S01.E01: The Heirs of the Dragon

[rollacoaster]

1 hour ago, kassandra8286 said:

I don't recall any mention of midwives or other types of medical professionals other than Maesters in Westeros, which is unfortunate, as Maesters in general don't seem to be very competent. Do they do much more than apply leeches or dose patients with milk of the poppy? I feel like if you're grievously injured or fall ill in the GOT world, you're pretty much doomed.

Having a skilled midwife present could have saved the queen's life. That was true even in our world in the Ye Olden Times. You were much more likely to die under the "ministrations" of the learned doctors than under the care of of a knowledgeable midwife or village wisewoman. 

[MBayGal]

1 hour ago, Dewey Decimate said:

Hell yeah, Dornish and Dothraki. (I may have a type.)

Dewey Decimate digs Dornish and Dothraki dudes.

love me some alliteration!

Edited August 24, 2022 by MBayGal

[Raachel2008]

On 8/23/2022 at 12:15 AM, bunnyblue said:

Yeah there was definitely some weird incest vibes going on there. I really hope that's not where this goes, but considering we just got done with an Aunt/Nephew relationship in GOT, I shouldn't be surprised if this time we get an Uncle/Niece incestuous relationship. 

One of the reasons the Targaryens are the Targaryens is the incest. I'm going to be surprised if they don't go there. We already had it in GoT (Cersei/Jaime) so, I don't think it will be a big deal for whoever is watching. I mean, it is a big deal, but in a scale of 0 to 10 this show has done much worse.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Raachel2008

[rollacoaster]

About them wigs...

We Need To Talk About 'House Of The Dragon' Wig Situation  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/we-need-to-talk-about-house-of-the-dragon-wig-situation/ar-AA113I1g?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=34e42461ae454c0d90468369fe83f98c

Edited August 24, 2022 by rollacoaster

[Constantinople]

Quote

Our histories they tell us that Aegon looked across the Blackwater from Dragonstone Saw a rich land ripe for the capture. But ambition alone is not what drove him to conquest. It was a dream.

And just as Daenys foresaw the end of Valyria Aegon foresaw the end of the world of men.' Tis to begin with a terrible winter gusting out of the distant north. Aegon saw absolute darkness riding on those winds. And whatever dwells within will destroy the world of the living.

When this Great Winter comes, Rhaenyra all of Westeros must stand against it. And if the world of men is to survive a Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne. A king or queen strong enough to unite the realm against the cold and the dark.

Aegon called his dream "The Song of Ice and Fire." This secret it's been passed from king to heir since Aegon's time. Now you must promise to carry it and protect it.

- Viserys to Rhaenyra

There's no countdown on this dream, so it could come true at any time. During Aegon's life, Jaehaerys's life or some later time.

So maybe Jaehaerys should have abdicated when he was younger at not risk having his tired, decrepit self in charge when the end of the world starts?

As it turned out, Jaehaerys dropped dead, but what if he were still alive?

Edited August 25, 2022 by Constantinople

[ferjy]

4 hours ago, rollacoaster said:

About them wigs...

We Need To Talk About 'House Of The Dragon' Wig Situation  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/we-need-to-talk-about-house-of-the-dragon-wig-situation/ar-AA113I1g?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=34e42461ae454c0d90468369fe83f98c

“gimmie all them elf wigs” 🤣

.

Edited August 25, 2022 by ferjy

[Tatum]

18 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

One of the reasons the Targaryens are the Targaryens is the incest. I'm going to be surprised if they don't go there.

I haven't read any of the books or watched any previews or followed any press for the remaining season, and I would 100% bet my 401K balance they will go there. Wasn't Viserys planning to rape Daenerys, and was only thwarted, not because rape is bad or raping your sister is bad, but because Daenerys' virginity was the only thing they had to trade? Niece and uncle would be so incidental at this point.

[MBayGal]

On 8/24/2022 at 3:38 PM, rollacoaster said:

About them wigs...

We Need To Talk About 'House Of The Dragon' Wig Situation  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/we-need-to-talk-about-house-of-the-dragon-wig-situation/ar-AA113I1g?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=34e42461ae454c0d90468369fe83f98c

Cracked me up that the article called the Targaryens "toe-headed" instead of "towheaded". I'm so old, I remember when there were people called proofreaders.  I even used to be one of them.

[ferjy]

3 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Cracked me up that the article called the Targaryens "toe-headed" instead of "towheaded". I'm so old, I remember when there were people called proofreaders.  I even used to be one of them.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Isn't House Tyrell's seat called High Garden?  That maybe where some of the confusion over the Hightowers is coming in.

Oh yeah. I swear, GRRM has no imagination when it comes to names, there are just way too many names that are similar. 

[gingerella]

37 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Oh yeah. I swear, GRRM has no imagination when it comes to names, there are just way too many names that are similar. 

I mean, for me the entire HOTD E01 is like GoTs just with different characters. Same costumes, weaponry, architecture, plot points, etc. etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, the world that was created for GoTs is vast and wonderful in many ways, but sometimes that's all folks have when the create something - they expend all their very best creativity on one opus and they're done. So maybe there isn't more 'there' there with this universe and any iteration we get will be GoT but with different characters, hence the names that all sound the same on Team Targ...?

[paigow]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Oh yeah. I swear, GRRM has no imagination when it comes to names, there are just way too many names that are similar. 

The whole Iron Throne spiel.. First of his name is a lie...

[cambridgeguy]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

So maybe there isn't more 'there' there with this universe and any iteration we get will be GoT but with different characters, hence the names that all sound the same on Team Targ...?

Using the same name matches our history- after all, from 1216-1553 every English King was named either Henry, Edward, or Richard.  France had a run of Louis.  It makes sense that the Targs, a royal house from a foreign land, would want to keep their own set of names to distinguish themselves from the rest of Westeros. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by cambridgeguy

[Ottis]

Not a fan. All the talk of heirs was like Star Wars’ endless talk of trade treaties. I was trying to remember what made GOT interesting from the start. That was 11 years ago, so I don’t recall. In fact I may not have been watching

Spoiler

until all the media attention over Ned dying.

In any case, lots of characters who are dicks in this one. I thought at first Hightower = Ned, until he pimped his daughter to the king. 

[yellowfred]

So, gonna be honest, I was a little hesitant to watch this, since I figured a show focused on the Targaryens was bound to be a bit too incest heavy for my taste (which still might end up being the case), but I actually ended up enjoying this, for the most part. 

That being said, I kind of had to roll my eyes at the whole "secret prophesy" speech.  Like, first of all, believing that your family had to conquer and now rule this country for the sake of humanity is a remarkably convenient belief for a conqueror/king to have.  Ignoring whether or not it's actually true, why would they keep that a secret? 

Also, the whole tournament seemed very strange to me.  Like, did they just not have any rules?  Daemon's stunt with the horse was probably a low point, but there was certainly a lot of beating people to death for an event that was put on for entertainment.  Even in peacetime, it seems strange that so many lords would send their knights/children into something with such a seemingly high mortality rate. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by yellowfred

[proserpina65]

Bit late to the party, but here are my thoughts anyway.

Yes, the sex and violence was very graphic, but there wasn't nearly as much of it as some reviews had led me to believe.  (Although I never want to see Matt Smith doing it Dothraki style ever again.)

That childbirth scene was brutal, but other than the non-consensual nature of it, it wasn't anything worse than what I've seen on Call the Midwife.

The political stuff was my least favorite part of Game of Thrones, so I'm not sure I want to see even more of it.  But there are dragons, so I'm in for now.

The costuming is generally excellent, but those wigs, ugh.

And while the Dornish guy is cute, but still not really anything in the way of hot guys.

Oh, and something about Milly Alcock's face bugs me, so I will be glad when Emma D'Arcy takes over.

[proserpina65]

On 8/21/2022 at 10:59 PM, Diapason Untuned said:

I confess to chuckling when Lady Velaryon was deriding the knights as summer boys whilst someone's head was getting imploded on the field.

I definitely like her.  She's the smart one.

[cambridgeguy]

9 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I definitely like her.  She's the smart one.

She's very similar to Oleanna Tyrell - smart, crafty, and more than happy to make cutting remarks.  We don't know if her kids are as dumb as Mace, but Corlys seems to be fairly intelligent as well. 

[Constantinople]

Is it just me or did Rickon Stark seem a little grumpy? As if he were thinking You dragged me all the way down to King's Landing for this? Whatever happened to signed, sealed, delivered?

[Constantinople]

I just rewatched the scene where Daemon channels Dirty Harry.

The scene can be broken into two parts. In the second part a member of the City Watch identifies a raper, a thief and a murderer, who are then punished. But in the first part the Watch just starts wailing on random people.

And given Aegon's Dream, shouldn't Viserys have directed Daemon to send as many men to the Night's Watch as possible?

And speaking of Dirty Daemon, it's a shame they cut this scene

I know what you're thinking: "Did he unsheath Dark Sister or an ordinary sword?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as Dark Sister is a Valyrian steel sword, the most powerful sword in the world, and would slice your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do you, punk?

[MBayGal]

18 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

That childbirth scene was brutal, but other than the non-consensual nature of it, it wasn't anything worse than what I've seen on Call the Midwife.

It seemed much worse to me, I could hardly watch it.  I don't recall any c-sections without anesthetic on Call the Midwife. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by MBayGal

[proserpina65]

20 hours ago, MBayGal said:

It seemed much worse to me, I could hardly watch it.  I don't recall any c-sections without anesthetic on Call the Midwife. 

None without anesthetic that I can remember, but there were a few in the early seasons which I found as disturbing.  Not quite as graphic but still hard to watch.

[PurpleTentacle]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:27 PM, AntFTW said:

Does curing greyscale count?

I wonder if the greyscale treatment exists during the time of HOTD.

Since that was clearly a D&D invention (because it's dumb): Nope!

[paigow]

On 8/28/2022 at 12:56 PM, Constantinople said:

Is it just me or did Rickon Stark seem a little grumpy?

That is Stark / Karstark resting face...

[Hanahope]

Well, i was not all that impressed, but i really didn't expect to be.  I just wasn't sure this show was going to grab me like GoT.  Prequels are always hard, unless we need to know more about a character's family history and I'm not that sure i need to know that much about the Targs.  We already know about the incest and insanity, as well as the somewhat 'dying out' of the family that led to Dany's family already being small to begin with.  

I'm more interested in the dragons, why they died out, perhaps the same reason, lack of new blood.

Matt Smith is chewing scenary, but i've seen the crazy/vicious uncle character before.  not sure there's a whole lot new to do.

i'm sure the menfolk won't accept Rhaenyra anymore than they wanted her aunt.  right now they don't have much choice, but clearly King will wed again and get a son.  so this act is just to piss off his brother and cause conflict and plot.  yawn.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Hanahope

[dontcallmyname]

On 8/22/2022 at 3:38 AM, bluvelvet said:

I assume the Kings now deceased wife was his sister, I wonder if the inbreeding had to do with all those unsuccessful pregnancies. Her apology kinda broke my heart. I wonder if they had a real romantic love or more expectations. 

I might be a bit late here, but they're not siblings, but rather first cousins.

Their fathers are brothers, sons of King Jaehaerys I (the one we see in the prologue).

King Viserys I however (the current king) is the son of a brother and sister, children of King Jaehaerys I.

Rhaenys, The Queen That Never Was, is also their first cousin, daughter of another son of Jaehaerys.

So:

Jaehaerys I (the king in the prologue) is the grandson of Aegon I (the first king of Westeros). He married his sister. They had four children: Aemon, Daella, Baelon and Alyssa.

• Aemon married a Baratheon and had a daughter: Rhaenys, The Queen That Never Was (and the oldest of the cousins)
   
• Daella married an Arryn and had a daughter: Aemma (the Consort Queen at the begin of the show)
   
• Baelon and Alyssa got married and had two sons: Viserys (the current King) and Daemon (Doctor Who)

Then Viserys and Aemma got married.

Edited August 31, 2022 by dontcallmyname

[Affogato]

On 8/21/2022 at 11:55 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

She married a Velaryon though. That is generally an approved match for Targaryens. Of course previously it was stated that that was because Velaryons were also of valyrian blood and generally looked like the Targs, which went out the window when they cast the Velaryons as black in this show, because apperently the writers weren't smart enough to come up with a way to include some diversity organically, but let's better not get into that discussion...

Making an effort to have a really diverse population of common folk ruled by white people is  not a good look, if you want to establish a diverse population and tell a story that isn't mostly about social division based on the color of the skin.

Maybe we will find out that other Valyrian families were black as well. Not, obviously, the Targs. But I think this is a good way to establish diversity in the show. Its a start, anyway.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Affogato

[PurpleTentacle]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Making an effort to have a really diverse population of common folk ruled by white people is  not a good look, if you want to establish a diverse population and tell a story that isn't mostly about social division based on the color of the skin.

Well maybe don't make the common folk super diverse? Why would you in a society that is based on medieval europe?

If you just have to have diversity in this show based on medieval europe, you write in some lords from across the narrow sea.

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Maybe we will find out that other Valyrian families were black as well. Not, obviously, the Targs. But I think this is a good way to establish diversity in the show. Its a start, anyway.

That's not the point. The point is that the Targaryens and Velaryons intermarried quite a bit and the Targs are still white as snow during GoT times.

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Well maybe don't make the common folk super diverse? Why would you in a society that is based on medieval europe?

If you just have to have diversity in this show based on medieval europe, you write in some lords from across the narrow sea.

Because this isn't literally a show about medieval Europe.  Sure, some of the background is loosely based on medieval Europe but it's not a documentary.  It's about a completely fictional place and thus can be as diverse as the producers want it to be.

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

That's not the point. The point is that the Targaryens and Velaryons intermarried quite a bit and the Targs are still white as snow during GoT times.

But who are those Targaryens descended from?  Possibly not from the marriage of Rhaenys & Corlys?

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Because this isn't literally a show about medieval Europe.  Sure, some of the background is loosely based on medieval Europe but it's not a documentary.  It's about a completely fictional place and thus can be as diverse as the producers want it to be.

It's a continent with basically only white people. That's the point. Not every place in history and fiction is modern day USA.

Like I said, if you must have diversity, there are ways you could get it into this show, that isn't completely lazy and nonsensical.

PS: Diversity is of course a good thing, it just doesn't necessarily fit everywhere. Also american's defintion of diversity is just embarrasing "yeah, just throw a few black guys in there, that should fill our quota! What do you mean there are other ethnicities?!"

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

But who are those Targaryens descended from?  Possibly not from the marriage of Rhaenys & Corlys?

Certainly not from their marriage, but from other Velaryon marriages.

[cambridgeguy]

5 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

If you just have to have diversity in this show based on medieval europe, you write in some lords from across the narrow sea.

If those lords aren't already an integral part of the story in the book then introducing a bunch of foreigners just to satisfy a diversity requirement would make certain people equally pissy.  Deviating from canon to do so is one of the reasons so many folks are outraged about Rings of Power.

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

It's a continent with basically only white people. 

says who?

[PurpleTentacle]

12 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

says who?

A show called Game of Thrones.

The brownest people get is in Dorne and that is the equivalent of Spain, so still pretty white.

20 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

If those lords aren't already an integral part of the story in the book then introducing a bunch of foreigners just to satisfy a diversity requirement would make certain people equally pissy. 

Well if you can't get it to work, then you just don't do it. But I don't think that's a problem here, as the book in question is a broad history of the Targaryens and not a Song of Ice and Fire type series of novels.

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

A show called Game of Thrones.

really? we saw the entirety of the population of westeros in game of thrones?

[rollacoaster]

3 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

It's a continent with basically only white people. That's the point. Not every place in history and fiction is modern day USA.

Like I said, if you must have diversity, there are ways you could get it into this show, that isn't completely lazy and nonsensical.

Medieval Europe was actually more diverse than people think. Look at a map. Parts were not that far from Northern Africa and the Middle East. 

I think you mentioned that the people of Dorne were the brownest that people get in Westeros?

Don't forget the Summer Isles people, whose skin tones come in "shades of nut brown, teak, ebony and polished black. Their hair and eyes are black."

 https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Summer_Isles

Edited September 8, 2022 by rollacoaster

[Meredith Quill]

15 hours ago, rollacoaster said:

Medieval Europe was actually more diverse than people think. Look at a map. Parts were not that far from Northern Africa and the Middle East. 

I think you mentioned that the people of Dorne were the brownest that people get in Westeros?

Don't forget the Summer Isles people, whose skin tones come in "shades of nut brown, teak, ebony and polished black. Their hair and eyes are black."

 https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Summer_Isles

Fairly sure that The Summer Isles aren't a part of Westeros. Not sure if they're closer to Essos or Southros. I could be wrong though, my Planetos geography is rusty.

[rollacoaster]

1 hour ago, SilverStormm said:

Fairly sure that The Summer Isles aren't a part of Westeros. Not sure if they're closer to Essos or Southros. I could be wrong though, my Planetos geography is rusty.

I had to look it up, they are located southeast of Westeros. 

My point is that the Summer Isles are a known part of that world. There ARE dark-skinned people in the Game of Thrones universe, just like there were non-white people in Medieval Europe. 

[proserpina65]

21 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

It's a continent with basically only white people. That's the point. Not every place in history and fiction is modern day USA.

Like I said, if you must have diversity, there are ways you could get it into this show, that isn't completely lazy and nonsensical.

PS: Diversity is of course a good thing, it just doesn't necessarily fit everywhere. Also american's defintion of diversity is just embarrasing "yeah, just throw a few black guys in there, that should fill our quota! What do you mean there are other ethnicities?!"

Certainly not from their marriage, but from other Velaryon marriages.

I looked at the various family trees and there are 2 Velaryon marriages in the Targaryen lineage that leads directly to Viserys I but none that lead from Viserys to Daenarys.  And multiple Targaryen brother-sister marriages.  So in the centuries between HOD and GOT, the Targaryens have had plenty of time to breed out any non-platinum blond genes.

It's entirely possible that the Velaryons are the only non-white family to emigrate to Westeros.  And if they die out before intermarrying that much and spreading out throughout the continent or if they intermarry with white families extensively, it's not unbelievable for the population of Westeros to remain fairly homogenous.  Because it's all fucking fantasy anyway.

GOT received a shit-ton of criticism about the lack of diversity.  I'm cutting HOD a break for at least trying to make up for it to a certain extent.  And this is my last word on the subject.  I'm gonna back to talking about cool dragons and jacked up wigs.

[magdalene]

On 8/27/2022 at 4:12 PM, Ottis said:

Not a fan. All the talk of heirs was like Star Wars’ endless talk of trade treaties. I was trying to remember what made GOT interesting from the start. That was 11 years ago, so I don’t recall. In fact I may not have been watching

  Hide contents

until all the media attention over Ned dying.

In any case, lots of characters who are dicks in this one. I thought at first Hightower = Ned, until he pimped his daughter to the king. 

Dies laughing at the notion of Otto Hightower compared to dear old sainted Ned.  One way they are alike though is 

Spoiler

their manner of exit.

Not everybody is bad and those who are pretty bad can be very interesting. Most are just flawed. 

[FemmyV]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:36 AM, CletusMusashi said:

Within the admittedly lamentable restrictions of a patriarchal pseudomedieval society, it's a winning plan.

It's a strife-creating plan, which we are now seeing unfold.

I wasn't wowed by the pilot and am resisting getting drawn in, overall. Ultimately, if the show starts looking as another way to say, "men won't accept a female leader," but with a better crafted end, I'll bail rather than waste time.

Edited September 20, 2022 by FemmyV

[Black Knight]

Now that the first season is at an end, I’m finally watching so that I can just do a binge!

The one comment I have for this episode that I haven’t already seen mentioned is the nice bit of character-building for Alicent at the tourney. We see that she sincerely cares for her brother, and is upset when Daemon pulls that shitty maneuver that might have really hurt her brother. But when Daemon then asks for her favor, she sucks it up and gives it to him with a smile. She is very politically-minded already.

[Roseanna]

On 8/22/2022 at 5:40 AM, magdalene said:

For all the gore - it's going to be brutal watching this show - the most awful thing was watching Queen Emma being killed to bring forth the short  lived heir.  I couldn't help my modern self kinda going "karma got you there king, you should have chosen your wife over your child".

Viserys didn't chose the child over his wife. He was told that th options were eithet to save the child (which would kill his wife) or (if he dared to make no decision) both will die.