S01.E09: The Garveys At Their Best

[Tara Ariano]

Tom connects with his past, even though he knows it's a mistake. Meanwhile, Nora has a job interview; Kevin's father receives an honor; troubling news comes as no surprise to Laurie; and Kevin tracks down a rampaging deer, but can't seem to shake his bad habits.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Kevin tracks down a rampaging deer, but can't seem to shake his bad habits.

 

Really ?  Is it the same deer that supposedly trashed his kitchen over for no apparent reason 6 months ago.  Has it been on a rampage all this time, kind of like the marauding packs of feral dogs that have been roaming Mapleton for 3+ years ?

 

Kevin's father receives an honor

 

Best arson of a library by a sexagenarian.  Patient of the month at the psychiatric institution.

 

Tom connects with his past, even though he knows it's a mistake.

 

Tom comes home to Mapleton, what else could it be ?  Why is it a mistake ?  Probably since the show has never shown why he left in the first place, we (the viewer) don't know.

 

troubling news comes as no surprise to Laurie;

 

Obviously, the discovery that Patti is dead -- I wonder how BBA and Kevin cover that up to make it look like an accident ?  It's not as if there are other people wandering the woods outside Cairo that will stumble upon a body as they are also nailing dress shirts to tree.

 

Meanwhile, Nora has a job interview;

 

As q bulletproof vest salesperson -- she really trusts and believes in the product.

Edited August 22, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[ganesh]

I wouldn't be surprised if all that happened. For a show that's trying so hard to be weird, it's become boringly predictable nonsense. 

[Shermie]

Wow. Now that was an episode. It explained so much. The tension was palpable, knowing what was about to happen as everyone went about their mundane lives.

When Laurie was having the ultrasound, I did think, aha, I bet her baby will be among the Departed. And Hotcop was screwing some random hottie who just vanished in the middle of it all. That would mess with anyone's head.

It was nice to see everyone so happy and functional, kinda sad to see how they've turned out.

Interesting that the family lived in a big, modern (and I thought cold) house before Oct 14.

[benteen]

I enjoyed it too as it showed many (not all) of the townpeople actually being happy.  What a likeable show this can be!

 

So Tom's father beat him and his mother or molested him I take it?

[Zima]

My opinion is unpopular on this board (although not elsewhere) but I love this show, and this episode was no exception. I really felt for everyone, especially Nora since it was obvious that she was probably wishing that her family would disappear just moments before they really did. 

[seamusk]

I also love this show.  I know some folks don't like the backwards story telling but I kind of like it to a point.  And although I was disappointed that there was no current content in this week's episode, I thought it was a great episode and explained a lot.

 

For what it's worth, we got the confirmation that Laurie was Patti's therapist.  But I don't think that was ever revealed.  I'm pretty sure we got book spoiled on that one. I did think it was an interesting turn to have Laurie lose her baby.  It's interesting how she really wanted a dog and yet she already had something new to care for on the way.  We are strange emotional beasts though so I get it.

 

It also seems to me that the dogs and the animals and their behavior is because they also lost their kin. That actually makes sense to me.  It wasn't just the people, but the wildlife lost their "family" members.  And maybe they lost them before the 14th?  I'm curious about the answers there.

 

The thing about Kevin is that I think he is a good guy. He was struggling with something that a lot of us people struggle with, contentment.  He let that get into his skull, but I don't get the impression he is a serial philanderer or anything.  I'm glad to see that.  It was nice to see him less crazy at least.

 

Lots of other stuff happened here that i'm curious about.  Looking forward to next week's episode.

[stillshimpy]

I thought that was a great episode, and I do think they needed to wait this long to earn showing that.  I needed to see what they had all become to fully appreciate who they all were.  Smoking Kevin telling his Departed Dalliance that he wasn't a good guy was an interesting moment of understatement.  

 

I think Nora's story was actually the most painful. I think she'd just had a moment of wishing they all weren't there and then they quite simply weren't.  

 

So the Guilty Remnant was coming together on the 13th?  Yikes.  The truck full of women stopping for him, as he sat there in his white t-shirt, smoking, was something that genuinely startled me.  I guess it didn't occur to me that any group would have had prior knowledge.  As for whatever the hell is going on with that Buck, I just can't even begin to guess.  

 

It was almost startling to see Laurie speaking.  Amy Brennan has done such a great job with this role, I sometimes forget she never speaks in it.  Or, at least, up until now.  

 

I didn't like the details added to Matt's story though.  It just seemed a little odd that they felt the need to establish why Matt's wife was driving.  It's not like it's unusual for a woman to drive, after all.  

[stefinny]

I think they all had a moment of wishing the departed weren't there, right before it happened.  Wasn't Laurie considering terminating the pregnancy? (Or maybe I misunderstood.)  And Kevin was likely regretting his dalliance at the moment.  The kids in school?  Who knows?  Maybe jealousy on the other students' part?  It seems like that could be a common thread (those around them wishing them gone or regretting their presence.)

.

[Zima]

I thought Laurie was considering an abortion also. When she was trying to cancel the appointment, the person on the phone said something about her getting to the point of no return or something (can't remember exactly) in reference to what we now know was her pregnancy. 

 

The GM was most definitely starting up already before the disappearances happened. I wonder why? That was a haunting scene with Kevin smoking in his white shirt as the car full of ladies pulled up to him. 

[xlibris]

As soon as I saw the ultrasound image, I started shaking my head in dread. Nice one, show.

 

This is the episode we've been missing. I think I could have forgiven the main characters' likability problems if I'd known what had been lost. It figures that 10/13 Laurie was pretty cool, but I was not ready for how sharp the kids were, and what chemistry they had. Get Jill and Tom together again ASAP. I still don't like Kevin, but I can see where his mess comes from, and if he has to fix himself before he can give anyone else what they need, I'm more inclined to root for that.

 

The subtle callbacks were a treat. The developmentally challenged man whose parents Nora would end up interviewing later, for one.

 

It was very poignant to see what Nora actually lost — the reality, not the idealized version — and what she was going through when she lost them. And FWIW, her daughter reminded me a lot of my niece. Something about kids who are so frank at that age ...

[phillychick33]

I also love this show.  I know some folks don't like the backwards story telling but I kind of like it to a point.  And although I was disappointed that there was no current content in this week's episode, I thought it was a great episode and explained a lot.

 

For what it's worth, we got the confirmation that Laurie was Patti's therapist.  But I don't think that was ever revealed.  I'm pretty sure we got book spoiled on that one. I did think it was an interesting turn to have Laurie lose her baby.  It's interesting how she really wanted a dog and yet she already had something new to care for on the way.  We are strange emotional beasts though so I get it.

 

 

I love the show too!  I was a little thrown by it being all flashback.. kept expecting Kevin to wake up and come back to 2014. lol

 

About the baby.. I really need to rewatch the ep, but I got the impression Laurie wasn't going to keep it.  She hadn't told Kevin; the doc mentioned "counseling".. just her overall sadness.  I don't think she really wanted a dog, it was her way of testing out Kevin.. and by him not wanting it, he failed miserably.  If he didn't want the responsibility of a dog, how on earth would he welcome a child?  Yet he rushes out to save the deer and she tells him, yes, "better go save it."  And wasn't it funny how Patti tells her, "Something's wrong.. inside you" hmm.. Definitey not a happy marriage at play there.

 

Laughed out oud when Kevin lifted the sheet... Really, Kevin?  Did you REALLY think she was under there??!? ahaha

[shapeshifter]

For what it's worth, we got the confirmation that Laurie was Patti's therapist.  But I don't think that was ever revealed.  I'm pretty sure we got book spoiled on that one.

Yeah, I'm pretty annoyed that I felt robbed of the surprise on that one, but I'm guessing the spoiler person(s) didn't do it on purpose--like maybe they thought they'd seen it in the show.

So they all used the F word and more before the event. That surprised me.

I wonder if the actors who are playing brother and sister Tommy and Jill are interested in each other IRL. It sort of seemed like that. Or maybe Laurie isn't Jill's bio mom, which would mean Jill and Tommy are not related?

That deer was pretty monstrous.

I wonder if that was the only time Kevin screwed someone not his wife, or if it was part of a pattern. I wasn't sure if his dad was referring to screwing around or smoking or giving in to existential angst when he told Kevin to cut it out.

[phillychick33]

Yeah, I'm pretty annoyed that I felt robbed of the surprise on that one, but I'm guessing the spoiler person(s) didn't do it on purpose--like maybe they thought they'd seen it in the show.

Some people suspected Laurie was a therapist pre-Oct 14th based on the diner convo when Patti says "remember what you told me in our last session."  I suspected right away "Neil" might turn out to be Patti's husband, but I wasn't completely sold on the doctor-patient relationship, and kind of dismissed it.  So it wasn't really a spoiler.. Bravo to those who caught it!

 

Wonder what other patients Laurie had and what their secrets were, and how that plays into her now being a member of the GR!  Would be funny if any of her patients were seeing her hubby....

[phillychick33]

The subtle callbacks were a treat. The developmentally challenged man whose parents Nora would end up interviewing later, for one.

Agree!  I especially liked the shot of the woman with the crying baby driving up alongside Laurie, and they looks they exchanged.

[Constantinople]

Since Matt's wife and Laurie were in the same waiting room, does this mean that Matt's not pregnant?

[Kris117]

Interesting that the family lived in a big, modern (and I thought cold) house before Oct 14.

Is that the house that is now the GR headquarters? Kevin and Jill are living in Kevin Sr.'s house, right? All the walls in the GR house are white, from what I recall, and there are some big rooms, like the communal dining room. What an additional slap in the face to Kevin, Tom and Jill that would be. It ties in with what Laurie said to Patti in their session. Patti apparently gave up her house in the divorce because "it didn't belong to me," and Laurie responded by saying "that's not how it works in divorce." That's paraphrasing, but I think I got the gist of it.

 

 

I enjoyed it too as it showed many (not all) of the townpeople actually being happy.  What a likeable show this can be!

 

So Tom's father beat him and his mother or molested him I take it?

Something like that. I even wondered if the bio father raped Laurie, which resulted in the pregnancy. Whatever it was, it must have been awful. Poor Tom. It was fun and yet so sad to see the warm relationship between Tom and Jill.

I really felt for everyone, especially Nora since it was obvious that she was probably wishing that her family would disappear just moments before they really did.

Yes, that really underlined for me why she was so obsessed with her shopping routine, for instance. One of the kids spilled juice on her cell phone right before disappearing, so that sheds some light on her routine of buying juice and other kid favorites every week and then throwing them out.

 

 

I think Nora's story was actually the most painful. I think she'd just had a moment of wishing they all weren't there and then they quite simply weren't.  

 

So the Guilty Remnant was coming together on the 13th?  Yikes.  The truck full of women stopping for him, as he sat there in his white t-shirt, smoking, was something that genuinely startled me.  I guess it didn't occur to me that any group would have had prior knowledge.  As for whatever the hell is going on with that Buck, I just can't even begin to guess.  

 

It was almost startling to see Laurie speaking.  Amy Brennan has done such a great job with this role, I sometimes forget she never speaks in it.  Or, at least, up until now.  

 

I didn't like the details added to Matt's story though.  It just seemed a little odd that they felt the need to establish why Matt's wife was driving.  It's not like it's unusual for a woman to drive, after all.

Yes, the women in the truck who pulled up by Kevin was an interesting detail. And while I expected to see Nora and Patti, seeing Gladys as the warm and caring puppy breeder and knowing she would become a martyr to the cause was painful.

If Matt had had a few right before the car crash that injured his wife, that might explain why he did something so stupid as to move a woman who had possible head or spinal injuries without taking any precautions.

They did a good job of making Jill look younger, and she used a slightly higher voice for her lines, which also helped. She was so playful and kittenish that contrast between that Jill and the one in the present was hard to watch. And to see Laurie so groomed and polished, when in the present she looks rougher and rougher each week, was also a shock. Then she takes Kevin to task for lying about still smoking.

I got the impression that that was the first time Kevin had been unfaithful. Maybe I don't want to think that badly of someone with such beautiful eyes, but I thought it was part a reaction to the trauma he and the woman had shared, and part the product of discontent with his life. As Kevin Sr. said, coming face to face with "Is this the way my life is going to be from now on?" is painful and unsettling.

[LadyJaney]

I confess, that all I kept looking at in the beginning scenes was the huge bulge in Kevin's sweatpants during the jogging scenes.  It's like the more I tried not to look, the more I did look.  Jennifer Aniston is one lucky woman...

 

Good episode.  Puts a lot into perspective as to where these character were in their lives before the disappearance.  I feel like I have to re-watch it to really grasp it all.

[scratches]

I think that Tom's falther abandoned Laurie and Tom.  It seemed like Tom didn't know that Kevin wasn't his bio father until they told him.  The guy was in the picture with pregnant Laurie, so I doubt he raped her.  I wonder if he was one of the departed.

[shapeshifter]

Since Matt's wife and Laurie were in the same waiting room, does this mean that Matt's not pregnant?

Matt's wife could have lost her baby due to the trauma of the accident. That gives another reason for Matt's behavior.

Is that the house that is now the GR headquarters? Kevin and Jill are living in Kevin Sr.'s house, right? All the walls in the GR house are white, from what I recall, and there are some big rooms, like the communal dining room. What an additional slap in the face to Kevin, Tom and Jill that would be. It ties in with what Laurie said to Patti in their session. Patti apparently gave up her house in the divorce because "it didn't belong to me," and Laurie responded by saying "that's not how it works in divorce." That's paraphrasing, but I think I got the gist of it. Something like that....

I thought Patti told therapist Laurie that her husband had given her money for the house, but maybe I misunderstood and she just said that he had paid for it. Either way, she hadn't wanted to leave the house, and looked as "rough" as she did as a GR--like maybe she was homeless. Do we know if Patti had children?

So was that the same deer that damaged the inside of the Garvey house? Is the deer that Kevin sees in the early (first?) episode the one he shot? Like he's hallucinating it because he hadn't wanted to kill it?

ETA: If that's the "Garveys At Their Best," they were never a Beaver Cleaver family.

Edited August 25, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Armchair Critic]

The makeup (or lighting?) is bad on this show, Kevin's face looks so orange. And I have a small tv with no HD.

 

I don't think Kevin got to complete what he was doing, he had just pushed her on the bed.

 

Gladys was likeable, but even then Patti got on my nerves.

 

It has got to be a running joke that Kevin always says fuck you to the mayor because he did it tonight too.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Being the Chief of Police, Kevin should know better that on a street with no sidewalk you always run on the side of the road going against the flow of traffic (especially if you are wearing headphones) so you can see if a car is about to hit you.

 

Yay !!! Janel Moloney had lines of dialogue.

 

Did Kevin Garvey ever shave his 2 day stubble even before the Departure ?

 

Timestamp on the Ultrasound machine at the Departure time -- 2:23pm -- and it never changed, so that's probably when the ultrasound examination started recording.

 

Based on that, did Kevin spend the entire day with the mystery woman who hit the deer, drinking and banging ?  Because it was still early in the morning when he got that call about the deer (he had just come back from his run).  Didn't anyone at the police station wonder why he didn't show up at work at all ?  Because he was in his uniform. Plus, that woman had much darker hair than the woman in his flashback in Episode 1.

 

Why wasn't Nora Durst's husband at work ?  Why was she making grilled cheese sandwiches for lunch after 2pm if they had been home all day ?   Nora picked up the plastic yellow cup and took it with her after the spill, yet the plastic cup reappears on the floor under the table after they Departed.

 

Matt and Marie had just left the doctor's office -- and didn't really have time for Matt to go get drunk before the Departure occurred.  So why was Marie even driving ?

 

Laurie's fetus departing puts an even bigger twist on things.  That ultrasound looked like a baby around 12-14 weeks.

No one in the series had even mentioned or alluded that something like this had happened as part of the Departure (Laurie can't be the only one, and that really skews a lot of those now seemingly meaningless questions that Nora was asking).

 

How did neither of the 2 kids standing right behind the girl in the science fair circuit that disappeared not even notice that she had disappeared ?  Or even say something like "Hey, that girl just disappeared, where did she go ?" They were right there and would have seen it happen.  No sound. No bright light. Nothing. They just disappeared. Where were Amy and the Frost twins at high school ?

 

ETA:

Matt's wife could have lost her baby due to the trauma of the accident. That gives another reason for Matt's behavior.

 

I think Marie was probably referring something like Matt previously having cancer, as she said that they had found something and it had been a problem for Matt when he was young and it recurred every few years.

 

So was that the same deer that damaged the inside of the Garvey house?

 

Nope.  Not after Kevin shot it in the head and killed (at least 3 years before his kitchen was trashed by another deer).

 

I don't think Kevin got to complete what he was doing, he had just pushed her on the bed.

 

In his flashback in Episode 1, Kevin and the mystery woman were being very .... enthusiastic.  And based on the time of the Departure and the empty liquor bottles, they spent several hours in that hotel room.

 

I wonder if the actors who are playing brother and sister Tommy and Jill are interested in each other IRL. It sort of seemed like that.

They did seem overly touchy-feely.

 

This should have been Episode 1 -- and then Episode 2 would have begun with "3 years later".

Edited August 25, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Trick Question]

It also seems to me that the dogs and the animals and their behavior is because they also lost their kin. That actually makes sense to me.  It wasn't just the people, but the wildlife lost their "family" members.  And maybe they lost them before the 14th?  I'm curious about the answers there.

 

This is a really good theory.  There's been relatively little discussion of how the world is "exploring" the Sudden Departure aside from Nora's agency, though I wonder if two percent of the animal population also vanished.  (Admittedly, this would be a lot harder to investigate and/or prove.)

[shapeshifter]

I think Marie was probably referring something like Matt previously having cancer, as she said that they had found something and it had been a problem for Matt when he was young and it recurred every few years.

Oh, right! So either it's one of those offices where several different types of doctors share a single reception area, or Laurie was seeing her GP about the pregnancy.

Nope. Not after Kevin shot it in the head and killed (at least 3 years before his kitchen was trashed by another deer)....

Unless it got resurrected? Hey, it wouldn't be out of place on this show. But yeah, more likely it's another deer.

Were all the disappeared people who were blamed by the leftovers for their unhappiness? If so, that puts a more obvious spin on "Guilty Remnant" as a choice for the cult name.

Edited August 25, 2014 by shapeshifter

[BooBear]

I confess, that all I kept looking at in the beginning scenes was the huge bulge in Kevin's sweatpants during the jogging scenes.  It's like the more I tried not to look, the more I did look.  Jennifer Aniston is one lucky woman...

 

Seriously.  It was like a new character. I also had trouble with the orange color on Kevin in some of the scenes. Make up people take note.

 

I guess I really don't understand how losing the baby could shatter Laurie like that. First, people lose babies all the time (in much worse circumstances -- D&C anyone?) and she didn't seem to want it anyway. I just do not get it.  I think that was a fail. But I do think cheating on your wife and then having that person depart could really mess someone up. He probably couldn't tell anyone about it. I guess that means it wans't the rapture because someone having sex with a married man is not exactly good. If only Matt knew he would have her on a poster.

 

It was nice to see Gladys again under better circumstances.

[Guest]

I confess, that all I kept looking at in the beginning scenes was the huge bulge in Kevin's sweatpants during the jogging scenes. It's like the more I tried not to look, the more I did look

Why, hello, Internet doppleganger! I also had laser focus on the bulge in the next jogging scene. (It seemed to be on the other side of his pants.)

Good episode. Had it been maybe the second episode of the series I would hate the show less at this point. As it is, it comes a little too late for me. I still don't care enough to keep watching beyond this season.

[stillshimpy]

I got the impression that that was the first time Kevin had been unfaithful. Maybe I don't want to think that badly of someone with such beautiful eyes, but I thought it was part a reaction to the trauma he and the woman had shared, and part the product of discontent with his life. As Kevin Sr. said, coming face to face with "Is this the way my life is going to be from now on?" is painful and unsettling.

 

I got the feeling it was sort of a regular occurrence.  When Kevin talked to his father, wondering "what's wrong with me?"  (I think meaning that he couldn't be content with what most people would consider everything that could make a person happy) it seemed that he was referring to more than just an inability to quit smoking.  He fell into bed with random woman pretty easily and I think it would have been a bigger deal for him if he'd been faithful to his wife for what was clearly more than a decade (based on Tom and Jill's ages).  So I got the feeling he was a serial philanderer and the entire conversation about smoking when talking to Laurie was coded to indicate that she suspected. 

Plus, I think there's a good chance that Kevin Jr. would be even crazier if he'd spent all those years being faithful, only to finally throw it away on a random stranger, in one of the sadder motels around and then have her freaking disappear off the actual face of the Earth.  On top of everything else, that poor Departed Dalliance was attending a truly crappy conference if that's where she got to stay during it.  

 

I do think Laurie was considering abortion, when the image of the baby came up on the sonogram the doctor said something like, "There it is." and the phrasing struck me as odd.  Just the use of "it" , because even when you don't want to know the gender, a doctor will usually say "There's your baby!" rather than "it".   As for why the baby departing would screw her up that much even if she was considering abortion, I think because she was only considering an abortion due to the state of her marriage and the timing of the pregnancy.  She loves her existing children, it would be a very difficult decision and just like the moment Nora has where it's sort of clear she wishes her life was anything other than constant demands for juice and shuttling children, it would feel like a punishment from on high to have something just disappear at your whim, let alone someone.  

Whatever Laurie was considering, it would feel like divine retribution to have the decision just taken away, but then there is the fact that anything or anyone disappearing would fuck up a reality base beyond description.  

Just as a complete aside, I love the score for this show.  It's really very haunting.  I'm talking about the piano music that plays, generally towards the end of the episode.  

As for whatever happened with Tom's dad, I didn't get the feeling that it was any more awful or terrible than a garden variety case of commitment issues alongside a whopping case of "I'm not ready! I'll just run away now!" and that Tom was angry with this man because he's clearly married with children now.  By the way, that's another thing that indicates that perhaps abortion would be a tough decision for Laurie, she apparently had Tom under less than ideal circumstances.  

Edited August 25, 2014 by stillshimpy

[NorthstarATL]

Seriously.  It was like a new character. I also had trouble with the orange color on Kevin in some of the scenes. Make up people take note.

 

I guess I really don't understand how losing the baby could shatter Laurie like that. First, people lose babies all the time (in much worse circumstances -- D&C anyone?) and she didn't seem to want it anyway. I just do not get it.  I think that was a fail. But I do think cheating on your wife and then having that person depart could really mess someone up. He probably couldn't tell anyone about it. I guess that means it wans't the rapture because someone having sex with a married man is not exactly good. If only Matt knew he would have her on a poster.

 

It was nice to see Gladys again under better circumstances.

But she was looking right at the ultrasound when the baby departed. That has to be a lot more overwhelming than finding out after the fact. Plus, there's a huge difference between consciously aborting and having someone else make the decision for you (even if the results are the same). I don't like what Laurie became, but her situation was the one that resonated with me, also because we knew Kevin and Nora's stories prior to this episode.

       Seeing how close Tom and Jill were, and that, while they were in a situation where they were keenly aware of what had happened, they themselves survived, I can't see how they wound up as separated as they are currently. You'd think you'd want t hang on to anything that mattered and was still intact. Especially with their parents falling apart as they did. I'm not a huge fan of Jill's friend, the ex-houseguest (and possible fling), but I was also surprised not to see her in the episode. Or did I miss something?

[Pallas]

That was extremely moving.  

 

Mr. Lindelof, please make peace with your niche.  If people say. "Well, all he has to say, he said with LOST; all he brings to the table is that flashbacks-frame-the-present thing," well then, let them, and go on practicing your craft.  As Kevin Sr. would say, "You have no greater purpose. It is enough."  

 

Don't even bother retorting, "And how often do you enjoy flashbacks within dramatic narrative? How many times have you found flashbacks illuminating, resonant, or even imaginative?  Maybe I am a one-trick pony.  But so was Secretariat."

 

But she was looking right at the ultrasound when the baby departed. That has to be a lot more overwhelming than finding out after the fact. Plus, there's a huge difference between consciously aborting and having someone else make the decision for you (even if the results are the same).

-- Northstar ATL

 

Absolutely.  Laurie saw whatever happened, happen inside her own body, inside her own womb.  She saw her own mid-life "miracle" pregnancy get revoked -- or rather, she discovered that she had, in an instant while she was looking elsewhere, crossed that point of no return.  

 

One truism about grief is, the more we are ambivalent, the worse we grieve.

 

Given the gap between conception and the mother's certainty of it, one thing that can't be calculated is what percent of pregnancies disappeared on October 14th.  Was it 2% as well?  More?  Less?  More first-trimester than later, or not?  In any event, even if 2% of all pregnancies worldwide vanished at that moment, it is possible that Laurie is the only expectant mother alive to have immediately, actually witnessed the loss.  

[Enigma X]

I am a huge fan of the show and thought this episode was great and what I needed to understand the characters better. I still don't have any delusions that the end payoff may not be enough for me. The mystery bar, as was in LOST, has been set pretty high. I get, though, that the show may not be about that. Still, this is one of my favorite new shows.

 

I wish this episode would have tied Wayne in somehow. He still seems to be so disconnected from everyone else but his "message" seems so very connected to the overall plot. Maybe that is just me though.

[Shermie]

I guess I really don't understand how losing the baby could shatter Laurie like that. First, people lose babies all the time (in much worse circumstances -- D&C anyone?) and she didn't seem to want it anyway. I just do not get it.

 

Although I think the concept and mindset of the GR is crazy, I don't fault Laurie for going nuts after literally seeing her baby vanish from inside her. The Departed as a concept is creepy enough, but to have someone disappear from within your own body? Creeee-py.

 

How did neither of the 2 kids standing right behind the girl in the science fair circuit that disappeared not even notice that she had disappeared ?  Or even say something like "Hey, that girl just disappeared, where did she go ?" They were right there and would have seen it happen.

 

I thought they did show the other kids in the room looking around, baffled at the sudden disappearance(s).

 

No sound. No bright light. Nothing. They just disappeared.

 

Why would there be bright lights or sound? That's not what happened when anyone disappeared. They just did.

 

Where were Amy and the Frost twins at high school ?

 

In other classes? Why would they all be in the same room? It might be convenient to have had them all together when the Departure happened, but ridiculously unrealistic.

 

Why wasn't Nora Durst's husband at work ?  Why was she making grilled cheese sandwiches for lunch after 2pm if they had been home all day ?

 

That does seem odd. I thought maybe it was a Saturday, but the older kids were at school. What time did the Departure happen?

[seamusk]

About the baby.. I really need to rewatch the ep, but I got the impression Laurie wasn't going to keep it.  She hadn't told Kevin; the doc mentioned "counseling".. just her overall sadness.  I don't think she really wanted a dog, it was her way of testing out Kevin.. and by him not wanting it, he failed miserably.  If he didn't want the responsibility of a dog, how on earth would he welcome a child?  Yet he rushes out to save the deer and she tells him, yes, "better go save it."  And wasn't it funny how Patti tells her, "Something's wrong.. inside you" hmm.. Definitey not a happy marriage at play there.

 

Laughed out oud when Kevin lifted the sheet... Really, Kevin?  Did you REALLY think she was under there??!? ahaha

 

I think you are right.  Not sure how I missed that as it was a fairly obvious theme.  I really like the side of Kevin that cares so much for animals.  Though, i'm a fan of critters so I know that's just a personal bias.  And yes, Kevin moving the sheets around was hilarious.

Given the gap between conception and the mother's certainty of it, one thing that can't be calculated is what percent of pregnancies disappeared on October 14th.  Was it 2% as well?  More?  Less?  More first-trimester than later, or not?  In any event, even if 2% of all pregnancies worldwide vanished at that moment, it is possible that Laurie is the only expectant mother alive to have immediately, actually witnessed the loss.  

 

I think that's right.  It'd be incredibly rare to be watching the ultrasound monitor while your baby disappears.  And there is something about the GR, how did they know in advance? That does sort of get back to the idea that the animals knew something bad was coming and that drove them crazy.

 

I wish this episode would have tied Wayne in somehow. He still seems to be so disconnected from everyone else but his "message" seems so very connected to the overall plot. Maybe that is just me though.

I can do without Wayne. But maybe we can call him Wayne Targaryen?

[Zaku]

I understand that is an artistic choice, but how is it possible that no one saw anyone disappear? And there are no video recording  of any disappearance?!?

[Enigma X]

 

First, people lose babies all the time (in much worse circumstances -- D&C anyone?) and she didn't seem to want it anyway. I just do not get it.

 

I just think that something like that is so personal to the one actually going through it and is handled in many different "not wrong" ways that just can't be compared to anyone else. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

I understand that is an artistic choice, but how is it possible that no one saw anyone disappear? And there are no video recording  of any disappearance?!?

 

In this day with everyone recording everything with smartphones and security cameras everywhere -- there has to be many recordings of the Departed ... departing.

 

That does seem odd. I thought maybe it was a Saturday, but the older kids were at school. What time did the Departure happen?

 

The date display on the ultrasound machine indicated Oct. 14, 2011 -- which was a Friday.  The time on the ultrasound machine indicated 2:23pm

 

The Departed as a concept is creepy enough, but to have someone disappear from within your own body? Creeee-py.

 

Were the unborn counted as part of the 2% ?

Edited August 25, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Zaku]

In this day with everyone recording everything with smartphones and security cameras everywhere -- there has to be many recordings of the Departed ... departing.

 

 I remember after the 11/9 the tv put in infinity loops the video of the crashing planes... and stil today on every anniversary there are pictures of the tragedy on newspapers, tv news and web sites. But in Leftovers universe nothing. And no character in the show was looking at anyone while he/she was disappearing.

(As English is not my native language, sorry for any grammar mistake :( )

[xlibris]

I wish this episode would have tied Wayne in somehow. He still seems to be so disconnected from everyone else but his "message" seems so very connected to the overall plot. Maybe that is just me though.

We got his back story in the raid episode, and I'm OK with letting his powers be a subject of debate. (Although I'm betting on BS.)

 

I understand that is an artistic choice, but how is it possible that no one saw anyone disappear? And there are no video recording  of any disappearance?!?

I've been thinking about that, too. Someone must have seen it ... but what if no one did? What if  the only people who were taken were out of view at that particular moment? It's more interesting to me to only know the fact and not the circumstances.

[Constantinople]

If Kevin's fling was driving a rental, how fortunate it was for her to vanish so that she doesn't have to fight it out with the rental company over the damage caused by hitting the deer (not that dealing with her regular insurance company over her own car would have been any great shakes).

 

How do the authorities distinguish between those who "Departed" and those who disappeared due to ordinary reasons.  Kevin's fling was a woman travelling alone in a strange town who is never seen again.  She could have been murdered (I've been known to watch ID Discovery from time to time).  In this case, if Kevin tells the truth, she'd be marked down as "Departed".  But what if he lies, says he dropped her off at the motel and then never saw her again?  Perhaps the authorities don't bother and just presume everyone "Departed".

[Zaku]

 

 

I've been thinking about that, too. Someone must have seen it ... but what if no one did? What if  the only people who were taken were out of view at that particular moment? It's more interesting to me to only know the fact and not the circumstances.

 It's a interesting theory....

[Primetimer]

In a great, packed episode, The Leftovers delves into its pre-Rapture days and fills in a lot of blanks.

Read the story

[Shermie]

I understand that is an artistic choice, but how is it possible that no one saw anyone disappear? And there are no video recording  of any disappearance?!?

 

Well, Kevin was in the middle of having sex with the Departed Fling (now there's a role for your resume) so he would have seen, or at least felt her vanishing. The kids at the high school were holding hands in a circle when one disappeared, so they noticed that and obviously saw that person vanish. Hence, their stunned looks. 

 

How do the authorities distinguish between those who "Departed" and those who disappeared due to ordinary reasons.

 

They can't, because you can't prove something you can't explain. But I'm sure there were a few assholes who took advantage of the Departure to kill off someone they wanted to get rid, and then claim they were among the 2%. Didn't someone fake their disappearance or file false death claims or something after 9/11?

 

If Kevin's fling was driving a rental, how fortunate it was for her to vanish so that she doesn't have to fight it out with the rental company over the damage caused by hitting the deer

 

I know you're joking, but if the Departure hadn't happened, she wouldn't have had much trouble with insurance, since the accident was witnessed by a police officer.

[stillshimpy]

The mystery bar, as was in LOST, has been set pretty high. I get, though, that the show may not be about that. Still, this is one of my favorite new shows.

 

I'm with you, and I'm not sure when it happened.  The first few episodes were not that riveting for me and I found a lot of the narrative choices to be a little annoying, but somewhere around the Nora centered episode I started watching this show on the same night it aired.  Then I started looking forward to it airing.  I can't even really explain it other than starting to care about the characters.  It's not like the show changed radically from then until now, but now I'm so glad I tuned in.  

 

I was not going to guess that Laurie had a baby disappear from inside of her, which would freak a human being out beyond my ability to describe it.  It's nothing at all like having a medical procedure to terminate a pregnancy.  I'm very pro-choice, but it's not comparable.  This involves an unseen force being able to exert enough power over her body -- a body, in concept mine or yours -- and take from it what it chooses.  Just knowing that there was something in the world that could do that would be a mind-screw without equal.  To know that you are just that helpless in the face of it would bend reality enough to possibly break it.  

 

What could it take next?  Your heart?  Your brain?  If something can take away a part of you, no matter what you planned on doing with it, then it can do anything to you or in your life.  It isn't about losing a baby, at least I doubt it's really that, it's about being that helpless to the whims of whatever just did that to you and the world.  

 

So I get why Laurie was beyond messed up by that in the aftermath.  The whole concept of being pro-choice is the belief that "It is your body, it is your choice."  So....Jeez, talk about a bizarre occurrence that would challenge the belief that you in anyway, hold dominion over your own body.  General use of the word "you" as opposed to specific and because using "one" and "ones" feels a tad stiff and overly mannered when using it as many times as I just did, but I think that's how it would feel. 

 

The biggest shock was the contrast from joyless Jill of today and then, as the perky, happy 13-year-old.  The contrast to that girl vs. who Jill is now actually made me appreciate how wrongly Laurie has acted.  Maybe Kevin Jr. deserved a good dumping, it certainly seemed like it to me, not just because he boffed the deer assassin, but because he had a lovely, enviable life -- knew it and even wondered why it wasn't enough for him.  So maybe he did deserve to be left and maybe not, but one thing is for certain to my mind: Laurie's remaining children didn't deserve that and regardless of how old they were, when reality breaks, everyone would need the few people in the world who made them feel secure.  I felt for Laurie and I liked Laurie, but wow, what a heinous thing she did to her poor, sunny, silly daughter.  

Edited August 25, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Guest]

I'm wondering if the entirety of the Apple Corporation disappeared on Disappearance Day because everyone seemed to have an iPhone 5 that day and three years on from that.

[RedHackle]

I like the show too, very much.  I find it dark and creepy and very well-written and -acted.  I think there were people looking directly at others when they disappeared - we heard a woman scream during Laurie's ultrasound, presumably because she was looking right at somone who disappeared. 

 

For the person who suggested we start calling him "Wayne Targaryen", I totally dribbled water down my chin.  Well played.

 

And I don't find it so absurd that Kevin lifted the sheets; if I was in bed someone and I 'lost' them, my very first thought would be that my mind was playing tricks on me and that the position of the sheets was creating some kind of optical illusion- I would probably have had the same reaction as Kevin.

 

Thought it was another great episode.  But yes, Kevin, please shave.  With your shirt off.  Do it now, I'll wait. 

[stillshimpy]

I like the show too, very much.  I find it dark and creepy and very well-written and -acted.  I think there were people looking directly at others when they disappeared

 

I am not sure why it's assumed that there is no footage of people disappearing, by the way.  I think it might have started because they still don't have an explanation for what happened -- and frankly, good luck with that, Pretend World, because good grief, it would be beyond baffling -- and someone wondered why they didn't just look at video footage.  The show hasn't mentioned footage one way or the other.  

 

I think it's kind of a given that there is footage.  It just didn't reveal anything other than someone being there one moment and gone the next.  I'm sure slowing down the frame didn't reveal anything either.  The reason I'm sure? Three years later they are still trying to figure it out, which means that whatever they have now hasn't revealed the cause and doesn't mean they didn't have any video footage, all it means is that it didn't lead them to any conclusions.  

[Cardie]

I didn't like the details added to Matt's story though. It just seemed a little odd that they felt the need to establish why Matt's wife was driving. It's not like it's unusual for a woman to drive, after all.

I think this was just to make Matt feel guilty because he had asked her to drive when their custom was apparently for him to drive when they were both in the car.

The show has never made a point that no one saw a person vanish before their very eyes or that no videos recorded it. The show simply withholds such views from us, the audience. For its own reasons, whatever those may be.

The flashbacks do hint that departing had to do more with the "leftovers" then with those taken. That is, if a human had been subconsciously wishing away a person important in their lives, they got a horrific lesson in "Be careful what you wish for." (You can see that the elderly couple loves their Downs son but can also imagine the strain of caring for him as they advance in years.) That theory would prove that for all Kevin's dissatisfaction, he never wanted his family gone--it is the distraction that vanishes.

[Addlepated]

I could NOT figure out what was going on with Tom and the hippie-father.  Was he really a bad guy?  He didn't seem like one; Kevin seemed like he was overreacting in that scene.  But in the one leading up to it in the car, Tom had a classic abused "It was my fault!" reaction.  We're supposed to fill in the gaps there, I guess, but I paused the show after that scene and worked mightily to come up with the right narrative that would account for all the variables and got nothing.

 

Who are Tom's bio parents?

Who are Jill's bio parents?

 

I guess that's a start.

[Constantinople]

The show has never made a point that no one saw a person vanish before their very eyes or that no videos recorded it. The show simply withholds such views from us, the audience. For its own reasons, whatever those may be.

Game of Thrones sucks up the entirety of HBO's special effects budget?

 

The flashbacks do hint that departing had to do more with the "leftovers" then with those taken. That is, if a human had been subconsciously wishing away a person important in their lives, they got a horrific lesson in "Be careful what you wish for." (You can see that the elderly couple loves their Downs son but can also imagine the strain of caring for him as they advance in years.) That theory would prove that for all Kevin's dissatisfaction, he never wanted his family gone--it is the distraction that vanishes.

But I bet Kevin sure wanted Vehicular Bambislayer to vanish after they were done and never come back.

If it's merely sufficient to want someone to disappear, whether a loved one or no, that explains Gary Busey, J Lo and a few others.

 

I could NOT figure out what was going on with Tom and the hippie-father.  Was he really a bad guy?  He didn't seem like one; Kevin seemed like he was overreacting in that scene.

How did Kevin get tapped to replace his dad as Chief of Police after pops went nuts?

There's a history of mental illness in the family and Kevin was beating the crap out of people even before the Depature.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Constantinople

[meep.meep]

Is there significance to the fact that everyone at Kevin Sr.'s "surprise" party is a Leftover?

[Addlepated]

Is everyone?  I didn't recognize a lot of people there, so I figured some of them were Departed fodder.  I'm bad with faces, though.