S06.E01: Afterparty

[DanaK]

Quote

MONDAY, OCT. 3

10:00-11:00 p.m. 

Shaun and Lea's long-awaited wedding reception is interrupted by a violent attack at the hospital and the entire team must must mobilize to save the victims. Meanwhile, the trauma of seeing people he cares for in life-threatening situations is affecting Shaun in more ways than one.

[greekmom]

OMG THAT WAS INTENSE.

It was an emotional rollercoaster.

I am so glad you are back show.

[SunnyBeBe]

I almost had to turn the sound down. Sometimes, I can’t handle the drama.  

[SunnyBeBe]

This has to be the biggest convoluted, contrived BS…….I think the show has really lost me.  

[Madding crowd]

It was a very intense episode. I still maintain the hospital would not keep a surgeon who breaks down and has a temper tantrum in the middle of surgery. It would be too much of a liability for the hospital.

[Annber03]

Well, damn :(. They give us hope all ends well and then...that. 

So what happened to Villanueva, then? Is she actually okay? 

I liked the stuff with Shaun and Steve on its own, and I get why he might have some flashbacks to that trauma at a moment like this, but it seemed kind of odd the way they worked it into the story. I would've liked it if perhaps we got Shaun reflecting on his history with Lim, and how their history of working together and all they've been through would be affecting his judgment. 

Asher talking to the shooter was good.

So is this it for Morgan and Park, then? Hm. 

I did appreciate the message at the end pointing out how domestic violence is often a factor in mass shootings. I don't know if this entire situation really qualified as a mass shooting situation as we know them, but still, the point stands all the same and it's definitely one worth highlighting. 

So. Guess we'll be seeing how Lim will handle this going forward, then...

[thuganomics85]

Quote

So what happened to Villanueva, then? Is she actually okay?

Yes, she is.  You see her in the hospital bed with Andrews at the end.

Not too surprised that Lim survived the big cliffhanger, but I was pleasantly surprised Villanueva made it as well.  Hell, even her abusive ex was saved, so they made sure no bodies got dropped here!  But, of course, the other shoe did drop and it looks like Lim is paralyzed.  I wonder if it was complications due to one of the surgeries or if it was simply where she got stabbed.  Either way, I'm sure we are going to be in for a lot of turmoil and angst.  At least Christina Chang will hopefully be given a lot of material to work with here since she's pretty awesome.

Glad everything worked out, but they really need to either address or move pass Shaun having some kind of freakout midway through a case/surgery.  Sure, he is usually able to snap out of it at the end, but if there was any kind of realism here, the day will come where it will cause a major issue and maybe even someone's life.  For all of his talents, this is an obstacle that should really concern everyone involved.  Maybe him seeing Steve and actually opening up about some of his trauma with Lea will be a catalyst for him to start seeing some kind of therapist or something.  I hope so.

Poor Asher got stuck with hostage duty tonight!  It seem like they were attempting to add some layers to the shooter by revealing his own father was abusive and he ended up following in his footsteps despite his efforts not to, but it was kind of flimsy and half-hearted.  Still, always good seeing Terry Chen!

The lockdown causes Reznick to rethink her priorities and decides to turn down the job offer to remain with Park, only for Park to just be like "Nah, you've already made your choice.  We're done"?  Kind of out of nowhere and overdramatic, but I do wonder if Park is onto something about her currently wanting to choose him over her career advancement is due to heighten emotions and she might grow to resent the decision once time passes.  Of course, unless Fiona Gubelmann is leaving, I don't see Reznick going to New York for good.  Speaking of which, I wonder if Park being locked outside of the hospital was always the plan or did Will Yun Lee need a lighter episode this go around?

Hope Jerome stick around.

Welcome back, show!

[bros402]

This episode demonstrates again why the hospital should require Shaun to attend therapy if he wants to continue practicing medicine - he had a meltdown in the middle of surgery. Bare minimum, the show should have him address his PTSD about his brother's death. Ideally, they would have Shaun do therapy for his social skills deficits and other autism related therapy (not ABA, though).
 

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

I did appreciate the message at the end pointing out how domestic violence is often a factor in mass shootings. I don't know if this entire situation really qualified as a mass shooting situation as we know them, but still, the point stands all the same and it's definitely one worth highlighting. 

So. Guess we'll be seeing how Lim will handle this going forward, then...

This doesn't really qualify as a mass shooting - the minimum places define one as 4 people shot. Although this was more of a mass casualty event - Lim and Nurse were stabbed, two guards were shot.

Edited October 4, 2022 by bros402

[circumvent]

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

This episode demonstrates again why the hospital should require Shaun to attend therapy if he wants to continue practicing medicine - he had a meltdown in the middle of surgery. Bare minimum, the show should have him address his PTSD about his brother's death. Ideally, they would have Shaun do therapy for his social skills deficits and other autism related therapy (not ABA, though).

Yeah, the problem is that the writers got themselves in a situation where they cannot really give the character a fair portrayal. Shaun, as written, does need therapy. As you said, at least to address his PTSD. On the other hand, Shaun, the autistic doctor, cannot exist in the real world. All the autism tropes and real difficulties in one character makes this character too far away from reality. An autistic person having meltdowns during surgery would not even be a doctor because no hospital would want to work with them, no matter how powerful the mentor might be. An autistic surgeon is 100% possible, they probably exist by the dozen everywhere, but they would be the autistic person who has learnt to manage the most difficulty moments and would not be a liability and an annoyance to everyone else. In the show, they make Shaun so special, it is infantilizing and just short of full blown inspiration porn.

[greekmom]

5 hours ago, circumvent said:

Yeah, the problem is that the writers got themselves in a situation where they cannot really give the character a fair portrayal. Shaun, as written, does need therapy. As you said, at least to address his PTSD. On the other hand, Shaun, the autistic doctor, cannot exist in the real world. All the autism tropes and real difficulties in one character makes this character too far away from reality. An autistic person having meltdowns during surgery would not even be a doctor because no hospital would want to work with them, no matter how powerful the mentor might be. An autistic surgeon is 100% possible, they probably exist by the dozen everywhere, but they would be the autistic person who has learnt to manage the most difficulty moments and would not be a liability and an annoyance to everyone else. In the show, they make Shaun so special, it is infantilizing and just short of full blown inspiration porn.

To be fair if memory serves me correct, isn't this the first time Shaun had a breakdown during an operation? At all times he was his unemotional self.   The breakdown was a result of a shooter in the hospital and he couldn't handle the situation due to his PTSD.  Didn't Lim herself have several breakdowns at the hospital during the course of the pandemic (another stressful situation) or in the aftermath which triggered her PTSD ?

I do agree that he does need some sort of therapy to create coping strategies.

[circumvent]

19 minutes ago, greekmom said:

To be fair if memory serves me correct, isn't this the first time Shaun had a breakdown during an operation?

He has meltdowns all the time, and people who have meltdowns all the time are simply not fit for certain jobs, surgeon being one of them. Some neurodivergent people can find their own way of coping with trigger situations, allowing them to do the job they want. What they did with the character, is to use the 'autistic people have trouble coping with stressful situations" trope and make that a prominent feature of this specific autistic character, which doe not fir the qualifications. It is a mess

[Avabelle]

Reznick gets held at gunpoint which makes her realise she loves Park and wants to make things work. Park coldly dumps her. 

Honestly good riddance. Like if a near death experience isn’t going to make you cherish your loved one what is. I’m so over this relationship. Park is forever making out that Reznick is selfish. She’s forever trying to be better for him. There’s nothing wrong with ambition and she was hardly dumping him by admitting she wanted a job. The way he speaks to her is so degrading. He seems to get away with it because she’s meant to be a “bitchy” character or whatever. She’s never going to be good enough for him. He’s done her a favour at this point by ending things. I want better for her. . 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Avabelle

[Virtual]

Well, should I call it a miracle that everybody survived? Because it is; this was one of the worst situations of the entire series. I’m sure Lim would take her current situation over dying. Hopefully it wasn’t a result of any surgery they’d done on her that caused her paralysis.

Reznick and Park have great chemistry more often than not but they both have different ideas on navigating a relationship.

Also, I can’t get over how much older the actor playing Steve looks now.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Virtual

[CarpeFelis]

FFS, do the writers hate Lim or what? They give her PTSD, they kill off Melendez, then they find her another guy but he runs off on her, and now she’s paralyzed?! Lim is my favorite badass character in this show and I want her to have more storyline, but do they really have to keep making her miserable to do that?

[rmontro]

I thought the episode was good, although they had gone a little overboard by the time it was over.  Oh well.

It's interesting that Shaun appeared to be far and away the best doctor (tantrums aside), even better than Glassman.  Since according to the previews, he's going to made an attending next week, it's probably good timing.  I don't expect this to ever come up, but I wonder if Lim would have been paralyzed if they would have followed Glassman's plan of cutting out half her liver?

2 hours ago, Avabelle said:

Park is forever making out that Reznick is selfish. She’s forever trying to be better for him. There’s nothing wrong with ambition and she was hardly dumping him by admitting she wanted a job. The way he speaks to her is so degrading. He seems to get away with it because she’s meant to be a “bitchy” character or whatever. She’s never going to be good enough for him. He’s done her a favour at this point by ending things. I want better for her. . 

I was thinking I was the only one here who didn't hate Morgan, she's become one of my favorites over the past year or so.  I was hoping her presence in this episode meant she was going to be sticking around, but maybe she's gone after all.  They're bringing in more people next week, seems like they have to get rid of someone.

[tennisgurl]

That was certainly a roller coaster! Everything seems like its going to be alright, even the abusive husband made it out alright, and then of course the gut punch at the end. Its always something, this hospital needs to think about calling in some priests or rabbis or shamans or something, they might be dealing with a curse. This seems like a disproportionately high number of terrible things happening at one location.

Shaun talking to Steve was really nice, Shaun really does need to talk to a therapist or something. Even beyond being on the spectrum, he clearly has a TON of issues and unpacked trauma and its obviously affecting his job performance. Even though he pulled it together at the end, as always, a surgeon cant make a habit of freaking out like that during a surgery. 

Reznick and Park are fun together and have great chemistry, but I don't think its going to work out. They just want different things and have different priorities. 

Poor Asher got to be the designated "talk to the shooter" guy, but at least it brought him and his boyfriend closer together and the talk he had with the abusive husband was really good. Its really sad that the guy went on to become like his father, abuse is a rough cycle to get out of. 

[CarpeFelis]

34 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I was thinking I was the only one here who didn't hate Morgan, she's become one of my favorites over the past year or so.  I was hoping her presence in this episode meant she was going to be sticking around, but maybe she's gone after all.  They're bringing in more people next week, seems like they have to get rid of someone.

It’s hardly fair that Park gave her a hard time for being ambitious since obviously he knew that about her long before they ever became a couple. Plus, he himself was ambitious enough to change careers from cop to surgeon…. I can understand him being upset that she wanted to take a job in NY and didn’t consult him, but she changed her mind and decided their relationship was more important, and THEN he dumps her?!

[thuganomics85]

1 hour ago, CarpeFelis said:

FFS, do the writers hate Lim or what? They give her PTSD, they kill off Melendez, then they find her another guy but he runs off on her, and now she’s paralyzed?! Lim is my favorite badass character in this show and I want her to have more storyline, but do they really have to keep making her miserable to do that?

I guess after Antonia Thomas left, they figured someone had to take over in the "always suffering" department.  Because if Claire was still around, you just know they would have had her be the one to get paralyzed!

On a more serious note, I think it's another one of those cases where the show has someone (Christina Chang) who clearly can bring it no matter what the circumstance is, so the writers use that as a reason to just heap angst and trauma on the character so she can act the hell out of it.  Which, it's good in the sense that a performer can shine, but it almost gets comical at times with how everything bad seems to happen to them.  Another example that pops into my mind right now is Raven from The 100, who was played by one of (IMO, at least) the best performers on that show, Lindsey Morgan, but they just piled on so many bad stuff that it almost became hilarious how every bad thing that could possible happen would happen to poor Raven.

[possibilities]

So... Park wasn't willing to sacrifice his career to move with Morgan to NY? But he wanted her to sacrifice her career to stay with him? 

[Avabelle]

The issue with Park and Reznik for me is that he doesn’t want an ambitious partner. He wants a girlfriend who’s able to focus on him and their relationship. He doesn’t want to have to compromise. And that’s fine I guess, but instead of owning this he puts all the blame on Reznik. She’s selfish. She’s not putting the relationship first. He acts as though he’s some sort of victim when in actuality he’s always putting her down. 

She was held at gunpoint. She could have died. Yet instead of seeking her out or even being overly concerned by the looks of things he sat there stewing over how she put their relationship behind her career. 
 

[greekmom]

6 hours ago, circumvent said:

He has meltdowns all the time, and people who have meltdowns all the time are simply not fit for certain jobs, surgeon being one of them. Some neurodivergent people can find their own way of coping with trigger situations, allowing them to do the job they want. What they did with the character, is to use the 'autistic people have trouble coping with stressful situations" trope and make that a prominent feature of this specific autistic character, which doe not fir the qualifications. It is a mess

Meltdowns yes but as i specifically said when push comes to shove has he had meltdowns in the operating room before this time? I don't believe so but again, I could be wrong. And the other times he has had meltdowns is when he feels that he is right and the others need to listen to him.

Alot of people have issues coping with stressful situations depending on the situation and a good many people with ASD have issues dealing with stressful situations, so it's not a trope.  Shaun is a brilliant doctor and deserves to be there.

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

I was thinking I was the only one here who didn't hate Morgan, she's become one of my favorites over the past year or so.  I was hoping her presence in this episode meant she was going to be sticking around, but maybe she's gone after all.  They're bringing in more people next week, seems like they have to get rid of someone.

Add me to someone who likes Morgan. She's driven yeah but she's a great complex character.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Meltdowns yes but as i specifically said when push comes to shove has he had meltdowns in the operating room before this time? I don't believe so but again, I could be wrong. And the other times he has had meltdowns is when he feels that he is right and the others need to listen to him.

Alot of people have issues coping with stressful situations depending on the situation and a good many people with ASD have issues dealing with stressful situations, so it's not a trope.  Shaun is a brilliant doctor and deserves to be there.

Add me to someone who likes Morgan. She's driven yeah but she's a great complex character.

I don't think Shaun has had meltdowns in the OR. I think the closest was when there was some kind of quarantine and he was in a sectioned off area with patients and a few other staff. The light was making a buzzing sound or something and it was too much for him after awhile.

I think Shaun deserves to be there, but he should be getting therapy to try and cut down on the number of meltdowns. I guess that would be less drama for the show though......

I like Morgan too.

[bros402]

16 hours ago, circumvent said:

Yeah, the problem is that the writers got themselves in a situation where they cannot really give the character a fair portrayal. Shaun, as written, does need therapy. As you said, at least to address his PTSD. On the other hand, Shaun, the autistic doctor, cannot exist in the real world. All the autism tropes and real difficulties in one character makes this character too far away from reality. An autistic person having meltdowns during surgery would not even be a doctor because no hospital would want to work with them, no matter how powerful the mentor might be. An autistic surgeon is 100% possible, they probably exist by the dozen everywhere, but they would be the autistic person who has learnt to manage the most difficulty moments and would not be a liability and an annoyance to everyone else. In the show, they make Shaun so special, it is infantilizing and just short of full blown inspiration porn.

Yeah - it is amazing how many tropes they have shoved into Freddie Highmore's.... 5'8" (?) frame. He should be bursting at the seams!

They did show in this episode what Shaun would be ideal at - consulting via video for surgeons. He'd be excellent at that - especially if he had no emotional attachment to the patient.

We're going to get so much inspiration porn with Lim being in a wheelchair - even if she ends up being able to walk again, she'll go through PT/OT and be SO BRAVE and SO INSPIRATIONAL!

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

So... Park wasn't willing to sacrifice his career to move with Morgan to NY? But he wanted her to sacrifice her career to stay with him? 

Honestly, I was half expected Park to say "Call them back, I interviewed and got accepted into their residency program - I was going to give notice in the morning."

[circumvent]

8 hours ago, greekmom said:

Alot of people have issues coping with stressful situations depending on the situation and a good many people with ASD have issues dealing with stressful situations, so it's not a trope.  Shaun is a brilliant doctor and deserves to be there.

Maybe trope is a strong word. Autistic people and stressful situations, and how they cope with them vary and may learn how to navigate the situation. But the writers either don't talk to autistic people or don't understand what the autistic consultants are saying, so they use the meltdown as a main feature of an autistic life. It becomes almost a caricature, in this case something so unlikely to happen, it is close to impossible. Someone who cannot deal with certain situations would not reach the position Shaun did 

I also don't think Shaun - as written - deserves to be there. If this situation were possible in real life, I would not have a problem having him as a consulting doctor but I would not want him in the OR operating me, if I knew he can crash and burn at any time. I would want someone else to hold the line  - and my organs - if he all of a sudden had to take a break.

[possibilities]

He trashed Lea's car and she still married him. The show has decided that meltdowns, even violent ones or ones that happen at mission critical moments, are okay. They also don't understand the difference between autism and PTSD. The writers are crap, basically.

I am dreading what they do with Lim's "paralysis". 

[Avabelle]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I am dreading what they do with Lim's "paralysis". 

She’ll be walking by mid season. The writers aren’t going to commit to this. 

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, Avabelle said:

She’ll be walking by mid season. The writers aren’t going to commit to this. 

Because she will fight so hard, and so full of good attitude, she will become an inspiration to all. You know, "the only disability is a bad attitude" 🤮

[possibilities]

If they resolve it immediately, because of transient swelling, that's a real thing that does happen, but they will have used the "you're paralyzed" to end the episode in an exploitative way.

If they give her a miracle due to her hard work and great attitude and/or Shaun's magicalness, also exploitative.

And if they actually keep her permanently paralyzed, I don't trust them to do a good job. 

So, lose, lose, lose.

Lim has replaced Claire as the show's character to torture and angst it up over. And they've always been mismanaging the disability issue. 

[Daff]

I so agree with the last two posts, I no longer have to wonder why I couldn’t get into this episode and found it tedious to watch. So disappointed in this once innovative show. 

[Daff]

Unless one or the other is leaving the show, I predict Park and Resnick will still be conversing well into this season. I’m still underwhelmed…they’ll find a fix for Lim, or not, but she’ll persevere. Maybe it’s time for Freddie to move on…I don’t know. 

[Calvada]

I am assuming that Shaun will have some vision of a surgical fix for LIm, something that no other surgeon in the world would think of. 

The shutdown was over, the shooter was in custody.  Why didn't they transfer him to another hospital?  They are in a large city with multiple hospitals, aren't they?  They could have the shooter at another facility in minutes.  With an ongoing active shooter incident, other hospitals would be on alert in case victims were brought to them, so they would have surgical teams at the ready.  

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, Calvada said:

I am assuming that Shaun will have some vision of a surgical fix for LIm, something that no other surgeon in the world would think of. 

The shutdown was over, the shooter was in custody.  Why didn't they transfer him to another hospital?  They are in a large city with multiple hospitals, aren't they?  They could have the shooter at another facility in minutes.  With an ongoing active shooter incident, other hospitals would be on alert in case victims were brought to them, so they would have surgical teams at the ready.  

Well that would have been a logical, simple solution. And way less dramatic.

I wonder if Lim being paralyzed will be the result of the surgical compromise they made, or the disagreement Shaun and Glassman had about a plan. Or if it was just the stabbing and non of that made a difference (to her legs anyway).

[nlkm9]

On 10/5/2022 at 3:50 PM, circumvent said:

Because she will fight so hard, and so full of good attitude, she will become an inspiration to all. You know, "the only disability is a bad attitude" 🤮

ugh. I dread this already!!

[bros402]

4 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

ugh. I dread this already!!

let the hate watch seep through you

[WinJet0819]

Shaun's breakdowns in surgery need to be addressed. This was like the third or fourth time he's done this, in a critical situation. Everything has always worked out because it's TV and they need to show a happy ending. But he's a surgeon and he needs to have it together. What if it hadn't worked out? Lim's on the table, and they don't know how where the bleeder is and time is of the essence, and he's having a mini-tantrum because somehow he sees Steve in Lim and blames himself for his death. She could have bled out and died because he's out of commission. As others have mentioned, he needs therapy to learn how to cope in high stress situations instead of shutting down.

I also must applaud Park for calling out what viewers have been saying about relationships on TV for years. Yeah, Morgan could only think of him when she thought she was going to die. That doesn't change anything. She wanted the job in New York. She put her career first, and that's not a bad thing. A near life-and-death situation shouldn't change that outlook. I yelled "Right on" when Park told her she needed to email them back. Yeah, she thought of him "for now" but that's not going to magically change who she is. Now, I just hope Park stands by what he said and doesn't change his tune due to another near death experience or an awfully convenient medical case that makes him see things different.

Edited October 10, 2022 by WinJet0819

[WinJet0819]

On 10/4/2022 at 7:29 PM, greekmom said:

Meltdowns yes but as i specifically said when push comes to shove has he had meltdowns in the operating room before this time? I don't believe so but again, I could be wrong. And the other times he has had meltdowns is when he feels that he is right and the others need to listen to him.

On 10/4/2022 at 9:11 PM, KaveDweller said:

I don't think Shaun has had meltdowns in the OR. I think the closest was when there was some kind of quarantine and he was in a sectioned off area with patients and a few other staff. The light was making a buzzing sound or something and it was too much for him after awhile.

I think Shaun deserves to be there, but he should be getting therapy to try and cut down on the number of meltdowns. I guess that would be less drama for the show though......

I like Morgan too.

Yep he had the meltdown in the ER during the quarantine episode in the second season. He also had the mini-break down while he was trying to do his first solo surgery and had to ask Lim to complete it because he wasn't authorized to do specific surgery technique that he had just realized would help the patient better. And then he had his break down during last season's fall finale when it was learned the med that could have saved a newborn baby were expired, and he smashed up the expired medicine. And those are just the three I remember.

He does need some kind of therapy so that he can cope better with high-stress situations. There's a lot of stuff he does that just come with his autism, like his terrible bedside manor or his brutal honesty. But the breakdowns can't happen especially when people's lives are on the line.

[greekmom]

6 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

Yep he had the meltdown in the ER during the quarantine episode in the second season. He also had the mini-break down while he was trying to do his first solo surgery and had to ask Lim to complete it because he wasn't authorized to do specific surgery technique that he had just realized would help the patient better. And then he had his break down during last season's fall finale when it was learned the med that could have saved a newborn baby were expired, and he smashed up the expired medicine. And those are just the three I remember.

He does need some kind of therapy so that he can cope better with high-stress situations. There's a lot of stuff he does that just come with his autism, like his terrible bedside manor or his brutal honesty. But the breakdowns can't happen especially when people's lives are on the line.

The first highlighted one was during the pandemic which we also saw Lim having issues in the OR.  The other highlighted one was not in the OR. I specifically said OR. It was in the hospital's pharmacy. 

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, greekmom said:

The first highlighted one was during the pandemic which we also saw Lim having issues in the OR.  The other highlighted one was not in the OR. I specifically said OR. It was in the hospital's pharmacy. 

The first highlighted one wasn't during the pandemic (as in Covid). It was in 2018 when the show did an episode where there was an outbreak of some rare virus that caused a quarantine. A nurse had to talk Shaun down to get him to help patients.

But as noted above, it was not in the OR. 

[WinJet0819]

13 hours ago, greekmom said:

The first highlighted one was during the pandemic which we also saw Lim having issues in the OR.  The other highlighted one was not in the OR. I specifically said OR. It was in the hospital's pharmacy. 

Rather it be in the OR or outside of it, the breakdowns have happened far too much while he's at work. If anything, it's escalated. From the ER that was locked down, to the medicine storage area, and now in the OR with a life at stake. He needs therapy so that he can cope better so he doesn't shut down. I'm surprised Lim or Andrews didn't mandate that he do that. It shouldn't be ignored just because he recovered and saved the day.