S03.E04: The Big Payback

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

I was legit scared watching this.

Original air date 2022.04.07

[bobbyjoe]

I have to be totally honest:  I don’t know how I feel if it turns out this season keeps mixing in anthology episodes instead of keeping the focus on our main characters. 

It probably wouldn’t bug me if we hadn’t had to wait sooooooo long for the show to come back, but I do want to see our main crew.  One of the great things about Atlanta is that its been able to use our main characters in creative and fun ways to both give us absurd humor and social commentary through them.  Last week’s episode is a good example of that.  Even the weirdest episodes, like Teddy Perkins, had connections back to our main characters.  If they keep stepping outside the characters, though, it’s going to start feeling like they’re losing interest and would rather be doing a spin-off anthology show.

One detour into a “special episode” (like the season premiere) is one thing— and I didn’t think tonight’s episode was bad— but if this is going to be a regular thing this season, I dunno. Maybe I’m just a little burned out on anthologies.

[Crashcourse]

Nevermind.  I have no words....

Edited April 8, 2022 by Crashcourse

[heatherchandler]

53 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Nevermind.  I have no words....

I am now very curious what you initially wrote...

I liked the 1st episode of the season, but I don't like when the show deviates from the story of Earn and the group.  

[AngieBee1]

The Big Paybeck is a spiritual cousin to The Chappelle Show's reparations skit, but much, much, much darker.

The funniest thing to me is that when President Obama was elected there were whingers who really believed he would enact reparations like this.

I wish there was more of a connective tissue to the ensemble to this episode (like how we at least see Earn awaken at the end of "Three Slaps"), if they wan to do anthology eps making this TALES OF ATLANTA, they should at least do it penultimate episode of the season.

Interesting that E - the ill-fated man in the hotel lobby - was the same man in the boat in "Three Slaps". Maybe he's the specter of race relations.

Marshall telling his wife, "She was white the other day" is particularly funny because in her texts to him the day before she used the white thumbs up emoji and the next day a brown hand emoji.

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

I am now very curious what you initially wrote...

I liked the 1st episode of the season, but I don't like when the show deviates from the story of Earn and the group.  

I wasn't expecting a reparations episode.  I wouldn't categorize this show as a "comedy" anymore.

[JenE4]

21 minutes ago, AngieBee1 said:

The Big Paybeck is a spiritual cousin to The Chappelle Show's reparations skit, but much, much, much darker.

The funniest thing to me is that when President Obama was elected there were whingers who really believed he would enact reparations like this.

I wish there was more of a connective tissue to the ensemble to this episode (like how we at least see Earn awaken at the end of "Three Slaps"), if they wan to do anthology eps making this TALES OF ATLANTA, they should at least do it penultimate episode of the season.

Interesting that E - the ill-fated man in the hotel lobby - was the same man in the boat in "Three Slaps". Maybe he's the specter of race relations.

Marshall telling his wife, "She was white the other day" is particularly funny because in her texts to him the day before she used the white thumbs up emoji and the next day a brown hand emoji.

Ah, I didn’t catch the hotel guy being the same guy in the boat. His name was Ernest, so I was trying to find the parallel between E and Earn—the earnest narrator? (But now that you pointed it out, he really was the same character in both episodes with those deep soliloquies.) But at first I thought he was at the hotel hiding out like the other guy—but then I thought no, this guy sought out the family his ancestors owned and is choosing to pay the reparations to balance the universe—but then he shot himself?! Didn’t see that coming. This episode really did a good job of having me on a perpetual roller coaster of, yes, that’s reasonable to wait a minute… This show is always fantastic at veering into absurdity as social commentary. The first two seasons put a spotlight on racism, and this season is going hard after suggested methods to “fix” the problem. (No doubt coming up will be a defund the police episode.) While the consensus seems to be that we’re missing our main characters, I understand why if they have a very specific story to tell, it wouldn’t have worked with our beloved crew. I guess they could have at least had them eating at the restaurant—but if they’re on tour in Europe supposedly maybe it wouldn’t have made sense. Meanwhile, back in America… I guess Tracey or some other character we know could have been featured—even in just a cameo like the guy berating the barista which you didn’t know what was happening until in retrospect he’s trying to get this woman who’s probably making barely over minimum wage to pay reparations on behalf of her ancestors.

[aghst]

Marshall had a pretty good attitude.  Lost his job, lost his family, probably lost his place.

He’s paying 15% of his waiter’s paycheck to Sheniqua but says at least his tips aren’t garnished.

Even at the beginning, Marshall wasn’t as upset as others, like the guy in the elevator, maybe because he didn’t think it would happen to him?

The final scene is that most of the patrons at what looked like a pricey restaurant were all black and the wait staff were white.  Though in the kitchen, it was more mixed.

If Donald Glover is saying it wouldn’t be the end of the world, black people having more privilege, it’s probably too simplistic.  If all the courts, including the Supreme Court, upheld the precedent of descendants of slaveholders being financially responsible for reparations to descendants of slaves, there would be all kinds of upheaval.

First, some people would react violently.  Second, there would probably be a political movement to punish the judges who upheld the precedent.  Politicians would win and lose based on how they stood on this idea of personal reparations.  Many people who generally support reparations may not support personal reparations.

 

If they involved the regular cast, maybe Alfred would have been more in the face of the descendant of the slave owner who owned his ancestor than Sheniqua.

 

[Rorysmom]

I took the guy who killed himself to be the absurd personification of the "self-hating white person." At least, the way they are seen by other white people who just can't understand why they stand up for black people so tough and seem to do it at the expense of their own kind. The ones who "hate their white roots."

It is interesting, these examinations of racial-based themes in stand-alone episodes. Doing a full season of stuff like this would get too heavy. But interspersed in a show known for thematic exploration, I'm good with it.

Tulsa Massacre

Interracial adoption

White savior gone really, horribly wrong

Reparations 

What is next, I wonder. Yes, probably police brutality, but I wonder if that might pop up in them happening upon a BLM protest in Europe. I would love to see their take on a protest.

Oh, maybe black people getting stuck in a cult.

Even at its funniest, I've never considered Atlanta to be a comedy. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Rorysmom

[possibilities]

I'm fine with whatever ride they take me on. 

Are they going to have a loudly sobbing woman sitting outside the building in every episode?

Marshall shoplifted those biscotti (or whatever they were), in the opening scene, didn't he? Seems like his character was established right out of the gate. Polite on the surface, but only as a cover for a deeper entitlement.

Edited April 9, 2022 by possibilities

[Rorysmom]

29 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I'm fine with whatever ride they take me on. 

Are they going to have a loudly sobbing woman sitting outside the building in every episode?

Marshall shoplifted those biscotti (or whatever they were), in the opening scene, didn't he? Seems like his character was established right out of the gate. Polite on the surface, but only as a cover for a deeper entitlement.

I think he absent-mindedly put them in his pocket. But he was pleased with getting away with it when he realized.

 

[JenE4]

31 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I'm fine with whatever ride they take me on. 

Are they going to have a loudly sobbing woman sitting outside the building in every episode?

Marshall shoplifted those biscotti (or whatever they were), in the opening scene, didn't he? Seems like his character was established right out of the gate. Polite on the surface, but only as a cover for a deeper entitlement.

Sticking the madelines in his pocket was an honest mistake. He was distracted by his NPR show, and took his AirPods out and stuck everything in his pocket when he realized there was yelling but it was his turn. However, it was definitely to illustrate his white his privilege. He didn’t even give a second thought to going back in to pay for it. There’s no consequences for him—just his lucky day. If a black person stole a package of cookies, he would have gotten the cops called on him.

[AngieBee1]

Quote

maybe because he didn’t think it would happen to him?

Yeah, he very likely thought only those who were wealthy would get hit like the Tesla investor.
 

Quote

If Donald Glover is saying it wouldn’t be the end of the world, black people having more privilege, it’s probably too simplistic.  If all the courts, including the Supreme Court, upheld the precedent of descendants of slaveholders being financially responsible for reparations to descendants of slaves, there would be all kinds of upheaval.

The notion that reparations would create privilege, to me, is too simplistic. It won't change whatever biases that other people may have about Black people, it would likely make people double-down on their biases. The fact that Marshall's coworker remarked how lucky their Black coworkers were to not have to worry about reparations, just showed the blind spot she and many have.  The reparations were born out of the subjugation of their ancestors; people enslaved, families ripped away from each other, maimed, raped, killed, history lost, but they're supposed to be lucky because they get some money.  The  money is not the point; not everyone's reparations came with money attached - example: Marshall's coworker who had to wear a shirt that read "I Owned Slaves").  I think the writers just wanted to examine what would be the after-effects if American Descendants of Slaves (ADOS) did get reparations; what would that look like.  
 

Quote

If they involved the regular cast, maybe Alfred would have been more in the face of the descendant of the slave owner who owned his ancestor than Sheniqua.

The problem with inserting the cast in this in any other way beyond them dreaming that this happened would mean that we are to treat this as if it has really happened in their world. But as invisible cars exists in their world, why not reparations? 
 

Quote

I think he absent-mindedly put them in his pocket. But he was pleased with getting away with it when he realized.

He was very pleased.  Then life caught up with him. 

[UnknownK]

I think they went out of their way to make marshal sympathetic. The man who said he deserved what happened just shot himself while marshal who didn't think he did anything wrong didn't fight it and just went with the flow even after losing everything. 

The whole idea of reparations is kind of funny to me because if you married into a family after the abolition of slavery how could you be held liable to pay for it? Something like 25% of southerners owned slaves and after the abolition of slavery they pretty much lost all their worth outside of land holdings many of which were burned to the ground during the war or taken away (Arlington National Cemetery for example was land taken from the father of General Robert E. Lee).

I don't mind a few stories without the main cast in them as long as they don't make up most of the season.

 

[aghst]

Sheniqua was asking for $3 million.

I don't think Marshall was worth anywhere near that.

His place inside looked nice but small.  It looked like a motel from the outside, with the doors close to each other, though it was clean.  Depending on where he lived, maybe it's worth a few hundred thousand, nowhere near $3 million/

Presumably a judge would determine what he owes in reparations and set up the legal mechanisms for transferring whatever assets he had and how much of his income would be garnished.

So maybe he's already given up his place but with a lower-paying job now, he'd probably be struggling to pay the rent and it sounded like 15% was a higher garnishment percentage than usual.

He'd have trouble not only paying bills for himself but if he had to pay any kind of child support or alimony.

Unless that restaurant attracts a very affluent and generous clientele which runs up big food and drinks bills, tips lavishly.

Maybe that was what the ending was suppose to show, these formerly formerly professional or white collar workers who probably had an upper middle class lifestyle (high 5 figure or into 6-figure incomes) now depend on the largesse of the mostly black clientele of the restaurant to make ends meet.

The Ringer Prestige podcast interpreted the episode as Marshall and other white people slowly becoming black or living like black people currently.  They also saw a horror element, like his life slowly changing and then him fleeing his home while the young black guy chased him like the Terminator when Sheniqua pointed him out.

[ridethemaverick]

2 hours ago, UnknownK said:

I think they went out of their way to make marshal sympathetic. The man who said he deserved what happened just shot himself while marshal who didn't think he did anything wrong didn't fight it and just went with the flow even after losing everything. 

The whole idea of reparations is kind of funny to me because if you married into a family after the abolition of slavery how could you be held liable to pay for it? Something like 25% of southerners owned slaves and after the abolition of slavery they pretty much lost all their worth outside of land holdings many of which were burned to the ground during the war or taken away (Arlington National Cemetery for example was land taken from the father of General Robert E. Lee).

I don't mind a few stories without the main cast in them as long as they don't make up most of the season.

 

The estimated value of slave labor in today's dollars is around 5 trillion. The US as a country got filthy rich off the backs of African Americans. Much like the government (rightfully) has paid reparations to other groups, they owe AAs as well. Nothing funny about that, imo, but ymmv. 

Despite agreeing with reparations as a concept, I didn't enjoy this episode.

[UnknownK]

I agree that some people got very wealthy out of the slave trade and cotton production. Most of that cotton was sold overseas and more than likely caused the industrial revolution turning that cotton into clothes and rugs etc.

 

[SleepyAndClumsy]

I took the madelines to mean that he got to enjoy something without paying for it, just the way he lives a lifestyle that his white privilege helped him attain. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by SleepyAndClumsy
Edited for typo.

[Zmanda]

Absolutely 100% think black people should have reparations in some form, but they should come strictly from the government.  I don’t agree that Marshall has to pay for his great great grandfathers sins. Also, where does it end?  Does his daughter have to pay for Shanequa’s children?  And so on and so on?  
I understand Donald Glover and crew are creating to get you to think and to get a reaction.   But it is entertainment, and I just was not entertained by this episode. 

[tennisgurl]

This episode was interesting, but I admit to wanting to get back to the main characters. One anthology episodes a season is fine with me, but having two so close together, after waiting so long for this show to be back, feels like a bit too much for me. I can imagine they didn't want to attach this episode to the shows main narrative, as it feels like its basically an alternate universe that would affect the shows world too much, but I hope that we can mostly focus on the main characters after this. In previous seasons, even when things got really weird like in Teddy Perkins, it was still attached to the main characters and often to the story as a whole, this season has been part story part anthology. Both anthology episodes have been really interesting, so I cant be too annoyed, but I worry that the show might end up getting more interested in these stand alone episodes instead of the actual plot. 

I took Marshall finding the cookie to be, as others have said, to be symbolic of his white privilege. Its not something he really noticed, it wasn't out of real malevolence, it was just something he quietly enjoyed without thinking about it. Then he kept trying to deny having to give up his lifestyle until the very end, where he has seemingly just accepted things and that this is what he needs to do. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Evie]

I thought this episode was really interesting and made me think. I support reparations from the government but showing it happen this way, really raised some interesting issues. "You were white yesterday" made me laugh but was absolutely the way it would go. Really, the episode was just pointing out unfairness of having to deal with the consequences of your ancestors. Some people say "Slavery was a long time ago. Get over it" but black people have to deal with the consequences of slavery every day. Even when slavery was abolished, it was never dealt with and as a result, a system of inequality continued that has lasted centuries. White people had to deal with the consequences of slavery here but just like black people, Marshall didn't really deserve the hand he was dealt. 

I found it depressingly realistic that even when Marshall lost everything there was still some white privilege at play. He and the other whites worked the front of the house and at least got tips while the Latinos were relegated to the kitchen and had to take the bus. 

[Cotypubby]

If Donald Glover wants to make an anthology series about being Black in America, great make that, but that is not what this show has been for the first two seasons. One fantasy divergent episode a season OK, but most of season 3 hasn’t had anything to do with the characters that this show was supposed to be about. 
 

Am I supposed to think that reparations the way the episode showed them being taken from people is supposed to be a good thing? That Marshall losing his home and family is somehow fair and just because of slavery? Why is the answer to bring other people down? The Black people weren’t shown in that great a light either, so I don’t know what I’m supposed to get out of this.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Cotypubby

[DrSpaceman73]

This was more like a back mirror episode rip off than Atlanta. I was confused half tge episode where it was going and how it related. 

Season is very uneven. Not impessed 

[DrSpaceman73]

Also a serious answer on how reparations can start that is timely, relevant and doable is student loans. 

Any African American with student loans right now, they're gone. 

I know there is technical questions of who is African American in that but it can be worked out 

Is that the only answer?  No. But that is the easy, doable starting point. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by DrSpaceman73

[UnknownK]

On 5/21/2022 at 10:08 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

Also a serious answer on how reparations can start that is timely, relevant and doable is student loans. 

Any African American with student loans right now, they're gone. 

So the real poor black people who could not afford college and never went get shafted while those who could afford it get it free? Might as well raise the taxes on black blue collar workers to pay for it just to rub it in.

[Bluesky]

Hating this obsession with White people.  Every episode.   I fast forwarded this one because it was unoriginal and predictable.   Sucky season.  Preachy.  

[Bluesky]

On 4/8/2022 at 9:35 PM, possibilities said:

I'm fine with whatever ride they take me on. 

Are they going to have a loudly sobbing woman sitting outside the building in every episode?

Marshall shoplifted those biscotti (or whatever they were), in the opening scene, didn't he? Seems like his character was established right out of the gate. Polite on the surface, but only as a cover for a deeper entitlement.

The guy who was ranting at the cashier put them in Marshall’s pocket.   I’m not sure what entitlement you saw.  He’s a divorced guy going to work every day, seeing his child, hopes to move back home.   

On 4/10/2022 at 7:34 PM, SleepyAndClumsy said:

I took the madelines to mean that he got to enjoy something without paying for it, just the way he lives a lifestyle that his white privilege helped him attain. 

I’ll repeat it. The guy at the store put the cookies in Marshall’s pocket.  

[xaxat]

On 6/8/2022 at 11:35 PM, Bluesky said:

I’ll repeat it. The guy at the store put the cookies in Marshall’s pocket.

This is not correct. Marshall picks up the Madeleines from a store display as he is waiting in line and puts them in his pocket when the cashier attempts to get his attention.

Edited June 11, 2022 by xaxat

[Court]

On 6/11/2022 at 11:46 AM, xaxat said:

This is not correct. Marshall picks up the Madeleines from a store display as he is waiting in line and puts them in his pocket when the cashier attempts to get his attention.

Correct. I went back and rewatched. Marshall put them in his own pocket. 

[lasu]

On 6/8/2022 at 11:29 PM, Bluesky said:

Hating this obsession with White people.  Every episode.   I fast forwarded this one because it was unoriginal and predictable.   Sucky season.  Preachy.  

I mean...how do you know if the episode was unoriginal and predictable if you fast forwarded it?  I didn't find it preachy, but very thought provoking.  I didn't agree with the way reparations were handled, but it definitely got me thinking.

On 6/8/2022 at 11:35 PM, Bluesky said:

The guy who was ranting at the cashier put them in Marshall’s pocket.   I’m not sure what entitlement you saw.  He’s a divorced guy going to work every day, seeing his child, hopes to move back home.

Even if the other guy put them in Marshall's pocket, it wouldn't change the fact he got to enjoy something he didn't pay for without consequence.  His shoplifting might have been accidental, but he felt comfortable keeping and enjoying the cookies, rather than returning them or paying for them.  He didn't even think twice.  I wouldn't say this is entitled as much as privileged, because he never for a second thought about the possible ramifications of having stolen something, even if it wasn't on purpose.  I think the contrast is that a person of color A) would be more cognizant and not put it in their pocket in the first place, but B) if they did, their first reaction probably wouldn't have been delight at free cookies, it probably would have been a moment of horror at how badly that mistake could have cost them.

[Bluesky]

3 hours ago, lasu said:

I mean...how do you know if the episode was unoriginal and predictable if you fast forwarded it?  I didn't find it preachy, but very thought provoking.  I didn't agree with the way reparations were handled, but it definitely got me thinking.

Even if the other guy put them in Marshall's pocket, it wouldn't change the fact he got to enjoy something he didn't pay for without consequence.  His shoplifting might have been accidental, but he felt comfortable keeping and enjoying the cookies, rather than returning them or paying for them.  He didn't even think twice.  I wouldn't say this is entitled as much as privileged, because he never for a second thought about the possible ramifications of having stolen something, even if it wasn't on purpose.  I think the contrast is that a person of color A) would be more cognizant and not put it in their pocket in the first place, but B) if they did, their first reaction probably wouldn't have been delight at free cookies, it probably would have been a moment of horror at how badly that mistake could have cost them.

I was wrong about the cookies, I based it on his look of surprise when he looked into his pocket as if he didn’t know they were there. 
I do think the word “privileged “ in this scene is a bit overkill.  Petty shoplifting is done by people of all colors, shapes, sizes, age, income levels.  
To think that people of color have a moment of horror is so ridiculous.   I can only assume you don’t know too many people “of color”.