All Episodes Discussion

[walnutqueen]

It is sad, but true. Ask me and my 50+ female friends all about it. :)

 

Wait till you're 60+ and it won't be sad or true (or matter much) at all.  Cronedom = freedom, eh!

[walnutqueen]

Dateline ran this promo:

http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/video/preview-footprint-in-the-dust-529404995865

I spent most of last night praying that Keith Morrison will end up at a Grey Gardens-esque house and be forced to spend the hour with half-feral cats crawling all over him, being plied with dusty mystery snacks by a crazy lady wearing hot pants on her head. Please please please...

 

Just send him to my house - I don't wear pants on my head, or anywhere else, for the most part.  But I have the Grey Gardens/feral cats/dusty everything, and even visiting raccoons down to a fine art!!!

[LakeGal]

My step daughter is a female guard at a male prison.  She laughs at the way the male inmates try to flirt with her.  She has had training on what to expect.  She has no sympathy for them.  So it doesn't get to her.  

 

This woman did not seem to listen to her training.   

[Irritable]

I don't think this one needed to be 2 hours.  It was pretty obvious who did it, and the biggest surprises were the sad reveals that Suzy's brother and daughter both died before Marty even went to trial.  Interesting that his sentence was so long, considering that it didn't seem to be a premeditated murder, but more that he snapped when he saw her coming from the other guy's truck with her bra slung over her arm (I assume they only mentioned that part on the show to help us see why he would be upset enough to kill her).  Maybe it was because he never admitted his guilt that they gave him 120 years?  Not saying I think he deserved less, just that I have seen so many cases where a murderer who planned it out got a lot less.

[walnutqueen]

OK, I'll admit I was thinking "the Marty the Murderer Diet Plan".  260 to 150 to look more innocent to a jury?  Now, that's some powerful motivation!

 

My handbasket is already packed and ready to go, so don't even bother.

 

But I'm saving a seat for Keith Morrison right next to me!

[cooksdelight]

He gave me the absolute creepiest vibe, ever. Some people are just born bad.

Save me a seat, WQ, I'm right there with you. I even thought of a jingle and a logo for his infomercial from prison.

[Morbs]

This short story is about us, haha, http://donttellmeitellyou.tumblr.com/post/111605529684/we-want-death-2Dateline watchers.

I have yet to watch this episode but I'm excited.

[walnutqueen]

He gave me the absolute creepiest vibe, ever. Some people are just born bad.

Save me a seat, WQ, I'm right there with you. I even thought of a jingle and a logo for his infomercial from prison.

 

It is a PARTY BUS SIZED handbasket*, cooks; room for all us sinners!  But just in case, I'm weaving another one in the confines of my padded cell.  :-)

 

 

* that's even bigger than a FAMILY VAN!

Edited September 26, 2015 by walnutqueen

[Tunia]

The huge red flag was that during all Marty's "concerned" phone calls as he was driving the three hours to Suzy's, not once (that they showed us, anyway) did he mention that he was on the road to see if she was in need.  Wouldn't a loving, concerned boyfriend say in that situation "Gee Honey, you're not answering and I'm worried and heading your way" or "Hey Baby, I'm almost at your doorstep - hope you're OK and just out for the evening."...something other than the fact that she hadn't returned his calls?  My feeling is that there was a reason he didn't want Suzy to know he was making the trip to her home, so her murder may have been more pre-planned than they played up.

[saber5055]

Yes, Tunia, a big YES to that. If someone lives three hours away and is worried about someone, they call the local police to do a welfare check or say they are on their way, or waiting outside, or knocking on their door. This guy knew she was on a date and was just checking to find out when she got home. Not home yet? Okay, you b*tch, I'm coming over to show you who's boss.

 

His "follow up" phone call the next day really wasn't well-thought-out. "Hello, Sweetie!" Please. He should have been triple p.o.d and left a really mean message, except he knew she was dead ... because he killed her. Plus a regular guy would have been calling the authorities because she never came home from that date.

 

WTHeck was up with the first group of investigators stalemating this arrest? No murder weapon (his hands!), but they had locating phone calls, the freaky voicemails, the bank video, her hair in his Lysoled van, scratches all over his back. What more do you need? If those guys had done their job, that husband/father and daughter might still be alive. Thank goodness the brother did not kill the murderer or we would have been watching his trial on Dateline.

 

The SIL was heartbreaking, and made me cry along with her. Not being able to enjoy her own wee baby boy and all those lost years ... that Marty guy killed more than one person IMO.

 

I TOTALLY LOVED Keith's stink eye he kept using on Marty there at the end. He so obviously disliked Marty, the show even had him appear in his prison orange so we all knew ahead of time that he got convicted.

 

Hooray for once the police used phone records. I get so irritated on other Datelines when traceable phone calls are never talked about. Plus, it's so easy to find out who sets up email accounts, and this time the police checked on that, too. FINALLY!

 

My takeaway from this episode, though, is the poor manners of the boyfriend, Brad, who drove away without seeing if she got into her building okay, made him responsible for what happened. I was taught to ALWAYS wait until someone gets inside their house and turns on a light before driving away, just to know they made it in okay. And ALWAYS wait until someone starts their car and begins to drive away if dropping someone off in a parking lot. It's just common courtesy.

Edited September 26, 2015 by saber5055

[biakbiak]

I always wait for people but I don't think that makes him responsible given the size of the town.

I wondered about the accident the daughter had, her grandfather said she always wore her seatbelt and it was the night before an emotional event and she was missing her mother. Given she was the reason that Marty was back in her mother's life, I wondered if it could have been another suicide.

[walnutqueen]

And ALWAYS wait until someone starts their car and begins to drive away if dropping someone off in a parking lot. It's just common courtesy.

 

After watching numerous repeats of The Girl in the Blue Mustang, I've learned even that isn't always enough.  Common courtesy is good, hyper-vigilance is better.  (And avoiding all risks of the world beyond your own 4 walls guarantees you'll die alone, so we are basically pretty much screwed!).  :~(

 

You just can't ever take too many precautions, yet all the precautions imaginable sometimes fail to prevent an unimaginable horror.

[cooksdelight]

There was a local case, I think it was profiled on this show, about a woman named Kristi Cornwell who was killed by a man who later committed suicide.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/kristi-cornwells-body-found-georgia/story?id=12529202

This case last night reminded me of that one. There were rumors swirling around from day one about the guy, driving the vehicle someone described, as being the person responsible for Kristi's death. But no one took it seriously. He could have been arrested right away if law enforcement was paying attention. Just like this guy.

I knew this guy's father. There was another person in the family who committed suicide after trying to kill her kids. Keith Morrison should jump on this one, for no other reason than countless pain and harm could have been prevented if someone had been paying attention to all the red flags and signals.

And nobody does stink eye quite like Keith. :)

[walnutqueen]

And nobody does stink eye quite like Keith. :)

 

 

True dat, but I did have a cat who came pretty fucking close, and gave a side-eye like nobody's business!   hee

[ari333]

My step daughter is a female guard at a male prison.  She laughs at the way the male inmates try to flirt with her.  She has had training on what to expect.  She has no sympathy for them.  So it doesn't get to her.  

 

This woman did not seem to listen to her training.   

 

 

So im guessing that  your step daughter is very well trained..... and not 51 and feeling unattractive and needy.If this Joyce chick had more training she may not have fallen for this shit. Also, the walking in rules and not checking the bags. FAIL.

Sad story all the way around

And .... POOR HUSBAND LYLE. Frankly I think at some point  she entertained the idea.... that she wanted her husband dead

Edited September 26, 2015 by ari333

[Monkeybball]

So im guessing that  your step daughter is very well trained..... and not 51 and feeling unattractive and needy.If this Joyce chick had more training she may not have fallen for this shit. Also, the walking in rules and not checking the bags. FAIL.

Sad story all the way around

And .... POOR HUSBAND LYLE. Frankly I think at some point  she entertained the idea.... that she wanted her husband dead

omg....seriously. can we talk about poor Lyle?  My heart aches for him.  He's clearly not the brightest bulb in the bunch and he's so adorable but so, so dim.  And that speech impediment....God he breaks my soul.

[saber5055]

You just can't ever take too many precautions, yet all the precautions imaginable sometimes fail to prevent an unimaginable horror.

 

 

This is true. If the killer really was going to kill her (I'm a poet and don't knowit!), he could have followed her into her apartment, turned on the lights, drawn the shades, THEN killed her. However, if that had happened, Brad would have done his part in seeing she made it inside her home and his commitment as her "date" would have been completed. I had a problem in that he didn't seem the least bit guilty about driving away before she even got to her building's front door.

 

I would have been overcome with guilt, and even felt guilty if I had waited until she got inside before I left, and she was murdered then.

 

But maybe that's just me. I think my friends are rude when they drop me at my car and speed off before I even have my car door opened.

 

Given she was the reason that Marty was back in her mother's life, I wondered if it could have been another suicide.

 

 

That it was suicide was implied by the interviews and the show.

I always wait for people but I don't think that makes him responsible given the size of the town.

 

 

Town size means nothing. It's just courtesy to see that your friend gets inside and turns on a light. I do it always, never with a thought that a murderer is waiting for him/her, it's just so I know that person got inside okay w/o tripping, passing out, having a heart attack and dying on the steps ... anything. It's like asking a friend to call when he/she gets home after leaving your house and driving at night on an icy road. Keeping track of people you care about means you care about them.

 

Brad was a cr*ppy boyfriend.

 

Which makes me think: Does anyone know if he and his wife ever divorced?

And nobody does stink eye quite like Keith. :)

 

 

His eye was especially stinky last night!

Edited September 26, 2015 by saber5055

[biakbiak]

That it was suicide was implied by the interviews and the show.

By her grandfather, others referred to it as an accident.

[ari333]

Bless his heart LYLE! Why did he need to be "outta the way" after the two murderers were helped by Joyce to escape?

Edited September 26, 2015 by ari333

[ChristmasJones]

I do not think Joyce lacked for training. I think her own internal personal issues caused her to dismiss her training. The internal drives/urges were stronger than the rational part of her brain that knew what she was doing was wrong. She knew it was all wrong. But in some compulsive fashion, she moved forward, as she crossed boundary after boundary with these men.

 

These interactions, and eventual relationships (one-sided as they were), met a need in Joyce. She liked and enjoyed what she was getting from these men. And that is what caused her to keep going forward. Yes, eventually there probably was some fear, and a growing realization about how deep in she was, and at that point, she froze. Its a common response to intense stress -fight, flee, or freeze.

 

But leading up to the time when she truly realized she was in too deep, and froze, she was enjoying the ego boost from these guys. She was enjoying being treated as if she was needed and wanted and powerful.

 

Was she too naive or unintelligent to consider that she was just a pawn? That seems very likely. Once the flattery and attention started, she would need to be able to step back and ask, why is this happening? in order to disengage and recognize that there was nothing sincere about these men's actions toward her. I am sure the police who interviewed her have a better sense of whether naivete or getting the ego strokes was the more prominent factor. From the short clips of interview we saw, I wouldn't be able to tell.

[applecrisp]

I don't know if that's normal, but it is kinda funny using a fictional television show for real-life reference!

 

A prison built near me has been empty for several years because of state funding, political tie ups, blah blah. It is now starting to be filled with prisoners, and the news says more than 1,100 civilian jobs will open up once the prison is going full steam. So I'd say yeah, lots of civilians are employed by the state prison system.

Saber do you live near  Thomson, Illinois?  Just curious.

[ari333]

So horrifying. Wow.

[saber5055]

Saber do you live near  Thomson, Illinois?  Just curious.

 

 

Busted!

[cooksdelight]

I'm not too sure about her being too naive or unintelligent. She knew right from wrong, but chose wrong to satisfy her own desires.

I feel icky just typing that....

[biakbiak]

I am also not sure how great her training was given how many different ways other employees had to ignore basic procedures for the relationship to progress and the plan to work.

[RedheadZombie]

By her grandfather, others referred to it as an accident.

But the aunt and grandma stressed over two hours that Marya couldn't handle her mother's death. I got the impression that the whole family feels it was a suicide. If they felt it was an accident, they wouldn't blame her father for her death - which they clearly did.

[jojomano]

I got the impression that they thought it was suicide. So many losses. Heartbreaking.

[punkypower]

Saw "A Killing in Cottonwood," and thought the second jury had it wrong. If Karen's family supported Mark, there's NO WAY he could be guilty, right?!? Was really bothered by it, so I turned to Google for any updates...

https://2paragraphs.com/2015/09/mark-duenas-attorney-says-he-talks-too-much/

PS...Make sure you check out the link where one of their sons is a known pedophile.

Now I just feel sick. :/

[jojomano]

I watched this episode tonight.

I read that article and really didn't quite understand...did what he was quoted as saying make him look guilty? What am I missing here?

[punkypower]

From what I got out of it, he was admitting that he said "I killed my wife" vs "I found my wife sick" on the 911 call. I could be misinterpreting, though!!

Also saw "Deadly Desire"--oh, Kandi, Kandi, Kandi. Felt so sorry for Ashlee. Both Kandi and Ron are STILL in denial--can'T believe Rib has nerve to maintain that Emmett shot him first and he doesn'T remember, but he must have shot him in head and heart after.

Here's a Facebook q&a with Ashlee:

https://www.facebook.com/datelinenbc/posts/10152249931461420

"Toxic Relations"-Between Paul and the wife/younger lover who killed the husband on an episode whose name I cannot remember (she gave him a bottle of nicotine-laced Snapped to soften him before the lover finished him off), where do these people come up with this???

Is it any wonder I'be been single since 2000?? Burrrrrrr...

[saber5055]

Did anyone else think the killer was wearing make up in the ending interview with Keith? His cheeks were bright red, like he was wearing foundation and blush. Or else he was highly agitated and blood pressure was up, or he has a case of rosacea. 

 

I don't know why I'm still thinking about this.

[glowlights]

During the first half of the show I was struck by the fact that Marya was being referred to so much but not interviewed, but contented myself with thinking they would show her at the end, all grown up and doing something really amazing. Then the uncle's suicide was revealed, and I was kinda bummed out but still looking forward to seeing what Marya has grown into. Then her death was revealed and I had to pause the show. Screw you, Dateline! :(

 

My husband immediately wondered if Marya's death was suicide. I wondered if she had been drinking, which could also explain the failure to fasten her seatbelt and losing control of the vehicle. Her mother used to leave her home alone in order to go out partying, it wouldn't surprise me if the alcohol pattern continued, especially on a night when she was emotional. But that was just a personal impression, I have no evidence obviously, and it doesn't change how sad her death was.

 

Brad's conduct suggested to me that he didn't think of Susie as anything more than a convenient fling. The way he said that he was tired and just wanted to get home... when you care about a woman, you wait the five seconds it takes to see her get in the door. It was dark out, she'd been drinking, and she wasn't fully dressed, for god's sake. All that crap about how they could have had a future together? Nah. He was just trying to make himself sound better, imo.

 

Saber, I'm pretty sure at some point in the show Brad's spouse was referred to as his ex-wife, but I was pretty tired and depressed so...

[saber5055]

Brad's conduct suggested to me that he didn't think of Susie as anything more than a convenient fling. The way he said that he was tired and just wanted to get home... when you care about a woman, you wait the five seconds it takes to see her get in the door. It was dark out, she'd been drinking, and she wasn't fully dressed, for god's sake. All that crap about how they could have had a future together? Nah. He was just trying to make himself sound better, imo.

 

 

I agree 100 percent. Maybe 100 and 20 percent. When he was asked if he missed Susie, or whatever, he worked hard to get out the "we could have had a future together." But his face said the opposite. In fact, to me his face said more like, "Susie who? Oh yeah, HER. Whatever."

 

The ex-husband, the guy with the horses and 'stashe ... at least he DID show he cared, especially when he started crying over his step daughter's death. 

[UsernameFatigue]

It's a sad commentary on the feminine psyche and how women in general are treated by society, and why. Sad but true.

 

It isn't limited to men treating women badly. There are many not so bright and/or not so good looking guys who are manipulated by women. There are people of both sexes who will use and abuse to get what they want. And really in a way Joyce has used Lyle - she was ready to leave him and possibly even have him murdered. Now that she needs him she is quite happy to have him in her life.

 

Regarding her 'training' from what I remember it just consisted of a course on what not to do with regards to the inmates. If there was proper training in place doubt she would have been hired in the first place. She didn't even finish high school (which at her age would have been in the early 80s) at a time when one expects that to be a minimum amount of schooling one would have. On the other hand there were people who were letting her in time after time without checking what she was bringing in as per the rules, so who knows how lax their training is even for guards.

Edited September 27, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[One Tough Cookie]

And .... POOR HUSBAND LYLE. Frankly I think at some point  she entertained the idea.... that she wanted her husband dead

 

 

I'm right there with ya.

[ari333]

She made horrible decisions, no doubt BUT..... but if the other employees had done their jobs (checking her bag or her person are simple things imo) then much of this would have been foiled. Why was she crying when what's his name was killed.... "Mr MAtt." gack.

[jenkait]

I get to this site and find, as always, so many things I thought of during the ep has been said by you guys!  Great minds think alike.

 

This is minor (especially considering all the tragedies in this case) but I was just stuck on the hours people were keeping.  Susie went out drinking with friends until 11pm...and THEN went on a date?  So she was out til 5:30am and so was Brad obviously, and Brad's ex was also out on a date until 5 something that night?  I was exhausted just listening to this.

 

Was that Marty's Mom on near the end, insisting Marty didn't do it?  After ALL that evidence?! Having her on bleating that Marty was innocent=total waste of time, she just sounded ridiculous.

[Monkeybball]

I do not believe for a second that the sexual contact was non-consensual.

[Monkeybball]

All I could think at the end was how can all this happen to one family? So much tragedy, it was heartbreaking. I actually got choked up when they talked about what happened to the daughter, I just couldn't believe it. I too had the thought about it potentially being a suicide but I doubt it, considering the next day was her graduation.

Overall depressing episode. EFF Marty. That guy is a creep and a loser and destroyed an entire family's lives forever.

[Monkeybball]

I had several most memorable, for different reasons. I'd say my number 1 most memorable for just how INSANE it all was is "The Carrollton Plot." I hated those damn daughters, hated the loser father who spent all that money on his mistress and a bunch of goofy methhrads fo get his wife of 30 years shot in the head! My God! And I couldn't believe she survived it! Got into the house, called 9-1-1, AND ANSWERED THE FRONT DOOR!!!! God Bless Nancy! I had a dream about the piney woods of east Texas the other night.

Russell Faria episode drives me absolutely nuts because I can't BELIEVE a prosecutor was allowed to pull all that bullshit. She straight up MADE UP A STORY that was entirely implausible and implicated 5 or so innocent people as being accomplices to murder WITHOUT EVER CHARGING THEM?! What?! And what a complete violation of Russell's 6th amendment rights to not allow his lawyer to adequately question Pam Hupp. She's going down, eventually.

Mystery on the Early shift because I still don't think David Dooley did it.

"Something Wicked" because it was the episode that really got me into Dateline. Poor Skylar and her poor family. Her parents broke my heart. Those bitches are evil and I hope they never get out, despite their "mercy" sentences.

[Miss chi chi]

This was a sad one. I'm so impressed by Val and her dedication to her in laws and Susie's children. She even had them in her wedding to her new husband. I also was surprised by how much late night action was going on in a small town. The town I grew up in was that size and you wouldn't see a soul out after 9 pm. I always get upset when a step father only raises his own kids and doesn't keep the stepchildren. I'd be surprised if marya didn't want to live with her little sisters.. It sounded like Val was actively working to try to keep the kids together as much as possible. Marya broke my heart. I can't believe the grandparents have survived all those losses. I thought the most telling fact of guilt was that Marty drove 6 hours round trip because he was so worried about Susie yet expected the police to believe that he left without even seeing her.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Miss chi chi

[tobeannounced]

She was sentenced today - 2 1/3 to 7 years.  She's so damn lucky they didn't kill, rape, or maim anyone.  

[saber5055]

I heard she got seven years. The news clip showed her bawling her eyes out and the judge pretty much saying she was full of b.s. The news clip also showed husband Lyle sitting in the gallery, watching.

[walnutqueen]

I'd imagine no matter how much or little time she does in prison, it will not be a pleasant experience, even if she's isolated from the general population.  :-D

 

Karma's a bitch, Bitch!

[saber5055]

I too had the thought about it potentially being a suicide but I doubt it, considering the next day was her graduation.

 

 

It was mentioned than Marya was heartbroken that her mom would not be at her graduation. An accident is easier for people to deal with than a suicide.

[saber5055]

Maybe there will be a couple of male guards she can sweet talk into bringing her cookies and brownies, and some escape tools in raw hamburger?

[PepperMonkey]

I still can't believe that Brad guy let her "stumble" across the street with her bra over her arm at 5 o'clock in the morning. He had time to "neck" or "make out" with her for a couple hours, but couldn't walk her to the door??? I don't care how small or crime-free the town is; that's just common courtesy, especially towards someone for whom you allegedly CARE and want a future??? He's a dick.

 

And then, I have to take up just a bit for the second ex-husband, father of the two youngest girls, regarding custody of the two older kids who weren't his biologically: don't forget he wasn't their real father AND they were all still suspecting that he might have had something to do with the murder of the mom. They couldn't keep the two youngest from him, because they were his, but I keep thinking if the police had cleared him sooner, they would have had a much closer relationship with him. I also believe he was truly torn up over the death of Marya which says to me he really cared about the two older children. I don't know if the son has anything to do with him now, but I hope so.

 

I was sad about the brother killing himself, but I was heartbroken over what happened to Marya. It sounds like she had a bright future and I sincerely hope she didn't take her own life. Her grandfather seemed to be seriously implying though, when he mentioned she always wore her seatbelt and didn't have it on that time, and that there were no braking or skid marks or anything like that. I think he believes that asshole that killed his daughter also indirectly killed his son and granddaughter. My heart was breaking for all of them who were the collateral damage of this tragedy.

Edited September 29, 2015 by PepperMonkey

[cooksdelight]

I've never wished anyone ill will while in prison, but I hope she gets a daily dose of bad medicine in there. And I'm glad the judge didn't buy her crying jag.

[gaPeach]

I too was surprised at how many of them seemed to do all nighters without a second thought.  I don't think I even did that in my younger years...oh hell yes I did.  But I was not married or leaving kids home to fend for themselves.

 

And when they showed police photos of her apartment, what a mess!  I know, that is petty but I am just saying.

 

I think even if the boyfriend did walk her to the door the ex would have waited until she was in her apartment and knocked on the door.  I have no doubt she would have let him in or at least talked to at the door where as at the point he would have forced his way in.  If he watched her make out/have sex in car with other guy nothing would have stopped him from killing her.  And who makes out in a car at their age anyway?  Don't they have a Motel 6 to go to?  They went to the lake in the middle of the night to talk?  Ew bugs and creepy crawlers all over the place.  No way would I get down to it at the lake at night.

 

So sad for the entire family.  That one night changed their lives forever and they lost 3 family members because of it.  I don't know why she lead the ex husband on?  At that point in their lives she did not have to act like they were a couple again and just had sex for old times sake.  Or why do it at all? 

[cooksdelight]

I've seen people who had no business being together do crazy things. It happens. And there are usually kids who get caught in the crossfire, and suffer the worst.