Three Pines - General Discussion

[OtterMommy]

5 minutes ago, Tyro49 said:

Wow, I didn't see that ending coming! (We know he won't die, as there is so much more to go!)

I've been thinking about why they didn't start with the first book, and I think I know why. Still Life was made into a movie (with a completely different cast) just a few years ago, and I think they didn't want to start the new series by going over ground so recently covered. I think maybe many of those on this forum have seen the film. (For those who haven't, Still Life: A Three Pines Mystery, is also on Amazon Prime.) I feel sure they will rework the story somewhat and cover it in an upcoming season.  (Because this is the book where Gamache first meets the people of Three Pines, and in this series that is no longer the case.)

My guess is that the production company who did the Still Life movie may have some claim to that material in their contract.  If that is the case, we probably won't see the bones of that story re-worked, depending on the terms of the contract.  It's kind of a shame, because I quite liked that book.  However, it may also be that the boat has now passed for including it in Three Pines.

For those who haven't seen the Still Life movie it is available on either Acorn or Britbox (I have both and forget what shows are on which platform).  It's okay.  In many ways, it is very faithful to the book.  The plot is pretty much identical, but also the casting is a bit closer to the way the characters are described in the books.  Jean-Guy and Isabelle match their literary descriptions, as do Gabri and Olivier (who were switched in Three PInes, for reasons I don't understand....).  The actor playing Armand is too young and the actresses playing Myrna and Clara are too put-together (Myrna dresses like a business woman and, if I remember correctly, doesn't say more than 5 words in the whole movie.  Clara is sort of fashionable, which is the opposite of her literary counterpart).  Ruth is, well, Ruth is not a made for TV movie kind of character.  They did what they could with her, but she's a shadow of who she should be.

However, I felt that the movie just didn't hit the right notes.  I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong until my husband walked in the room and asked why I was watching a Hallmark Movie.

[Anothermi]

I finally got around to finishing this Season. I do hope there is another! 

The best thing, for me, about this adaptation is that it appears to be keeping the essence of the characters and mix-&-matching the plots from a few books to present something that feels  both new-yet-familiar to me. 

I've read all the books—except the most recent one which I am on the very-long-library-waiting-list for. But this version challenges me with new twists or takes on old plot lines. Given that there are now 18 books to draw from... And that the many characters grow and develop throughout the span of these books... I believe there is enough material to cover a couple more seasons without veering too far from the path Louise Penny laid out for them. All that and still surprise book readers.

I've got my fingers crossed. I really love that the material has been updated to reflect current issues. 

I would also love to hear what non-book readers make of this adaptation. That's the only way I'm likely to know if it is successful. Currently I'm completely satisfied only because I can happily live with the changes. I am unable to judge it only on its merits as a show. 

[Zella]

6 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

My guess is that the production company who did the Still Life movie may have some claim to that material in their contract.  If that is the case, we probably won't see the bones of that story re-worked, depending on the terms of the contract.  It's kind of a shame, because I quite liked that book.  However, it may also be that the boat has now passed for including it in Three Pines.

For those who haven't seen the Still Life movie it is available on either Acorn or Britbox (I have both and forget what shows are on which platform).  It's okay.  In many ways, it is very faithful to the book.  The plot is pretty much identical, but also the casting is a bit closer to the way the characters are described in the books.  Jean-Guy and Isabelle match their literary descriptions, as do Gabri and Olivier (who were switched in Three PInes, for reasons I don't understand....).  The actor playing Armand is too young and the actresses playing Myrna and Clara are too put-together (Myrna dresses like a business woman and, if I remember correctly, doesn't say more than 5 words in the whole movie.  Clara is sort of fashionable, which is the opposite of her literary counterpart).  Ruth is, well, Ruth is not a made for TV movie kind of character.  They did what they could with her, but she's a shadow of who she should be.

However, I felt that the movie just didn't hit the right notes.  I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong until my husband walked in the room and asked why I was watching a Hallmark Movie.

 

7 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

Wow, I didn't see that ending coming! (We know he won't die, as there is so much more to go!)

I've been thinking about why they didn't start with the first book, and I think I know why. Still Life was made into a movie (with a completely different cast) just a few years ago, and I think they didn't want to start the new series by going over ground so recently covered. I think maybe many of those on this forum have seen the film. (For those who haven't, Still Life: A Three Pines Mystery, is also on Amazon Prime.) I feel sure they will rework the story somewhat and cover it in an upcoming season.  (Because this is the book where Gamache first meets the people of Three Pines, and in this series that is no longer the case.)

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/11/louise-penny-three-pines-show-gamache-interview 

Per this interview, Penny wasn't a fan of the first adaptation precisely because the vibe seemed off: "It wasn’t my favorite experience, to be honest, and not because of the actors or any one thing in particular, it just wasn’t, I felt, a true reflection of the spirit of the books."

I've assumed it was a rights issue with not adapting it, but I also wonder if she just didn't want to go down that road again and felt like it was easier to adapt the others and not get into the comparison game. 

[sugarbaker design]

On 12/30/2022 at 1:36 PM, OtterMommy said:

As do Gabri and Olivier (who were switched in Three PInes, for reasons I don't understand....).  

I'm still scratching my head over that one.

[lark37]

On 12/12/2022 at 7:15 PM, dleighg said:

my husband and I were watching football (american) yesterday and the ads for broadcast tv shows made us looking at each other like "what? seriously?"

I love the non-broadcast shows (prime, or those brit versions) that are so much slower paced and thoughtful

Yes, I agree.  I’ve been a fan of British TV for a long time.  They have shorter seasons—8 to 10 episodes, and the acting and writing are top notch.  I am not a fan of network (broadcast) TV, but I do make an exception and watch on my ROKU 2 network broadcast shows…Ghosts on CBS and Abbott Elementary on ABC.  Both of those sitcoms are excellent, and remind me of streaming type shows.  

The bear scene was ridiculous.  Do the show runners think we don’t know anything about bears?  Why on earth would they get out of the car?  Stay in the car with the windows up, and slowly start driving. Bears aren’t stupid, it would have run away. I get that Gamache and company were trying to apprehend the killer, but they should never have encouraged them to leave the car.  Once in Smokey Mtn National Park, we had a bear come after our car at a scenic view drive off spot.  It literally climbed (it was a young cub) up on top of our small sedan.  We kept our windows up and slowly backed out of the scenic view spot and it clambered off and ran away.  No way would I have gotten OUT of the car!  Gotta say, I find the books a little too long and boring.  I am liking the series better than the books.  

[NJRadioGuy]

On 1/3/2023 at 3:04 PM, lark37 said:

The bear scene was ridiculous.  Do the show runners think we don’t know anything about bears? 

Seconded, but to add insult to ursine injury, it was the wrong type of bear! You won't find grizzlies in Quebec or the northeastern US, just run-of-the-mill Chonky TrashBlimps™ (a.k.a. American Black Bears). Just honk the horn or turn on the siren and it would have bolted off, right quick fast and in a hurry.

But I guess there aren't many trained bears with SAG-AFTRA cards out there so they had to take what they could get. And while there are brown-furred black bears, this wasn't one of them; you can tell a grizz by the hump over their shoulders.

Edited January 4, 2023 by NJRadioGuy

[blackwing]

Just finished watching the season.  Overall, I liked it very much.  I suppose I can buy the explanation for Gamache's accentless English.  But I would think that he and Reine Marie should be speaking to each other in French.  They don't say more than a few words to each other in French.  It surely can't be for the viewers, because Olivier and Gabri talk to each other in French and we hear French with subtitles.  Pierre Arnot, his wife, and the Gamaches... all French-Canadian and yet they speak to each other in English?  

My complaint is that I do think that Three Pines itself isn't very fleshed out.  When I read the books, I feel like the village itself is almost like a character in itself.  I don't think enough time was spent getting to know the village and the residents.  The village on the show just doesn't seem to project the warmth and coziness that I always feel when I read about it.  The various buildings seem sterile and far apart, and I have no understanding where each is within the village.  Myrna's bookshop is supposed to be attached to the Bistro.  No idea where the Be Calm art gallery (which doubles as the space given to the Surete officers) is in the village.  The residential school (Hadley House in the books) does seem sufficiently on the outskirts of the village, but I would have liked to have seen where the residents live.

It's been ages since I read the early books so I didn't really remember the plots.  I did see that they changed the family in the family murder plot to be Peter's family... why.  I know it was to involve more of the residents in these two episodes, but why Peter?  Peter to me is the most unlikeable of the village residents in the books, I think I would have preferred if this was adapted so that it was Myrna's family.  I think Myrna in this series is the book character that got the shaft the most, she hardly got anything to do.

I did like the format, each story is covered by two episodes and then there's the overarching Blue Two Rivers mystery throughout the season.  

I like that Lacoste is more fleshed out in the series than in the books, but I really don't like what they've done with Jean-Guy.  Jean-Guy was a troubled soul who was mentored by Gamache.  I don't see the bond between the two of them here, Jean-Guy seems closer to Lacoste.  The bit with him pretending to still be married to Enid, and then finally admitting it to Yvette Nichol of all people, seems to be a dangling plot that didn't have much point.

On 12/13/2022 at 10:01 AM, Zella said:

As a reader of the books, I honestly find Ruth annoying in the books.

I think Ruth is annoying in the books but also can be endearing.  I like the relationship she has with Beauvoir, how she always calls him "asshole".  I get that this book series has lots of characters and it's difficult to give them all the time they deserve in the format of this TV series, but I think they should have done more with Ruth.  There was zero explanation for why she has a duck, and I wish more had been done with her poetry.

[OtterMommy]

10 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I did see that they changed the family in the family murder plot to be Peter's family... why. 

Do you mean the 5/6 episodes at the hotel?  That was Peter's family in the book.

[blackwing]

11 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Do you mean the 5/6 episodes at the hotel?  That was Peter's family in the book.

Huh, thanks for the correction, for some reason I have no recollection of that at all.  I'm going to have to go back and re-read some of these books.

[Ilovepie]

I have not read these books, but my husband and I really enjoyed this series! All of the characters were interesting and the stories were engaging. I did think the town seemed so "dead" every time they panned through it. Like, where were all the people? Sometimes it did feel like the only people who lived in Three Pines were the characters we saw.

I was most engaged in the story of the residential school and Blue. Absolutely gutting. I also watched Reservation Dogs this year, and I feel like it has been a big education for me on indigenous people. I am glad their stories are getting told.

[3 is enough]

On 12/27/2022 at 1:02 PM, NJRadioGuy said:

Question for Montrealers. It's been over 40 years since I lived there and I can't recognize the building used as the supposed headquarters of the SQ. The aerial shot of the Jacques Cartier Bridge looking downtown would make sense since the real-life SQ headquarters building is very close to that bridge. But the one used in the show is somewhere up near St. Joseph's Oratory near Côte-des-Neiges and Queen Mary, east of the Décarie Expressway. Note that in French, Queen Mary would be....Reine-Marie!

Speaking of place names, I can't believe the Penny (ahem) didn't drop with the series filming location that I posted the other day. The stories of Armand Gamache are filmed in Saint Armand!

I left 32 years ago, but I know the real SQ headquarters is, in fact, a modern looking building close to the Jacques Cartier Bridge.  I was also stumped trying to figure out what building was used.  It has to be on the other side of the mountain (not facing downtown).  Wonder if it is one of the Universite de Montreal buildings?  I never visited that campus so I am unfamiliar with the different buildings other than the tower which is visible from the Metropolitan Expressway.

[NJRadioGuy]

16 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

I left 32 years ago, but I know the real SQ headquarters is, in fact, a modern looking building close to the Jacques Cartier Bridge.  I was also stumped trying to figure out what building was used.  It has to be on the other side of the mountain (not facing downtown).  Wonder if it is one of the Universite de Montreal buildings?  I never visited that campus so I am unfamiliar with the different buildings other than the tower which is visible from the Metropolitan Expressway.

I left in 1979 and I was a West Island kid back then. It looks really close to St. Joseph, so I don't think it's quite as far as Outremont, but yes, it could be part of UdM. 

EDIT: Found it! 3101 Tour Rd., east of Descelles. The UdM Faculty of Law and Law Library.

Edited January 19, 2023 by NJRadioGuy
Gamache isn't the only detective :)

[snarktini]

On 1/17/2023 at 12:57 PM, blackwing said:

My complaint is that I do think that Three Pines itself isn't very fleshed out.  When I read the books, I feel like the village itself is almost like a character in itself.  I don't think enough time was spent getting to know the village and the residents.  The village on the show just doesn't seem to project the warmth and coziness that I always feel when I read about it

I've only read a couple of them so take my opinion for what it's worth, but this is where I don't connect with the show. It feels dark and somber and sad, lacking any warmth and coziness. The villagers are two dimensional. I'm finishing because I am a completionist with a lot of spare time, but I am not enjoying it.

[pasdetrois]

On 1/17/2023 at 3:57 PM, blackwing said:

I don't think enough time was spent getting to know the village and the residents.  The village on the show just doesn't seem to project the warmth and coziness that I always feel when I read about it

I feel the same way. We see a kind of sprawled out small town on the show, and I have always envisioned a small-ish village circle or square with the three pines surrounded by the bistro, book store, B&B, and some characters' homes. Everyone can pop back and forth throughout the day.

[3 is enough]

On 1/18/2023 at 6:27 PM, NJRadioGuy said:

EDIT: Found it! 3101 Tour Rd., east of Descelles. The UdM Faculty of Law and Law Library.

Edited Thursday at 10:01 AM by NJRadioGuy
Gamache isn't the only detective :)

I guessed correctly!  It is a U de M building!  Great detective work, @NJRadioGuy !

[pasdetrois]

I just realized that Rossi Sutherland (Jean Guy) is Donald Sutherland's son. He has lived in France.

[Lceleski]

On 12/2/2022 at 12:39 AM, OtterMommy said:

Watched both episodes back to back and I have to say it was pretty good.  I think it was the Variety article that said that the first 2 episodes were the weakest.  As I would probably give these two a B, I think the series will end up being an overall success.

Here's what I didn't like about it:

1 - You don't really get to know the town and the "regulars" in Three Pines in these episodes.  I kind of already knew this because Louise Penny said in an interview recently that she wished that the town was a bigger deal in the show, so I was prepared for this. 

2- Agent Nichol.  I mean, no one likes Agent Nichol.  But, in the book, you aren't supposed to like her.  She's supposed to be insufferable.  Here she is..comic relief?  I think this was a mistake.  In the book Nichol is a good conduit to see Gamache's goodness and patience.  In the show, she's just unnecessarily annoying (as opposed to necessarily annoying in the books).

3 - For some reason, there are no subtitles for the French in the 1st episode.  I remember enough French to know what people were saying and none of it was really important.  The weird thing is that there were subtitles in the 2nd episode, and the French dialogue still wasn't that important.  I'm not sure what happened there.

What I did like:

1 - Lacoste!  She is so much more involved than she is in the books and I love it.  I also love that they made her Native--it really helps with the larger overall plot.  Speaking of which...

2 - It's pretty clear that they are taking the corruption storyline that was sort of background in the books and putting it front and center here.  I know that sounds horrible.  But, they are focusing on the indigenous experience with it and it actually works here.  In fact, I think that storyline is more successful in the show, at least so far, than it ever was in the books.

3 - I think they did fairly well with the casting.  Molina is great, although I do think he should have either a French or a British accent (they do make a reference to him studying at Oxford).  Sutherland is not what I pictured as Jean-Guy, but he actually plays him very well.  And, as I said, I'm all about Lacoste in this.  As for the Three Pines folks, I can forgive Clara for being a bit too much together here (she's a literal mess in the books) because Peter is kind of hilariously Euro-trashy.  Myrna is also a bit toned down, or at least different, than she is in the book (not a caftan in sight), but Gabri, Olivier, and Ruth are all pretty much as they are in the books.  

4 - They toned down Crie.  In the book, Louise Penny goes over the top with this character to the point that it is offensive.  Here's she's just a typical teen.

After watching this, I'm not sure if they are incorporating Still Life into the series.  There are some changes in these episodes, that would make it hard to do Still Life without some rather large changes.  Also, the articles that I've read said they cover 4 books and The Hangman is included, which makes me think they did books 2-4 plus The Hangman.  Who knows, Jane Neal might show up and go for a walk in the woods next week.

I was totally planning to watch this tomorrow, so I'm quite grateful to whatever intern accidentally dropped this a day early!  (J/K...who knows why it came out early...)

The characters of Gabri and Olivier are switched from the book’s. Gabri is supposed to be heavyset and Olivier skinny. Wonder why they did that? I have read all 18 books in the series and love them.

[OtterMommy]

21 minutes ago, Lceleski said:

The characters of Gabri and Olivier are switched from the book’s. Gabri is supposed to be heavyset and Olivier skinny. Wonder why they did that? I have read all 18 books in the series and love them.

The only reason I can think of is that they had two actors that they wanted to cast.  One played Gabri perfectly, but was physically closer to Olivier and vice versa to the other one?

In the grand scheme of things, switching the two characters really doesn't change anything.  It doesn't require any major changes from the original source material.  All it does is serve as an annoyance for the viewers who have loved the books.

[Fretful]

On 1/17/2023 at 12:57 PM, blackwing said:

Just finished watching the season.  Overall, I liked it very much.  I suppose I can buy the explanation for Gamache's accentless English.  But I would think that he and Reine Marie should be speaking to each other in French.  They don't say more than a few words to each other in French.  It surely can't be for the viewers, because Olivier and Gabri talk to each other in French and we hear French with subtitles.  Pierre Arnot, his wife, and the Gamaches... all French-Canadian and yet they speak to each other in English?  

My guess is that Alfred Molina doesn't speak French.

 

I wish they had wrapped up the last storyline a bit better.  We know who killed Arthur Ellis and why, but none of the specifics.  No explanation about the note, or the 3 days of clothes, or why left hanging (and the coincidence of the Hangman).  Oh well, I guess police work is like that sometimes. 

[monakane]

On 1/18/2023 at 1:31 PM, Ilovepie said:

I was most engaged in the story of the residential school and Blue. Absolutely gutting. I also watched Reservation Dogs this year, and I feel like it has been a big education for me on indigenous people. I am glad their stories are getting told

You should check out Dark Winds on AMC.  It was excellent.

[Ilovepie]

43 minutes ago, monakane said:

You should check out Dark Winds on AMC.  It was excellent.

It's on my list - especially since it stars Big from Res Dogs! I just don't have an AMC streaming subscription so I'm not sure I can access it.

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

It's on my list - especially since it stars Big from Res Dogs! I just don't have an AMC streaming subscription so I'm not sure I can access it.

If you can watch DVDs, the first season was released on DVD, and you can probably check it out from a local library. The library I work at has it, and I've had my eye on it for a while because it's gotten such good reviews. And I really enjoy the book series it's based on as well. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Zella

[sugarbaker design]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

And I really enjoy the book series it's based on as well. 

Hillerman's series is way better than the show!

[Zella]

4 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Hillerman's series is way better than the show!

Thanks! That's good to know. I also really enjoyed the PBS Mystery adaptations back in the day with Wes Studi and Adam Beach, but I feel like I might have been the only person watching them 20 years ago. Nobody else ever has the slightest idea what I'm talking about when I mention them. 😂

[Cetacean]

12 minutes ago, Zella said:

I also really enjoyed the PBS Mystery adaptations back in the day with Wes Studi and Adam Beach, but I feel like I might have been the only person watching them 20 years ago.

I watched them all.  I also watched the Robert Redford version with a very young Lou Diamond Phillips as Jim Chee.

Eagerly awaiting the second round of Three Pines.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

I watched them all.  I also watched the Robert Redford version with a very young Lou Diamond Phillips as Jim Chee.

Eagerly awaiting the second round of Three Pines.

I'm glad it wasn't just me! 

[Rickster]

On 2/12/2023 at 10:26 AM, Fretful said:

My guess is that Alfred Molina doesn't speak French.

 

While this is most likely the case, I also think they were trying to give us some flavor of a Quebecois culture while making the show accessible to audiences who did not want to spend the whole show reading subtitles.

I just borrowed one of the books from the library and am finding it a lot more enjoyable than the show.

[Cetacean]

3 hours ago, Rickster said:

I just borrowed one of the books from the library and am finding it a lot more enjoyable than the show.

The books are incredible and incredibly complex.  I honestly (as is often the case) do not compare the books to any film version.  I look on them as two equally enjoyable but completely separate things.

I hope you enjoy the series, Louise Penny is a genius writer.  So many twists and turns in her stories.

[sugarbaker design]

14 hours ago, Rickster said:

I just borrowed one of the books from the library and am finding it a lot more enjoyable than the show.

They're much more enjoyable than the show.  The books paint a picture of cozy village life that the show totally ignores.  Whether or not that is intentional, I do not know.

11 hours ago, Cetacean said:

The books are incredible and incredibly complex.  I honestly (as is often the case) do not compare the books to any film version.  I look on them as two equally enjoyable but completely separate things.

I wouldn't go as far to say they're equally enjoyable, but they are certainly two completely separate things.

[Zella]

Over the past few months, I've read the first 9 books. Just started book 10. I was waiting to get comfortably into the book series before starting the show but followed the discussion here as a placeholder. 

Last night, I watched the first 2 episodes. In general, I really enjoyed what I've seen from the show and am looking forward to watching more. I think it works as both a standalone production and as an adaptation, though I also am watching it by myself so don't have anyone else to compare notes with. 

I thought Molina was fantastic as Gamache. Never anyone I personally would have cast in my mind's eye, but he's got the right mix of humanity and kindness with authority. In screenshots of the cast, I had been stymied by how much older Jean-Guy looked than I'd imagined, but I thought the actor captured his snarky gruffness well without going overboard with it. I liked the casting in general. I actually liked TV Ruth a lot better than Book Ruth, whom I find overbearing as hell. The only one that really threw me off is Clara Morrow is so much younger than her character in the book. I don't think adaptations are beholden to capturing every detail of the book, but I do think her being a middle-aged woman who's never found success in the art world despite being a hidden talent lands very differently than her being a young woman in the same boat. 

The police corruption storyline in the books is my least favorite aspect of the series, but so far, I like how they're framing it. I also ended up liking the decision to go with adapting the second book first.

The show does lose a lot of the books' village cozy atmosphere, but I honestly don't even know how you'd incorporate that in a TV show. I always love reading the descriptions of the food they're eating, but I am also not sure how you'd add that as frequently without it seeming forced in a show. Ditto for some of the changes in character personalities, like Nichols (whom I find equal parts fascinating and horrific in the books). So much of that is in internal monologue in the books that I don't think that would translate easily or well to losing that mode of capturing the characters' private thoughts and feelings.  

As someone who's lived in a small town most of her life and actually does enjoy it for the most part, I thought there was a lot of truth to the observation in the show that it can be very welcoming if you fit in but not so much if you don't, and I thought the first 2 episodes did a great job of showing that. All the ways that you can be told that you're not welcome and don't belong without anyone ever saying that directly to your face. And it's not even that I blame the villagers--CC was awful, and I wouldn't want to deal with her either. But I doubt she'd describe the village as cozy, and she wouldn't be wrong from her perspective, anymore than the villagers aren't wrong for not wanting to play nice with her after she was such a bitch. 

So, I found it amusing they were reading Frankenstein for the town book club, and Gamache picked up on all the villagers celebrating the death of the monster fit in so well with what he seemed to be seeing and thinking as he investigated. Good thing they weren't reading Murder on the Orient Express. Might have looked even fishier for the town. 😂

On a side note, I don't think I've seen anyone comment on this. But I loved the soundtrack of the show. It's so wonderfully atmospheric, and I've been listening to it on repeat since last night. 

In any event, I enjoyed the first 2 episodes more than I thought I would and I'm looking forward to hopefully watching 3 and 4 tonight. 

[Eureka]

5 hours ago, Zella said:

Over the past few months, I've read the first 9 books. Just started book 10. I was waiting to get comfortably into the book series before starting the show but followed the discussion here as a placeholder. 

Last night, I watched the first 2 episodes. In general, I really enjoyed what I've seen from the show and am looking forward to watching more. I think it works as both a standalone production and as an adaptation, though I also am watching it by myself so don't have anyone else to compare notes with. 

I thought Molina was fantastic as Gamache. Never anyone I personally would have cast in my mind's eye, but he's got the right mix of humanity and kindness with authority. In screenshots of the cast, I had been stymied by how much older Jean-Guy looked than I'd imagined, but I thought the actor captured his snarky gruffness well without going overboard with it. I liked the casting in general. I actually liked TV Ruth a lot better than Book Ruth, whom I find overbearing as hell. The only one that really threw me off is Clara Morrow is so much younger than her character in the book. I don't think adaptations are beholden to capturing every detail of the book, but I do think her being a middle-aged woman who's never found success in the art world despite being a hidden talent lands very differently than her being a young woman in the same boat. 

The police corruption storyline in the books is my least favorite aspect of the series, but so far, I like how they're framing it. I also ended up liking the decision to go with adapting the second book first.

The show does lose a lot of the books' village cozy atmosphere, but I honestly don't even know how you'd incorporate that in a TV show. I always love reading the descriptions of the food they're eating, but I am also not sure how you'd add that as frequently without it seeming forced in a show. Ditto for some of the changes in character personalities, like Nichols (whom I find equal parts fascinating and horrific in the books). So much of that is in internal monologue in the books that I don't think that would translate easily or well to losing that mode of capturing the characters' private thoughts and feelings.  

As someone who's lived in a small town most of her life and actually does enjoy it for the most part, I thought there was a lot of truth to the observation in the show that it can be very welcoming if you fit in but not so much if you don't, and I thought the first 2 episodes did a great job of showing that. All the ways that you can be told that you're not welcome and don't belong without anyone ever saying that directly to your face. And it's not even that I blame the villagers--CC was awful, and I wouldn't want to deal with her either. But I doubt she'd describe the village as cozy, and she wouldn't be wrong from her perspective, anymore than the villagers aren't wrong for not wanting to play nice with her after she was such a bitch. 

So, I found it amusing they were reading Frankenstein for the town book club, and Gamache picked up on all the villagers celebrating the death of the monster fit in so well with what he seemed to be seeing and thinking as he investigated. Good thing they weren't reading Murder on the Orient Express. Might have looked even fishier for the town. 😂

On a side note, I don't think I've seen anyone comment on this. But I loved the soundtrack of the show. It's so wonderfully atmospheric, and I've been listening to it on repeat since last night. 

In any event, I enjoyed the first 2 episodes more than I thought I would and I'm looking forward to hopefully watching 3 and 4 tonight. 

I liked the music too.

[Zella]

On 1/17/2023 at 2:57 PM, blackwing said:

I did see that they changed the family in the family murder plot to be Peter's family... why.  I know it was to involve more of the residents in these two episodes, but why Peter? 

I just watched this one, and I think the change you're picking up on is, in the books, Peter's family is not the one that owns the hotel. But they are present as guests, the victim is in their family, and they are the focus of the investigation in the book, just as they are in the show. 

Using that as a jumping-off point, as I was chatting about the tenth book with @sugarbaker design in the Books forum, I've watched 6 of the episodes now and will probably finish the series tonight. I am still enjoying it, though I think the first 2 episodes remain my favorite.

But I think the Morrows in general are the weak link of the show, at least to me. Beyond what I already posted about Clara's age, I find TV Peter so drippy and boring. And I hate his hair. LOLOL I don't actually like Book Peter, but I find him an interesting character, and I find the course of their marriage fascinating. The slow unraveling of it feels quite real, but in the show, they never seem particularly happy or well-suited to each other, so I don't really feel any emotional response to any of their struggles as a couple. The hotel book is one of my favorites--I tend to really enjoy the books that leave the village and show us more of Quebec--but I think those episodes didn't land the same for me because I have no investment in TV Peter and Clara as a couple. 

I felt the same about the awkward dinner scene in the previous mystery. I think it was in episode 3. But it was during the episodes where Gamache was investigating the death in the former residential school and is invited to the Morrow house. I tend to be a fan of awkward dinner scenes, and that one was so deliciously uncomfortable. I enjoyed watching it as a scene of TV, but it didn't really make the villagers or the Morrows in particular seem like fun people to hang out with or someone Gamache would go out of his way to want to know more of.  

I am pleasantly surprised by how much I like TV Jean-Guy, though. I don't really like his character in the books. I honestly find him to be a toxic, unprofessional asshole, more often than not (though an occasionally funny one). So, I appreciate the toned-down version in the show. Also, Rossif Sutherland's face when he finds something stupid or weird or both amuses me to no end. The look on his face when one of Peter's sisters puts an apple on his notes absolutely killed me. 😂

 

[Zella]

On 2/12/2023 at 9:26 AM, Fretful said:

My guess is that Alfred Molina doesn't speak French.

I finished the show last night, and I suspect that this is a big part of it. I don't think the show would ever be mostly in French (though I don't mind subtitles and would still have watched myself if that were the case), but Gamache only speaks a handful of very simple French sentences, even when other people are speaking in French to him.

I make no claims to being especially knowledgeable of French--most of what I know comes from a reading class I took for grad school that involved not learning pronunciation, and yes, that's not a super great way to learn French--but even with my own limited reference point, I noticed how basic the handful of lines he was given were and how much they repeated each other (it's often a variation of telling his wife he loves her). 

It reminded me a little of those scenes in The Americans when Keri Russell's character (a native Russian speaker played by an American actress who's clearly not familiar with the language) would be talking to another Soviet character, who would inevitably be played by an actor who was a native Russian speaker. The other character would effortlessly rattle off lines in fluent Russian and she'd respond with a very careful one-word "Da." LOLOL 

I don't think it's a coincidence that the characters who are shown speaking the most French and seem the most comfortable doing it (Reine-Marie, Gabri, Olivier, Jean-Guy, and Nichols) are played by either Francophone Canadians (Reine-Marie, Gabri, Olivier) or actors with more than a passing acquaintance with French (Jean-Guy's actor lived for 12 years in France as a child and has a Francophone Canadian mom and Nichols's actress was raised in Quebec in the Eastern Townships around "Frenglish" per this article--she says she's basically channeling the way her mom talks for the show). 

All things considered, though, I'd rather see Gamache speak limited French versus him speaking larger amounts of atrocious French. 

As for my take on the season now that I've finished it, I enjoyed it. I agree with the criticism that the village in the show seems more impersonal and much less cozy than the books, though as I said earlier, I am not entirely sure how that could have been incorporated better. But I liked the cast for the most part, and I thought the police corruption storyline was much better integrated and a lot more interesting in the show.

I really liked the last 2 episodes, but I found the final minutes to be a bit rushed and overly chaotic. Not really a fan of the cliffhanger, which felt forced. The more I've watched of the show, the more deeply unimpressed I've been with the actors playing the Morrows. I find them the weakest links in the cast. They're not awful, per se, but I find them both just kind of there and without much real screen presence, so it's a shame that they get the most attention out of the Three Pines residents. I don't even think I'd like them better if I hadn't read the books. I just find them pretty uninteresting both writing and acting wise compared to the rest of the villagers or the law enforcement characters.

Still, I hope there's a season 2, and if so, I am curious to see which books they adapt and the order they do them in. 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Zella

[OtterMommy]

Bad news: Louise Penny has posted that Amazon has chosen not to continue with this series.

[dleighg]

I have to say that, while I devour her books, my husband and I haven't felt a burning desire to finish the last few episodes. It seemed kind of slow, in a boring way, not intense and building way.

[Zella]

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

Bad news: Louise Penny has posted that Amazon has chosen not to continue with this series.

On one hand, I'm surprised at the decision since the show was #1 for them in multiple markets. On the other hand, the fact they didn't immediately renew when it reached those numbers had me wondering if they were not renewing. Seems like they may have already made up their mind, regardless of how well it did. Wondering if they didn't particularly care for projected season 2 plans, but who knows how far along the showrunners were in planning that. I noticed she's encouraging people to write to Amazon. It will be interesting to see if the show moves to another platform eventually. I'd be surprised if Amazon picks it up again after canceling. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Zella

[OtterMommy]

I've been thinking about this, and here is what I think happened:

First, I think that Amazon made a few miscalculations.  One of the benefits of adapting an established property is that you are guaranteed an audience.  Louise Penny has a strong following, and they were counting on her audience to become their audience.  Because of that, Amazon didn't put the energy into promoting this show as they probably needed to.  Thus, while it got good ratings, it didn't exceed the ratings they felt were the baseline.

The other issue I read articles from a few sources was that Amazon received a fair amount of backlash from LP for the series departing from the books.  I don't know what that backlash entailed--did people actually contact Amazon to complain, or was it just online?  I don't know.  Personally, I think this complaint is rather silly.  It's one thing to say that you don't like the changes--that's fair.  However, to say that you don't like the show because it wasn't exactly like the book series is not.  All adaptations make changes.  I can't think of a single book-to-series or book-to-movie that didn't make changes.

This is not to say that I don't think the production bears some responsibility.  The writers, or whoever made the decisions, made a gamble that they could move away from the town of Three Pines and focus primarily on Gamache, and that gamble did not pay off.  I know from posts Louise Penny made that she fought against this move away from the town.  Perhaps they should have listened to the one who created it all.

All this being said, I am said they decided not to give it a 2nd season.  I think that the writers probably could have righted the show and made it into something really special. 

[Zella]

43 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

This is not to say that I don't think the production bears some responsibility.  The writers, or whoever made the decisions, made a gamble that they could move away from the town of Three Pines and focus primarily on Gamache, and that gamble did not pay off.  I know from posts Louise Penny made that she fought against this move away from the town.  Perhaps they should have listened to the one who created it all.

Yeah I rewatched the series as soon as I finished it, and on a rewatch, it was easier for me to view it in its own right as a show rather than as an adaptation of books. And I still liked it, but it's definitely not perfect. 

I'm not quite as enchanted with the town as many other readers are (sometimes I adore the coziness of it and sometimes I find it rather preposterous).

But I think the show's greatest strength as a show was also its greatest weakness in audience appeal because it makes for some very jarring tonal shifts and makes the show seem unfocused.

I think it works better when it is focusing on the investigators, and I really do like what they did when they refashioned the corruption storyline. It's the one part of the show where I liked what they kept from the originals and how they changed the material for television. Also, I liked all the actors who played cops, even when my first reaction to them was things like "You're too friendly to be Nichols" and "You're too salt and pepper to be Jean-Guy." By the end, I actually thought Nichols and Jean-Guy were highlights of the show. I could have watched a whole spinoff devoted to her goofy misplaced earnestness and his grumpy, weary exasperation with her. LOL 

The problem, though, is the show is named Three Pines, not Inspector Gamache and Company, so it positions itself as being about the town while paying little comparative attention to it. So, it's a weird juxtaposition of a very compelling but quite intense, grim storyline about missing women that seems like it's from an HBO originals series with quirky murders that seem more at home in an Agatha Christie story. (I say this as someone who likes both HBO originals and Agatha Christie.) Tonally, that's all over the place, and it's never combined in a cohesive fashion. And because the townspeople aren't fleshed out it, if you're not a reader, you're probably wondering why on earth we're spending so much time with these people rather than looking for Blue Two-Rivers, and if you are a reader, you're probably disappointed at how little time we're spending with them. 

Ultimately, in the books, I get why Armand finds Three Pines so appealing, even if I myself have more mixed feelings about it. There is something that is largely cozy and inviting about even just the aesthetics of it that is a nice respite from the darker themes of the books. And it's always clear in the books that the town itself is a character. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, even the opening chapter/chapters of the first book are all from the POV of townspeople, so calling it Three Pines makes a lot of sense when that's a key perspective and Gamache is not even introduced first. 

In the show, however, the town itself and the villagers are honestly creepy and are largely depicted as recurring suspects in murders, so it seems weird when Gamache says things like it's a nice town full of good people. Based on what Armand? All the times they've withheld information from you during an investigation or the awkward exchanges you've had with them at the bistro or in their homes?

When we do spend any time with them, it's very tense and full of angst and suspicion. Nobody gets along or seems to be having fun with each other, so they don't seem like people you'd go out of your way to spend time with any more than necessary. The show is also clearly from the investigators' POV (and especially Gamache's), so without those scenes fleshing out the town, we don't have any other basis for evaluating those characters or getting to know them better. And after rewatching, I am even further convinced that Clara and Peter were badly miscast and were a detriment since they were the main focus when we did see the town. 

They may have gotten more mileage out of more episodes to flesh out the stories or even just adapting fewer books for the first season. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Zella

[sugarbaker design]

3 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Personally, I think this complaint is rather silly.  It's one thing to say that you don't like the changes--that's fair.  However, to say that you don't like the show because it wasn't exactly like the book series is not.  All adaptations make changes.  I can't think of a single book-to-series or book-to-movie that didn't make changes.

I can't either, but this series made major changes.  The Cruelest Month bore little resemblance to the novel on which it was based.  White Out and The Murder Stone were the stories that retained some of the elements of the original novels, except for, in the case of The Murder Stone major points like the identity of the murderer and the murdered.  I never read The Hangman so I can't comment on that.  Besides the differences in plot was the addition of the season-long arc of the Canadian residential schools, which were not mentioned in the books.  What bothered me the most was the way the citizens of Three Pines was portrayed.  Clara and Myrna were virtually unrecognizable.  Where were the two close friends who liked to hang out in the easy chairs of the cafe, wearing their jammies, drinking hot chocolate?  Where was the note on the counter of Myrna's bookstore?  Nicholl was very shifty in the books, and comic relief in the show.  Why the inexplicable swap of Gabri and Olivier's names?   However, the writers did nail Gamache, JG and Ruth.

[Cetacean]

And where the heck were the licorice pipes?

[Anothermi]

This is very disappointing. Perhaps Amazon feels there is no market for cerebral mysteries? I agree some characters were miscast. And calling the series after the town? When lots of plots take Gamache to other Quebec locations (and one to Haida Gwaii, BC—the one story with an indigenous thread)—or to France? Yeah. 

Louise Penny's books are sub-titled Three Pines Mysteries (or words to that effect) for a reason. It is the heart of the series not the main protagonist. Although, like Cabot Cove, it has more than its share of horrific events. Still, there was no way any of the book stories were going to give the show a bang-up start**. None of them are that kind of story. I've liked other adaptations by Left Bank Pictures (Outlander anyone?) They've got more integrity around book adaptations than many other production companies. (Although I'm on the fence re: the Crown, but it is not a book series.)

Anyone know how to lobby Amazon? I'm willing to contribute to that. 

ETA ** Actually the book that starts with the big shoot out with ??? and the plot to blow up important Quebec infrastructures (that was it wasn't it?) might have been a possible big-bang start. And then spend a couple of seasons flashing back to the start?  Too late for that now. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Anothermi
addition

[Zella]

11 minutes ago, Anothermi said:

Anyone know how to lobby Amazon? I'm willing to contribute to that. 

On Facebook, Penny encouraged disappointed fans to contact Prime's TV executive Vernon Sanders and she includes his email address. I didn't know if I was allowed to post it here. 

[Anothermi]

14 minutes ago, Zella said:

On Facebook, Penny encouraged disappointed fans to contact Prime's TV executive Vernon Sanders and she includes his email address. I didn't know if I was allowed to post it here. 

Thanks Zella. Email sent: to vernon.sanders@amazonstudios.com

[shrewd.buddha]

"You never get a second chance to make a first impression."
I did not know about the books, so that was not an influence for my household. 
We watched the first two episodes and we were not planning to come back for more -- but ran out of other interesting things to watch.
To my surprise, the later episodes were much better (3->8).

But I can understand the cancellation: Three Pines was pretty miserable: miserable in the sense that everything felt melancholy, all the main characters were tortured, the core residents came off like a diversified yet cloistered death cult, the local art gallery featured never-ending indigenous atrocities, etc.
Maybe the showrunners did not realize how much misery they were piling onto the show with the suicide, single-parent issues, Jean-Guy's marital problems and Gamache's infinite state of sadness. Plus: frequent murders. The music didn't help (lovely but melancholy). 

It took several weeks for us to revisit the series.  The first two episodes just made Gamache's team look incompetent with regards to Blue's disappearance - there were so many obvious ways that Gamache (and Blue's family) could have searched.  Of course things needed to drawn out - - but it was not a good look.
(No one bothered to find the other people in that photograph? No one bothered to go to New York? The family doesn't trust the police, but spends weeks attempting to guilt-trip the police?)

It also felt a little off that the townsfolk of Three Pines and Blue's family seemed to be living in some kind of Hallmark universe: houses that were charmingly cluttered, small but clean and proper.  Not many people seemed bothered by needing to go to work. 

[AnimeMania]

Prime Video Cancels Alfred Molina-Led ‘Three Pines’ After One Season

[blackwing]

On 3/7/2023 at 11:34 AM, OtterMommy said:

I've been thinking about this, and here is what I think happened:

First, I think that Amazon made a few miscalculations.  One of the benefits of adapting an established property is that you are guaranteed an audience.  Louise Penny has a strong following, and they were counting on her audience to become their audience.  Because of that, Amazon didn't put the energy into promoting this show as they probably needed to.  Thus, while it got good ratings, it didn't exceed the ratings they felt were the baseline.

The other issue I read articles from a few sources was that Amazon received a fair amount of backlash from LP for the series departing from the books.  I don't know what that backlash entailed--did people actually contact Amazon to complain, or was it just online?  I don't know.  Personally, I think this complaint is rather silly.  It's one thing to say that you don't like the changes--that's fair.  However, to say that you don't like the show because it wasn't exactly like the book series is not.  All adaptations make changes.  I can't think of a single book-to-series or book-to-movie that didn't make changes.

This is not to say that I don't think the production bears some responsibility.  The writers, or whoever made the decisions, made a gamble that they could move away from the town of Three Pines and focus primarily on Gamache, and that gamble did not pay off.  I know from posts Louise Penny made that she fought against this move away from the town.  Perhaps they should have listened to the one who created it all.

All this being said, I am said they decided not to give it a 2nd season.  I think that the writers probably could have righted the show and made it into something really special. 

 

On 3/7/2023 at 3:01 PM, sugarbaker design said:

I can't either, but this series made major changes.  The Cruelest Month bore little resemblance to the novel on which it was based.  White Out and The Murder Stone were the stories that retained some of the elements of the original novels, except for, in the case of The Murder Stone major points like the identity of the murderer and the murdered.  I never read The Hangman so I can't comment on that.  Besides the differences in plot was the addition of the season-long arc of the Canadian residential schools, which were not mentioned in the books.  What bothered me the most was the way the citizens of Three Pines was portrayed.  Clara and Myrna were virtually unrecognizable.  Where were the two close friends who liked to hang out in the easy chairs of the cafe, wearing their jammies, drinking hot chocolate?  Where was the note on the counter of Myrna's bookstore?  Nicholl was very shifty in the books, and comic relief in the show.  Why the inexplicable swap of Gabri and Olivier's names?   However, the writers did nail Gamache, JG and Ruth.

I'm disappointed that the series has been cancelled, but I agree that it had lots of issues.  People who read the books didn't like the changes from the books.  Whenever watching an adaptation of the book, I expect that there will be some changes (don't get me started on the way that the PBS Marple series butchered those books), but for me, I feel like a lot of the essence of the books was missing.  Three Pines is portrayed as a quaint and charming village hidden in the middle of nowhere outside Montreal.  I didn't get any sense of Three Pines in this show, the show might as well have been set anywhere.

Characters were underdeveloped, it's like we were expected to know who they were without being told much about them, and then when I tried to apply what I knew of them from the books to the show, I found them lacking.

I think the addition of the season long storyline of the missing indigenous girl was a misstep.  The show needed to spend more time introducing the characters and the village, instead of trying to run two plots at the same time.

[Suzn]

https://www.change.org/p/reverse-the-decision-to-cancel-three-pines-on-amazon-prime?source_location=search

I just signed the petition on Change.org and hope there is some chance that the show can return.  It was bad enough that season one ended on a cliff-hanger, but to kill the show is just awful.