Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[Selina K]

I don't know how the celebrities keep it together at all on Twitter.  i read back JMo's live tweet for the west coast last night and between the 80 million responses that say, "I LUV YOU!" and "OMG, I'm dead, dying!" and then the pieces of the fandom who decide they get to correct the stars of the show about their own show, I think I would seriously throw my hands up and just say, "Guess what? I'm on the show, you aren't STFU."  Admittedly I'm not on tumblr or twitter much and so the intricacies of SwanQueen vs SaviorQueen are lost on me, but I cannot imagine having the audacity to correct the star of a show on whatever labeling exists in the fandom world.  She isn't a mind reader and she's not that into it, nor should she be.  She gets paid to do her job, which is act, and understand her and the writers interpretation of the character.  Not the fandom's.  She seems so gracious and demonstrates about 1000% more patience than really warranted with people whom I think need some serious help.

[Serena]

If I understand it correctly, Savior Queen is what some people who like the Emma and Regina relationship but don't ship it romantically have decided to call the ship. So it was perfectly fine for JMo to use in that context, especially because the show is veering so far in queerbaiting territory. This way, she supports the relationship, but doesn't queerbait.

[FormerMod-a1]

In general, I think Savior makes more sense than Swan.  Emma is called the Savior a lot more often on the show, but is hardly ever just called Swan (just Hook, right?  and not always).  Plus, when it comes to Emma and Regina, Queen is Regina's title, so Emma's title should be used too - Savior.  It just makes more sense.  But then again, I'm not one to post rabidly anywhere about the relationships, let alone hound actors and writers and others via Twitter, and if I were it wouldn't be for their relationship - whether friend"ship" or romantic "ship".

[myril]

She isn't a mind reader and she's not that into it, nor should she be.  She gets paid to do her job, which is act, and understand her and the writers interpretation of the character.  Not the fandom's.  She seems so gracious and demonstrates about 1000% more patience than really warranted with people whom I think need some serious help.

 

Agreed, Jennifer Morrison is paid as actor. But promotion is part of actor's job nowadays fairly often. Agree again, she's no mind reader and likely has other things to do than to keep track with all the nuances in the fandom. But there should be people in the production and the television network to exactly do that, paid to monitor not just what some big press people are saying by now, but monitor social media, and do market research. It should be their job to put together necessary information for cast and crew to look not like idiots in promotion and social media. If they do their job right, the cast should have a briefing about hashtags, which to use, which probably to avoid. The whole SQ thing is nothing new, the main cast, the stars of the show should be briefed about it. I don't blame Jennifer Morrison, she's doing her best, but other people doesn't seem to their job that well.

[Curio]

I don't participate in the Tumblr fandom, but I sometimes try to keep up with the fandom tagging drama just because it's funny to look at how delusional some people can be. It's like watching a train wreck where you can't look away, except here, it's a bunch of teenagers bashing each other all the time. I don't know why, but it's oddly fascinating to look at in a social psychology kind of way in terms of ingroups and outgroups.

 

Anyways, what I've gleaned from some of the SwanQueen posters is that they didn't like how some people were using the SaviorQueen tag as an anti-SQ thing. I don't really follow either tags actively, so maybe I'm wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the SaviorQueen tag was started because those people didn't feel comfortable posting their BROTP Emma/Regina feels in the SwanQueen tag. (I can't believe I used the words 'BROTP' and 'feels' unironically.) But just like any fandom, there are some bad apples who probably went too far in bashing Emma and Regina as a romantic couple. Cue the SwanQueen posters latching onto the few bad apple posts and deeming the entire tag a toxic homophobic playground. I also noticed a few posts where some of the SwanQueen fans don't like the separate SaviorQueen tag because those posts don't count toward their "total SQ count" of how popular their fandom is whenever Tumblr does their year end review and measures how big each fandom is. So now, there's a massive movement to get rid of the SaviorQueen tag altogether.

 

Cue Jennifer innocently saying "savior / queen" in a Twitter post and getting jumped on because she - like a normal human being with a busy job and a life who doesn't stay up-to-date on the most recent fandom dramas and proper terminologies in Tumblrland - doesn't really give a shit about tag names. She just wants to interact with and please her fans.

 

That's the best interpretation I can come up with from a neutral lens.

[Dani-Ellie]

I think it's quite clear by now that nothing is enough for this subset of fans. If Jen hadn't commented on the Emma/Regina interaction at all, she would have been jumped on for "ignoring" Swan Queen. If she had used "Swan Queen," she would have been jumped on by people who would accuse her of baiting and/or bitter fans who would accuse her of giving it a token mention and not really caring about it.

 

The fact of the matter is these "fans" need to get their heads out of their asses, recognize how nice it was for the cast to interact with the fans in the first place (network-mandated or not), and stop jumping all over the actors for, heaven forbid, calling character interaction by a different name, for Christ's sake.

 

(Sorry, I'm not feeling well and I'm cranky and lacking my usual tact. But ffs, enough is enough. This is why we can't have nice things.)

Edited March 2, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[OnceUponAJen]

RL shipping makes me physically cringe. Honestly, I'd rather not know about the actors' personal lives and relationships. I enjoy the show for the fantasy and it ends there. Some fans want to blur that line and I don't get it. I think it's very gracious of the cast to live tweet the show, especially when they know they're opening themselves up to some possible craziness as a result. I hope they continue and don't let a few ruin it for everyone.

ETA:I don't know the whole business behind the "coffee" remark, but I've seen "coffee" used as a euphemism for the characters only. Once again, someone probably blurred that line. Ugh.

Edited March 2, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[General Days]

I don't really think the show queer-baits Emma/Regina shippers. I think the actors have chemistry with one another (which can read as sexual/romantic, but doesn't have to be, and probably isn't intended that way; it's just two beautiful, talented actors who have some "it" factor when they're together). I think the show recognized this early on, and made sure to capitalize on it, because it was good (interesting, fun, whatever) to watch.  

I think that spark or chemistry, coupled with the lack of sexual diversity on this show, is what birthed the Emma/Regina shippers. I think it's what births most non-canonical (non-het, particularly) shipping in most fandoms. The show hasn't backed off writing it (and Jennifer and Lana are not, thank goodness, dialing down their performances to the, "I'm dead inside," level, to avoid the appearance of queer-baiting), just because some of the fans of this spark happen to be Emma/Regina shippers. I think that's a good thing. The dynamic between Regina and Emma is good TV. It also (in my opinion) predated the SQ fandom. Why should the show back off from writing/portraying an interesting dynamic (which came first), just because after a while, some fans interpreted it as romantic/sexual?

I'm not an E/R shipper, and not even a slash reader/fan, but I see the sizzle, when Jen and Lana share scenes. To me, it doesn't read sexy, but I completely understand why it reads that way to other fans. These two crackle on screen (to me, the crackle comes from places other than sex, that's all). Why would the show squander that, to appease a fraction of one shipper faction?
 

 

[KingOfHearts]

 

I don't really think the show queer-baits Emma/Regina shippers.

I thought this too... until the dreaded Breaking Glass episode. Emma and Regina's relationship has been known to organically unfold itself through the fact they're co-parents, know each others strengths and weaknesses from all their fighting in the past, and that they have good chemistry. That episode however was contrived and pulled so much out of a hat that I can't think of it as anything more than a fan service bait-fest. Regina was throwing insults at Emma, Emma ignored them, she broke character by being desperate for approval, and if that wasn't enough we had a flashback with a girl who happened to look exactly like a young Regina. The climax of the episode was Emma wanting to be Regina's friend, and that had no setup whatsoever.

 

The writing was on the wall that this was a Swan Queen shippers love letter. I won't go into Scott Nimefro...

Edited March 3, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Minneapple]

IMO the real queerbaiting isn't on the show, it's on the side stuff, the social media and whatnot. They like getting retweets and reblogs on Twitter and tumblr. And there's nothing wrong with that. They're trying to create buzz for the show. Other shows do it too. Pretty Little Liars has made a pretty big thing out of being the most social show on TV. On Teen Wolf, the Sterek ship is still huge on social media (even from the official show accounts) despite the fact that the characters hardly interact.

 

 

 

These two crackle on screen (to me, the crackle comes from places other than sex, that's all). Why would the show squander that, to appease a fraction of one shipper faction?

 

This is your opinion. Some people might think they have no chemistry at all. Others might think their relationship has an unbalanced power dynamic, with Regina constantly belittling Emma and Emma just taking it despite the fact that Regina has done horrible things to her in the past. So for some people there may be no squandering involved if the two characters never interacted again.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Minneapple

[FurryFury]

Actually, most of us were in agreement that the show never queerbated Regina/Emma until the start of season 4. Adam and Eddie even told the fans "It will never happen" (in other words) at some con. But things changed this season, making major female character suddenly bisexual is basically a trend at this point,  after all. And we got stuff like "Breaking Glass", Nimerfro's tweets, Jen and Lana being all supportive of SQ fans on Twitter, etc. There's been a noticeable shift, both in-show and outside of it.

Edited March 3, 2015 by FurryFury

[Altair Aquila]

I still don't see queer-baiting for Regina/Emma on screen. I don't get any vibes from either character that they are romantically or sexually attracted to the other. No other character on the show is being used to drop a hint about it either. Regina has always been the one to point out to Emma that there was something between her and Hook, and not in a jealous way but rather a 'for goodness sake, we can all see it' way. Plus, Regina let everyone know that she was moping over Robin in 4A, and she is on a quest now because she didn't get her man.

 

I assume that Robin and Hook are the men each women will end up with, and again, not in a 'oh we were just kidding about the SQ! We're actually making these women heterosexual' way.

 

What is said on social media might be different, and I think social media interactions could do with some change. I'm told that the writers of Hannibal are very good with dealing with a similar issue on their show, but I can't say first hand. I tend to avoid social media as much as possible.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Altair Aquila

[Serena]

The writers of Hannibal are good? All I've heard on Tumblr is that that show is all about baiting Will/Hannibal. When I hear about queerbaiting, the first three shows that are mentioned are Supernatural, Hannibal and Teen Wolf.

[Featherhat]

Agreed, Jennifer Morrison is paid as actor. But promotion is part of actor's job nowadays fairly often. Agree again, she's no mind reader and likely has other things to do than to keep track with all the nuances in the fandom. But there should be people in the production and the television network to exactly do that, paid to monitor not just what some big press people are saying by now, but monitor social media, and do market research. It should be their job to put together necessary information for cast and crew to look not like idiots in promotion and social media. If they do their job right, the cast should have a briefing about hashtags, which to use, which probably to avoid. The whole SQ thing is nothing new, the main cast, the stars of the show should be briefed about it. I don't blame Jennifer Morrison, she's doing her best, but other people doesn't seem to their job that well.

 

There's being aware of fandom in general and being briefed on important points by an intern who monitors reaction and then there's unreasonable expectations of involvement. Where does it end, having to read PWP fic of her character in case someone asks her about it? I didn't even know the difference between "Swan Queen vs Saviour Queen" and I'm a fan of Emma (though not shipped with Regina). She knows the shippers exist (boy does she) and she knows the names but she shouldn't be expected to know the minutia of shipping wars, especially as it changes constantly and changes between different sub groups. Occasionally she has to pay attention to watch she actually has to film for the show. Not to mention the other ships that Emma is featured in and their fandoms.

 

And you know for her sanity its probably not a great idea to get too deeply involved in fandom and shows that start to involve fandom issues too deeply on the show tend to have a steep drop in quality for me personally. There's being aware of your audience and then there's pandering to them and I think this has begun happening at least since this season.

[RadioGirl27]

I still don't see queer-baiting for Regina/Emma on screen.

Episode 4x5 was pure queerbating, both what happened in Storybrooke and in the flashback. But the biggest queerbating moment for me was when, during the Shatered Sight spell, Emma used her relantionship with Hook and not Henry as a way to make Regina angry. That made no sense.

Edited March 3, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[sharky]

The writers of Hannibal are good? All I've heard on Tumblr is that that show is all about baiting Will/Hannibal. When I hear about queerbaiting, the first three shows that are mentioned are Supernatural, Hannibal and Teen Wolf.

And guess where we got Scott Nimerfro and his inappropriate tweets from? Hannibal.

It was interesting to compare Jen and Colin's live tweets because they are very different in style. Colin seems to stick with one-word answers and saying hello to fans begging for a hi or something. It's nice but not all that insightful. Jen seems to be more talkative and open and then seems to be the one getting more fan drama. So it seems the actors are screwed either way.

[Dani-Ellie]

She knows the shippers exist (boy does she) and she knows the names but she shouldn't be expected to know the minutia of shipping wars, especially as it changes constantly and changes between different sub groups. Occasionally she has to pay attention to watch she actually has to film for the show. Not to mention the other ships that Emma is featured in and their fandoms.

 

This. The problem I have with laying the responsibility at the social media user's feet is that the fans are taken off the hook. Now, obviously, the social media user shouldn't intentionally go around pissing people off but the fans have a responsibility here, too. Social media interaction is a two-way street, after all.

 

This goes back to the same problem I had a few months back of these fans demanding respect but not giving respect in return. They demand what they want when they want it and in the way that they want it and they will absolutely let you know if you've failed. That's not fair. There is absolutely no way I can expect actors and actresses who spend literally more than half of their day on set making the shows we watch to understand all the intricacies of fandom. There is no way any one person -- actor, actress, writer, social media intern -- can understand all the intricacies of a particular fandom. Hell, I'm in the fandom and I don't understand all the intricacies of it. There should be a responsibility on the fans to have the maturity to remember that there are in fact real people on the other end of the username, real people who have real lives and real feelings, and there should be a responsibility on the fans to recognize that their little section of fandom is not the center of the universe.

 

But maybe I'm the one who's naive, expecting others to exhibit maturity and common decency.

 

 

 

Colin seems to stick with one-word answers and saying hello to fans begging for a hi or something. It's nice but not all that insightful. Jen seems to be more talkative and open and then seems to be the one getting more fan drama. So it seems the actors are screwed either way.

 

They are screwed either way, and it's so very sad. Because look, I'm old enough to remember writing fan letters and sending them off to fan mail addresses care of the studios and maybe getting an autographed picture in response. Here we have an opportunity to directly interact with the people who make our shows and possibly have them respond in real time ... and this is what people do with it.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[OnceUponAJen]

They are screwed either way, and it's so very sad. Because look, I'm old enough to remember writing fan letters and sending them off to fan mail addresses care of the studios and maybe getting an autographed picture in response. Here we have an opportunity to directly interact with the people who make our shows and possibly have them respond in real time ... and this is what people do with it.

I'm old enough to remember that too! You might be able to write in and become a member of a fan club or something, but direct interaction was rare. With the interaction has come a sense of entitlement.

[myril]

And you know for her sanity its probably not a great idea to get too deeply involved in fandom and shows that start to involve fandom issues too deeply on the show tend to have a steep drop in quality for me personally. There's being aware of your audience and then there's pandering to them and I think this has begun happening at least since this season.

 

That's what PR people are for. As I said, I don't blame Jennifer Morrison, I don't expect her to keep herself all up-to-date. But some PR people should do exactly that for them and brief them well enough. If PR people neglect the fandom and believe PR is all about butt kissing the media outlets, well, they're doing not their best job anymore. It's the fraking job of a social media manager to know about hashtags and their use in detail. And it's the productions job to give promotion and PR in general and  on social media some thought and find the right people to do that for them. Letting some intern keep an eye on that is by far not enough nowadays.

 

Of course some fans should be taught some netiquette, a lot of people behave on Internet as if they were in their cozy private home and not in all public, but as much I see a responsibility on production side to handle such shitstorms and community fights better than the stupid trolling Horowitz is doing.

Edited March 3, 2015 by katusch

[sharky]

To be fair, I didn't know there was a war between Savior Queen and Swan Queen fans or whatever and I'm on tumblr everyday. Maybe I just don't follow enough crazy people. But it's a bit ridiculous how much certain people in this fandom get their feelings hurt over a word or two. I love this TV show, but it's just a TV show!

[Souris]

Episode 4x5 was pure queerbating, both what happened in Storybrooke and in the flashback.

 

Yep, that ep was conceived, written and promoted heavily as an SQ ep. That's queerbaiting. Now they have a writer whose sole purpose seems to be playing to the SQ crowd on Twitter. That's queerbaiting.

[RadioGirl27]

It was interesting to compare Jen and Colin's live tweets because they are very different in style. Colin seems to stick with one-word answers and saying hello to fans begging for a hi or something. It's nice but not all that insightful. Jen seems to be more talkative and open and then seems to be the one getting more fan drama. So it seems the actors are screwed either way.

After all I've seen from this fandom, I think Colin's approach is the better one. The less you say, the better. That way there are less opportunities for the crazies to misunderstand you.

 

 

Yep, that ep was conceived, written and promoted heavily as an SQ ep. That's queerbaiting. Now they have a writer whose sole purpose seems to be playing to the SQ crowd on Twitter. That's queerbaiting.

Yeah, and not only that. Someone was wondering in the Snow thread why she wasn't the one involved in Operation Dumbass because helping Regina with her happy ending is something right up her alley. And it's true, it would make so much more sense if it was Snow and not Emma the one helping Regina with it (the plan would be still stupid, though). I hate to sound as a broken record, but having Emma working with Regina here, even if it means that Emma is acting totally OOC, is another example of queer-baiting. Putting Emma and Regina together in this storyline it's again A&E trying to appease this particular group of fans. And this is a big mistake, because they are letting a particularly nasty group of fans dictate the show with their terrible behaviour. Because even if they are not giving them what they want, they are still giving them something as a reward for attaking and harassing some of the actors, and even themselves (the writers), on twitter.

(I know I'm repeating myself, but this "lets reward the bullies" irritates the teacher in me)

Edited March 3, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Dani-Ellie]

Of course some fans should be taught some netiquette, a lot of people behave on Internet as if they were in their cozy private home and not in all public, but as much I see a responsibility on production side to handle such shitstorms and community fights better than the stupid trolling Horowitz is doing.

 

Maybe I'm just annoyed because the shitstorms that are happening are so damn petty. Like ffs, we can't even have a live tweet session without a bunch of fans getting their undies in a twist over the use of "savior" instead of "swan." It's not like Jen did or said something egregious. The fans jumped on her for using the wrong word to describe her character's interactions with another character. A couple months ago, it was a picture of a tea blend, for crying out loud. This seems to happen a lot over the smallest shit and I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerened, that's on the fans. They need to grow the hell up and stop following Jen on Twitter if she pisses them off so much.

 

But it's a bit ridiculous how much certain people in this fandom get their feelings hurt over a word or two. I love this TV show, but it's just a TV show!

 

This.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[Stuffy]

Jennifer wasn't even wrong though because she was talking about her "savior" magic.  Since when is Emma's magic "swan" magic?  It's not.

 

 Also are people actually using "savior queen" tag for homophobia purposes?   Or are they just calling the fact there's a Emma/Regina friendship tag at all homophobia.  I had no idea there was an issue.  I do know that if you don't like swan queen there are those that will call you a homophobic but those seem to be the same people that are always looking for a fight.  Just like the person questioning Jennifer about savior queen.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Stuffy

[KingOfHearts]

 

Just like the person questioning Jennifer about savior queen.

As if there's an authority on non-canon ship names.

[Souris]

Jennifer wasn't even wrong though because she was talking about her "savior" magic.  Since when is Emma's magic "swan" magic?  It's not.

 

 Also are people actually using "savior queen" tag for homophobia purposes?   Or are they just calling the fact there's a Emma/Regina friendship tag at all homophobia.  I had no idea there was an issue.  I do know that if you don't like swan queen there are those that will call you a homophobic but those seem to be the same people that are always looking for a fight.  Just like the person questioning Jennifer about savior queen.

 

It's just the SQ fandom's general use of calling anybody who doesn't support SQ homophobic. I'm certain there IS some homophobia in some people's dislike of it, because there is in society as a whole, but it's not even remotely true for most of the people who don't like it. Some Swan Queen fans actually got annoyed when people talked about it being a friendship in the SQ tag, and others wanted a friendship-only Emma/Regina tag, hence Savior Queen. It is NOT a homophobia outlet. But the usual agitators want to make it all about homophobia.

[buildmeupbuttercup]

The problem I have with laying the responsibility at the social media user's feet is that the fans are taken off the hook. Now, obviously, the social media user shouldn't intentionally go around pissing people off but the fans have a responsibility here, too. Social media interaction is a two-way street, after all.

 

This goes back to the same problem I had a few months back of these fans demanding respect but not giving respect in return. They demand what they want when they want it and in the way that they want it and they will absolutely let you know if you've failed. That's not fair. There should be a responsibility on the fans to have the maturity to remember that there are in fact real people on the other end of the username, real people who have real lives and real feelings, and there should be a responsibility on the fans to recognize that their little section of fandom is not the center of the universe.

 

Maybe I'm just annoyed because the shitstorms that are happening are so damn petty. Like ffs, we can't even have a live tweet session without a bunch of fans getting their undies in a twist over the use of "savior" instead of "swan." It's not like Jen did or said something egregious. The fans jumped on her for using the wrong word to describe her character's interactions with another character. A couple months ago, it was a picture of a tea blend, for crying out loud. This seems to happen a lot over the smallest shit and I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerened, that's on the fans. They need to grow the hell up and stop following Jen on Twitter if she pisses them off so much.

 

All of this. This behavior pisses me off so badly! I read an article last night about sportscaster Keith Olbermann who was suspended from ESPN for a Twitter battle. Yesterday when he returned to his show he urged others to:

“stop viewing social media as an alternative for Wild West saloon brawling” with a goal “to inflict as much damage on as many people as we disagree with as quickly as we possibly can.”

As soon as I read that I immediately thought of these entitled SQ fans who attack Jen if she doesn't say exactly what they want to hear. She tweets about the friendship that appears in the episode that she's live tweeting about but they come at her guns a blazin' for not using the "romance" ship name. She is paid to be an actor on a show they have the choice to watch or turn off, she's not paid to be a personal coddler who will tell them exactly what they want to hear in the exact, microscopic prism of how/when they want to hear it. If that's how these "fans" think it works in the real world then they have a real shock waiting for them. Are these people still combative assholes when they have to actually exceed 140 characters and engage in real world conversations? Stop being little shits because you can hide behind a username and computer screen!

 

After the shitstorm went down on Sunday night I went through and read the tweets Jen gets. Poor thing. She must be a far nicer, more forgiving person than me because not only would I never do an Ask Jen again after what she's had to deal with but it probably would've made me swear off Twitter forever. Even taking away the attack tweets the ones that scared me were the ones like this: "Jen Jen Jen Jen Jen Jen say hi to meeeeee", "ugggg why aren't you tweeting me","answer meeeeeeee!!!!!", "I will not be ignored", "am I invisible like the town line????". I get that the Twitter "hi" from a celeb is the digital equivalent now of the celebrity autograph but this crap scares the hell outta me for the stars sake. It sounds insanely stalker-ish. They're forgetting this is a real person who is spending what little free time she has interacting with them. Learn to have some respect and common decency! 

 

I feel like I'm a social media grandma yelling at the young whippersnappers :(

Edited March 4, 2015 by buildmeupbuttercup

[OnceUponAJen]

I've always liked JMo...been a fan since "House." She seems like a classy lady and a great role model. I think she does all she can to connect with the positive elements of the fandom, and that's great for us. It's too bad that there's so much negative that goes along with fame (and Twitter).

[Serena]

How quickly things have turned for Scott is cracking me up (warning for some spoilers people are tweeting at him and he can't help but respond, because he's 12). Also how he's getting fed up with their drama.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Serena

[sharky]

Someone needs to change Scott's Twitter password. And by someone, I mean someone on staff. I'm more than happy to watch this stupid drama that he has created swirl around him. ;)

[OnceUponAJen]

If I had a contract and the clout to demand it, I would totally have a clause stating thst I get to kiss hot men ;)

[Souris]

Oh, they're still being mild to him, compared to how they are with others.

[Dani-Ellie]

This is funny and all (no, seriously, it's hilarious) but wtf is up with this fan reply re: Jen's joke in the special about having it in her contract that she has to kiss hot men:

 

"@ScottNimerfro Thank god. I wouldn't put it past her. It would explain a lot of her PR."

 

No, seriously, wtf?

[Stuffy]

The fact that someone actually thought Jennifer was serious is hilarious to me. That's just sad.

[RadioGirl27]

This is funny and all (no, seriously, it's hilarious) but wtf is up with this fan reply re: Jen's joke in the special about having it in her contract that she has to kiss hot men:

 

"@ScottNimerfro Thank god. I wouldn't put it past her. It would explain a lot of her PR."

 

No, seriously, wtf?

You know, some SQ shippers are convinced that Jen is a closeted lesbian in love with Lana. Maybe this person is one of them.

[Featherhat]

I haven't noticed Jennifer's PR one way or the other really. It's neither universally pro or con. Zoe on HIMYM was probably her most universally hated role, but Cameron had her chunk of fans and I think Emma/Jen as Emma is viewed fairly positively but has her detractors, there doesn't seem to be gooey love bomb PR issues you get with some shows and actors.

 

And her personal life appears fairly unremarkable. If she's a closet lesbian ( and really what are the odds that fans of a subtext pairing would find "sub sub text" in actor interactions.) she's not doing it ostentatiously.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Featherhat

[Serena]

No, with her PR they mean the way she talks. See, there's two SQ school of thoughts re: Jennifer (sometimes, the same SQ will think both, depending on the situation, and that's remarkable mental gymnastics): either she's a closet lesbian, and it's their duty as queer advocates to out her against her will and call her names on Twitter because she won't come out, or she's a ditzy blonde in love with anything with a dick (Colin/MRJ/Jamie Dornan/insert co-star or man she's ever been in a picture together here) who does things like put kissing clauses in her contracts (because, apparently, she can't get hot men on her own without it being contractually mandated? LMAO). I think this particular SQ fan was implying the second thing. JMo actually makes that joke (or similar) all the time. The first time I remember was, I think, at Paley Fest? She made a joke about wanting Emma to kiss some men (this was middle of S2, maybe?) because she hadn't since Graham died and they freaked out because it was unprofessional and also homophobic for her to say "men" and not "people".

Edited March 5, 2015 by Serena

[Mari]

The first time I remember was, I think, at Paley Fest? She made a joke about wanting Emma to kiss some men (this was middle of S2, maybe?) because she hadn't since Graham died and they freaked out because it was unprofessional and also homophobic for her to say "men" and not "people".

Really. This is crazy. I mean, if Emma were written as someone sexually interested in women, and Morrison was complaining or demanding in her future contract she kiss men instead, I'd see their point. But, since when is it homophobic to be straight and play a staight character, and joke about how attractive her onscreen partners are? Who was she diminishing or bashing by acknowledging the attractiveness of the people her character is being paired with? I don't get it.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Mari

[Souris]

This is funny and all (no, seriously, it's hilarious) but wtf is up with this fan reply re: Jen's joke in the special about having it in her contract that she has to kiss hot men:

 

"@ScottNimerfro Thank god. I wouldn't put it past her. It would explain a lot of her PR."

 

No, seriously, wtf?

 

Oh, the particular SQer who said that is one of the most militant and notorious of the SQ Bad Apples. She is ALWAYS in the SQ drama and sending hate to the actors/writers/whoever and slapping them with the "homophobic" label. Also one of the SQers that Scott has been paling around with.

[pezgirl7]

I feel like a lot of young people these days are so politically correct and try to be so inclusive when talking about gender, sexuality, liberalism, or women's rights, and many seem to feel the need to admonish others on their incorrect and narrow-minded ways of thinking. I find it incredibly tiring, especially when I am on tumblr and see the rants people post. Any kind of rant directed at a large group annoys me, because normally the person is being hypocritical or lumping everyone into one group. Leave me out of your drama!

[YaddaYadda]

I find it incredibly tiring

 

And condescending and snotty and completely entitled.  It's total and absolute bullshit.  

[Dani-Ellie]

Oh, the particular SQer who said that is one of the most militant and notorious of the SQ Bad Apples. She is ALWAYS in the SQ drama and sending hate to the actors/writers/whoever and slapping them with the "homophobic" label. Also one of the SQers that Scott has been paling around with.

 

Jesus flippin' Christmas. I don't get it. At. All.

[Selina K]

It seems like two words people should look for here are "relax" and chill."  

[Dani-Ellie]

For this one instance, perhaps, but this one instance is indicative of the big problem here, which is how dare someone who doesn't know the actors and actresses personally presume to know how they live their lives? I highly doubt that fan would ever say that to Jen's face, which is also part of the problem. If they wouldn't say it to their face, I don't think they should be hiding behind a Twitter handle and an avatar to say it to their colleague.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[sharky]

I think this pretty much sums all of it up -- and crazy enough, it came from Scott himself on his Twitter account.

 

My favorite line of Cruella dialogue that was cut last night went like this... Cruella to Maleficient: "Hooray Darling! You're the worst!"

 

[Featherhat]

Thing is, slash or femslash shipping has eff all to do with LGBT rights or representation on TV, it's so disingenuous. It's about winning and seeing whichever pair of cute boys and cute girls you personally prefer actually on TV (and winning some more). If it was more SQ fans would have been more supportive of the closest thing this show has to an LGBT pairing and also campaigned for more/better SleepingWarrior and or future Disney characters who had same sex HEAs. But no its devolved into Swan vs Saviour terminology freakouts.

 

In the "homophobia accusation" discussion re Teen Wolf a few years ago I asked someone why they didn't campaign for better storylines for the show's canon gay character. "He's boring and has nothing to do" so they'd rather bitch at the writers for not immediately recreating their angst!fanfic idea with two character who hadn't expressed any romantic interest in each other than better representation as a whole. Right, nice hiding behind social justice for tour personal fantasies. Nor is "sudden bisexual journey" a storyline that TV and fanfic writers have a particularly great track record in.

 

Emma as far as on screen goes is straight or has exclusively dated guys so far, it makes sense that JMO is going to joke about mandatory hot guy kisses. Now if she had said that after she and Regina (or she and Red or anyone else) had kissed, then you might feel miffed, but since her ships on the show are always guys, it makes sense. She plays along with all her fans and reacts a lot better than many people and many fellow actors would. She gets the public equivalent  of a misguided fan shoving NC-17 JMo/LP fic into her hands at a con and expecting her to adore it every day on twitter and she still engages no matter her private thoughts.

 

And from the writers side "throwing a bone" or being meta can quickly degenerate from "exploring sub text" to purely WTF? writing. And whilst "queerbaiting" has become so expanded and loaded a phrase as to loose its helpfulness the "meta, meta fandom clicks, oh wait no homo!" is alive and well.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Featherhat

[Faemonic]

Whenever I see BA I think that it stands for Buffy and Angel. So when I read (elsewhere), "Don't be like the BA SQers, CS fans" I think, "Why wouldn't there be multi-shipping cross-fandom overlap?"

 

(If Dianthus is reading this, yes, I know you love Spike and Spuffy. Peace. Your OTP acronyms will never be confused for anything untoward, hurrah.)

 

But speaking of Bad Apples...

 

See, there's two SQ school of thoughts re: Jennifer (sometimes, the same SQ will think both, depending on the situation, and that's remarkable mental gymnastics): either she's a closet lesbian, and it's their duty as queer advocates to out her against her will and call her names on Twitter because she won't come out, or she's a ditzy blonde in love with anything with a dick (Colin/MRJ/Jamie Dornan/insert co-star or man she's ever been in a picture together here) who does things like put kissing clauses in her contracts (because, apparently, she can't get hot men on her own without it being contractually mandated? LMAO). 

I thought we already went through all this with the Glee episode that outed Santana, Stateside Television Fandom! It is not cool to out people! It is not cool to pressure people to out themselves! The patriarchy wants us to think it's cool to out lesbians, so that we forget that lesbians are people, but lesbians are people remember?? We're not falling for that anymore, remember??? Fandom? Fandom, I am waving my palm up and down in front of your face. Come back to your senses, Fandom. Please. 

 

The actors are not the characters.

The actors are not the characters.

The characters are not the actors.

 

Fandom, I'm begging you.

 

Tangent: What monstrous sort of world and times do we live in now when someone has to be public about their sexuality in order to be considered honest? When did privacy become not an option in social justice? When did "social 'justice'" in identity politics become about disrespecting people's personal boundaries? When did representation become appalling entitlement?

[FurryFury]

(If Dianthus is reading this, yes, I know you love Spike and Spuffy. Peace. Your OTP acronyms will never be confused for anything untoward, hurrah.)

 

Hey, we can also be Bangel!

 

It is not cool to out people! It is not cool to pressure people to out themselves!

 

I remember an old episode of Veronica Mars dealing with a high schooler trying to out her closeted girlfriend. I never really thought about this stuff, but I liked how it brought this to my attention. I suspect such a forced outing - even by a person who wants the best for you - can be incredibly traumatic.

 

Tangent: What monstrous sort of world and times do we live in now when someone has to be public about their sexuality in order to be considered honest? When did privacy become not an option in social justice? When did "social 'justice'" in identity politics become about disrespecting people's personal boundaries? When did representation become appalling entitlement?

 

Preach it.

[Curio]

Thing is, slash or femslash shipping has eff all to do with LGBT rights or representation on TV, it's so disingenuous. It's about winning and seeing whichever pair of cute boys and cute girls you personally prefer actually on TV (and winning some more).

 

I don't doubt that the SQ fandom legitimately wants better representation on the show, but when people start using phrases like "ew not here for the hetero" or "rape culture" or "triggering behavior" just because those are the new catchphrases of the moment, then that completely dilutes their message and makes them look like they only want their "team" to win the canon couples game.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Curio

[Dani-Ellie]

Exactly. I would be much more inclined to believe the representation argument if many of the people for SQ were pushing just as hard for Mulan/Aurora or Ursula/Cruella or Belle/Red or Emma/Elsa or any other same-sex pairing. But the fact that a vast majority of it comes across as "SQ or the highway" makes the "we just want representation" claim look a bit suspect. 

 

(And frankly, SQ to me has the same host of problems these fans claim CS has, so.)

Edited March 6, 2015 by Dani-Ellie