Candy - General Discussion

[SunnyBeBe]

They say it’s a Methodist church…I think in the first episode.  I checked and confirmed that’s consistent with the real one.  Maybe, they forgot to change the sign on the building, if it says otherwise.

I won’t see the next episode until later this week.  
 

 

[Cinnabon]

9 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

That's sad that apparently Marriage Encounter was working for Allan and Betty, but then after the baby came, their relationship suffered again.  I guess we'll find out why in the next episode.

They were actually still doing ok right before she was killed. They had plans to travel to Europe together (without the kids) when he got back from the Minneapolis trip. Betty was still anxious about him being gone all weekend , but they were shown discussing their upcoming Europe trip and how excited they were right before he left.

[Cinnabon]

7 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

had a heck of a time finding this thread. "Candy" doesn't provide any results with a forum search.

Same. I also had the issue with “Bad Vegan.” It’s a problem when newcomers here (and even us veterans) have so much trouble finding these shows. They won’t come up when using the home page search function or the alphabetical show index. I think the site and these forums would get a lot more traffic if all shows could easily be found. One of the moderators told me a couple days ago that the techs were currently working on this issue, so hopefully this changes soon.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Armchair Critic]

On 5/10/2022 at 10:06 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

It’s nice to see Justin Timberlake in a dramatic role.

 

I thought you were joking, how did you see Episode 4 early?

I noticed one of the other cops is played by Melanie Lynskey's (Betty) husband Jason Ritter.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Armchair Critic

[larapu2000]

What kind of sociopath hosts a baby shower for the wife of the man she's having an affair with?

Apparently one that later murders her with an ax.

Also, Allen's fastidiousness with grilling cracked me up.

Edited May 12, 2022 by larapu2000

[SlovakPrincess]

Maybe I've just watched too many crime shows in my time, but it was very frustrating at first when the cops weren't asking questions to figure out the timeline and time of death.   But they did eventually zero in on Candy.

Elaine the "nice" neighbor lady, already giving poor little Christina a complex about food.  GRRRR.  Obviously not the worst thing that happened to that kid in this episode, but still.  I got verklempt when the other little girl cried with Christina and walked down the aisle of the church with her -- all these sweet kids are gonna be messed up for life.  

I may just be going insane at this point, but I kinda liked Candy's outfit in the police station. 

I felt so bad for Allan this episode.

[Ss55]

Enjoying this so far, and I think Jessica Biel is doing a great job. 

They had Target stores back then?  I had no idea.

[OpieTaylor]

39 minutes ago, Ss55 said:

Enjoying this so far, and I think Jessica Biel is doing a great job. 

They had Target stores back then?  I had no idea.

I was born in 1962 and I remember Target stores growing up

[Ss55]

36 minutes ago, OpieTaylor said:

I was born in 1962 and I remember Target stores growing up

Oh ok - it must have just been my area that there were none.  This whole time I thought it was a "newer" store!

[Armchair Critic]

We didn't get Target here until the late 80's.

So did Candy's husband do the chopping with an ax to prove to himself that Candy would not be strong enough to do it?

 

[SlovakPrincess]

1 hour ago, Armchair Critic said:So did Candy's husband do the chopping with an ax to prove to himself that Candy would not be strong enough to do it?

 

Yes, that was my understanding — he was trying to prove to himself she couldn’t have swung a heavy ax that many times.

[Avaleigh]

On 5/10/2022 at 1:02 PM, Madding crowd said:

I thought the same thing; they are making Betty out to be a horrible person and Candy as a warm and likable person. Even if Betty was awful she didn’t deserve to be killed and in such an brutal way.

Finally caught up.

I don't find Candy to be likeable or sympathetic for the most part. To me she comes across as pushy, grating and fake nice. There's very little substance there. One thing that annoyed me in particular with her was her comment about how she has the best party house. She states it like it's a fact at three separate points as if her house is God's gift. Betty and Allan's home is pretty terrible but Candy acting as if it would be a downgrade to host the party anywhere else really rubbed me the wrong way.

The kids in this series all get treated terribly. Davey and those invitation? Good Lord, what is wrong with Betty? I found her treatment of him to be inexcusable. Obviously she doesn't deserve to die for it and clearly she was dealing with depression issues among other things, but it's no excuse to take her rage and indifference out on a kid who has already had a traumatic life. I'm okay with the showrunners showing these parts of her life. I don't need them to make Betty into a saint who did no wrong in order to feel sympathy for the fact that her so-called killed her. People are complicated and it's okay for the showrunners to give Betty layers.

I feel sorry for Betty in so many ways. Having a disinterested and absentee husband. Not particularly enjoying being a mom. Being stuck in a depressing home and making no effort to make it a more cheerful place. Feeling like a misfit and outcast even at church where everyone is supposed to be valued and welcomed. Not being successful at her job and feeling like no one  at work (or at home) understands her. 

I'm so worried about Betty's kids. The father doesn't seem capable of fully taking care of them. I wonder how they turned out?

[Andyourlittledog2]

Yeah. Elaine. Wow. Was she moving in for the kill fast, no?  She ran right over to the newly widowed to fix his meals and take care of the kids.  You could see it as a good deed to help him but she was fixed on him like a heat-seeking missile ready to strike. And poor Christina trying to eat and Elaine sweetly preventing her from eating..."You'll thank me for that later."  Gawd. 

Favorite line of the night goes to Allen when Elaine asked him "Can you even change a diaper?"

Allen: "Well, I am an engineer, so...."  He has her number. Go Allen!

At this point in the series when I look at Candy all I see is a venomous snake hiding in plain sight. She's a cold calculating predator in everything she does.

The way she dissed Betty at Betty's own shower, that she was giving her?  They couldn't reheat the food because 'The princess wanted Chinese and they have these metal handles on them."  Constantly putting down marriage encounter as Betty was saying it helped her marriage. It was like she really wanted her friends not to like Betty. She was irritated that they kept complimenting Betty's appearance and clothes.  Candy was seething inside. Her 'lover' went back to his wife and didn't want her. She can't have that.

[HelloooKitty]

I never thought Topher Grace and Justin Timberlake had any resemblance until tonight. 

[Albanyguy]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

I'm so worried about Betty's kids. The father doesn't seem capable of fully taking care of them. I wonder how they turned out?

Spoiler

Allan Gore began dating Elaine Williams, the neighbor we've seen already moving in on him, several weeks after Betty's death. They kept their relationship on the down-low until after Candy's murder trial and were married a couple of months later. "Christina" (not her real first name; all the kids' first names were changed for the series) developed anorexia and neither she nor her little sister got along with Elaine. In frustration, Allen gave up and sent the two girls to live with Betty's parents in Kansas, where they apparently thrived.

 

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

At this point in the series when I look at Candy all I see is a venomous snake hiding in plain sight. She's a cold calculating predator in everything she does.

The way she dissed Betty at Betty's own shower, that she was giving her?  They couldn't reheat the food because 'The princess wanted Chinese and they have these metal handles on them."  Constantly putting down marriage encounter as Betty was saying it helped her marriage. It was like she really wanted her friends not to like Betty. She was irritated that they kept complimenting Betty's appearance and clothes.  Candy was seething inside. Her 'lover' went back to his wife and didn't want her. She can't have that.

Agreed. I was surprised that people think Candy is being portrayed in a favorable light because I think she comes off horribly. She was just awful at that baby shower. She barely even pretended to like Betty and yes, it was like she didn't want anyone in the group to like her. All she wanted was to have people think that she was a nice person for bothering to to deal with Betty. Like Betty is a charity case that nobody but sweet Candy would take on and Candy is *such* a "good" person because nobody else in their group would be willing. 

Then of course she just has to tell one of the women that she's having an affair with Betty's husband because she can't just let Betty have a nice shower with no strings attached. She has to let at least one person know that even Betty's own husband prefers Candy to her because she's that much of a narcissist. 

Lol at the list that Candy and Allan made about the pros and cons of an affair. So wanted to hear the rationale behind how it could potentially be a good thing for their respective spouses. Maybe they justify it with "It'll make me a more pleasant person when I'm at home" or something along those lines? The mind boggles trying to figure these people out.

[Andyourlittledog2]

Speechless.  Just...no words.

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Speechless.  Just...no words.

Allow me: fuck Candy, fuck Allen, fuck Elaine and fuck that jury.

[pasdetrois]

Of course the rancid Justin Timberlake had to ram his way into this series. Couldn't let his wife have her moment in the spotlight. Really soured me on the series. And he's STILL a lousy actor.

[chediavolo]

I didn’t know Betty was pregnant when she was murdered. Doubly sad. I can’t leave candy got off so easily. Does anyone know of a good podcast movie or book on this?  I’d like to read more

[Albanyguy]

4 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I didn’t know Betty was pregnant when she was murdered. Doubly sad. I can’t leave candy got off so easily. Does anyone know of a good podcast movie or book on this?  I’d like to read more

Evidence of Love by John Bloom and Jim Atkinson is an excellent account with lots of background information on the Montgomery and Gore families as well as the internal politics of the Lucas Methodist Church and detailed reconstructions of the crime and trial. Bloom and Atkinson are credited as consultants on this series.

According to the book, Betty was actually not pregnant at the time of her death. She was worried about being pregnant because her period was late, but her autopsy revealed that the period was just about to start. Had she lived, that worry would have been put to rest within a day or two.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Albanyguy

[Madding crowd]

I don’t understand how the jury could see hitting someone in the head 28 times with an ax could possibly be self defense. I felt like we should have seen more of the DA’s testimony on this case because most of it seemed to be the judge hassling Candy’s attorney. Why would her husband wait four more years to divorce her? I would have scared she would go after me and the children. Allan was a terrible person too and I came away from this not liking anyone but the children.

[AntFTW]

This was quite an interesting show. I'm weird. I walked away more pissed at the smug asshole judge than anyone else.

[SlovakPrincess]

The early 80s just seemed to be an era of ridiculous junk science defenses that let people get away with murder or get ridiculously short sentences (this case, the "twinkie defense" case ...)

Poor Betty - I don't think justice was served in this case, to put it mildly!  And her poor kids ... I don't have a good feeling about Elaine as their step-mommy.  Felt kinda bad for the prosecutors in this case, too, losing to such a crazy defense theory and ridiculous lawyer.  

I did kind of enjoy the goofy re-enactment the cops tried to do at the beginning of the episode.  

Still not sure what the point of this series was.  Since they fictionalized stuff anyway, maybe more time spent getting into Candy's psyche would have been helpful.  Like maybe if we'd seen flashes of her ready to lash out as she pretended to be the happy wife, mom, and homemaker, before she killed Betty.  I didn't get any real sense of who Candy was (which I don't think was the fault of Jessica Biel) -- the show didn't seem to want to pick a side as to whether she was telling the truth or making up her "dissociative state" defense.  And then it ended kind of abruptly.  

ETA: actually the "twinkie defense" used by the guy who murdered Harvey Milk and Mayor Moscone was in the late seventies 

Edited May 13, 2022 by SlovakPrincess

[HelloooKitty]

People who know more about legal stuff than I do- can a judge hold a lawyer in contempt for objecting like that? 
 

also, it was totally the lawyer Candy had the second affair with, right?

 

ETA after seeing the last “update”: holy crap she became a mental health counselor?!

Edited May 13, 2022 by HelloooKitty

[chediavolo]

2 hours ago, AntFTW said:

This was quite an interesting show. I'm weird. I walked away more pissed at the smug asshole judge than anyone else.

He was an asshole. How do you hold a lawyer in contempt when he’s trying to defend his client.?

[HelloooKitty]

33 minutes ago, chediavolo said:

He was an asshole. How do you hold a lawyer in contempt when he’s trying to defend his client.?

Yeah, there should’ve been a change in venue. The judge was biased against the lawyer and I think the jury was influenced by how popular Candy was in the community and how unpopular Betty was. 

[Adiba]

3 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

Evidence of Love by John Bloom and Jim Atkinson is an excellent account with lots of background information on the Montgomery and Gore families as well as the internal politics of the Lucas Methodist Church and detailed reconstructions of the crime and trial. Bloom and Atkinson are credited as consultants on this series.

According to the book, Betty was actually not pregnant at the time of her death. She was worried about being pregnant because her period was late, but her autopsy revealed that the period was just about to start. Had she lived, that worry would have been put to rest within a day or two.

I remember reading that book too sometime ago. I was dissatisfied with the outcome, so I came here to see if Candy was worth watching—but I’m thinking probably not. 

Candy should not have gotten away with self-defense considering the amount of blows she inflicted on Betty even after Betty was incapacitated, imo. 

[Madding crowd]

I thought maybe the jury was partially acting against the judge treating Candy’s lawyer so unfairly. That judge shouldn’t have been allowed on the case. I would like to hear what the jurors have to say because chopping someone with an ax so many times doesn’t line up with self defense.

[Albanyguy]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

I thought maybe the jury was partially acting against the judge treating Candy’s lawyer so unfairly. That judge shouldn’t have been allowed on the case.

That's entirely possible. Jurors are only human and the judge's obvious bias may have subconsciously made them more sympathetic to Candy. If Candy had been convicted, her lawyer might have been able to have the verdict overturned on appeal due to the judge's rulings.

I have always thought that the "Candy went into a dissociative state when Betty shushed her" defense was a load of crap. I do think that Candy was telling the truth when she said that Betty attacked her with the ax first and there was a terrible struggle. When Candy got hold of the ax and knocked Betty to the floor, it was in self-defense. But instead of taking the opportunity to run to safety and seek help, she stood over Betty (who was probably still alive but unconscious) and repeatedly struck her with the ax. That wasn't a "dissociative state", it was pure unadulterated rage. I'm sure the one thought ringing in Candy's mind was "HOW DARE SHE DO THIS TO ME!"

I loved the moment at the end when Candy wondered aloud why her friend Sherry wasn't present in court that day and Pat said "She's probably trying to keep her husband away from you." Go, Pat!

Edited May 13, 2022 by Albanyguy

[Cinnabon]

7 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I didn’t know Betty was pregnant when she was murdered. Doubly sad. I can’t leave candy got off so easily. Does anyone know of a good podcast movie or book on this?  I’d like to read more

The original articles in Texas Monthly from the 80s are quite good and very detailed.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/love-and-death-in-silicon-prairie-part-i-candy-montgomerys-affair/

[Cinnabon]

The 80s Lifetime (?) movie was also interesting and gives more insight into her alleged dissociation.

6 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

And her poor kids ... I don't have a good feeling about Elaine as their step-mommy.  

I read that Allan shipped the kids off to live with a relative within a couple years because they didn’t get  along with Elaine.

[Cinnabon]

10 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Of course the rancid Justin Timberlake had to ram his way into this series. Couldn't let his wife have her moment in the spotlight. Really soured me on the series. And he's STILL a lousy actor.

I thought he did a fine job. Apparently he didn’t get paid. And Melanie Lynskey’s husband played the deputy.

https://variety.com/2022/tv/features/jessica-biel-justin-timberlake-candy-1235262644/

[QQQQ]

That's cool, I had no idea Melanie Lynskey and Jason Ritter are married. He looks so much like his dad it's scary! I thought the scenes with Jason and Justin were fun to watch, especially the reenactment of the final encounter between Candy and Betty.

[Armchair Critic]

Who was the 2nd guy she had the affair with? Or was that possibly made up to make it look like she didn't care that much about Allan to kill for?

[Black Knight]

I just finished watching this. I knew absolutely nothing of the real-life story before this, so I came in completely cold.

I found Jessica Biel's portrayal of Candy really distracting in that it was so similar to Christina Ricci's portrayal of Misty on Melanie Lynskey's other big project going right now, Yellowjackets. There's no way Biel could have known about it on her own, because she's not on that show, but I do wonder whether Lynskey noticed and encouraged Biel along those lines, or chose not to tell her and let Biel just play Candy how she saw fit. But the portrayals are so ridiculously similar, and then there's the hair and glasses...it certainly colored my perception of Candy.

I thought the first episode was great, incredibly gripping and absorbing. I think episodes 2-4 slowed down a fair amount, and should have been condensed - what happened did not need three episodes to tell. And then episode 5 had the opposite problem. We needed to see more of the trial. And I think the show very much took the side that Candy was a total liar. The defense sounded ridiculous, and maybe it was just ridiculous, but choosing not to show the testimony of whatever therapist it was diagnosed this "my mom shushed me when I was 4" as the trigger factored in a great deal into Biel's Candy's unbelievability, particularly given the way Biel was playing Candy and the way Candy's scenes were shot. For instance, we first heard this rationalization when Candy and her lawyer were explaining it to Sherry, and Biel's chirpy delivery and her passing around the food as she talked just really made it seem like a story.

The other thing I noticed is that Candy's story did not address the matter of Betty's glasses. That loomed large, the cop's original mistake of moving the pane that broke off in the garage, which meant it couldn't be introduced in the trial. That was another way in which the show made it clear that its angle is that Candy is a lying liar who lies. In Candy's story, the door between that room and the garage was closed during the entire scuffle, so there was no way for the pane from Betty's glasses to end up in the garage. The cops' re-enactment at the beginning of the episode, in which they reasoned that the fight started in the garage, where the axe was, made much more sense and did account for the glasses.

And I think the final way the show took some pains to show that Candy's story was bullshit was by showing some of her husband re-enacting 41 swings with the axe earlier. They didn't even show most of those 41 swings and yet it still went on quite a long time. The idea that Candy would have gotten through 41 swings in a disassociated fugue state just really destroys my ability to suspend belief. Also the show portrayed Candy as being quite crabby that the affair with Allan ended, thus making her a liar there too. The prosecution certainly did a terrible job by using the cross-examination of Candy to go on about another affair that she'd had rather than picking apart her story about the killing itself. I know they couldn't use Betty's glasses because the cop screwed that evidence up, but: 41 swings. Not to mention just leaving the baby for 17 hours or however long it was.

I know nothing about the real-life case, and I know TV show dramatizations are, duh, dramatized, and fictionalized. But in terms of the show itself, I absolutely came away thinking that Candy Montgomery murdered Betty Gore out of resentment. And that she's an amoral sociopath.

Oh, and Allan Gore is a piece of shit. That is all. The poor daughters. I wonder what became of Candy's kids BTW.

[Cinnabon]

58 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

I found Jessica Biel's portrayal of Candy really distracting in that it was so similar to Christina Ricci's portrayal of Misty on Melanie Lynskey's other big project going right now, Yellowjackets.

I don’t think her portrayal is related to Yellowjackets in any way. She looks very much like the real Candy. Check out the 1990 movie based on this case called A Killing in a Small Town. Barbara Hershey as Candy has the same looks.

This article from 1984 also goes into detail about the crime, the defense, and the logistics of the fight.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/love-and-death-in-silicon-prairie-part-i-candy-montgomerys-affair/

Barbara Hershey as Candy:

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Armchair Critic]

9 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Check out the 1990 movie based on this case called A Killing in a Small Town.

Oh lordy here I go down the rabbit hole again, going to watch the 1990 movie and read more on the case.

[Cinnabon]

2 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Oh lordy here I go down the rabbit hole again, going to watch the 1990 movie and read more on the case.

The movie is great! Lifetime doesn’t make them like this anymore, sadly.

The real Candy Montgomery:

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

Candy and Betty Gore:

 

[Armchair Critic]

4 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

The real Candy Montgomery

That is a hard 30. 

[chediavolo]

5 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

That is a hard 30. 

That’s right!  Candy looks 50 and Betty in her 40’s. They are perfectly fine looking but all the talk about he beautiful they were? 

[poeticlicensed]

I've also never bought the disassociative fugue state defense. I think Candy was a narcissist and thought her sh*t didn't stink. When Betty hit her with the axe I think she just went nuts, like how dare she. I also think Candy was unhappy and took all her anger and unhappiness out on Betty. 

Betty had issues with anxiety and I suspect post party depression.

It also irritated me that Candy kept inserting herself in Bettys life even after the affair. Thats pretty smug. 

The only one who came off as sympathetic was Pat. But it took him 4 years to finally divorce her? And she's a mental health counselor? Good lord. 

I read an article online that interviewed Bettys kids many years later. Apparently they ended up with their grandparents and felt abandoned by Allan who started a new family. They were still really angry over their moms murder. 

[Albanyguy]

8 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Who was the 2nd guy she had the affair with? Or was that possibly made up to make it look like she didn't care that much about Allan to kill for?

According to John Bloom and Jim Atkinson, Candy’s second affair was with a married man they identified only as “Richard”. He was not part of the church crowd, but was someone she met at a neighborhood party. It was hot and heavy at first (he was described as being a whole lot better in bed than Allan), but fizzled out shortly before the murder.

I loved how when Candy was refusing to give the name of her second lover, all the church ladies in the courtroom were throwing suspicious glances at their husbands.

[Pepper Mostly]

21 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I don’t understand how the jury could see hitting someone in the head 28 times with an ax could possibly be self defense. I felt like we should have seen more of the DA’s testimony on this case because most of it seemed to be the judge hassling Candy’s attorney. Why would her husband wait four more years to divorce her? I would have scared she would go after me and the children. Allan was a terrible person too and I came away from this not liking anyone but the children.

Never mind that she then strolled to the victim's bathroom, took a shower, and washed and dried her clothes, while Betty lay there, hacked to pieces, and her baby screamed in the background! 

I also read the book ages ago, and saw the TV movie with Barbara Hershey, so I knew about the case. Poor Betty, she wasn't very likable but I did get the idea that she was profoundly depressed. I remember the first scenes when she wistfully recalled times that she and her husband had laughed and had fun together. I think the series did a great job of showing how both women appeared on the surface, then digging deeper. Candy was a monster, full stop. That she could murder a woman, saunter back to her church with her lie fully prepared, and take care of her victim's child without a backward glance.....my blood ran cold. 

And I think Candy's second affair was with the showboat lawyer. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Justice does not always prevail.  
 

I have a healthy dose of skepticism of most people.  We think we know people, but that’s not really the case.  And, I’ve learned that churches are not immune from dangerous people.  

[poeticlicensed]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Justice does not always prevail.  
 

I have a healthy dose of skepticism of most people.  We think we know people, but that’s not really the case.  And, I’ve learned that churches are not immune from dangerous people.  

I have a feeling that the jury was going the extra mile to give her the benefit if the doubt. Churchgoing mom carries a lot of weight, especially in places like Texas. They just couldn't believe it could be anything but self defense from an otherwise nice lady 

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

I've also never bought the disassociative fugue state defense. I think Candy was a narcissist and thought her sh*t didn't stink. When Betty hit her with the axe I think she just went nuts, like how dare she. I also think Candy was unhappy and took all her anger and unhappiness out on Betty. 

Betty had issues with anxiety and I suspect post party depression.

It also irritated me that Candy kept inserting herself in Bettys life even after the affair. Thats pretty smug. 

The only one who came off as sympathetic was Pat. But it took him 4 years to finally divorce her? And she's a mental health counselor? Good lord. 

I read an article online that interviewed Bettys kids many years later. Apparently they ended up with their grandparents and felt abandoned by Allan who started a new family. They were still really angry over their moms murder. 

Yes, I read elsewhere that Betty’s doctor had diagnosed/suspected she had PPD, but didn’t treat her with anything other than Valium and didn’t refer her to a psychiatrist for appropriate meds and therapy. Betty was apparently never the same happy person she once was after having her first child. 

Candy’s lawyer committed suicide in 1999. 

I never understood why Allan decided to denounce his previous statements to police and instead appear to be supportive of Candy while on the stand. And he did that before knowing that Candy had admitted to the murder and was going to claim it was self defense. 

Candy’s lawyer’s statements about connections to The Shining and Friday the 13th were just bizarre to me. Does anyone know if he actually said all of those things in real life? Betty simply skimming over a review of The Shining in the newspaper wasn’t likely to put the idea of an axe murder into her mind. I doubt the article even gave away that part of the movie, IF Betty even read it.

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

24 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

I have a feeling that the jury was going the extra mile to give her the benefit if the doubt. Churchgoing mom carries a lot of weight, especially in places like Texas. They just couldn't believe it could be anything but self defense from an otherwise nice lady 

Betty was also a churchgoing mom, though. She also had taught elementary school and fostered kids.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Andyourlittledog2]

6 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

post party depression.

I think we've all had that.