All Episodes Discussion

[UsernameFatigue]

I watched the YouTube video and found some things there that were not covered by Dateline, and also some things that were left out but Dateline covered. Did Dateline cover the fact that Ben had a million dollar life insurance policy that Lynlee tried to cash in on less than 24 hours after Ben's murder? If they did I missed it. 

I wish Dateline had shown the footage (as the YouTube video did) of Lynlee mouthing "thank you" three times when she heard her 13 year sentence. Pretty much sums up her guilt right there, and that she knew she was damn lucky to get off as easy as she did.  How any friends/family/lawyers can still think she is innocent is beyond me. 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by UsernameFatigue

[Ohmo]

On 3/5/2022 at 6:30 PM, TVbitch said:

Now you may want to look out your window for flying pigs, people

I love this SO MUCH...and agreed about Lynlee.  She's in this up to her eyeballs!  How are these ex-boyfriends always always so willing to buy the crap their ex-girlfriends are selling?

Suzanne Morphew (I'm behind on my crime shows): I'm on the fence as to whether Barry did it.  It's been established that she went to several states to be with Jeff.  Therefore, I don't find it implausible that she may have crossed paths with a guy with a history of sexual violence toward women (the DNA in the car), and that person killed her.  That DNA isn't so easily explained away.

[Annber03]

49 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Did Dateline cover the fact that Ben had a million dollar life insurance policy that Lynlee tried to cash in on less than 24 hours after Ben's murder? If they did I missed it. 

I don't recall hearing them mention that, no, but wow, if that's not a massive red flag right there....

[Ohmo]

1 minute ago, Annber03 said:

I don't recall hearing them mention that

That wasn't mentioned.

[UsernameFatigue]

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I don't recall hearing them mention that, no, but wow, if that's not a massive red flag right there....

Ya, kind of a big piece of info for Dateline to leave out. Luckily the police suspected her right away so she was never able to collect on the insurance, thank goodness. 

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Ya, kind of a big piece of info for Dateline to leave out. Luckily the police suspected her right away so she was never able to collect on the insurance, thank goodness. 

It's always amazing to me on these shows how these people genuinely seem to think that they'll kill someone and immediately be rolling in dough within a day or so of the death. Like, no, insurance has to make sure all's above board before they just start giving out money after these kinds of deaths. 

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 3/5/2022 at 5:57 PM, Annber03 said:

I also love how she explained bringing her boyfriend with her because someone suggested she do that to "stay safe". 

Just to clarify, it wasn't her boyfriend.  It was her ex, who she hadn't had contact with in over 6 years, and that's what made it so ludicrous...see excerpt below!

On 3/5/2022 at 11:52 AM, iMonrey said:

Honestly - there was no earthly explanation for why she brought that guy with her if all she wanted to do was ask for a divorce. She was already seeing that Brandon guy and she could also have brought along one of her co-workers. You know - the ones who testified she said she was going to kill her husband.

Yes, that is one of the things that solidified it for me that she was guilty.

On 3/5/2022 at 6:30 PM, TVbitch said:

Busting Lindsey on the nude photos, framing the brother, not even asking the dude why he shot her husband, and on why people who didn't even know each other all had the same story about her. 

 I hope Lindsey's deluded supporters were watching her dry cry as she tried to gaslight Andrea.  

Yeah, Andrea hit the highlights!  And the dry cry was the other thing that solidified it for me that she was guilty.

[iMonrey]

My DVR stopped recording halfway thru this last one (Siren Song) - did they ever find a body? Did they ever explain why the missing woman was named "Sarm?" What an odd name.

And the reward for the most idiotic question ever asked goes to . . . 

Ex-Wife: "He grabbed me by the hair, dragged me out of the truck, slammed my head against the ground, rolled me over and started to choke me out."

Andrea Canning: "Did you think your life was in danger?"

Um, no Andrea, I felt perfectly fine. Dumbass.

[Irlandesa]

I ended up fast forwarding last night's episode because it was a whole lot of nothing in terms of movement on the case.  She's missing.  No body (unless it was discovered when I fast forwarded).  Just the interview with the ex.  And he took the dog from the kid.  And Andrea tried to interview him.  And people want his boat searched.

It was about as wholly unsatisfying as it gets.

[TVbitch]

I concur. The most absurd waste of time being when Andrea, dressed in a flouncy pink mini-dress I believe, boated out to the ex's boat and tried to yell questions at him, which, of course, he did not answer. (Sorry Andrea, I loved you last week, but we both know it was never going to last. : D ) 

[Melina22]

I deleted this one after the first couple of minutes, because I could tell the case had no resolution. Nowadays, I delete all shows I can tell aren't solved. There's no reason for me to spend one or two hours watching a depressing story with no ending. 

This might sound horrible, but lately I also delete stories I know will be "The husband/boyfriend did it." I just don't have anything to learn from these, about psychology or human nature. 

There's a reason people are so fascinated by Black Widows and people like Pam Hupp. It's because they're such an anomaly. Men who kill their mates? Sadly, they're all too common. 

[Annber03]

Our cable went out halfway through the episode last night, so I didn't see the second half of this episode. Seems I didn't miss a whole lot, though. 

4 hours ago, TVbitch said:

The most absurd waste of time being when Andrea, dressed in a flouncy pink mini-dress I believe, boated out to the ex's boat and tried to yell questions at him, which, of course, he did not answer.

Seriously, why do reporters do this? I mean, yeah, the lack of answers from the person they're following says a lot, but you know full well they're not going to answer and will try to scurry away, so why even bother with this sort of thing? For the dramatics of it all, I guess? 

[UsernameFatigue]

Did anyone watch this weekend's 48 Hours episode, which was about husband killer Lynlee? There was no mystery, as the title of the episode was "The Poisonous Wife". It was only an hour long so cut out a lot of the filler that Dateline put in(and often does) their version.

A couple of things brought up that I don't remember in the Dateline episode. They showed text messages between Lynlee and Ben from just a few days before he was murdered. Lynlee was $200,000 in debt with her spa but apparently Ben didn't know she was that much in debt until then. Though of course we knew from Dateline that he had been subsidizing the business all along.

Lynlee sold the property and snakes fairly quickly, and moved away. She cut off contact with Sam and his family very quickly, and did not allow Sam to see Ben's children. They showed Ben after sentencing speaking in court, and bringing up the fact that Lynlee brought the children out to the farm, knowing she would find their father dead. He talked about comforting them at the scene as he is covered in Ben's blood, and them asking if their father was dead. At the end of the episode Sam said that he is now raising Ben's children. 

I don't think it was brought up in Dateline, but under state law the judge was not allowed to change the 13 +3 year sentence Lynlee was given by the jury. He was absolutely disgusted, and told Lynlee that she was very lucky to get such a light sentence, and that she would only be in her 40s when she got out. He concluded by saying quite vehemently that he hoped  when she got out that she did not kill again. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by UsernameFatigue

[BusyOctober]

I deleted Friday’s ep about the missing woman in St. John as soon as Andrea asked her typical stupid questions.  I just can’t watch her pretend to be a serious reporter and interview people anymore. She is awful.
The voiceover describes the action: “the police went to <insert suspect’s / dead or missing person’s name here>“….

The interviewee makes a statement,  “ we entered the home and found a trail of blood and several spent shell casings.”

Andrea, wide eyed and incredulous, “Oh my gosh!  What did you think you were walking into??”

My fantasy is that the cop would reply, “ Um…a murder scene?  I’m a homicide detective, I wasn’t responding to a missing puppy call.”

If Andrea is “reporting”, I will skip the story from now on.  Especially since 20/20 and 48 Hours will have already done the story, or will in a week or two.

[Ohmo]

On 3/12/2022 at 5:15 PM, Annber03 said:

Our cable went out halfway through the episode last night, so I didn't see the second half of this episode. Seems I didn't miss a whole lot, though. 

The one thing I did find interesting was the blond attorney who said that Ryan's past domestic violence conviction might get them to probable cause to get them a warrant to search the boat. But yet, there seems to be an official position that they don't have enough to get the warrant.

He did it.  There's no other reasonable (or plausible) explanation.  Her friends haven't heard from her.  If there were an accident, there would be a body.  The fact that there isn't means he doesn't want it to be found, which means he did it.  See Nattalee Holloway.

[iMonrey]

Quote

See Nattalee Holloway.

Except . . . you can't.

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Except . . . you can't.

Yes, I think both women faced similar fates.

[JudyObscure]

A Haunting Stretch of Road  It is so frustrating to watch the wheels of justice creak along while women die.  If something had been done way back when that off duty policeman caught Jose dragging Marta down the street after he had kidnapped her for two days, a lot of grief could have been avoided. 

I did really like Derrick (pronounced "dirk" by some.)  He was always so dapper in his ironed shirts and so fearless confronting Jose in his apartment.

I lived in Arlington, 1985-1990 (the Marta years) in an apartment building that looked just like the one Jose lived in.  It's hard to believe the things that go on around us.

[Guest]

On 3/13/2022 at 7:05 PM, BusyOctober said:

I deleted Friday’s ep about the missing woman in St. John as soon as Andrea asked her typical stupid questions.  I just can’t watch her pretend to be a serious reporter and interview people anymore. She is awful.
The voiceover describes the action: “the police went to <insert suspect’s / dead or missing person’s name here>“….

The interviewee makes a statement,  “ we entered the home and found a trail of blood and several spent shell casings.”

Andrea, wide eyed and incredulous, “Oh my gosh!  What did you think you were walking into??”

My fantasy is that the cop would reply, “ Um…a murder scene?  I’m a homicide detective, I wasn’t responding to a missing puppy call.”

If Andrea is “reporting”, I will skip the story from now on.  Especially since 20/20 and 48 Hours will have already done the story, or will in a week or two.

I hear you.   One more reason I am irritated with Andrea was her interview with the mother of the indigenous young girl gone missing and their discussion on the lack of national coverage. 

Andrea Canning had the audacity to say to the mother that perhaps if the daughter was white she would get more news coverage. The mother agreed and said yes, when our daughters go missing the national news does not cover their disappearances.  They do if they are white women. 

Andrea then clucks her tongue and says “that’s terrible”.  

Excuse me….Andrea aren’t you the media?  I was stunned that she couldn’t or wouldn’t detect the irony in her statement.

And since I’m on the subject of Andrea Canning I wish she’d consult with a stylist to choose appropriate footwear and dressing for her interviews.  I’m sure stillato heels have a place in a New York restaurant but when you’re traipsing through a field in the middle of Minot North Dakota….not so much.  A thigh high split skirt on a boat with wind…also not appropriate.  
Think business casual.  

And eyebrows.  Please, lighten and thin them a bit.  More than once I was reminded of Uncle Leo. 
 

Edited March 19, 2022 by PsychoKlown

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

A Haunting Stretch of Road  It is so frustrating to watch the wheels of justice creak along while women die.  If something had been done way back when that off duty policeman caught Jose dragging Marta down the street after he had kidnapped her for two days, a lot of grief could have been avoided. 

Right? I love how Jose didn't go to jail for the abuse he'd inflicted on any of the women he was with, but one instance of one of his wives fighting back by stabbing him with a knife when he's coming at her with a gun, and she's the one who gets arrested because of how the optics look when the police arrive. That case was dropped in the end, but still. It just seemed like Jose was the luckiest creep in the world, always seeming to evade being held accountable for anything he did. 

I was going to flip a damn table if it'd been revealed that Jose somehow managed to avoid a lengthy prison sentence in the end, after all of this time and effort that was put into this case. I was getting so nervous when the search along that highway for the remains was getting all complicated. Thank goodness Jose is no longer posing a threat to anyone else. I feel so bad for Marta, Pam, and Guadalupe, and all their respective families - Guadalupe is fortunate to have escaped with her life, but even then, she still had to go into hiding for so long to try and escape his clutches. I hope she's doing okay for herself now, wherever she is. 

Love, too, how Jose can be married to two women at the same time, juggle two families, and that's apparently okay, but god forbid Marta find somebody new after leaving him. Good ol' double standard at work - really speaks to how controlling he truly was. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

A Haunting Stretch of Road  It is so frustrating to watch the wheels of justice creak along while women die. 

It's also frustrating in that it wasn't a case that merited two hours. The first hour was spent on backstory and red herrings. Once they got into Jose's past it became obvious who the culprit was. And yes, the shoddy police work. At first when they said they could see Jose carrying bags out of Pam's house that were too small to contain a human body I thought "Not if he chopped her up!!!"

I tend to agree with the brother that the authorities were less interested in solving the case because the victim was a black woman, but then again we've seen plenty of bungled investigations where the victim was white. There's no IQ test for police work, I've watched enough Dateline to know that by now.

[ButterQueen]

Was last night really new?  I’ve seen all the family and friends before.

And the issue with the bedroom shade.

Edited March 19, 2022 by ButterQueen

[Koalagirl]

5 minutes ago, ButterQueen said:

Was last night really new?  I’ve seen all the family and friends before.

And the issue with the bedroom shade.

I was thinking the same thing, especially because of the window shade. 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, ButterQueen said:

Was last night really new?  I’ve seen all the family and friends before.

And the issue with the bedroom shade.

It might have had new information but I stopped watching early because I too recognized the shade detail, the location and both the victim and brother looked familiar to me. I am pretty sure Dateline covered it before.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Irlandesa

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It might have had new information but I stopped watching early because I too recognized the shade detail, the location and both the victim and brother looked familiar to me. I am pretty sure Dateline covered it before.

They did. 

[mythoughtis]

Has anyone ever wondered why the IRS isn’t exposing these bigamists?  You know this guy had to file joint returns with both wife 1 and wife 2.  Yet we never hear of bigamists being caught through tax returns. 

[JudyObscure]

The men probably know they can't file the same social security number twice.  They probably file a married joint return with the first wife, and then they file for the second wife as a single woman. Lots of women let the man do the taxes and pay no attention to what he's doing. 

[LuvMyShows]

On 3/19/2022 at 1:55 PM, Irlandesa said:

It might have had new information but I stopped watching early because I too recognized the shade detail, the location and both the victim and brother looked familiar to me. I am pretty sure Dateline covered it before.

If anyone watches the Bachelor/ette franchise, the brother Derrick strongly resembles Riley, from Clare/Tayshia's seasons and then Bachelor in Paradise.

[Crashcourse]

14 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

If anyone watches the Bachelor/ette franchise, the brother Derrick strongly resembles Riley, from Clare/Tayshia's seasons and then Bachelor in Paradise.

Except the brother was really thin and looked about, oh, 80 lbs. lighter than Riley.

[12catcrazy]

On 3/19/2022 at 9:07 AM, JudyObscure said:

A Haunting Stretch of Road  It is so frustrating to watch the wheels of justice creak along while women die.  If something had been done way back when that off duty policeman caught Jose dragging Marta down the street after he had kidnapped her for two days, a lot of grief could have been avoided. 

I

If I recall, Marta didn't show up to court so they dropped the case against him.  I kept thinking, that too bad she hadn't showed up  - maybe she still would be alive.   But considering how often Domestic Abusers get only a slap on the wrist, maybe not.  

[iMonrey]

"In the Light of Day" was another sad case where the family just didn't want to accept that Lee could possibly have committed suicide, even though he was a case study of a typical suicide victim. Heavily in debt, latest business deal has just fallen through, and drunk off his ass. The wife's stepfather had no motive and his behavior didn't seem all that suspicious to me since, by his own admission, he was blackout drunk himself. 

If anyone had killed him I'd think the wife would be the more likely suspect and maybe her stepfather helped her cover it up. 

[TVbitch]

I was thinking maybe the wife and her stepfather were going to be having an affair or something, cuz otherwise, yeah, no real motive for Rob to have done it. And if Rob were going to cover for his stepdaughter, I think he would have come up with a better plan. 

The drunken 911 call was brutal though, I think that really set it in the minds of Lee's family that he was killed. I wonder if Rob ever said on the 911 call, "We have all been drinking and are disoriented."  

[Madding crowd]

I agree the stepfather didn’t have a motive but his saying the victim was either a friend or cousin of his stepdaughter was really weird, drunk or not. The wife also seemed really calm and not upset which was suspicious. 

[nora1992]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:24 AM, JudyObscure said:

The men probably know they can't file the same social security number twice.  They probably file a married joint return with the first wife, and then they file for the second wife as a single woman. Lots of women let the man do the taxes and pay no attention to what he's doing. 

Is the IRS that quick to find bigamy?  They’re so slow to find people working W2 jobs with phony Social Security numbers.  And even my county is slow to find fraudsters: there are property owners who claim the homeowners exemption on multiple houses, even the ones they rent out in a clear violation of the statute, but no one seems to check.

[JudyObscure]

44 minutes ago, nora1992 said:

Is the IRS that quick to find bigamy?

No, but their computers will kick out any social security number that's already been filed.

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I agree the stepfather didn’t have a motive but his saying the victim was either a friend or cousin of his stepdaughter was really weird, drunk or not. The wife also seemed really calm and not upset which was suspicious. 

Yeah, that whole call had me raising a brow, too. This guy's been in your home all evening with you, sharing drinks, and yet somehow you're suddenly not sure who he is when calling 911? Okay. 

Also, they talked about how the stepfather had been blackout drunk, thus explaining why his timeline of events was so wonky* and why he claimed, on the 911 call, that he wasn't sure who the guy was...but then they showed him in the interrogation and he seemed able to carry on a conversation with the detective talking to him, and his words didn't sound too slurred. Granted, I've never been blackout drunk, and I know alcohol can affect people in different ways, but...I dunno, I didn't get a blackout drunk vibe from him, either on that 911 call or in the interview with the detective. He was likely drunk to some degree, yes, obviously, but he didn't seem THAT out of it.

The stepfather just weirded me out in general honestly. He, and the show, kept making a big deal out him being an ex-cop and lawyer and thus couldn't make all these mistakes, but then he's going on about how he thought he was being targeted when he saw the officers coming up to him, guns pointed at him, when he was being arrested, which, surely as a former cop, you would be able to figure out pretty early on that's what's happening, I would think. And he's talking about how he wouldn't be so irresponsible to bring a gun into a situation where everyone's been drinking,...except, well, there was a gun in the house that night, wasn't there, and someone did get to it and used it to tragic effect in the end, didn't they? So... It wasn't in the room with them, no, but it was still close by, in another room, and what's more, it wasn't even properly locked away. It was stashed in a bag. Which, when you've got young kids in the house, seems all the more irresponsible to me. I would think a former cop would keep that in mind when keeping their gun in a house. 

And then he's washing his hands after the officers who arrive on the scene tell him not to, and he's wandering about in the blood and messing with the crime scene, and...yeah, I dunno, he just bugged me. Former cops have committed crimes before, and have been stupid enough to not entirely cover their tracks properly, so I have no problem believing that could've been the case here, too. 

I honestly have no problem believing either the wife or the stepfather could've killed Lee, honestly. I think if there was a motive, it had something to do with Lee's business struggles somehow - maybe the wife was frustrated at her husband's inability to support the family, maybe she saw all the stuff with the mounting debts and they got in a fight about it, maybe the stepfather confronted him over it, too, for some reason or other, and a fight ensued and the gun went off (they did say that at one point the stepfather had been showing Lee how the gun worked, didn't he? So clearly it was in his possession at some point that night), or something of that sort. I don't care how good one's relationship (supposedly) is with somebody, you get someone being bitter about a business deal gone wrong, and introduce a night of heavy drinking and a gun into the mix, and it's very easy to see where things can go sideways very fast.

If one of them did kill Lee, I don't know that I'd go so far to say it was premeditated, but a spur of the moment reaction during a heated fight over some issues that had been building for a while? Yeah, sure, I could buy that happening. 

I can see why some would consider suicide, too, mind - indeed, Lee's situation would certainly point to that as a possible option. But if he had done that in the hopes of clearing up the financial mess he would be leaving his family, well...life insurance generally doesn't pay out for suicides, so that would be a futile solution on his part (mind, suicidal people obviously aren't thinking clearly in that moment to consider facts like that, so... But still). 

But the whole thing about how he was worth more dead than he was alive, that sounds more like the sort of thing you hear from people who commit a murder, which is why I think it makes total sense that either the stepfather or wife could've killed him. 

Yeah. I dunno. Just such a weird case. 

*That was a huge flaw on the investigators' part, interrogating both the wife and stepfather for hours on end shortly after the murder while they're both still drunk and tired and out of it to some degree. Of course their stories are going to be wonky as a result. Would've been better to wait and interview them once they'd sobered up. 

On that note, I'm surprised there was no mention of anyone trying to determine Lee's time of death, given the issues with that huge time gap between 10:30 pm and 5 am. Narrowing down his time of death could've made it a lot easier to sort out some of the weird details about this case, no? 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Annber03

[Koalagirl]

The stepfather said he took the gun apart while Lee watched and then he put it away in the duffle bag. Why, then, were none of the stepfather’s fingerprints found on the gun?  

[pdlinda]

59 minutes ago, Koalagirl said:

The stepfather said he took the gun apart while Lee watched and then he put it away in the duffle bag. Why, then, were none of the stepfather’s fingerprints found on the gun?  

I believe if he dissembled the gun and then put it back together, he would have cleaned the surfaces leaving it clear of any fingerprints.

[pdlinda]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

But the whole thing about how he was worth more dead than he was alive, that sounds more like the sort of thing you hear from people who commit a murder, which is why I think it makes total sense that either the stepfather or wife could've killed him. 

I worked on the defense side in Maricopa County for MANY YEARS and professionally am acquainted with all the professionals featured in this Dateline episode.  I'm now retired; however, was very active in my career when the case was initiated and the crime occurred.

For whatever reason, I never heard about this case because it did NOT receive wide media coverage (Jodi Arias' case was plastered on national/international media for YEARS so maybe that stole the thunder from publicizing this very interesting case).

Even Judge Mullins' extraordinary ruling overturning the jury's verdict did not receive wide publicity as far as I know.

After thinking about all the aspects of the case, I agree with the psychologist father of the wife and believe Lee committed suicide.  

That's because  as Judge Mullins ruled and the AZ Supreme Court agreed, there wasn't a scintilla of evidence pointing to either the wife/stepfather committing the crime.  I agree they uttered some very bizarre statements during the police interrogations; however, even circumstantial evidence was sorely lacking.

To me, Lee was a grandiose type of person (salesman) who may have had some serious mental health conditions that he covered up by drinking and acting impulsively.  I worked with MANY defendants who had those characteristics and when they hit the skids financially and continued drinking, terrible things happened.  With personality disorders like this, there really is no "cure."  Sometimes the people "age out" of their grandiosity but RARELY do their hyped-up business deals become realities.  

It is very plausible that after Lee received the dismal news from the prospective business partner (the witness in the orange shirt) that the deal wasn't going through, and that was memorialized in the email that was discussed, he because very anxious about finances and started drinking in excess with the stepfather and his wife. 

However, THIS TIME, a gun was accessible and in his inebriated state (with the other two also very drunk) he impulsively grabbed the stepfather's gun and discharged it.  The others may have witnessed this; however, for whatever reason (that is open to conjecture) they chose to act in the inappropriate and weird way they did.

I noted how cavalier the wife was about the family' frequent financial debacles caused by Lee's erratic business ventures (most of which didn't materialize).

This time, however, at 50 yrs of age, Lee may have come to his emotional breaking point trying to pick up all the financial pieces he was balancing in the air awaiting his "big deal" finalizing.

The matter of the insurance $$$ is vital to this scenario as, yes, life insurance usually doesn't pay out in suicide cases.  As the case has now been dismissed, and there are no pending charges, the death certificate still stands as a "homicide" so if nothing further is done legally, I think the wife's payout will remain with her.

[Guest]

One thing to add…and maybe I’m the only one who finds this intriguing but according to Keith Morrison the young girls (10 and 12) adored their Papa.  They were devastated to find out that he was found guilty.

So now that they’re in their 20’s and Papa’s conviction was reversed, why aren’t they embracing Papa?  Do they know something that they weren’t able to tell the authorities a decade ago because Mom lawyered them up?

it might be nothing but for them to love Papa so much you’d think they’d want to be back with him and have Papa help them through the grief of their fathers’ suicide 

Unless…they have all the answers to the many questions we on the outside have posed.

Just a thought. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by PsychoKlown

[pdlinda]

51 minutes ago, PsychoKlown said:

it might be nothing but for them to love Papa so much you’d think they’d want to be back with him and have Papa help them through the grief of their fathers’ suicide 

The case was dismissed without prejudice.  That means the State could refile it at any time (although it is EXTREMELY unlikely).

Maybe after the YEARS of trauma and devastation the families suffered as a result of this case, it is best for all the parties to emotionally recover at their own pace and possibly reunite at a later time.

Just because the girls are not in touch with Papa right now doesn't mean it will never happen.

Edited March 27, 2022 by pdlinda

[nora1992]

13 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

No, but their computers will kick out any social security number that's already been filed.

In today’s e-filing world, sure.  But what about during the years of mailing everything in on paper?  I wonder if any repeats or fake numbers  were written off to operator error in earlier technology days.  Remember the days of multiple IRS processing centers for sending off returns?
Then again, the IRS was able to convict Capone when bootlegging couldn’t: maybe they beat Geraldo to the vaults…..

[iMonrey]

Quote

I agree the stepfather didn’t have a motive but his saying the victim was either a friend or cousin of his stepdaughter was really weird, drunk or not. The wife also seemed really calm and not upset which was suspicious. 

What he said was weird even if he was guilty. It just plain didn't make sense which just points to him being drunk off his ass. He apparently woke up, found the body, called 911 and was even confused about who it was. Didn't one of them ask "Is Lee in there" when the cops were there? Neither of them understood what was happening.

I don't think you can read too much into the wife's demeanor in the interrogation room either. Still drunk, tired, confused and in shock.

Mind you, I wouldn't rule out an accidental shooting and a cover-up. But I've seen so many cases where a family just couldn't accept that a love one could have committed suicide even when all the signs point to it.

Quote

To me, Lee was a grandiose type of person (salesman) who may have had some serious mental health conditions that he covered up by drinking and acting impulsively.  I worked with MANY defendants who had those characteristics and when they hit the skids financially and continued drinking, terrible things happened.  With personality disorders like this, there really is no "cure."  Sometimes the people "age out" of their grandiosity but RARELY do their hyped-up business deals become realities. 

Yeah, just from what little the show told us, Lee was all about ego. He seemed to be a "get rich quick" type of guy, one minute buying a Jaguar and the next minute losing his house. That's not a stable person.

[badgerwoman]

16 hours ago, pdlinda said:

 

The matter of the insurance $$$ is vital to this scenario as, yes, life insurance usually doesn't pay out in suicide cases.  As the case has now been dismissed, and there are no pending charges, the death certificate still stands as a "homicide" so if nothing further is done legally, I think the wife's payout will remain with her.

the suicide clause in most insurance contracts state no payment if suicide is within the first two years of the effective date of the policy.  That's to keep people contemplating suicide taking out a policy thinking it will payout upon death.   there may be some companies that have a different timeline, but I haven't heard of any.  

[Madding crowd]

16 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What he said was weird even if he was guilty. It just plain didn't make sense which just points to him being drunk off his ass. He apparently woke up, found the body, called 911 and was even confused about who it was. Didn't one of them ask "Is Lee in there" when the cops were there? Neither of them understood what was happening.

I don't think you can read too much into the wife's demeanor in the interrogation room either. Still drunk, tired, confused and in shock.

Mind you, I wouldn't rule out an accidental shooting and a cover-up. But I've seen so many cases where a family just couldn't accept that a love one could have committed suicide even when all the signs point to it.

Yeah, just from what little the show told us, Lee was all about ego. He seemed to be a "get rich quick" type of guy, one minute buying a Jaguar and the next minute losing his house. That's not a stable person.

It’s not weird if you are trying to pretend you are so drunk you don’t know what is going on. I agree there is no evidence that the stepfather did anything. It just seems a strange place and time to commit suicide. But drinking does make people act out. I do know that no matter how drunk or tired I was I would  be devastated and crying if my husband died. And the way the wife calmly said his name and age in the background of the 911 call , it seemed like she wasn’t too drunk.

[Josiemae]

In The Light of Day

That Belinda woman got on my last nerve. Her weepy wide-eyed innocence that went on waaaay too long and that big honking crucifix were annoying.

And how disingenuous of Rob's lawyer whining bout how Rob lost "everything" when every bit of it, no doubt, went into his own pocket. 

Also Dateline: give us some dates for these interviews. Otherwise, we have to rely on wrinkles and hair to determine the chronological order.

[UsernameFatigue]

19 hours ago, PsychoKlown said:

One thing to add…and maybe I’m the only one who finds this intriguing but according to Keith Morrison the young girls (10 and 12) adored their Papa.  They were devastated to find out that he was found guilty.

So now that they’re in their 20’s and Papa’s conviction was reversed, why aren’t they embracing Papa?  Do they know something that they weren’t able to tell the authorities a decade ago because Mom lawyered them up?

it might be nothing but for them to love Papa so much you’d think they’d want to be back with him and have Papa help them through the grief of their fathers’ suicide 

Unless…they have all the answers to the many questions we on the outside have posed.

Just a thought. 

It sounds like Belinda is rebuilding her relationship with Rob, so maybe her daughters are as well and she just didn't talk about them. It is also possible that they have been influenced heavily by their fathers' family, who still think Rob is guilty and refuse to believe that Lee would commit suicide. 

I was very impressed by Belinda's biological father and step mother who said that they totally believed that Lee killed himself. They would have been witness to Lee's behavior over the years, and in their profession certainly know his personality type and traits. 

[pdlinda]

58 minutes ago, Josiemae said:

And how disingenuous of Rob's lawyer whining bout how Rob lost "everything" when every bit of it, no doubt, went into his own pocket. 

I must take exception to your remark regarding Rob's extremely reputable lawyer, Dwayne Cates, who has a well-earned IMPECCIABLE reputation among members of the Phoenix, AZ criminal defense community.

May I emphasize that if Atty. Cates did not have the talent and skill and if he did not TAKE THE TIME to draft and submit that brilliant Motion to the Court that pointed out the specifics of how the jury verdict did NOT reflect the truth that, in Rob's case, there was NO credible evidence to warrant a Guilty Verdict, Rob would, no doubt, be rotting in prison at this very moment! 

When Atty. Cates' Motion convinced Judge Karen Mullins (a Judge with a pristine reputation) to overturn the Jury's verdict, that was extraordinary!!

Even the AZ Supreme Court took the time to assess the merits of Atty. Cates' exceptionally powerful Motion to Dismiss the case against Rob and concurred with Judge Mullins' decision to overturn the jury verdict.

In life there are certain things that money CAN buy and certain things it CAN'T.  Thankfully, Rob had the funds to retain such an EXCELLENT ATTORNEY!

Hopefully, Rob (now that he is no longer legally a "convicted felon") can rebuild his personal and financial life and honor the superb representation he got from Atty. Dwayne Cates.

 

 

[Josiemae]

2 hours ago, pdlinda said:

I must take exception to your remark regarding Rob's extremely reputable lawyer, Dwayne Cates, who has a well-earned IMPECCIABLE reputation among members of the Phoenix, AZ criminal defense community.

May I emphasize that if Atty. Cates did not have the talent and skill and if he did not TAKE THE TIME to draft and submit that brilliant Motion to the Court that pointed out the specifics of how the jury verdict did NOT reflect the truth that, in Rob's case, there was NO credible evidence to warrant a Guilty Verdict, Rob would, no doubt, be rotting in prison at this very moment! 

When Atty. Cates' Motion convinced Judge Karen Mullins (a Judge with a pristine reputation) to overturn the Jury's verdict, that was extraordinary!!

Even the AZ Supreme Court took the time to assess the merits of Atty. Cates' exceptionally powerful Motion to Dismiss the case against Rob and concurred with Judge Mullins' decision to overturn the jury verdict.

In life there are certain things that money CAN buy and certain things it CAN'T.  Thankfully, Rob had the funds to retain such an EXCELLENT ATTORNEY!

Hopefully, Rob (now that he is no longer legally a "convicted felon") can rebuild his personal and financial life and honor the superb representation he got from Atty. Dwayne Cates.

 

 

Oh, OK. He probably took the case pro bono then. 

[12catcrazy]

What a weird case this was and the moral of the story is that alcohol and guns are a really bad mix (duh).

I think the victim committed suicide.  His big financial deal was crashed, he's 50 years old, and he has downed a bottle of vodka (Jesus, those guys were heavy drinkers - TWO bottles of vodka between the two of them).   Easy enough to be that incredibly drunk and go get a gun and end it all.  Rationality doesn't come into something like this at all.  And who knows what the three of them talked about during the evening.   Maybe the wife got mad and called him a failure or said,  "THIS again!  I'm done..." and maybe her stepfather chimed in and agreed that Lee needed to grow up and get a real job or that he was a loser who was putting his family through hell... You just don't know.   And from personally coming from a household with an alcoholic parent and where most of her relatives were also alcoholics, I can tell you a lot about very drunk related people gathered together for a "good" time.   Thank God nobody had guns because it could have been tragic.  

As for Lee's family who just can't believe that he'd kill himself. the face a person shows people on the outside can be different than what they are feeling inside.  Again, from personal experience having a friend who was the absolute last guy anybody would have thought would kill himself - friendly, outgoing, happy on the outside, with a wife and two young teens whom he adored.  Yet this man hanged himself from his staircase at home leaving his family in shock and his kids in freefall and all of his friends asking "why???".