not Harvard okay, but hey, there's always Brown or UPenn.

Edited November 8, 2015 by pamplemousse

[ari333]

Campus cops make a terrible discovery in a dorm room after a boyfriend's weekend visit goes horribly wrong. Repeat episode.

[A.Ham]

I had not seen the original. What a tragic story. I don't know that I would have maintained as much composure as Jayne did under the circumstances. As it was, I did not know if I could take any more after the worker also got kidnapped. Kidnappings are almost a business in Mexico--it is even common for them to kidnap soap stars or their family members for ransom. Apparently the people that did this to Eduardo have not been caught yet. I feel like their punishment should match what they did to him in some ways. What vile excuses for human beings those scumbags are.

[ari333]

This was horrifying. I had not seen this exact show before; but as Jayne described a skeleton walking toward the back door, I did recall seeing this story, or rather part of it, on some other show or newscast that I cant remember. Whatever piece of show I did see before it did not include all the details of anything about the box and torture. He is lucky to be alive.

 

I think they were correct in assuming or inferring that someone close to them ratted them out and gave out info about their family... personal stuff. The jaded cynic in me even wondered if the employees who  volunteered (?) to drop the money were in on it all because... what happened? The dude was taken, held for 3 months and released, alive, with no ransom. WHAT? I also wondered who, in their right mind, would volunteer for that job unless they were trained police , etc. which as I understood it, they were not LE etc.

Also, not victim blaming here, I'd never do that, but Jayne initially noticed something weird about that truck and she even went as far as to ask that woman about it. My thought on that is  - ALWAYS trust your gut. If it looks weird, treat it like it is dangerous and have it checked out (not yourself) and do not blow it off.

[Tdoc72]

I think she is guilty. But the prosecution is/was so hyper focused on Russ that she'll never even be investigated. Smh

[Rowan]

Nothing to see here.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Rowan

[ari333]

I don't have any trouble believing her. I especially don't have any trouble reconciling her responding to his texts and initially telling the school nurse the sex was consensual with the belief that she is telling the truth and Owen Labrie raped her. Contrary to popular belief and the ideas that rape culture sow, women aren't actually eager to run around screaming rape, nor do they find it easy to do so. Most women are very averse to admitting that they've been raped because not only do people blame and shame them, they blame and shame themselves because that's what society has taught women: if you've been raped, you must've done something to put yourself in that position or situation, you should've known better. Most women also, contrary to popular belief, don't go around screaming rape if they regret having sex with someone. They'll probably be scrutinized as much, if not more, than the rapist. Women don't actually want to believe they've been raped, they don't want to believe that they've been horribly violated, especially when they're going to have to prove it and defend all their actions prior to, during, and subsequent as though they somehow brought it on themselves. Most victims of acquaintance and 'friend' rape deny it to themselves at first (and sometimes for a very long time), wanting to normalize it because they don't want to believe they've been mistreated and violated in such a terrible way by someone they know/were attracted to/trust/were friendly with. I believe that's what this young woman was going through -- I think she didn't want to believe that one of the most popular and high-achieving boys in school, who many students looked up to, had just raped her. She wanted to normalize it in her mind, but continued to be haunted by it and could no longer deny to herself that she had been mistreated and violated. She was worried about being another notch on his belt (given her initial refusal to his first message), he was obviously socially and sexually successful given his reputation as a player, she probably didn't want to think at first that he had raped her because who would believe her? Why would a guy like Owen Labrie need to rape anyone? Maybe, just maybe, she was terrified, blaming herself, wondering who would believe her or if she would just be written off as another hysterical, crazy female running around crying rape just because she regretted putting out.

 

I believe Owen Labrie is a predator and used the internet and social media in a predatory manner. Predators are not just creepy old pedo men who go online to lure young girls. I do not think what Owen Labrie did was simply sending some harmless high-flown messages to the young woman, I think he planned out how he was going to 'slay' or bag -- or whatever slang he and his friends used -- her, he made a list with one of his friends, he went about luring her in a very caculated and calculating way. I do not consider his behavior to be 'wooing' or being a hormonal teenage boy, I don't buy any of this boys will be horny boys crap, that is such rape culture 'logic' and 'reasoning.' I think a lot of teenage boys out there display very disturbing predatory behavior online that should be highly discouraged but are excused by society, theirs may not have all led to taking a girl into dark machinery room and having sex with her (just like Owen Labrie intended to do and arranged and executed all of his actions towards that goal), but that doesn't make their behavior any less that of predation. I have no reason to believe that she lied, all her behavior is consistent with everything I've heard about victims of acquaintance/friend rape, but Owen Labrie exposed himself as a liar when he was cross-examined and said that he didn't think there was anything wrong with the hundreds of facebook messages he had deleted. If that were so, if he genuinely had no idea and/or did not believe his messages were inculpatory, why did he delete them? Nothing better to do that particular day, no good programs on tv? I also found it interesting how he looked rather sporty douchebro in before pics, and showed up looking like innocent little Harry Potter (tm some other poster) to his trial.

 

I am especially disappointed in that woman who helped to get the law against internet luring pushed through when she said that someone like Owen Labrie isn't who she had in mind when she championed that measure. Sexual offenders come in all kinds just like felony murder isn't simply for the worst murderers and serial killers. I believe Owen Labrie had the intent to have sex with the young woman without any regard for whether she wanted it because he wanted to be able to  cross off the only name in caps at the top of his list, he went about doing everything he could to lure her to that roof and into that machinery room (and said so to his friends), and his intent to have sex with her in that room carried throughout all of it. I find his claim that he couldn't go through with it once they were in that room more suspect and inconsistent with all his prior behavior than anything she did or said. And I find it incredibly gross and manipulative that he texted her afterward calling her an angel -- it's almost like he knew he'd done something wrong and wanted to check her response. I'm unsurprised that she answered back, I'm sure his message made her even more confused and just played into her wanting to believe that someone who would had the nerve to text her and call her an angel couldn't possibly be a manipulative predatory rapist. Except I fully think Owen Labrie is just that and I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest, especially not about having to register as a sex offender for life (which is likely to be overturned or mitigated at appeal). I'm disgusted but unsurprised that he only got a year, he probably won't have to even serve that entire time, and he was allowed to stay at home between his conviction and appeal. (I'm hard pressed to think of a case where a young black man convicted for drug possession charges got off so lightly...hmmm, nope can't think of any right now.) He seems to have a skilled and confident female attorney for his appeals, so I'm sure the poor little clean cut white boy who had SUCH A BRIGHT FUTURE BEFORE IT WAS RUINED BY ALL THIS (thanks very much for highlighting that a billion times, Dateline, good job with your so thinly veiled as to be transparent skewed reporting in favor of the young white male on trial as though he is the victim) will end up okay eventually. Maybe not Harvard okay, but hey, there's always Brown or UPenn.

 

 

THIS IS EXCELLENT and so spot on... imo

[JudyObscure]

There's something in my Google news right now about a pastor's wife in Indianapolis, Amanda Blackburn.  I don't want to link to it because the story is way long and reads like a biography for the Inspiration channel. (What ever happened to journalism?)  The gist of it is the young pastor came home and found his pregnant wife shot in the head by an intruder.   Now I feel like a jerk for thinking he did it.

[Tunia]

 

Sad story, JudyObscure, but thanks for the heads-up on it.

 

And you're right about this:

(What ever happened to journalism?)

because from the USA Today article comes this:

The Marion County Coroner's office confirmed Blackburn, 28, was moved from the hospital and pronounced dead after her organs were donated.

One would hope Amanda was pronounced dead before her organs were donated.

[Zahdii]

One would hope Amanda was pronounced dead before her organs were donated.

 

With a head injury, the woman was probably declared brain dead, but not physically dead until her heart or other organs were removed in the operating room.  At such time would she be considered to be physically dead.

 

http://www.organtransplants.org/understanding/death/

[cooksdelight]

The regularly scheduled episode has been bumped so that an update on the terror attacks in Paris can be aired.

[cooksdelight]

Another repeat that needed a thread...

The unbelievable murder of Carol Kennedy, a popular college professor, artist and mother.

[cooksdelight]

The story sounds hinky to me. A burglar doesn't come into a house, discover someone's there, then shoot them. They run off and get out of there.

[Mrs. P.]

There's something in my Google news right now about a pastor's wife in Indianapolis, Amanda Blackburn. I don't want to link to it because the story is way long and reads like a biography for the Inspiration channel. (What ever happened to journalism?) The gist of it is the young pastor came home and found his pregnant wife shot in the head by an intruder. Now I feel like a jerk for thinking he did it.

This was exactly my thought when I read the story. Young, beautiful, pregnant mother of one gunned down in her home; her husband comes home and finds her. Hmmm. Sounds like a future "the husband did it" Dateline episode to me.

Looks like I have to adjust my thinking about "the husband did it." News sources are reporting the he has been completely cleared and is not a person of interest.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Mrs. P.

[Ohmo]

I am especially disappointed in that woman who helped to get the law against internet luring pushed through when she said that someone like Owen Labrie isn't who she had in mind when she championed that measure. Sexual offenders come in all kinds just like felony murder isn't simply for the worst murderers and serial killers.

 

 

I'm late to the discussion, but I just watched this episode.  I agree that sexual predators come in all kinds, and I don't think Owen is a terrific person.  That said, I'm bothered by the implication of the above comment that women are supposed (or expected) to think only one way when it comes to sexual assault: that the woman is always to be believed.  I'm a woman and society has told both men and women that sexual assaults are often not reported.  From that statistic came "No means No," and at the risk of being ragingly unpopular, I think "No means No" has done some disservice to women.  A simple statement has been applied to a very complicated issue, and I think a large number of women have interpreted "No means No" as universal protection no matter what, but those words weren't intended as three magic words.  There seems to be much less of an emphasis on encouraging women and young girls to think critically in the steps before events get to needing "No means no," and THAT bothers me more as a woman...the implication that women can't or shouldn't be expected to think four, five, or even six steps ahead to ensure their safety because hey, we've got "No means no."  Those words were intended as words of absolute last resort, but I think many women have interpreted them as an absolution against thought and responsibility for their own personal safety.

 

At 15, teenagers can think. and any number of things can happen when two people (of any gender) willingly spend time alone in a secluded space.  Either one of them could have robbed, beaten up, or even murdered the other.  When people (be they male or female) put themselves in a dangerous situation, they have to understand that they are accepting some risk that they may (or may not) be able to get themselves out of.  I know that's not fair, but it's reality, and I think teenagers can even understand.  "If I do X or go to Y, something bad could happen to me." Teenagers are developmentally incapable of evaluating lots of possibilities, but that doesn't mean they can't evaluate any.  At the base level, they can understand "bad" and "dangerous."

 

I had a difficult time listening to the mother.  I know that she loves her child, but her daughter wasn't completely innocent in all of this.  She knew what the Senior Salute was.  She accepted Owen's invitation after initially rejecting it.  She may not have been thinking about rape or any kind of criminal act, but she knew on some level that something was not right.

 

So, I ask this question sincerely: What do we do?  I've seen the term "victim-shaming."  Everyone here (including myself) is so afraid of being the least bit negative of women who have been assaulted, but I think in our societal attempts to be compassionate, we have de-emphasized the critical-thinking skills that could have prevented that girl from going with Owen in the first place.  There's more empowerment in not putting yourself in a dangerous situation  instead of expecting to use three words to stop something heinous from happening to you.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Ohmo

[Ohmo]

I agree that girls need to be taught self-worth but I also think we shouldn't expect any fifteen year-old girl to be able to handle an 18 year-old boy.

 

Depends on what you mean by "handle," and handling can't just mean the situation itself.  Handling has to come years before kids might even find themselves in a situation, where they (be they male or female) are comfortable enough to follow their intuition (which this young lady did initially do) or decline and be comfortable standing alone outside the crowd if something could be dangerous or harmful.

[ChristmasJones]

I was going through my DVR today and realized I had recorded an episode recently that was a re-run from a year or two ago- At Close Range. I decided to re-watch it. I quickly discovered that one of the hottest detectives I've ever seen on a true crime show was featured in this episode. Yum. Detective Boland, you can interrogate me anytime!!!

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2015 by ChristmasJones

[UsernameFatigue]

10/10 to your posts Ohmo, particularly the first one. And really I get tired of people pointing out their ages. She was almost 16 and he was 18. There is a reason why many teenage girls go out with guys a year or two older than they are. Boys are emotionally more immature than girls, so they were pretty much on an even playing field in that respect. She had just as much responsibility to act maturely as he did. They both acted irresponsibly IMO.

[cooksdelight]

Is someone else watching this? I've never seen it before, and I've never seen so many twists and turns in a case in my life!!

[ButterQueen]

My husband and I watched. Not only do we think the ex-husband killed her, we think he had the renter killed.

[A.Ham]

The intro to the show asked us to consider that this time around the husband may not be guilty, but he looked guilty as sin from the get-go. And lo and behold, for the hundredth time, the husband did it.

This family had such a bizarre way of defending the killer. I mean, even his daughter helped him by sending some ridiculous email to the prosecutor. But I got the sense that both daughters knew he was guilty, but that did not seem to matter to them because he was still their father, and they still wanted him in their lives. I would not be as forgiving if I was in their shoes. And his sister annoyed me with her whole "well, I've looked at the renter's medical records and he did not have Cancer". The hell? Aren't HIPAA laws supposed to prevent inappropriate reviews of patient files? Because unless she treated him, which was not stated on the show, she had no business getting her hands on his medical records.

And I agree, Butterqueen, at the very least, the renter's death looks suspicious to me.

[cooksdelight]

If I were the daughters, I'd be scared he might take out a large life insurance policy on them, were he found not guilty. How does someone making half a million per year always be broke and borrowing money? And I agree about the sister and HIPPA, I'm surprised Keith didn't call her out on that to find out how she got that info.

[ButterQueen]

The ex-husband did a google search on how to make a murder look like suicide. The renter had nothing to gain by Carol's death, in fact, he probably would have lost his home. The sister of the murderer made me sick. If she examined the renter's medical records, she should lose her license. I also found it odd, that while his whole, very successful family stood by him, no one offered to help with his attorney fees. When the daughter's money ran out, he was forced to use a public defender. Also, if he took the golf club to Karen's to be sold in a sale, why wasn't it still at her house? Also, his high powered defense team dropping the case spoke volumes.

[walnutqueen]

The ex-husband did a google search on how to make a murder look like suicide. The renter had nothing to gain by Carol's death, in fact, he probably would have lost his home. The sister of the murderer made me sick. If she examined the renter's medical records, she should lose her license. I also found it odd, that while his whole, very successful family stood by him, no one offered to help with his attorney fees. When the daughter's money ran out, he was forced to use a public defender. Also, if he took the golf club to Karen's to be sold in a sale, why wasn't it still at her house? Also, his high powered defense team dropping the case spoke volumes.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing, ButterQueen.   I did not care for the sister, and her superior attitude about her amazingly accomplished and successful family, who apparently all stood behind the husband with all their support, but no funds for his defense.  That spoke volumes about what kind of stock the narcissist husband came from.  He really did think he was too clever to be caught.  I think all this stuff about the renter was a red herring.

[Stampiron]

James Knapp's medical records were part of the trial. That's how the sister was able to view them.

[cooksdelight]

The renter did lose his home, I believe they said that he was killed in the home "he was living in afterward" or something like that. I may rewatch this one to pick up the things I missed.