All Episodes Discussion

[LakeGal]

I suspected the wife right away.  Why did she not see her dead husband in the house?  The cops saw him as soon as they walked in the house.  If the wife was so upset by the overturned table why didn't she just go across the street to the police station?  I thought the fact she called the police instead of going there odd.  I did not believe she left him alive in the house with his fast food while she went to the Piggly Wiggly.  She just wanted an alibi.  The fridge was so full of food there was no room to get more juice and sandwich meat.

It sure seems like Andrea is doing the show a lot more often than the other guys. 

[cooksdelight]

4 hours ago, LakeGal said:

It sure seems like Andrea is doing the show a lot more often than the other guys

Could you see Keith or Josh doing that story and keeping a straight face? LOL, it would have been filled with funny one-liners to the point we couldn’t take the death of a man seriously.

[CrazyInAlabama]

After the wife was sentenced to a long prison term she was at Tutwiler women's prison.   Then without notifications to the relatives of her victim, the investigators or prosecutors she was put in a work release program very close to the prosecutors, investigators, and her victim's family, then after a public outcry, she was back at Tutwiler.    

Edited October 24, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[LittleIggy]

13 hours ago, Annber03 said:

That was hilarious. But yeah, agreed, poor guy. 

And then there was that moment where people initially refused to believe Cindy and Jeff were hooking up in a vehicle because they were too big to fit inside it. That's....an interesting argument to go with :p.

(And having sex in a pest control car. Oh, yeah. That's hot.)

Then there was the cop who couldn’t believe Cindy would have passed on those yummy fries if she was on the up and up. 😆

[MooCat Pretzel]

Serious question (Alabama episode): Why is it that when Dateline shows pictures of the crime scene, houses always look like they are straight out of Hoarders?  Can’t murderers keep a clean, organized house??  

Okay, maybe that second question wasn’t serious...😀

Edited October 24, 2020 by MooCat Pretzel

[TVbitch]

I don't believe for one second that anyone would come home with a tasty burger and crispy fries, and then go run an errand before eating them. Just no. Case closed! Guilty! : D

I'm not sure who pulled the trigger, though. If you look at when the pastor guy is being interrogated, the detective asks him "Did you shoot him in the head?" The guy does the biggest head nod "yes" I have ever seen, while saying "no." Then the detective asks if Cindy shot him and he says "I don't know" while totally shaking his head "no." I cannot believe the detective did not point that out so Dateline could replay it over and over for us like they usually do.

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Could you see Keith or Josh doing that story and keeping a straight face? LOL, it would have been filled with funny one-liners to the point we couldn’t take the death of a man seriously.

I think Josh would have been perfect for this episode.

Food was featured prominently: french fries, orange juice, lunch meat.

Poor Michael.  He should have never gotten involved with such a dreadful woman. Even Cindy's cousin knows she's guilty,

Jeff is also dreadful.

[patty1h]

This turned out to be another case where an innocent person gave up their life because a spouse was too.... lazy/stupid/religious to get a divorce.  This case is seriously depressing because it's not even like the **wife took out a big life insurance policy and expected a windfall from the murder.  The philanderers just seemed to decide "he's in the way" and boom!   **Was the husband portrayed as some kind of jealous nut, so they feared that he'd come after them for revenge or he was the type to want to fight over dollars and cents of alimony?  I don't remember getting that vibe.  Luckily, there were no **children to make this story even sadder.  

In my mind, it seems that the murder was a way to combat small town gossip and/or nasty stares from the church folk.   Yeesh, they could have circumvented that roadblock if they'd just moved to another city.

**Indicates that I watched this seriously late and possibly missed these facts.

[12catcrazy]

2 hours ago, MooCat Pretzel said:

Serious question (Alabama episode): Why is it that when Dateline shows pictures of the crime scene, houses always look like they are straight out of Hoarders?  Can’t murderers keep a clean, organized house??  

 

My first thought when hearing the burgler angle, was that a burgler would have walked into that mess and run out in disgust.   And who the hell goes and gets a fast food dinner and rather than eating it and then going shopping, says, "Oh, I need to pick up groceries" and leaves the food to get cold.  It was pretty obvious the story was hinky from the get go.

[Annber03]

10 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

My first thought when hearing the burgler angle, was that a burgler would have walked into that mess and run out in disgust.   And who the hell goes and gets a fast food dinner and rather than eating it and then going shopping, says, "Oh, I need to pick up groceries" and leaves the food to get cold.  It was pretty obvious the story was hinky from the get go.

And if she did actually need to get groceries, one would think she might've thought of that while they were out earlier getting the food, especially since the store seemed to be pretty close to where they lived. She could've been like, "Oh, by the way, before/after we get the food, we need to swing by the store so I can grab a couple things real quick." 

My mom's commented on that before with these kinds of stories, how it's always so convenient that these murders seem to happen right when someone just happens to step out for a while. "Oh, I took a walk/went to take a shower/ran to the store/etc. and when I came back they were dead!" What a coincidence!

42 minutes ago, patty1h said:

This turned out to be another case where an innocent person gave up their life because a spouse was too.... lazy/stupid/religious to get a divorce.  

It will never cease to amaze me how people will refuse a divorce because "religion", but murdering your spouse, or being involved in a plan to murder them, is perfectly okay. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Annber03

[A.Ham]

20 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I really felt for the prosecutor who said “you couldn’t believe” how many naked pictures of the cheaters/killers he had to go through. Poor guy! Hope he got hazardous duty pay! He may have PTSD now. 😆

Seconding the hazard pay suggestion. Otherwise, how is he going to pay for all those years of therapy? Not enough brain bleach in the world for that.

I was not going to watch the episode but y'alls comments convinced me to seek it out. I did like that the cousin was aware enough to agree with prosecutors. Cindy's parents, on the other hand...

 

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

It will never cease to amaze me how people will refuse a divorce because "religion", but murdering your spouse, or being involved in a plan to murder them, is perfectly okay. 

The Mafia's the same way.  All of the killings that happen in that world and yet those families would show up at Mass.

[UsernameFatigue]

23 hours ago, MooCat Pretzel said:

Serious question (Alabama episode): Why is it that when Dateline shows pictures of the crime scene, houses always look like they are straight out of Hoarders?  Can’t murderers keep a clean, organized house??  

Okay, maybe that second question wasn’t serious...😀

I have joked that when I leave my house I think "If my house ended up on Dateline, would I be happy with how it looks?". And my house is always pretty neat and tidy. When the cops said that the house had been ransacked, I looked at hubby and said "How would they know?" 

So many stupid mistakes may by Cindy which have been already covered by other posters. And Jeff wasn't the sharpest stick in the woods, either. I miss the days when Dateline shows were actual mysteries, with murderers that were somewhat smart. In this case it was obvious from the start that it was Cindy, so really wasn't much of an episode.

One thing I am wondering though -we have seen many true crime shows where the pastor of a church is either involved in the murder, or having an affair if nothing else. And the whole town knows. Does pastor mean that he is the leader of the church, or just part of the leadership? He obviously didn't make enough money to live on in his role as pastor. Where I grew up and anywhere I have lived since then, the heads of the churches (whether pastors, priests or reverends) were/are actually respected leaders of the town, and it is their full time job.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

It depends on the size of the church staff.  My mother belonged to a church with a head pastor, and then ordained ministers for music, youth, and whatever else there is.      A friend's father was a pastor in a smaller church, and he was the only ordained minister, and I think the only paid position also. 

Also, I've met quite a few ordained ministers, but they don't have a church, and usually have regular jobs.   

Edited October 25, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[Melina22]

Just watching Bad Blood. Yikes. The Bad Seed times two. Horrifying. I feel like maybe there was more to the story than we saw. 

As an aside, the victim had a very weird romantic situation, to say the least. If this was a different show I'd be snarkier, but it feels inappropriate here for obvious reasons. 

[Dick Willi]

On 2/16/2019 at 8:53 AM, JudyObscure said:

He was the last known person to see her.

He put the kids in the car and didn't come back for some time.

The kids heard screaming or laughing and I doubt there was much laughing going on between them at that time.

She had told her friends he was violent.

She was packing to take the kids far away.

He was behind in support payments.

She had a new man in her life.

I have very little doubt he did it, but I don't know if I could 

 

The lady interviewing the children was coaching them telling to say yes to the questions that she asked. Also in the previous interview the kids did not mention any screaming. They only said that after police questioned them and asked specifically about screaming. That is what introduced it to their impressionable minds.

[Melina22]

I just watched Return to Shalimar Way. I found it pretty depressing and unsatisfying. And sad. 

First it was annoying to realize that the Return portion was just 5 minutes tacked onto the end. 

I felt so sad for the children who seem 100% convinced of their father's innocence. 

It bothers me that the jury never heard he was apparently cheating on his wife their whole marriage. Or that they were about to split up. How is this not relevant? And why didn't the show give this aspect more than 2 minutes? 

If Juror #12 showed no bias, why did they overturn the conviction and force a completely new trial? That seems really extreme. 

For once I actually believed the defence attorney when he said his client was innocent. I believe he really believes that. 

Finally, is there a possibility he really is innocent? It seems so unlikely, but... 

 

[Koalagirl]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

I just watched Return to Shalimar Way. I found it pretty depressing and unsatisfying. And sad. 

First it was annoying to realize that the Return portion was just 5 minutes tacked onto the end. 

I felt so sad for the children who seem 100% convinced of their father's innocence. 

It bothers me that the jury never heard he was apparently cheating on his wife their whole marriage. Or that they were about to split up. How is this not relevant? And why didn't the show give this aspect more than 2 minutes? 

If Juror #12 showed no bias, why did they overturn the conviction and force a completely new trial? That seems really extreme. 

For once I actually believed the defence attorney when he said his client was innocent. I believe he really believes that. 

Finally, is there a possibility he really is innocent? It seems so unlikely, but... 

 

I was waiting for them to mention if Leslie had a life insurance policy, who was the beneficiary (husband or kids), and how much it was for.  This is really important because of the financial problems and his loss of clientele. 

[EtheltoTillie]

6 minutes ago, Koalagirl said:

I was waiting for them to mention if Leslie had a life insurance policy, who was the beneficiary (husband or kids), and how much it was for.  This is really important because of the financial problems and his loss of clientele. 

I wondered about that too!!

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

I just watched Return to Shalimar Way. I found it pretty depressing and unsatisfying. And sad. 

First it was annoying to realize that the Return portion was just 5 minutes tacked onto the end. 

I felt so sad for the children who seem 100% convinced of their father's innocence. 

It bothers me that the jury never heard he was apparently cheating on his wife their whole marriage. Or that they were about to split up. How is this not relevant? And why didn't the show give this aspect more than 2 minutes? 

If Juror #12 showed no bias, why did they overturn the conviction and force a completely new trial? That seems really extreme. 

For once I actually believed the defence attorney when he said his client was innocent. I believe he really believes that. 

Finally, is there a possibility he really is innocent? It seems so unlikely, but... 

 

Here is a link to the NY Court of Appeals case that affirmed his right to a new trial.  This juror's misconduct was so egregious and her lack of candor so extreme, the court had to go to the side of the defendant, as I read it.  The statute in question allows a new trial if a substantial right of the defendant "might" have been affected.  He has a right to an impartial jury not tainted with outside influence. 

https://www.leagle.com/decision/innyco20191022295

I too feel sad about the children.  As we often see here, the children side with a parent-killer.  I think this case could have raised reasonable doubt had they not found all that blood on the bed.  Interesting that they never cleaned it up!

[iMonrey]

Quote

It will never cease to amaze me how people will refuse a divorce because "religion", but murdering your spouse, or being involved in a plan to murder them, is perfectly okay. 

I know right? Look, we've all been watching these kinds of shows for years, but it will never cease to amaze me how many  people think killing their spouse is somehow preferable to divorce. And that they think they can get away with it. 

Quote

I just watched Return to Shalimar Way. I found it pretty depressing and unsatisfying. And sad.  

Finally, is there a possibility he really is innocent? It seems so unlikely, but... 

I am not 100% convinced of his guilt. I'm about 90% convinced, but I think there's a chance. There are a lot of cases where police/prosecutors decide there's too much blood for it to have been an accident (see: The Staircase) but I know from personal experience head wounds can bleed profusely. Like, projectile bleeding, seriously. I think there's a strong case against the husband but the blood evidence didn't really convince me. 

And can I just say . . . the guy friend of the wife was rather obviously her gay bestie? Is he in the closet or something?

[Ellee]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nypd-officer-charged-death-of-autistic-son

I can’t kill a fly but let me at these two.  
 

I just can’t deal with anyone harming a child.  And speaking of that .... Vallow/Daybell ... should it be taking this long?    I hope their lives have been hell in prison. 

[Melina22]

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

And can I just say . . . the guy friend of the wife was rather obviously her gay bestie? 

That's what I thought. But I can understand if he didn't want that discussed on TV. Or maybe we're wrong, who knows? 

21 minutes ago, Ellee said:

just can’t deal with anyone harming a child.  And speaking of that .... Vallow/Daybell ... should it be taking this long?

I wonder this all the time. But since they're in jail I guess the delay isn't hurting anyone innocent. It would be different if they were still swanning around Hawaii. 

[Irlandesa]

I don't think it's necessarily relevant if he's her gay bestie.  They were both from NYC, Jewish and were platonic friends. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

There are a lot of cases where police/prosecutors decide there's too much blood for it to have been an accident (see: The Staircase) but I know from personal experience head wounds can bleed profusely. Like, projectile bleeding, seriously. I think there's a strong case against the husband but the blood evidence didn't really convince me. 

The ME friend didn't just base it on the blood evidence but fact that there appeared to be other wounds.  There were also things about his story that didn't add up--like why he chose to move the body.  And wasn't there something the daughter said on the phone that was a clue that the timeline of the husband's story didn't quite track?  I forget what it was.

But I was expecting more of an obvious motive.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Irlandesa

[Lsk02]

The daughter screamed on the phone that there was blood everywhere. On the stand she said that was when she entered the bathroom, and then she helped him move her. The show didn’t really delve that deeply into the call, so it’s hard to say how it could be interpreted. 

When they mentioned the financial issues I thought for sure there would be a life insurance motive, but I guess not. 

I might have reasonable doubt on that jury. Not having an investigation or autopsy immediately really hurt the case on this one. I think the entire family standing behind him, including her siblings, says a lot. I’m not saying he for sure didn’t do it, but I’m not completely convinced. 

 

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I felt so sad for the children who seem 100% convinced of their father's innocence. 

Yeah, it's always tough to see the kids struggle to deal with that on these shows. 

I did find it interesting that her family was standing by him, too, though. Indeed, not often that happens.

Quote

It bothers me that the jury never heard he was apparently cheating on his wife their whole marriage. Or that they were about to split up. How is this not relevant? And why didn't the show give this aspect more than 2 minutes? 

Yes! Normally this show loves to delve into that kind of salacious detail. And I too wondered about a possible life insurance policy.

I'm inclined to believe he's guilty-fair point about head wounds being pretty bloody, and that could explain the blood in the bathroom itself, but all the random spots of blood in the bedroom, and on the ceiling as well just seems...a lot to explain away. And her husband's a doctor, he would know full well that moving someone with a head injury is a bad idea. I'm not a doctor and I know that. I could even perhaps understand moving her out of the shower onto the bathroom floor, but to another room entirely is risky as hell. Add in all the issues with their marriage and I don't find it out of the realm of possibility he did something to her. This case also goes back to what I said recently about how it's just so convenient that these deaths seem to happen when the spouse happens to be out of the home, or claims they are. Not saying it can't happen, but it can be a good excuse.

Having said that, however, I do also find it really odd that the bedroom and bathroom remained virtually untouched since the day of the murder, to the point where there was still spots of blood around the rooms, even knowing someone else was going to move in there. I'd think a guilty person wouldn't want to leave that kind of evidence out there for so long, but...who knows. Maybe they thought they got it all? 

And on that note, my mom was wondering this, too-did the person planning to move in do a walk through of the house or something? 'Cause if they did, did they just bypass that area of the house entirely, or if they did go in there, did they notice the blood? And if so...why would you still want to move in knowing that kind of mess was there? That was just a really strange element of the story. 

[Melina22]

14 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I'd think a guilty person wouldn't want to leave that kind of evidence out there for so long, but...who knows. Maybe they thought they got it all? 

Good point. It's all just confusing. 

[Ohmo]

7 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Return to Shalimar Way

I think he's guilty, but OMG about that juror!  She practically guaranteed there would be a second trial,  7000 texts?!  How willful can you be to ignore the rules like that?

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, Ellee said:

I just can’t deal with anyone harming a child.  And speaking of that .... Vallow/Daybell ... should it be taking this long?

I believe their trials are slated for early 2021.  January, I think.

Shalimar Way: I think he did it because he moved her,  He's a doctor.  He would know not to do that.  The placement of the blood is more telling to me than the amount.  It's smeared on some of the walls.  I think he attacked her on the bed, she tried to get away, and either fled to the shower or he put her in the shower to make his story look good.  I don't think the bathroom was the location of the initial attack.  Plus, the EMTs believe he didn't do CPR.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

I think he did it because he moved her,

Yep.  And the reason he gave was pretty stupid if it's true that there was a skylight in the bathroom.

[TVbitch]

Also, the ME said time of death was hours earlier than he stated. He either bashed her head in, then spent some time cleaning up and staging, then maybe left the house so he could come back to perform the discovery. Or, he found her in the shower already dead for hours, then put her on the bed, then the floor, and somehow got blood all over the walls. I think he probably bashed her while she was napping or something. 

Even the totally frantic, freaked out delicate flower of a daughter was screaming "Don't move her, she could have broken her neck!" So then why the fuck did they move her? 

It is totally weird though, that he didn't demolish that crime scene as soon as the police were out of there. I mean, the ME rules it accident and everybody leaves. You just got away with murder! I would have a cleaning crew in there gutting that room the next day. 

[Melina22]

So many Datelines! 

I just watched Hope Whispers and what a bizarre and fascinating story! I cannot believe the husband appears to have gotten away with it. Assuming he did it, which honestly, it's almost impossible to believe he didn't. 

Empty $1500 urns dropped off by strangers? Mentally ill people grabbed in grocery store parking lots and rushed to mystery asylums? Telling your daughter her mother died so she won't get upset that she left? Sure, totally normal and non-suspicious. 

 

[Annber03]

I'm just stuck on the fact that he gets a call that his wife has died (or at least, that's what he claims happened), and he doesn't know who it was that called, and he does the whole cremation by phone, and some strange person he also doesn't know comes to his house with the urn and hands it over. And at no point during any of this does he question who he's talking to and meeting with, or get any more info on them or how legit they are, or check the urn right away to make sure his wife's ashes are in there (though, hell, given he's (supposedly) putting his trust in some strange guy he doesn't know to deliver them, he wouldn't even be guaranteed that. They could put ashes of anything in there and he wouldn't know the difference).

I mean, grief messes people up, no question, but...there's just way too much about that part of the story that doesn't make any sort of logical sense whatsoever, not just from an emotional standpoint, but a financial/legal standpoint as well. 

And if he did a cremation completely by phone (and how common are those, anyway?), then he would've used a card to pay for it (unless they did it for free? Which would be quite generous and unusual), so...wouldn't there be a paper trail to check out? Unless he gave cash to the strange guy who dropped off the urn, which either means he's really gullible or is just further proof of how completely illogical this story is. 

The bit where his daughter tells him that she couldn't find any death certificate and he was like, "Oh, well, maybe she died in Missouri or something..." was a totally "WTF?" moment, too. 

His phone call with his daughter just added to the suspicion-you could hear how frustrated he was getting with her, and he kept fumbling with his story and you could practically imagine the wheels turning in his head as he tried to find a new explanation for everything. I loved how point blank she got in her confrontation, and how fed up she sounded towards the end. I hope she is able to find out exactly what happened to her mom. 

(Also, I couldn't help being a bit amused when at one point Keith said, "Angela's ashes...", 'cause wasn't there a book by that name :p? My name's Angela, too, so it felt a bit weird to hear them constantly saying that name throughout the episode.)

Edited October 31, 2020 by Annber03

[Melina22]

18 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I mean, grief messes people up, no question, but...there's just way too much about that part of the story that doesn't make any sort of logical sense whatsoever, not just from an emotional standpoint, but a financial/legal standpoint as well. 

100%. Your mother died in a mental hospital. Don't tell her family. I mean she died somewhere and a stranger charged me for her ashes. Oh, the urn is empty, I think she's alive. No, I don't think I'll talk to the police about any of this but I will hire a defence lawyer. 

It boggles my mind they can't charge him with anything. 

[Ohmo]

4 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

It boggles my mind they can't charge him with anything. 

You're missing one key word...yet.  This case ain't over. Not by a long shot.  This episode was to "shake the tree" and see what falls out.  Dateline stays on cases for years.  I absolutely believe Jeff did something nefarious to Angela, and I think Ellie and her cousin believe that, too, but Jeff's got eyes on him.  If something pops, I think the cops will check it out.   I think it's way too early to say that he's gotten away with it.  That's for when there's an acquittal after a trial, and we're a long way from that.  I think the cops suspect Angela is dead and are playing the long game here.  Cold cases are reopened and reinvestigated all the time. As seasoned Dateline viewers, we all know that.  This is about patience.

[Irlandesa]

Yeah I do think they'll be on this but it's just amazing to me that he got the lead time he did and that it took them so long to question the strangeness of it.  I mean, it was months before anyone reported anything to the police.

I mean, if my dad said my mom was in an institution, I wouldn't stop until I knew where that was.  And if he claimed she were dead, I'd want to talk to people who last saw her before she died.

[Ohmo]

Update on Chad and Lori.  I could have sworn I read January 2021 somewhere when it comes to their trial, but this article mentions that the next hearing is in November, and Lori had an April 2021 trial date.  They better NOT dismiss any of the charges against Chad.

Judge combines trials for Chad and Lori Daybell

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Ohmo

[Ellee]

@Ohmo, thanks. 
 

With the number of deaths surrounding these two I would think that this would be further along.  I picture those two kids ... 😢

[EtheltoTillie]

I hate to say it but my husband and I also questioned whether the daughter did something. So ridiculous that she questioned nothing for so long.  But reading further elsewhere gives a bit more information. 
that was not the happy happy household. Also the husband has a previous wife and daughter!  

[McKavity]

1 hour ago, GussieK said:

I hate to say it but my husband and I also questioned whether the daughter did something. So ridiculous that she questioned nothing for so long.  But reading further elsewhere gives a bit more information. 
that was not the happy happy household. Also the husband has a previous wife and daughter!  

The story didn’t make me wonder if the daughter did anything, but didn’t  they start the episode with how brilliant she is?  Unhappy household or not, who wouldn’t question a story about their parent being kidnapped in a grocery store parking lot, or being told to keep the death of that parent secret from family?  So many points at which she should or could have asked questions but didn’t. There’s being an obedient child and then there’s being willfully blind.  She was a university student, not a toddler.

Edited October 31, 2020 by McKavity

[EtheltoTillie]

23 minutes ago, McKavity said:

The story didn’t make me wonder if the daughter did anything, but didn’t  they start the episode with how brilliant the she is?  Unhappy household or not, who wouldn’t question a story about their parent being kidnapped in a grocery store parking lot, or being told to keep the death of that parent secret from family?  So many points at which she should or could have asked questions but didn’t. There’s being an obedient child and then there’s being willfully blind.  She was a university student, not a toddler.

Yes!  But when I did a little more reading it seemed like the boyfriend’s parents did some questioning of dad and also got nowhere. At least they tried to act like adults. But ultimately a lot of duh!  Clearly these people didn’t watch any Dateline episodes!

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, GussieK said:

Also the husband has a previous wife and daughter!

I didn't know this! Is the ex still alive? 

[EtheltoTillie]

6 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

I didn't know this! Is the ex still alive? 

Yes!

[LakeGal]

This really seemed like an odd couple.  They were married but didn't speak each other's language.  The daughter talked about being the go between with her parents because she could speak both their languages.  

The daughter was lucky to have her boyfriend's family who took her in.  They really did seem devoted to her.

I was surprised the daughter never went and talked to her father in person.  It is a lot easier to be deceptive on the phone.  She needed to look her father in the face and ask these questions.

[Ellee]

That poor woman is probably buried under the garden she worked so hard on.   I hope they are seriously trying to find her.   
 

No doubt who is guilty here.  He better not get away with it. 

[TVbitch]

I think maybe Ellie didn't get into her dad's face sooner or insist on visiting mom in the mental hospital because she was actually enjoying being out from under her tiger mom. Maybe she's ashamed to admit this now because of how it all turned out. She's cut off ties with her dad and put him on Dateline, so at least we don't have the delusional syndrome we saw in Thursday night's episode.

You guys have already said everything else I was gonna say, so I will just add, damn, Angela's side of the family are some good looking, accomplished women! 

[Lsk02]

19 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

You guys have already said everything else I was gonna say, so I will just add, damn, Angela's side of the family are some good looking, accomplished women! 

Yes! Both her daughter and her niece are beautiful, smart women. I creeped on Ellie’s social media. While in many ways she’s a typical 20 year old college student, she also seems to have her crap together. She is pursuing a STEM related degree. I do wonder how she’s funding her schooling and life now, guessing dad cut her off. 
 

At first I questioned her accepting her dad’s story in the beginning, but I suspect for most of her life she’s been ruled by parents who make the rules and you don’t question them. She was also dealing with her own grief and guilt over the last conversation with her mother. 
 

She and her cousin are the reason this made it to Dateline. I’m impressed by her pushing to find out what happened. 

[Fable]

I also had a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that the daughter never questioned anything about her father’s story for months.  It’s so unbelievable.   I wouldn’t go so far as to say I think she was involved because I don’t, but the show made a point of talking about how brilliant she was, so it was odd that she lacked critical thinking here.  Now, I realize in some cases there are people who are academically brilliant but dimwitted in other aspects of life, but that didn’t really seem to be the case here. 

Some of the explanations offered by other posters here make some sense, but I still have a hard imagining her letting it go on for so long. – a few weeks maybe, but 7 months?  It boggles the mind. 

[iMonrey]

22 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't think it's necessarily relevant if he's her gay bestie.  They were both from NYC, Jewish and were platonic friends. 

It's relevant, because Andrea Canning was leading him to speculate whether her husband might have been jealous of him, thus suggesting the possibility that he beat her to death for it. 

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

You guys have already said everything else I was gonna say, so I will just add, damn, Angela's side of the family are some good looking, accomplished women! 

Not only that, if you add the boyfriend, and possibly even his mother you have 4 attractive and EXTREMELY youthful looking people. Seriously, when I first saw her boyfriend he looked 12. I was shocked to find out her cousin was old enough to be a lawyer. 

This isn't a criticism. They all looked great. I remember when I was 20 and looked 14. I didn't appreciate it at the time, especially since I was married with a baby, but in later years I came to really enjoy looking way younger than my age. Until now, when way younger than my age is still pretty old. When I'm 98 and people say, "No! You look 89!!!" I don't know how excited I'll get. 😁😁