S01.E05: Time and Again

[tkc]

Totally the opposite of going back in time to murder your grandfather...

...The Grandmother Unparadox!

I came to this show not knowing very much at all about the material, but I have been *so* pleasantly surprised!

• instead of dwelling on a teenage love triangle (quadrangle?), they've told a story about friendship
• instead of having the clichéd clueless or overly protective parents, Kamala has two parents who genuinely love her and are trying to do right by her
• instead of telling a story set in America with fish-out-of-water immigrants, we get a story anchored in a history of a South Asian culture
• ...and we get a lovely inter-generational moment between Kamala, Muneeba, and Sana
• (bonus marks for the clever Marvel Studios intro)

I guess what I was seeking was seeking me!

There may be criticisms about pacing (the episode seemed to be drawing to a sudden series climax with The Veil appearing) or characterization (Najma and her colleagues were drawn somewhat two-dimensionally), but I'm glad to overlook any shortcomings in favour of the things I feel the show is doing well!

Edited July 6, 2022 by tkc

[phalange]

I like the way the Marvel Studios logo was changed up, turning into black and white. So Kamala did end up helping Sana get back to her father and she got to meet Aisha, even though it was under very sad circumstances. And now her mother finally knows about her powers and is supportive. What a nice moment between Sana, Muneeba, and Kamala at the end. 

Looks like Kamala got the final piece to her superhero costume!

Poor Kamran, he gained powers but lost his mother and now Damage Control is after him and Bruno. Since the veil between dimensions is closed now, I'm guessing dealing with Damage Control will be the focus next episode. 

[AnimeMania]

I am not sure where all the negative stories/rumors about Aisha came from, surely her husband didn't spread them,  moving to a new country, nobody there would had ever met her, and her daughter was too young to have any kind stories about her positive or negative. 

That scarf seemed awfully short, I thought the scarf Ms. Marvel wears is much longer.

[arc]

Episode 4 felt really rushed, but the execution on this one was much stronger. The story of Hasan and Aisha was sweeter and more moving than I would have thought.

I still think Najma has been moved by the plot more than making her character motivations feel believable and lived-in.

It's wild the DODC not only uses lethal drones but has them willing/able to fire extremely powerful explosives into occupied buildings. The actual real world military has rules of engagement. Then again, I guess real world police effectively don't and DODC sure acts a lot more like police.

Edited July 6, 2022 by arc
Whoops, episode 4 is not ep 5

[ouinason]

I hope someone got video of that explosion and puts it so far up the internet that it's impossible to get rid of.

Aisha's death, what I expected, how Kamala interacted with the past, not what I expected.  Mom finding out, not expected!!  Bruno and Kamran not AT ALL expected!! 

I hope poor Kamran can find comfort in the fact that his mom, obsessed as she was with getting home, sacrificed herself to keep him safe in the end.  

[Raja]

7 hours ago, arc said:

Episode 5 felt really rushed, but the execution on this one was much stronger. The story of Hasan and Aisha was sweeter and more moving than I would have thought.

I still think Najma has been moved by the plot more than making her character motivations feel believable and lived-in.

It's wild the DODC not only uses lethal drones but has them willing/able to fire extremely powerful explosives into occupied buildings. The actual real world military has rules of engagement. Then again, I guess real world police effectively don't and DODC sure acts a lot more like police.

I think it felt rushed because half was spent on great grandmother's story before Kamala appeared to move the plot. It was just at the point where I thought the entire episode would be in 1947.

I guess D.O.D.C. comes from the Thunderbolt Ross school that the enhanced are possible nuclear weapons amongst us. In which case collateral damage would be tolerated, even if they had once reigned in the Avengers because of the collateral damage of their operations. They are being played as the Keystone Kops where as S.W.O.R.D. knowing that they were after a nuclear weapon in Wanda Maximoff went the other direction to talk down rather than try to blitz attack with Stark tech.

[thuganomics85]

Uh oh!  Muneeba has been made known that the "Find your Phone" app is a thing.  That's too much power!  It will corrupt her!

Not to start things off on a completely shallow note, but Hasam and Aisha were a great looking duo right there!  The family's got some strong genes!  Credit to both of the actors for doing a lot of with the material they had and making me like them as a couple and feel bad about how it all turned out for them.

I wonder if Red Dagger will factor back in again since I suspect the finale will take things back to the States.

So, Kamran honestly didn't know "Brian" was Bruno this entire time.  I guess being a self-absorb teen who didn't listen to someone introducing himself is at least better than knowingly being an asshole to your crush's best friend.  But it looks like those two might need to work together more now that Damage Control is after them.  At least Kamram also has powers now!

Kamala's outfit is almost complete!

Enjoyed the episode, but I'm bummed that next week is already the finale because I feel like we barely scratched the surface here.  Really wish Disney would give these series more episodes.  I understand not wanting to do a full-blown 12 or 13 like Netflix did with their Marvel shows, but I feel like a good 8 to 10 would work.  I'm sure there are factors coming into play here that I'm not taking into consideration (budgets, actor availability, etc.), but I feel like that would have been the sweet spot.  Still, I'm enjoying the show and can't wait to see how it all plays out next week!

[Llywela]

8 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Kamran honestly didn't know "Brian" was Bruno this entire time.  I guess being a self-absorb teen who didn't listen to someone introducing himself is at least better than knowingly being an asshole to your crush's best friend. 

😀 I totally bought his cluenessness, because I myself am perfectly capable of meeting someone for the first time and forgetting their name within two minutes of being introduced! But unlike Kamran, I generally then try to avoid addressing them by name at all, rather than admit I've forgotten, whereas Kamran simply convinced himself he'd heard something different and used that alternate name with perfect confidence! Which does fit his character, to be fair.

[Sakura12]

I am enjoying this show, the only downside was the villians were just there to be the bad guys. They had no depth so Kamran's mothers sudden turnaround made no sense and wasn't earned. 

However Kamala's journey has been interesting and I loved learning about her families history. They manged to make Aisha and Hasan's story meaningful. I'm kind of upset she's dead. Why did people think they were Djinn since they don't seem to have any magic powers in this dimension. How did Kamran get his without a bangle? Did she active him through the veil.

So he actually thought his name was Brian and wasn't just being an ass. 

Kamala's mother finding out about her and finally believing her mother's stories were true was great. I loved seeing the 3 generations. 

[arc]

31 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Why did people think they were Djinn since they don't seem to have any magic powers in this dimension.

They have enhanced strength and durability and that one dude manifested his weapon out of thin air in the wedding reception hall kitchen back in ep 3.

[Sakura12]

So that seeking message is like a summoning spell for the bangle. Aisha used it to summon the bangle from the future, she at first thought Kamala was Sana then realized she brought it from further in the future. 

[tkc]

On a rewatch, I think the episode might have worked better if it had ended with the pull-away shot of Karachi, and then used the Circle Q scene as a mid-credits scene…

[SnarkShark]

Bravo Marvel.  Well done.

5 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I am enjoying this show, the only downside was the villians were just there to be the bad guys. They had no depth so Kamran's mothers sudden turnaround made no sense and wasn't earned. 

Except it wasn't much of a turnaround.  She was never going to get home. Ever.  She realized that.  And her companions were all gone.  

[SnarkShark]

9 hours ago, Raja said:

I guess D.O.D.C. comes from the Thunderbolt Ross school that the enhanced are possible nuclear weapons amongst us.

On one hand they were following Kamron, who they deemed a terrorist.  This wasn't (yet) about Kamala.  But they definitely knew Bruno was there and totally wrote him off.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I am not sure where all the negative stories/rumors about Aisha came from, surely her husband didn't spread them,  moving to a new country, nobody there would had ever met her, and her daughter was too young to have any kind stories about her positive or negative. 

When they were telling Kamala the stories several of the women said their families knew Aisha. They moved countries but so did millions of others. I don’t know if it is what happened but I wouldn’t be surprised if people from the same areas of India formed smaller communities within Pakistan. 

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Uh oh!  Muneeba has been made known that the "Find your Phone" app is a thing.  That's too much power!  It will corrupt her!

True but I loved that whole part. 

7 hours ago, Llywela said:

😀 I totally bought his cluenessness, because I myself am perfectly capable of meeting someone for the first time and forgetting their name within two minutes of being introduced! But unlike Kamran, I generally then try to avoid addressing them by name at all, rather than admit I've forgotten, whereas Kamran simply convinced himself he'd heard something different and used that alternate name with perfect confidence! Which does fit his character, to be fair.

Me too. I really like that they are showing to be more flawed than the dream guy usually gets. Before he was the typical cool guy and now we see him as just a kid out of his depth. The role reversal between him and Kamala in the next episode should be good. 

45 minutes ago, tkc said:

On a rewatch, I think the episode might have worked better if it had ended with the pull-away shot of Karachi, and then used the Circle Q scene as a mid-credits scene…

Probably but I’m guessing that would have felt too much like an season ending. 

[Jediknight]

21 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I am not sure where all the negative stories/rumors about Aisha came from, surely her husband didn't spread them,  moving to a new country, nobody there would had ever met her, and her daughter was too young to have any kind stories about her positive or negative.

All the family would know is that at the most stressful time, Aisha left.  That would cause resentment in generations, seeing the toll it would take on Hasan and Sana.  None of them knew that Aisha died to protect her family, and made sure to bring Kamala back in time to get her husband and daughter to safety.  Hasan and Sana may not have said anything disparaging about her, but the rest of the family would think they were just coping and couldn't face the truth.

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Not to start things off on a completely shallow note, but Hasam and Aisha were a great looking duo right there!

Yes they are.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Jediknight

[Llywela]

1 minute ago, Jediknight said:

All the family would know is that at the most stressful time, Aisha left.  That would cause resentment in generations, seeing the toll it would take on Hasan and Sanna.  None of them knew that Aisha died to protect her family, and made sure to bring Kamala back in time to get her husband and daughter to safety.  Hasan and Sanna may not have said anything disparaging about her, but the rest of the family would think they were just coping and couldn't face the truth.

Yeah, this. Hasan would have arrived in Pakistan alone with a small child and when asked could only have told people that his wife had disappeared in the chaos of their escape from India. People would then have drawn their own conclusions from that - and people love to gossip. People love scandal. Some might believe the best of her, but too many would want to believe the worst. No matter how much Hasan clung to his belief that Aisha loved him and Sana, it wouldn't take much for that gossip to become malicious. And that's just on the surface of things. Dig a little deeper and...well, if Hasan told anyone at all about Aisha's background (and you have to hope the poor man had at least some friends he could confide him) and if that story then got out, it would look pretty damning. She appeared in his life out of nowhere, she'd been on the run for reasons she never confided in him. He never knew where she came from. She'd clearly been in some kind of trouble. She persuaded him to leave for Pakistan very abruptly, after being stalked by a mysterious woman she wouldn't tell him anything about. She deliberately separated herself from him at the train station and he never saw her again. That's a story with legs - that's a story that very easily becomes extremely malicious gossip.

As for how the story spread to America, well, ex-patriots tend to form communities. It would only take one person within that community who came from the same district as Muneeba for the story of her grandmother to follow her.

[Spaceman Spiff]

21 hours ago, Raja said:

I think it felt rushed because half was spent on great grandmother's story before Kamala appeared to move the plot. It was just at the point where I thought the entire episode would be in 1947.

It was rushed. When the episode ended, I actually paused the show, it only ran for 32 mins. The shortest of all the episodes.

[tennisgurl]

As much as I love this series, I really do wish that we had a few more episodes, at least one. There is so much to wrap up still and so much more to uncover, I feel like we are just scratching the surface of the Djinn and Kamala's family and her journey. Just one more, Disney! 

Kudos to the actors playing Hasam and Aisha, they really sold me on their romance in just half an episode, I was totally on board with them while also watching with dread knowing how it was going to end. So Kamala created a time loop by helping her young grandma back in the past, which was always going to happen thanks to the magic in the bracelet, time travel is funny that way. I have really liked exploring her families past and how much it still affects them, Kamala giving her grandma the picture of her and her parents was a really nice cap to that part of the story, and now Muneeba knows that everything her mom said was true. So will she and Kamala tell the rest of their family about her powers?

Kamala is not going to be happy to hear that her mom now knows about Find My Phone. 

It cracks me up that Kamran really had no idea that Bruno's name wasn't Brian. He's had a rough go of it, but at least now he has powers and he can at least know that his mom died to protect him, even after she ditched him.

Holy shit, they just blew up the whole shop! I have no idea who Damage Control actually answers to, but they need to reign them in before they get innocent people killed with their "drone strike in the middle of Jersey City" policy. Of course, it wouldn't be surprising if people like Thunderbolt Ross and SWORD are behind this.

Edited July 7, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Rlb8031]

On 7/6/2022 at 5:33 AM, AnimeMania said:

I am not sure where all the negative stories/rumors about Aisha came from, surely her husband didn't spread them,  moving to a new country, nobody there would had ever met her, and her daughter was too young to have any kind stories about her positive or negative. 

That scarf seemed awfully short, I thought the scarf Ms. Marvel wears is much longer.

10 hours ago, Llywela said:

Yeah, this. Hasan would have arrived in Pakistan alone with a small child and when asked could only have told people that his wife had disappeared in the chaos of their escape from India. People would then have drawn their own conclusions from that - and people love to gossip. People love scandal. Some might believe the best of her, but too many would want to believe the worst. No matter how much Hasan clung to his belief that Aisha loved him and Sana, it wouldn't take much for that gossip to become malicious. And that's just on the surface of things. Dig a little deeper and...well, if Hasan told anyone at all about Aisha's background (and you have to hope the poor man had at least some friends he could confide him) and if that story then got out, it would look pretty damning. She appeared in his life out of nowhere, she'd been on the run for reasons she never confided in him. He never knew where she came from. She'd clearly been in some kind of trouble. She persuaded him to leave for Pakistan very abruptly, after being stalked by a mysterious woman she wouldn't tell him anything about. She deliberately separated herself from him at the train station and he never saw her again. That's a story with legs - that's a story that very easily becomes extremely malicious gossip.

As for how the story spread to America, well, ex-patriots tend to form communities. It would only take one person within that community who came from the same district as Muneeba for the story of her grandmother to follow her.

ALL OF THIS^^^^^^

The stories start with "Well, she may have been beautiful, but you know what they say..." and then go on from there. She was cheating on her husband, running from the law, was never really a Muslim, and on an on. In homogenous communities, just the fact that she wasn't born and raised there is probably enough to set tongues wagging, especially when she's left behind a small child and her something of a firebrand husband...

[benteen]

This was a good episode although I think Doctor Who did a better story about the Partition a few years ago. This episode felt rushed and more time in the beginning would have helped. The romance between Hasam and Aisha was very good and the resolution with the photograph was very sweet.

As someone who used to read the Ms.arvel comic, my only complaint with it is what unfortunately applies to the show. The villains are very weak. The backstory is interesting but the Clandestines are not and they seem to be one step above stormtroopers when it comes to competence. The DODC isn't much bettter.The only thing the Ms. Marvel comic and TV series have ever lacked were good and memorable villains. It's a testament to both mediums that it's not held them back.

Glad that Kamala's mother knows the truth.

Hope to see Red Dagger back.

[Kel Varnsen]

On the plus side they did a great job of showing why someone who is basically an immortal alien would even bother themselves with the partition at all. 

The negative side was that this is at least the second time that a super powerful near immortal alien mom got killer by being stabbed once. 

[Llywela]

12 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The negative side was that this is at least the second time that a super powerful near immortal alien mom got killer by being stabbed once. 

To be fair, the show never claimed or even implied that the Clandestines are near immortal. It told us only that they age more slowly than humans. They have been shown to be able to take harder hits than a human in a fight, but they have also been shown to be just as vulnerable as any human to being killed, in the right (or wrong) circumstances - we saw both Kareem and Waleed kill Clandestines by stabbing them in the last episode. And who would know the vulnerabilities of a Clandestine better than another Clandestine?

[BaggythePanther]

On 7/8/2022 at 5:10 PM, benteen said:

As someone who used to read the Ms.arvel comic, my only complaint with it is what unfortunately applies to the show. The villains are very weak.

Ms. Marvel’s villain, The Inventor sounds fun and I kind of wish they’d done him instead of the Clandestines. Was he not a good villain?

[arc]

On 7/31/2022 at 1:02 PM, BaggythePanther said:

Ms. Marvel’s villain, The Inventor sounds fun and I kind of wish they’d done him instead of the Clandestines. Was he not a good villain?

I think the writers really wanted to do something with the India-Pakistan Partition and the Clandestines were probably easier to put into that framework than a half-bird clone of Thomas Edison.

[Guest]

On 7/31/2022 at 1:02 PM, BaggythePanther said:

Ms. Marvel’s villain, The Inventor sounds fun and I kind of wish they’d done him instead of the Clandestines. Was he not a good villain?

I think first villains are often the weakest because they need to help set up the backstory and can’t be too challenging to a hero who doesn’t know how to use their powers yet. 

[Emily Thrace]

On 7/7/2022 at 1:44 PM, Rlb8031 said:

ALL OF THIS^^^^^^

The stories start with "Well, she may have been beautiful, but you know what they say..." and then go on from there. She was cheating on her husband, running from the law, was never really a Muslim, and on an on. In homogenous communities, just the fact that she wasn't born and raised there is probably enough to set tongues wagging, especially when she's left behind a small child and her something of a firebrand husband...

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Although you would think with all the chaos of Partition the truth, that she had been attacked and killed would have been a possibility even to the gossips. In any kind of mass migration like that families will get separated. The idea that Aisha got lost in the crowd and then attacked is all too plausible.

I do think like Muneeba said her mother's eccentricities played into the rumors. Add to that her father leaving and you can see how it would add up to the whole family being seen as odd.

[possibilities]

I didn't understand that Kamran got his powers from his mother's "sacrifice"-- how did you all figure that out? I was really confused about how the rest of them got through the portal but she and the one other didn't. Or... maybe the others were killed and the two of them didn't get through, they just turned to dust and bones? I might not be literate enough in the Marvel iconography to really follow.

I was stunned to see K show up at B's place and crushed to see it blown up. But I am happy that K really did think B's name was Brian. I appreciate that this show manages to insert some humor even in the serious moments. I truly thought K was being passive- aggressive and competitive, not that he just didn't know the right name. And of course, someone should have corrected him, so that's on everyone.

Why didn't Sana SHOW her daughter, rather than just tell her the stories? Did the bangle not give Sana powers? Why not?

I love this show even though I miss some of the details.

[arc]

On 10/19/2022 at 7:52 PM, possibilities said:

I didn't understand that Kamran got his powers from his mother's "sacrifice"-- how did you all figure that out?

The way the blue-yellow energy was the last remnants of Namja, and then in the very next scene Kamran is suffused with the same blue-yellow energy and then manifests blue-yellow hard light strongly implies he only got powers somehow because Namja died, Maybe due to their alien background, or due to an interaction with closing the rift.

On 10/19/2022 at 7:52 PM, possibilities said:

I was really confused about how the rest of them got through the portal but she and the one other didn't. Or... maybe the others were killed and the two of them didn't get through, they just turned to dust and bones? I might not be literate enough in the Marvel iconography to really follow.

I thought they all died. I guess in context it makes Namja seem extra dumb (or stupidly confident) to think she can make it through after seeing her two compatriots die in the effort.

[Scarlett45]

On 7/7/2022 at 10:34 AM, tennisgurl said:

Kudos to the actors playing Hasam and Aisha, they really sold me on their romance in just half an episode, I was totally on board with them while also watching with dread knowing how it was going to end.

I agree. The actors really sold the romance in a short time frame. I felt terribly for Hasan, how terrified he must’ve been, having to leave his home, his wife is keeping secrets and then his daughter disappears in the crowd. 

“She is okay, because you are here.” Aisha died knowing her daughter lived long enough to have a granddaughter who knew her, and the bangle was protected. 
 

On 10/19/2022 at 9:52 PM, possibilities said:

Why didn't Sana SHOW her daughter, rather than just tell her the stories? Did the bangle not give Sana powers? Why not?

I am thinking that it’s a genetic thing. From what they said in previous episodes Kamala was able to use all of the bracelet’s powers in this world because she was x % human. Aisha may have only been tap in y% of the bangle’s powers because she was all Djinn. Sana didn’t have the gift, just the ability to pass it on (like a recessive trait). 

[Scarlett45]

On 8/20/2022 at 8:27 PM, Emily Thrace said:

I do think like Muneeba said her mother's eccentricities played into the rumors. Add to that her father leaving and you can see how it would add up to the whole family being seen as odd.

Wait Hasan left Sana? Who raised her? Or do you mean Muneeba’s father (Sana’s husband) left Sana?