S06.E12: 365 Degrees

[Whimsy]

Quote

Shaun invites Aaron to stay with him while he has exterminators at his house and Lea realizes both men have a lot more in common than she realized. Meanwhile, Dr. Morgan Reznick wrestles with a big decision about her career and her personal life.

Original airdate 2/6/23

[Annber03]

Well. Damn. That ending with Glassman. I should've figured that something like that would happen after the way he went on about how much that house meant to him, but still... Guess that means he may be staying with Shaun and Lea a little longer than planned, then? 

Interesting case with the pregnant 13 year old. I agree that the idea of a 13 year old having sex in and of itself is...ehhh, simply because that's just a LOT of responsibility for someone that young to deal with, even under the best of circumstances. 

But at the same time, I also agree with the mom in deciding to make sure her daughter was as educated as possible - even if she tried to stop her daughter from having sex, that's often easier said than done, and it's already happened, so might as well try and make sure they're as prepared as possible, so that they're not fumbling about and adding to the list of potentially messy situations they could find themselves in. If Jordan wants to live her life by her own religious convictions, fine, more power to her. But that should not have been a topic of discussion with this particular patient. That has nothing to do with the issues surrounding this patient's situation. I liked how Shaun was just very matter-of-fact and focused on helping the girl, and letting the legal/moral/emotional sides figure themselves out elsewhere. 

I liked Lim's response to Morgan regarding the idea that men manage to have it all. "They don't. They're just less conflicted about the decisions they do make." I can understand Morgan's concerns, but it would be nice to see her be able to balance both things if she could. It would be a lot of work, for sure, but I think she'd be up to the challenge. 

[bros402]

Called it with Glassman's house when he started waxing poetic about it.

Jordan shouldn't have tried to push her views on the patient and Shaun was 100% right in shutting her down in front of the patient and her mother. If Jordan wanted to try to fight it, she should've gotten a hospital social worker involved (or talked to Lim!) to get another opinion on it. Jordan was letting her views compromise the health of the patient. If she wants to practice medicine by her religions convictions, she needs to go to a religious hospital.

Also, I'm pretty sure they'd give a 13 year old more than just some lidocaine during a biopsy like that. You think they'd at least give her some Ativan to calm her totally calm.

Also, uhhhh, is it annoying anyone else that recently they've decided to give the hospital the nickname of St. Bons? It doesn't roll off the tongue at all and it is just awkward sounding.

[thuganomics85]

Shaun's "Who is the Rapist and who is the Rape Victim?" line about the legality of their patient's sex life sounded like the world's worst title for the world's worst game show...

Definitely had mixed emotions about the case itself.  My old ass definitely thinks that thirteen is too young to be having sex due to all of the health concerns and responsibilities that come with it (plus if it ever comes out at school: that is right at the age when teens can be the absolute worst.)  At the same time, it does happen, so I understand the reasoning of at least educating and possibly providing a safe environment for it, because unless you are watching them 24/7, there is no real way to fully prevent it.  I do wonder about the boy's parents though and if they are as comfortable with it as the patient's mother. 

But I think the main issue for conflict here was even if I understood Jordan's reactions to that revelation, she really got too confrontational about it and was clearly making things even more uncomfortable (having no poker face didn't help things, although to be fair, no one really has a good one here except maybe Andrews.  Oh, and Glassman because he just sets his face to grouchy mode all the time, heh.)  Although, it was kind of fun seeing Shaun of all people being the one having to be all "Dude, time and place!" this go around.

Asher and Danny are still in the probational doghouse, but the former at least seems to be making steps towards getting back up there.  Glad the surgery worked out, but Lim really was playing with fire there.  Also glad Danny resisted the urge to relapse this go around, but I suspect that fear will always be there.

Reznick gets a great job opportunity but almost declines if after she has conversations with Park (in his one scene tonight) and Lim about being a mother and having a big job like that, but Andrews is able to talk her back into the idea that she can do both.  I'm telling y'all, Andrews is kind of becoming the MVP this season.  He's on top of things!

Glassman rooming with Shaun and Lea led to some amusing antics, butI wonder if he's going to stick around there or find a hotel now that his house burned down.  Just make sure to lock the bathroom door, people!

[possibilities]

I thought Shaun was great all episode. And it took place inside the hospital!

I rreally didn't hate anybody this week, though Jordan was really annoying. I'm fine with celibacy or abstinence, but her pushing her agenda with the patient really annoyed me. Still, I liked that she and Lea both apologized for the roughness of their conversation with each other, and I also liked that Jordan realized Danny needed help and decided to just sit with him.

 

[greekmom]

Yes Yes and Yes to all who said about Jordan and religious convictions.  It's great to have faith but you cannot let your beliefs bleed into your job when you have to follow the law. 

I found Lim and the probations case of the week boring and ff.

Glassy staying with Lea and Shaun was sweet and hilarious.  Yeah having them talk about the house you just knew something bad was going to happen.  Interesting how Shaun and Glassy were so alike. I didn't think Shaun ever stayed with Glassman in a foster parent situation.  At least they never mentioned it.  It would have been nice to see some flashbacks if he did live with Glassman.

[Daff]

8 hours ago, bros402 said:

she needs to go to a religious hospital.

 

8 hours ago, bros402 said:

recently they've decided to give the hospital the nickname of St. Bons

St. Bonaventure-noted for reconciling opposing views/philosophies. It may even be why she chose to apply. 

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

Yes Yes and Yes to all who said about Jordan and religious convictions.  It's great to have faith but you cannot let your beliefs bleed into your job when you have to follow the law. 

I found Lim and the probations case of the week boring and ff.

Glassy staying with Lea and Shaun was sweet and hilarious.  Yeah having them talk about the house you just knew something bad was going to happen.  Interesting how Shaun and Glassy were so alike. I didn't think Shaun ever stayed with Glassman in a foster parent situation.  At least they never mentioned it.  It would have been nice to see some flashbacks if he did live with Glassman.

Jordan can STFU with her pseudo-prosletyzing. Moral choices are not her purview. Have your opinion but keep it to yourself when people are dealing with life-threatening situations.

Leaving Shaun's brilliance aside for the moment (because he has the capability to visualize what others can't), I have no problems with brand new surgeons having ideas like, hey let's do for this guy what we normally do for babies. What I do roll my eyes over is them having those ideas when the experienced surgeons don't. You could argue she had blinders on, but the nature of those blinders shouldn't have precluded her from seeing that an established surgical practice that she has full knowledge of (she'd have to, as Head) wouldn't work in this situation. Come on, writers.

I thought Lea made an interesting observation about who may have learned from whom in Shaun and Glassman's relationship.

[chitowngirl]

16 hours ago, bros402 said:

Also, I'm pretty sure they'd give a 13 year old more than just some lidocaine during a biopsy like that. You think they'd at least give her some Ativan to calm her totally calm.

Also, uhhhh, is it annoying anyone else that recently they've decided to give the hospital the nickname of St. Bons? It doesn't roll off the tongue at all and it is just awkward sounding.

Heh-my 18 year old needed Ativan when he got his wisdom teeth out just so they could put in the IV!

St. Bonaventure’s Church near my house is nicknamed St. Bonnie’s.

[KaveDweller]

So did Glassman not hear Leah coming into the bathroom? I know the water was running, but I think he'd hear the footsteps and call out or something.

[Driad]

What did the episode title "365 degrees" refer to?  Sometimes they use the phrase in the script but I don't recall hearing it.

[Lukeysboat]

21 hours ago, bros402 said:

If she wants to practice medicine by her religions convictions, she needs to go to a religious hospital.

I’m not advocating for Jordan’s bedside discussion here, but in response to your comment, presumably she is at a religious (Catholic) hospital.  
 

As far them calling it St. Bons—I don’t find that strange at all. Most Catholic schools and churches I know that are named after saints have nicknames.

I appreciated Limo’s comment about how women can’t have it all, and I agree with her. 

[bros402]

17 hours ago, greekmom said:

Glassy staying with Lea and Shaun was sweet and hilarious.  Yeah having them talk about the house you just knew something bad was going to happen.  Interesting how Shaun and Glassy were so alike. I didn't think Shaun ever stayed with Glassman in a foster parent situation.  At least they never mentioned it.  It would have been nice to see some flashbacks if he did live with Glassman.

They've left Shaun's past between his brother dying and his first at the hospital a bit murky

7 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Heh-my 18 year old needed Ativan when he got his wisdom teeth out just so they could put in the IV!

St. Bonaventure’s Church near my house is nicknamed St. Bonnie’s.

They had to give me percocet before I could get a bone marrow biopsy - and Xanax before they knocked me out for my wisdom tooth extraction.

 

2 hours ago, Lukeysboat said:

I’m not advocating for Jordan’s bedside discussion here, but in response to your comment, presumably she is at a religious (Catholic) hospital.  

I've encountered hospitals that have religious names that aren't associated with a religion. The only one that comes to mind right now is St. Barnabas Medical Center in Livingston, NJ (wooo, spent 10 days there in 2007 and racked up a 100k bill before insurance discount!) - it apparently changed its name recently, though (a $100 million donation can get a hospital named after you, apparently!). It was named after the saint because of the society that founded it, but the hospital hasn't been religious in a loooooooooooooong time - they tried to acquire a catholic health system, but the FTC blocked it because they already run a huge chunk of the hospitals in north and central NJ.

[circumvent]

The show has improved in the way they deal with Shaun so that's a positive. I also liked the interaction between Shaun, Lea and Glassman. I don't think it would survive a long time though. The whole shower thing was a nice light touch and funny, even if overused on the screen. I really liked Shaun this episode, completely focused, not making a huge deal of anything, matter of fact about the things that are not his business.

On the other hand, Jordan was annoying and inappropriate. Also ridiculous when the girl is having a crisis (high blood pressure?) and her comment - not the time or place - was about a young girl having sex. Also, after Shaun said that she shouldn't have sex for 6 months - a medical guidance - Jordan adding that she should wait longer - an opinion.

I agree that 13 is way too young to have sex but I also know that a lot of kids this age do have sex, with intercourse or not.  In the end, the whole thing is a very personal decision and at least the kids had, supposedly, some adult guidance. Jordan was acting like a prude, not like a doctor. I also don't think this has anything to do with where people work. There are hospitals that are religious and enforce the religious views. Those are proselytizers, they are not in the business of helping people because they want to help people. They are in the hospital business to make money, and they use that position to try and convert people, even if this leads to denying help. There are hospitals that are religious in nature - AdventHealth bought a lot of hospitals years ago, keeps growing, has several practices but do not hire doctors for their religion, at least the doctors don't talk about religion at all - as it should be. They hav all the Jesus stuff on the walls of their facilities but when it comes to their business model, it is all about how much money they can milk out of you. 

 

[PurpleTentacle]

Head fire fighter is obviously psychic or a secret pyro. She had already sussed out the source of the fire when the whole house was still in massive flames.

 

[tennisgurl]

I can respect Jordan's faith and her decision to abstain from sex until marriage, but she was way out of line with her teenage patient and her mom. Thirteen is really young to be having sex, but I can see why her mom wants her to be honest with her and to be able to help her daughter be safe if she's going to have sex anyway. None of this is illegal, its not affecting her medical care beyond realizing that her having sex had something to do with her issue, so none of this is Jordan's business. Shaun was actually really good with her, his bluntness and lack of judgement was a million times more helpful than Jordan's lectures and threatening to call social services. I don't know how adding them to the mix could have helped anything, especially while the daughter was in the middle of a major medical procedure. When Jordan was trying to be all "This is why we don't have sex!" I was like "girl, time and place!" 

I knew that something would happen to Glassman's house after he waxed on about how important it was to him. I guess its time for more Glassman housemate hijinks. Glassman staying with Shaun and Lea was more fun than I expected, it really hit Lea how much Shaun has picked up from Glassman and we got some wacky hijinks to boot. 

Andrews has really become the seasons stealth MVP, the advice he gave Morgan was just what she needed to hear. 

[Starchild]

On 2/7/2023 at 7:34 PM, Driad said:

What did the episode title "365 degrees" refer to?  Sometimes they use the phrase in the script but I don't recall hearing it.

"365 degrees" is contained in the lyrics for the Talking Heads song "Burning Down the House"

[racked]

19 hours ago, bros402 said:

I've encountered hospitals that have religious names that aren't associated with a religion. The only one that comes to mind right now is St. Barnabas Medical Center in Livingston, NJ (wooo, spent 10 days there in 2007 and racked up a 100k bill before insurance discount!) - it apparently changed its name recently, though (a $100 million donation can get a hospital named after you, apparently!). It was named after the saint because of the society that founded it, but the hospital hasn't been religious in a loooooooooooooong time - they tried to acquire a catholic health system, but the FTC blocked it because they already run a huge chunk of the hospitals in north and central NJ.

They’ve never mentioned the hospital being a Catholic or religious hospital have they?  Many hospitals were once owned by or affiliated with a religious group (half the hospitals in NYC really) but aren’t any longer. I assumed St Bonaventure fell into the latter case or it would have been mentioned already. 

[CarpeFelis]

On 2/6/2023 at 8:27 PM, Annber03 said:

Interesting case with the pregnant 13 year old. I agree that the idea of a 13 year old having sex in and of itself is...ehhh, simply because that's just a LOT of responsibility for someone that young to deal with, even under the best of circumstances. 

But at the same time, I also agree with the mom in deciding to make sure her daughter was as educated as possible - even if she tried to stop her daughter from having sex, that's often easier said than done, and it's already happened, so might as well try and make sure they're as prepared as possible, so that they're not fumbling about and adding to the list of potentially messy situations they could find themselves in. If Jordan wants to live her life by her own religious convictions, fine, more power to her. But that should not have been a topic of discussion with this particular patient. That has nothing to do with the issues surrounding this patient's situation. I liked how Shaun was just very matter-of-fact and focused on helping the girl, and letting the legal/moral/emotional sides figure themselves out elsewhere. 

Agree 100% with everything you said here. Jordan generally has great bedside manner, but wow, does she ever get over-involved in trying to push an agenda with patients whenever a case brings up her own personal issues. She needs to learn to separate her own stuff from the patients’, realize that not everyone shares her religious values nor do they have to, and focus on the medical issues. Or quit medicine and become a social worker or a minister.

I just knew when Glassman got that last phone call that it would turn out his house was on fire. I wonder if this means he’ll be staying with Shaun and Lea a lot longer. Hopefully his homeowners’ insurance would pay for a place to stay for a while (though he can probably well afford to stay in a 4- or 5-star hotel if he wants to). If I were in his situation I’d take this as an opportunity to have a new house designed exactly how I want it and rebuild.

On 2/6/2023 at 8:27 PM, Annber03 said:

 liked Lim's response to Morgan regarding the idea that men manage to have it all. "They don't. They're just less conflicted about the decisions they do make." I can understand Morgan's concerns, but it would be nice to see her be able to balance both things if she could. It would be a lot of work, for sure, but I think she'd be up to the challenge. 

I’d say not only are they less conflicted, but they generally feel entitled to whatever job opportunity they want to take (thanks, patriarchy *raspberry*). They also usually have a wife, a nanny, or both.

[CarpeFelis]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:34 PM, Driad said:

What did the episode title "365 degrees" refer to?  Sometimes they use the phrase in the script but I don't recall hearing it.

Burning Down the House!

[bros402]

20 hours ago, circumvent said:

The show has improved in the way they deal with Shaun so that's a positive. I also liked the interaction between Shaun, Lea and Glassman. I don't think it would survive a long time though. The whole shower thing was a nice light touch and funny, even if overused on the screen. I really liked Shaun this episode, completely focused, not making a huge deal of anything, matter of fact about the things that are not his business.

Yeah, I am surprised at how the show has been handling Shaun these last few episodes.... did the writers room read our posts here?

(writers, if you did, put something in the background to tell us, like... uhhhh... the Primetimer Guide To Streaming TV)

4 hours ago, racked said:

They’ve never mentioned the hospital being a Catholic or religious hospital have they?  Many hospitals were once owned by or affiliated with a religious group (half the hospitals in NYC really) but aren’t any longer. I assumed St Bonaventure fell into the latter case or it would have been mentioned already. 

Exactly my thought - the hospital used to be affiliated with some religious group and now it isn't, which is why it is named after a saint.

[circumvent]

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

None of this is illegal, its not affecting her medical care beyond realizing that her having sex had something to do with her issue, so none of this is Jordan's business.

 

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

ordan's lectures and threatening to call social services. I don't know how adding them to the mix could have helped anything, especially while the daughter was in the middle of a major medical procedure

You summarized the issue perfectly. This rush to call social services for every small issue is like an addiction. It shows a lack of compassion and, at some level, some sense of superiority. I read a book many, many years ago - and I  beat myself up for not remembering the name - where the author was a foster kid and the trauma the one event of being separated from his mother caused on him. And in the case of the author, the mother was a drug addict, somewhat abusive. the concept of social services are great but in reality ot is just "kicking the can around" - where the can is the child

[Bobcatkitten]

Jordan was infuriating. The idea of calling child protective services when that young girl was clearly loved, supported and cared for was INSANE and I wish the mother had been the one to back her down. CPS has real abuse and neglect to deal with. 

[possibilities]

I hate that they are making Jordan so obnoxious with patients. Clearly the show doesn't want to represent a positive view of her abstinence. They had Lea apologize for judging her, but the show does still show her in a negative light on this issue.

[Starchild]

I don't judge her for her moral choices, just for foisting them on others. I judge her for judging lol

[ForReal]

 

On 2/6/2023 at 8:27 PM, Annber03 said:

I liked Lim's response to Morgan regarding the idea that men manage to have it all. "They don't. They're just less conflicted about the decisions they do make." I can understand Morgan's concerns, but it would be nice to see her be able to balance both things if she could. It would be a lot of work, for sure, but I think she'd be up to the challenge. 

On 2/8/2023 at 7:16 PM, CarpeFelis said:

I’d say not only are they less conflicted, but they generally feel entitled to whatever job opportunity they want to take (thanks, patriarchy *raspberry*). They also usually have a wife, a nanny, or both.

On 2/6/2023 at 10:00 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Reznick gets a great job opportunity but almost declines if after she has conversations with Park (in his one scene tonight) and Lim about being a mother and having a big job like that, but Andrews is able to talk her back into the idea that she can do both.  I'm telling y'all, Andrews is kind of becoming the MVP this season.  He's on top of things!

On 2/8/2023 at 1:51 PM, tennisgurl said:

Andrews has really become the seasons stealth MVP, the advice he gave Morgan was just what she needed to hear. 

There was one other perspective Morgan got -- Park's. He said his best memories were his kid's activities and events, and his biggest regrets were missing so many of them. Yes, Andrews told Morgan what she needed to hear to get the job, which was partly in his best interests. He *wanted* her to take the job. I think we will see her either forgo having a child or have a difficult time with it, and Parks will come to the rescue.

 

[izabella]

Why does she suddenly want a baby?  Has she explained what that’s about?  Because she won’t ever be home for that baby if she takes a new management role that will have her working all the time.  

[circumvent]

6 hours ago, izabella said:

Why does she suddenly want a baby?  Has she explained what that’s about?  Because she won’t ever be home for that baby if she takes a new management role that will have her working all the time.  

Because in the TV universe EVERY woman MUST have a desire to be a mother. Not just be a mother, but experience pregnancy. That's what makes women "complete" in that universe 🙄

Edited February 11, 2023 by circumvent

[Calvada]

I can see in the future the spot where Glassman's house is being sold to Lea and Shaun who will build their family home there; Glassman will take their apartment or buy a condo.  Just speculation!

How considerate of the firefighters not to park one of their trucks immediately in front of the house so that Glassman, Shaun & Lea could drive right there.  

I can believe it for this show and the way these characters are written, but does anyone in real life immediately tell a friend what to do when they talk to you about having to make a decision about a new opportunity in their life?  Whether it's a job, a relationship, buying a new car?  If someone asked me about a situation such as Morgan being offered the new job, I think I'd ask about the pros and cons, ask what they are thinking, provide support for their decision, but not tell them what it should be.  Eh, maybe that's me, but unless it's something like "No, you shouldn't move in with Bill because he's been abusive to you," I try not to tell people what to do, try not to assume what's best for them.  

The one good thing Jordan did (other than sit next to Perez in the church) was calm the child when she was freaking out about the needle biopsy.  Shaun should realize that no patient, regardless of age, wants the doctor to hold up that enormous needle and say this is what we're going to insert in you.  And Jordan should realize that if she cannot keep her personal beliefs out of a patient's care, she should recuse herself.

 

 

[possibilities]

I've gotten a lot of unsolicited advice, so I think a lot of people do give their opinions about things (whether asked or not!), but I like your way of trying to elicit the person's own pros and cons-- that's better in most situations.

I do think that the people in this scenario were offering what Morgan was looking for, though-- their perspectives based on their experiences.

Park talked about his own experience of missing out on aspects of parenting that he valued. He didn't actually tell her what to do.

Andrews did the same-- his experience of having the kind of parent Morgan would probably wind up being if she took the job.

And Lim answered the question about why she herself didn't become a parent.

Morgan didn't really ask what she should do, she asked how they felt about their own choices.

The thing is, though, that we have no idea why Morgan wants to be a parent, since nobody asked her. It's assumed that duh-- all girls want babies!! But Morgan has never shown any interest in anybody's needs other than her own, she's been all about her career and her wants. I think her sudden desire to be a parent is because she is depressed about losing that job offer when she put her relationship with Park ahead of her career, and feels she missed her chance at her real dream, so she's just giving up and trying something totally different. "I can't have the career I want? The one person I ever made a sacrifice for rejected me? Fine! I'll have a baby! Nobody can say no to me on that one!"

Edited February 12, 2023 by possibilities
weirdly duplicated paragraphs needed to be removed

[Calvada]

I'm sure my opinion on Park is the result of my dislike of what his character has become, especially the way he ended the relationship with Morgan.  I thought it was shitty.  But his interactions with Morgan during and after the relationship always bugged me.  He didn't engage in discussions, he made pronouncements, and that's what I felt he was doing here.  Also, perhaps I don't fully understand what this job will entail, but how is it any different from her current job and its demands on her?  It's a little different than Park's situation, when he decided to go to med school after he had a child.  And Morgan's not making a lifetime commitment; if she takes the job and has a child, then discovers those two things don't mesh, she can always get a different job.   

[Gloriosa]

I just read that the actress playing the double-lung transplant patient is an actual double-lung transplant patient.  I tried to link the article, but the link directed somewhere else.

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, Gloriosa said:

I just read that the actress playing the double-lung transplant patient is an actual double-lung transplant patient.  I tried to link the article, but the link directed somewhere else.

That's cool. Is she post-transplant and doing okay?

[Gloriosa]

Apparently so.  I found another article, so let's see if that link works.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/the-good-doctor-cystic-fibrosis-39-differences-1.6746464