S21.E09: The Great Pretender

[WendyCR72]

Airs May 12, 2022:

Quote

Bernard and Cosgrove must sift through fact and fiction to find the killer of a young Manhattan socialite. The murder trial takes a turn that becomes personal for Price and puts Maroun in a compromising situation.

 

[dttruman]

On 5/5/2022 at 9:12 PM, WendyCR72 said:

  Quote

Bernard and Cosgrove must sift through fact and fiction to find the killer of a young Manhattan socialite. The murder trial takes a turn that becomes personal for Price and puts Maroun in a compromising situation.

Wow, two big Ripped from the Headline stories in one episode. The massive Opioid problem and the Girl who ripped off many people for tons of money.

[Jenniferbug]

My biggest complaint about this season so far (and it's fairly minor really) is that every episode, Nolan comes up with some plan to go for bigger charges or people or whatever, Jack shoots it down, Nolan says please, and Jack says ok. I appreciate that Jack likes to collaborate and I know the show has time constraints, but it never feels like Nolan's arguments are quite strong enough that they should be convincing Jack to shrug and let him do whatever he wants (particularly this week). 

[Kemper]

I still think that the “policing” portion of the show gets rushed.

[Door County Cherry]

I think the policing portion is probably about the same length; it's just that they go right into the show after the credits roll instead of taking a commercial break.  So the lawyer portion seems to start in the first half but doesn't really.  Plus, the policing portion usually involves more characters than the law side given that they're interviewing a bunch of suspects.

There was a weather interruption so I missed the second half.  Did they say who the victim of their "manslaughter" was?  The counselor?  

I know L&O likes to swing for the fences but I really miss small cases that aren't about something more.  For instance, I would have preferred if this case was just about a bunch of people screwed over by "Ella" and the prosecutors having to deal with a woman who the jury won't like and a defense attorney throwing out other potential suspects. 

I'm jealous that SVU and OC are getting new showrunners since our showrunner wrote the episode and leaned into his worse tendencies:  dramatic music and heavy ripped from the headlines. 

[Xeliou66]

This was pretty good as a whole - the first half/detective investigation was outstanding, then the second half took a totally different turn and it wasn’t as strong. It felt like there was enough material here for 2 episodes and they crammed them together to make one. Still I enjoyed the hour overall.

This was the best police investigation yet - lots of good detective work and following up on various leads until they found the killer, very enjoyable to watch and Bernard and Cosgrove really gelled in this episode, no tension between them and they have good chemistry and I loved their part of the show.

The second half felt like a totally different episode dealing with the opioid epidemic, which really could’ve used its own episode. And I agree about how the trope of going after someone bigger gets old, with Nolan begging Jack to give him the go ahead and Jack ponders it and then gives him the green light - that trope is overdone. That being said I actually thought in this case they made the right call - their murder case was less than stellar and there was a good chance the jury might return a manslaughter verdict, so I thought taking the plea and then prosecuting the uncle was the right call.

I was surprised the defense didn’t make a bigger deal of the fact that Maroun went to the killer’s house and gave him the drugs so he could testify and then he lied about it on the stand, I was shocked that the defense didn’t accuse the DA’s of suborning perjury with that, that would’ve been a much better shot at a mistrial than bringing up Nolan’s brothers death. Yet the defense just dropped it after he asked the question and the killer said he wasn’t high. That was a flaw IMO, and while I don’t think the DA’s did suborn perjury since Price had no knowledge that he was high or of Maroun’s actions, it was still a flaw that the defense didn’t bring it up again, and I think Maroun’s actions warranted a call to Jack about what happened, remember it was revealed in an SVU episode that Barba once did the same thing, he gave a witness drugs so they could testify and when it came out he was suspended for a month.

So this episode was enjoyable overall - the police part was the best it’s been in any episode, while the legal stuff took a totally different direction, it was still entertaining but there were some flaws and I’m getting sick of the trope of going after someone bigger than the killer. So the first half was great, while the second half was somewhat shaky. Overall this was pretty good though.

[WendyCR72]

34 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

I'm jealous that SVU and OC are getting new showrunners since our showrunner wrote the episode and leaned into his worse tendencies:  dramatic music and heavy ripped from the headlines. 

I knew SVU was getting a new show runner, but OC is, too?

Dick Wolf ought to go outside his trusted list of names again. A new guy (Chris Brancato) was the EP for the final season of Criminal Intent, and I think that new blood allowed the show to go out on a high note.

But I guess we'll see if he sticks to his trusted people or expands his horizons.

As for this case, it almost seems like the arc with Ella and screwing people over was just...forgotten in the latter half once the drug angle came in. (Yes, I know her boyfriend was charged, but it just seemed to fizzle.)

Forgot to add: Yeah, things are still equal in terms of the police and courtroom sides. As @Door County Cherry said, the show no longer goes to commercial break after the opening credits as it used to, so I think that messes with viewers' heads as far as the pacing goes.

[Door County Cherry]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I knew SVU was getting a new show runner, but OC is, too?

Technically, I was referring to the current new show runner.  I don't know if he's any good or not since I don't watch the show.  

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

Technically, I was referring to the current new show runner.  I don't know if he's any good or not since I don't watch the show.  

Ah, gotcha!

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

our showrunner wrote the episode and leaned into his worse tendencies:  dramatic music and heavy ripped from the headlines. 

What was that dirge music at one point? I’m sure I’ve heard it in really old B&W movies? Maybe it’s in public domain and saved on copyright fees??

I had an exhausting few days and fell asleep a couple of times. Not sure if I’ll rewatch. 
 

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I was surprised the defense didn’t make a bigger deal of the fact that Maroun went to the killer’s house and gave him the drugs so he could testify and then he lied about it on the stand, I was shocked that the defense didn’t accuse the DA’s of suborning perjury with that, that would’ve been a much better shot at a mistrial than bringing up Nolan’s brothers death. Yet the defense just dropped it after he asked the question and the killer said he wasn’t high. That was a flaw IMO, and while I don’t think the DA’s did suborn perjury since Price had no knowledge that he was high or of Maroun’s actions, it was still a flaw that the defense didn’t bring it up again, and I think Maroun’s actions warranted a call to Jack about what happened, remember it was revealed in an SVU episode that Barba once did the same thing, he gave a witness drugs so they could testify and when it came out he was suspended for a month

I had similar thoughts and memories of how the drugged witness situation was dealt with. 
But these new episodes seem to consistently leave bits for us to figure out. In this case, when opposing counsel asked the witness if he was “high” and he said he was not, was that supposed to infer that he had merely taken his prescribed dose, which questioning further would undermine the defense of the pharmacy company uncle?

[dttruman]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The second half felt like a totally different episode dealing with the opioid epidemic, which really could’ve used its own episode. And I agree about how the trope of going after someone bigger gets old, with Nolan begging Jack to give him the go ahead and Jack ponders it and then gives him the green light - that trope is overdone. That being said I actually thought in this case they made the right call - their murder case was less than stellar and there was a good chance the jury might return a manslaughter verdict, so I thought taking the plea and then prosecuting the uncle was the right call.

I was surprised the defense didn’t make a bigger deal of the fact that Maroun went to the killer’s house and gave him the drugs so he could testify and then he lied about it on the stand, I was shocked that the defense didn’t accuse the DA’s of suborning perjury with that, that would’ve been a much better shot at a mistrial than bringing up Nolan’s brothers death. Yet the defense just dropped it after he asked the question and the killer said he wasn’t high. That was a flaw IMO, and while I don’t think the DA’s did suborn perjury since Price had no knowledge that he was high or of Maroun’s actions, it was still a flaw that the defense didn’t bring it up again, and I think Maroun’s actions warranted a call to Jack about what happened, remember it was revealed in an SVU episode that Barba once did the same thing, he gave a witness drugs so they could testify and when it came out he was suspended for a month.

Yeah, I thought the producers and writers left the defense kind of hamstrung here and I thought with what they gave us as viewers the defense could have presented a better side. I also thought the judge gave Price a lot of leeway and in his final summation it was a little too much. I wonder why they didn't show the defense's final summation? This one sided trial reminds me of the episode where McCoy took on the Gun manufacturers and he went a little overboard also. This episode also had a kind of a slanted social issue push to me, like a couple of previous episodes where the verdicts seemed predetermined

Edited May 13, 2022 by dttruman

[TV Diva Queen]

11 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I think the policing portion is probably about the same length; it's just that they go right into the show after the credits roll instead of taking a commercial break.  So the lawyer portion seems to start in the first half but doesn't really.  Plus, the policing portion usually involves more characters than the law side given that they're interviewing a bunch of suspects.

There was a weather interruption so I missed the second half.  Did they say who the victim of their "manslaughter" was?  The counselor?  

I know L&O likes to swing for the fences but I really miss small cases that aren't about something more.  For instance, I would have preferred if this case was just about a bunch of people screwed over by "Ella" and the prosecutors having to deal with a woman who the jury won't like and a defense attorney throwing out other potential suspects. 

I'm jealous that SVU and OC are getting new showrunners since our showrunner wrote the episode and leaned into his worse tendencies:  dramatic music and heavy ripped from the headlines. 

I remember hearing a long time ago that shows will do this when ratings are not the best....they want the view to stay on the channel and not flip and leave during a commercial break.  

[Door County Cherry]

13 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I remember hearing a long time ago that shows will do this when ratings are not the best....they want the view to stay on the channel and not flip and leave during a commercial break.  

This is how they've done it since the reboot started before they had any ratings.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I actually thought in this case they made the right call - their murder case was less than stellar and there was a good chance the jury might return a manslaughter verdict

Same. It's pretty standard to include lesser charges so that the jury can convict the defendant of something if they think the facts don't fit the higher charge. I don't know why whoever it was got bent out of shape at making that deal.

I liked the police work this ep. No whistling! And we saw Bernard and Cosgrove do more than interview two people. 

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I was surprised the defense didn’t make a bigger deal of the fact that Maroun went to the killer’s house and gave him the drugs

The defense didn't know this happened. The guy lied about being high anyway, so there was no way to find out how he got the drugs. It would be easy enough to say he got them at Riker's. This is the second shady thing Maroun has done for a case, which makes me wonder about her ethics. 

[TV Diva Queen]

1 hour ago, Door County Cherry said:

This is how they've done it since the reboot started before they had any ratings.

yep - to keep you locked in.  They did it for a minute with OC and now there is commercials after the song.

[leocadia]

Does anyone else spend a good 60 seconds or so trying to figure out which episode it is before  remembering that it's new, or is it just me?

Having watched "Inventing Anna" fairly recently, I wish the whole episode had been about the fake socialite.  As noted above, it seemed like there was more than enough material for two separate episodes.  Combining the themes shortchanged both of the ideas.

[Prairie Rose]

7 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Same. It's pretty standard to include lesser charges so that the jury can convict the defendant of something if they think the facts don't fit the higher charge. I don't know why whoever it was got bent out of shape at making that deal.

I liked the police work this ep. No whistling! And we saw Bernard and Cosgrove do more than interview two people. 

The defense didn't know this happened. The guy lied about being high anyway, so there was no way to find out how he got the drugs. It would be easy enough to say he got them at Riker's. This is the second shady thing Maroun has done for a case, which makes me wonder about her ethics. 

She is easily the least convincing ADA this show has ever had, and by far the weakest character the show has right now. With a renewal coming for S22, they need to reassess the ADA role.

[853fisher]

I won't be surprised if we got the setup for Maroun to quit / be fired.  I guess we'll see next week.

[Kemper]

I really do enjoy this show coming back.  When I said about the "policing" part seeming to get short-changed, I think it is because I do not enjoy either the actor or actress who play the "lawyer/ADA" roles.  Both are the weakest link on this reboot; I guess no one who played ADAs on the earlier version is available; but surely this segment of the show could be better.  If the writing is not the best (I am not saying the problem is the writing) - the actors should be able to make up a bit with charisma or skill.  Both are lacking.

[Xeliou66]

12 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

She is easily the least convincing ADA this show has ever had, and by far the weakest character the show has right now. With a renewal coming for S22, they need to reassess the ADA role.

I don’t think Maroun is the least convincing ADA - both Serena and Borgia lacked passion and were lifeless much of the time. I would say Serena is the least convincing. I don’t have a major issue with Maroun but it does seem that both her and Price are rather low key and lack fire at times, not that that’s really a bad thing, it can be done well, for example Ben Stone was very stoic and reserved and was a great character, but yeah I would like a bit more passion from the DA’s side. If they do replace a character I hope it’s Maroun, she has the least amount of personality and is the most easily replaceable, it might be nice to have a character with a bit more personality as ADA. 

[853fisher]

12 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t think Maroun is the least convincing ADA - both Serena and Borgia lacked passion and were lifeless much of the time. I would say Serena is the least convincing,

Is this because she's a lesbian?

[dttruman]

53 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

She is easily the least convincing ADA this show has ever had, and by far the weakest character the show has right now. With a renewal coming for S22, they need to reassess the ADA role.

Do you think they have made her a very secondary character? It seems like they have really pushed the character of Price a little too overboard, IMO. In the past they made the lady ADA a very integral part of the prosecution team. The other ones from the past were there to keep McCoy grounded and make sure he didn't over step his authority or be too excessive. Kincaid, Sotherlyn, Ross, and Carmichael were excellent ADAs who weren't afraid to tell McCoy he crossed the line. Rubirosa also had her moments with Cutter. I can even remember Schiff warning McCoy he was going to far. They need to develop Maroun's character better and make her a little more important to the plots. I am also a little tired of Price kind of over enunciating some of his words. You can tell by his over grinning as he talks or makes his speeches. It looks like he is over working his mouth when he talks.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Kemper said:

. . . I think it is because I do not enjoy either the actor or actress who play the "lawyer/ADA" roles.  Both are the weakest link on this reboot; I guess no one who played ADAs on the earlier version is available; but surely this segment of the show could be better.  If the writing is not the best (I am not saying the problem is the writing) - the actors should be able to make up a bit with charisma or skill.  Both are lacking.

I see it more as the writing for the EADA and the ADA is so grim. 🤷‍♀️
Would it kill them to allow the attorneys to make a few witty, wry comments? 

Too bad(?) Camryn Manheim wasn't cast as the EADA (I could see her ripping the opposing counsel's arguments to shreds) with a youthful male (maybe non-binary and/or POC) ADA.

[dttruman]

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

Too bad(?) Camryn Manheim wasn't cast as the EADA (I could see her ripping the opposing counsel's arguments to shreds) with a youthful male (maybe non-binary and/or POC) ADA.

That would be interesting!

[Kemper]

I thought about Camryn M, too. 

[Samsnee]

I love how whenever the defendant is a high powered CEO or someone that is famous, they still just have one lawyer and not an army of them like in real life. 

[CrystalBlue]

7 hours ago, dttruman said:

Do you think they have made her a very secondary character? It seems like they have really pushed the character of Price a little too overboard, IMO. In the past they made the lady ADA a very integral part of the prosecution team. The other ones from the past were there to keep McCoy grounded and make sure he didn't over step his authority or be too excessive. Kincaid, Sotherlyn, Ross, and Carmichael were excellent ADAs who weren't afraid to tell McCoy he crossed the line. Rubirosa also had her moments with Cutter. I can even remember Schiff warning McCoy he was going to far. They need to develop Maroun's character better and make her a little more important to the plots. I am also a little tired of Price kind of over enunciating some of his words. You can tell by his over grinning as he talks or makes his speeches. It looks like he is over working his mouth when he talks.

Hugh Dancy is English so I think he's trying to keep in character doing an American accent.

[Prevailing Wind]

52 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Hugh Dancy is English so I think he's trying to keep in character doing an American accent.

Well, Linus Roache did it much better. The only time I noticed it was when he pronounce Christian as "Chris-tee-an" instead of the American "Chris-chin"

[andromeda331]

I'm surprised Maroun got the murderer drugs. I don't think that was a good idea.

[Prairie Rose]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I see it more as the writing for the EADA and the ADA is so grim. 🤷‍♀️
Would it kill them to allow the attorneys to make a few witty, wry comments? 

Too bad(?) Camryn Manheim wasn't cast as the EADA (I could see her ripping the opposing counsel's arguments to shreds) with a youthful male (maybe non-binary and/or POC) ADA.

I guess they figured CM already had done that (The Practice) so they made her a cop. Price/Maroun are easily the dullest ADAs in the show's history. I honestly can't tell if the problem is on the actors or the writing. 

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

Price/Maroun are easily the dullest ADAs in the show's history. I honestly can't tell if the problem is on the actors or the writing

Looking at the enormous TV I inherited from my son-in-law, Hugh Dancy and Odelya Halevi seem to be emoting their faces off, heh, so I’m blaming the writing. 
But I suppose a bit more could be done with the framing of the shots too, so they’re not so many talking head close ups.

[Trey]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm surprised Maroun got the murderer drugs. I don't think that was a good idea.

Also, I thought the murderer would have been more convincing while testifying against his uncle if he were going through withdrawals.  Less coherent, maybe.

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm surprised Maroun got the murderer drugs. I don't think that was a good idea.

It wasn't a good idea, but they needed the guy coherent enough to testify. He was already crashing, and I doubt things would have been better the next day.

[Raja]

On 5/13/2022 at 3:20 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t think Maroun is the least convincing ADA - both Serena and Borgia lacked passion and were lifeless much of the time. I would say Serena is the least convincing. I don’t have a major issue with Maroun but it does seem that both her and Price are rather low key and lack fire at times, not that that’s really a bad thing, it can be done well, for example Ben Stone was very stoic and reserved and was a great character, but yeah I would like a bit more passion from the DA’s side. If they do replace a character I hope it’s Maroun, she has the least amount of personality and is the most easily replaceable, it might be nice to have a character with a bit more personality as ADA. 

As I was watching with the arraignment and ADA Maroun doing the additional pre trail investigation my thought was they took an old Abby Charmichael script and adapted for her. Then came the twist of her going to get his "medication". I guess she is legally and possibly ethically covered because there was a prescription even if the current doctors at the jail/prison didn't prescribe them.

I do wonder if he is so rich that nobody touches his place as he serves his 15 year plea?

Edited May 15, 2022 by Raja

[Joimiaroxeu]

What was going on with Jack's face? Sunburn? He seemed more flushed than usual.

This was one of the worst episodes of L&O I can recall watching. AFAIC this one wasn't ripped from the headlines; it came from a roll of toilet paper. Between Maroun giving the perp/star witness a fix and Price not recusing himself due to his being personally compromised on the topic of opiate addiction, the guilty verdict was laughable to me.

A crossover next week by Olivia Benson? KMN.

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

this one wasn't ripped from the headlines; it came from a roll of toilet paper

🤣Touché!
Although my problem with the scripts this season is that they seem to be missing a few squares.😉

But, now that you mention it, I didn't really understand why Price having a vendetta for Oxycodone pushers was a reason to ask him to recuse himself. 
I mean, it's not like he was representing the person he believed was guilty. 
Wouldn't most seasoned prosecutors have seen up close and personal the results of the kinds of crimes allegedly committed by those they are prosecuting?
Admittedly, I slept through the part where Price's past grievance was first brought up. But I understood there was something there when they had to talk to the judge in chambers about it, and I don't see how that matters if he's not the one who is supposed to be acting in the best interests of the accused. 

[KittyQ]

On 5/13/2022 at 3:00 PM, Prairie Rose said:

She is easily the least convincing ADA this show has ever had, and by far the weakest character the show has right now. With a renewal coming for S22, they need to reassess the ADA role.

I am not very impressed with either ADA on this version of the show. When I think back to some of the ones in the past, they were stronger characters and brought more legal weight to the trials. Nolan seems on the verge of crying at some point in the episodes, and Maroun always looks like she's afraid there's going to be a pop quiz. As for the drug delivery, why the heck didn't she dump that problem in Nolan's lap and let him take whatever heat results? At the minimum, make him tell her to do it.