All Episodes Discussion

[EtheltoTillie]

On 2/17/2020 at 8:59 PM, mousegirl said:

For those of you who think the mainstream Mormon beliefs and practices are just like any other faith, try reading the thousands upon thousands of posts on the Recovery Board at exmormon.org.  It's an incredibly fascinating look inside the LDS world via the stories of people who once practiced but fled the church.  They have some recent threads about the Daybell-Vallow case as well. 

Was going to post something similar.  I follow the exmormon thread on Reddit, as I am interested in cults.   If nothing else, the Mormon church takes up a hell of a lot of members' time with rituals and meetings to keep a hold on people.  Many requirements for living.

[EtheltoTillie]

There's a lot of guilt and fear.

[cooksdelight]

About time

https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/02/20/breaking-doomsday-mom-lori-vallow-arrested-in-hawaii/?fbclid=IwAR3Vjn_XjsXyVU-1pilMKH4rnuKkcPK5K1qWTAMM9XIxpvinmNQEBEAbxE8

[Court]

I can't find the article now but who the heck doesn't report a 15 month old baby as missing for two months? That's all kinds of suspicious. 

[druzy]

6 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

About time

https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/02/20/breaking-doomsday-mom-lori-vallow-arrested-in-hawaii/?fbclid=IwAR3Vjn_XjsXyVU-1pilMKH4rnuKkcPK5K1qWTAMM9XIxpvinmNQEBEAbxE8

From the article:

Quote

The warrant for her arrest charges her with two felony counts of desertion and nonsupport of dependent children, Kaua’i police said. She has also been charged with resisting or obstructing officers, criminal solicitation to commit a crime, and contempt of court.

Kaua’i police said the next step is a court hearing in which Vallow can waive or fight her extradition to Idaho.

 

[Koalagirl]

12 hours ago, Court said:

I can't find the article now but who the heck doesn't report a 15 month old baby as missing for two months? That's all kinds of suspicious. 

Here you go.  I agree that something is very fishy here.

https://people.com/crime/tennessee-toddler-just-reported-missing-not-seen-since-december/

 

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Here's the USA Today article about her arrest, and the charges for Lori Vallow:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/mom-of-missing-idaho-children-arrested-in-hawaii-kauai-police-dont-believe-kids-are-on-island/ar-BB10dQia?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

I really have no expectation that we'll find out anything about the kids, unless the current husband turns on her.    I have no doubt the son is dead, and the daughter was either given to someone, or is dead also. 

I'm sure the $5 million bail will not be a problem for this awful woman. 

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[iMonrey]

Well, we were all wondering what was taking so long. The wheels of justice do grind very slowly. There was a court order to produce the children by Jan. 30th, which she missed. No doubt there was more red tape to get an arrest warrant for her in another state, and then to track her down. Apparently Chad was not arrested. 

Quote

I really have no expectation that we'll find out anything about the kids, unless the current husband turns on her.   

I think we all know what happened to the kids. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Here's another link with some more photos.  That mug shot of mom is crazy! Man, she looks really ticked off in that photo, like she might hurt someone! 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8029415/PICTURED-moment-cult-mom-Lori-Vallow-arrested-Hawaii.html

 

[cooksdelight]

I follow Nancy Grace on Facebook, she just shared this...

https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/02/21/lori-vallow-asked-friend-to-lie-for-her-relative-who-was-shot-at-says-the-person-who-pulled-to-trigger-was-driving-missing-tylee-ryans-car/?fbclid=IwAR0-weruWcq9kOgJAVU_TvJ7xLufP67c810c8lD9a4O_-B5YBLfbawPWh6c

[saber5055]

I heard about the arrest on Chicago radio early this morning, but not again and not on any tv news. Glad you guys are keeping up on it so I can follow what's happening. I'd be all for some "Guantanamo Bay" interrogation techniques to get her to tell where the boy's body is. The daughter might be dead or might have been sold into a poly-religious cult "marriage." I'm 50-50 on that.

[SunnyBeBe]

The upside is that she’s not smart enough to keep her mouth shut while in custody. She’ll likely try to blame someone else OR make up a scenario of an accident that only an idiot would believe. 

[Melina22]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Here's another link with some more photos.  That mug shot of mom is crazy! Man, she looks really ticked off in that photo, like she might hurt someone! 

Yikes. She really does look mad. She's probably missing a pedicure or something. 

[druzy]

Her court appearance today

Charging documents related to the arrest of Lori Vallow

Edited February 22, 2020 by druzy

[druzy]

Chad leaving the courtroom

 

[druzy]

Affidavit of Probable Cause

[druzy]

Lori, her brother, JJ and Tylee went into Yellowstone Park on 9/8/20. I don't think they all came out 😢

[Melina22]

Wow! That affadavit makes it seem virtually impossible that those children are alive. This makes the carefree demeanor of Lori and Chad in Hawaii seem downright evil. 

I find both Lori and Chad's behaviour in the court room seems like they consider themselves somewhat above-it-all. Like they're the victims in all this. 

[druzy]

Apparently Lori and Chad only had a commitment ceremony so they aren't legally married. There's no spousal privilege. Chad can testify against her.

ETA: some reports are saying it was a legal marriage. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by druzy

[SunnyBeBe]

40 minutes ago, druzy said:

Apparently Lori and Chad only had a commitment ceremony so they aren't legally married. There's no spousal privilege. Chad can testify against her.

ETA: some reports are saying it was a legal marriage. 

For some reason, I get the impression that they believe they are above normal people rules.  You know, being how special they are.

[druzy]

Lori Vallow is booked into Kauai Community Correctional Center.

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by druzy

[druzy]

Last known sighting of JJ captured on neighbors doorbell camera

 

[iMonrey]

"The Woman Who Couldn't Scream" - sounds like a low-budget horror film. Good on Katie's parents getting Katie's law passed in 31 states. I have to admit I spent the whole two hours wondering how you spell Jay Anne. Jayann? Jaye Ann? I saw on Katie's tombstone her middle name was Jaye so I'm assuming her mother's name is Jaye Ann or Jayeanne or something. Never heard that name before. Also? What was up with her eyeshadow? It's like she had this line of blue in the crease of her eyelid and that was it.

This episode got me to thinking - they spent a good chunk of it focusing on the boyfriend for the murder and showing his picture. Does he have to give his permission for them to use it on this show? Seems like he would or he could sue. But why would he?

Surprised they didn't have a little update about Lori Vallow since they did that story just last week. Lazy!

[Ellee]

Maybe we can get lucky and Chad Daybell is praying to share a prison cell with Vallow.  He’d have it half right anyway.  I realize ‘innocent until proven guilty’ but ......

 

[druzy]

1 minute ago, Ellee said:

Maybe we can get lucky and Chad Daybell is praying to share a prison cell with Vallow.  He’d have it half right anyway.  I realize ‘innocent until proven guilty’ but ......

 

He looks like he can break easy. I think he's going to start talking.

Also, I read that Lori was on Wheel of Fortune. It hasn't been confirmed but thought I would share.

[Ohmo]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

This episode got me to thinking - they spent a good chunk of it focusing on the boyfriend for the murder and showing his picture. Does he have to give his permission for them to use it on this show? Seems like he would or he could sue. But why would he?

I wouldn't think so.  Those pictures could have come from Katie, her family, or friends.  So what if he's in them?  I don't think anyone can contest pictures that they're in if the pictures belong to someone else.  The only exception might be a minor child, which Joe was not.

JJ and Tylee: I know the likelihood is high that they're dead, but we do know that compounds like Warren Jeffs's compound do exist.  Elizabeth Smart survived.  She was expected to be dead. Jaycee Dugard was found in a "hidden" backyard after what?  Decades?  Yes, there was David Koresh and  Waco, but there are also examples of fundamentalist fanatics hiding their captives, not killing them.  So, a sliver of me still hopes.  It's only been 5 months, and wasn't Elizabeth Smart found at 9 months?

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I wouldn't think so.  Those pictures could have come from Katie, her family, or friends.  So what if he's in them?  I don't think anyone can contest pictures that they're in if the pictures belong to someone else.  The only exception might be a minor child, which Joe was not.

JJ and Tylee: I know the likelihood is high that they're dead, but we do know that compounds like Warren Jeffs's compound do exist.  Elizabeth Smart survived.  She was expected to be dead. Jaycee Dugard was found in a "hidden" backyard after what?  Decades?  Yes, there was David Koresh and  Waco, but there are also examples of fundamentalist fanatics hiding their captives, not killing them.  So, a sliver of me still hopes.  It's only been 5 months, and wasn't Elizabeth Smart found at 9 months?

If either or both of the kids were hidden away in a compound somewhere, Lori could still produce them. Or at the very least have a picture taken of the kid(s) holding a current newspaper to show they are alive and well. Or are you saying they could have been taken against Lori's will? If so why would she not have reported them missing, rather than lie continually about where they are?

The info in the affidavit posted above is quite damning. She claimed JJ was with his grandmother, until she was told that it was the grandmother who reported him missing. She then told authorities he was with a friend of hers, then asked the friend to lie, which the friend refused to do. She was found to be in possession of both kids' birth certificates, JJ's Ipad and Tylee's bank card. Chad told some of his relatives that Lori was an empty nester, and others that she had no minor children. And she lied about home schooling JJ, since there is no evidence of that. 

I hope the state where she will be tried has the death penalty. 

 

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

This episode got me to thinking - they spent a good chunk of it focusing on the boyfriend for the murder and showing his picture. Does he have to give his permission for them to use it on this show? Seems like he would or he could sue. But why would he?

 

That happens quite often though in these shows where the boyfriend is a suspect, and they show his picture. Sometimes he ends up being interviewed for the show,  but not always. Sometimes they even focus on some random guy, picture included, who as it turns out has nothing to do with the murder. I often wonder about those cases, where someone innocent who does not even know the victim gets dragged into the story, complete with name and picture.

I did though give the side eye to the boyfriend, not because I thought he did it, but because he was professing to love the victim, who he fought with because he had his tongue down another female's throat. And it sounds like it was not an unusual occurrence. Why do some women put up with that behaviour?

On this forum we often comment on the randomness of these murders - at the wrong place at the wrong time. 

[TVbitch]

Tragic about last night's random rape/murder. This is why I go into immediate defense mode whenever any man asks me if I need help. Hate to be an asshole to guys who really do just want to help, but, sorry can't trust ya.

Good on Mom for for saving God knows how many lives for her efforts on the new DNA law. 

Meanwhile Dad is looking forward to going to heaven and meeting all the murder victims who's crimes they helped solve. .....um, that part was a bit awkward. 

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

If either or both of the kids were hidden away in a compound somewhere, Lori could still produce them. Or at the very least have a picture taken of the kid(s) holding a current newspaper to show they are alive and well. Or are you saying they could have been taken against Lori's will? If so why would she not have reported them missing, rather than lie continually about where they are?

I'm saying that I'm hoping that Lori is hiding them because she doesn't want to produce them.  For whatever sick and twisted reason that might be, it's still better than both kids being dead.  Like Koresh before he burned his compound or Heaven's Gate where they found the bodies of a bunch of followers in one location, I'm hoping that the kids are somewhere with Lor's fellow cult crazies, and the cops are somehow able to figure out where that is.  It's a slim to none shot, I know, but Lori's continued attempts to access JJ's former classroom website give me pause.  If those attempts were recent, they could point to JJ being alive.

[Annber03]

8 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I did though give the side eye to the boyfriend, not because I thought he did it, but because he was professing to love the victim, who he fought with because he had his tongue down another female's throat. And it sounds like it was not an unusual occurrence. Why do some women put up with that behaviour?

Right? And while I get the constant harassment and suspicion would bother some, at the same time, you should know by now that investigators always look at those close to the victim initially, so while it may suck to be under suspicion, if you can find a way to help, both to clear your own name and to aid in the case in general, why not just go ahead and do so? You claim you love this woman so much, but you won't do anything to help her? Okay. 

7 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Meanwhile Dad is looking forward to going to heaven and meeting all the murder victims who's crimes they helped solve. .....um, that part was a bit awkward. 

Yeah, I was kinda like, "...kay..." at that bit, too. 

But I am glad that they finally were able to solve the case and her family could get some answers at long last. And I'm glad those two other girls were able to escape their ordeal as well. It really sucks that some guy creepily peeping around your neighborhood doesn't raise enough alarms in some people's eyes-that's how a lot of these creeps get started, after all. 

[SunnyBeBe]

22 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I wouldn't think so.  Those pictures could have come from Katie, her family, or friends.  So what if he's in them?  I don't think anyone can contest pictures that they're in if the pictures belong to someone else.  The only exception might be a minor child, which Joe was not.

JJ and Tylee: I know the likelihood is high that they're dead, but we do know that compounds like Warren Jeffs's compound do exist.  Elizabeth Smart survived.  She was expected to be dead. Jaycee Dugard was found in a "hidden" backyard after what?  Decades?  Yes, there was David Koresh and  Waco, but there are also examples of fundamentalist fanatics hiding their captives, not killing them.  So, a sliver of me still hopes.  It's only been 5 months, and wasn't Elizabeth Smart found at 9 months?

Oh yes, there's always hope in my eyes, but, with this couple, I'm asking what is in it for them......they are very selfish and motivated by their OWN selfish agenda.   It seems that people in their way got out of their way by dying.  So, what was in it for them?  What I do find really amazing is that they thought that two children could disappear, despite having many people who loved them and who would miss them, without a serious police investigation.  That's pretty bold or pretty stupid. 

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh yes, there's always hope in my eyes, but, with this couple, I'm asking what is in it for them......they are very selfish and motivated by their OWN selfish agenda.   It seems that people in their way got out of their way by dying.  So, what was in it for them?  What I do find really amazing is that they thought that two children could disappear, despite having many people who loved them and who would miss them, without a serious police investigation.  That's pretty bold or pretty stupid. 

Well, if she did kill them, she may soon give that up in an effort to save her ass.  The location of the kids (either alive or dead) is what everyone wants, and she's losing leverage fast.  Investigations are opening into the deaths of Charles, Tammy, and Alex.  That's three actual bodies.  Unless Lori is absolutely positive that there is no thread that ties her or Chad to any of those killings, the one valuable piece of information that she has is about the location of JJ and Tylee.  She's now actually in custody with ongoing investigations surrounding her.

If she wants to save her skin (especially when the world doesn't end in July), revealing JJ and Tylee's fate would be the way to do it.

I also think the Dateline report just set the country off and helped spur her arrest, I really do.  From what I saw on social media, it was a collective HELL TO THE NO that she wasn't in jail.  People were irate, which I think kicked the Rexburg PD into gear to file charges with whatever they had (her refusal to produce the kids).

[Fable]

2 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I also think the Dateline report just set the country off and helped spur her arrest, I really do.  From what I saw on social media, it was a collective HELL TO THE NO that she wasn't in jail.  People were irate, which I think kicked the Rexburg PD into gear to file charges with whatever they had (her refusal to produce the kids).

I didn’t see this episode, and what was odd about that is that I checked my On Demand the day after it originally aired, and it was up, but I wasn’t able to watch at that time, so I went back the next day, and the episode had been pulled.  I then read about the arrest, and a few days later, it was back in the rotation.  It makes me wonder if law enforcement was making some breaks in the case and asked NBC to pull it until an arrest could be made. 

[JudyObscure]

I once asked some Jehovah's Witnesses ( not Later Day Saints) about their communion services and they said that they pass around the bread and wine but only a few people in their congregation partake, those people being ones who are part of the 144,000 who will get to Heaven, the rest staying on Earth after the second coming of Christ.  I asked how those people knew they were part of the 144,000 and they didn't know.

Now I ask you, there have been approximately 61 billion people on Earth since the time of Jesus, what are the odds that more than one of that tiny group of elect would be alive at the same time?  What kind of monumental ego and delusion would make anyone think they are part of the Elect and better than the other 60 billion plus? 

Does Chad think he's one because his missionary buddies kept talking about how humble he was?  I think the buddy Keith talked to  secretly believed Chad really was one of them. 

My boring old Methodist pastor teaches that Revelation is a vision someone had about the fall of Rome. It would save us all from a lot of doomsday cults if everyone saw it that way.

One thing I want to ask all the preppers is what they think about Matthew 24:36, Jesus saying,  “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."  Yet all these ordinary blowhards think they have it figured out.  I loathe these two even without knowing exactly what happened to the children.

[rlc]

On 2/22/2020 at 12:23 PM, iMonrey said:

This episode got me to thinking - they spent a good chunk of it focusing on the boyfriend for the murder and showing his picture. Does he have to give his permission for them to use it on this show? Seems like he would or he could sue. But why would he?

That really bothered me about this episode. Sure, the boyfriend was sketchy with not submitting a DNA sample and cheated on her, but they spent an unfair amount of time implying that he was a murderer considering that the editors knew that he did not commit the crime.

[SunnyBeBe]

Ref/ Vallow and Daybell.  Since they believe that the end will come in July, why didn't they just leave everyone alone and let things simmer until then?  I would think that if you know it's over in July 2020, then, bid your time, because, there is so little time left.  Why would you do things that would put you in jail?  And, if the end is in July, then, go ahead and tell all there is.  It's not like she'd be in prison long, because, she would be free come July.  Her continued silence tells me that she does not believe the end is in July.  She doesn't want a 25 year sentence, because, she believes that's exactly what she might serve......25 years.  Maybe, more if they can prove she had a hand in more murders. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by SunnyBeBe

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I once asked some Jehovah's Witnesses ( not Later Day Saints) about their communion services and they said that they pass around the bread and wine but only a few people in their congregation partake, those people being ones who are part of the 144,000 who will get to Heaven, the rest staying on Earth after the second coming of Christ.  I asked how those people knew they were part of the 144,000 and they didn't know.

Now I ask you, there have been approximately 61 billion people on Earth since the time of Jesus, what are the odds that more than one of that tiny group of elect would be alive at the same time?  What kind of monumental ego and delusion would make anyone think they are part of the Elect and better than the other 60 billion plus? 

One of many, many issues I tend to have with the more fundamentalist/extremist religious people out there. It's a dangerous mix of arrogance and ignorance. Basically, if any religious person starts talking about the end times and how they're part of some special group that gets to witness and survive it and all that jazz, run. Just run. That way only lies madness, stupidity, and in the more dramatic moments, possible death.

[Ellee]

How do the other members not realize with the many deaths that they might be next?   And if they are not concerned about dying themselves, one of their babies might be next?  I just don’t understand.  

 

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Ellee said:

How do the other members not realize with the many deaths that they might be next?   And if they are not concerned about dying themselves, one of their babies might be next?  I just don’t understand.  

 

Maybe they are concerned, Ellee, but afraid to let anyone know they've started to have doubts.  I would  be pretending to being on board with it all, but ever so busy hoarding canned goods, so that I wouldn't have time for all the cult's  pot-luck suppers.

[iMonrey]

Quote

That really bothered me about this episode. Sure, the boyfriend was sketchy with not submitting a DNA sample and cheated on her, but they spent an unfair amount of time implying that he was a murderer considering that the editors knew that he did not commit the crime.

That's par for the course on Dateline though. But it's the first time it occurred to me to wonder how they can get away with showing his photo without his permission. Ohmo was of the opinion that the photo probably belonged to Katie or someone in her family, but still. Showing a person's face on TV? And spending an hour implying they murdered someone? I  don't see why they aren't sued more often.

Quote

Her continued silence tells me that she does not believe the end is in July.  She doesn't want a 25 year sentence, because, she believes that's exactly what she might serve......25 years. 

She might not last that long. They don't treat child murderers very well in prison. I know, I've seen Orange is the New Black. 😁

[SunnyBeBe]

On 2/15/2020 at 8:49 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

Sadly, unless Lori or the husband confess, I'm guessing no one will ever find out what happened to the children.      

Reminds me oh Haleigh Cummings.  Those responsible never have spoken as to what happened, even after going to prison for other crimes. Very infuriating.

[ButterQueen]

On 2/15/2020 at 5:52 PM, Mondrianyone said:

I think it would also have to be bigger in order for them to live a lavish lifestyle on the income from those self-published books of his, but who knows how many loons are snapping them up.  I looked at his author page on Amazon, and the most recent reader comments are asking where the children are, so maybe that's an indication that whatever sales have been, they'll start to take a hit.

I just realized that I always see @walnutqueen on this board and that she seems not to have been around for a while now.  Does anyone know if she's okay?  I hope so.

I hope walnutqueen is okay as well.  We used to message regularly, but I’ve not been on the boards much since October.  My husband has terminal lung cancer.

[Annber03]

I'm so sorry to hear that, @ButterQueen.

[Mondrianyone]

Very sad news, @ButterQueen.  I wish you both all my best.

[cooksdelight]

@ButterQueen I am so sorry to hear your news. A good friend of mine is battling stage 4 pancreatic and lung cancer. I just get so mad at the drug companies for charging so much, it’s insane. Will keep you and your husband in my prayers.

[JudyObscure]

That's the one thing I really hate about my otherwise beloved message boards.  People you've grown to like so much and who feel like real friends, just disappear. 

[Lunacat]

On 2/23/2020 at 12:13 AM, Annber03 said:

Right? And while I get the constant harassment and suspicion would bother some, at the same time, you should know by now that investigators always look at those close to the victim initially, so while it may suck to be under suspicion, if you can find a way to help, both to clear your own name and to aid in the case in general, why not just go ahead and do so? You claim you love this woman so much, but you won't do anything to help her? Okay. 

Yeah, I was kinda like, "...kay..." at that bit, too. 

But I am glad that they finally were able to solve the case and her family could get some answers at long last. And I'm glad those two other girls were able to escape their ordeal as well. It really sucks that some guy creepily peeping around your neighborhood doesn't raise enough alarms in some people's eyes-that's how a lot of these creeps get started, after all. 

I don’t disagree that I’d want my name cleared, but how many times has that video made the rounds that tell people to not talk to the police and lawyer up if you’re innocent? His behavior was crappy - yes. But I don’t blame his parents for being nervous that the police would just pin the murder on their son and call it a day and telling him to lay low. 

[Annber03]

That's true. Lord knows we've seen plenty of stories where police get tunnel vision and refuse to entertain any other suspects, after all. And as frustrating as it may be to not give up stuff to help clear your name, and while the way this guy went about it may have been rather odd and not helped his case any, there's a reason people are supposed to have rights when being treated as a person of interest/potential suspect in an investigation. 

 

[TVbitch]

For those who will sink that low, Dr. Phil has Lori Vallow's family on today. I'm gonna record it.