S04.E12: Species Ten-C

[paulvdb]

Quote

As the DMA approaches Earth and Ni'Var, Captain Burnham and the crew of the U.S.S. Discovery attempt to make First Contact with the powerful species responsible before it's too late.

Premiere date: March 10, 2022

[bobbyjoe]

The big problem with this season is that this is a story that TNG might have covered in a two-parter and the Original Series might have knocked out in one episode. “Mysterious aliens are threatening, but we find out we just don’t know how to communicate with them yet”— this is kind of a classic Trek story but nobody needed 13 episodes to tell it before.  Also, story-wise (“let’s communicate through technology! How exciting!”) this has started reminding me of more than anything is Star Trek:The Motion Picture, and is that really the part of the franchise anybody wants to emulate?

This season’s story is s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d beyond sense and it comes at the cost of sacrificing what could be much more interesting stories about how this future future works, what factions like the Klingons are doing now, etc. 

If you made a cut of what was actually interesting this season it would consist of Jett Reno’s scenes and the scenes between Saru and T’rina, and it’d be about twenty minutes long.  

Speaking of Reno, she makes sitting there eating licorice eight billion times more interesting than the way Burnham is written with “now I’m going to suddenly announce the solution to this problem; and now I’m going to suddenly announce the solution to this problem; and, oh, we have another problem, let me suddenly announce the solution to that; and, oh wait, here’s another problem, I just happen to have a thought…”

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by bobbyjoe

[Linderhill]

this whole trying to communicate effort reminds me of the movie "Arrival" with all of the peculiar symbols.  And it was just as long and tedious.

[paigow]

Close Encounters of The Undiscovery Kind

[thuganomics85]

Definitely was getting some Arrival vibes as well with the whole trying to communicate with aliens who don't use actual words but symbols instead (in this case math.)  In theory, that is actually an intriguing idea and could be compelling.  But like with a lot of stuff this season, it just feels lacking in execution.

Okay, so according to Reno, she managed to snag a communication device right before Tarka stunned her.  I guess he had a phaser with him that entire time.  The question I have is was he then just able to teleport straight back to Booker's ship?  Because I can't see him being able to shove her into the vents and drag her back to where they initially teleported too.  Admittedly, this is a minor thing to wonder about, but it kind of bugged me.

Surprise, surprise: Michael and crew were actually getting somewhere with Species Ten-C, but Tarka might have just screwed that all up.  Now they are building up suspense over her possibly having to "do whatever it takes" to stop him, but I really doubt the show will make her kill Booker (and Reno), so I'm sure another last minute idea will help save the day.

[LaylaGirl]

My Mom and I watch Discovery together, and she is way less critical than I am - but even she commented on how boring this episode was. And meeting an alien race for the first time should be exciting! I am getting very tired of these "side-bars" where one character asks another how they are doing, only to be told the exact same thing every time - they are stressed/tired/angry/anxious - but they will get through it.

As was said upthread - Tig did more acting and was more interesting to watch while eating licorice then any other character!

[jcin617]

Maybe she needs an actual order to do so, but the instant Zora detected Booker's ship, she should have snagged it in a tractor beam.   Then again, we were privy to what they were doing, and she wasn't.

Random aside: is the general from United Earth the leader, or just the military representative?    Can't see how her actions will lead to closer Federation/United Earth relations.

[Chyromaniac]

I thought this was a great episode.  Yes, it’s kind of like Arrival - but I really enjoyed that movie, and I think it’s a pretty reasonable example of what it would actually be like to communicate with an alien species.  As such, any similarities felt like a feature, not a bug.  Also, I liked how it built off the knowledge gained last episode, showing a way for the emotion pheromones to work in context.  I’m also happy with this not necessarily being their “language”- but their best attempt at finding a middle ground between our communication and theirs.  Additionally, it really feels like over the last few episodes that the show has made a concerted effort to involve the supporting bridge crew in the story.

Could the Ten-C story have been done in a single TNG or TOS episode?  I think it’s more likely that those series would do these same episodes, just treat each show as a standalone.  Like, last week would’ve just been: someone drags the blue dust back from an away mission, and it causes everyone on the ship to experience weird emotional hallucinations.  Eventually the doctor or science officer would ID the spores, and develop a counteragent.  This week would be about communicating with an alien that doesn’t use language, and the solution would be to start with math.  Rubicon I think could have played out mostly the same, except: with a standalone threat, Booker would’ve been a one time guest star, and Tarka wouldn’t have been around to screw up the ending.  Really, the only big storytelling difference with Disco is that everything is connected to the DMA/Ten-C storyline.  Otherwise, it still feels like Star Trek to me.

The one thing that has been a bummer over the last few weeks has been the consistent dumbing down of the Dread Pirate Cleveland Booker.  I guess it took an actual betrayal (as opposed to simply the near constant undermining) for him to see the light- Don’t. Trust. Tarka.  Dude, by now you should know he’s not going to follow anyone’s plan but his own.  He’s constantly downplayed the fallout of his work.  And, when has he ever agreed to any kind of delay in doing what he wants?  Plus, you know that the guy has made modifications to your own ship- why haven’t you done a check to make sure he can’t, oh I don’t know, lock you out entirely?  For a guy raised in a forest, Book really missed the trees on Tarka…

Otherwise, I’d give the mvp award for this episode to Reno- I would have been fine with her sitting back and snarking on Team Tarka, but I feel like Tig did a great job showing her silently dissecting Tarka’s plan from her “cell.”  For about half a second I was wondering why she didn’t make a break when Tarka lowered the force field- but instantly I could tell she was staying for a reason.  And then boom- she knows she needs Book’s codes to send her warning, and so they need to be together.  Jett Reno ftw.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

For a guy raised in a forest, Book really missed the trees on Tarka…

If Tarka was a reindeer and Burnham could shoot icicles from her fingers, Book would have figured things out earlier....

[MissLucas]

Prime Cat's Log, 7th life, day 1964:

• Still no signs of first underling who left me in 'care' of disrespectful mate who struggles with her position as underling.
• Underlings all of a sudden obsessed with scent markers as means of communication, apparently new idea to them despite ME doing my best to to rub royal head against all and sundry on this ship - as Queen refrained from using more uncouth methods of scent marking. 
• Having serious doubts about so-called superior intelligence of voice hiding in ship's hull. Hasn't noticed disappearance of my favorite underling of the yellow pride. Almost like her for having near feline levels of aloofness. Voice in ship's hull ignorant of her absence - got fooled by shiny thingy and urge to imitate underlings and talk about feelings. I noticed absence due to having sense of smell (ha!) and eyes!!!
• Underlings left scent markers on alien abode. Were then water squirted like generations of my ancestors who used uncouth methods of scent marking. Aliens clearly on to underlings and their double-standards.
• Underlings switched to handing out treats to aliens. Mildly successful. Though not sure why they are not using something called 'maths' as ways to communicate. Heard them often refer to it as 'language of the universe'.
• After some entertaining light show - you would not think planets are in danger - underlings finally caught on to use 'maths'.
• Talking about mating rituals still prevalent despite above mentioned existential threat - followed by more talking about feelings which then lead for reasons unbeknownst to me to actual shouting RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME!!!
• Note to self: ask voice in hull what 'keelhauling' means and if applicable in space.
• Favorite underling of yellow tribe still missing - shame as she's occasionally capable to overcome her species' compulsion to talk and do some thinking instead. Hope she's okay.

Edited March 12, 2022 by MissLucas

[Starchild]

8 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

I thought this was a great episode.  Yes, it’s kind of like Arrival - but I really enjoyed that movie, and I think it’s a pretty reasonable example of what it would actually be like to communicate with an alien species.  As such, any similarities felt like a feature, not a bug.  Also, I liked how it built off the knowledge gained last episode, showing a way for the emotion pheromones to work in context.  I’m also happy with this not necessarily being their “language”- but their best attempt at finding a middle ground between our communication and theirs.  Additionally, it really feels like over the last few episodes that the show has made a concerted effort to involve the supporting bridge crew in the story.

Could the Ten-C story have been done in a single TNG or TOS episode?  I think it’s more likely that those series would do these same episodes, just treat each show as a standalone.  Like, last week would’ve just been: someone drags the blue dust back from an away mission, and it causes everyone on the ship to experience weird emotional hallucinations.  Eventually the doctor or science officer would ID the spores, and develop a counteragent.  This week would be about communicating with an alien that doesn’t use language, and the solution would be to start with math.  Rubicon I think could have played out mostly the same, except: with a standalone threat, Booker would’ve been a one time guest star, and Tarka wouldn’t have been around to screw up the ending.  Really, the only big storytelling difference with Disco is that everything is connected to the DMA/Ten-C storyline.  Otherwise, it still feels like Star Trek to me.

The one thing that has been a bummer over the last few weeks has been the consistent dumbing down of the Dread Pirate Cleveland Booker.  I guess it took an actual betrayal (as opposed to simply the near constant undermining) for him to see the light- Don’t. Trust. Tarka.  Dude, by now you should know he’s not going to follow anyone’s plan but his own.  He’s constantly downplayed the fallout of his work.  And, when has he ever agreed to any kind of delay in doing what he wants?  Plus, you know that the guy has made modifications to your own ship- why haven’t you done a check to make sure he can’t, oh I don’t know, lock you out entirely?  For a guy raised in a forest, Book really missed the trees on Tarka…

Otherwise, I’d give the mvp award for this episode to Reno- I would have been fine with her sitting back and snarking on Team Tarka, but I feel like Tig did a great job showing her silently dissecting Tarka’s plan from her “cell.”  For about half a second I was wondering why she didn’t make a break when Tarka lowered the force field- but instantly I could tell she was staying for a reason.  And then boom- she knows she needs Book’s codes to send her warning, and so they need to be together.  Jett Reno ftw.

Agree with everything you said but especially the first part. I found myself really interested in the back and forth in developing and using the bridge language. 

 

6 hours ago, paigow said:

If Tarka was a reindeer and Burnham could shoot icicles from her fingers, Book would have figured things out earlier....

OK I do NOT get this reference.

 

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Prim Cat's Log, 7th life, day 1964:

• Still no signs of first underling who left me in 'care' of disrespectful mate who struggles with her position as underling.
• Underlings all of a sudden obsessed with scent markers as means of communication, apparently new idea to them despite ME doing my best to to rub royal head against all and sundry on this ship - as Queen refrained from using more uncouth methods of scent marking. 
• Having serious doubts about so-called superior intelligence of voice hiding in ship's hull. Hasn't noticed disappearance of my favorite underling of the yellow pride. Almost like her for having near feline levels of aloofness. Voice in ship's hull ignorant of her absence - got fooled by shiny thingy and urge to imitate underlings and talk about feelings. I noticed absence due to having sense of smell (ha!) and eyes!!!
• Underlings left scent markers on alien abode. Were then water squirted like generations of my ancestors who used uncouth methods of scent marking. Aliens clearly on to underlings and their double-standards.
• Underlings switched to handing out treats to aliens. Mildly successful. Though not sure why they are not using something called 'maths' as ways to communicate. Heard them often refer to it as 'language of the universe'.
• After some entertaining light show - you would not think planets are in danger - underlings finally caught on to use 'maths'.
• Talking about mating rituals still prevalent despite above mentioned existential threat - followed by more talking about feelings which then lead for reasons unbeknownst to me to actual shouting RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME!!!
• Note to self: ask voice in hull what 'keelhauling' means and if applicable in space.
• Favorite underling of yellow tribe still missing - shame as she's occasionally capable to overcome her species' compulsion to talk and do some thinking instead. Hope she's okay.

Ha! I can see how Reno would be Grudge's favourite.

[salaydouk]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Prime Cat's Log, 7th life, day 1964:

• Note to self: ask voice in hull what 'keelhauling' means and if applicable in space.

Sorry Grudge... Keelhauling doesn't really apply to space. Depending on the circumstances it could be torture or death or really both.

And if you are just looking at the death part of it, then the space equivalent would be to be blown out an airlock.

[Frozendiva]

This could have been a three episode arc.

Brunham’s and Sara’s primal screams scared the cat.

I didn’t hate the ep. It was better than last week’s.

[Chit Chat]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:33 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Now they are building up suspense over her possibly having to "do whatever it takes" to stop him, but I really doubt the show will make her kill Booker (and Reno), so I'm sure another last minute idea will help save the day.

I'm sure Burnham will swoop in and save the day!  These episodes are so damn boring.  At least we got to see Grudge, until Saru and Burnham childishly screamed out their frustrations.  Poor cat.   

Am I supposed to believe that they cracked the code on an unknown language in about 10 minutes?  Um, okay.   I'll hang in there though and keep watching, but the writers really need to pick up the pace with this show.   I'm struggling to stay awake with each episode.  I can't take much more of them discussing their feelings though.  Ugh.

[Ottis]

OK, I laughed as soon as Michael had to call a sidebar with the 10-C "shuttle" present, with the clock ticking, to tell Saru "I feel like everything is slipping through my fingers." Because of course at the moment where action is needed, we all have to have a tribal drum ceremony before taking action.

How did no one call the general a complete chicken sh-t? There was no reason for her not to join them on the 10-C shuttle. How was she more useful on Discovery? She even had time to pack a bag while Michael was shouting with Saru.

In retrospect, this season would have been better without the entire Booker and Dickhead revenge story line. This ep would have been far more interesting without waiting for those two to inevitably screw things up. Actually, without their sub story, this season would have been a lot like Star Trek: the Motion Picture (first movie).

On 3/10/2022 at 1:39 PM, bobbyjoe said:

This season’s story is s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d beyond sense and it comes at the cost of sacrificing what could be much more interesting stories about how this future future works, what factions like the Klingons are doing now, etc. 

Agree, and it seems to be in service to talking ad nauseum about emotions, in pretty much every context ... Zora, aliens, revenge, new love, etc. It's a crappy trade off, IMO. And again, it makes me wonder if that choice was due to these particular writers, or to Discovery reflecting today's society.

Speaking of reflecting today's society, pretty amusing that the "various perspectives problem solving team" Michael called together to figure out the alien communication had every perspective except ... a white male. Message received, show!

On 3/11/2022 at 12:34 AM, LaylaGirl said:

And meeting an alien race for the first time should be exciting!

It would have been ... without the emotional energy drain, and the cutting back to Book and Dumbass for what you knew would be them screwing things up. I wanted to just fast-forward to the inevitable ending, which was exactly the ending I expected even before this episode.

Also ... someone on that ship, or on the writing staff, needs to watch Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I mean, the flashing lights ... come on, obvious immediately what was happening.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Ottis

[rtms77]

What I don’t get is how Zora could not over hear and alert the captain of what the general was doing! How? Even if the com badge was closed off, Zora is the bloody ship, they are everywhere, you telling me they couldn’t see the general standing there talking to something about sabotage. Seriously the only smart person in the ep was Reno.

[marinw]

This show is so.......earnest.

Edited March 13, 2022 by marinw

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, rtms77 said:

What I don’t get is how Zora could not over hear and alert the captain of what the general was doing! How? Even if the com badge was closed off, Zora is the bloody ship, they are everywhere, you telling me they couldn’t see the general standing there talking to something about sabotage. Seriously the only smart person in the ep was Reno.

Zora did also not see how Reno was snatched off the ship. Booker and Tarka used a gizmo to shield their biosigns but it made no sense she did not 'see' or 'hear' them. She's a super-duper AI but and can be fooled by some simple gizmos. As for Reno: if I had a super-duper AI monitoring my ship I would like it to alert someone if one of the biosigns remains inert for a whole day. Especially if said biosign is wedged between two tubes underneath an access hatch 🤷‍♂️

[Stardancer Supreme]

On 3/10/2022 at 3:39 PM, bobbyjoe said:

Speaking of Reno, she makes sitting there eating licorice eight billion times more interesting than the way Burnham is written with “now I’m going to suddenly announce the solution to this problem; and now I’m going to suddenly announce the solution to this problem; and, oh, we have another problem, let me suddenly announce the solution to that; and, oh wait, here’s another problem, I just happen to have a thought…”

What got me was that Book only gave her one piece! I would have wanted at least 3 pieces. LOL!

I finished the show and Reno is awesome! Too bad Book is so obstinate.  No way should he have allowed Tarka to hijack his ship! (*Funky Dineva Voice*  Tarka done messed up the thang!!! *FDV*)

If Reno saves the day next episode, I will forgive all the Discoveryisms we had to suffer in this storyline.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Stardancer Supreme

[Affogato]

I thought the group getting together to solve the problem was a very Star Trek solution and that it was effective. I think this season tried to explore strange new worlds and sought new life, etc, in a properly star trek manner.

I like that we check in with people and if they are burned out and nothing has changed, they are still burned out. I like that Saru and Michael are seen supporting each other and that they are doing it when they have a little spare time and not on the bridge, in the middle of an emergency.

I think Tarka should have been dealt with a while ago, that went on way too long and really it is getting hard to see how Book comes back from this as a character.

[Starchild]

22 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

If Reno saves the day next episode, I will forgive all the Discoveryisms we had to suffer in this storyline.

Forget it, "saving the day" is exclusively a Burnham activity. Reno should just count herself lucky she had a hand in kicking it off.

[marinw]

On 3/12/2022 at 2:33 AM, Frozendiva said:

This could have been a three episode arc.

Lower Decks would have had the whole thing wraped up in about twenty minutes.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Black licorice. Ugh. What kind of savage is Reno? That almost took me out of the episode.

Initially I thought maybe what the 10-C was saying was "Fuck off." Then Discovery said it back to them. 😱

Burnham can't even yell right. Poor Grudge, having to suffer such fools.

When this is all over, Ndoye is getting spaced, right? Such a traitor.

[millennium]

18 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

When this is all over, Ndoye is getting spaced, right? Such a traitor.

Ndoye, Booker and Tarka.  Criminals one and all.

Of course, the watering-down of Booker's culpability is already under way with Reno announcing that she AND Booker are being held against their will.  This is to introduce an impression that in some way he's a victim too.    Please.   Booker's part of a plot that directly threatens the extinction of Earth, Nivar, Titan, etc.   I'll hazard a guess that those planets are not ultimately destroyed in the end.   But that doesn't mean Booker is any less guilty, nor does the inevitable rationale that he was sorta-kinda-willingly deceived into plotting against the Federation.   Terrorists don't get a pass if they set a bomb but it fails to go off as planned.   My guess is Booker will make some noble, self-sacrificing gesture at the climax to show what side he's "really" on, which will then mostly absolve him of all previous wrongdoing in everybody's eyes.   That, and because he has a cat that everybody likes.

Burnham should be stripped of her command for enabling Booker and putting him in a position where he was able to take advantage of her and the ship.   He is Exhibit A in the case against Burnham's powers of judgment.

Agree with everybody who suggested Reno stole the show.   She's effortlessly aloof and so outclasses every other actor/character that she doesn't even truly seem like part of the crew or the show ... instead she's seems like somebody who throws on a uniform and shows up on the Discovery set from time to time when they get bored at their real job.

Edited March 18, 2022 by millennium

[Quilt Fairy]

On 3/18/2022 at 6:41 AM, millennium said:

Agree with everybody who suggested Reno stole the show.   She's effortlessly aloof and so outclasses every other actor/character that she doesn't even truly seem like part of the crew or the show ... instead she's seems like somebody who throws on a uniform and shows up on the Discovery set from time to time when they get bored at their real job.

I think that's actually true.