S01.E03: Face the Music

[dmc]

Just now, DiabLOL said:

You know I keep wondering if he knows something. He sure relocated to NYC in a flash.

its possible her father misrepresented her affairs especially in the wake of what he did to his sisters but its weird she didn't get an inkling of their debts prior just based on how they were living.  

maybe he's either lying or he siphoned her father's funds

[eejm]

7 minutes ago, dmc said:

this guy is a creep.  I am not sure how yet but I won't be surprised when his wife and baby from PA show up

 

2 minutes ago, DiabLOL said:

Right? He knows what the deal is. She’s not even supposed to go out alone. They let us see Peggy’s shocked expression when he closed his office door.

 

 

1 minute ago, dmc said:

something there is off....

also do we just have his word she is penniless

 

Agreed.  Agnes said before that she doesn’t like Raikes, and that she’s “never wrong.”  I tend to believe her.

Regarding Jack’s treatment of Bridget (the footman and maid), he was very pushy on their “date,” but I don’t think he was trying to hurt, control, or deceive her.  I think he’s just very young, clumsy, and really inexperienced.  I hope he learned his lesson and doesn’t keep it up.

[MissLucas]

He, Ada telling Marian to STFU was the highlight of the episode.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets tired of her oscillating between country-bumpkin-speaking-truth-to-power and wide eyed clueless ingenue. And I think it's not just the actress but also the writing. There are hints of Lady Mary in some of Marian's lines but Lady Mary had a much better grasp of the world she was moving in and she was written as a cynic who had no qualms challenging the status quo. And she was downright unlikeable from time to time but that was also in the writing. I don't think that's where the writing for Marian is heading, I find it quite baffling.

I am with aunt Agnes when it comes to Mr Raikes. I was already suspicious after his 'I see something I want, I take it' speech and none of his actions this week have changed my mind. 

So, where did Ada live and what she was doing during the time of Agnes marriage. Agnes telling Ada she deserves to be spoiled after getting rid of her wannabe-suitor was quite touching.

And then we've got a bit of Greek tragedy with the Russells and Mr Morris. I'm sure Nemesis is taking notes. She's a fickle one.

The dialogue between Oscar and John Adams felt written by the exposition fairy. Clearly men in their position knew very well what was expected of them. It was not necessary for Oscar to explain that to his pouting lover. For once I'm glad Bertha watches over Gladys like a hawk though it seems Gladys has a devious side of her own. Good for her. 

Peggy's plot remains the strongest. I wonder what her father's business is. He looks like he'd have enough clout to ask the editors of 'colored' newspapers to refuse her stories so that she returns home and gives up her plans of becoming a writer. 

 

[dmc]

The other part of this show that I find odd is they constantly present George and Bertha as wanting to be part of society...and every time they get the slightest opportunity or chance they both act they don't want to be a part of it...like which is it.  

[AZChristian]

Other than Raikes' say-so, has anyone else talked to Marian about the value of the railroad stocks her father had?  Or even whether the house they lived in was their property or rented (as Raikes said)?

[dmc]

1 minute ago, AZChristian said:

Other than Raikes' say-so, has anyone else talked to Marian about the value of the railroad stocks her father had?  Or even whether the house they lived in was their property or rented (as Raikes said)?

Nope.  

[kristen111]

1 hour ago, Hiyo said:

Having a child out of wedlock back then put you on the same level as a whore I would imagine. So...even that on it's own would be extremely scandalous.

Plus, having a baby out of wedlock, abortions were common.  The women aborted themselves with different kinds of things.  They took chances of infections, etc.  Weird, but true.  Not everyone went to hospitals or clinics back then.

 

[AntFTW]

34 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Other than Raikes' say-so, has anyone else talked to Marian about the value of the railroad stocks her father had?  Or even whether the house they lived in was their property or rented (as Raikes said)?

Her Aunt Agnes also says she's broke and she's never wrong.

Edited February 8, 2022 by AntFTW

[dmc]

2 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Her Aunt Agnes also says she's broke and she's never wrong.

I thought her aunt was going off her Marion's letter and her belief that her brother is a no good scoundrel

[AntFTW]

3 minutes ago, dmc said:

I thought her aunt was going off her Marion's letter and her belief that her brother is a no good scoundrel

That is entirely possible.

[Affogato]

32 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

Plus, having a baby out of wedlock, abortions were common.  The women aborted themselves with different kinds of things.  They took chances of infections, etc.  Weird, but true.  Not everyone went to hospitals or clinics back then.

 

Or in the 1970s

Edited February 8, 2022 by Affogato

[dmc]

https://ew.com/tv/the-gilded-age-michel-gill-katie-finneran/

 

I was reading an interview with the actors who played Anne Morris and her husband

How badly do you think Patrick and Anne underestimated the Russells?

FINNERAN: It's not so much that we don't want to let [Bertha] in, it's that she's pushing herself in. Like, it's not like we don't understand her value as being a monetary benefit for us and our charities. But she pushes in so forcefully. I just want to say, "Take a minute, let us get to know you, you get to know us. Show us that you're respectful. We'll be respectful to you. And maybe one day we'll let you in." But she just barrels in there like a bull in a china shop.

 

this is interesting because we have all been saying this all along about Bertha

Edited February 8, 2022 by dmc

[AntFTW]

6 minutes ago, dmc said:

It's not so much that we don't want to let [Bertha] in, it's that she's pushing herself in.

I would argue that's the only way in. She has to bulldoze her way in because they have zero interest in getting to know her.

[dmc]

Just now, AntFTW said:

I would argue that's the only way in. She has to bulldoze her way in because they have zero interest in getting to know her.

I don't think that works unfortunately which is why no one likes her.  

[Affogato]

19 minutes ago, dmc said:

https://ew.com/tv/the-gilded-age-michel-gill-katie-finneran/

 

I was reading an interview with the actors who played Anne Morris and her husband

How badly do you think Patrick and Anne underestimated the Russells?

FINNERAN: It's not so much that we don't want to let [Bertha] in, it's that she's pushing herself in. Like, it's not like we don't understand her value as being a monetary benefit for us and our charities. But she pushes in so forcefully. I just want to say, "Take a minute, let us get to know you, you get to know us. Show us that you're respectful. We'll be respectful to you. And maybe one day we'll let you in." But she just barrels in there like a bull in a china shop.

 

this interesting because we have all been saying this all along about Bertha

Well yeah, but the actors like us are modern people with modern sensibilities. I’m not sure that is what people would think back then. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Affogato

[dmc]

3 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Well yeah, but the actors like us are modern people with modern sensibilities. I’m not sure that is what people would think back then. 

There was intermingling of old money and new money back then.  Hence the hysteria among the old money types.  

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, dmc said:

I don't think that works unfortunately which is why no one likes her.  

I don't think so either but these people are shallow. They're attracted to status. Their goal is to keep Bertha on a lower status than them for the sake of maintaining their own status.

First and foremost, they don't like Bertha because she didn't come from the right family or didn't marry into the right family. They don't like Bertha because she wasn't born with status or marry into status.

Sure, they don't like Bertha bulldozing her way through despite their gatekeeping. Sure, that may be an additional reason to dislike Bertha but it's not the primary reason no one likes her.

Edited February 9, 2022 by AntFTW

[MBayGal]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Peggy's plot remains the strongest. I wonder what her father's business is.

According to the HBO website, her father is a pharmacist.

[sistermagpie]

14 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Russell was asked to change his mind but he refused. 

 

11 hours ago, AntFTW said:

George Russell never relayed the message to the aldermen that he would stop. He indicated to the aldermen that he would keep going as punishment for the Morrises snubbing Bertha.

I know George said he wouldn't change his mind, but later he seemed to be telling Bertha that he'd frightened them enough now and would stop. Iow, he wouldn't stop when someone told him to, but he'd show mercy at the last minute when it amused him.

Unfortunately, none of the aldermen yet knew that he was going to do that, so Morris had already killed himself. So I got the impression that his widow will not be ruined financially, but still be a widow.

10 hours ago, dmc said:

It’s always meant no.  And men now still disregard it.  Those men are more often than not, creeps. I am betting he’s a creep. 
 

and I feel like even now women overlook this initial creep behavior to usually bad results.  
 

Because it essentially means he didn’t care what she wanted.  Also he knows her father has just died and left her in a vulnerable position which he’s exploiting. 
 

Unfortunately, I think it often didn't mean no. Part of the whole toxic idea was that girls weren't allowed to just say yes. So part of "no means no" is telling the girl to say what she means too. That's why "Baby, It's Cold Outside" didn't play as threatening when it was first recorded.

Still, it's if Marian is intrigued by that guy she's a nut. It seems like Fellowes would probably want Agnes to be right about him. I can't imagine him wanting to see Agnes have to say she was wrong about this nothing of a lawyer. He already showed Marian's instincts to be terrible regarding that old beau of Ada's who wasn't even nice enough to stay for tea once he found out there was no money to be found there. Marian was practically pushing Ada into his arms when he showed suspiciously intense interest in her.

[Melina22]

7 hours ago, AntFTW said:

My understanding is that it’s a three-part scheme.

There's no part of this scheme that I can get my head around, even on a good day. My mind goes blank at the word "stock" let alone the rest of it. I can't be the only one here who can't follow the business side of the show. 

That said, I fully understood the part where Mr. Thingy was ruined and committed suicide. So many men did this after the stock market crash. And after Bernie Madoff. Etc., etc. So this is one part of the show I'll never say is unrealistic. 

Like so many here, I find the Russells to be horrible people. Meanwhile, maybe it's sacrilege, but despite how much I've admired Carrie as an actress, I don't like her in this part. She plays ambitious and status-driven without any humour or charm or mischievousness. Realistic? Probably. But not that entertaining. 

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

I've admired Carrie as an actress, I don't like her in this part.

This show is my introduction to Carrie C***. I love her.

I am scrolling through her credits and will be watching more of her.

Edited February 9, 2022 by AntFTW

[Melina22]

1 minute ago, AntFTW said:

This show is my introduction to Carrie C***. I love her.

I didn't say my opinion was going to be popular. 😁

[AntFTW]

6 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Mr. Thingy

🤣🤣🤣

[eejm]

I think most of the characters on this show are fun to watch, but I’d loathe to know most of them personally.

[kristen111]

3 hours ago, dmc said:

something there is off....

also do we just have his word she is penniless

 

Ding, ding.  Right.  He handled her Fathers estate.  Supposidely, there was nothing.  Could he be that much of a creep?

[TV Anonymous]

How wealthy was George Russell? He managed to financially outmaneuvered a bunch of aldermen, each of them was already rich, using his own money? If he was that wealthy, what the old money did does not really make sense, as money recognizes money. After all, they were all, without exception, capitalists. None of them became what they were because of aristocracy. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by TV Anonymous

[tennisgurl]

It’s pretty hilarious watching all of the Old Money types laughing off the New Moneys new opera house as a joke. Yeah, considering that place is now The Met, I think New Money won that one. 

[Sakura12]

Wow so don't mess with the Russell's. Even if the Governess gets Mr. Russell to sleep with her. Mrs. Russell will cut a bish. I think she's only used to dealing with the old money types won't say anything and let an affair happen to save face. She's not used to the new money who came from where she is and are not afraid.

Agnes does care about her family. She protected Ada from a gold digger and is trying to make sure Marion is taken care of. The Lawyer in her mind is not that person. She told Ada that she's going to out live her so she won't need to leave her any money.

I like that they showed that it's not that Peggy's father doesn't believe in her its that he knows how the world works. They were never going to let her be her. But I also don't think she should be taking advise from Marion who knows even less how the world works, since she doesn't know how to stop talking. Even Ada had to shut her up. 

I though Chamberlain's scandal would be she divorced her husband and somehow got his money not that she knew her husband before they married. 

Why is Bertha trying to fit in with the old money that don't seem to have all that much actual money and not hanging with the other new money crowd? She should get in on building the Met with them. If they won't let you sit at the table build a new building with a bigger table. That's what her husband is doing. 

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Coincidence? 🤔

[mojito]

9 hours ago, kristen111 said:

So does that maid's plans to get more out of life involve sleeping with Russell? Because she seems to have chosen the worst house in the world to try to...I don't know. She can't think he'd marry her or anything, I guess, but living in the house you'd think she'd notice that the guy loves his wife and that his wife would not think twice about chopping somebody up in a pie for trying it. 

If the maid gets knocked up, she's fixed for life. He won't want anyone to know about his bastard.

7 hours ago, Hiyo said:

If Agnes’s money goes to Oscar .. what about Ada and Marian, should they not marry?

Agnes told Ada in the last episode that she expected to outlive her.

Of the moneyed crowd, I'm not rooting for any of them. They'd never be pals of mine, so I like watching them go at each other. George should've gotten all the men to kneel before him and maybe do worse...I will enjoy this struggle between old and new money.

Someone mentioned that Ada said Chamberlain's baby was born a year too soon. Not so. She said that "their son is...older than he ought to be." I'm guessing Chamberlain went abroad for awhile (maybe even their honeymoon), had the baby, then after another while, adopted it a la Edith Crawley or Loretta Young. My thought is that they knew the boy was hers and that he was older than their marriage, so not only was she "slutty", she thinks she's fooling them. Plus, there's the adopting your own child aspect. 

[buckboard]

I'm not a big fan of conjecturing about what is going to happen in the future, preferring to just let storylines play out.

But I sure would like to know what is going on with Peggy that she needs to see a lawyer.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

A better episode than I expected, but the dearth of George/Larry interaction is fast becoming my pet peeve. In the pilot, George said that Larry would start at his company "right away", but we've seen no evidence of it. And now Larry indicated at dinner that he's uncertain what he wants to do with his life. Was there a deleted scene where he told George he didn't want to come work at his company?

.

[Sarah 103]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:01 PM, AntFTW said:

For all of Oscar's shittiness, he's the only one in the old money group that realizes that the sphere of influence will shift to the new money.

Agreed. Oscar is somewhat pragmatic. 

On 2/7/2022 at 10:38 PM, kristen111 said:

The only thing that surprises me is how ruthless the Russels are and how far they will go.  They are such a team together, it’s scary.

This was the part of the episode that I loved. Bertha and George have each other's backs. You mess with one, you mess with them both. They will help each other and defend each other. They are a major force. 

On 2/7/2022 at 10:58 PM, Straycat80 said:

How old is Gladys Russell suppose to be? She looks 13, but apparently is of an age to marry. 

I think she is supposed to be around 17 or 18. 

23 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I'd like to acknowledge Gladys blackmailing her governess.

I wonder if we will see her do this again.  

23 hours ago, izabella said:

I was so excited for Peggy when she got her publisher's letter, but then reality set in.  Poor Peggy.  Maybe she can submit her stories to black publishers? 

She submitted her stories to black publications, but they either rejected her or did not write back. 

16 hours ago, AntFTW said:

If I could imagine a season finale, it would include Bertha finally being able to fill a ballroom for Gladys’s debut.

This is my prediction for the season finale as well. 

9 hours ago, kristen111 said:

If Agnes’s money goes to Oscar .. what about Ada and Marian, should they not marry?

I'm not sure what happens to Ada, but I am sure Oscar would keep Marian around, because she is an excuse to meet women. He can meet women through her, like friends who stop by for tea. 

24 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

A better episode than I expected, but the dearth of George/Larry interaction is fast becoming my pet peeve. In the pilot, George said that Larry would start at his company "right away", but we've seen no evidence of it. And now Larry indicated at dinner that he's uncertain what he wants to do with his life. Was there a deleted scene where he told George he didn't want to come work at his company?

My guess, and this is only a guess, is that Larry isn't working side by side with George. Larry is working in a different department/part of the company so we wouldn't see him in George's office. 

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Unfortunately, I think it often didn't mean no. Part of the whole toxic idea was that girls weren't allowed to just say yes. So part of "no means no" is telling the girl to say what she means too. That's why "Baby, It's Cold Outside" didn't play as threatening when it was first recorded.

That's what I meant, too. A woman couldn't say straightaway "yes" to sex without giving an impression that she was "easy".

Plus, people always communicate not only with words but behavior.   

 

[MrsR]

Okay I'll throw my two cents in.

On Marion and Mr. Raikes. Well we have railroad tycoons, bankers and real estate wealth but we're missing the other source of vast wealth during the gilded age and that's OIL. And oil means Pennsylvania.

I say that Raikes has hidden some oil holdings in Marion's fathers name and shortly after he gets Marion in front of a J.P.,  he will receive word that Marion is actually well off and he will offer to manage these holdings as a good husband would. Marion will become the dreaded New Money with an Old Money name and connections.

On the stock scheme, margin buying is what caused the 1929 crash. Here's how this works in this show. When you buy on margin you are buying on credit. The stock is 10 dollars but you only put up 1 dollar with a promise to the broker to make good on the 10 when the margin is called in. Typically the margin is not called in for some time giving you time to watch the stock rise, you sell high at 15 and pocket or reinvest.

That was was George proposed to the others. He wins, they win and now they are jolly bedfellows.

But they didn't want him to win. So after agreeing on a handshake they decided instead to short George's stock, a way of betting on him to lose and then arranged for the circumstances - reneging on the new station - so that they win but George loses.

So George has to buy more and more stock - on margin - to keep his stock high, thus making them lose their margined shorts before his margins are called. Very bold. And he plays chicken better than them. George wins. Their shorts ruin at least Mr. Morris and try the others.

Everything about this episode was about value. Peggy's stories, Marion as a romantic interest, Ada, and all the stock manipulations. Loved Bertha's comment about drawing a check on the bank account.

,

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by MrsR

[AntFTW]

11 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

How wealthy was George Russell? He managed to financially outmaneuvered a bunch of aldermen, each of them was already rich, using his own money? If he was that wealthy, what the old money did does not really make sense, as money recognizes money. After all, they were all, without exception, capitalists. None of them became what they were because of aristocracy. 

They are there because of aristocracy, America’s bootleg version of aristocracy anyway. They are there because they’ve inherited wealth. They were born with clout. They used their clout to gain more power. Being wealthy and economically powerful wasn’t enough. They also wanted political power. They used their political power to increase their economic power (gaining more wealth).

They declared war against George Russell. They thought they would have won because they won every war they’ve been in since they were born. They thought they had the guns and soldiers for it but they had no idea that they were outmanned and outgunned.

I imagine George Russell to be based on a mixture of newly wealthy people of that era such as the Vanderbilts, Jay Gould, Andrew Carnegie, and John Rockefeller among others. For their day, these people had such an unimaginable amount of wealth for their time… so much wealth that they could indeed drown a market during that time. The maneuver that George Russell pulled was inspired by an actual event in which Cornelius Vanderbilt, who was the wealthiest person of his time, actually did a similar maneuver and came out on top.

Edited February 9, 2022 by AntFTW

[Hiyo]

Quote

what the old money did does not really make sense, as money recognizes money

Yeah, but the NYC old money society were the descendants of the original colonialists who first arrived in NYC. So in some ways they must have also considered it "their" city.

[Roseanna]

14 hours ago, eejm said:

Agreed.  Agnes said before that she doesn’t like Raikes, and that she’s “never wrong.”  I tend to believe her.

Nobody is never wrong. Agnes had about Ada's admirer that showed his mercenary motives, but that's not the same as simply not liking Mr Raikes for no reason. 

Even if Agnes had always been right in the past (which I doubt), that is no guarantee for the present and future.

14 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I am with aunt Agnes when it comes to Mr Raikes. I was already suspicious after his 'I see something I want, I take it' speech and none of his actions this week have changed my mind. 

To me, a person's actions tell more than his words.

But, like Anne Elliot thought in Jane Austen's Persuasion, one can't really know a person who always speaks and acts in the "right" manner. 

The only matter that has so far made me suspicions towards Mr Raikes is that he asked to meet Marian in the hotel - no decent woman would have accepted that.

[Melina22]

4 hours ago, MrsR said:

On the stock scheme, margin buying is what caused the 1929 crash. Here's how this works in this show. When you buy on margin you are buying on credit. The stock is 10 dollars but you only put up 1 dollar with a promise to the broker to make good on the 10 when the margin is called in. Typically the margin is not called in for some time giving you time to watch the stock rise, you sell high at 15 and pocket or reinvest.

Thank you. I mostly understood this explanation. Now I better understand why George didn't show Mr Morris mercy. It's doubtful they would have shown him any. 

[Roseanna]

9 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I like that they showed that it's not that Peggy's father doesn't believe in her its that he knows how the world works. They were never going to let her be her.

Yes, but if all thought like Peggy's father, things would never change.

1880ies was a very dynamic age f.ex. in the Nordic countries and the young generation of the cultural elite was progressive in many things. Some things changed in the next decades, at least for some groups (workers, women).

So one must remember that Peggy just couldn't know beforehand what was possible for her and what was not. Her only way to find out was try her utmost.

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

Thank you. I mostly understood this explanation. Now I better understand why George didn't show Mr Morris mercy. It's doubtful they would have shown him any. 

They weren’t showing George any mercy. When it looks like George will lose money, they didn’t care. They showed him no mercy. Their attitude is “we’re gonna renege on our deal, you’re stock price will fall, and you’re gonna have to suck it up and deal with it.” They didn’t expect George would go through such an extreme length to ensure their plan didn’t work.
 

When the aldermen are losing money, they expect the “decent thing”, pity, and mercy from George and Bertha.
 

George suspected that when they rescind the approval for the new station, the stock price would have plummeted and they would have bought enough shares to take over his company.

Edited February 9, 2022 by AntFTW

[pasdetrois]

12 hours ago, Melina22 said:

despite how much I've admired Carrie as an actress, I don't like her in this part.

When the Washington Post reviewed this series, it said something like Carrie couldn't really act beyond icy bitchiness due to the writing. Her face is expressionless and she just marches in and out of scenes ordering people around.

[kristen111]

No offense here, but, does anyone think Ada needs new teeth on the top?  Every time I look at her, her teeth seem dull and crooked.  As an actress, new veneers would be good.  No?

[pasdetrois]

I have been distracted by CN's teeth for a while now. Now just in this series. She has a lot of fans, but I find all of her acting to be mannered and affected. She was pretty good in much earlier stuff.

In this series she is pitching her voice higher than normal, and along with her relentless grinning, she ushers me right out of her scenes.

[JenE4]

On 2/8/2022 at 12:35 AM, SnazzyDaisy said:

Frozen mixed vegetables in 1882? 😳

You’re just like me. I get so distracted by the set design and the wardrobe that I forget to pay attention to the dialogue. I just wish your screen grab was just a tinge wider to show the five glasses each diner had at their place setting! I spent that whole scene trying to figure out what could have been in each glass (aside from the obvious red wine and water) and paying attention to who drank what. Everyone seemed to be going for the wine or the water. I guess the other cocktail glasses were for different courses? Later on, I almost missed the entire proposal because I was so intrigued by the Statue of Liberty hand and torch! So many gorgeous dresses this episode, too! … As for the action? I guess a lot of things also occurred!

[sistermagpie]

11 hours ago, mojito said:

If the maid gets knocked up, she's fixed for life. He won't want anyone to know about his bastard.

That's the way one would expect it to be handled, but George seems to like surprising people who try to put him on the spot like that. I like the idea someone else brought up that this woman is basing her plans on what she knows from Old Money people and these are not those people.

3 hours ago, Roseanna said:

 

The only matter that has so far made me suspicions towards Mr Raikes is that he asked to meet Marian in the hotel - no decent woman would have accepted that.

Also I wonder if there's something to how he just showed up in NYC but had made himself sound like a native, telling her all the places they could go.

[Haleth]

It’s going to take me a while to catch up but I wanted to make a couple comments while the show is fresh in my mind.

I love the cultural references that are sneaked in, like the origin story behind the Met (yay team new money!) and Lady Liberty’s hand in the park.

Man, George is ruthless but the man does adore his wife!  And she him. I imagine they have a pretty lusty sex life.  Her maid is going to be terribly disappointed.  I hope.

It’s hard to feel bad for the aldermen but they were delighted to ruin the Russells.  There will probably be a scandal about the suicide.

I feel bad for Ada but it was so astute of Agnes to suss out her suitor’s intentions. It was great that Agnes nipped it in the bud before Ada got hurt.

I read a book recently called The Personal Librarian by Marie Benedict.  It’s a novel but is based on the life of JP Morgan’s rare book and artifact curator, Belle de Costa Greene. She was a Black woman who hid her race for her whole professional career. There are some interesting historical tidbits in the book, like the building of the Met. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Haleth

[dmc]

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Nobody is never wrong. Agnes had about Ada's admirer that showed his mercenary motives, but that's not the same as simply not liking Mr Raikes for no reason. 

Even if Agnes had always been right in the past (which I doubt), that is no guarantee for the present and future.

To me, a person's actions tell more than his words.

But, like Anne Elliot thought in Jane Austen's Persuasion, one can't really know a person who always speaks and acts in the "right" manner. 

The only matter that has so far made me suspicions towards Mr Raikes is that he asked to meet Marian in the hotel - no decent woman would have accepted that.

his actions were to move states for someone who stated I'm not interested in you.  

Edited February 9, 2022 by dmc

[tennisgurl]

36 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

That's the way one would expect it to be handled, but George seems to like surprising people who try to put him on the spot like that.

If the maid tries to pull the "I'm pregnant" card, I can see Bertha arranging for her to meet an unfortunate fall on that big staircase...

[dmc]

9 hours ago, MrsR said:

Okay I'll throw my two cents in.

On Marion and Mr. Raikes. Well we have railroad tycoons, bankers and real estate wealth but we're missing the other source of vast wealth during the gilded age and that's OIL. And oil means Pennsylvania.

I say that Raikes has hidden some oil holdings in Marion's fathers name and shortly after he gets Marion in front of a J.P.,  he will receive word that Marion is actually well off and he will offer to manage these holdings as a good husband would. Marion will become the dreaded New Money with an Old Money name and connections.

On the stock scheme, margin buying is what caused the 1929 crash. Here's how this works in this show. When you buy on margin you are buying on credit. The stock is 10 dollars but you only put up 1 dollar with a promise to the broker to make good on the 10 when the margin is called in. Typically the margin is not called in for some time giving you time to watch the stock rise, you sell high at 15 and pocket or reinvest.

That was was George proposed to the others. He wins, they win and now they are jolly bedfellows.

But they didn't want him to win. So after agreeing on a handshake they decided instead to short George's stock, a way of betting on him to lose and then arranged for the circumstances - reneging on the new station - so that they win but George loses.

So George has to buy more and more stock - on margin - to keep his stock high, thus making them lose their margined shorts before his margins are called. Very bold. And he plays chicken better than them. George wins. Their shorts ruin at least Mr. Morris and try the others.

Everything about this episode was about value. Peggy's stories, Marion as a romantic interest, Ada, and all the stock manipulations. Loved Bertha's comment about drawing a check on the bank account.

,

 

This is season 1 so I don't think Marion will end up with Raikes...she is basically the main character, they will likely toss another 6 suitors at her

I agree that Marion is not penniless though, maybe oil

Edited February 9, 2022 by dmc