S02.E05: The Unreliable Narrator

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

During a citywide blackout, Allison and Patty head to city hall to find Gertrude's death certificate; the rest of the gang camps out in Bev's; someone steals Kevin's generator, and he's going to solve the case.

Airing on AMC+ 2022.09.12

Original network air date 2022.09.19

[Harvey]

Oh wow. I really felt the scene where Neil hit the wall.

[Cranberry]

It's really interesting how everyone is slowly turning against Kevin in sitcom world. They all laughed at Allison's joke at his expense ("Kevin, your father's a priest and your mother's a nun. Think about it. Your whole life was based on a mistake"), which is something they never would have done in season one. They were all genuinely annoyed that Kevin had caused the blackout and stolen the hearing aid, and Neil looked like he was going to punch Kevin for accusing him of stealing (before he went outside and punched the wall instead). Sam even asked for an apology, although he struggled to get the words out. We're getting closer and closer to the sitcom world merging with the real world, I think.

Not sure what to think of Neil and Diane. That seems dangerous for both of them.

I still can't help but feel like the show is setting up Allison and Patty. Allison went and kissed Sam, then burst into tears, right after she found out Patty was moving in with Tammy. That's so similar to how Patty went and kissed Tammy right after she had that moment with Alison in the bathtub in season one. If that wasn't an intentional parallel, I'm not sure how we were supposed to take that final scene.

Oh, and apparently Kevin tracks Allison's phone, which... yikes.

[Spartan Girl]

Wow, Sam actually realized he was no better than Kevin when Kevin’s crappy marriage advice turned out to be the same schtick he fed Allison last season. Good for him for owning up to it. Nice of him to apologize to Allison, but he owes Jenn an apology too.

I think Neil might actually kill Kevin. Or maybe everyone will run Kevin out of town and Allison won’t have to fake her death after all. Wouldn’t that be a twist…

Edited September 12, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Avabelle]

The show is really losing me. I enjoy the Neil stuff and Tammys stuff with Neil but the Alison stuff is just dragging. I don’t fully understand the faking her own death plot and it’s quickly become over half of every episode. I like all the other characters and their interactions with Kevin. Alison is just draining.

I also hate the Tammy/Alison development. To me it feels like it came out of nowhere. The actresses don’t have a romantic chemistry and it just feels like the usual tv trope of not allowing two friends to just stay friends.

[Cranberry]

I think the usual TV trope is that the best friends are straight. I can name a ton of shows starring two female best friends who don't fall for each other and very few where they do (actually, I'm not sure I can name any where they do. Harley Quinn, I guess?). Even in shows where one of the leads is queer (like Dead To Me, The Bold Type, And Just Like That), she does not end up with one of the other leads, but with a side or recurring character.

I find that Patty and Tammy are the ones without chemistry... that relationship has never made sense to me.

[Harvey]

22 hours ago, Avabelle said:

The show is really losing me. I enjoy the Neil stuff and Tammys stuff with Neil but the Alison stuff is just dragging. I don’t fully understand the faking her own death plot and it’s quickly become over half of every episode.

The problem is, the plot is just too meandering. We have what, 3 episodes left? We should have seen an extremely dark and abusive Kevin outside of sitcom world by now and be rooting for Allison to get away from his torture at any cost - that is what should happen and I don't understand why the show refuses to go there. The show continues to play coy with the approach that sure Kevin is kind of a jerk but really not that bad, and that worked for the first season but by now it's just boring.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Harvey

[Cranberry]

Apparently they didn't get word this was the final season until they only had time to rewrite the final three episodes. We should start to see major progression starting with the next one.

[Aileen]

16 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Apparently they didn't get word this was the final season until they only had time to rewrite the final three episodes. We should start to see major progression starting with the next one.

That’s really surprising since, when they announced the renewal, they also said it was the final season. 

[Cranberry]

The renewal was announced on August 27, 2021, and the fact that it was the final season was announced on November 30, 2021. I don't have a citation for the rewriting tidbit, though; that seems to be one of those "common knowledge" things over on Tumblr (maybe it's from one of the podcast interviews the showrunner did, or something). If I find the source, I'll add it.

[Aileen]

11 hours ago, Cranberry said:

The renewal was announced on August 27, 2021, and the fact that it was the final season was announced on November 30, 2021. I don't have a citation for the rewriting tidbit, though; that seems to be one of those "common knowledge" things over on Tumblr (maybe it's from one of the podcast interviews the showrunner did, or something). If I find the source, I'll add it.

Ahh...sorry. I must not have heard the renewal announcement until later on then. 

Any thoughts on the title of this episode? I know people have been questioning whether Alison is an unreliable narrator on message boards...I had hoped there would be some reference to the episode title.

This is also the second episode in a row where we've had more dimly lit sitcom scenes and we've got Kevin's people slowly turning on him or seeing his faults. I really hope that we do see a DramaKevin before the end of this series.

[Aileen]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:53 AM, Cranberry said:

I still can't help but feel like the show is setting up Allison and Patty. Allison went and kissed Sam, then burst into tears, right after she found out Patty was moving in with Tammy. That's so similar to how Patty went and kissed Tammy right after she had that moment with Alison in the bathtub in season one. If that wasn't an intentional parallel, I'm not sure how we were supposed to take that final scene.

I took it as either she realized that this was a man in front of her who was here for her in a way she'd always wanted OR that this was a man in front of her who was here for her and now she was faking her own death and couldn't experience what she'd always wanted. It seemed to me like the kiss was a reaction to him saying he'd help her more than the Patty situation.

[Broderbits]

On 9/14/2022 at 11:48 AM, Aileen said:

Any thoughts on the title of this episode? I know people have been questioning whether Alison is an unreliable narrator on message boards...I had hoped there would be some reference to the episode title.

I think Kevin is the biggest "unreliable narrator" on the show: he's always telling the others how great he is, how everything he does is brilliant, how people think he's fantastic. When the show first started, his inner circle agreed with him; now they're beginning to see the real, non-sitcom, Kevin. I'm hoping that by the series' end he's all alone.

[Starchild]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:53 PM, Cranberry said:

Not sure what to think of Neil and Diane. That seems dangerous for both of them.

You just know that if Kevin found out, he'd be the type to tell Chuck with the sawed-off.

On 9/12/2022 at 6:47 PM, Cranberry said:

I find that Patty and Tammy are the ones without chemistry... that relationship has never made sense to me.

That puzzled me tonight. Last week we saw Tammy view CCTV video of Patty being sketchy in Vermont. Makes sense that she'd need time and distance to figure out what to do next. But she asks Patty to move in? What?!

Is she trying to ignore evidence of criminal activity in someone she cares about? Or is she trying to get closer in order to figure out what's going on? Maybe both?

[TiffanyNichelle]

Just as the color in the sitcom world is starting to fade a little, everyone else there is starting to get noticably sick of Kevin in that world. Allison being able to score so many jokes at his expense, everyone calling him out in the end and Diane hiding the generator, I love it. It also makes me wonder if by the end of the show if Allison doesn't leave will Kevin now be the one stuck in a sitcom where he's the killjoy?

I didn't see the Neil/Diane hook up coming last week but after he stood up for her at the liquor store I knew it was only a matter of time. But the comment about Chuck's gun and based on the previews for the next episode they both need to be very careful.

I really want to know what is up with Tammy. Is she ignoring the footage and is now trying to cover for Patty? Did she send the cops to keep an eye on her?

On 9/12/2022 at 12:53 PM, Cranberry said:

Oh, and apparently Kevin tracks Allison's phone, which... yikes.

I wonder if he started doing that after the incident with the car when he reported it stolen because she didn't answer the phone.

[possibilities]

I was also puzzled by Tammy asking Patty to move in. Either she's angling to marry her so she doesn't have to testify against her, or she's running a scam to get more info? I hate that Patty is going to do this-- she owns her own home, and she's only been with Tammy a short time. It just seems really reckless.

[bigmag]

Did Kevin say that he was in charge of the fireworks for the 4th of July?  If so, why are they all wearing jackets? He caused the power outage by trying out the fireworks but surely they wouldn't be preparing so far in advance.

[Suzysite]

8 hours ago, bigmag said:

Did Kevin say that he was in charge of the fireworks for the 4th of July?  If so, why are they all wearing jackets? He caused the power outage by trying out the fireworks but surely they wouldn't be preparing so far in advance.

The cops said it was February when the ladies asked to roll down the window.

[seacliffsal]

I am a bit relieved that the show ends with this season as that may now be the only reason I will stay with the show to the bitter end.

I like the changing relationship with Neil (both with Kevin and Diane), but the rest of the storylines don't make a lot of sense to me.  Especially Patty and Tammy.

Always like Rachel Datch and thought the building they used for the city hall was beautiful.

[bigmag]

I really like Patty but I'm having a hard time figuring out her character.  She always seems like such a sad sack, but the interior of her house/duplex looks really nice (although it's hard to see her with a whole wall of books - she's never struck me as very well read), and she owns her own salon, although we never see her or anyone else working, at least after the drug selling business in the first season shut down. Her circumstances make it seem like she has money or a good income from somewhere, but that doesn't seem to fit with her character. Oh well - I like Patty, hate Tammy, wish Allison would just get her act together and move on. Counting down.....

[BusyOctober]

At this point I want everyone to fake their deaths and get the hell out of Massachusetts.   Every character is the worst caricature of blue collar “Massholes”.  I hate them all.  They are all flawed, and there really is no protagonist.  Unless we want to count the network Exec who pulled the plug at season 2.  You, Sir or Madam, are my hero.

[Broderbits]

13 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

They are all flawed, and there really is no protagonist.  Unless we want to count the network Exec who pulled the plug at season 2.  

I really believe the main point of this show was just to stick it to the "regular guy is King" sitcoms and expose them for the misogynistic fantasies they are. I agree that 2 seasons are sufficient, but I've enjoyed watching.

[qtpye]

On 9/14/2022 at 12:16 AM, Cranberry said:

The renewal was announced on August 27, 2021, and the fact that it was the final season was announced on November 30, 2021. I don't have a citation for the rewriting tidbit, though; that seems to be one of those "common knowledge" things over on Tumblr (maybe it's from one of the podcast interviews the showrunner did, or something). If I find the source, I'll add it.

On 9/14/2022 at 11:48 AM, Aileen said:

Ahh...sorry. I must not have heard the renewal announcement until later on then. 

Any thoughts on the title of this episode? I know people have been questioning whether Alison is an unreliable narrator on message boards...I had hoped there would be some reference to the episode title.

This is also the second episode in a row where we've had more dimly lit sitcom scenes and we've got Kevin's people slowly turning on him or seeing his faults. I really hope that we do see a DramaKevin before the end of this series.

I think this being the final season could be a blessing in disguise. 

This is not the type of plot that can sustain too many seasons unless you include Allison being on the run.

So Kevin is literally the product of an unholy union?

It was nice to see Rachel Dratch.

[Barbarblacksheep]

17 hours ago, qtpye said:

So Kevin is literally the product of an unholy union?

On 9/12/2022 at 9:53 AM, Cranberry said:

"Kevin, your father's a priest and your mother's a nun. Think about it. Your whole life was based on a mistake")

I'm really confused/intrigued about this. Pete is Kevin's father, and doesn't seem like the (ex) priest type. Have they mentioned Kevin's mom at all since the show started? Granted, Allison was making an insulting joke, but it just seems like an odd kind of a dig, that somebody would say "Huh??" to. Probably just me overthinking again.

The "getting the Fourth of July fireworks ready" in February was odd as well.

Tammy and Patti make no sense at all to me, unless Patti is just looking for stability and is tired of being alone. But it especially doesn't jive with Tammy seeing the footage of Patti in Vermont...unless she wants to hold that over Patti's head forever, like "if you leave me, everybody will know about your little escapade in Vermont". But IDK. There's something going on there, and Tammy sets off red flags to me.

I'm hoping all these little idiosyncrasies will start piecing together before the show ends. I do still enjoy it and actually think it's brilliant in it's own way. ETA: Thanks to Cranberry for shedding light on Keven's parentage. And I do think I'm over-analyzing "wacky sitcom things" (@Chyromaniac). But the Tammy & Patti thing is still weird. Neil and Diane make more sense than Tammy & Patti.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Barbarblacksheep

[Cranberry]

7 hours ago, Barbarblacksheep said:

I'm really confused/intrigued about this. Pete is Kevin's father, and doesn't seem like the (ex) priest type. Have they mentioned Kevin's mom at all since the show started?

Yep! This exchange is from episode one:

Pete: "You know, we never got to have parties in the seminary."
Patty: "So that's why you had to have sex with nuns... the boredom."
Pete: "What can I say? I got in the habit." [Pause for laughter, but nobody laughs] "Come on!"
Kevin: "It was just one nun, and please don't talk about my parents having sex."

[Chyromaniac]

On 9/20/2022 at 12:13 AM, bigmag said:

Did Kevin say that he was in charge of the fireworks for the 4th of July?  If so, why are they all wearing jackets? He caused the power outage by trying out the fireworks but surely they wouldn't be preparing so far in advance.

Tbh, I’ve lost track of the timeline of the show a bit- but I feel like all of this has taken place over a few months.  Either that or we’re actually in Worcesteros, and it’s just always winter.  But yeah- as was mentioned above it’s currently February according to the cops.  As for the fireworks, that was basically just a wacky sitcom thing.  I assume in the real world he was just screwing around with them of his own accord - because any municipality should be hiring an experienced professional vendor to program a fireworks display, not some random yahoo.

Maybe it’s because they seemed to dog on it so much this week, but this is finally the episode where I wondered what the people of actual Worcester must think of this show.  Having done a quick wiki check, I think I’d be mildly insulted.  2nd largest city in MA.  Ethnically diverse and fairly cosmopolitan.  Very historic, and not just at city hall.  Like - outside of maybe the name recognition, I don’t know if there’s actually a point of setting the show there, instead of one of the five towns where they actually film.  And really, is it that much funnier hearing the characters talk about “Woostah,” compared to, for example,  “Brawkton?”

[Barbarblacksheep]

2 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Yep! This exchange is from episode one:

Pete: "You know, we never got to have parties in the seminary."
Patty: "So that's why you had to have sex with nuns... the boredom."
Pete: "What can I say? I got in the habit." [Pause for laughter, but nobody laughs] "Come on!"
Kevin: "It was just one nun, and please don't talk about my parents having sex."

Wow! I missed that entirely. Thanks!!

[Darian]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:16 PM, Starchild said:

You just know that if Kevin found out, he'd be the type to tell Chuck with the sawed-off.

All I've wanted for the show to end with Allison and Patty together, with better lives. Friends, lovers, whatever, but together. Now I kind of want Kevin to see his end by doing just that and getting the bullet himself, with no one else hurt. Or something to get him dead or someplace like prison where he can't keep blowing up anything good that anyone else has. 

Because I had a Kevin in my life, but not as a spouse, just a close family member, so this person who was in my whole life ruining or trying to ruin anything good I had. Ruined my credit when I was 18, only I didn't know until later and it's family, so you can't take legal action, at least not in my family. It wasn't constant. She could be great. Just enough so that when she Kevined, she got passes. Even later, it didn't matter that I left and everyone was sworn to secrecy about where I was and what I was doing. Even pre-internet, she'd find me and try to cost me my job and relationships. Some people you just can't get away from. And they manage to do it in such a way that either people think it's funny or a mistake or just that you've had it easier than them so give them a break. Allison is right that even if she could have left Kevin, it would not be over. If she'd gotten a job, even in another state, worked toward a certificate or degree at a community college, he'd find her  and cost her whatever life she was trying to cobble together. I didn't kill my family member, but I was sure as hell relieved when they died. So, yeah, I am all for Allison being rid of Kevin for good, and I hope he is the cause of his own demise, figuratively if not literally, but with no power to sabotage anymore.  

[qtpye]

54 minutes ago, Darian said:

All I've wanted for the show to end with Allison and Patty together, with better lives. Friends, lovers, whatever, but together. Now I kind of want Kevin to see his end by doing just that and getting the bullet himself, with no one else hurt. Or something to get him dead or someplace like prison where he can't keep blowing up anything good that anyone else has. 

I am not going to spoiler-tag this because it is pure speculation on my part.

We have all caught on to the very likely possibility that the real Kevin is much scarier than the goofy dumbass we see every week and the sitcom conceit is probably just a survival mechanism that Allison uses to get through the day.

I am going to speculate that Neil actually kills Kevin and solves most of Allison's problems.

We have seen Neil has violent tendencies and has become very disillusioned with Kevin.  Neil goes to prison and actually gets some counseling for his issues (if they do that sort of thing in prison).

Neil being gone also solves some of Patty's problems as he has been a constant source of stress for her since they were children.

6 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

Maybe it’s because they seemed to dog on it so much this week, but this is finally the episode where I wondered what the people of actual Worcester must think of this show.  Having done a quick wiki check, I think I’d be mildly insulted.  2nd largest city in MA.  Ethnically diverse and fairly cosmopolitan.  Very historic, and not just at city hall.  Like - outside of maybe the name recognition, I don’t know if there’s actually a point of setting the show there, instead of one of the five towns where they actually film.  And really, is it that much funnier hearing the characters talk about “Woostah,” compared to, for example,  “Brawkton?”

They really make Worcester look like a Hellhole that everyone should be escaping. It kind of reminds me of the way they referred to Lanford in the old Roseanne show but Lanford was a fictional town.

I don't know why they had put down a real place like this.

[possibilities]

I read a novel years ago that was set in western MA. The main character routinely referred to "the dreaded Worcester." I have never been there, so I can't testify about the place. But there seems to be at least a small industry of Worcester-bashing. I never hear that kind of talk about Springfield or Pittsfield or any other W. MA location.

[Whimsy]

On 9/21/2022 at 8:54 AM, Chyromaniac said:

Maybe it’s because they seemed to dog on it so much this week, but this is finally the episode where I wondered what the people of actual Worcester must think of this show.  Having done a quick wiki check, I think I’d be mildly insulted.  2nd largest city in MA.  Ethnically diverse and fairly cosmopolitan.  Very historic, and not just at city hall.  Like - outside of maybe the name recognition, I don’t know if there’s actually a point of setting the show there, instead of one of the five towns where they actually film.  And really, is it that much funnier hearing the characters talk about “Woostah,” compared to, for example,  “Brawkton?”

On 9/21/2022 at 3:54 PM, qtpye said:

They really make Worcester look like a Hellhole that everyone should be escaping. It kind of reminds me of the way they referred to Lanford in the old Roseanne show but Lanford was a fictional town.

I don't know why they had put down a real place like this.

I work in Worcester and, while I don’t live IN Worcester, I do live less than 2 miles from it. I really enjoy this show for what it is. I like hearing some of the local references and think they accurately portray parts of Worcester- it basically is a hellhole, at least imo.