S06.E08: Legalese and a Whole Hoo-Ha

[DanaK]

Quote

Sheldon's database invention puts him at odds with the university. Also, the church takes issue with Meemaw's video store, on YOUNG SHELDON, Thursday, Dec. 8 (8:00-8:31 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network, and available to stream live and on demand on Paramount+
 

[ams1001]

I'm surprised Sheldon is just accepting the terms of this contract...shouldn't he be all over the details? He loves contracts.

"No more prison movies for you."

[SoMuchTV]

Wait a minute. Sheldon invented this new innovative database thingie. But meanwhile, Mandy can look up any movies anyone’s ever rented at Meemaw’s video store. Hmmm…

[Spartan Girl]

Honestly, Sheldon did the right thing by cutting everyone out of the deal after all tried to manipulate him for their own gain. For once he was a jerk for valid reasons.

It was satisfying to see Pastor Jeff and the Moral Majority get a dose of their own medicine at the end. Too bad Adult Sheldon had to end it before we got to see him beg Connie for mercy.

[Pepper the Cat]

I thought MeeMaw would set up a black market video renting in the back room for all the prohibited movies.

[chocolatine]

Now I really want to know why Richard Feynman had taken out a restraining order against Dr. Linkletter.

[ahpny]

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Sheldon invented this new innovative database thingie.

What exactly is the supposed invention here? Nothing here is patentable, and therefore there is nothing about which to fight. "Let's index stuff and put that on a computer" is not an invention, though the that index could be copyrightable - like the Yellow Pages phonebook. No one expects complete fidelity to all legal issues, patent-related or otherwise, but perhaps they could have put a bit more thought into this since it was the central plot device of season finale.

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Pepper the Cat said:

I thought MeeMaw would set up a black market video renting in the back room for all the prohibited movies.

I remember video stores that had semi-hush-hush back rooms for their porn collections.  I never had the nerve to go back there, LOL.  So yeah.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I'm surprised Sheldon is just accepting the terms of this contract...shouldn't he be all over the details? He loves contracts.

At first, yeah, but didn't he end up rejecting the contract and going on his own?

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

At first, yeah, but didn't he end up rejecting the contract and going on his own?

Yeah, but I think it was more because they were annoying him and getting in the way of his actually doing the thing than that he would be getting screwed on the financial side. I know he's all about the science but would he really be okay with someone else getting all the profit (assuming there is one) for his work?

[Bethany]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

I know he's all about the science but would he really be okay with someone else getting all the profit (assuming there is one) for his work?

I think they were pretty consistent on BBT that Sheldon doesn't care about money.  Which, of course, is easier to be like when you actually have money!  But it does seem that he's always been motivated by dreams of personal glory and by science itself rather than for profit.

One thing I liked about this episode was that they made it clear that Mary will always be there for Sheldon and that Mary is the only person he will actually ever really care about or listen to.  At least until Amy comes along.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Elizabeth Anne

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Yeah, but I think it was more because they were annoying him and getting in the way of his actually doing the thing than that he would be getting screwed on the financial side. I know he's all about the science but would he really be okay with someone else getting all the profit (assuming there is one) for his work?

Right, but my point is that in the end he wasn't just accepting the contract without looking it over.  He was aware that the terms of the contract let others profit from his invention, and I think that's the main reason he backed out of it.  Also because they were attempting to control him which he of course wouldn't like, but primarily because he didn't want anyone to profit from it.

[Yeah No]

24 minutes ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

I think they were pretty consistent on BBT that Sheldon doesn't care about money.  Which, of course, is easier to be like when you actually have money!  But it does seem that he's always been motivated by dreams of personal glory and by science itself rather than for profit.

I got the impression that it isn't just that Sheldon doesn't care about money, he doesn't want the others trying to profit from his invention to care about it either.  And that's what I think was the main reason he backed out of it, but also because they were trying to control him and "steal his thunder" of course.

[appositival]

10 hours ago, ahpny said:

"Let's index stuff and put that on a computer" is not an invention

Yes, and the stuff is freely available, so anyone could create their own data base and allow free access, which would sink the profit motive. This was all the rage in the eighties.

Much like Twitter's tweets and Mastodon's toots, you can create a workalike version without patent issues, as long as you aren't stealing the source code (which is a copyright issue anyway).

12 hours ago, Pepper the Cat said:

I thought MeeMaw would set up a black market video renting in the back room for all the prohibited movies.

Isn't the back room full of illegal gambling? I think that is the cash cow. MeeMaw just doesn't like being bullied.

And I loved Georgie not being happy with acting mature.

[theredhead77]

Sheldon doesn't care about money but my take-away from this is the origins of Sheldon not wanting to share credit.

Love MeeMaw and Mandy standing up to the hypocritical self-righteous bullying pastor Jeff and the church shrew bigrade. If you don't like the content of the movie don't rent (or watch) the movie. 

[shura]

15 minutes ago, appositival said:

Yes, and the stuff is freely available, so anyone could create their own data base and allow free access, which would sink the profit motive. This was all the rage in the eighties.

Exactly. Grant opportunities are public information because funding agencies want to attract multiple applications in order to pick the best ones. Good luck finding investors, Sheldon. Although, it probably wouldn’t require much of an expense to build and run this thing. Would he need to pay for more than a server? Meemaw could probably swing it. She could use it as an extra front for money laundering.

14 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

It was satisfying to see Pastor Jeff and the Moral Majority get a dose of their own medicine at the end. Too bad Adult Sheldon had to end it before we got to see him beg Connie for mercy.

I liked seeing them get a dose of the fire extinguisher foam in the middle, too. They might have actually been trespassing, setting up their table in front of her store like that.

Pastor Jeff is in an interesting position. On the one hand, his congregation might be unhappy with him if he lets Connie keep renting out “the whatnot”. On the other hand, if he doesn’t, she exposes his church elders (who, I assume, want her to keep running the video store as is, because that’s where they rent what they rent) and the congregation gets unhappy with them. His church is not looking good either way.

[shapeshifter]

12 hours ago, ahpny said:

What exactly is the supposed invention here? Nothing here is patentable, and therefore there is nothing about which to fight. "Let's index stuff and put that on a computer" is not an invention, though the that index could be copyrightable - like the Yellow Pages phonebook. No one expects complete fidelity to all legal issues, patent-related or otherwise, but perhaps they could have put a bit more thought into this since it was the central plot device of season finale.

Yes, perhaps this👆 is all supposed be obvious to most of the viewers and we are supposed to realize that none of the parties involved have a firm grasp of both parts at issue in the contract, i.e., the technology and the law?
I think this is supposed to be both a call back to all of the dot coms that burst onto the scene and quickly failed at the time of the show, and also, perhaps, similar to more current failures like crypto currency and NFTs, which greed combined with ignorance have boosted to popularity that is later followed by becoming the butt of late-night comedy jokes.

Meanwhile, will we ever get to see what happened when the comic book store owner opened his shop after the shenanigans of the previous episode?

[proserpina65]

I was amused by Pastor Jeff's video rental habits being righteously boring and his wife's not so much.

[HurricaneVal]

15 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I'm surprised Sheldon is just accepting the terms of this contract...shouldn't he be all over the details? He loves contracts.

This may have been what started all of that!

[Bethany]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I think this is supposed to be both a call back to all of the dot coms that burst onto the scene and quickly failed at the time of the show, and also, perhaps, similar to more current failures like crypto currency and NFTs, which greed combined with ignorance have boosted to popularity that is later followed by becoming the butt of late-night comedy jokes.

Thinking about it some more I wonder if this is also another example of the way Sheldon always seemed to back the wrong horse on BBT.  There are numerous times when we hear him saying things like "I assure you, you'll be sorry you wasted your money on an iPod when Microsoft comes out with theirs."  

[ahpny]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

we are supposed to realize that none of the parties involved have a firm grasp of both parts at issue in the contract, i.e., the technology and the law?

With respect to the law, there's nothing that would compel Sheldon to "share" anything with the university. He's not a university employee, so whether or not the university has rules about employees inventing stuff on the job - as many do - how would those apply to Sheldon exactly? No law of which I'm aware requires a student to share an invention with a school conceived of while attending that school.

With respect to the technology, there's no there there either. While sorting algorithms can indeed be quite complex and conceivably play some role in acquiring a patent, none of that has been shown or even hinted at here. Why seemingly bright people - like the university president and professor - would be immediately wowed by Sheldon's non-invention is simply not credible, in addition to being insulting to the audience. Who do the writers think watches this show? Some of us have advanced STEM degrees and know stuff too.

Edited December 9, 2022 by ahpny

[Sarah 103]

14 hours ago, ahpny said:

What exactly is the supposed invention here? Nothing here is patentable, and therefore there is nothing about which to fight. "Let's index stuff and put that on a computer" is not an invention, though the that index could be copyrightable - like the Yellow Pages phonebook. No one expects complete fidelity to all legal issues, patent-related or otherwise, but perhaps they could have put a bit more thought into this since it was the central plot device of season finale.

I don't remember variations of the words "patent" or "copyright" actually being used in the episode. It was always a variation of "Sheldon's come up with an idea that could be worth something and profitable." 

5 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Yeah, but I think it was more because they were annoying him and getting in the way of his actually doing the thing than that he would be getting screwed on the financial side. I know he's all about the science but would he really be okay with someone else getting all the profit (assuming there is one) for his work?

Sheldon doesn't care about profit. He cares about the credit. His problem was that the lawyers and the university were preventing him from doing what he wanted. 

3 hours ago, appositival said:

And I loved Georgie not being happy with acting mature.

If Georgie is the mature, responsible one, you know this is a seriously messed up situation. I did love that Georgie was about five minutes away from trying to convince Mee-Maw and Mandy to turn it into a Christian video store because they would be able to make money from it. 

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, perhaps this👆 is all supposed be obvious to most of the viewers and we are supposed to realize that none of the parties involved have a firm grasp of both parts at issue in the contract, i.e., the technology and the law?
I think this is supposed to be both a call back to all of the dot coms that burst onto the scene and quickly failed at the time of the show, and also, perhaps, similar to more current failures like crypto currency and NFTs, which greed combined with ignorance have boosted to popularity that is later followed by becoming the butt of late-night comedy jokes.

I think we're still a few years away (probably around five years) from the dot com boom and bust of the 1990s.  

[Twilight Man]

15 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Now I really want to know why Richard Feynman had taken out a restraining order against Dr. Linkletter.

and another piece of the puzzle is uncovered  --- Adult Sheldon and his many, many, many restraining orders.

"restraining orders ---- great way to get autographs."

Edited December 9, 2022 by Twilight Man

[ahpny]

38 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

"Sheldon's come up with an idea that could be worth something and profitable." 

Without a patent, Sheldon's "idea" would be essentially worthless because anyone could copy it. There would be nothing to divide or contract about.

[Chit Chat]

The best part of the episode was the exchange between Mandy, Georgie and the unhappy customer:  

Customer:  There was a woman who showed her hoo-ha!  Georgie: Yeah, she does!  Mandy:  The most you see is a hoo.   Georgie:  If you see the hoo, the ha's right there!!  I'm still cracking up over that scene.  I wonder how many takes that required.

I am so happy that the show has gotten away from the angst between George Sr. and Mary.  I don't even care if they don't follow what was established on TBBT.  I'm just thrilled to have a comedy again!  

[chocolatine]

6 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

One thing I liked about this episode was that they made it clear that Mary will always be there for Sheldon and that Mary is the only person he will actually ever really care about or listen to.  At least until Amy comes along.

He also cared about and listened to Penny.

[Bethany]

9 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

He also cared about and listened to Penny.

True,  I loved their relationship.  My favourite part of BBT.  In some ways we saw this relationship playing out between young Sheldon and Missy but they seem to be moving Sheldon away from the family now.  Which makes sense if they are going to stick to the back story for the Coopers.  But it's a bit sad to see.  Even in this episode Sheldon made some reference to Missy being mean to him (it was quick and I may not be remembering it well) come to think of it did we see much of Missy in this episode?

[HurricaneVal]

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

If Georgie is the mature, responsible one, you know this is a seriously messed up situation.

Mandy wasn't really exhibiting a whole lot of maturity there.  Neither was Mee-Maw, but Mee-Maw has always been presented as a bit eccentric and outspoken and petty.  Mandy, however, is supposed to be the mature young woman who ended up pregnant from a too-young boyfriend.  The Mandy we saw in this episode was less emotionally mature than her too-young boyfriend.  Prior to this episode, I just really couldn't see how a college-graduate, former TV weathercaster, supposedly functioning adult would give Georgie a second look after establishing "Wow, he's a handsome young man!" 

I believe we're learning that no, Mandy was not really a fully functional adult.  She lost her job and apartment after all, and was unable to get another job "in the city" and had to come home and lick her wounds.  Except she didn't really do that either, she didn't go back to Mom and Dad (and after we've met them, I don't blame her) she just came back to her home town, got a waitressing job, and a cheap apartment and settled in. 

So now Mandy being with Georgie makes a lot more sense to me.  I'm now starting to question if Georgie is making the right choice.  Mandy is devolving in front of our eyes.

[chocolatine]

37 minutes ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

come to think of it did we see much of Missy in this episode?

Just that one scene at the dinner table. It's a shame that there are so many non-Sheldon storylines (Mandy's pregnancy, George and Mary's marital and financial problems, etc.) that don't leave much room for Missy.

[bad things are bad]

I'm all for less Sheldon. IMO he's the least interesting character 

[MollyMelrose]

Mandy seems to be turning into Meemaw, Jr.

This is not a compliment.

Surprised that Sanctimonious Church Lady turned out to be a member of Pastor Jeff's flock and didn't seem to realize who Georgie and Mandy were, seeing how much tongue-wagging and moral outrage their relationship has stirred up within the congregation.

HATE the path they are taking with Pastor Jeff. Until the season, he has been a basically well-intentioned, kind-hearted, naive fellow with a large dose of doofus thrown in. This season, he's become a full-on Pharisee.

[highway61]

28 minutes ago, MollyMelrose said:

HATE the path they are taking with Pastor Jeff. Until the season, he has been a basically well-intentioned, kind-hearted, naive fellow with a large dose of doofus thrown in. This season, he's become a full-on Pharisee.

I came here to say exactly this. He's goofy but he always really believed that love-thy-neighbor stuff and tried to be open to whatever came his way. 

And let's not forget - HE SLEPT ON THE COOPER'S COUCH DURING HIS DIVORCE! That would count for alot for any previous version of Pastor Jeff. Now he's a bad stereotype.

I did like adult Georgie, though.

Edited December 9, 2022 by highway61
typo

[Bethany]

9 minutes ago, highway61 said:

I did like adult Georgie, though.

It was easy to see the beginning of Georgie the successful businessman.  He was the only one remembering that the video store was never meant to be a money maker (I'm sure bonus if it was of course) the whole point of it was it was hiding the illegal casino.  

I mean I do get why Mee Maw and Mandy were angry - totally agree with them in this - but they weren't really in business to provide videos (or laundry services either for that matter),  They lost sight of that.

[theredhead77]

I forgot to mention I loved that MeeMaw reminded Georgie about what Pastor Jeff and the church did to his family. He fucked around, MeeMaw is trying to make sure he finds out.

[Tattooeddancer]

I've been steadily losing interest the last few episodes, but as a Christian I needed to come in and say that Pastor Jeff's smug "God created clothes" statement just shows he needs to read his Bible a little more closely. That's not how the first appearance of clothing went down at all.

[Sarah 103]

On 12/9/2022 at 2:44 PM, ahpny said:

Without a patent, Sheldon's "idea" would be essentially worthless because anyone could copy it. There would be nothing to divide or contract about.

My comment was part of an earlier discuss about whether the proper term was patent or copyright, and that I wasn't sure that either term was actually used in the episode. My point was that the characters acknowledged there was a need for Sheldon's intellectual property to be protected so that the university and Sheldon could make money. 

[ahpny]

7 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

My comment was part of an earlier discuss about whether the proper term was patent or copyright

The most pertinent term would be patent, though the episode expressly mentioned neither patents nor copyrights. There was literally nothing written down or recorded so copyrights could not be applicable (copyrights generally pertain to writings, like a book or something recorded in a tangible form, like a movie). The only other forms of intellectual property are trademarks and trade secrets. Neither of those seem pertinent here. Many "ideas" are simply not patentable, and there are many requirements to get a patent. Sheldon has met essentially none of them as presented by this episode, though ostensibly intelligent characters reacted as though Sheldon came up with a cure for cancer or something. That was my complaint.

[Chit Chat]

On 12/9/2022 at 5:14 PM, MollyMelrose said:

HATE the path they are taking with Pastor Jeff. Until the season, he has been a basically well-intentioned, kind-hearted, naive fellow with a large dose of doofus thrown in. This season, he's become a full-on Pharisee.

Yeah, the TV industry tends to paint most pastors in an unfavorable light (most of the time unfairly so.)   I'm guessing Mary will find her way back to the church if George's storyline plays out per TBBT.  Maybe they'll rally around her, and she'll feel strong in her faith once again. 

[Driad]

Compilers of gazetteers, directories, etc. sometimes include fake items, so that if someone copies the text and includes any of the fake items, the original compiler can prove that the other copied their text.  Might Sheldon consider including a few fake grants in his directory for this reason, or would he be shocked and horrified at the idea?

[Welshman in Ca]

17 hours ago, ChitChat said:

Yeah, the TV industry tends to paint most pastors in an unfavorable light (most of the time unfairly so.)   I'm guessing Mary will find her way back to the church if George's storyline plays out per TBBT.  Maybe they'll rally around her, and she'll feel strong in her faith once again. 

At least he's not running around in $1,000 tennis shoes and wearing $5,000 suits while dripping in gold.............yet. He's generally okay even if he is a little hypocritical at times but that would account for most I guess as that is exactly what most are like that I've ever met so they're not a million miles away.

[shapeshifter]

Pastor Jeff seems pressured to follow his flock’s ideas of moral outrage rather than anything he learned at seminary because the flock could vote him out, leaving him an unemployed father and husband.

However, they reminded us in this episode that he has an employed wife, so maybe Pastor Jeff will reach a point where he sees, for example, that Meemaw and Georgie supporting pregnant Mandy are being more christ-like than his parishioners, and then Pastor Jeff will “rebuke” them from his literal pulpit. 
If so, on this show, I would expect him to get fired.

[Driad]

19 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

the flock could vote him out

Doesn't that depend on the denomination and how it is organized?  I don't know what the church in this show is supposed to be.  AIUI, in some denominations the members interview prospective pastors and choose one, but in others the higher-ups assign pastors and the flock does not get a choice.

[MaryMitch]

It's a Baptist church. Or at least, Mary has said on several occasions that they are Baptists.

[Driad]

But does that mean the congregation could voter Pastor Jeff out, or not? 

[Chit Chat]

6 hours ago, Welshman in Ca said:

He's generally okay even if he is a little hypocritical at times but that would account for most I guess as that is exactly what most are like that I've ever met so they're not a million miles away.

I certainly appreciate everyone's experiences regarding this, but for me, pastors like Jeff were not my experience at all.  I was fortunate enough to be part of a church that had two very well-respected pastors over the course of the years I was growing up and attending that particular church.  What they depict on this show was a million miles away from what I experienced!!  As usual, YMMV. 

[shapeshifter]

I've known at least a couple of pastors and rabbis who were worthy of the respect they received, but "respect" is not a trait anyone would ever associate with the character of Pastor Jeff.
Initially the youth pastor seemed admirable, but then his behavior became a bit suspect.

[proserpina65]

16 hours ago, ChitChat said:

I certainly appreciate everyone's experiences regarding this, but for me, pastors like Jeff were not my experience at all.  I was fortunate enough to be part of a church that had two very well-respected pastors over the course of the years I was growing up and attending that particular church.  What they depict on this show was a million miles away from what I experienced!!  As usual, YMMV. 

Honestly, the Baptist pastors I'm familiar with, including the two who conducted my cousin's memorial service in October, are far worse than Pastor Jeff.  One of many reasons I'm not a Baptist.

[Bethany]

16 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

but "respect" is not a trait anyone would ever associate with the character of Pastor Jeff.

True.  Right from the get go he was presented as being a pretty shaky character.  Lying in pursuit of his 'hot' wife being the first example that comes to mind.  I did like the way he seemed open to having Sheldon ask questions in church - it seemed unlikely to me but I put that down to my Catholic upbringing where that simply never would have happened - anyway I gave him kudos for that.  But in a lot of other ways I do think they never made Pastor Jeff much of a true spiritual leader worthy of respect.

[Chit Chat]

I didn't see him as shady, but as dopey.  Again, a characteristic I never saw from any pastor I sat and listened to!  

[Mellowyellow]

Loved this episode so so so much! 

Adored how Georgie was so smooth and pragmatic, always remembering what business they were truly running. It really explains why his business is so successful later on in life.

I cheered when Connie made Pastor Jeff cry at the end. Sniveling little man! Cheered at the fire extinguisher too!

And I totally went "awwww" when Sheldon dismissed everyone but said he cared about Mary.