S01.E03: Face the Music

[OtterMommy]

Air date: February 7, 2022

[Snazzy Daisy]

Synopsis:

An unfortunate development finds George's new rail station under threat; Marian continues to see Mr. Raikes despite Agnes' warnings.

 

[yellowjacket]

So annoyed again in episode 3.  NYC civil engineer here.  There weren't vastly wide concrete sidewalks with dirt streets in Manhattan in the 1890s.  Sidewalks would be wooden or flagstone, streets were cobblestone or gravel.  They're just trying to keep the wardrobe clean.

At least some sexiness has arrived.

I think the sister's house is modelled on the Explorer's Club building on 71st street.

[AntFTW]

For all of Oscar's shittiness, he's the only one in the old money group that realizes that the sphere of influence will shift to the new money.

Thinking in the context of the 21st century, it would take a colossal and unthinkable amount of money to prevent a stock price from going down after industry-specific legislation disfavors an industry. You'd have to really be out for blood to ensure your enemies are on the wrong side of a trade.

ETA: I actually read this scenario happened to Cornelius Vanderbilt but I wasn't sure if I was misremembering. Fellowes confirms in the 'Inside the Episode' that the storyline comes from the events with Cornelius Vanderbilt.

Edited February 8, 2022 by AntFTW

[DesiJF]

Saw that coming a mile away.  I feel sorry for Mr. Morris but he didn't appear to feel much compunction about ruining Mr. Russell.  Or did he?  He seemed a decent enough guy.  I think the mastermind behind this plot was the young hot guy...don't know that I ever caught his name.  He's some kind of relation to Mrs. Fane?  Surely he can't be her husband, can he?  He seems much too young.

I'm getting a little tired of Marian running her mouth all the time.  For someone who doesn't have a penny to her name, or if she does it's only because her aunt has given it to her, she certainly feels pretty free with her opinions.  A little nobody like her doesn't sit at a luncheon and tell all the other ladies how they should be conducting themselves.  Poor Ada, I thought she would expire from embarrassment.

Speaking of poor Ada.  I can't believe she didn't realize her sister gave her would-be suitor the old heave-ho.  Thank God Agnes did though.  Poor Ada.

Edited February 8, 2022 by DesiJF

[AntFTW]

Agnes van Rhijn:

[AntFTW]

11 minutes ago, DesiJF said:

I'm getting a little tired of Marian running her mouth all the time. 

Marian does seem to do a lot of talking, a little too much talking.

12 minutes ago, DesiJF said:

Saw that coming a mile away.  I feel sorry for Mr. Morris but he didn't appear to feel much compunction about ruining Mr. Russell.  Or did he?  He seemed a decent enough guy.

I agree. I feel like they made it obvious.

13 minutes ago, DesiJF said:

I think the mastermind behind this plot was the young hot guy...don't know that I ever caught his name.  He's some kind of relation to Mrs. Fane?  Surely he can't be her husband, can he?  He seems much too young.

I think that is her husband.

[AntFTW]

So Mrs. Chamberlain's big no-no was having sex with her husband before they were married???

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, DesiJF said:

I'm getting a little tired of Marian running her mouth all the time.  For someone who doesn't have a penny to her name, or if she does it's only because her aunt has given it to her, she certainly feels pretty free with her opinions.  A little nobody like her doesn't sit at a luncheon and tell all the other ladies how they should be conducting themselves.  Poor Ada, I thought she would expire from embarrassment.

And unfortunately it's not even like she's acting as an audience surrogate, at least for me. Because my thought in that conversation was more like, well, if you won't let them buy a box at your theater, isn't it logical they'd build another? But Marian basically just keeps saying, "But they have lots of money and we want money so why don't we take their money?" And at this point you'd think she'd get that they personally despise the Morrises and so wouldn't want to be dependent on them. So maybe don't always bring it up like she's consistently confused about why they aren't taking their money? She doesn't come across as principled or feisty, you just wonder why she keeps getting invited.

Though I guess the stuff with the scandalous woman showed sometimes she is just that clueless, if she didn't understand what Ada was telling her about people "knowing" each other before marriage and their kid being too young. That's a pretty extreme reason for cutting someone. And it was nice seeing Agnes knowing better than Marian about most things.

[TheOtherOne]

21 minutes ago, DesiJF said:

  I think the mastermind behind this plot was the young hot guy...don't know that I ever caught his name.  He's some kind of relation to Mrs. Fane?  Surely he can't be her husband, can he?  He seems much too young.

 

Yes, he's her husband. Interesting enough, the actor who plays him is the same age as the actress playing her, but he does read a lot younger than 45/46.

[kristen111]

Everything that happened tonight was very obvious.  The only thing that surprises me is how ruthless the Russels are and how far they will go.  They are such a team together, it’s scary.

[SailorGirl]

7 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

So Mrs. Chamberlain's big no-no was having sex with her husband before they were married???

And got preggers. Their son is "older than he ought to be." I gather they must have tried to say he was adopted but you couldn't get anything past those gossipy society bishes. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by SailorGirl

[kristen111]

2 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

And got preggers. Their son is "older than he ought to be." I gather they must have tried to say he was adopted but you couldn't get anything past those gossipy society bishes. 

Besides revealing that to Marian, they were interrupted, just before Ada was going to tell Marian more.

[AntFTW]

Just now, kristen111 said:

Everything that happened tonight was very obvious.  The only thing that surprises me is how ruthless the Russels are and how far they will go.  They are such a team together, it’s scary.

The ruthlessness doesn't surprise me at all. George was willing to spend the extra money to build a new railroad right beside an existing railroad as opposed to buying the existing railroad just to make a point.

What surprised me is the aldermen's ruthlessness and they had been doing this for quite some time. Using their positions as legislators to manipulate the stock market in their favor, not caring about who is on the losing side, is pretty ruthless.

[SailorGirl]

Other than Agnes, I am more and more on the side of the "new money" if for no other reason than they just keep finding new ways to diminish the "old money" at every turn. 

For example: that "upstart" alternative performing arts center the new money was founding to compete with the Academy of Music -- you know, the one that would never succeed?  Yeah, that would be the Met: 

The Metropolitan Opera Company was founded in 1883 as an alternative to New York's old established Academy of Music opera house.[3][1] The subscribers to the Academy's limited number of private boxes represented the highest stratum in New York society. By 1880, these "old money" families were loath to admit New York's newly wealthy industrialists into their long-established social circle. Frustrated with being excluded, the Metropolitan Opera's founding subscribers determined to build a new opera house that would outshine the old Academy in every way.[4][5] A group of 22 men assembled at Delmonico's restaurant on April 28, 1880. They elected officers and established subscriptions for ownership in the new company.[6] The new theater, built at 39th and Broadway, would include three tiers of private boxes in which the scions of New York's powerful new industrial families could display their wealth and establish their social prominence. The first Met subscribers included members of the Morgan, Roosevelt, and Vanderbilt families, all of whom had been excluded from the Academy. The new Metropolitan Opera House opened on October 22, 1883,[7] and was an immediate success, both socially and artistically. The Academy of Music's opera season folded just three years after the Met opened.

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by SailorGirl

[AntFTW]

4 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Other than Agnes, I am more and more on the side of the "new money" if for no other reason than they just keep finding new ways to diminish the "old money" at every turn. 

Agreed! They're the underdogs. I always love a scrappy underdog story.

[Straycat80]

It’s interesting that at this time The Vanderbilt’s and JP Morgan’s were the new money people upstarts. The White Star cruise line was also mentioned. One of the Astors went down with the Titanic which isn’t until 1912. 
It was sad what Mr. Morris did, wonder what his wife will do now.

I’m glad Agnes ran off that guy, he was obviously after Ada for money and a place to live. 
How old is Gladys Russell suppose to be? She looks 13, but apparently is of an age to marry. I’m rooting for the Russell family, they are fighting tooth and nail for what they want. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Survival rule no. 1:

Never mess with the Russells! 👑💥

 

 

[sistermagpie]

So does that maid's plans to get more out of life involve sleeping with Russell? Because she seems to have chosen the worst house in the world to try to...I don't know. She can't think he'd marry her or anything, I guess, but living in the house you'd think she'd notice that the guy loves his wife and that his wife would not think twice about chopping somebody up in a pie for trying it. 

[AntFTW]

6 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Survival rule no. 1:

Never mess with the Russells! 👑💥

My mind went straight to Jurassic Park 🤣

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

So does that maid's plans to get more out of life involve sleeping with Russell?

Spoiler

Yup

 

[Brn2bwild]

I know we're supposed to be so impressed with the Russells, be all "You made that alderman kill himself. You go!" but this episode made me hope they would eventually hit their limits.  When the lesson of every episode is that money always wins for you whatever you want, the world takes on a cynical, empty shape.  I find Mr. Russell hot, but I don't like him, nor Mrs. Russell.  I want their "victories" to come at some cost to themselves.

 

[eejm]

14 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

So does that maid's plans to get more out of life involve sleeping with Russell? Because she seems to have chosen the worst house in the world to try to...I don't know. She can't think he'd marry her or anything, I guess, but living in the house you'd think she'd notice that the guy loves his wife and that his wife would not think twice about chopping somebody up in a pie for trying it. 

Right?  He seems to see right through her and find her interest in him amusing.

I wonder what the social fallout for the Russells will be now that the alderman killed himself.  While George made it clear he’s not to be messed with, I can’t imagine the “old” money is itching to welcome them with such scandal attached to the situation.

[Broderbits]

4 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

I find Mr. Russell hot, but I don't like him, nor Mrs. Russell.

I don't find him at all attractive physically, but the way he loves his wife and stands up for her is very hot. That governess better watch herself because Bertha will CUT her.

[Roseanna]

51 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Though I guess the stuff with the scandalous woman showed sometimes she is just that clueless, if she didn't understand what Ada was telling her about people "knowing" each other before marriage and their kid being too young. That's a pretty extreme reason for cutting someone. 

Is it a Biblical way? After Rebecca was brought to Isaac, he "knew" her.  

44 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Their son is "older than he ought to be." I gather they must have tried to say he was adopted but you couldn't get anything past those gossipy society bishes. 

I think it was an "adoption" wasn't an unusual way. 

Of course, if you marry in haste, a child born after seven months after marriage could be presented "premature".

[Snazzy Daisy]

17 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

My mind went straight to Jurassic Park 🤣

This GIF is when Agnes confronting Bertha!

some day… 😂

[AntFTW]

I'd like to acknowledge Gladys blackmailing her governess.

[sistermagpie]

15 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Is it a Biblical way? After Rebecca was brought to Isaac, he "knew" her.  

I took it that way--and was surprised it didn't occur to Marian!

15 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

I think it was an "adoption" wasn't an unusual way. 

Of course, if you marry in haste, a child born after seven months after marriage could be presented "premature".

I wonder if it might turn out to be that the kid actually was premature so she's ostracized for nothing. Still, I would have thought the fact that they were married before the birth would make it respectable, whatever the dates. It can't be the first time a woman got pregnant on her wedding night and had a premature baby.

[izabella]

I was so excited for Peggy when she got her publisher's letter, but then reality set in.  Poor Peggy.  Maybe she can submit her stories to black publishers?  I know she wants and merits a broader audience, but at least she would have an audience and wouldn't have to change her stories.  At least that would be better than moving home. 

What did Peggy's father say to her that made her turn around and leave?

[Roseanna]

55 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

The only thing that surprises me is how ruthless the Russels are and how far they will go.  They are such a team together, it’s scary.

 

48 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

The ruthlessness doesn't surprise me at all. George was willing to spend the extra money to build a new railroad right beside an existing railroad as opposed to buying the existing railroad just to make a point.

What surprised me is the aldermen's ruthlessness and they had been doing this for quite some time. Using their positions as legislators to manipulate the stock market in their favor, not caring about who is on the losing side, is pretty ruthless.

Yes, the Old Money had presented themselves above all others but it was shown that they were just as greedy and ruthless - and besides hypocritical. They tried to play the game but hadn't enough game counters.

Also, their wives hadn't understood at all what was at stake when they snubbed Mrs Russell.

3 minutes ago, eejm said:

I wonder what the social fallout for the Russells will be now that the alderman killed himself.  While George made it clear he’s not to be messed with, I can’t imagine the “old” money is itching to welcome them with such scandal attached to the situation.

You may be right that there will be a feud.

The truth is, however, that the alderman decided about the suicide himself after making the mess of his life - a coward's way out as he left his wife and children he claimed to love without money and honor. It wasn't Mr Russell's fault. He couldn't have known how the alderman would react.    

[Snazzy Daisy]

2 minutes ago, izabella said:

What did Peggy's father say to her that made her turn around and leave?

I think he said if thing with the publisher doesn’t work out, she should come back and work for him.

[AntFTW]

Just now, izabella said:

I was so excited for Peggy when she got her publisher's letter, but then reality set in.  Poor Peggy.  Maybe she can submit her stories to black publishers?  I know she wants and merits a broader audience, but at least she would have an audience and wouldn't have to change her stories.  At least that would be better than moving home. 

What did Peggy's father say to her that made her turn around and leave?

He was telling Peggy that if her plans don't work out that she can come home and work for him. She was disheartened. From her point of view, it's like her father doesn't believe in her. From his point of view, he's protecting her from being hurt when she fails.

I'm conflicted. I understand both sides. I also ask myself would I have taken the deal Peggy was offered. It was a tempting offer. Knowing the time I was in, would I have made that compromise?

[Bulldog]

58 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

It was sad what Mr. Morris did, wonder what his wife will do now.

I could picture Mrs. Russell offering her a job as the hired help just to rub it in. 

 

45 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

So does that maid's plans to get more out of life involve sleeping with Russell?

In the pilot, I was convinced that the maid and Russell were either having an affair or would begin one soon.  I'm not so sure anymore.  I think it might all be one sided on the maid's part.  Russell clearly loves his wife.  While I'm sure that didn't stop men of that era from enjoying extracurricular activities, I'm just not seeing it any longer.  I actually think I like that idea better as it is actually more unexpected than an affair would be.  Of course, having separate bedrooms doesn't help. 

 

10 minutes ago, izabella said:

I was so excited for Peggy when she got her publisher's letter, but then reality set in. 

I felt so bad for Peggy.  While I totally understand her position, I honestly think that if I had been in her position, I would have made the changes and cashed the check.  Sometimes you have to do the pragmatic thing.  Save the money now, and work to get your later work (which would likely also be better) published under your own name in the future. 

[AntFTW]

7 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Yes, the Old Money had presented themselves above all others but it was shown that they were just as greedy and ruthless - and besides hypocritical. They tried to play the game but hadn't enough game counters.

Rather than play the game, they tried to rig the game. They were successful until they weren't.

9 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Also, their wives hadn't understood at all what was at stake when they snubbed Mrs Russell.

I think that's a BS excuse from the husbands. George had already stuck up for his wife. George dealt with that problem. I think George had gotten past the snub to his wife.

The husbands provoked that. That was all on them. They don't get to use the wives as an excuse for them now picking a new fight with George. 😑

Just now, Bulldog said:

I felt so bad for Peggy.  While I totally understand her position, I honestly think that if I had been in her position, I would have made the changes and cashed the check.

Honestly... me too

Being black and being a woman, the predetermined deck was stacked against her.

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Bulldog said:

I could picture Mrs. Russell offering her a job as the hired help just to rub it in. 

I thought the idea was that Russell actually was going to stop before things got too bad and Morris killed himself before he realized that? In which case his wife might be okay and a widow. She'd be more interesting if she was still around with a grudge.

2 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I think that's a BS excuse from the husbands. George had already stuck up for his wife. George dealt with that problem. I think George had gotten past the snub to his wife.

The husbands provoked that. That was all on them. They don't get to use the wives as an excuse for them now picking a new fight with George. 😑

Yup, while George's reactions were maybe a bit strong in both cases, they were appropriate to the different things. Ruined bazar for the women, ruined businesses for the men. And the main way it came back to bite the women was that of course Mrs. Morris wouldn't step in to talk to her husband as she might have preferred to do earlier so they'd owe her a favor. 

The Russells have got to take some hits soon, though. So far the Old Money people are paper tigers.

[Roseanna]

10 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I wonder if it might turn out to be that the kid actually was premature so she's ostracized for nothing. 

If the baby was born after seven months of marriage, it would be OK. No outsider would know for know if he or she was premature or not (except a doctor and a midwife of course). F. ex. Winston Churchill was such a child. 

I wonder why this couple couldn't marry once she realized that she was pregnant. Perhaps she, as an unmarried girl, wasn't yet be taught the signs?

[AZChristian]

36 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Is it a Biblical way? 

Giving credit to Hawkeye Pierce (M*A*S*H):  both testaments.

[Snazzy Daisy]

1 hour ago, Straycat80 said:

It was sad what Mr. Morris did, wonder what his wife will do now.

Will the old-money society support Mrs. Morris after her husband's suicide?

Or will she be disgraced and the only friend left is Mrs Chamberlain? 🤔

[AntFTW]

15 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

In the pilot, I was convinced that the maid and Russell were either having an affair or would begin one soon.  I'm not so sure anymore.  I think it might all be one sided on the maid's part.  Russell clearly loves his wife.  While I'm sure that didn't stop men of that era from enjoying extracurricular activities, I'm just not seeing it any longer.  I actually think I like that idea better as it is actually more unexpected than an affair would be.  Of course, having separate bedrooms doesn't help. 

I think he'll take the bait.

Just now, SnazzyDaisy said:

Will the old-money society support Mrs. Morris after her husband's suicide?

I would guess that they wouldn't abandon her for the death of her husband but they would abandon her if they really did lose everything,

[Roseanna]

17 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I'm conflicted. I understand both sides. I also ask myself would I have taken the deal Peggy was offered. It was a tempting offer. Knowing the time I was in, would I have made that compromise?

 

11 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

I felt so bad for Peggy.  While I totally understand her position, I honestly think that if I had been in her position, I would have made the changes and cashed the check.  Sometimes you have to do the pragmatic thing.  Save the money now, and work to get your later work (which would likely also be better) published under your own name in the future. 

She was told that her own name was OK but it was such that that she could be presented as white in the magazine. Which meant that she would be shamed in the eyes of her own people.

I think that the crux of the matter is that it's different to sell something that you have created from your soul. And she doesn't necessarily need money - she has a job as a secretary.   

 

   

[dmc]

This show is turning into people I hate and don't hate rather than new money and old money for me

I cannot stand Oscar, Bertha, and honestly George...and the lawyer guy

Marion RUN

I thought Mrs. Mrs van Rijn was legitimately standing up for her sister.  

So the gilded age was a bunch of unscrupulous well dressed people having five course meals.

I like Ada, Mrs. Mrs van Rijn , Marion, Peggy and the sister of the new $$ family and that's it

Edited February 8, 2022 by dmc

[Roseanna]

Oh poor Ada!

But Agnes really seems to recognize men who have wrong motives! Is she right about Mr Raikes, too? 

[AntFTW]

3 minutes ago, dmc said:

I thought Mrs. Mrs van Rijn was legitimately standing up for her sister

She absolutely was.

Agnes may be blunt and rude, but she genuinely wants the best for her family. She just wants her version of "the best."

1 minute ago, Roseanna said:

But Agnes really seems to recognize men who have wrong motives! Is she right about Mr Raikes, too?

She doesn't like Tom because he isn't rich and doesn't fit within Agnes's social circle. Tom clearly knows that Marian is broke.

Edited February 8, 2022 by AntFTW

[Snazzy Daisy]

Frozen mixed vegetables in 1882? 😳

[Roseanna]

3 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

She doesn't like Tom because he isn't rich and doesn't fit within Agnes's social circle. Tom clearly knows that Marian is broke.

Yes. He if anybody knows she had no money. 

But maybe he hopes that Aunt Agnes' connections would be useful to him? If it's not his main motive, there is nothing wrong in itself. 

[AntFTW]

I like that George and Bertha are supportive of each other, saying that she's willing to rock the boat and stay on a sinking ship with it.

Anne Morris and Aurora Fane wasn't about that life. They were like "fuck your little d**k-measuring contest. What you're not gonna do is lose my shit! Not in front of Mrs. Astor. Not today!" 🤣

[Hiyo]

Quote

I want their "victories" to come at some cost to themselves.

Maybe not to the directly, but I have a feeling it will come to their daughter via a shitty loveless marriage.

Quote

I think it might all be one sided on the maid's part.  Russell clearly loves his wife.  While I'm sure that didn't stop men of that era from enjoying extracurricular activities, I'm just not seeing it any longer. 

I think if he is banging someone on the side, it wouldn't be someone so close to home. Or even in the home.

[Cheezwiz]

Even though stuff "happened" i dozed off for part of this episode. I'm finding the business shenanigans tedious.

Good on Agnes for protecting Ada from a fortune hunter. Ada actually seemed reluctant at first to reacquaint herself with her former friend, and only gave in after some prodding from Marian. Maybe I missed something while I was dozing, but I'm glad he was shooed away. I'm hoping Mr. Raikes is more genuine in his pursuit.

Was excited for Peggy, but knew there would be a catch, sadly.

Does Oscar just keep that dude in a box under his bed or something? They are always making out in his room. I feel sorry for Gladys being in his fortune-hunting crosshairs.

I was expecting Mrs. Chamberlain's scandal to be way more... scandalous. I realize I'm looking at it from a 21st century perspective, but surely that's something that happened ALL the time, I can't imagine all of of her peers giving her the cold shoulder long term. Gossip and titillation yes, but I was imagining something that actually harmed others - an affair or financial swindling of some sort.

I'll keep watching, 'cause I'm rooting for Peggy and Aunt Ada, but I'm getting veeery sleepy. It really is a dull snoozefest with some beautiful costumes, and zero intrigue.

[izabella]

19 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Yes. He if anybody knows she had no money. 

But maybe he hopes that Aunt Agnes' connections would be useful to him? If it's not his main motive, there is nothing wrong in itself. 

It would be interesting to see if Marion would be wiling to give up her own status for a scrappy lawyer.  She says a lot of things that sound like class and status don't matter to her, but I'm not convinced she would want to be a lawyer's wife.  She did seem excited about his proposal, and she didn't say no, though!

[Roseanna]

46 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Will the old-money society support Mrs. Morris after her husband's suicide?

Or will she be disgraced and the only friend left is Mrs Chamberlain? 🤔

 

46 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I would guess that they wouldn't abandon her for the death of her husband but they would abandon her if they really did lose everything,

The suicide was the worst sin. Traditionally, he couldn't get a religious funeral and he should be buried outside the church's graveyard.

But maybe the time had already changed a bit - or family doctor could keep the suicide secret.

[Hiyo]

Quote

So the gilded age was a bunch of unscrupulous well dressed people having five course meals.

Heck yeah, it's Dynasty with period costumes which is one of the selling points for me.