S02.E07: Harmony

[eleanorofaquitaine]

22 minutes ago, kittykat said:

I don't know much about regency London but I assumed the season was April-August with everyone retreating to country estates a  the weather chilled.

No, it was the other way around - the social season began in winter and ran through mid-June and then they retreated to their country estates in summer. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[RachelKM]

17 hours ago, kittykat said:

I don't know much about regency London but I assumed the season was April-August with everyone retreating to country estates a  the weather chilled.

 

17 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

No, it was the other way around - the social season began in winter and ran through mid-June and then they retreated to their country estates in summer. 

Taking my response to the Questions and answers thread.

[CountryGirl]

This episode was more like it!

I loved Edwina finally buying a clue and realizing how blind she was. A blind man in a snowstorm could have sensed the vibes between her Kate and Anthony.

Yup, honey.

I did love her disgustedly handing the bouquet he brought her to the footman, showing she has a spine after all.

I would have had a ball if I were at the ball where no one else came. I loved all the siblings dancing together. 

Ugh to Pen choosing self-preservation over friendship. But Eloise kind of helped get herself in this fix with all her visits to Theo.

I am going to hand-wave all of the sexy-times in the gazebo where anyone in the world could have happened by because that...was HOT AS HELL. And all the focus on Kate. Lucky, lucky her.

And then, of course, in dramatic soapy fashion, their bliss is cut short by Kate freaking out and getting herself thrown by her horse. In the pouring rain. 

ETA: Gratuitous shot of Anthony in said bliss.

[wanderingstar]

Edwina: Was I truly that blind?

Me: Is this a trick question?

[rejnel]

The season was originally when parliament was in session, roughly October to May/June. Recess for the summer. Then I think it took on a life of its own and the schedule may have adjusted. But basically most of what we now think of as the school year.  

I'm enjoying S2 a lot. But this episode was a little ham-handed, at least the first half. The Bridgertons and Sharmas wouldn't have been openly cut by the whole ton like that. There would have been plenty of speculation, gossip, and giggling behind fans, but only in the case of an absolute scandal would they be openly shunned. And for my money, a more subtle version would have made for better television. But overall, like I said, really enjoying it all! 

[Nidratime]

I haven't seen the last episode yet, but thus far, Colin seems to make one big bone-headed decision per season. Season one: proposing to Marina. Season two: proposing to invest in Lord Featherington's "gem mines". He is the worst judge of character and needs protection.

[Conotocarious]

The fact that no one can identify the song played during the Bridgerton family dance is driving me absolutely crazy. Why is not on the soundtrack? The score? WHYYYY.

[katha]

10 hours ago, Nidratime said:

I haven't seen the last episode yet, but thus far, Colin seems to make one big bone-headed decision per season. Season one: proposing to Marina. Season two: proposing to invest in Lord Featherington's "gem mines". He is the worst judge of character and needs protection.

Yeah, they've written themselves into a corner with Colin IMO. So far, he's been inept at about anything he tries and doesn't have many charming or otherwise redeeming traits. I'm always bored with him and he comes across as rather useless all around. And I don't understand why they did this, the actor seems allright. If they gave him something halfway decent I'm sure he could cope. Benedict also hasn't gotten super exciting material so far IMO, but they've added enough moments to make him an appealing character. Should have been possible with Colin as well. And yeah, for comparison, Anthony was a bit of a jerk in the first season, but he also had moments with his family, with Simon and came across as pretty distinct, if not always likable. And then they could just build on that. Colin is a total personality-free void so far. Well, apart from "easily duped." ;-)

[Haleth]

Geez, Edwina is a whiny brat. I don’t feel sorry for her anymore.  Kate has so filled her head with notions of romance and true love that she can't see beyond her own desires.  She's so wrapped up in her own hurt she doesn't see how painful this has all been for Kate, who was going to hand Edwina off to the man she loves then leave forever.  Be angry at Anthony, sure, but Kate is innocent.  Well, until this episode.  I don't know how this season can end with Anthony and Kate together with Edwina forgiving them, unless a last minute suitor shows up for her, sweeping her off her feet.

I wasn't sure if Pen was going to out Eloise's friendship with the printer boy as a way to save her from the Queen, or if she'd throw her own family under the bus about the fake mines, since the Queen would know Eloise would not betray her best friend that way.  Plus it would scuttle the deal with Colin before he actually handed any money over to Cousin Jack.

The family dance was delightful.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Haleth

[eleanorofaquitaine]

19 hours ago, Haleth said:

Geez, Edwina is a whiny brat. I don’t feel sorry for her anymore.  Kate has so filled her head with notions of romance and true love that she can't see beyond her own desires.  She's so wrapped up in her own hurt she doesn't see how painful this has all been for Kate, who was going to hand Edwina off to the man she loves then leave forever.  Be angry at Anthony, sure, but Kate is innocent.  Well, until this episode.  I don't know how this season can end with Anthony and Kate together with Edwina forgiving them, unless a last minute suitor shows up for her, sweeping her off her feet.

Is Kate innocent, though? In terms of creating the mess, yes, certainly Anthony started it by proposing to Edwina even after he and Kate had their moment in the library. 

But he was ready to call off the engagement after admitting his feelings for Kate and she was the one who insisted he go through with it. She was, at that point, well aware of how desperately he was attracted to her and even worse, that she shared in that attraction. At that point, she should have recognized there was no way he could marry Edwina and have it end happily.

I understand why Edwina is more angry with Kate than Anthony because to her it feels like a bigger betrayal. I also understand why the whole situation is so difficult for Kate because she feels like she is caught between what she wants for her sister and what she wants for herself. (And to be clear, I don't think there is anything wrong with Kate wanting Anthony for herself, except that she pushed Anthony towards Edwina even after knowing his feelings for her).

So I don't know if it entirely fair to say Kate is innocent. I think both Kate and Anthony made big mistakes, which is why "Wrecking Ball" is the right anthem for them both!🙂

[LilJen]

On 3/27/2022 at 3:48 AM, bijoux said:

Newton also made me laugh with finally going to Anthony, but then it hit me. Of course he did. Kate must have wanted cuddles from her best boy when she came home shook from that kiss. Newton must have been like, ah, we like him now. Right-o.

Newton wins. The only intelligent creature in the whole story. I might need some Newton fanfiction. Bark in the Park with Newton: Doggie Gossip. Actually, that should be the New Ton (ba dum dum crash!)

I know it won’t happen (haven’t watched any further and haven’t read, but come on), but it would be kind of hilarious if Kate’s fall off the horse resulted in a silly amnesia storyline, one of those classic jumped the shark things you see on soap operas all the time.

Edited April 17, 2022 by LilJen

[Enero]

On 3/27/2022 at 3:48 AM, bijoux said:

Both Anthony and Kate are heartbreaking with feeling like such failures at what they see as their roles. He visibly broke Violet's heart a little when she was worried about him and he thought she only saw what he'd done wrong

Also what was interesting upon rewatch of this episode was during the museum scene, Mary reveals to Anthony how Kate essentially took over the family upon her father’s death. Though Anthony was aware of Kate’s “gate keeper” role in Edwina’s life I don’t think he had any idea about the extent of that role. Thus his shocked and pensive expression upon learning this. His knowledge of this also further supported his statement to Kate about them doing something for themselves for once. Being that he then understood her role in her family which mirrors his. I do wish though this was something he learned directly from Kate rather than from Mary. 
 

On 3/31/2022 at 7:03 AM, Kirsty said:

Anthony's incredulous "Are you *quite* serious?" to Kate at the art gallery was me for the majority of the episode. Except less polite. 😆  Like, up to now Edwina was an excellent obstacle, as was the engagement, and even the denial of their feelings. But those obstacles are all gone! So I couldn't believe these two dolts were still sitting around looking miserable.

Well I think Anthony completely misread the room on this one. 😂 He was excited and encouraged by the kiss they shared in the church, and therefore was thinking Kate was ready to give their relationship a go. But what he failed to understand was that kiss was a goodbye from Kate. She had decided it was “now or never” knowing that once they left that church she had no intentions of looking in his direction again (poor delusional Kate). 😂  So she kissed him liked she’d been wanting to do for months. Though the truth was out, there was no way Kate was going to allow Anthony to try and court her. They were being shunned by society due to Edwina’s failed nuptials to Anthony. Edwina was still angry with her and though Mary seemed to have already gotten passed the lie I think Kate starting a relationship with Anthony immediately after things blew up would not have sat well with her mother. Not to mention her ongoing guilt about the betrayal. The timing was all wrong for Anthony’s request for them to be alone to discuss the kiss and subsequently their relationship. Though I could understand his desire to pursue what he’d wanted for months being that Kate seemed amicable to that pursuit per the kiss they shared. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

17 hours ago, Enero said:

Well I think Anthony completely misread the room on this one. 😂 He was excited and encouraged by the kiss they shared in the church, and therefore was thinking Kate was ready to give their relationship a go. But what he failed to understand was that kiss was a goodbye from Kate. She had decided it was “now or never” knowing that once they left that church she had no intentions of looking in his direction again (poor delusional Kate). 😂  So she kissed him liked she’d been wanting to do for months. Though the truth was out, there was no way Kate was going to allow Anthony to try and court her. They were being shunned by society due to Edwina’s failed nuptials to Anthony. Edwina was still angry with her and though Mary seemed to have already gotten passed the lie I think Kate starting a relationship with Anthony immediately after things blew up would not have sat well with her mother. Not to mention her ongoing guilt about the betrayal. The timing was all wrong for Anthony’s request for them to be alone to discuss the kiss and subsequently their relationship. Though I could understand his desire to pursue what he’d wanted for months being that Kate seemed amicable to that pursuit per the kiss they shared. 

I am not sure me misread it as much as Anthony is operating under one set of rules and Kate is operating under a different set. Kate kind of made it clear she was "saying goodbye" at the church.

Nevertheless, Anthony is a gentleman and he takes that seriously, which is why he keeps reminding himself and Kate of that fact every time he feels he's going to give in to his attraction to her.

To his mind, the fact that they kissed means that as a gentleman, he has to do something to redress the offense. Those are the rules of his society and it's why he immediately wanted to ask Kate to marry him after their assignation in the gazebo. The kiss wasn't quite at the same level but it's enough of "taking liberties" that he felt like he had to do something. Kate, however, isn't operating under those same set of rules, at least internally, though I am sure she's aware that if anyone other than Daphne saw them together, she would have had to marry Anthony immediately. 

[Kirsty]

20 hours ago, Enero said:

Well I think Anthony completely misread the room on this one. 😂 He was excited and encouraged by the kiss they shared in the church, and therefore was thinking Kate was ready to give their relationship a go. But what he failed to understand was that kiss was a goodbye from Kate.

I think you're right. And for the final two episodes, I think I was supposed to see that Kate and Anthony themselves were the obstacles to a relationship. Or, to put it another way, the problems that kept them apart were internal ones, and not external obstacles like Edwina or a very public engagement.

I guess they each had false beliefs that they had learned earlier in life,  like "I must sacrifice my happiness to be worthy of my family's love" or "Avoiding love is better than loving someone and losing them" . And they needed to slowly and painfully learn that those statements aren't true.

But that's not what I expected as a viewer! When Edwina finally figured things out and left Anthony at the altar, after five episodes of Anthony pursuing her while developing feelings for her sister, I thought *surely* Kate and Anthony can be together now. Especially when they ended the episode with a kiss. I certainly didn't expect them to return to square one as soon as the next episode started.

But then it's rare for a TV show to be a straight-up romance. And maybe there are different conventions for that kind of story. Or maybe the conventions are those of romance novels? It's interesting to see the show exploring storytelling possibilities anyway eg. I bet most viewers of the first season didn't expect Simon and Daphne to marry in the middle of the story.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Kirsty

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, Kirsty said:

I certainly didn't expect them to return to square one as soon as the next episode started.

Neither did I!

 

I was saying to the tv “why don’t you guys just get married now??” But it seems that at this point, Kate is the one standing in the way of them being together, Anthony has come around and is being honest with himself (and her). She acknowledges that she has feelings for him, but I think this episode could’ve explored more WHY she feels so unworthy of being loved. One can be dutiful and loved at the same time. 

[katha]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Neither did I!

 

I was saying to the tv “why don’t you guys just get married now??” But it seems that at this point, Kate is the one standing in the way of them being together, Anthony has come around and is being honest with himself (and her). She acknowledges that she has feelings for him, but I think this episode could’ve explored more WHY she feels so unworthy of being loved. One can be dutiful and loved at the same time. 

Yeah, I think I can kind of cobble together why she's so stuck in her shame and guilt, but it's all happening in the background with not enough focus on her even though she has such major issues still at this point. Anthony even in season one was shown as someone who can compartmentalize to a certain extent and is aware that he needs some form of escape from the pressure he puts on himself. And his strained relationship with his mother indicates that he is aware how she contributed to the situation and does not shy away from assigning a portion of blame and responsibility to her. His family is also largely supportive of a potential match with Kate. Add in that he's a man of high rank and a considerable fortune, I think the obstacles to him realizing what he wants and that he is allowed to try to achieve it for himself are lower. 

Kate seems stuck in massive denial about various aspects of her life and relationships. Her grand masterplan for Edwina has just blown up for her. Edwina and Mary seem to blame and resent her for her actions at this point. She feels guilt and shame for her own feelings and for not being a good enough daughter/sister and not deserving of love because all her managing and sacrificing has not led to the results she wanted. I think her ambitions for Edwina and her marriage were so absolute and consuming for the last decade of her life that she didn't even allow herself to think about goals for herself. On top of that she is a 26 (an "old maid" as perceived by society) woman of lower rank, no fortune and I know the show does not want to acknowledge race and colonialism, but it's there all the same. I also think that no one in the Sharma household had yet figured out that something was dysfunctional about their dynamic, with Kate taking on everything for everyone. Edwina and Mary are just now waking up to it. The stakes for her are incredibly high.

But as I said, this is mostly my speculation hammered together from scraps the show offers. Her being so frozen and panicked for two episodes should have been explored, yet it mostly just served as plot device. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by katha

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, katha said:

Yeah, I think I can kind of cobble together why she's so stuck in her shame and guilt, but it's all happening in the background with not enough focus on her even though she has such major issues still at this point. Anthony even in season one was shown as someone who can compartmentalize to a certain extent and is aware that he needs some form of escape from the pressure he puts on himself. And his strained relationship with his mother indicates that he is aware how she contributed to the situation and does not shy away from assigning a portion of blame and responsibility to her. His family is also largely supportive of a potential match with Kate. Add in that he's a man of high rank and a considerable fortune, I think the obstacles to him realizing what he wants and that he is allowed to try to achieve it for himself are lower. 

Kate seems stuck in massive denial about various aspects of her life and relationships. Her grand masterplan for Edwina has just blown up for her. Edwina and Mary seem to blame and resent her for her actions at this point. She feels guilt and shame for her own feelings and for not being a good enough daughter/sister and not deserving of love because all her managing and sacrificing has not led to the results she wanted. I think her ambitions for Edwina and her marriage were so absolute and consuming for the last decade of her life that she didn't even allow herself to think about goals for herself. On top of that she is a 26 (an "old maid" as perceived by society) woman of lower rank, no fortune and I know the show does not want to acknowledge race and colonialism, but it's there all the same. I also think that no one in the Sharma household had yet figured out that something was dysfunctional about their dynamic, with Kate taking on everything for everyone. Edwina and Mary are just now waking up to it. The stakes for her are incredibly high.

But as I said, this is mostly my speculation hammered together from scraps the show offers. Her being so frozen and panicked for two episodes should have been explored, yet it mostly just served as plot device. 

You’re right. 
 

To expand further- Anthony is a man. A wealthy titled one at that. Yes he has responsibilities to his family, but he’s free to do what he wants for the most part because he’s at the top of the social hierarchy. So when he’s decided emotionally that he wants xyz, it’s done, but Kate doesn’t have that luxury.
 

Kate is a woman, a woman without a dowry, no father, who’s family is “thisclose” to financial ruin. She’s smart and capable (hence why she has an offer to be a governess lined up) but she’s always had to be more pragmatic. She did see how much Lady Mary gave up financially/socially to marry her father, and while she didn’t doubt they loved each other (and she knows Lady Mary loves her) as she said to her in episode 4 or 5 “that’s a high price to pay for love.” Kate can’t afford ANY missteps. While Anthony could meet his need for partnered sex and companionship through women like Sienna (and general sex workers) until he was “ready” to marry, Kate (and women in her place) didn’t have that option. 
 

Kate probably had to “turn off” that part of herself, or even thoughts of wanting to explore it to focus on making sure her family was secure. 
 

How does Kate know Anthony really wants her when he’s kind of been dicking around? Yes he’s said “you consume me” but that can mean “I want you as my long term mistress.” Not “please be my wife.”

[Enero]

On 4/19/2022 at 9:40 AM, Scarlett45 said:

How does Kate know Anthony really wants her when he’s kind of been dicking around? Yes he’s said “you consume me” but that can mean “I want you as my long term mistress.” Not “please be my wife.”

Agreed. Taking to EP8 thread to respond further. 

[ahisma]

On 4/19/2022 at 6:40 AM, Scarlett45 said:

Kate is a woman, a woman without a dowry, no father, who’s family is “thisclose” to financial ruin. She’s smart and capable (hence why she has an offer to be a governess lined up) but she’s always had to be more pragmatic.

I will also add that she’s had her plan in place this whole time, lined up a job, and thinks her future is all set. Sure, Anthony’s sexy af, but she’s getting on a ship soon. It can be hard to pull yourself off the path you’ve been walking on for years and redirect towards something you thought was impossible. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I was rewatching this episode today and I want to give Benedict a shout out for being a good brother to Anthony. It's a short scene but that scene between Anthony and Benedict at the art party is important. 

For one thing, it's the first time anyone in his family recognizes how much Anthony beats himself up for being anything less than perfect. Benedict gives Anthony permission, in a way, to forgive himself and also, to do something for himself. And also, he gives Anthony a way to reframe his feelings for Kate that allows him to consider marrying Kate. 

It's that conversation along with conversation that Anthony has with Mary about the burdens on Kate's shoulders that I think cause him to take a step back and think, "well, why not us?" And also, it's that conversation with Benedict that forces Anthony to reconsider what it means to be there for his family, which is why he dances with Hyacinth.

Anyway, that is, to me, an example of good writing because it sets up the last two episodes. I wish we saw more consistent writing for Kate in the same vein but I give the writers' credit for the way they handled Anthony's evolution. And I like how it showed the depth of Anthony's relationship with his brother. 

[irisheyes]

Lady Danbury and Lady Bridgerton should get their own spin-off. Like “Murder, She Wrote,” but in a Regency setting. 😀

Edwina is starting to irritate me. Stop acting like such a brat. 

[awaken]

On 3/27/2022 at 12:47 AM, anna0852 said:

I'm loving that most of the sex scene was Anthony pleasuring Kate. I think in one of her memories we clearly saw him looking up from 'down below' (not sure how dirty we're allowed to be here) 😁

Lord Bridgerton certainly knows what he's doing!

I admit, his looking up from between her legs during this scene had me giggling!  I had to rewatch a couple times!  😂

[wanderingstar]

Whew - the actor playing Will Mondrich is FINE! I need to pay more attention to him-lol

Cousin Jack clearly catching’ feelings for his mother-in-law-to-be. MESSY.

Still love the Kate/Anthony sex scene. Tender and sexy, it totally paid off all those almost kisses.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Gillian Rosh

[Camera One]

There were some entertaining moments here and there, such as Edwina realizing how obvious Anthony/Kate were, and the two families dancing for fun.  But after the climatic last episode, this one seemed to be spinning its wheels, bringing back the whole Anthony/Kate love-hate stuff before devolving into premarital sex in a completely open area.  

I guess the reason Anthony and Kate couldn't be together was to stop people from finding out the real reason for the interrupted wedding.  I'm not sure how that could be avoided unless Anthony and Kate waited for years.

Would Kate be an appropriate bride for a viscount, considering her parentage?  Would Anthony have been able to court her from the very beginning, if she had been amenable?  

I was back to feeling annoyed at Edwina for continuing to be catty with her sister.  She was throwing herself at Anthony for several episodes.  It would have been more entertaining if she, Lady Danbury and Violet somehow concocted a scenario to get Anthony and Kate together while salvaging everyone's reputations, rewarding and surprising those two with the oldest-child-bears-all-responsibilities syndrome.

Couldn't Penelope have written something a bit less scandalous for Eloise, maybe mocking her for chasing away her suitors and never having anyone on her dance card, or something?  

Well, I'm curious what will happen in the season finale.  I'm finding this season mostly entertaining, but I've also been able to resist watching two in one night thus far.

[mrsbagnet]

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

I guess the reason Anthony and Kate couldn't be together was to stop people from finding out the real reason for the interrupted wedding.  I'm not sure how that could be avoided unless Anthony and Kate waited for years.

I think it was too soon after the wedding for them to be together. It would have just compounded the scandal. If they'd waited a few weeks or months before being together openly, people would still talk, but maybe it wouldn't matter as much. 

 

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

Couldn't Penelope have written something a bit less scandalous for Eloise, maybe mocking her for chasing away her suitors and never having anyone on her dance card, or something?  

I agree. Why blow up Eloise's and her family's whole existence? They had to create drama, I suppose.

Edited January 9, 2023 by mrsbagnet

[ouinason]

I don't know what else could have been written that worked with what the Queen's people uncovered but wasn't the actual whole truth.

[LadyChaos]

It had to be bad enough that the Queen believed Eloise couldn't be LW. And it really is only a temporary scandal. The Bridgertons are wealthy, well liked, and titled....not to mention Eloise's sister is a Duchess.....the scandal of her spending time 'covorting with political radicals' won't stick. Clearly they were already at parties and talking with others by end of the next episode and by time s3 starts no one will care anymore.

However, if Pen has written the whole rule of Eloise spending time alone in Bloomsbury with the printers apprentice.....well, Lady Mary's parents will still outcast from society 20 years after she married 'below her station.' Not to mention, Eloise would've been forced to marry Theo because she was with him without a chaperone.