S04.E04: Bicephaly

[paulvdb]

Premiere date: December 31, 2021

[Neiman]

I agree with Johnny about poking the bear. Not a good move.

This episode makes me like Sam less than I already did.  

I'm not crazy about the new Cobra Kai sensai.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm weirdly OK with all the different POV. It's so odd, that I get and like Silver and even see some humanity to Kreese.

 

[Frisson]

I’m sad that Silver came far enough to realize he was a psycho terrorizing a teenager to doing it again near the end with Robby. I wish he didn’t feel so indebted to Kreese. Would love to hear more about Kreese’s humanity in the present. 

[readster]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:29 PM, Frisson said:

I’m sad that Silver came far enough to realize he was a psycho terrorizing a teenager to doing it again near the end with Robby. I wish he didn’t feel so indebted to Kreese. Would love to hear more about Kreese’s humanity in the present. 

It was funny how in the first episode, Silver talked about he was doing drugs and how he was acting was out of control, especially against Daniel. I know from an interview they said there was suppose to be a scene where Silver was snorting during his sauna scene, but they cut it out because they thought it was too much then. Of course, after these last few episodes, you get how Silver ended up so screwed up. Went to war, luckily had a great family business and money to come back too. Started Cobra Kai and then went off on his own way and of course, too rich for his own good and took into drugs and drinking. Then in the 90s realized he was a mess and went off with his life. Sadly, learned that now, he's bored, but realizes he did some stupid things he shouldn't be doing now at his age or ever. 

[DoctorAtomic]

jilf. No. Just no. 

I can buy Silver feels he owes Kreese for the fighting cage match in Vietnam, but it doesn't mean they still weren't just always going to be bullies. 

Great deconstruction of Top Gun too. Totally Johnny. How is he so good at karate eating so awful?

What's with the LaRusso women condescending to Tory at her job all the time? That's really not a good look. Yes, the world isn't out to get you, Tory, but Amanda isn't really the person to deliver that message.

Again, I have to hand it to Robby (the actor). I wouldn't say he was right, but he was calm if a little ticked. And he was right to call out the bullying of the kid. 

Peter Cetera is most definitely the opposite of badass. It's treacly garbage. I mean, come on. I'll give you Christopher Cross, but ugh. 

I don't care much about the 'old men', but Silver was right that revenge isn't useful. 

On 12/31/2021 at 12:15 PM, Neiman said:

I agree with Johnny about poking the bear. Not a good move.

Like Kreese doesn't take the wind blowing the wrong way as a slight. It was a good prank. You got got. Take the L and move on. Of course it's akin to murder for Cobra Kai. 

tbh, I hope none of the kids actually die. 

[Racj82]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

jilf. No. Just no. 

I can buy Silver feels he owes Kreese for the fighting cage match in Vietnam, but it doesn't mean they still weren't just always going to be bullies. 

Great deconstruction of Top Gun too. Totally Johnny. How is he so good at karate eating so awful?

What's with the LaRusso women condescending to Tory at her job all the time? That's really not a good look. Yes, the world isn't out to get you, Tory, but Amanda isn't really the person to deliver that message.

Again, I have to hand it to Robby (the actor). I wouldn't say he was right, but he was calm if a little ticked. And he was right to call out the bullying of the kid. 

Peter Cetera is most definitely the opposite of badass. It's treacly garbage. I mean, come on. I'll give you Christopher Cross, but ugh. 

I don't care much about the 'old men', but Silver was right that revenge isn't useful. 

Like Kreese doesn't take the wind blowing the wrong way as a slight. It was a good prank. You got got. Take the L and move on. Of course it's akin to murder for Cobra Kai. 

tbh, I hope none of the kids actually die. 

They could never kill any of the kids. They can joke about karate wars and go too far at times but if any of them dies, this all stops being silly fun. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Yes, but they're psychologically torturing kids. 

[Ambrosefolly]

17 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

What's with the LaRusso women condescending to Tory at her job all the time? That's really not a good look. Yes, the world isn't out to get you, Tory, but Amanda isn't really the person to deliver that message.

It isn't a good look, but considering that in season 2 Tory tried to kill and permanently scarred her (in a fight she physically started) and in season 3 she took part in a home invasion that trashed her house by physically injuring several kids , I don't entirely blame Sam to coming to work and mocking her. She invaded her space and nearly killed her, and her shitty home life is no excuse. There is being unpleasant like Mauve in Sex Education, who only assaulted someone that sexually harassed her & even helped one of her bullies that was being slut shamed, and there being a psycho. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't see that the one justifies the other. Amanda is an adult and a parent; she should be telling Sam to knock it off. Sam has a right to be pissed, but at this point, her parents should be getting her some help. 

[Kel Varnsen]

14 hours ago, Racj82 said:

They could never kill any of the kids. They can joke about karate wars and go too far at times but if any of them dies, this all stops being silly fun. 

I keep thinking how if this show wasn't so light hearted the season would end with Kenny showing up at the All Valley tournament with a gun.

[Ambrosefolly]

54 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't see that the one justifies the other. Amanda is an adult and a parent; she should be telling Sam to knock it off. Sam has a right to be pissed, but at this point, her parents should be getting her some help. 

It doesn't justify it, but it explains the behavior. Amanda and Daniel should have pressed charges, seeing as not only as their house was trashed but kids were injured (including someone being thrown through a window). 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

One thing that bugs: Martin Kove looks like a aging badass. Thomas Ian Griffith does not. He moves awkwardly and his Gi looks like it's going to swallow him.

[Catfi9ht]

My biggest complaint about season 3 is I felt like the writers had no idea what to do with Robbie. Having him join Cobra Kai and trusting Kreese over everyone else made no sense to me. However, it looks like it was just a plot device to have one Cobra Kai and one Miyagi-Do teacher at each dojo.

This season, I feel like Robbie has grown (finally), is seeing the adults for the flawed humans they are, and is trusting his instincts over everyone else. Despite having trash parents, Robbie does have a good moral compass, and I'm glad they're actually showing that this season.

I love the new kid, Kenny, this season. That actor definitely has charisma and has a very empathetic face especially when he's scared. I loved him from the first scene and think he's adorable.

I deeply empathize with Tori. Although our parental situation wasn't the same (mine are drug addicts), I moved out of the house at an early age and had to have two jobs in high school in order to be able to have a roof over my head and eat. I absolutely was the same angry teenager, pissed at her station in life, while being surrounded by friends whose parents bought them cars at 16 with petty, typical teenage problems. The repetitive bad luck and downward spiral for Tori definitely gave me flashbacks of my own life. The birthday party scene where Sam was laughing at Tori just broke my heart for Tori.

I really like Amanda and honestly think she's too good for Daniel, but they're really writing her in such a way where it seems like she came from money because of how she's reacting to knowing about Tori's home life. It's a little disappointing for me because I love Amanda's character, but at the same time, it gives her blind spots and makes her more three-dimensional which I really like.

So far, I'm really enjoying this season. The characters are showing depth and behaving like actual people instead of idealized versions of tropes.

I didn't see it mentioned yet, but the dig on Peter Cetera made me laugh because he did the theme song for Karate Kid Part 2. My husband and I sing it frequently as a joke so it touched us in a very inside joke kinda way.

 

[kickedinthehead]

On 1/4/2022 at 5:47 AM, Catfi9ht said:

I didn't see it mentioned yet, but the dig on Peter Cetera made me laugh because he did the theme song for Karate Kid Part 2. My husband and I sing it frequently as a joke so it touched us in a very inside joke kinda way.

I was a weird kid who was basically IN LOVE with Peter Cetera (I sent him fan letters and everything; and this was years after "The Glory of Love" was a hit) so that made me laugh, too. As did the "Sailing" scene with Daniel and Miguel.

[twoods]

Glory of Love was my heart song growing up because I loved KKII and swooned at all the cute romantic stuff, plus Ralph was the “dreamiest” in that movie. Hearing it still gives me goosebumps, so hearing other 80’s songs on this show makes me nostalgic. I would buy this show’s soundtrack if it had one.

Edited January 6, 2022 by twoods

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 1/5/2022 at 9:09 PM, twoods said:

Glory of Love was my heart song growing up because I loved KKII and swooned at all the cute romantic stuff, plus Ralph was the “dreamiest” in that movie. Hearing it still gives me goosebumps, so hearing other 80’s songs on this show makes me nostalgic. I would buy this show’s soundtrack if it had one.

It may not have an official soundtrack, but it seems like one could relatively easily create a playlist of its best songs on your favorite digital music platform.

https://www.what-song.com/Tvshow/100336/Cobra-Kai

This seems to list all the songs by episode, plus have links to purchase them through iTunes, Spotify, Amazon.

[CrazyDog]

I still can't stand Tori, but I cringed so hard for her when she saw Sam and Amanda. How humiliating for her to be caught out of her usually tough element, despite it being a perfectly honest job to pay the bills. She shouldn't be ashamed of it, but I get it.

But I don't hate Sam either. Tori physically scarred her, and came after her in her own home. Sam got a rare up on her this episode, and it wasn't a good look, but I can empathize with them both.

There was definitely a theme of the Miyagi Dos being the bullies this episode, though I can't really see Cobra Kai (apart from Kenny) as an underdog. But nice layers for everyone as the dynamics shift around.

Robbie continues to set the tone as the most mature one around. 

Thank you, Demetri! Not another rumble, lol.

Johnny's right, they just poked the bear. Daniel was a little annoying in his naivete. Really? He still thinks there won't be a reaction from Kreese?

On 1/1/2022 at 7:52 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Like Kreese doesn't take the wind blowing the wrong way as a slight. It was a good prank. You got got. Take the L and move on. Of course it's akin to murder for Cobra Kai. 

Exactly. C'mon Daniel.

I appreciated the look of surprise and disbelief when Silver and Kreese showed up. Daniel's 80s nightmares keep appearing in his backyard, lol.

I'm enjoying Silver, as unlikely as the whole plot is. And apparently Thomas Ian Griffith has studied martial arts for years, so I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do.

Edited January 7, 2022 by CrazyDog

[tennisgurl]

Tori really brings on a lot of her own problems with her tendency towards violent rages, but I did feel really bad for her when Sam was taking so much glee in seeing her embarrassed. Her life just seems horrible, it doesn't excuse for behavior but it does explain a lot about why she is the way she is, I hope that Amanda can actually give her some support, as it seems like she increasingly feels bad for her. I get why Sam hates her, but this week was not a good look for her. 

Its also really not a good look that the Miyagi kids keep picking on poor little Kenny, who's only crime is being a part of Cobra Kai but is clearly terrified of just about everyone and knows nothing about their greater karate war. At least he has Robbie, who at least has some perspective on how he shouldn't let his mentors be the end all be all for his morals, a lesson just about everyone should learn on this show. 

Now that Terry Silver isn't on cocaine, he is actually a bit of a stabilizing force on Kreese...for now. Kreese just has a way to bring out the crazy in people, and this show has been a real exercise in how easy it is for people to get sucked into old habits and get stuck in the past. 

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Its also really not a good look that the Miyagi kids keep picking on poor little Kenny, who's only crime is being a part of Cobra Kai but is clearly terrified of just about everyone and knows nothing about their greater karate war. At least he has Robbie, who at least has some perspective on how he shouldn't let his mentors be the end all be all for his morals, a lesson just about everyone should learn on this show. 

 

Yeah, I was surprised that Nate and Bert were picking on Kenny. I can say that I think that Hawk was initially reacting to seeing Kenny about to "strike first" but at the drive in they were definitely all leaning into the bully mentality. It's sad because Kenny would be perfect for Miyagi Do but the LaRusso name is attached to it which would make him steer clear.

[munchiewoman]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:37 AM, CrazyDog said:

But I don't hate Sam either. Tori physically scarred her, and came after her in her own home. Sam got a rare up on her this episode, and it wasn't a good look, but I can empathize with them both.

It's one thing for Sam to hate her and not trust her one bit, but to interfere at her job - not to mention messing with that kid's birthday party - was a dick move.  Amanda should not have allowed Sam to taunt her while she was working.  

[CrazyDog]

Sure, that's why I said it wasn't a good look. I am surprised Amanda didn't tell Sam to knock it off. That seemed a little out of character for her. 

They're definitely trying to make Tori more sympathetic, and less of the psycho from last season, scarring Sam, and basically giving her PTSD. We'll see if she has any growth this season, maybe with Amanda's influence. 

[Virtual]

Amanda really needs to double down on Sam. She was pretty much being a verbal bully to Tory while she was trying to do her job. I know Tory did all that stuff to her in the past, but two wrongs do not make a right. It’d be one thing if Tory had confronted Sam first, but Sam walked over and started with her crap the second she saw her. And another thing, Tory never stole Miguel from her. Sam dropped him and wouldn’t even give him the time of day until she saw him with Tory. More like she stole Miguel from Tory and then falsely accused Tory of stealing him when in fact she wasn’t dating him at that time.

Real tough guys Nate and Bert are. It looked like they were gonna gang up on Kenny until Robby showed up and they retreated behind Hawk.

Daniel should know from experience that poking Cobra Kai would be bad (Johnny giving him a bad beating after the water hose, Kreese putting a cobra in Daniel’s dealership). The last thing he should do is applaud the students for that.

Looks like Silver is going to offer a different perspective on Cobra Kai, beyond what Kreese teaches.

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Virtual

[Danny Franks]

11 hours ago, Virtual said:

Amanda really needs to double down on Sam. She was pretty much being a verbal bully to Tory while she was trying to do her job. I know Tory did all that stuff to her in the past, but two wrongs do not make a right. It’d be one thing if Tory had confronted Sam first, but Sam walked over and started with her crap the second she saw her. And another thing, Tory never stole Miguel from her. Sam dropped him and wouldn’t even give him the time of day until she saw him with Tory. More like she stole Miguel from Tory and then falsely accused Tory of stealing him when in fact she wasn’t dating him at that time.

The whole love square is messy, but I get the sense Sam would like to have both boys and will always resent anyone who dates either of them. She's certainly grown up privileged, and Robby hit the target dead centre when he said he was the first person to ever tell her "you're not getting what you want."

I don't dislike Sam, but she's challenged that in a number of ways since the end of season two. In hindsight her pursuit of Robby is distasteful, considering he said himself that he didn't want to mess up the first good thing that had happened to him in a long time. Lo and behold, being with Sam does mess it up, when he listens to her saying she can't go home drunk and ends up being kicked out of the LaRussos' house. Then we find out she's still not over Miguel, which just compounds the fact Robby to screwed himself over for no reason.

I have noticed a tendency among fans of the show (on reddit, certainly) to blame the girls for everything and put Miguel, in particular, on a pedestal as an angel who can do no wrong. That's something I vehemently disagree with, but Sam has definitely made choices that have hurt other people and have caused issues that ripple out through the show.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Danny Franks

[DeeDee79]

26 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I have noticed a tendency among fans of the show (on reddit, certainly) to blame the girls for everything and put Miguel, in particular, on a pedestal as an angel who can do no wrong. 

From what I've seen online fans blame Miguel for the initial break up between him and Sam and for cheating on Tory. For the most part I haven't seen anything (here, Tumblr, Reddit) acting as if he's squeaky clean in all of this. If anything that's usually how Robby is viewed by fandom IMO.

29 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

The whole love square is messy, but I get the sense Sam would like to have both boys and will always resent anyone who dates either of them. She's certainly grown up privileged, and Robby hit the target dead centre when he said he was the first person to ever tell her "you're not getting what you want.

Agree. That moment when Robby told her that would have been sweeter if it didn't come right after his talk with Tory which is what probably prompted him to have that response. 

[Danny Franks]

20 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

From what I've seen online fans blame Miguel for the initial break up between him and Sam and for cheating on Tory. For the most part I haven't seen anything (here, Tumblr, Reddit) acting as if he's squeaky clean in all of this. If anything that's usually how Robby is viewed by fandom IMO.

Since I started watching the show, I've been reading the Cobra Kai subreddit and Robby is definitely unpopular over there, while Miguel and Hawk are the clear favourites. They even have a favourite character poll running, with Robby eliminated while those two, as well as Johnny, Daniel, Kreese and Silver are still in the running. Of course, all the female characters were eliminated fairly quickly.

Of course, fandoms can change quickly, so the tone there might be different than it was a few months ago. One thing that's consistent, though, is that they really hate Sam (while also seeing her as a prize that their favourite boy should win) to the point where Mary Mouser joked about everyone hating Sam in a recent interview.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Danny Franks

[DeeDee79]

21 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Since I started watching the show, I've been reading the Cobra Kai subreddit and Robby is definitely unpopular over there, while Miguel and Hawk are the clear favourites. They even have a favourite character poll running, with Robby eliminated while those two, as well as Johnny, Daniel, Kreese and Silver are still in the running. Of course, all the female characters were eliminated fairly quickly.

Of course, fandoms can change quickly, so the tone there might be different than it was a few months ago. One thing that's consistent, though, is that they really hate Sam (while also seeing her as a prize that their favourite boy should win) to the point where Mary Mouser joked about everyone hating Sam in a recent interview.

From my browsing Hawk fluctuates between most loved and most hated depending on whether the debate is being held by Demetri fans and Robby is woobified by fandom because of his strained relationships with just about everyone on the show. I can honestly say that it seems like everything that Robby has done from his first appearance has been excused because of Johnny being a bad father and Daniel kicking him out. I agree about the female characters; they seem to hate Sam with a passion. She's not my favorite or even one of them but I don't get the intense dislike for her character. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by DeeDee79

[Kirkydee]

Did anybody else get the feeling Toris new job was going to be a stripper or a pole dancer?  Especially with her scuzzy looking boss

Edited January 22, 2022 by Kirkydee
Complete

[Morrigan2575]

13 hours ago, Kirkydee said:

Did anybody else get the feeling Toris new job was going to be a stripper or a pole dancer?  Especially with her scuzzy looking boss

That's honestly what I thought when we first saw her in makeup and the sleazy manager. I was pleasantly happy when it turned out to be a character for a children's party.

I know the whole thing is Sam vs Tory but, I have to say Sam was a shit because she could have ruined some kids BDay party. At the same time she's a teen which of course means she's self centered so it's not exactly surprising that she didn't realize the world doesn't revolve around her.

[Raja]

On 1/22/2022 at 12:53 AM, Kirkydee said:

Did anybody else get the feeling Toris new job was going to be a stripper or a pole dancer?  Especially with her scuzzy looking boss

It was an uncomfortable moment, Tory being under 18. Not as bad as Sensi Kreese saving her from a rapist which they had done earlier

[Virtual]

On 1/22/2022 at 2:53 AM, Kirkydee said:

Did anybody else get the feeling Toris new job was going to be a stripper or a pole dancer?  Especially with her scuzzy looking boss

I was hoping it wouldn’t be the case and thankfully it wasn’t, but signs weren’t looking good at first.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 1/2/2022 at 4:45 PM, Ambrosefolly said:

It isn't a good look, but considering that in season 2 Tory tried to kill and permanently scarred her (in a fight she physically started) and in season 3 she took part in a home invasion that trashed her house by physically injuring several kids , I don't entirely blame Sam to coming to work and mocking her. She invaded her space and nearly killed her, and her shitty home life is no excuse. There is being unpleasant like Mauve in Sex Education, who only assaulted someone that sexually harassed her & even helped one of her bullies that was being slut shamed, and there being a psycho. 

Yeah--absolutely no sympathy whatsoever. Tory never seems to learn from her mistakes--at the drive in I heaved a sigh when yet AGAIN she shows up ready to fight.

 

On 1/4/2022 at 8:47 AM, Catfi9ht said:

I love the new kid, Kenny, this season. That actor definitely has charisma and has a very empathetic face especially when he's scared. I loved him from the first scene and think he's adorable.

I like him too. Good actor.

 

On 1/7/2022 at 10:37 AM, CrazyDog said:

I still can't stand Tori, but I cringed so hard for her when she saw Sam and Amanda. How humiliating for her to be caught out of her usually tough element, despite it being a perfectly honest job to pay the bills. She shouldn't be ashamed of it, but I get it.

That actually seemed like a really cute, fun job and it seemed as though she was doing it well. I don't agree with Sam trolling her (although frankly I can't blame her) but Tori had nothing to be ashamed of. The kids were having fun.

 

On 1/7/2022 at 12:56 PM, tennisgurl said:

Tori really brings on a lot of her own problems with her tendency towards violent rages, but I did feel really bad for her when Sam was taking so much glee in seeing her embarrassed. Her life just seems horrible, it doesn't excuse for behavior but it does explain a lot about why she is the way she is, I hope that Amanda can actually give her some support, as it seems like she increasingly feels bad for her. I get why Sam hates her, but this week was not a good look for her. 

Yeah, [redacted] Tori. She honestly deserves it. Although this was the first episode where I felt anything but loathing for her.

 

On 1/21/2022 at 2:20 AM, DeeDee79 said:

they seem to hate Sam with a passion. She's not my favorite or even one of them but I don't get the intense dislike for her character. 

That's fandom. Women/girl characters are scrutinized to a ridiculous degree, and held to an extraordinary standard. See: Mad Men, where Don can abandon his family for three weeks and "that's just Don" but Betty is the worst parent ever. Well, at least she was THERE. Within many fandoms there is often one designated "approved" female character (Hermione, Princess Leia) and all the rest are nitpicked to death. This is why I stop listening as soon as the term "Mary Sue" enters the conversation. Once upon a time it had a useful meaning (an unrealistically perfect original character who is often a self-insert for the author)--now it is used almost entirely to denigrate the very existence of female characters.

[readster]

The biggest problem with Amanda's character is she still doesn't get how bad Cobra Kai really was from it's founding including the origins of its martial arts to how Silver and Kreese ran the place. Yes, she gets how they manipulated the teens from the 70s to 80s and they ended up in better places in life, even if it took longer with with Johnny and others. 
However, she saw how bad Kreese was and what type of monster he was and what it was doing to the teens in the current version of Cobra Kai. I get tired of her going: "Your stupid little karate thing." Yes, but it almost got your daughter killed. Your son bullied another one to the point he is now a 14 year old waiting to get arrested (who's parents don't want to deal with their kids issues). To where every time Silver is involved. Not only does Daniel get screwed over, but anything he touches ruins things for her. At what point does Amanda go: "Holy Shit, everyone involved in Cobra Kai was evil or manipulative, you know what I should just believe Daniel and Chozen." 

[Raja]

In my first rewatch I came to the Carmen talking about Top Gun with Johnny scene. With him being the Iron Eagle fan and snarking the self proclaimed Maverick in favor of Val Kilmer's Iceman. 

With Chad McQueen/Dutch recent real world passing Hawk was still firmly in that role. With Nate and Burt falling behind him and Kenny getting behind Robby at the drive in theatre almost rumble. While not the full on Cobra Kai bully but now as the Eagle Fang enforcer as Miguel continues his rehabilitation