All Episodes Discussion

[MsJamieDornan]

3 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

Also struck me as off that a doctor would need to rely on the 911 dispatcher for CPR instructions.

That was very strange.

 

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

All I could think of about was how unlikeable these people are.  The wife is sending topless photos to people on Patrick.net (never heard of the place)?  Kind of terrible. Husband hitting up random people on Facebook.  Kinda worse.

I got a really good laugh out of the bit during the episode where the detectives interviewed that woman who started talking with the doctor, and then they met up in the hopes of haivng a romantic encounter, and she was going on about how he had no game. She talked at one point about how he talked about how his wife was sending photos to other people, and she was like, "I didn't think she could do that, though, she seemed like a nice woman."

And I'm sitting here thinking, "....as opposed to you, I guess, a woman who's going to meet up with this doctor to have a romantici encounter?" :p. Just, her attitude about the idea of his wife having an affair while she's about to potentially start up one with him amused me :p. 

The story from the woman who met with him for fertility treatments that went awry was pretty unsetlling. Especially when she talked about how angry he started getting with her when she was taking issue with his treatments. 

5 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

I also think he did some mental manipulation with the kids. I suspect they probably originally knew more or could have recollected more important details, but he played with their heads and kept them from talking about their mother. Probably didn't get them any therapy either..

Was it just me who found it a bit odd that his daughter was in the same room with him the night his wife died? 

My mom was struck by the way he kept going on about how he thought any noise would've just been the kids, 'cause she was like, "...except one of your kids was in the room with you that night, so you would've been aware if she'd gotten up and gone somewhere." Plus, you live with people long enough, you become familiar with their footsteps. He would've been able to tell the difference between his kids getting up and wandering around versus his wife getting up and wandering around. 

But yeah, agreed with everyone else on the verdict. They had a fight that, as his daughter herself noted, got pretty heated, and it ended with him killing her. 

Edited May 4 by Annber03

[UsernameFatigue]

I have no doubt whatsoever that the doctor murdered his wife.  Nothing whatsoever to me points to a fall down the stairs.

The good doctor tried to make it look like a fall, complete with putting Susann's purse and an empty pill bottle at the bottom of the stairs. But Susann had a therapeutic amount of pain killer in her system, not enough to cause her to fall. And why would she have her purse and an empty pill bottle with her? Also why would she be wearing clunky dress shoes in the middle of the night, to walk from an upstairs bedroom to downstairs? Personally I would be either barefoot, in socks or slippers. Certainly not barefoot but wearing clunky dress shoes, in the middle of the night. And certainly if I felt unsteady, I wouldn't be wearing a shoe with a heel. In the middle of the freaking night.  I also think the pot at the bottom of the stairs was staged. 

Why would Susann have Scott's blood under her fingernails, if she fell down the stairs? Or be wearing a scarf with Scott's blood on it? Not to mention all the blood and hair in the bedroom? Also Scott wearing the beanie the whole day until he was asked to remove it for pictures. He claimed that he got the gash on his upper forehead from working on a car with his son a few days earlier. But it was obvious that the wound was fresh, and filled with dried blood. Not believable that any person, let alone a doctor, would not clean and dress a wound when it happened, not leave it for days afterwards uncleaned and undressed, and cover it with a beanie.

I wish the prosecutors had asked the son, when he changed his story to not hearing his parents fight in the middle of the night, why he chose then to sleep with his sister in his parents' bedroom? (He told the police originally it was because of the noise of hearing his parents fight). Obviously he was lying, and did not care that he was under oath. 

So many reasons why I think the dr is guilty. I would have had no qualms about convicting him, but would have chosen second degree as well.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4 by UsernameFatigue

[Annber03]

28 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

That was very strange.

Yeah, my mom and I found that really weird as well. I could perhaps, on a general level, understand someone being so panicked in a moment like that, to where their mind goes blank on that stuff, even when they've been trained in it, but he clearly wasn't sounding panicked on the phone and seemed very calm and controlled, so .. 

Edited May 4 by Annber03

[UsernameFatigue]

One thing I am curious about. When Keith was talking about how a friend of the family took the kids in after Scott was arrested, Keith made an aside comment that the woman was adopted as well. As well as who? It was never mentioned (at least that I heard) that Susann was adopted. Does that mean that the twins were not Susann's biologically? They made it sound like she had them through IVF, but then who was Keith referring to as being adopted? 

[UsernameFatigue]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

I also wonder, if Scott actually murdered her then staged the fall and went back to sleep upstairs why he didn't clean up the crime scene with all the blood and hair! And there's that spaghetti pot, it does make it seem like she either went down the stairs with the pot (in case she got sick) or else went downstairs to fetch the pot to take back upstairs with her and fell on her way back up. If Scott put that there to stage the scene, again I go back to wondering why he didn't do a better job cleaning up. You'd have to think he was a criminal mastermind and a blithering idiot at the same time.

 

I wonder if the reason Scott didn't clean up the bedroom was because of the two kids in the master bedroom? The fight happened in the daughter's bedroom, and then at some point he took Susann downstairs and staged the scene. To also spend time cleaning up the bedroom would have taken awhile (and I don't think he could have done much with the curtains) would have kept him out of the master bedroom. After all, his story was that he was in the master and heard noises but didn't think anything of it. He couldn't be away for too long and have the kids either hear him staging the scene, or cleaning up and not be in the master bedroom where he was supposed to be.

I don't think he was a criminal mastermind at all. Quite the opposite. 

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

One thing I am curious about. When Keith was talking about how a friend of the family took the kids in after Scott was arrested, Keith made an aside comment that the woman was adopted as well. As well as who? It was never mentioned (at least that I heard) that Susann was adopted. Does that mean that the twins were not Susann's biologically? They made it sound like she had them through IVF, but then who was Keith referring to as being adopted? 

I don't think anyone else was adopted.  I think they mentioned her adoption as a reason why she took the kids in.  As in a 'paying it forward' kind of thing by taking in orphans and making them part of the family.

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I don't think he was a criminal mastermind at all. Quite the opposite. 

Nope. It had all the earmarks of an unpremeditated crime and then someone trying to do his best to make it look like an accident or something other than what it was.  But that's hard to do after-the-fact.

Edited May 4 by Irlandesa

[UsernameFatigue]

32 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I think anyone else was adopted.  I think they mentioned her adoption as a reason why she took the kids in.  As in a 'paying it forward' kind of thing by taking in orphans and making them part of the family.

Nope. It had all the earmarks of an unpremeditated crime and then someone trying to do his best to make it look like an accident or something other than what it was.  But that's hard to do after-the-fact.

You are likely right as far as the family friend goes. I went back to that segment, it was at the 1.26 mark, and it was actually Susann's mother who said that the family friend herself had been adopted as a child. This was when the friend first took the kids in when the dad was arrested. Still odd how the grandma phrased it. 

And of course the kids weren't actually orphans, either when their father was arrested or convicted. When the daughter asked the judge for leniency so that her father could possibly some day walk her down the isle, and referred to herself as an orphan, I thought "You aren't one, but the fact that you feel like one is 100 percent due to your father's actions". I am always amazed when kids, especially at the age they are now, take the side of the convicted parent in the face of overwhelming evidence. 

Edited May 4 by UsernameFatigue

[TVbitch]

I'm shocked it took that long to arrest him after the coroner determined she was murdered. I mean, he was the only one there! His blood was under her nails! She had defensive wounds! Even his lawyer admits she was strangled (just maybe not to death and/or by the dog).

It would have even been a stronger case if they had tried it earlier, when the son might still have been willing to tell the truth. Letting the kids spend ages 12-19 with their dad was, I'm sure, very detrimental to them in the long run . Of course they are going to really bond with him after what they went through. 

Also, the shirt he claimed had chocolate milk on it, but it was blood. Um, was he "repairing that screen" or "fixing that car" in the middle of the night? Did he just decide to keep wearing a bloody shirt for days or something? Did he just leave blood all over his daughters curtains, and not bother to clean it up? I'm quite sure the mother would have taken those down in two seconds after going in there if it had been done earlier. No way would a 12 year old girl be in that room with bloody curtains. Ridiculous!  

[UsernameFatigue]

40 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I'm shocked it took that long to arrest him after the coroner determined she was murdered. I mean, he was the only one there! His blood was under her nails! She had defensive wounds! Even his lawyer admits she was strangled (just maybe not to death and/or by the dog).

It would have even been a stronger case if they had tried it earlier, when the son might still have been willing to tell the truth. Letting the kids spend ages 12-19 with their dad was, I'm sure, very detrimental to them in the long run . Of course they are going to really bond with him after what they went through. 

Also, the shirt he claimed had chocolate milk on it, but it was blood. Um, was he "repairing that screen" or "fixing that car" in the middle of the night? Did he just decide to keep wearing a bloody shirt for days or something? Did he just leave blood all over his daughters curtains, and not bother to clean it up? I'm quite sure the mother would have taken those down in two seconds after going in there if it had been done earlier. No way would a 12 year old girl be in that room with bloody curtains. Ridiculous!  

It took a year for the toxicology reports to come back (why???) and then another year for Scott to be arrested. They did say that while he was out on bond awaiting trial, the kids were not allowed to live with him so stayed with that family friend. Though I would imagine they were allowed to see him.

He was arrested in 2018, two years after the murder. So why did it take five years from his arrest to actually go to trial? I know Covid happened in early 2020 so that may have caused a back log, but I agree that the delay could have played in his favour where the kids were concerned. Thank goodness the police still had the original interviews, including the daughter saying that there was no blood on the curtains before her mother ended up at the bottom of the stairs (to pharphrase).They never did say though why the 5 year delay in the trail starting. 

[mbgriffith1]

Did anyone else find it insanely bizarre that Susanne's mother just went to bed after hearing that her daughter was dead and then only called Scott back after getting a good night's sleep?  I couldn't get over that.

[MsJamieDornan]

51 minutes ago, mbgriffith1 said:

Did anyone else find it insanely bizarre that Susanne's mother just went to bed after hearing that her daughter was dead and then only called Scott back after getting a good night's sleep?  I couldn't get over that.

Very odd.

Also strange was that none of her relatives could take the kids ? They had to go live with a friend ?

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Very odd.

Also strange was that none of her relatives could take the kids ? They had to go live with a friend ?

I wondered if it was because the kids were 14, so may have had a say in where they went and did not want to leave their friends or father (even though they could not live with him). Also, they saw their maternal grandmother (and presumably uncles etc) in the two years after their mother died, but it doesn't sound like they saw them after their dad was arrested. So it may be that they believed in their father's innocence so did not want to live with relatives who did not. 

Edited May 5 by UsernameFatigue

[iMonrey]

18 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Also, the shirt he claimed had chocolate milk on it, but it was blood. Um, was he "repairing that screen" or "fixing that car" in the middle of the night? Did he just decide to keep wearing a bloody shirt for days or something? Did he just leave blood all over his daughters curtains, and not bother to clean it up? I'm quite sure the mother would have taken those down in two seconds after going in there if it had been done earlier. No way would a 12 year old girl be in that room with bloody curtains. Ridiculous!  

It's possible the blood spatter on his shirt happened when he was performing CPR on her, and he didn't realize it at the time. 

I'm still not convinced he "staged" the scene. It doesn't make any sense to do that then not clean up the evidence in the bedroom. Especially with two kids in the house, they could easily have come downstairs and discovered him at any moment. 

I think it's more likely the fight happened upstairs, she ran off and fell down the stairs and he just left here there. 

[Peanut6711]

16 hours ago, mbgriffith1 said:

Did anyone else find it insanely bizarre that Susanne's mother just went to bed after hearing that her daughter was dead and then only called Scott back after getting a good night's sleep?  I couldn't get over that.

Yeah, I wondered if maybe she'd been drinking or took her own drowsy medicine before bed that made her loopy. 

 

20 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Was it just me who found it a bit odd that his daughter was in the same room with him the night his wife died? 

I too wanted more background on that. I didn't understand why she inconvenienced the daughter by taking her room.  I could never take over my daughter's bedroom with a pot to puke in (gross) at that! Talk about invading someone else's space and comfort zone.  They said something about it being dark, but it clearly didn't have closed black-out curtains.  And they noted she was taking work calls and the daughter was charging her tablet for her.  That didn't exactly line up with her feeling so awful. Plus she was still wearing a scarf and shoes. Not exactly indicative of laying down to ease a migraine.  It was a 4-bedroom house and most likely the master had an attached bath. So why in the world did she make the daughter sleep with her dad, yet we only got police audio questioning how often the girl slept with her brother. 

[pdlinda]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think it's more likely the fight happened upstairs, she ran off and fell down the stairs and he just left here there.

The original prosecutor explained that Suzanne's injuries were not consistent with her falling down the stairs. 

She said the blood "lividity" (pooling of blood that changes into a blue color after death) didn't match that theory of the crime.

The thing that STUNNED ME was that Dr. Sills agreed to be interviewed by the police on numerous occasions WITHOUT REQUESTING A LAWYER?? HUH? Also, that he didn't know how to do CPR "on the spot" and waited until the 911 operator explained how to do it. 

Last, the woman who brought a complaint about his mishandling of her IVF case when she saw a menacing, scary side to his personality wasn't a witness at the trial.

The Dr. may have had some book smarts but he emerged as a complete DOOFUS in handling real-life situations.  I would say, most especially, that he was STUPID ENOUGH to believe he could get away with murdering his wife!

IMO, he will spend no more than 10 years in prison and that's if his appeal isn't won before that time on some legal technicality.  Killing a middle-aged spouse in a manner that's not especially heinous (and has other theories of how it happened) doesn't carry that much stigma and/or legal consequence in our society today, UNFORTUNATELY!!

[Madding crowd]

For me it was the clunky shoes that I just couldn’t understand. I have migraines and the last thing in the world I would do is put on shoes with a heel to go downstairs. And the blood on the daughters curtains was kind of a lot. The doctor had weird bulging eyes in every picture and resembled the old comedian Marty Feldman. The victim seemed very attractive.

[GiandujaPie]

Lots of weird things about Dr Sills and Susann. First of all, yes I agree it was creepy that she was originally a patient of his with her first husband. Makes me think that her first husband wasn't as well off as Dr Sills and she decided to trade up her lifestyle because he certainly wasn't physically attractive at all, and her family admitted he was an odd duck and socially awkward, as well as that woman he tried to have an affair with. Seems like he benefitted from a reputation as a well-known and successful doctor with money, despite any shortcomings in the physical attributes department. 

If Susann was walking around the house carrying a large steel pot and she dropped it, there is no way that would not have made a large enough sound that would have woken up everyone in the house. 

[iMonrey]

19 hours ago, pdlinda said:

The original prosecutor explained that Suzanne's injuries were not consistent with her falling down the stairs. 

She said the blood "lividity" (pooling of blood that changes into a blue color after death) didn't match that theory of the crime.

See my original post. The 911 operator told Scott to turn her over onto her back to do CPR. The daughter said she was making some noise so she was still alive. That would explain the blood pooling in her back. Also, it's possible a lot of the bruising is a result of how the corpse is handled. 

There also seemed to be a disagreement over whether both Scott and Susann's blood was found in the bedroom or just Scott's. The prosecution said the former, the defense said the latter. If I were on the jury I wouldn't know which to believe.

[TVbitch]

It's plausible that they argued in the room, he started to beat her up and tried to strangle her with her scarf, she scratched back and only he got bloody, she tried to run away, and maybe fell down the stairs in her terror (or he caught up to her and pushed her). 

Maybe he tried to finish strangling her at the bottom of the stairs but he either thought she was dead but wasn't, or it was taking too long and things had been noisy so he went back to the room. 

The only weird thing with this scenario is that if she was fleeing him why would she bother to take her pot, and I do agree if she fell down the stairs with that pot onto the tile floor, that would have been a hella racket. 

[iMonrey]

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think he did it. I'm just saying, if I were the defense attorney, I could poke a lot of holes in the prosecution's case, because so much of it is pure speculation, and there seems to be a lot of contradictory "expert" testimony. And I find the whole idea that Scott staged the scene particularly implausible given that both children were at home at the time. I think there was a fall down the stairs - I just don't think that's all the happened.

[LuvMyShows]

On 5/4/2024 at 6:25 PM, TVbitch said:

Also, the shirt he claimed had chocolate milk on it, but it was blood. Um, was he "repairing that screen" or "fixing that car" in the middle of the night? Did he just decide to keep wearing a bloody shirt for days or something? Did he just leave blood all over his daughters curtains, and not bother to clean it up? I'm quite sure the mother would have taken those down in two seconds after going in there if it had been done earlier. No way would a 12 year old girl be in that room with bloody curtains. Ridiculous!  

Yes to all of this! Plus given that the daughter said the blood hadn't been there before, I was confused as to why this days-ago-possibility even became a defensible "thing".  But more confusingly, I could swear that at one point they said the police hadn't noticed the blood when they went into the room originally, so I was expecting when we saw the photos that it would be small spots, but the spots were huge, so how on earth were they missed the first time?

On 5/4/2024 at 4:40 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

The good doctor tried to make it look like a fall, complete with putting Susann's purse and an empty pill bottle at the bottom of the stairs. But Susann had a therapeutic amount of pain killer in her system, not enough to cause her to fall. And why would she have her purse and an empty pill bottle with her? Also why would she be wearing clunky dress shoes in the middle of the night, to walk from an upstairs bedroom to downstairs? Personally I would be either barefoot, in socks or slippers. Certainly not barefoot but wearing clunky dress shoes, in the middle of the night. And certainly if I felt unsteady, I wouldn't be wearing a shoe with a heel. In the middle of the freaking night.  I also think the pot at the bottom of the stairs was staged. 

Why would Susann have Scott's blood under her fingernails, if she fell down the stairs? Or be wearing a scarf with Scott's blood on it?

This is a headscratcher. Going from the "evidence", we are to believe that a woman in a bedtime situation, with a tenuous head situation, would come downstairs holding an empty pill bottle, a purse, and a big pan, wearing a scarf around her neck and clunky dress shoes?  That soo doesn't make sense! (OTOH, it also didn't make sense that this person with such a serious migraine that she needs to sleep in her daughter's darkened room, is in there on her computer sending emails, which is what I thought they said was discovered that she had done.)

On 5/4/2024 at 1:34 PM, Irlandesa said:

All I could think of about was how unlikeable these people are.  The wife is sending topless photos to people on Patrick.net (never heard of the place)? 

I had been confused by that. Who did she lose a bet to, that she had to post the topless picture? Was it her husband? If so, what kind of a whackadoodle husband wants his wife to post a topless picture of herself? And if it wasn't her husband, why on earth is she making bets with other people that involve being topless?!

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I had been confused by that. Who did she lose a bet to, that she had to post the topless picture? Was it her husband? If so, what kind of a whackadoodle husband wants his wife to post a topless picture of herself? And if it wasn't her husband, why on earth is she making bets with other people that involve being topless?!

I think it was another poster on the board.  I don't know if she posted it on the public board or sent via a message.

[ButterQueen]

On 5/9/2024 at 3:23 PM, Irlandesa said:

I think it was another poster on the board.  I don't know if she posted it on the public board or sent via a message.

I believe it was another poster and it was posted on the board.

With Dateline trying out new correspondents, I’m worried Keith is retiring.  So far, none have impressed me.  I can’t even stay interested in the show tonight.  I hate change.  UGH

[TVbitch]

I also lost interest. New correspondent was pretty nondescript, so it did cause a bit of somnolence. Didn't help that we knew the husband was behind it in the first five seconds, and they would be dragging that out for two hours. Too bad Tiffany gave it another try with him. 

[Peanut6711]

On 5/9/2024 at 11:17 AM, LuvMyShows said:

I had been confused by that. Who did she lose a bet to, that she had to post the topless picture? Was it her husband? If so, what kind of a whackadoodle husband wants his wife to post a topless picture of herself? And if it wasn't her husband, why on earth is she making bets with other people that involve being topless?!

I got the impression that Suzann liked attention. The topless photo, the Survivor audition, stunt girl cheerleader in high school. I have a feeling her husband was way more put out seeing that topless photo on the internet than Suzann ever was taking and posting it. 

 

5/10 "Sound and Furry"

16 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

With Dateline trying out new correspondents, I’m worried Keith is retiring. 

Oh I hope not! Keith is my fav.  I'll take the woman last night over Andrea. No one grates my nerves like she does.  My only real critique about last night's is that it was billed like it was going to be something more than the typical husband murders wife scenario. At one point she even narrated that the club/DJ scene was "about to give up its secrets."  But that was a red herring.  This guy would have murdered his wife no matter what job he had and probably his co-worker too if it he got him a promotion. While the story was informative--I didn't realize Atlanta's strip club scene was so important to the music industry; but then I'm a rock girl at heart and have never followed rap/dance music. 

[Annber03]

I remember seeing the story covered on last night's "Dateline" on some other show recently. So I already knew where it'd go from that alone :p.

I feel so bad for those poor children. The whole thing with the two year old curling up by his mom...poor baby :(. 

[Irlandesa]

I think it's so sad when the kids get raised by relatives of the murderer and they lose contact with the victim's family. 

I don't mind the new correspondents.  Change is hard to adjust to but I think the other woman who is new did better on her second episode than she did on her first.  The truth is, even with Keith the dialogue feels pretty inane if you really listen to it.  He just happens to have a great voice.

I do think the episode would have been a little more interesting if they had managed to actually tie back the murder of the DJ to the husband who killed his wife. 

I was confused during this episode, though.  I kept wondering if Onyx was just a club or if it was a strip club or if he worked at a regular club and a strip club.  It looks like it was a strip club and those are influential in the Atlanta hip hop scene.  You live and you learn...

One thing I think one of the witnesses did so well at painting a portrait of the hubby before actually painting the portrait was when the house mom compared the murdered DJ to the killer and how the murdered DJ was the real deal while the hubby DJ was basically a poseur.

[ButterQueen]

8 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I also lost interest. New correspondent was pretty nondescript, so it did cause a bit of somnolence. Didn't help that we knew the husband was behind it in the first five seconds, and they would be dragging that out for two hours. Too bad Tiffany gave it another try with him. 

Maybe it was just me, but the poor murdered wife got totally lost in the battle of the DJ’s.

I’ll take Andrea, and her jewelry, over this mess any day..  

[badgerwoman]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think it's so sad when the kids get raised by relatives of the murderer and they lose contact with the victim's family. 

It bugs me, too, that so many of those children end up with the murderer's family.  Not always though - the Maddie Kingsbury case (on 48 hours but happened near where I grew up) is an exception - someone in her family has the kids.  I wonder if it helped she and her boyfriend weren't married.

[Medicine Crow]

3 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

Maybe it was just me, but the poor murdered wife got totally lost in the battle of the DJ’s.

I’ll take Andrea, and her jewelry, over this mess any day..  

I've always liked Stephanie Gosk, so I enjoyed her on this show.  (Much more than just tolerating Andrea.)

[Ohmo]

On 5/4/2024 at 4:47 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

One thing I am curious about. When Keith was talking about how a friend of the family took the kids in after Scott was arrested, Keith made an aside comment that the woman was adopted as well.

I took Keith as meaning that the family friend was adopted, so she had some experience with families with non-traditional dynamics---meaning Scott was a fertility doctor, the twins were conceived using fertility procedures, etc. i don't think Keith was referring to adoption as much as he was referring to modern families are being created in a myriad of different ways.

BTW, 48 Hours will be profiling this case next week.

[UsernameFatigue]

5 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

Maybe it was just me, but the poor murdered wife got totally lost in the battle of the DJ’s.

I’ll take Andrea, and her jewelry, over this mess any day..  

That's two hours of my life that I will never get back. Ugh.

It was obvious from the first few minutes that the guy killed his wife. He arrived at his house and casually got out of the car, no hurry at all to check on his wife and children. Then he left his son in bed with his wife, the police had to remove the poor kid from his dead mother's bed?  WTF?? 

The whole red herring of the club scene, strip clubs, rap, DJs etc. dragged on way too long. It was not the least bit interesting. 

I wasn't a fan of the correspondent. I found her very chirpy. And when she said to the cop early on that the shooter had to be cold blooded (to paraphrase) to shoot someone in the eye, I wondered "How do you know that person didn't die, or wasn't rendered unconscious from the gunshot to the chest?". The shot to the eye could have been for effect or to make sure Tiffany was dead, doesn't mean she knew it was coming (hopefully she didn't).

In any case, I also thought the presentation of the case was a mess. Not sure how much the correspondent was to blame, bad editing, whatever. Just way more drawn out than even the most annoyingly drawn out Dateline. 

[Ohmo]

5 hours ago, badgerwoman said:

It bugs me, too, that so many of those children end up with the murderer's family.

In this case, I can understand why the kids went to live with Andre's mother.  Tiffany's mother was dead, and we didn't hear anything about siblings.  We met her father, but just from his interview, he didn't seem like he'd be able to take on 2 young children.  We met several of Tiffany's friends, but they weren't her biological relatives.  Andre's mother has a biological tie to the kids.

I must be dumb because y'all figured Andre was involved early on.  I was hoping he was gonna be a good guy, but alas no.

I agree with the detective that Andre and his friend killed the other DJ.  It's certainly possible, particularly since Andre wanted the other DJ's prime shifts.

[UsernameFatigue]

1 minute ago, Ohmo said:

 

I must be dumb because y'all figured Andre was involved early on.  I was hoping he was gonna be a good guy, but alas no.

 

The other dead giveaway (no pun intended) was that Andre himself was not interviewed. Pretty much a Dateline clue that no spouse interview=guilty spouse. 

The kid being left with his mother was pretty much it for me. The police said when they found him he was crying hysterically beside his mother. Did Andre not hear his son crying? Did he not wonder if his daughter was OK? Nope, because he knew the kids were OK (or as OK as one could be, wandering around trying to wake up his dead mother and get someone to help him. At two years of age). 

I missed the part where they said Andre's mother was raising the kids. I certainly hope she does not let them have a relationship with him. 

[TaxNerd]

6 hours ago, Ohmo said:

In this case, I can understand why the kids went to live with Andre's mother.  

I thought the update was they hadn't had contact with the Mother's family in many years, not just they went with the father's family? If so, that's a totally different situation.

[A.Ham]

On 5/5/2024 at 1:36 PM, Peanut6711 said:

I didn't understand why she inconvenienced the daughter by taking her room. 

Right? At some point I heard that there were 4 bedrooms upstairs, no reason to inconvenience anyone unless one of those was being used for another purpose. A 12 year old sleeping in the same bed as dad though? Creepy no matter how you slice it.

[Ohmo]

7 hours ago, TaxNerd said:

I thought the update was they hadn't had contact with the Mother's family in many years, not just they went with the father's family? If so, that's a totally different situation.

No, you're right that the kids haven't had contact with Tiffany's family (which is NOT ideal).  However, what I meant was, at the time of the crime, there didn't seem to be a lot of good options.  Tiffany's mother was dead.  If she had been alive, I think that might have changed things. 

We didn't hear anything about siblings, and Tiffany's father didn't seem to be in a position to care for two small children. Even though Andre's mother has apparently kept the children away from Tiffany's family, I understand why the court likely ruled as it did.  Courts are going to favor biological ties over any friend of Tiffany's.

I wonder if Tiffany's father lives in a state where he could get visitation rights as the other grandparent?

[Realitystarr]

I for one thought it was  creepy that a teenage girl would  share the room with dad no matter how many bedrooms they had in that house and worse that they have  four bedrooms.

Everyone was weird in this one, besides their sleeping arrangement the  grandmother is a very strange bird claiming  the fact her daughter never fell down in her life because she's an ex cheerleader was one of the many odd things she said in her interviews.

[JudyObscure]

On 5/12/2024 at 4:08 PM, Ohmo said:

Even though Andre's mother has apparently kept the children away from Tiffany's family, I understand why the court likely ruled as it did.  Courts are going to favor biological ties over any friend of Tiffany's.

I know courts favor the biological parents, but the court also knows Andre's mother raised a murderer.  Andre may just be a bad seed but it still doesn't recommend his mother's parenting skills.

I can't quite get over that whole sordid scene of strip club and dance club combined, people handing DJ's stacks of money to play their CD's. 

Andre and Adrian are a team straight from Hell. They decided to murder this kind young woman who had cooked holiday meals for both of them and bore Andre's children and been a loving wife to him all those years.

And why?  I don't understand the motive.  She was going to keep the house but evidently he couldn't keep up the mortgage payments without her salary.  How could he be in debt and unable to pay his bills if he was being handed stacks of cash every night of the week? Who did he think would care for the children that he apparently had no interest in? He knew his children were in the house with their mother whose face had been shot off and he just left them there.

[JudyObscure]

I just searched on the Onyx in Atlanta and saw that it was burglarized a week ago and the thieves got $250,000 from the safe.  The club may not appreciate  all the advertising they got from Dateline.

[12catcrazy]

9 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I know courts favor the biological parents, but the court also knows Andre's mother raised a murderer.  Andre may just be a bad seed but it still doesn't recommend his mother's parenting skills.

I can't quite get over that whole sordid scene of strip club and dance club combined, people handing DJ's stacks of money to play their CD's. 

Andre and Adrian are a team straight from Hell. They decided to murder this kind young woman who had cooked holiday meals for both of them and bore Andre's children and been a loving wife to him all those years.

And why?  I don't understand the motive.  She was going to keep the house but evidently he couldn't keep up the mortgage payments without her salary.  How could he be in debt and unable to pay his bills if he was being handed stacks of cash every night of the week? Who did he think would care for the children that he apparently had no interest in? He knew his children were in the house with their mother whose face had been shot off and he just left them there.

Since the grandmother with custody seems to be keeping the children away from their murdered mother's family, she is probably also brainwashing them that her darling son is innocent of any murder or wrongdoing.   These kids are going to grow up believing that their father has been unjustly accused of murder and that "the system" denied them their father.

If I'm remembering correctly, Tiffany was going to give her husband the house but that she was really the family breadwinner and he couldn't pay his bills without her.  Was there any life insurance involved?  

And about the sordid strip club scene - call me old and out of touch but I find that American culture has degraded to where it seems as if everything is for the lowest common denominator.   It really hit me over the head a few years ago when the Grammy awards had a couple of female singing (?) stars (one of whom was an ex-stripper) perform a song that made me do a double-take in how lewd both the performance and the song were.   Yeah, and ok, people were clutching their pearls over Elvis Presley in 1957 and there have been older generations saying that the world was going to hell in a hand basket since forever, but man, what was considered to be "the gutter" when I was young seems to be  what some people aspire to today. 

[Peanut6711]

On 5/12/2024 at 2:46 PM, A.Ham said:

Right? At some point I heard that there were 4 bedrooms upstairs, no reason to inconvenience anyone unless one of those was being used for another purpose. A 12 year old sleeping in the same bed as dad though? Creepy no matter how you slice it.

100%  And the police kept asking her how often she slept with her brother! Like he only came over because the parent's fighting woke him up, but she'd been in bed with daddy the whole time before that (well except for when he was murdering their mom) and other nights as well from the sound of it   I sure hope the police followed up more about how often she shared a bed with her father and we just didn't get that audio. 

[Annber03]

Yeah, that part of that story had me wondering for a brief time if that story was going to take another dark turn. I'm glad I'm not the only one who had a moment of, "Hm. That's...odd." about that detail. 

[Ohmo]

On 5/14/2024 at 7:04 AM, JudyObscure said:

know courts favor the biological parents, but the court also knows Andre's mother raised a murderer.  Andre may just be a bad seed but it still doesn't recommend his mother's parenting skills.

If the two children went into the foster care system instead of to Andre's mother, they would probably be separated from each other.  I agree that it's very possible that she's telling them things that are in support of their father, but they're not in a bureaucratic foster care system where they could be separately living with strangers.

[MsJamieDornan]

On 5/14/2024 at 4:35 AM, Realitystarr said:

Everyone was weird in this one, besides their sleeping arrangement the  grandmother is a very strange bird claiming  the fact her daughter never fell down in her life because she's an ex cheerleader was one of the many odd things she said in her interviews

And several people said the same thing. That struck me as so odd. How many people can say that they have NEVER fallen down in their life.  

[iMonrey]

The Girl with the Hibiscus Tattoo: this was odd. They must have covered this before, because some of Keith's interviews were 20 years old. I could tell right away he looked visibly younger in his interviews with the mother and one of the victims. Yet some of the other interviews were more recent. I'm assuming they covered this case back when Victor was first convicted, and are picking it back up now because he came up for parole.

When they showed clips of Cathy DeBuono in various acting roles, I immediately recognized her from Star Trek DS9. I think she was one of the Dabo girls at Quark's bar. 

[Peanut6711]

15 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The Girl with the Hibiscus Tattoo: this was odd. They must have covered this before, because some of Keith's interviews were 20 years old. I could tell right away he looked visibly younger in his interviews with the mother and one of the victims. Yet some of the other interviews were more recent. I'm assuming they covered this case back when Victor was first convicted, and are picking it back up now because he came up for parole.

Agree, it was edited/spliced odd. My daughter was watching with me and thought a lot of it was taken from the podcast they referenced. That blurred restaurant background was giving me a headache looking at my TV screen. I also noticed the segments were short and there seemed to be a ton of commercials.  And holy repetitive with the constant reciting of the clothes inventory. Stiletto heels, nylon stockings, short black mini-skirt, men's white dress shirt, and he'd provide the tie. Let's all say it together again!  🙄

Interesting case/story though. Kudos to the women who helped put him behind bars and are still working to keep him there.  Shame on that first jury on his earlier arrest who believed his psycho ass over the hotel room victim. 

[TVbitch]

I thought Keith made it pretty clear when they were cutting to an old interview. Good on the psychologist for out conning the con. I'm sure he thought he had her wrapped around his finger again. 

I wonder what century it will have to be before sexual predators get properly sentenced. Releasing them back into society again and again shows how little regard is given to these crimes. I wonder if it were men that were so frequently being raped, kidnapped, beaten and murdered things would be different. 

[iMonrey]

19 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I thought Keith made it pretty clear when they were cutting to an old interview.

Not at first. It wasn't until they showed the interview with Victor that he specified it took place 20 years ago. The earlier interviews they showed with Kristi's mom and Susan Murphy had no such references, and they were mixed in with more recent interviews with Cathy and Alice.

23 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

And holy repetitive with the constant reciting of the clothes inventory. Stiletto heels, nylon stockings, short black mini-skirt, men's white dress shirt, and he'd provide the tie. Let's all say it together again!  🙄

It never ceases to amaze me the audacity of defense attorneys willing to go on TV and defend these obviously guilty monsters. None of these women knew each other, how could they all have described the exact same clothing? Is he saying that's just a coincidence? I get that if you're a court-appointed public defender you just have to do your job the best you can, but I'd never go on Dateline and say this guy was innocent.