All Episodes Discussion

[ridethemaverick]

You know what's easier than commissioning someone to kill your pregnant girlfriend? Wearing a condom. 

That piece of shit is right where he belongs.

[hoosiermom]

I was flabbergasted when he said “I didn't get my share” (talking about the money he embezzled) and then gave that shit eating grin like he was so proud of himself. What a smug,self centered, soulless bastard.

Edited October 21, 2017 by hoosiermom
It am old

[teebax]

9 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

You know what's easier than commissioning someone to kill your pregnant girlfriend? Wearing a condom. 

That piece of shit is right where he belongs.

I just came here to post something similar. I'm astounded by how many people we see on Dateline (and other shows) who seem to have no idea of where babies come from. If you don't want to be a father,  there are easy ways not to become one. 

I really don't understand why his baby mama had another kid with him when she thought he tried to have her hurt.

[LGGirl]

13 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

You know what's easier than commissioning someone to kill your pregnant girlfriend? Wearing a condom. 

That piece of shit is right where he belongs.

Agree.  The look on his face when he was found guilty made my night.  

The victim's family seemed like such nice ladies that I wanted to be part of their family.   I really felt bad for them.  

Edited October 21, 2017 by LGGirl

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, teebax said:

I'm astounded by how many people we see on Dateline (and other shows) who seem to have no idea of where babies come from. If you don't want to be a father,  there are easy ways not to become one. 

I think there needs to be a huge public health campaign destigmatizing vasectomies it would cut down on the murders and deadbeat dads.

[Mannahatta]

I just watched "One Moment" (Derek Paul Smyer). Wow. What a psychopathic narcissist. I bet his lawyers wished he had never taken the witness stand. The smirking, the barely contained laughter, was truly appalling. So much for the veneer of superficial charm. That went out the window whenever he thought he could prove that he's smarter than everyone else.

I wished that Dateline had shown more of the trial testimony - especially from his daughter. It sounded like she had a lot more to say and probably more reality based than his sister's glowing accolades.

As to the issue of avoiding unwanted pregnancies: most birth control methods aren't 100% effective, not everyone is pro-choice, and sadly a guy like Smyer probably wouldn't get a vasectomy. He'll think that'll make him less of the manly man he imagines himself to be. But I do wonder just how conscientious they were about birth control and if the 2 women involved actually planned to get pregnant. Even if you have family to help you out (and Crystal Taylor's family seemed like very nice people) and even if you don't want him to live with you: you would think that deciding who is going to be the father of your child is a major life decision. If you can avoid it - why bring a kid into a world that isn't wanted by the father? Life is complicated enough.

I also wonder if he had threatened Crystal and that's why she was crying when she got off the phone, and also made those comments to her sister. It's so sad she couldn't bring herself to tell them more.

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, Mannahatta said:

the barely contained laughter, w

Hell at one point he didn't even contain it.

[Ohmo]

10 hours ago, hoosiermom said:

I was flabbergasted when he said “I didn't get my share” (talking about the money he embezzled) and then gave that shit eating grin like he was so proud of himself. What a smug,self centered, soulless bastard.

I didn't like his attorney either.  Those two deserve each other.  They both were smug and arrogant, which probably explains why his attorney was stupid enough to allow Derek to testify (unless the attorney objected and Derek ignored him.)  It's TV, but watch Bull for crying out loud.  Defendant behavior matters.  Plus, one of his kids testified against him.  She knows what he is.

About the whole condom issue, I doubt that would work on Derek.  If he doesn't think he should have to pay child support, does anyone think he'd really exert the effort to use a condom?  He'd probably regard it as an inconvenience that he shouldn't have to do.  Condoms are a small example of his larger issue.  He's too entitled to think he should have to do anything that he doesn't want to do.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Mannahatta said:

I also wonder if he had threatened Crystal and that's why she was crying when she got off the phone, and also made those comments to her sister. It's so sad she couldn't bring herself to tell them more.

On that note, I'm always struck by just how often you hear about the "If something happens to me, _____ did it" conversations happening on these shows. It's odd to me that that doesn't read as a bigger warning sign for some people in these shows sometimes, 'cause that's not exactly a sentence you just casually put out there. 

Echoing everyone's thoughts on that Derek guy, too.. What a cocky little SOB. I too was quite satisfied to see his reaction when he was found guilty. Knocked the arrogance out of him pretty fast, that did. 

[partofme]

I couldn’t get over the stupidity of his first baby momma having a second kid with him when she knew he was behind her first attack.

[Tdoc72]

On 10/14/2017 at 1:08 PM, AZChristian said:

 

 Whenever a show comes on with a crime that I had not yet been aware of, I tend to Google early in the episode to find out "who done it," because I like to watch the police process as it unfolds. 

I do this as well. I'm just too impatient. Plus the shows usually leave something out so I like to have a fuller picture. But if I'm ever accused of something, my search histories  (phone, laptop, & iPad) are a big murder-y mess!

Edited October 21, 2017 by Tdoc72
To/too/2

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

On that note, I'm always struck by just how often you hear about the "If something happens to me, _____ did it" conversations happening on these shows.

Heck yeah!  If my sister ever said anything like that about a man she was with, we would be pulling the car over and having a big, long serious talk about getting far away from him. 

 

4 hours ago, Ohmo said:

About the whole condom issue, I doubt that would work on Derek

Unfortunately I think you're right.  The sort of jerk who resents paying child support, is also the sort of jerk who isn't going to bother about a condom.  We need to encourage young women to protect themselves and never depend on anything from these guys, because if a pregnancy results it's probably all going to be on her.  I would tell her, if he isn't committed enough to marry you, he isn't committed enough to father your children.  That's not to say that having a child alone isn't a viable option for some women, just don't count on any help from the man.

[sinycalone]

I thought Crystal's family seemed like such a loving, supportive group....I was glad they got to see her killer convicted and sentenced.  It didn't erase the heartbreak of losing her....but at least that jerk didn't get away with her murder.

I'm with others who can't believe the first woman had two children by him...considering what he had done to her.  And I'm also very puzzled as to why Crystal was drawn to him.  Yes, he appeared successful and apparently had some charm....but she seemed bright enough to see through that facade.  Guess not.

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, sinycalone said:

Yes, he appeared successful and apparently had some charm....but she seemed bright enough to see through that facade.

His sister can't see through that facade either.  She honestly thinks he's innocent and has been wronged.

[biakbiak]

38 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

His sister can't see through that facade either.  She honestly thinks he's innocent and has been wronged.

The only thing I liked about her was acknowledging how gracious it was for the sister to give her a hug but then she implied that both families had similar pain and grief and I went back to it liking her.

[sinycalone]

Tonight's episode - The Halloween Party - was really disturbing.  And sad.  There was no doubt about his guilt -- and, IMO, his accidental death story was full of holes.

Her two friends had me shaking my head in disbelief.  The dark-haired girl seem the most self-aware and honest about her actions that night.  I don't believe the other one felt any real remorse..  You don't leave your friend behind -- especially without her phone.

Of course, this segment did show how investigations can be hampered by people holding grudges (the girl who just wanted to get her ex bf in trouble), the idiot who made up the entire story about helping Chelsea, etc.

[pigs-in-space]

Her two friends had me shaking my head in disbelief.  The dark-haired girl seem the most self-aware and honest about her actions that night.  I don't believe the other one felt any real remorse..  You don't leave your friend behind -- especially without her phone.

Seriously!  Is she the one who said Chelsea called her later and asked to be picked up but she felt she was too drunk to drive, or was that someone else?

I wish Chelsea had called her mother for a ride.  No matter how embarrassing it is and how much your parent might get on your case about it...seriously, just call them.  

This was also another episode that was drawn out way longer than it had to be.  Usually I don't mind two hour episodes, but this one dragged.

[sinycalone]

12 minutes ago, pigs-in-space said:

 

Seriously!  Is she the one who said Chelsea called her later and asked to be picked up but she felt she was too drunk to drive, or was that someone else?

I wish Chelsea had called her mother for a ride.  No matter how embarrassing it is and how much your parent might get on your case about it...seriously, just call them.  

This was also another episode that was drawn out way longer than it had to be.  Usually I don't mind two hour episodes, but this one dragged.

Yep, she's the one and she never thought to say "I can't drive....but I'll get my _________ (husband, bf, brother, sister) to take me to get you."  I agree Chelsea should have contacted her mom..  She obviously borrowed a phone to call the one friend, so make another call with it.

It did drag on somewhat -- but I like that they included the false leads, lying "witnesses," etc.  It gave a clearer picture of why the case dragged on so long.

BTW, when the same construction guy found the body while getting fill...then found the shoe on his property...I jumped to the (wrong) conclusion that he was involved somehow.

Edited October 28, 2017 by sinycalone

[Ohmo]

34 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

I don't believe the other one felt any real remorse..  You don't leave your friend behind -- especially without her phone.

The scarier thing is that woman has four children!  She's supposedly responsible for four human beings.  When her kids reach that age, is she going to be A-OK with their friends leaving them alone at parties at all hours of the night?  That's exactly what she did!

 

18 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

ep, she's the one and she never thought to say "I can't drive....but I'll get my _________ (husband, bf, brother, sister) to take me to get you."  I agree Chelsea should have contacted her mom..  She obviously borrowed a phone to call the one friend, so make another call with it.

Exactly!  A thousand times this!  Everyone screws up and gets in over his/her head, which is what happened to Chelsea.  Yet, she managed to call someone and say "Hey, I need help.  Come get me."  When that happens, you go get them, and if you can't, you find someone to go get them until you know that person is safe.  Husband, brother, sister, neighbor, anyone that you trust.  Call a cab, an Uber....   You figure out Chelsea's address somehow and call her mother for her!  You DO SOMETHING!  You just don't leave the person!  That blonde woman is a real piece of work.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Ohmo

[CelticBlackCat]

2 hours ago, Ohmo said:

The scarier thing is that woman has four children!  She's supposedly responsible for four human beings.  When her kids reach that age, is she going to be A-OK with their friends leaving them alone at parties at all hours of the night?  That's exactly what she did!

 

Exactly!  A thousand times this!  Everyone screws up and gets in over his/her head, which is what happened to Chelsea.  Yet, she managed to call someone and say "Hey, I need help.  Come get me."  When that happens, you go get them, and if you can't, you find someone to go get them until you know that person is safe.  Husband, brother, sister, neighbor, anyone that you trust.  Call a cab, an Uber....   You figure out Chelsea's address somehow and call her mother for her!  You DO SOMETHING!  You just don't leave the person!  That blonde woman is a real piece of work.

ITA and her tearing up didn't garner any sympathy from me.

[Annabel11]

Something was definitely off with the friends. So sad to have just left her there and not to back of to find someone who would. Maybe the older friend was jealous and wanted the dark haired girl to herself. And she even said she wanted to go home after she bumped her nose and the blond just told her to drink more.  Poor girl. Abandoned.

[sinycalone]

2 hours ago, Annabel11 said:

Something was definitely off with the friends. So sad to have just left her there and not to back of to find someone who would. Maybe the older friend was jealous and wanted the dark haired girl to herself. And she even said she wanted to go home after she bumped her nose and the blond just told her to drink more.  Poor girl. Abandoned.

I could not believe the blond friend just pooh-poohed the bloody nose and Chelsea's request to go home...just keep drinking.  I don't care that she had four kids and this was a big night out for her.  At the very least get Chelsea a ride home with someone you can trust.  Or....accompany her back to her house, and rejoin the party on your own.

[LakeGal]

Glad we got Keith for the Halloween episode.  It seemed fitting.

I got the feeling that Chelsea was not completely honest with her family about what kind of party she was going to.  Her mom said if she knew it was going to be a party with hundreds there she would not have let her go.  Her sister stated that Chelsea had told her that she was just going briefly to this party and would not be there long.  I kind of doubt Chelsea would spend months making a costume to just make a short appearance at a party.  This is why she did not call her family to come and get her.  The show said that about 6 people said Chelsea had borrowed their phone that night.  Who else did she call besides the older blonde friend?  I agree that the friend was wrong not to help her get home when she called her.  But I do think when she left her at the party she assumed she would be fine because her other friend from Olga's was still there with her.  

I wish we knew the whole truth of what happened.  But the killer will never tell the whole truth.  We have to speculate that he offered her a ride home when she was desperate.  They might have even discussed having a friend in common that worked at Olga's.  But how did her shoe end up on that property?  I wanted to see a map of the area with Big Mike's place and the shoe location and the shed plus where her body was found.  

Big Mike made his own problems.  Refusing to let them search his house without a warrant.  Then refusing the DNA.  He just kept the suspicion on himself.  

[woodscommaelle]

I thought the human trafficking route (literally...wasn't she out searching in the middle of the night??) blonde 'friend' went was strange as shit.  But I guess you try everything (except getting a ride for said friend) when your friend is missing. 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

ITA and her tearing up didn't garner any sympathy from me.

But CelticBlackCat she didn't tear up.  Not a drop anywhere.  She did ceremoniously dab her eye with her sausage finger but no tear whatsoever.

I actually screamed when I heard they left her.  You don't leave your friends, ever!!!  I agree that the dark haired friend showed some signs of remorse but the sausage-finger chick actually said "Acting as a good citizen I told her I couldn't pick her up because I had too much to drink."  

I only hope the image of Chelsea's face appears to her as she settles down for the night - and appears first thing in the morning.

I just cannot believe that women who behave that way would have the gall to seek out their 15 minutes of fame on Dateline.  

Still angry about this episode. 

Keith should have taken a bat to the "good citizen".  Good citizen my ass.

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, LakeGal said:

I got the feeling that Chelsea was not completely honest with her family about what kind of party she was going to.  Her mom said if she knew it was going to be a party with hundreds there she would not have let her go.  Her sister stated that Chelsea had told her that she was just going briefly to this party and would not be there long.  I kind of doubt Chelsea would spend months making a costume to just make a short appearance at a party.  This is why she did not call her family to come and get her.  The show said that about 6 people said Chelsea had borrowed their phone that night.  Who else did she call besides the older blonde friend?  I agree that the friend was wrong not to help her get home when she called her.  But I do think when she left her at the party she assumed she would be fine because her other friend from Olga's was still there with her.  

That still doesn't fly with me.  Sure, Chelsea probably lied to her mother.  What 22-year old is going to tell her mother "Hey Mom, I'm going to this Halloween party, and I might get plastered."  People lie to their parents about parties.   My problem still heavily remains on the shoulders of Blonde Mommy.  People do get rides home from people at parties, but Blonde Mommy got a phone call later from Chelsea.  At that point, as far as I'm concerned, Blonde Mommy owns a significant amount of responsibility in this situation because she KNEW that Chelsea needed help and did nothing.  Chelsea made the "I got in over my head and need help here" phone call.  She reached out, and that call usually happens with siblings as the "Don't tell Mom and Dad" phone call.  Or it's "the roommate bailing roommate out of a jam" phone call.  When you get that call, you are responsible.  It doesn't sound like Chelsea managed to call her other friend, but if she had, I'd hold that friend responsible as well.  You call her mother and say, Hey, Chelsea's in trouble.  Go get her.  You can discuss the details later," or you handle it another way as I said upthread, but you DO SOMETHING!

Edited October 28, 2017 by Ohmo

[ridethemaverick]

Well that was infuriating.

Blonde lady almost seemed smug when she recounted the phone call story. Who does that? And brunette friend left her there without her phone and didn't even think about her until late the next day. Who does that? Those two were horrible, horrible friends, my goodness. And blonde mom's solution to humiliation and a nose injury is to drink more? Garbage. If I were either one of them I would have never shown my face on tv.

But obviously the killer was worse. He might actually be one of the biggest losers I've seen on this show, socially speaking. All murderers are losers but this guy seemed content to do nothing but smoke weed and have sex all day. The two other losers who lied to police also pissed me off and I'm so glad they got thrown in jail for it.

Edited October 28, 2017 by ridethemaverick

[sinycalone]

Meant to mention this earlier:  I suspected Big Mike did not want to give the DNA sample because he would be caught for another ugly incident of some kind in his past.  Again, so many people lied, dissembled, avoided helping the police, etc.  All the time the cops wasted on false reports and uncooperative idiots like Big Mike was ridiculous.  Yet, they have to investigate every possibility.

I did want to find the one kid's sister and tell her she advised her brother well:  call the damn police or I will.  

[Guest]

Did it strike anyone else as odd that these women spent all summer preparing for a Halloween party?  

If that's the level of summer entertainment I can see why sausage mama has four kids. 

What else you gonna do?

Edited October 28, 2017 by PsychoKlown

[Ohmo]

3 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

Big Mike did not want to give the DNA sample

I can understand this.  If you're arrested, that's another deal.  You're actually suspected of doing something, but just to offer up your DNA in this day and age?  If there was assurance that it would be destroyed (and I could see it being destroyed), then I'd agree.  However, to have my DNA kept in a data base forever once it's taken, even if I've been cleared of wrongdoing and not been arrested?  No thank you.

[walnutqueen]

3 hours ago, LakeGal said:

Big Mike made his own problems.  Refusing to let them search his house without a warrant.  Then refusing the DNA.  He just kept the suspicion on himself.  

 

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

I can understand this.  If you're arrested, that's another deal.  You're actually suspected of doing something, but just to offer up your DNA in this day and age?  If there was assurance that it would be destroyed (and I could see it being destroyed), then I'd agree.  However, to have my DNA kept in a data base forever once it's taken, even if I've been cleared of wrongdoing and not been arrested?  No thank you.

I would NEVER let cops search without a warrant, nor would I provide DNA (or anything else, for that matter).  Not because I have anything to hide, or intend to commit a future crime, but because cops have no rights to this information, and often misuse it.  There is no conformity to how your DNA is collected and saved - some jurisdictions maintain their own databases, and have very lax standards.

Big Mike allowed people to search his mother's property (without them even asking for permission, and with them setting up camp there without asking, too).  The cops automatically looked at him suspiciously because of his "type".  He was smart not to get involved - they had 600+ party-going suspects to look at, yet he was singled out from the onset.  No wonder he was cautious.

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, sinycalone said:

I suspected Big Mike did not want to give the DNA sample because he would be caught for another ugly incident of some kind in his past. 

Perhaps but I do find wide net DNA sampling and storing problematic so I probably would not give my DNA without the cops getting a warrant for it and I have never committed a crime. 

Ihad much more of an issue with him not allowing them to search his property.

[walnutqueen]

38 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Perhaps but I do find wide net DNA sampling and storing problematic so I probably would not give my DNA without the cops getting a warrant for it and I have never committed a crime. 

Ihad much more of an issue with him not allowing them to search his property.

I thought he allowed numerous searches of the property - it was the residence he refused a search of without a warrant.  Had there been any reasonable cause, the cops could (and would) have executed a search warrant.

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

the cops could (and would) have executed a search warrant.

They ended up getting a search warrant and searching the residence. Yeah I don't really have a problem with him holding out for a warrant but I just found him to be a dick.

[UsernameFatigue]

Ugh, I am glad I am not the only one who was disturbed by the blonde mommy friend. Now I assume that it was her sister driving and maybe her sister demanded they leave when they did (since sis had to work at 6 am) but ya, to blow off your friend when she calls for a ride after you have ditched her? I also thought it was odd that at 30, she was hanging around with 22 year olds. Seems like she was trying to relive her early 20s, or maybe with 4 kids she was already a mother by that age. Was she married? When she talked about putting her kids to bed and then going out driving around looking for Chelsea, I wondering if she was leaving her kids home alone. She certainly seemed like the type that would.

[ari333]

That blonde chick "friend" was appalling. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.  Also, I missed part of the show. Did the killer pick Chelsea up bc she was walking or how did he get her? 

[sinycalone]

4 minutes ago, ari333 said:

That blonde chick "friend" was appalling. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.  Also, I missed part of the show. Did the killer pick Chelsea up bc she was walking or how did he get her? 

We'll probably never really know how Chelsea wound up in his car because the murderer changed his story so many times....and lied outright so many times.  My guess: he saw a potential victim at the party for his idea of a good time (weed and sex)...she was cold, tired, and had drunk a lot.  Her friends had abandoned her.  As someone else mentioned, he may have mentioned their mutual friend (who worked at Olga's etc.), and she was desperate enough to accept his offer of a ride home.  He is scum.

[MadeleineElster]

I generally like Dateline even if you pretty much know within 5 minutes that the husband did it.  But I watched this show in disbelief at the assemblage of individuals with absolutely no moral compass or sense of responsibility.  Or intelligence for that matter.  From Big Mike, who was a douche from the get-go, to the so-called "friends" who left her alone and without her phone (I can't think of a more helpless situation for a young girl who has had too much to drink, as walking into a pole would seem to imply), to the "scrapper" who didn't think he needed to tell anyone about the evidence he found, and so on. One of the few heroes of the story was the scrapper's sister who made him contact the police.  She had the good sense not to appear on camera with the rest of these idiots.  They kept talking about the small close-knit town-- well, not really.  What a bunch of self-centered twits. 

So many of the men in the show were "baby daddies" but clearly unemployed or living with their mothers.  Pretty much everyone was lacking in any sort of goal or direction outside immediate pleasure (such as Mr. Marijuana and Sex guy).   They were all in some sort of stunted adolescence.  Perhaps that's why they were still in that town.

And I agree with the other comments that the show wasn't worth 2 hours.  I don't know why they stretch this out-- just make it 90 minutes, if it's too much for one hour. 

Bottom line: this show was a sad commentary on the lack of empathy or compassion among the young people in this episode. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by MadeleineElster
typo

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, MadeleineElster said:

So many of the men in the show were "baby daddies" but clearly unemployed or living with their mothers.

Yes, I always notice that, too, and the note of pride in these deadbeats' voices as though just having caused a woman to get pregnant  is something to brag about.  On the other hand, the women aren't much better.  Miss Mother-of-four must have been still living with her parents if she could have gone back out after Chelsea called her for a ride home. If she had a babysitter, she would have been gone by then. I was assuming. Big Mike probably had a lot of  evidence of drugs in his mother's house or he would have allowed a search.  It's bad enough to have your kids never leave home, but when they keep bringing home babies and illegal substances it must be quite irritating.

I'm not that angry at Chelsea's friends, though.  What these shows always try to do is avoid speaking  ill of the dead and so we don't always get the full story about the victim.  She didn't drive, wanted to go home after hurting her nose, but later didn't stay with her friends.   When blonde friend said she was too drunk to go and get Chelsea, Chelsea acted like it was no big deal and that she had other options.

We heard that there were several men Chelsea had never dated, but "was interested in."  Now what single woman hasn't gone to a party,  looking prettier than ever before, with a certain guy in mind?  I think, after her nose quit hurting,  Chelsea didn't want to go home because she was either following after, looking for, or hanging out with a guy she liked. He either didn't respond or didn't realize she liked him and went elsewhere, at which point Chelsea got a little drunker and started to cry and started wanting to go home.  By then everyone was drunk or high and looking to "hook-up," and  Chelsea was in a very vulnerable, ultimately fatal position.

So I blame that kind of party, and that way of life for young people, more than the young women who weren't used to being really responsible for friends, particularly friends who were actually hoping to go home with someone else at the point when they, themselves went home.

[sinycalone]

IMO, it's just as likely that the blonde friend downplayed Chelsea's reaction to her refusal to pick her up.  Instead of it being no big deal, Chelsea could have really been begging further.\

[ari333]

Chelsea wanted to go home when she bumped her nose. She wanted to go home later and asked for a ride. *sigh*  I did not like the blonde "friend." A party of 600 with people in masks cannot be a safe situation with everyone drinking and smoking and whatnot. Not blaming Chelsea. Just saying that , imo, the friends should not have left her in that kind of situation with no phone.  Mike came across as ... IDK what.  Not good

[ChristmasJones]

I'm trying to remember why Chelsea ended up staying at the party longer than her friends?

Assuming she could have left with them earlier, then I think its fair to say that just as they had responsibility to pick her up after they left earlier, she had responsibility to leave with them when they chose to leave.  The burden to leave the party together can't just be put on the friends, IMO.

Each weekend, millions of young people hook up at parties, and only a very tiny percentage end up murder victims.  Its easy with 20/20 hindsight to say that a lot of bad choices were made that night, but 99.9% of the time when those same choices are made- nothing bad happens.  Sometimes, people make bad choices that contribute to them becoming victims. That is not blaming the victim, its just acknowledging that people can do things to make themselves more vulnerable.

I remember being that age and feeling pretty invincible.  When I was in high school, a girl from my school was murdered. Her mother was divorced and had gone to a bar and met a man, and brought him home. The man ended up torturing and murdering both of them.  This event planted a very strong seed in my mind. When I got to college, I never considered going home with a guy from a club or party because of that murder. 

However, one night, while on a weekend trip, I did meet a guy at a club and instead of going back with my friends to our hotel, I spent the rest of the night with him. We drove around and parked at different places around the city to make out, and then around sunrise, he drove me back to the hotel. I did that even though I was consciously aware of the danger. I could have ended up dead or raped because of it. Fortunately for me, he wasn't the sort of person to do such a thing, and instead, I had a fun night. But it was a very risky decision because there was no way to know what kind of person I was dealing with when I left with him.

I'm sure many of us have similar stories of dangerous situations we put ourselves in at some point.

Edited October 29, 2017 by ChristmasJones

[Ohmo]

13 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

So I blame that kind of party, and that way of life for young people, more than the young women who weren't used to being really responsible for friends, particularly friends who were actually hoping to go home with someone else at the point when they, themselves went home.

If you've had 4 kids by that point, you better be used to being responsible.  That type of party is chance-y, I agree, but, if you're saying that Blonde Mommy shouldn't be expected to be responsible by that point in her life, then I disagree and really fear for her children.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Ohmo

[JudyObscure]

59 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

If you've had 4 kids by that point, you better be used to being responsible

Just the fact that she has  had four kids while apparently working a low wage job and with no home or husband makes me think she's not particularly responsible, but even if she was, responsibility for your children and responsibility for an adult friend  are two very different things. As nice as it would have been, particularly in hindsight, Blondie really wasn't responsible for Chelsea.  Chelsea was a grown woman, responsible for herself. 

 

1 hour ago, ChristmasJones said:

Each weekend, millions of young people hook up at parties, and only a very tiny percentage end up murder victims

 Exactly.  My misspent youth was during the days before cell phones so the fact that she didn't have one with her is not a big deal to me and like Chelsea I didn't drive.  I went to lots of parties by myself, as well as many more with friends.  We really didn't feel like we needed to babysit each other and it would have been highly resented if we tried to make one of our friends go home if she had wanted to stay, particularly if she had a hot guy in her sights. It all seems frightening and dangerous to me now, but as you say, young people feel invincible and they feel like adults, not children.   I don't blame Chelsea or her friends.  I blame the murderer.

[pigs-in-space]

I don't believe Chelsea intended to stay later - she got separated from her friends in the huge crowd, and after a half-hearted search they left without finding her.

If they had found her, and Chelsea said she wanted to stay, that's one thing, but that was not the case - they were too anxious to leave right then and didn't want to spend another 10 minutes looking for her.

[ari333]

49 minutes ago, pigs-in-space said:

I don't believe Chelsea intended to stay later - she got separated from her friends in the huge crowd, and after a half-hearted search they left without finding her.

If they had found her, and Chelsea said she wanted to stay, that's one thing, but that was not the case - they were too anxious to leave right then and didn't want to spend another 10 minutes looking for her.

I agree. She wanted to leave... twice. I also agree that I blame the murderer, but if she had been able to leave. when she wanted....    I wish she had called her parent or a cab. 

[partofme]

I thought it was really shitty of blonde mom to leave Chelsea at the party to begin with and then to not come when she called.   Yes the actual murderer is ultimately to blame but if she had been a better friend this would have been avoided.

Edited October 29, 2017 by partofme

[biakbiak]

Last night was the repeat of the Long Beach women who was murdered literally while police surrounded her house. I will seriously never understand why an officer didn't come into the house with her or why she shut the door. Two little things that one would never expect to end in murder but I still don't understand why those decisions were made.

[ari333]

22 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Last night was the repeat of the Long Beach women who was murdered while literally police surrounded her house. I will seriously never understand why an officer didn't come into the house with her or why she shut the door. Two little things that one would never expect to end in murder but I still don't understand why those decisions were made.

THIS ^^^^

There is a prowler. You re an older lady. Go alone and check it out even though there are many officers who could go with you, armed. Stunning. 

[rwgrab]

On 10/27/2017 at 8:27 PM, sinycalone said:

Her two friends had me shaking my head in disbelief.  The dark-haired girl seem the most self-aware and honest about her actions that night.  I don't believe the other one felt any real remorse..  You don't leave your friend behind -- especially without her phone.

Oh, the blonde friend.  Strike one, she doesn't agree to help Chelsea leave after she hits her nose and expresses a desire to get out of there ("Just drink more!"...what great advice, Dr. Friend!).  Strike two, she leaves without her friend who is dependent on her for a ride from a farm in the middle of nowhere (maybe a tougher call since her sister wanted to leave right then and the other friend had the phone).  Strike three, she doesn't do anything to help when Chelsea specifically calls her later asking for help getting home.  This one I have the hardest time with because Chelsea was reaching out obviously in dire straits and in need of assistance. 

And then at the end she has the nerve to say "I mean, I know I couldn't have done anything differently..." or something like that.  Really?  Nothing comes to mind?  You sure?  May want to reconsider that because I'm guessing if the red American Eagle shoe were on the other foot, you'd want your friend to perhaps react a little differently and help you out!