S15.E14: No Hug For You

[Emma Snyder]

Quote

The wives and husbands embark on a couples retreat, where one wife is treated to her very first prom; while there's laughter, dancing, and the promise of sex for some, there are dramatic outbursts and tears for others.

Airs Wednesday October 5th at 8:00PM EDT.

[kristen111]

Wow, Miguel getting testy.  He doesn’t want to be a photographer as he’s relaxing.  That’s a first.

[Crashcourse]

Krysten and Stacia look nice in their prom dresses.

Whoa.  I just saw Krysten's fugly black shoes.  Points deducted. 🤣

Edited October 6, 2022 by Crashcourse

[Katie111]

I think Miguel is being way too harsh and borderline scary.  If anything, he is gaslighting her, not the other way around.  (Although I think that term is way overused these days). 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Katie111

[Crashcourse]

I'm confused about the whole Lindy and Miguel incident.

Oh well, at least Alexis has her boobs covered in the pink dress.

[Kiss my mutt]

From the conversation we overheard, Miguel just wanted to shit on Lindy’s excitement. For once, I don’t think she was getting too worked up. Definitely scary stuff since Lindy actually started to concede which will happen more with him over time. I had a visceral reaction to how he spoke to her. 
 

Alexis gets on my last nerve. She’s obnoxious, cocky and way too enamored with herself. She always looks so tacky. 
 

I’m hoping those were Krysten’s back up shoes. I saw some heels on the ground next to her. 
 

The sex sling scene was pretty funny! 

[mythoughtis]

What is this whole Krysten/Mitch conversation in the car? Is this the day after the pool party or have they not seen each other for a few days? 
Alexis, I don’t need to hear about Justin having problems taking your bra off.  Nor do I need to see him trying to put your shoes on for you.  And your boobs look ready to fall out. 

I guess  Krysten’s black  shoes go with her black bra peeking out of her orange dress.  
Miguel is ruining the Prom … and he is not marriage material if he gets that perturbed over a minor argument.  Is Lindy supposed to put up with only doing what he wants when he wants and never get annoyed? He’s much more pissy about it than it deserved 

Edited October 6, 2022 by mythoughtis

[kristen111]

Miguel is realizing what most of us think.  Lindy has a short attention span.  He’s going back n forth with his feelings.  She’s adorable, or can I take this everyday.

Alexis with her “ look at me” dresses.  She’s over the top about how she looks and is getting annoying.  She thinks she’s God’s gift and he should be thrilled to have her.  She’s just in love with herself.

While after the archery, Krysten’s nose on one side only was beet red.

Statia and what’s his name continue to be cool, calm and collected.

So Lindy feels like she’s filtering herself?  That means she knows there’s more to her craziness.

Edited October 6, 2022 by kristen111

[Katie111]

I think Miguel’s poetry is annoying to Lindy and she doesn’t want to listen to it.  I don’t blame her.  I think she finds a lot of his conversation boring so she tried to steer it somewhere else.  And he is just like “you will listen to me whenever I speak!”.  Even if u don’t give a shit what he is talking about.   
 

But I also think she has ADHD.  

Edited October 6, 2022 by Katie111

[mythoughtis]

I agree with Justin… 8 weeks isn’t really enough time to know if you want to be married.  It is probably enough time to know if it’s not working at all.  Alexis, of course chose not to listen to what he was trying to say.  

[Crashcourse]

I cannot stand Alexis.

[Kiss my mutt]

Miguel is so hot and cold, exacting and withholding. Lindy is a lot, but I can relate to how she’s feeling.  

[Crashcourse]

Lindy would make anyone go hot and cold and blow their mind.  I think she needs therapy. 

I also think Miguel thinks she's crazy and he's afraid of her. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Crashcourse

[kristen111]

Isn’t it kind of soon for sex toys? 

[Kiss my mutt]

1 minute ago, kristen111 said:

Isn’t it kind of soon for sex toys? 

In my world, yes! Lol

Krysten was so funny giving that impression of Mitch and I’m glad he was a good sport about it and even enjoyed it. She seems like she’d be fun to hang out with.

[kristen111]

3 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

In my world, yes! Lol

Krysten was so funny giving that impression of Mitch and I’m glad he was a good sport about it and even enjoyed it. She seems like she’d be fun to hang out with.

When there is love, imo, no need for sex toys yet.

I really think If Krysten continues to accept Mitch the way he is and laugh things off and holds her ground, there’s a chance for them.  They really seem to be enjoying themselves.  Things don’t have to be perfect everyday.  Marriage is a lot of work and understanding.  Days when you want to throw in the towel and days when you can’t live without each other.

[Racj82]

12 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

Isn’t it kind of soon for sex toys? 

There is no such thing. If it's something you enjoy sharing, it is what it is. Some women, as I've heard or been told, can't even reach orgasm without them. That may actually be a mental block but it's a real thing.

Lindy and Miguel are not terrible. There are multiple issues at play imo.

Your spouse want to feel heard. I don't think Miguel always feels that and it's manifesting itself in shitty ways.

Lindy isn't awful but can be annoying for some at times. I can see her being very agitating after a while.

But, Miguel needs to learn how to express himself without sounding like a parent.

Lindy needs to just take it in, express herself but not freak out. Also, don't apologize if you don't really know what's going on.

Also Miguel, time and place. At Lindy's prom where you wanted to give her a special night? My God man, it wasn't that serious.

[mythoughtis]

Why is Miguel still complaining about a minor photo argument from two days ago?  I’d walk away from him the rest of the night. He’s just making her miserable for no reason 

[Madding crowd]

Miguel was creepy tonight. I didn’t see Lindy do anything outrageous. He reminded me of a boyfriend I had years ago; every time I was excited about something special going on he started a fight so I wouldn’t enjoy myself. It took me awhile to figure out what was happening. The prom was supposed to be a special night for Lindy. I still like Nate and Stacia and still can’t stand Alexis ( although she looked great at prom).

[Katie111]

Alexis actually looks good on the Afterparty.  She’s covered up for a change. 

[endure]

OMG did Miguel go off his meds or WTF?  

[mythoughtis]

2 minutes ago, endure said:

OMG did Miguel go off his meds or WTF?  

For the entire weekend, it appears 

[Racj82]

11 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Why is Miguel still complaining about a minor photo argument from two days ago?  I’d walk away from him the rest of the night. He’s just making her miserable for no reason 

As with most things, it's not just about the photo anymore.

I think he wants her to express herself but not be over th top. But, that's Lindy. He's to figure out if he can actually deal or not.

[endure]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

I'm confused about the whole Lindy and Miguel incident.

Oh well, at least Alexis has her boobs covered in the pink dress.

Oh yeah but then she has to accuse what's his name (her husband) of looking at them, such a narcissist.

[Adeejay]

 I think Miguel is getting nervous because D-day is fast approaching.  He probably doesn’t think she is his person and is looking for a way out.  When Lindy asked him to take her picture, her tone may have been demanding, but it most certainly didn’t merit that response.  He sounded so sinister when he kept repeating, “don’t expect me to be your personal photographer.”  If I were Lindy, I would run for the hills. 

Alexis should be ashamed of herself for laughing when Nate accused her of destroying Morgan and Binh's marriage, because it's not funny.

[endure]

19 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

As with most things, it's not just about the photo anymore.

I think he wants her to express herself but not be over th top. But, that's Lindy. He's to figure out if he can actually deal or not.

It's not Lindy imo it's all on him, he's being a total asshole.  

[mythoughtis]

Yet another guest on the Afterparty.  Alexis finally wore something that covered her, and I liked her hairstyle.  
 

Edited October 6, 2022 by mythoughtis

[Spectator]

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

Also Miguel, time and place. At Lindy's prom where you wanted to give her a special night? My God man, it wasn't that serious.

This! That’s all I kept thinking to myself…instead of dancing with Lindy at her one and only prom, Miguel was rehashing and dissecting that argument over and over again until he broke her down to a puddle of apologetic mud. Jeez dude, just put your gripes aside for one night. They were just talking in circles anyway. 

[ECM1231]

I just had to put the DVR on pause to say that Miguel scares me. He wants a Stepford wife... One that doesn't show any emotion or raise one's voice. I could never be married to someone like him. He seems very cold at times. I'm a person who raises my voice when I get upset. I do think that Lindy's only crime was misreading the room.  She was all dressed up and excited for her prom. She felt pretty and wanted Miguel to take a nice photo of her. She didn't realize that he was too "exhausted" to get up and take a photo.

And why was he so tired anyway? He didn't drive there. None of the husbands did,, which I found odd.

Lindy is going to have to walk on eggshells around Miguel, not to upset him. Good luck with that!

[Racj82]

40 minutes ago, endure said:

It's not Lindy imo it's all on him, he's being a total asshole.  

Disagree. It's not that she's being terrible or doing anything on purpose. But, she is doing things that her spouse doesn't like but she's generally in her own world so she doesn’t even notice it while it's happening.

Don't get me wrong. Miguel was being an asshole with how he approached it. But, feeling some type of way about how your talked to or ignored is not crazy or wrong. But, he's literally complaining about tone while having a real shitty and rude tone himself.

3 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

I just had to put the DVR on pause to say that Miguel scares me. He wants a Stepford wife... One that doesn't show any emotion or raise one's voice. I could never be married to someone like him. He seems very cold at times. I'm a person who raises my voice when I get upset. I do think that Lindy's only crime was misreading the room.  She was all dressed up and excited for her prom. She felt pretty and wanted Miguel to take a nice photo of her. She didn't realize that he was too "exhausted" to get up and take a photo.

And why was he so tired anyway? He didn't drive there. None of the husbands did,, which I found odd.

Lindy is going to have to walk on eggshells around Miguel, not to upset him. Good luck with that!

He said on the show he was already tired (and probably cranky) from work that week.

People can tired for a bunch of different reasons.

[Spectator]

I have to give props to Stacia for recognizing that Lindy and Miguel were going through something and interrupted their in-bed chat to break up the tension. And nothing breaks up the tension like the gift of a sex swing. Complete with a hands on lesson! Quite the gift! Lol. She was right though - they were talking in circles and both were just getting more and more frustrated and resolving nothing. Stacia lightened the mood brilliantly. It was exactly what the doctor ordered. 

[Yeah No]

Well, not that anyone reads my posts but so far I've been prophesizing everything that's happening between Miguel and Lindy.  They are a classic personality type clash between an INFP (Lindy) and an INTJ (Miguel).  Didn't I say last week that we were going to start to see an ugly side of Miguel and that they were starting to enter into a death spiral?  Not to toot my own horn but if I don't who will, LOL? 😉 I predicted it to the letter.  I don't really blame Lindy.  This is who she is.  INFPs are the classic feeling-perceptive types that can seem almost ADD because in the middle of a deep conversation they'll go "Oh, look, a bird!"  In fact, that was one of the sayings the personality type world had for them.  The "Oh look, a bird" types.  Meaning they are easily distracted by everything going on around them and want to call attention to it.  Like the bunny and everything else she saw and mentioned.  OK, she's a bit extreme but a man with more tolerance for that would see it as part of her charm and endearing.  It doesn't mean she's not listening to him.  If he can't understand that he doesn't get her and isn't really a good match for her. 

It is true that INFPs annoy the crap out of INTJs for just the reasons we're seeing here.  She's flighty, emotional, easily distracted.  But he is too self absorbed, too rational, inward, intense and too unable to understand that the way she is is not a reason to get insulted.  He's taking everything personally like an INTJ under extreme stress.  Like she's not caring about what he wants.  Well sorry she is but he just can't understand it because emotions are not his wheelhouse.  It's too much for him.  He can't handle her emotionality.  In moments of extreme stress he will react like a total prick about it and say hurtful things she doesn't deserve just like we saw in this episode.  I knew this was going to happen.  I have seen it so many times before I can call it.  The fact that he realized it later and was apologetic shows that there is some hope for him but I'm not sure I trust him to be honest.

And I'm not buying the stuff about him being low energy because of work.  He didn't exactly seem low energy at that dodgeball game.  I think its mostly psychological because he's freaking that decision day is coming and he's realizing that there's a lot about Lindy that he has difficulty living with.  And I think the same is true for her.  Those tears she shed were pent up from weeks of walking on eggshells.  It's really tragic to watch this unfold up close because these two types are really attracted to what makes the other person so different from them, but it's the completely diametrically opposed way of approaching life they have that fundamentally clashes.  Their languages are completely different.  An INFPs language is the language of emotions and feeling while the INTJ's language is one of rational thinking.

An INTJ's weakest personality function is feeling while an INFP's dominant function is feeling.  The two are like oil and water together.  They admire what the other has that they don't and so are attracted to it, but in the end the two fundamentally clash in the way they approach just about everything.  Feeling types tend to be "people people" while INTJs are primarily not and like to remain for the most part on their own.  They generally aren't all that comfortable in animated social situations like this retreat except with a few close friends who don't annoy them in any way and who they feel comfortable around.   They also are not at all able to let go and be spontaneous in the moment.  They don't like their routine disturbed and too many demands placed on them to be flexible about anything.  Honestly at times I have felt that INTJs can be "sticks in the mud".  They want everything settled and decided and not much left open ended to be decided just whenever.  It's hard for them to let their hair down and just go with the flow as their environment changes.  Meanwhile Lindy loves to live with things open ended, flexible and subject to change at any given moment.  She loves letting herself go with the flow and enjoys the process of life, not just the destination.  Expressing her emotions is at the core of who she is.  If she feels like her partner can't accept that, it's a rejection to her very core.  It would be like her getting upset that he's "too rational" and acting like it's "game over" on that alone.  But Lindy, ever the idealistic optimist, is accepting of that even if she has to martyr her own happiness in the process.  Only she did show enough backbone in this episode for me to feel like there's also hope for her in that she won't let it come to that.  At least I hope not!

Anyway, those are just some more thoughts.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Yeah No

[After7Only]

I really wish they had a therapist at the couples retreat to help navigate that lindy/Miguel fight.   Both had valid concerns  But it really saddened me to see how quickly Lindy jumps to “I’m a piece of sh!t” In response to criticism from Miguel.  

[Yeah No]

1 minute ago, After7Only said:

I really wish they had a therapist at the couples retreat to help navigate that lindy/Miguel fight.   Both had valid concerns  But it really saddened me to see how quickly Lindy jumps to “I’m a piece of sh!t” In response to criticism from Miguel.  

I know, it bothered me that she blamed herself for the situation, but I did feel a little better when she later said she knew she didn't do anything wrong.  And I don't think she did anything wrong, despite the way he acted about it.  He doesn't get her.  And she is trying like heck to get him but I don't know that he's really capable of getting her and I even wonder if she will ever be able to get him.  They might always be enigmas to each other.  It would suck to live in a relationship like that.  They both need someone that won't clash with them at their core. 

[Spectator]

Interesting, Miguel said he wanted Lindy to be able to read the room when he was tired and thus she should not have asked him to take pictures of her, yet when they were on the carriage ride and she was clearly enjoying the scenery (the horses, the bunnies, etc.), he completely failed to recognize that she was enjoying the scenery, in other words he failed to “read the room” and demanded that she ignore the scenery and focus on him while he rapid-fire recited his rap-like  poetry to her. I guess in Miguel’s world, he is in control of “the room” at all times and Lindy is expected to accommodate. He’s tired, she’s excited…”the room” is tired. He’s reciting poetry and she’s enjoying the scenery, “the room” is reciting poetry.

For a guy who talked so much about red flags with Lindy (and granted there are few!), his controlling, selfish behavior is quite a red flag of its own. As is his tendency to stamp every single argument with a proclamation that her supposedly utterly unacceptable behavior might force him to end the relationship. That is just plain toxic. 
 

[Racj82]

46 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

And I'm not buying the stuff about him being low energy because of work.  He didn't exactly seem low energy at that dodgeball game. 

These things happened on two different days. He could be tired when he got there from the week but feel better after a little rest and fun. Like any other person.

[Yeah No]

Just now, Racj82 said:

These things happened on two different days. He could be tired when he got there from the week but feel better after a little rest and fun. Like any other person.

But I'm pretty sure he kept mentioning it and acting out supposedly on the premise that he was not in a good frame of mind and tired from work that whole week.  It wasn't just on that one day that he mentioned it.  And what was his excuse toward the end of the episode when he acted out in a similar fashion again?  If he was supposedly better rested and felt better then what was the excuse on later days?

[Racj82]

39 minutes ago, After7Only said:

I really wish they had a therapist at the couples retreat to help navigate that lindy/Miguel fight.   Both had valid concerns  But it really saddened me to see how quickly Lindy jumps to “I’m a piece of sh!t” In response to criticism from Miguel.  

I wonder if, I can't remember if she addressed this early, that she has had other boyfriends deem her as too much and she still internalized it.

She shouldn't have been made to feel that but I still don't like how she expects her mate to regulate her heightened emotions for her. Most people would crack under that pressure. There is a middle ground there. I don't if she'll find it with Miguel though. Their temperaments might not be a match together.

Just now, Yeah No said:

But I'm pretty sure he kept mentioning it and acting out supposedly on the premise that he was not in a good frame of mind and tired from work that whole week.  It wasn't just on that one day that he mentioned it.  And what was his excuse toward the end of the episode when he acted out in a similar fashion again?  If he was supposedly better rested and felt better then what was the excuse on later days?

He was talking how he over reacted earlier, in the bedroom, because he was tired.

But, he is aggravated in the moment from what we saw on screen later on which were two different issues.

He snapped on the first, in theory, because he was tired but also just didnt like her tone.

But, its not like he let it go and other things built upon it.

It doesn't matter if he was tired or not. He had issues he wanted to address. He should of done it better way. It came off as berating after a while.

[Yeah No]

9 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

He was talking how he over reacted earlier, in the bedroom, because he was tired.

But, he is aggravated in the moment from what we saw on screen later on which were two different issues.

He snapped on the first, in theory, because he was tired but also just didnt like her tone.

But, its not like he let it go and other things built upon it.

It doesn't matter if he was tired or not. He had issues he wanted to address. He should of done it better way. It came off as berating after a while.

The point remains that he was still talking about being tired and not having his usual energy level at the gathering well after the first time he mentioned it.  He wasn't talking about the past, but the entire time he was there.  It didn't just disappear after a night of rest.  And then he started in on her again toward the end of the episode and only later apologized.  And I'm pretty sure he made the same excuse about being low energy and not his usual self about the second later incident too.  

[Racj82]

20 hours ago, Spectator said:

Interesting, Miguel said he wanted Lindy to be able to read the room when he was tired and thus she should not have asked him to take pictures of her, yet when they were on the carriage ride and she was clearly enjoying the scenery (the horses, the bunnies, etc.), he completely failed to recognize that she was enjoying the scenery, in other words he failed to “read the room” and demanded that she ignore the scenery and focus on him while he rapid-fire recited his rap-like  poetry to her. I guess in Miguel’s world, he is in control of “the room” at all times and Lindy is expected to accommodate. He’s tired, she’s excited…”the room” is tired. He’s reciting poetry and she’s enjoying the scenery, “the room” is reciting poetry.

For a guy who talked so much about red flags with Lindy (and granted there are few!), his controlling, selfish behavior is quite a red flag of its own. As is his tendency to stamp every single argument with a proclamation that her supposedly utterly unacceptable behavior might force him to end the relationship. That is just plain toxic. 
 

I see both sides of the issue.

I think they are both bringing in previous relationship baggage that's are guiding their current reactions. I think Lindy has been left by people before for in her words being herself so this is constant fear now.

Ive heard Miguel talking about him not speaking up in relationships and not being heard. So, in my opinion, he is overcorrecting.

They definitely needed some couple therapy this week. I get the experts not being there every single week but one of them should be able to be called in a respond/help inbetween visits. They might of even been able to save their precious success rate with being a little more hands on.

I think more needs to be said about how quickly and overly apologetic Krysten was to Mitch. I don't believe she had anything to apologize for and she gave Mitch an in to speak up earlier. He didn't have to be blindsided. But, it was weird watching the cam footage after the pool party. That backbone Krysten got in public disappeared in private.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Racj82

[mythoughtis]

Miguel berated Lindy on at least  these occasions at the retreat: 

in the room before the Prom

At the prom

in the room after the prom( interrupted by Nate and Stacia) 

the next day on the carriage ride outing 

Before  dinner on the balcony 

in the bedroom or bathroom ( filmed through the door) 

the next day at the dodge ball game because she aimed at him ( like any spouse would in the spirit of the game) 

Nothing she did deserved the amount of grief he was giving her 

Edited October 6, 2022 by mythoughtis

[shok]

8 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Krysten was so funny giving that impression of Mitch and I’m glad he was a good sport about it and even enjoyed it. She seems like she’d be fun to hang out with.

So it was funny and just fine for Krysten to do a whole shpeil mocking and criticizing Mitch but one comment from him about finding her more attractive without makeup was enough for her and her buddies to have nervous breakdowns over?

[cinsays]

37 minutes ago, shok said:

So it was funny and just fine for Krysten to do a whole shpeil mocking and criticizing Mitch but one comment from him about finding her more attractive without makeup was enough for her and her buddies to have nervous breakdowns over?

But Krysten wasn't being serious - she was joking about his personality and thoughts and Mitch saw it for what it was and laughed with her.  

I still contend that the real thing about the conversation Mitch had with Krysten's sister that got her so annoyed with him was not totally that he wanted to get her to stop using makeup.  He was given a chance to talk to her sister to get to know more about Krysten, what she likes, what he could do to make her happy and he instead chose to take the time to deal with what he would like her to do to make him happy.

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, Spectator said:

Interesting, Miguel said he wanted Lindy to be able to read the room when he was tired and thus she should not have asked him to take pictures of her, yet when they were on the carriage ride and she was clearly enjoying the scenery (the horses, the bunnies, etc.), he completely failed to recognize that she was enjoying the scenery, in other words he failed to “read the room” and demanded that she ignore the scenery and focus on him while he rapid-fire recited his rap-like  poetry to her. I guess in Miguel’s world, he is in control of “the room” at all times and Lindy is expected to accommodate. He’s tired, she’s excited…”the room” is tired. He’s reciting poetry and she’s enjoying the scenery, “the room” is reciting poetry.

For a guy who talked so much about red flags with Lindy (and granted there are few!), his controlling, selfish behavior is quite a red flag of its own. As is his tendency to stamp every single argument with a proclamation that her supposedly utterly unacceptable behavior might force him to end the relationship. That is just plain toxic. 
 

Bingo, you hit the nail on the head!  It's a double standard and reading the room only works in one direction, for her to read HIS room, not the other way around.  Which pisses me off because it betrays him to be self serving and perhaps even misogynistic.  In her way she pointed the double standard out to him later in the episode.  He expects her to be a mind reader, meanwhile he gives her no way of reading him successfully.  He has to give her the code book to decipher his puzzle!  She was so right when she said she felt "damned if she did and damned if she didn't"!  I can remember being in "guessing game" relationships with men in my past where no matter which way you guessed it was inevitably wrong and you got called on the carpet for it.  No way.  Lindy's quirky and all that but she deserves much better than that!  

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, kristen111 said:

When there is love, imo, no need for sex toys yet.

9 hours ago, Racj82 said:

There is no such thing. If it's something you enjoy sharing, it is what it is.

Agreed, @Racj82. Sex toys aren’t a crutch for people who aren’t in love; they’re an addition to peoples’ sex lives that lots of people use, in love and otherwise. There are toys designed for men, women and couples. One’s person’s sex life isn’t better than another’s because they don’t use toys.

10 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I guess  Krysten’s black  shoes go with her black bra peeking out of her orange dress.  

That was driving me nuts. I liked the dress itself (and Alexis’s, although I’d veto it if I couldn’t wear a bra, which … is not a choice Alexis makes) - I look great in orange and have a few orange items of clothing, including an orange dress. But the bra was bugging the hell out of me.

7 hours ago, Spectator said:

She was right though - they were talking in circles and both were just getting more and more frustrated and resolving nothing.

I haven’t finished the episode yet but I kept thinking this about their fight and thought they needed to table it and come back to it (this is why I don’t believe “never go to bed angry” is useful).

[LakeGal]

I think Miguel didn't want to be on the retreat.  Maybe there was a big Dungeons and Dragons tournament he was missing.  But he acted like he wanted to be anywhere else.  He was taking it out on Lindy that he was stuck at this place.

We thought it was a strange dynamic between Miguel and Lindy.  We talked that it felt like we were watching a father argue with his teenage daughter.  It really did appear that way.  Lindy is childlike at times.  Miguel wants to be in charge of "the room".  It was creepy to think they are having sex.  Everything is so uneven with their relationship.  Miguel is a bit scary when you feel there is something scary just under the surface with him.  

I still can't stand Alexis.

[Empress1]

5 minutes ago, LakeGal said:

Lindy is childlike at times.

She is - I noticed that in particular during that fight. She started out whining about the picture, don’t take a selfie, use this filter … she did sound like a teenager. I assume it’s her sheltered-ness coming through. It irks me though.

[kristen111]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Well, not that anyone reads my posts but so far I've been prophesizing everything that's happening between Miguel and Lindy.  They are a classic personality type clash between an INFP (Lindy) and an INTJ (Miguel).  Didn't I say last week that we were going to start to see an ugly side of Miguel and that they were starting to enter into a death spiral?  Not to toot my own horn but if I don't who will, LOL? 😉 I predicted it to the letter.  I don't really blame Lindy.  This is who she is.  INFPs are the classic feeling-perceptive types that can seem almost ADD because in the middle of a deep conversation they'll go "Oh, look, a bird!"  In fact, that was one of the sayings the personality type world had for them.  The "Oh look, a bird" types.  Meaning they are easily distracted by everything going on around them and want to call attention to it.  Like the bunny and everything else she saw and mentioned.  OK, she's a bit extreme but a man with more tolerance for that would see it as part of her charm and endearing.  It doesn't mean she's not listening to him.  If he can't understand that he doesn't get her and isn't really a good match for her. 

It is true that INFPs annoy the crap out of INTJs for just the reasons we're seeing here.  She's flighty, emotional, easily distracted.  But he is too self absorbed, too rational, inward, intense and too unable to understand that the way she is is not a reason to get insulted.  He's taking everything personally like an INTJ under extreme stress.  Like she's not caring about what he wants.  Well sorry she is but he just can't understand it because emotions are not his wheelhouse.  It's too much for him.  He can't handle her emotionality.  In moments of extreme stress he will react like a total prick about it and say hurtful things she doesn't deserve just like we saw in this episode.  I knew this was going to happen.  I have seen it so many times before I can call it.  The fact that he realized it later and was apologetic shows that there is some hope for him but I'm not sure I trust him to be honest.

And I'm not buying the stuff about him being low energy because of work.  He didn't exactly seem low energy at that dodgeball game.  I think its mostly psychological because he's freaking that decision day is coming and he's realizing that there's a lot about Lindy that he has difficulty living with.  And I think the same is true for her.  Those tears she shed were pent up from weeks of walking on eggshells.  It's really tragic to watch this unfold up close because these two types are really attracted to what makes the other person so different from them, but it's the completely diametrically opposed way of approaching life they have that fundamentally clashes.  Their languages are completely different.  An INFPs language is the language of emotions and feeling while the INTJ's language is one of rational thinking.

An INTJ's weakest personality function is feeling while an INFP's dominant function is feeling.  The two are like oil and water together.  They admire what the other has that they don't and so are attracted to it, but in the end the two fundamentally clash in the way they approach just about everything.  Feeling types tend to be "people people" while INTJs are primarily not and like to remain for the most part on their own.  They generally aren't all that comfortable in animated social situations like this retreat except with a few close friends who don't annoy them in any way and who they feel comfortable around.   They also are not at all able to let go and be spontaneous in the moment.  They don't like their routine disturbed and too many demands placed on them to be flexible about anything.  Honestly at times I have felt that INTJs can be "sticks in the mud".  They want everything settled and decided and not much left open ended to be decided just whenever.  It's hard for them to let their hair down and just go with the flow as their environment changes.  Meanwhile Lindy loves to live with things open ended, flexible and subject to change at any given moment.  She loves letting herself go with the flow and enjoys the process of life, not just the destination.  Expressing her emotions is at the core of who she is.  If she feels like her partner can't accept that, it's a rejection to her very core.  It would be like her getting upset that he's "too rational" and acting like it's "game over" on that alone.  But Lindy, ever the idealistic optimist, is accepting of that even if she has to martyr her own happiness in the process.  Only she did show enough backbone in this episode for me to feel like there's also hope for her in that she won't let it come to that.  At least I hope not!

Anyway, those are just some more thoughts.

Well, I read and like your posts as they are insightful.  Besides, you have the sheepskins for councelling marriages and understand what’s going on, which is a plus.

[Yeah No]

1 minute ago, kristen111 said:

Well, I read and like your posts as they are insightful.  Besides, you have the sheepskins for councelling marriages and understand what’s going on, which is a plus.

Aww, thank you, that's very kind of you.  I think you have all that and more without any sheepskin and I always appreciate your posts too!  🤗

[kristen111]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Agreed, @Racj82. Sex toys aren’t a crutch for people who aren’t in love; they’re an addition to peoples’ sex lives that lots of people use, in love and otherwise. There are toys designed for men, women and couples. One’s person’s sex life isn’t better than another’s because they don’t use toys.

Being married forever, I know all this.  Seems to me, they find the sex toys at this point more of a joke as they are laughing their asses off.  These people don’t even know each other yet.