S01.E09: The Garveys At Their Best

[Shermie]

Kevin is an interesting case since he seems to encompass all the reactions to the departure in his rapidly disintegrating psyche. He was prime cult material

 

Interesting point, that Kevin is prime cult material, yet he is the one who doesn't join.

 

Is there significance to the fact that everyone at Kevin Sr.'s "surprise" party is a Leftover?

 

Well, anyone who didn't Depart on 10/14 is a Leftover, so odds are pretty good that most there would be Leftovers.

 

Laurie's baby disappears at the exact moment she's looking at an ultrasound for the first time.

 

Actually, no. She looked at the ultrasound image with the doctor and the doctor left the room when a woman screamed. Then Laurie looked again and the fetus disappeared.

[ganesh]

We assume the fetus disappeared and it's highly likely. But they didn't show it. 

 

It's like the show is hedging its bets a lot. Deliberately avoiding things is just making it more obtuse. 

 

Everyone who has ever lost someone to an accident goes through the "if only" stage of grieving.

 

This is a very normal reaction, but I'm not really seeing it on the show. It's the immediate aftermath of the event that's most important because that's what leads to how people are behaving +3 years out. But that entire period is dark. So TPTBs can just do whatever they want and don't have to do the heavy lifting of character development because it happened over that time period. 

 

I loved Lost even with the lame ending but that show had mystery and I liked most of the characters.

 

As much as people pull the "it's the journey" crap with Lost, it was actually about something. That changed as the show went on, and they tried to do too much. But still. They tried to get off the island, then go back. Dharma was pretty well fleshed out over 4 years or so. They even painted a halfway decent picture of the island history itself.

 

They never really explained why the island was what it was, and it wasn't necessary. Similarly, it's not necessary to explain the vanishing here. But we started Lost right at the plane crash. Here, no. So it's hard to figure out why people are doing whatever the hell they're doing. If you start a series with a time jump and you're not spending that first season flashing back, then I think it's an unfair cheat.

 

If it's just you and someone who's not there anymore, you don't even have the luxury of looking at a stranger's reaction for confirmation that you're not crazy.

 

Tom definitely was like, "WTF!" right at the end. But the show ended and I doubt we're going to revisit that, so we won't know anyone's reaction at the school. Which is probably the most important since everyone else was isolated: Laurie, Kevin, Nora. 

 

"Where did everyone go? What did you see? Did you hear anything? Is anyone else gone anywhere? Jill, I'm calling dad." All reasonable responses and reactions that we're probably not going to see but are still essential to how people behave in the present.

 

Nothing about Aimee either. Was she at the school? 

 

Another thing that's just sloppy. Kevin was chasing the deer all over the place on 1014. So, in E1 when he's face to face with the other deer there's no connection. "Another deer? WTF is it with you deer and all the weird shit that's gone down." 

[Davey]

This episode could have been great but instead it was all build up and no payoff. The moment of the disappearance was just lame. I wanted to see that baby vanish from the screen. I wanted to see something cool with Kevin maybe POV style, laying back grabbing her boobs and poof, she's gone. I wanted to see cool shit happen. This episode should have been a directors wet dream but every character's moment was just a 2 second O-face and cut to the next one. Couldn't they at least linger with the characters for a few moments after it happened? If the moments were somehow shocking and surprising in any way then that could have been a  powerful way to end the show but they were just so uninspired. If your going to make us wait that long (both in the season and in the episode) for those moments then don't telegraph them so badly and have some cool shit up your sleeve!

[Blakeston]

Oh see, I thought that having a baby vanish from within Laurie actually was the thing that answered the "what happened?" question in terms of rules and it tends to be an answer scifi fans dislike, but there really are only two possibilities for something like this:  God or Aliens (or Wizards, or possibly Alien Wizards, but you get the drift) and yeah, the baby Departing from within would lean more towards God or gods, I think.  Or possibly Obstetric Obsessed Aliens?  Seriously though, I thought they swung firmly into "Okay, so now we know it was supernatural" territory with the fetus disappearing. 

 

Has anyone on the show mentioned aliens as a possible explanation?

 

I'm hardly a "the truth is out there" type, but if something like this happened - with no apparent similarity between the people who disappeared - my mind would jump pretty quickly to aliens interfering with us for some reason. That would make a hell of a lot more sense than anything else.

 

(For the record, I'm not saying I want the show to reveal that aliens did it. But I'd think a show dedicated to exploring how people deal with the disappearances would at least deal with this reaction.)

 

Actually, no. She looked at the ultrasound image with the doctor and the doctor left the room when a woman screamed. Then Laurie looked again and the fetus disappeared.

 

I was talking about it being her first ultrasound (ie, her first chance to look at her fetus). I didn't think it was necessary to clarify that it wasn't her first glance at the fetus.

[hacman00]

This episode could have been great but instead it was all build up and no payoff. The moment of the disappearance was just lame. I wanted to see that baby vanish from the screen. I wanted to see something cool with Kevin maybe POV style, laying back grabbing her boobs and poof, she's gone. I wanted to see cool shit happen. This episode should have been a directors wet dream but every character's moment was just a 2 second O-face and cut to the next one. Couldn't they at least linger with the characters for a few moments after it happened? If the moments were somehow shocking and surprising in any way then that could have been a  powerful way to end the show but they were just so uninspired. If your going to make us wait that long (both in the season and in the episode) for those moments then don't telegraph them so badly and have some cool shit up your sleeve!

 

 

Yeah, I for one am glad the mechanical shark they planned to use in Jaws didn't work.  I think if they showed the actual vanishings it could only have been disappointing.

[shapeshifter]

Still, even if the wishing is limited by geography, Congress would still be gone.

Hee. True.

We assume the fetus disappeared and it's highly likely. But they didn't show it. 

Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if it turns out she lost it or aborted it or even gave it up for adoption, but I think the expression on her face indicated it did disappear.

[ganesh]

I'm splitting hairs because TPTBs have been hedging so much all season. Because if they wanted Laurie to get an abortion in a year from 1014; they can pull the "well, we never showed it explicitly." Technically, Tom could have flipped out and left, Jill became Bitchface, Kevin is nuts, so maybe she ran into Patti again and got talked into an abortion and joining the GR. 

 

It's not like she was reacting to the fact that there was a baby inside her and there's not. She could have been looking for a penis to see if it was a boy. I bet good money her understated reaction was directed and not by choice. Again, the show not having people behave like they normally would. 

[Sofie Fatale]

I'm not assuming that, but I think we're supposed to get the idea that she's "on the road" to the GR. Don't you think by now we kind of should have a better picture of this? I didn't see much in this episode that offered insight to that end. Presumably, a full flashback episode would give something up for a featured character. 

 

We were discussing in the other episode threads why people's clothes went with them, and someone mentioned about talking on a phone, etc. So I asked about the phone here to see if TPTBs slipped up. The shopping cart didn't vanish in E1 either, so the phone shouldn't, and didn't. Again, I don't care exactly what happened, just that it's consistent and the reactions are believable. 

 

There's been nothing further about the dogs either.

I don't mind that not everything has a clear answer. It kind of puts me in what I imagine the headspace of people would be. This unexplained crazy, creepy phenomena happened and NO ONE KNOWS WHY. Perhaps this is how we're meant to view the show. Perhaps asking why a juice cup or a cell vanished, but not an article of clothing or shopping cart is pointless. In their world they are no closer to answering those questions themselves. When I watch I feel like I'm on this ride with them, maybe because I just let it go and wait for episodes such as this one where we're getting answers and insight.

I don't want all the answers spoon fed to me right away. I do want the mystery...give me something to look forward to. Just a few episodes ago we were complaining about the lack of back story for the main characters. What happened on that day? Now we've gotten it. There's more to come, and maybe it won't until season two.

[ganesh]

I don't mind that not everything is clear. But it's been 9 episodes and we've got zero on how a main character came to lead the major 1014 cult. 

 

Perhaps this is how we're meant to view the show. [etc]

 

If the show was set 6 months to a year after, then yes. But 3 years, I'm just not buying it. 

 

I really question what substantive answers we got from this episode. Just following the season discussion here, not much of the topics have been addressed. 

 

There's more to come, and maybe it won't until season two.

 

Then what were these 9 episodes for? Shouldn't they have done most of the heavy lifting on these topics; GR, Wayne, etc., so when S2 rolls around they can broaden the scope and breadth of the show. I don't think it's unreasonable to have a little bit more after 9 hours of show than what we have now. 

 

It's not a question of spoon feeding. No one likes that. Why Tom left is an important question that I think could have been addressed through the numerous scenes that he's been in so far, for example. The state of Matt's congregation isn't unreasonable to show. It takes a quick 15 seconds of him talking to a lot of people after a mass. There's a lot of easy quick things to show that can address a lot. It's not being done and I think it's deliberate, but I don't know to what end. Because not much has really happened, and I don't have a clear picture of what this world is like. After 2 hours, that's nbd. But it's 9 now. I think that's fairly patient to expect some more than this. 

[seamusk]

I don't mind that not everything is clear. But it's been 9 episodes and we've got zero on how a main character came to lead the major 1014 cult. 

That's not correct.  We've gotten some important information about why Laurie joined the cult.  We don't have ALL of the information, nor should we at this point.  There are many ways to tell a story, and given the format it wouldn't make sense to disclose it all just yet. 

 

Not every story telling style is for everyone.  That doesn't mean that's it is bad story telling. For what it's worth, 3 years seems like a correct amount of time for this story.  This isn't a story about how people reacted on the day of 1014.  It isn't a story about how they felt 6 months afterwards.  It's a story about how people behaved 3 years later.  And to me, that makes sense and is interesting.  People are beyond the initial shock and the initial grieving period.  Some are still grieving.  Some have moved on.  Some are going a bit crazy.  After a couple of years of trying to find meaning and purpose after a cataclysmic event, some have joined cults - cults which have reached a stage of maturity rather than tiny cults that exist only in corners of the world.  I think the story of now is interesting.  And it's fun to find out how our characters got there, but not essential.

[Cardie]

If something happened that most rational people would previously have deemed impossible, the entire psychic foundation on which one has built one's life collapses. Laurie makes a living helping people who think such things are possible work out that these are just delusions provoked by psychological demons. Finding out they are right and she is wrong, at least in this one instance, especially by having her fetus go poof, tells me all I need about why she's in the GR. I don't need the timeline. I think we've seen how the recruitment process works with Liv Tyler's arc.

I don't mean to belabor my "wished away" theory and agree that this is a likely story folks with survivor guilt might have told themselves. Going just on the subsection of departures referenced in this episode, however, requirements involve the wisher having the thought at the moment the departure event was happening, being in close proximity to the departed (as in at least the same room or vehicle), and that the departed one had the sort of relationship with the wisher that should have precluded any desire to be rid of them. With all these restrictions, I can see the departure rate being as low as 2%. We may well find Congress infuriating or our bosses petty tyrants but that's not the same as subconsciously wishing to be free of children or lovers. When we hear of someone who was alone in the park vanishing, I'll revise the theory. Right now it's holding.

[Dr.Scully]

I actually feel like I understand Laurie, Patti, the GR and their motivations better after this episode. I think the character development was great and it was fascinating to see these people as they were before the event. This episode would have had nowhere near the impact if it came near the beginning of the season. I completely disagree with that idea. After being on the fence all season, I very much enjoyed this episode and will watch the show next year.

If you experienced this event, everything you thought you knew about the world would be shattered. I can totally understand the idea that, if this happened, everything we used to believe is/was bullshit. That nothing matters and everything is a shitty illusion so there's no point in doing anything except smoke a bunch of cigarettes and wait to die. I can actually understand this mentality when I think about it. Since they don't have an explanation for the event, an event which called literally everything everyone knows into question, the GR has decided no one can move on with their lives and forget this event. I may not agree, but I do understand better.

And the idea that the GR was recruiting before the event is fascinating to me. I want to know more about that.

[stillshimpy]

Going just on the subsection of departures referenced in this episode, however, requirements involve the wisher having the thought at the moment the departure event was happening, being in close proximity to the departed (as in at least the same room or vehicle), and that the departed one had the sort of relationship with the wisher that should have precluded any desire to be rid of them.

 

Well, in the case of Nora, we know that's true.  In the case of Laurie, it might be true (or she was there for amnio testing, which she'd need at her age)  and it's a reasonable enough thing to assume because if nothing else, that baby was not planned and her marriage was not in good shape.  

 

However, the kid at the science fair disappearing from the circle actually is an important story element that would seem to refute that and we've no reason to think he or she was wished away.  We can guess that, but that's bending the story in order to make all departure stories match up to the only one we are fairly certain contained that element: Nora's family.  The older boy with Down's Syndrome is again -- without in anyway trying to imply that people with downs syndrome aren't loved and cherished by their families -- someone it's sort of an easy bet his older parents may have worried about "what will happen to him when we're gone?"  Or, like Nora and almost every parent out there, have had a moment of "just a day to myself, just one" (or whatever).  

 

But we've also seen the partner of a man who was crying and talking about his departure of his spouse, and have no reason to believe they were anything other than happy.  So there's noting universal here.  Colicky Sam?  Probably a safe bet.  Missing husband of the man we saw Nora interviewing?  No way to know.  

 

However, the people we saw who almost certainly did have that moment of "I wish you weren't here" or worse (Sam's mom, Nora and Laurie on a pretty safe bet) do have something in common: They all seem to have cracked up to an extent in the aftermath.  

 

Nora had prostitutes shooting her for punishment and had arrested time in her home, waiting for her family to come back and eat their lucky charms.  Apparently she dressed down some woman at conference for suggesting departures were related to sugary cereals (Lucky Charms + Nora's guilt led to a blow up).  Laurie...welll, there she is and no need to go into that further.  Sam's mom had apparently joined Kevin Jr. at the bottom of a liquor bottle as a way of life.  

 

We actually have seen some evidence (eighth-grade science kid was unlikely being wished dead in his or her circle, even for the sin of sweaty palms -- Crying Spouse ...I'd submit to you the Down's Syndrome boy is a possibility too...all we saw of his home life was his parents sitting with him) that some people were not as likely to be being wished away at that moment.  Then there's people like the Pope, or the kid in the fridge (who might have been wishing himself dead, I grant you) or Gary Busey.  

 

We only know for sure that Nora was in the middle of wishing her entire family would shut up, or cease to exist or just STOP and Sam's mom might be a good bet too.

 

Cardie, I get that you like the theory and I think it fits Nora's story, but I do think that trying to assign the Departures to wish fulfillment is ...well hell, who knows, maybe it is the reason?  But honestly the Tel Aviv laser beams that crazy lady at the conference was yodeling about are just as likely as the "and something made it so..."  (although it does remind me of the guy in TNG who wished the race that killed his wife dead "I killed them all" )plus, there has to be a hermit on a hill that went poof.  Or an old lady that didn't have a relative in the world left.  

Millions gone would suggest that there is no common theme, Nora's questionnaire and continuing surveys suggest that there is no common theme.  That it really was just that arbitrary and that's harder to cope with than any actual explanation I can conjure. 

Edited August 26, 2014 by stillshimpy

[izabella]

Because not much has really happened, and I don't have a clear picture of what this world is like. After 2 hours, that's nbd. But it's 9 now. I think that's fairly patient to expect some more than this.

 

This particular story teller hates linear thought and story-telling.  He will provide flashbacks as snapshots to fill in random blanks for years, long after you've tired of the past and are more interested in where the story is going in the present.  After he's filled in random blanks (that may or may not complete any kind of picture of anything) from the past, he will give you flash forwards into the future, also snapshots of much nothingness.  And then the series will end on some lame tangent that had very little to do with what you'd been watching for years. 

 

I could be wrong, but that's my guess here.  I'd be happy to be surprised.

[shapeshifter]

...And the idea that the GR was recruiting before the event is fascinating to me. I want to know more about that.

So we agree that the car of folks who asked smoking hot (couldn't resist adjective juxtaposition) white clad cop if he was "ready" indicates that there already was a clandestine group of white clad smokers anticipating the event? Or were they just a garden variety apocalypse group who happened to form around the time of the event?

Cardie, I get that you like the theory and I think it fits Nora's story, but I do think that trying to assign the Departures to wish fulfillment is ...well hell, who knows, maybe it is the reason? But honestly the Tel Aviv laser beams that crazy lady at the conference was yodeling about are just as likely as the "and something made it so..." (although it does remind me of the guy in TNG who wished the race that killed his wife dead "I killed them all" )plus, there has to be a hermit on a hill that went poof. Or an old lady that didn't have a relative in the world left.

Millions gone would suggest that there is no common theme, Nora's questionnaire and continuing surveys suggest that there is no common theme. That it really was just that arbitrary and that's harder to cope with than any actual explanation I can conjure

FWIW, I like the theory too, and I'm trying to figure out a pseudo science reason that it would work. I also like the idea the disappeared went to another dimension, so perhaps in that dimension there's a Nora who wants to do nothing more than clean up spilled juice. Edited August 26, 2014 by shapeshifter

[revbfc]

Didn't TPTB already deny that they'd give an explanation for the departures? If that's the case, are we supposed to just watch all these characters flounder in pain for (at least) another season?

Don't get me wrong, this episode was really good. I loved seeing different sides to the characters, and it was nice that some of our conclusions were correct. What I want to know is what I should care about on this show? Should I root for the characters to find a way to move on without magic hugs? For these folks to find purpose beyond wearing all white and being 24/7 dicks? For some to get a handle on the voices in their heads? Listen, if I want to deal with looming, unanswered questions that'll never have satisfactory answers, I can do that with my own existence. On a show like this, I want answers.

[scrb]

One thing about this episode is that it follow a climatic episode in current time (3 years after 1014).  Patti killed herself and Kevin may be implicated in her murder -- even though he didn't do it, he clearly abducted her to some isolated place during one of his blackouts.

 

And Jill just joined the GR.

 

So they halt that momentum abruptly and go to a flashback episode.

 

This was exactly the kind of tactic that Lost always pulled.

 

It aggravated and alienated a lot of people.

Edited August 27, 2014 by scrb

[stillshimpy]

FWIW, I like the theory too, and I'm trying to figure out a pseudo science reason that it would work. I also like the idea the disappeared went to another dimension, so perhaps in that dimension there's a Nora who wants to do nothing more than clean up spilled juice.

 

Well, I think that we are unlikely to ever get an actual answer, so rock on with liking the theories that you like, shapeshifter, Cardie and anyone else.  

 

I like that there isn't any reason as far as we know.  I like that it is just that capricious and baffling, because I guess I find appeal in having this world changing event be entirely inexplicable.  I've long thought that if there is a God, and it's not like I know one way or another, that trying to understand its motives and actions would be entirely beyond our ken.  I guess that's why the "because someone wished it" strikes me as being rather unworthy of answering, you know?  Of all the things people pray for, hope for, concentrate upon, that one small-minded, unkind impulse is what is heard?  

 

Yikes.  I mean, it's a dark show, but that's such hard for me to ascribe to anything that powerful.  I mean, it suggests that the people being wished away were simply disposable window-dressings in another person's reality when, in truth, they would be individuals also, as important, as valuable as the person having that momentary weakness of wishing another person out of existence.  

 

Like a fucked up version of a genie.  "Your wish is...now reality."  Yikes  

[WearyTraveler]

So we agree that the car of folks who asked smoking hot (couldn't resist adjective juxtaposition) white clad cop if he was "ready" indicates that there already was a clandestine group of white clad smokers anticipating the event? Or were they just a garden variety apocalypse group who happened to form around the time of the event?

 

Or they could just be a garden variety cult that already existed and simply took advantage of the event to re-invent themselves.  Sometimes the simpler explanation.... Occam's razor and all that.

 

I like that there isn't any reason as far as we know.  I like that it is just that capricious and baffling, because I guess I find appeal in having this world changing event be entirely inexplicable. 

 

I don't much care one way or another.  If they don't explain it, I'll be fine with that.

 

As for possible explanations, there are only three I can think of:

 

Supernatural: A God, or gods.

 

Science Fiction: Aliens

 

Pseudo Science: Wonky physics (e.g. There was a rupture in the time-space continuum and these people got sucked in because they were standing on magnetically charged coordinates or some such interpretation / bending  of real life physics theories)

 

I suppose an explanation could help some characters move on from guilt (Nora, Laurie, Kevin), but it would be more interesting to me if they found a way to do that without it.

------------------------------------------------------------------

The article I read, which stated the book gave no answer to the sudden departure, also mentioned that Lindelof and Perrotta (the book's author and also Executive Producer of the show) planned for the TV show to have an explanation. I tried googling the article again, but had no luck.  I did find one that talks about it tangentially, though: http://www.vulture.com/2012/06/lindelof-talks-to-vulture-about-new-hbo-project.html

 

One of the main mysteries of The Leftovers is just where all the "disappeared" folks went. Lindelof doesn't want to spoil how the book tackles (or doesn't tackle) this question, but he did say the puzzle will be a key part of the show. During their talks, Lindelof and Perrotta agreed the answer to the question "did matter and [viewers] needed to know."

Edited August 27, 2014 by WearyTraveler

[ganesh]

 

This particular story teller hates linear thought and story-telling.  He will provide flashbacks as snapshots to fill in random blanks for years, long after you've tired of the past and are more interested in where the story is going in the present.  After he's filled in random blanks (that may or may not complete any kind of picture of anything) from the past, he will give you flash forwards into the future, also snapshots of much nothingness.  And then the series will end on some lame tangent that had very little to do with what you'd been watching for years.

I don't mind nonlinear story telling, but this seems like what's happening. There's not much framework to the show. I think random blanks is quite apt. If you really scrutinize this episode, there's just not a lot here. I'm just not seeing an overall narrative. 

Anyone want to bet that Laurie's baby didn't actually disappear?

[Cardie]

Yikes. I mean, it's a dark show, but that's such hard for me to ascribe to anything that powerful. I mean, it suggests that the people being wished away were simply disposable window-dressings in another person's reality when, in truth, they would be individuals also, as important, as valuable as the person having that momentary weakness of wishing another person out of existence.

I wouldn't see this as any view of a higher power or really as anything literal at all. Rather, the show is a thought experiment/allegory about how we go on when people who were parts of our lives suddenly aren't there any more. And the narrative happens to focus on the characters who had ambivalent feelings about the presence of those people in their lives. It builds out from them to the whole world, asking what psychological effect it would have if roughly one or two percent of humans who had sometimes wished in passing to be rid of a friend, family member or intimate partner had that happen. Within the allegory, we can decide that the departed are just waiting in the sideways universe and haven't been disposed of at all, if the thought experiment seems to make their fate a dark one.

I mean, Lost made perfect sense as an allegory of sinners working their way to salvation through symbolic adventures on an island, with the ability to form a community standing in for whatever redemptive process lost souls might go through if Christian theology is broadly correct. It was when they tried to make the process literal and give explanations for everything that it fell apart--as if someone wanted to explain the physics of The Pilgrim's Progress.

[brewer]

5. And finally, did anyone else find Kevin (whom I don't dislike) the least changed of any other non-GR character? Kevin, pre 10/14: Simmering bed of secrets, lies, anger, and confusion. Kevin, post 10/14: Ditto, but with a side of crazy.

 

This is a very good observation, and I think the reason for Kevin's no change is the fact he was the only one beside Patti and the already gathering future GR members who had been already questioning his whole life and had been already realizing the lack of purpose of life. Everybody else, be happy, nervous, sad, having problems or being content, were acting within the boundaries of an avarege life, not having any second thoughts whether family, goals, relationships, living had any reason at all. My interpretation is that for Kevin 14 th October wasn't the trigger for knowing/feeling the meaninglessness of life, Kevin's world pre and post 14th October is not that different. Even the possible craziness didn't start with the Event, he was seeing suddenly disappearing deers before that and had sleeping problems. It just after the Event everybody else also went off the road, and now there isn't any support that could counterweight Kevin's own free-falling. 

[brewer]

Interesting point, that Kevin is prime cult material, yet he is the one who doesn't join.

 

At first glance he seems to be one, but there is still a big difference between him and what GR could offer: GR members created for themselves an artificial purpose, which is to show that life is mundane, everything that make us human should be denied, which paradoxically still gives them a purpose for getting up in the morning, whereas I think, deep down Kevin feels that there is nothing more to it, there can never be any answers not from outside, not from ourselves. 

[Louise]

Okay, I might totally be a crackpot, but based on the last episode there's seems to be a connection between the people that disappeared and another person close to them wishing them to temporarily be gone. Like Nora with the non-supportive husband and the whiny kids. Or Laurie with the baby. The lady with the newborn seemed extremely overwhelmed as you are when you have a newborn. Just a theory.

[stillshimpy]

I wouldn't see this as any view of a higher power or really as anything literal at all. Rather, the show is a thought experiment/allegory about how we go on when people who were parts of our lives suddenly aren't there any more. And the narrative happens to focus on the characters who had ambivalent feelings about the presence of those people in their lives. It builds out from them to the whole world, asking what psychological effect it would have if roughly one or two percent of humans who had sometimes wished in passing to be rid of a friend, family member or intimate partner had that happen.

 

Aha, well then I misunderstood you, Cardie and I apologize.  I thought you were saying that you liked "they were wished away" as the actual, literal interpretation of why people were taken, thus my "Whoa, very Old Testament God of Retribution and Punishment! Be judged for your sins!"  reaction.  

 

As the basis for the character study of people who have to live with aftermath in combination with their guilt, I agree that's clearly what the show is doing in terms of who it is choosing to follow. There are very few things in life that inspire as much guilt as the relationships we have with people we love.  That feeling of letting them down, having unworthy moments, basically being human and often not letting ourselves off the hook for it when guilt and shame are often destructive and eroding forces within a life.  A look at who we are when what sustains us is gone, whether it's Faith in a particular scripture (because no matter what, this even doesn't fit a known scripture) or people, or a belief that we understand enough about what makes life tick to be able to function in this world, believing that we have goals. 

 

However, we completely part way at the stored-in-a-sideways universe concept as being a good one that it would be fun to explore.  I said the other day that I don't think this show believes it is telling a story about a mystery to be solved, but I realized almost immediately that I'm wrong.  We've had the stuff with the National Geographic, characters muttering things like "spiders that live underwater" (one of the stories in the National Geographic) and the weirdness that is Kevin Sr.'s chats with whatever isn't there, but then again, does seem to be there (characters muttering things from that magazine suggests that whatever is talking to Kevin Sr. is talking to them also). 

 

However, in terms of telling a story, I think it would be a mistake to adhere too closely to the same sort of device that Lost used.  I didn't hate Lost.  I really disliked the third season , but I wasn't alone in that, and then after that it got better and I learned to really like Jack.  It wasn't a very coherent story in the final result, but I have a higher opinion of Lindeoff than some.  I think he's a good story teller, but he generally doesn't appeal to people who like direct narratives. He gets fuzzy-muzzy on details that actually matter to people trying to make the narrative hold together.  Lost really suffered, I think, by the size of the network episode order and the demands that it continue on because it was a commercial success.  So a story that might have been really tight if they'd had some sort of reasonable limit "50 episodes, over and out, get it done" had to employ stall tactics like crazy, "Haven't you always wondered how Jack got his tattoos? No?!?  Hey, stop throwing sharp stuff at us, we have to pad the narrative.  Tree frog while you wait?  OW! Stopping hitting us!" 

So I'm glad that he gets a chance to practice his craft without the need to unduly spin out the tale. That said, I don't think a do-over to that extent is going to help make this story a good one when viewed as a full season.  They already did the "Sideways" universe and most of the TV viewing world tuned in for it. I personally think he's got something less timey-whimey and more 'this is the fabric that holds us together and this is what it looks like when it unravels and we don't know why'..."  but having said that, the "clues" dropped about the magazine do actually suggest that they think they are telling a mystery.  In which case...well, we will see what is to be seen, but they've got a scant sixty minutes to wrap that up with, because when they shot this, the series had not been picked up to series and they needed to execute a relatively complete tale in ten episodes.

[Constantinople]

By now, I think we should know something more about the GR other than they chain smoke, wear white PJs and have a totally incoherent philosophy, to the extent they have one at all. I don't see why anyone would join and, having joined, why anyone would stay other than free cigarettes. By Episode 9, I shouldn't have to rely on jokesy reasons for characters' motivation.

Is it a coincidence that all of the GR members or novices of any significance -- Patti, Laurie, Gladys, Megan and now possibly Jill -- are all women, or does that actually mean something? Who knows, but I having doubts that the TPTB know themselves.

It's not just that the Leftovers fails compared to other shows, it fails compared to itself. Wayne's cult at least makes sense.

[stillshimpy]

It's not just that the Leftovers fails compared to other shows, it fails compared to itself.

 

You may end up being entirely right, Constantinople.  From my standpoint this show has both hit and missed.  It scores hit for me when it shows the emotional complexity surrounding loss.  Loss and grieving are things most people experience within their lives and I think the show has done a good job of hitting that note of empathy.  Showing me moments I recognize.  Usually with Nora, but sometimes with other characters too. 

 

Where it has missed for me is in trying to build to a conclusion with the GR.  At present they are too hazy and I think, unless they are about to pull a gigantic "Oh my God, really?"  out of a hat for the finale -- which they might be -- they've been too murky, too mysterious about them.  However, there's one more episode to go and it may have all built towards something.  

 

It's got a couple of logic flaws, I think.  It's clear the GR thinks they are doing something of worth.  Patti talking about what they do being hard, the plan for whatever those packages (which I suspect are dolls) and that they clearly have some serious financial backing.  Their philosophy -- which I entirely agree, the show stalled on longer than was advisable, it went past intriguing and into irritating --  about people needing to drop everything, accept that it is all meaningless (the part I REALLY don't get...organized action around meaninglessness sort of baffles me) seems to be building towards something.  

 

As does the stuff with Kevin Sr.  and his unseen Greek Chorus.  

 

I think the story has built enough around characters like Matt, Nora, Kevin and Jill to make it matter to me.  Around Wayne?  No.  Around Tom?  Again, not at present for me.  Around Laurie?  I don't understand her and they've got one episode left to make it happen in this season.  Meg? Hoo doggies, I understand her least of all, because here's a problem with the GR "we never speak, but we stalk people and eventually some people join!"  is the resonating "Now...why would that inspire anyone to join?  Why are they handing out blank pamphlets to people and that makes someone like Meg show up at their door?!?"  question.  

So for me they've had success in emotional access when it comes to the characters like Nora, Kevin, hell at long last Jill, who it sort of broke my heart here when she was such a sweet girl.  The actor deserves such credit for making Jill believably kid-like, sweet and emotionally warm and entirely engaged in her life.  That it wasn't people going *poof* that derailed that for her, but that her other choosing to abandon her because of that did the trick.  

 

Just saying, there's an emotional authenticity particularly within the context of this episode that I recognized.  Amy Brennan and Justin Theroux did good work and rendered really vivid characterizations of people suffering not from active misery, but marital malaise.  That overwhelming feeling of "Uh. Ugh.  All of this is what it allegedly takes to be happy...but what I'm feeling can't possibly be happiness..." and wanting to look outward rather than inward for the reason.  Good work.  Even the contradiction of Kevin smoking after a run, like he was giving his entire existence the finger.  "Screw you, respiratory system and healthy habits. I'm so disenchanted with the recipes for a good life."  

But where I agree the story is primarily falling down is in trying to make that character study into a cohesive tale about what happened and what the GR, or Wayne are doing....and it would be fine if it was a tale about the bizarre practice of cults in the first place, but instead it seems like the story thinks it is doing something.  I really got nervous about that with the GR apparently knowing something beforehand.  

 

That did give me a sense of "Ah crap, the weakest element of the story is the one they are going to try and bring into focus in the finale, isn't it?"  and I'm waiting to see if it faceplants or not. 

Edited August 27, 2014 by stillshimpy

[ganesh]

I mean, Lost made perfect sense as an allegory of sinners working their way to salvation through symbolic adventures on an island, with the ability to form a community standing in for whatever redemptive process lost souls might go through if Christian theology is broadly correct.

 

I actually thought the theory that they were in purgatory was fine. You don't really have to explain much more than that. Then they piled on and it all fell in.

 

By now, I think we should know something more about the GR other than they chain smoke, wear white PJs and have a totally incoherent philosophy, to the extent they have one at all. I don't see why anyone would join and, having joined, why anyone would stay other than free cigarettes. By Episode 9, I shouldn't have to rely on jokesy reasons for characters' motivation.

 

Now they're doing the opposite here. They're deliberately avoiding explaining anything so I just don't believe much of how this world works or that these people are acting in ways that may not be expected, but logical within the show universe.

 

This whole "well, answers might come," is fine, but it has been 9 episodes. I don't mean everything needs to be answered now, but it's more than fair to expect some more answers. A slow moving show is fine, if it's building to something. This isn't building. Yeah character study, but I still expect the characters to do stuff. Kevin said he was investigating the GR. There's been nothing on that end. He's a cop. He could use those resources to search for Tom, for example. This would be a character study in how he sees himself as Tom's father even though he's not the bio dad.

 

I'm betting they're going to have some nonsensical big reveal and expect the viewers to fanwank it or retcon it into the narrative because it's not going to have any basis on anything that's happened already.

[smcallah]

I wonder with the fetus disappearing were there any cases of a pregnant mother disappearing but a fetus being leftover?

[ottoDbusdriver]

I wonder with the fetus disappearing were there any cases of a pregnant mother disappearing but a fetus being leftover?

 

Now that would be freaky.

 

With that car full of women that stopped and talked to Kevin, it seemed like they knew what was going to happen that day and were getting to ready to move the next phase in their plans.  What if an apocalyptic doomsday cult caused the Sudden Departure ? 

[Sofie Fatale]

Most times I think that Kevin doesn't give a shit about the GR aside from his wife's involvement with them. Regardless of their estrangement, he wants her safe. I think investigating them might be expected of him because he's chief, but his heart ain't in it. I actually think his heart isnt into the job of being chief or a cop in general. It's what his dad did, so maybe he followed. He seems to be unable to fill those big "man of the year" shoes, and is constantly reminded of that by the mayor, fellow cops, his daughter, the bagel...

Laurie's question of "what is your place here?" Is very telling.

[Cardie]

However, we completely part way at the stored-in-a-sideways universe concept as being a good one that it would be fun to explore.

 

 

That was me joking. All I meant was that the Departed don't necessarily have to be suffering because of being wished away (or any other factor that caused them to be chosen.) I guess I'm proposing that the answer to question 121 can as easily be yes as no. Everything about the narrative so far says that the departed are not the show's concern. The government needs to be taking surveys about those who got disappeared on, not on those who went.

 

It took me a long time to like this show and I still see many flaws. But understanding why the leftovers have been acting in the various ways they have is not a problem for me. I'll bet if you followed around everyone who lost someone when Malaysia airlines 370 pulled an Oceanic 815 you'd see some seeking solace in religion, some concocting conspiracy theories, some furious, some resigned. The GR itself seems broadly to believe that after the Great Departure, it is a sin to go on with normal life and that those who do are sinners who have betrayed the departed.  All clues point to the GR on Memorial Day dressing up the trademarked Loved Ones dolls whom they've ordered in the guise of every Mapleton departed one in those people's clothes and reinstalling them where they left. Until they've got everyone living a white-clad, silent, smoking life, the GR are in their view living among heartless infidels.

[ganesh]

That's the problem with the GR though. Except for the twins who seem unaffected, not many people that we've seen are going on with normal life. Plenty of people posted "To what end?" after Patti when on her big spiel in the cabin. It's not like people forgot. 

 

Most times I think that Kevin doesn't give a shit about the GR aside from his wife's involvement with them.

 

I would think the de facto dissolution of my marriage and the eventual de jure dissolution would be sufficient motivation to figure out what the hell was going on. If not for his own sake, for Jill and Tom. Not to mention Kevin has a professional responsibility to the citizens to investigate. 

 

Whether he wants to be a cop or not, and he's chief, so it's not like he has to work cases, he asked "Did they make you do this?" to Laurie when she presented the divorce papers. So, he's clearly interested in the GR enough in how it's affected his life. He's tried to visit Laurie in E1 as well. I would think given the resources available to him, he'd try a little bit harder. He's pretty proactive when he gets pissed off, and he certainly seemed pretty pissed off at the GR. 

 

This is part of my problem with the show. This just isn't believable. These aren't really characters; TPTBs are pushing them in ways to serve some unknown plot that they don't seem to want to reveal either. 

 

So the GR is going to recreate everyone's "departure." And? It's not like they forgot. They did have a huge town memorial not that long ago, and everyone's seen the pastor screaming about it, as well as the GR meandering around smoking all the time. 

[xlibris]

I actually think his heart isnt into the job of being chief or a cop in general.

Good point. And you've put my problem with his character into words, because I don't know what he is into.

 

I use words like "miscalculation" with this show because this is clearly where they wanted to take the character, and whatever it is they did, they've sure done it ... he's just not as interesting to me as he was meant to be, and that comes from the fact that he's adrift, he's always been adrift, and I don't know when he's going to find his footing.

 

One thing I like about Nora is that even though she's lost so much, we've seen glimpses of her sense of humor, her resolve, her dignity, and not least her professional competence. Same with Matt, who I don't even like that much. Hell, same with Kevin Sr. So TPTB obviously know how to create those compelling moments ... they just haven't with KJ.

Edited August 27, 2014 by xlibris

[Milaxx]

I could NOT figure out what was going on with Tom and the hippie-father.  Was he really a bad guy?  He didn't seem like one; Kevin seemed like he was overreacting in that scene.  But in the one leading up to it in the car, Tom had a classic abused "It was my fault!" reaction.  We're supposed to fill in the gaps there, I guess, but I paused the show after that scene and worked mightily to come up with the right narrative that would account for all the variables and got nothing.

 

Who are Tom's bio parents?

Who are Jill's bio parents?

 

I guess that's a start.

I'm not sure Tom's dad was anything more than just a crappy bio dad. It seems that whatever happened between him and Laurie occurred before Kevin was born and whatever it was was serious enough for him to cut off all ties with Tom and Laurie. 

Tom's bio parents are hipster dad that Kevin punched & Laurie

Jill's bio parents are Kevin & Laurie

I don't have a problem with this, but I'm highly skeptical that this point could have been gleaned from the diner scene alone. I mean, good call on anyone who guessed it. I suspect knowing some outside information played into it. But again, what real information was put forth? We don't really know anything more about Patti. ......

And really, so what? It's not like knowing Laurie was Patti's therapist has given us any insight on the GR. Maybe if we had some quick scene with Patti talking to the women in the car it would have helped.

I think it helped explain why Laurie believed anything Patty had to say.  Patti even referenced their last session, and honestly I thought the scenes with Patty -- who just seemed delusional, broken and sad (and that's probably how Laurie viewed her) -- would seem omniscient in retrospect from Laurie's standpoint.  Talking about something about to happen, telling Laurie there was something wrong inside her.   Explaining Neil and why Patti dropped off a bag of crap on the front doorstep with his name on it.

 

 

I was one of those people who guessed that Laurie was Patti's therapist from that diner scene. No I haven't read the book. I do work in social services so maybe hearing that terminology helped me draw that conclusion. I just thought it was fairly obvious . 

The one thing I did find interesting, and perhaps I'm reaching here, is that bit in the conversation where they talk about Patti having been kicked out of her house by Neil. Patti says, "He paid for it." or something to that effect to justify him kicking her out. It looked like the house the GR are staying in is the house the Garvey's used to live in pre 10/14. It seems to me that Laurie would have been the primary bread winner in the family. I can't image a small town police officer making more than a therapist. So did the tables get turned and Laurie put Kevin out?

Am I the only one who still doesn't get what's going on? It's been almost a season but I feel I'll have to read the book while season 2 is being made, just to understand the current episodes mean.

No and I think if you have to read the book to understand what's happening then the series is a fail.

 

That scene with Nora, the mayor, and Kevin Sr. solidified for me that the mayor and Kevin Sr. were more than just friends. Am I inferring too much?

The way she looked at Nora and said, " We're just friends." Felt like a big anvil of nudge, nudge, wink, wink "we're totally doing it." So no you aren't inferring too much.

 

Nora picked up the plastic yellow cup and took it with her after the spill, yet the plastic cup reappears on the floor under the table after they Departed.

That one is a continuity mistake.  I don't see where she puts it after she walks away from the table, but it does look as if she took the cup to the kitchen along with her phone.  Good catch.

 

 

I don't think that's what happened. From what I remember; kid knocks over juice, Nora's phone rings at the same time. She uprights the cup and grabs the phone with both hands trying to answer it. She then goes over to the kitchen, turning her back to the family and grabs paper towels wiping off the phone.

[izabella]

That scene with Nora, the mayor, and Kevin Sr. solidified for me that the mayor and Kevin Sr. were more than just friends. Am I inferring too much?

The way she looked at Nora and said, " We're just friends." Felt like a big anvil of nudge, nudge, wink, wink "we're totally doing it." So no you aren't inferring too much.

 

I thought we already knew that the mayor and Kevin Sr. were romantically involved.  They showed her visiting him in the nut house, and they also showed the scene where she tells Kevin that they she and Kevin Sr. are done because he's gone too far OTT. 

 

Or was the question about whether they were a thing before 10/14?

[ottoDbusdriver]

I don't think that's what happened. From what I remember; kid knocks over juice, Nora's phone rings at the same time. She uprights the cup and grabs the phone with both hands trying to answer it. She then goes over to the kitchen, turning her back to the family and grabs paper towels wiping off the phone.

 

Went back to the PVR -- after the juice spill, Nora definitely picks up the phone in her left and and the yellow cup in her right hand and walks back to the kitchen, but when the camera switches to the view from the kitchen the phone mysteriously appears in Nora's right hand and the yellow cup is gone (only to reappear on the floor under the table after the Departure occurs)

 

I thought we already knew that the mayor and Kevin Sr. were romantically involved.  They showed her visiting him in the nut house, and they also showed the scene where she tells Kevin that they she and Kevin Sr. are done because he's gone too far OTT.

 

Or was the question about whether they were a thing before 10/14?

 

We know that the mayor and Kevin Sr. were an item on the 3 year anniversary of the Departure, even after he went bonkers and was committed to the mental hospital.  But on the day of the Departure, aside from the "we're just friends" line there's nothing to confirm they are any more than that.  Even at the party at Kevin's house, the soon-to-be-mayor doesn't even seem to be interacting all that much with Kevin Sr. 

[ganesh]

Whether they were a thing before 1014. I think the point of the scene was actually she considering him just friends at that point, when we know they eventually become a thing. 

 

They really should have done a "just after the event episode" with time jumps to get us to +3 years. *That* would have actually revealed something. But that would have required TPTBs to do some heavy lifting. 

[seamusk]

I use words like "miscalculation" with this show because this is clearly where they wanted to take the character, and whatever it is they did, they've sure done it ... he's just not as interesting to me as he was meant to be, and that comes from the fact that he's adrift, he's always been adrift, and I don't know when he's going to find his footing.

For me that is exactly what makes him interesting.  Most people have varying degrees of competence for sure.  But so many are adrift in some way or another. I can relate to that aspect of his character.  And it's extremely common for people to be somewhere that isn't best suited for them.  

 

This show is not perfect, as really no show is.  And there are better shows for sure.  So far though, i'm enjoying it and I think the characterizations are great.

[Milaxx]

I thought we already knew that the mayor and Kevin Sr. were romantically involved.  They showed her visiting him in the nut house, and they also showed the scene where she tells Kevin that they she and Kevin Sr. are done because he's gone too far OTT. 

 

Or was the question about whether they were a thing before 10/14?

I thought the question was referring to pre 10/14. From the scene with Nora it felt like they were an item, but perhaps were doing a crappy job of being on the downlow.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Milaxx

[Cardie]

he's just not as interesting to me as he was meant to be, and that comes from the fact that he's adrift, he's always been adrift, and I don't know when he's going to find his footing.

 

 

I agree that Kevin Jr. is the central problem here. Theroux is easy on the eyes but not a great actor. There are ways in which the saga of a man alienated from his roles as husband, father and cop yet forced to double down on them when the other likely candidates to take over the jobs--Laurie and Kevin Sr.--go MIA could be a poignant one. But Kevin Jr. is also psychotic, blacking out while doing bizarre and violent things. This substitutes a gimmick for genuinely portrayed psychological struggle. Besides this backstory episode I've enjoyed the show most when it marginalized Kevin to follow Nora on her way to Holy Wayne's hug or Matt in his O. Henryesque tale of God's pigeons leading him to the jackpot that will save his church--only not, because brick to the head.

[Enigma X]

I inferred that Kevin Sr. and the mayor were an item before the last episode but we were never told that.

 

FWIW, I like Kevin Jr. and not because Theroux is "pretty." He is a complex character.

[stillshimpy]

Am I the only one who still doesn't get what's going on? It's been almost a season but I feel I'll have to read the book while season 2 is being made, just to understand the current episodes mean. - somebody other than me

 

No and I think if you have to read the book to understand what's happening then the series is a fail. - Milaxx

 

Not that the fate of the world, the thread or really pretty much anything is riding on it, but you've got me down as having written the first statement, Milaxx, and unless I'm getting my freaky-deaky- forgetting-on big time a la Kevin Jr. ,  I didn't type that.  Or say that. Or think it :-)  Not that it fails to be a noble sentiment or worthy of expressing (or typing or...Okay, I will stop now).  

Edited August 27, 2014 by stillshimpy

[ganesh]

Theroux is easy on the eyes but not a great actor.

 

To be fair, he's not given much to work with. I'm doubtful any of the actors have much of an inkling on their character arcs because there's not much there. "Be pissed off" seems to be what he's been directed to do. Some actor write little bios on their characters so they can be consistent over the long haul, but if there's nothing there they can only act in the moment. And that's fine, but if AB doesn't know why Laurie is in the GR, she can't convey anything. Having her not talk obviously helps.

[iMonrey]

I'm no expert, but was the doctor still holding the probe over Laurie's belly when the baby vanished? Otherwise, the only thing she could be looking at on the monitor was the picture that the doctor had just taken, not the current view. And people didn't vanish from pictures.

 

 

It's not like knowing Laurie was Patti's therapist has given us any insight on the GR.

 

It gives me even less. Now that we've established Patti had some pretty serious emotional problems, and Laurie was her doctor, it makes even less sense that Laurie would join some kind of cult run by this woman. And, by the way, in the diner scene when Patti mentioned "our last session," there was no time reference included (she did not say, for example, "before 10/14"). At the time I took it to mean they had some sort of indoctrination session while Laurie was joining the GR.

 

 

Yes, in that session with Patti, Laurie was professional, but still looked as if she were thinking, "Yeah, right, lady, again you think something bad is going to happen again, even though you've never been right before." I can see why Patti being right about that would lead to Laurie thinking of her as a prophet rather than as her delusional or neurotic patient.

 

That doesn't make any sense to me. Essentially, Patti was a Chicken Little who kept saying "something is going to happen." That's awfully vague. I get that what happened was pretty profound, but still. For Laurie to go running to a former patient who's heading this weird cult all "You were right, something happened!" makes Laurie seem even less stable than her former patient.

 

 

There's really not much going on. There's no directed narrative. But, it's supposed to be a "character study" and "about the journey." Which is a cop out. Because if you have people meandering around and milling about, there's not much journeying going on.

 

Thank you! The other one you can count on from critics is "I'm just enjoying the ride." Great if you're into that sort of thing, but personally, I don't enjoy being taken for a ride.

[shapeshifter]

...I don't see why anyone would join and, having joined, why anyone would stay other than free cigarettes....

I'm not a smoker, but I'm old enough to remember when it seemed most people were, and given the cost of cigarettes today, that might just be reason enough--although I don't think it is the entire reason. It's kind of funny that pre-10/14 Kevin was an addicted smoker (meaning he wanted to quit but couldn't).

I actually thought the theory that they were in purgatory was fine. You don't really have to explain much more than that. Then they piled on and it all fell in....

Now you've got me wondering if that's what this show is all about. Purgatory.

[txhorns79]

I wonder if the actors who are playing brother and sister Tommy and Jill are interested in each other IRL. It sort of seemed like that.

 

That's funny.  I thought Tommy and Laurie had some inappropriate chemistry when she was feeling her shirtless, hunky son's arm to look at his tattoo while he was sitting in his underwear in bed. 

 

 

I get that what happened was pretty profound, but still. For Laurie to go running to a former patient who's heading this weird cult all "You were right, something happened!" makes Laurie seem even less stable than her former patient.

 

I could believe that Laurie was more stable than Patty prior to 10/14, but she kind of blindly glommed onto her after (particularly if her fetus did vanish) because she was so lost, and Patty seemed as though she may have answers. 

[hardy har]

Props to wardrobe, makeup and the actress who plays Jill. It took me a minute to realize that was the same girl because my initial thought was, "Wow, whoever they cast looks just like a younger version of Downer Jill."

 

For everyone wondering about why Nora's useless husband was home. The night before when he got home so late he told Nora he's be home early the next day to make up for it.

 

Who are Tom's bio parents?

Who are Jill's bio parents?

We were already told about Kevin raising Tom as his own all while not being his bio dad and unless I fell asleep at some point there's never been any indication Kevin and Laurie aren't Jill's parents.

 

I am not privy to anything outside this show, and I deduced that there was some kind of prior relationship between them from Patti's "remember in our last session before everything changed" comment.    Referring to something as a "session" with someone has a pretty limited number of contexts.

I haven't read the book or any articles and, like you, I figured they had some sort of relationship prior the the GR when Patti described a prior meeting as a session. I didn't put together Laurie being Patti's therapist until Patti mentioning to Kevin that there was a time she told Laurie everything and vice versa.

 

Because people are inquisitive by nature and would want to investigate, even if there's no concrete result. Even proving nothing requires rigorous work. The show doesn't have to be about that, but when you have something like the dogs, giving the impression that there are people out there trying, makes a believable world. Something like this happens and in only 3 years people are like, "oh well I guess we don't know." I just don't buy it. That's just not how people are. I really think making the show 6 months to a year would have eliminated a lot of these issues. 

I've never got the impression that people have stopped trying to understand what happened. A worldwide Cataclysmic event occurred, so of course it would've been investigated and researched to hell and back by every government agency on the planet. Yes, it's been 3 years since The Departure and they still don't know what the fuck happened, but that doesn't mean people have stopped trying to figure it out.

 

They really should have done a "just after the event episode" with time jumps to get us to +3 years. *That* would have actually revealed something. But that would have required TPTBs to do some heavy lifting. 

ganesh, could you explain why do you think a "just after the event" episode is/was necessary? I'm not trying to be shitty, but you've mentioned it a lot and I genuinely don't see how that would clarify or reveal anything.

Edited August 28, 2014 by hardy har

[A Boston Gal]

Obviously, I'm not ganesh, but I would also be tempted to see a "just after" episode...or even a couple scenes, if only to establish that in "The Leftover" universe, people react to earth-shattering events the same as they do in this universe. I think many of the complaints about the characters on this show have boiled down to we're not 100% sure they are reacting as normal people would, whether it's how they're investigating/not investigating, they can't/haven't moved on,  strange cults have emerged with a disinterest/impunity from the world at large, and/or something weird is happening with animals. 

 

I think this episode did a great deal to establish the "normalcy" of these people and their pre-10/14 world.  Still, I wouldn't say no to a brief glimpse of what the next day brought for the Garvey family.

[Sofie Fatale]

I'm wondering that too Ganesh. They've given us a flashback episode showing what the main characters were up to when the event happened. Isn't that a good thing? Is it because it is almost the end of season, and therefor wasn't told in a linear way? IMO whether they showed this episode first or third wouldn't have clarified or revealed anything more. We would just be seeing the characters motivations through more informed eyes (vanishing fetus) but not many mysteries would be solved.