S04.E08: No Kindness for the Coward

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, Moose135 said:

He actually has two new shows in development, Kansas City and Land Man, about the oil and gas industry in West Texas. That will be six shows - seven if you add The Last Cowboy, the reality show that follows the reining horse competitive riders. I guess Paramount is looking to be all-Sheridan, all the time.

Wow, talk about being spread too thin. 

I know he's just playing a character on Yellowstone but he comes across as kind of a dick, so I'll be done with him when this show is over.   

[Moose135]

7 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

I know he's just playing a character on Yellowstone but he comes across as kind of a dick,

We watched The Last Cowboy. It was really pretty interesting - it's two seasons, six episodes each, and we went through them in a week or two. Sheridan is included in the show, both for "talking head" bits as well as announcing the riding competition. It may be a character on Yellowstone, but he is full of himself on TLC too.

[jacourt]

Could part of Beth’s anger be that John openly blamed her for his wife’s death. Sitting at the family table with the empty seats reminds her of this. 

[Tatum]

27 minutes ago, jacourt said:

Could part of Beth’s anger be that John openly blamed her for his wife’s death. Sitting at the family table with the empty seats reminds her of this. 

I am sure this is a big part of why Beth is the way she is, but I don't think she's angry at John. She blames herself and feels unworthy of love and forgiveness and she thinks John is some kind of saint for forgiving her anyways. When really, what John should have done is reassured her that he did not blame her, that it wasn't her fault, and it was just an unforeseen tragedy that could have happened to anyone. And not to victim blame, but if Beth was so uncomfortable and nervous on a horse, perhaps it wasn't brilliant of Evelyn to force her to ride one and insist on going so far from the house in an area Beth didn't know and had to navigate while traumatized.

 

But otherwise, yes, I think you are right, sitting at that table is a constant reopening of the wound for Beth. Would be nice if she would just maturely ask if they could rearrange their dinner setup but John would probably balk.

[BrownBear2012]

6 hours ago, Tatum said:

Taylor Sheridan wrote Wind River, which I thought was very good. It doesn't even seem like the same writer now.

 

I think this was a nice callback to a scene from either season 2 or 3 where Beth goes on a tirade, throws down her napkin, and flounces off, and Kayce and John kind of snicker and John says something like, has she ever made it through a full meal?

 

Beth has said before she hates sitting at the dinner table because it's too much of a reminder of all they've lost. And it's pretty in character for Beth that if she doesn't like something, she has to ruin it for everyone else as well.

 Her schtick is getting old.

[BrownBear2012]

4 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

In addition to 6666 and 1883, Sheridan and Terrence Winter are also writing a show for Paramount+ called Kansas City.  It stars Sylvester Stallone but I haven't seen a release date for it.   

Yeah...I read about that. He's done with Yellowstone. He probably lays out a some general themes for his writing team and that's about it. It's too bad...he seems to be spreading himself a little thin. I don't see Yellowstone having much a future now. I read that Kevin Costner wants out...he doesn't like spending so much time away from his family. Oh well...

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

I am sure this is a big part of why Beth is the way she is, but I don't think she's angry at John. She blames herself and feels unworthy of love and forgiveness and she thinks John is some kind of saint for forgiving her anyways. When really, what John should have done is reassured her that he did not blame her, that it wasn't her fault, and it was just an unforeseen tragedy that could have happened to anyone. And not to victim blame, but if Beth was so uncomfortable and nervous on a horse, perhaps it wasn't brilliant of Evelyn to force her to ride one and insist on going so far from the house in an area Beth didn't know and had to navigate while traumatized.

 

But otherwise, yes, I think you are right, sitting at that table is a constant reopening of the wound for Beth. Would be nice if she would just maturely ask if they could rearrange their dinner setup but John would probably balk.

They need family therapy...what a dysfunctional mess.

[joliefaire]

Any other fans of the Beth-Rip relationship here?  If you haven't yet listened to this, its more than worth it.

 

[Guinnessgirl]

That was awesome.  Thank you for that Joliefaire!

 

[rhygirl720]

after second watch:

Jimmy clearly has a type. I don't mind the 6666 stuff but I need more Yellowstone. Make the episode longer if you insist on the extra stuff. The Yellowstone plot hasn't moved much because how could it? 20 mins per episode.

Family dinner best scene of the night.

Beth is like an evil MaryJane. Clearly, she is smarter, badder and indestructible! The fact that Gray hair isn't on to her is not even remotely believable.

I did watch 1886 and it's obvious where Sheridan is spending his time.

I fear/ feel the wolf is an omen. I'm not a Monica fan but I do like her and Kacey's relationship ( mostly) But I have a bad feeling the wolf is a warning.

Jaime's story is pathetic. I can't wait for the showdown with john and Randal. Jaime you are the AG and have knowledge of attempted murder...of your family that you were raised with? and you are too weak to do anything? Where is the smart accomplished Lawyer?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The whole time I was forwarding through my DVR to watch this show, I was anticipating the vitriol I would find in this thread.  Y'all done good.

Beth - You want to beat ME?  Figure out a way to hire Monica.  Everything she touches turns to feces.

It's amazing how poorly the "normal" scenes work on this series.  I can never get past how truly twisted they all are.  The dinner and the pregnancy reveal scenes were well done.  And I could not accept them at face value.  My loss, but Sheridan's responsible.

The diner scene broke very badly.  Y's Hank was sacrificed.  It did take me back to Dirty Harry, which is never a bad thing.

I do enjoy the mystical references, despite myself.  I can't decide if the wolf is a protector or a harbinger of great ill.  I do know it is a magnificent animal.

 

[joliefaire]

10 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The diner scene broke very badly.  Y's Hank was sacrificed.

I must be missing something.  What does this mean?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

25 minutes ago, joliefaire said:

I must be missing something.  What does this mean?

It was a particularly violent scene where John and Rip's good intentions ended up being a catalyst for chaos and carnage.  Things went (broke) very bad. 

Spoiler

A major character in Breaking Bad was Hank, a good guy law enforcement officer who met a bad fate, and was heroic at the end - very much like the Sheriff in Y.

 

[joliefaire]

4 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

It was a particularly violent scene where John and Rip's good intentions ended up being a catalyst for chaos and carnage.  Things went (broke) very bad. 

  Reveal spoiler

A major character in Breaking Bad was Hank, a good guy law enforcement officer who met a bad fate, and was heroic at the end - very much like the Sheriff in Y.

Ah, got it.  I missed the Breaking Bad reference.

 

[KittyQ]

Diner scene -

First: We kept waiting for someone to say, "Stay cool, Honey Bunny!" It was also a big disappointment that Samuel L. Jackson wasn't there to deliver his Ezekiel quote. 

Second: I hope that the rest of the diner patrons were able to avoid getting shot. 

[pasdetrois]

On 12/19/2021 at 9:41 PM, Msample said:

Plus the usual 20 minutes of ads - some of which are more force feeding the Taylor Sheridan multiverse down our throats.

These are essentially  vanity projects. Or better known as Friends and Family Productions. With so many talented actors going without work, I hate to see the leaden Faith Hill and Tim McGraw splashed all over my TV.

[Dowel Jones]

Vanity projects they may be, but I have to give credit to Sheridan for some planning, if that indeed is what he's doing.  Yellowstone has been written into a corner with the same lather/rinse/repeat plots every week, and may be losing viewership if it goes on much longer.  The other two shows at least offer some opportunity to explore the Western myth a little deeper without the blah blah blah.  That is, if they don't follow the same path as Yellowstone.  Disclaimer:  I'm not watching the progress on either 6666 or 1883, so I don't know how they are performing.

[The Pretender]

Late to the game but yet another good episode. I don't expect every episode to be great but I far from think Taylor is lacking or has lost interest in this show. It still beats a lot of shows that's out there currently. 

The dinner table scenes are epic. Beth needed to hear that from Rip and I know things need to evolve but I'll miss the good 'ol table in case we won't be there in the future. (I just watched ep9 and I'm now kind of regretting wishing for more good 'ol table scenes yikes I never thought I would see a JD/Beth rift). Seeing Rip and Carter in the main house is fun. I would've loved to see them actually moving in to the house & like exploring their room/s but I get we don't have time for that so I'll just imagine it & it's still fun.  

RIP Sheriff, I'll miss Haskell. He was a nice reaccuring character as he was hard to pinpoint. I'll also miss Dillon as I don't watch the other show he's now on, good actor. 

On 12/20/2021 at 5:31 AM, mledawn said:

"What in the fuck was that about? What kinda childhood bullshit are you working out at the dinner table!?" I laughed. 

That was for sure a LOL moment. Rip is awesome, and perfect for her. 

On 12/20/2021 at 7:01 AM, MzLiz said:

I’m all about 1883, so I don’t mind the extra scenes.

I hope there isn’t a 6666 spinoff because that is straight up boring. I mean the 1883 is interesting and well written and the history of the Dutton family and John’s ancestor.

I LOVED the second dinner scene. And good for Rip calling her out on her behavior. 

1883 is so great right!? I was thinking the first two episodes were just a fluke but ep 3 proved me wrong. It's brilliant! 

And yes I also loved the dinner scene (I actually love all of them as I feed on dysfunction lol), I love how well Rip reads Beth and just gave her such an easy solve for a (for her) huge threshold. 

On 12/20/2021 at 3:27 PM, NeenerNeener said:

Maybe it's just more noticeable because he's gotten bigger and he's in fewer scenes these days. I thought he did pretty well playing traumatized back in seasons 2 and 3 but that was pre-covid and they might have been working with him more back then than they can do now.

Yeah I wrote something about this kid in a previous post. I used to think he did a marvelous job on previous seasons but this season he just seems off. I'm not sure if the writer/director wants him like this or if it's some preteen thing. I'm hoping he will be back in form soon so I can give him praise again. 

On 12/20/2021 at 5:40 PM, Crashcourse said:

I'm hoping there's just one more season of Yellowstone.  Then I can be done with Taylor Sheridan.

Why though? I don't get comments like that. Like why don't you (as in all people writing comments like this and not you per se) just go watch something else and let those of us that still love the show watch it? I didn't like Mayor of Kingstown so I just stopped watching, I would never wish it gone as there are clearly fans of the show still watching. 

On 12/22/2021 at 7:06 PM, joliefaire said:

Any other fans of the Beth-Rip relationship here?  If you haven't yet listened to this, its more than worth it.

Diehard Beth-Rip shipper here, I'll die on that hill for them. Thanks for that. Had not seen it. Goosebumps. I love how the actors also takes the relationship serious per the bts material after each episode. I still haven't gotten around to the new podcast but I will as I want everything Rip/Beth related I can get. 

[Dowel Jones]

10 minutes ago, The Pretender said:

RIP Sheriff, I'll miss Haskell. He was a nice reaccuring character as he was hard to pinpoint.

Let's not forget that he was all in on the massacres of the militia group when Kayce went hunting them down.

[MBayGal]

25 minutes ago, The Pretender said:

On 12/20/2021 at 8:40 AM, Crashcourse said:

I'm hoping there's just one more season of Yellowstone.  Then I can be done with Taylor Sheridan.

Why though? I don't get comments like that. Like why don't you (as in all people writing comments like this and not you per se) just go watch something else and let those of us that still love the show watch it?

I do watch other things, and no show is just what I want it to be all the time. My frustration, and I think that of many others here, is that the show I enjoyed in the first three seasons has been diluted by what seem to be vanity projects of Sheridan.  So he can ride horses that do tricks. How many times do we have to see this?  It takes up time that I would rather have spent on the dynamics of the Dutton family.  Jimmy in Texas with another woman throwing herself at him has nothing to do with Montana or the Duttons. I like the show when it focuses on the original plot; I dislike the parts that strike me as superfluous and intrusive.

[mledawn]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

Let's not forget that he was all in on the massacres of the militia group when Kayce went hunting them down.

Haskell was also in on the Tate rescue, where I think as a character we really saw more of who he was/could be. The Becks obviously had paid him off to try and screw over the Duttons and he was terrible at it. Keeping the shotgun shells in his pocket at the scene? Terrible criminal. But, when it came time to join the search for Tate, Haskell stepped up. I really liked that scene where he tried to stop Kayce from going into the bathroom to see how Tate was kept. 

In the end, he was just one of those awkward guys who tried to fit in somewhere. He tried playing the angles but settled back where he started - with these people he knew from childhood.

[Litnit]

The horse stuff gets old but it's on point for the show. The Tate bathtub scene was super cringey, didn't advance plot or character, and left me wondering if these writers have ever been around children? Our youngest is 10 and we haven't bathed her for a couple of years. Proximity of course but not toweling her off. The Jimmy stuff is equally cringey, though sex on a couch with a recently broken back/neck is hella impressive.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Jamie's baby mama is a lot more politically savvy than he is. What are the odds he'll marry her in a misplaced sense of gratitude? Plus it'll look better in the ads to have his wife and baby with him.

Jimmy really seems to like bossy women. Poor guy is just too earnest for his own good. At least Emily seems sincere and kind, unlike Mia.

Has RIP never eaten in the main house before? Or ever at a proper dinner table? Meanwhile, why would Beth be discussing all that sex stuff in front of Carter? Whatever, he sure cleaned up good. He almost looked cherubic.

Summer seemed surprised she was getting arrested this time. But wow, Beth is amazing when she uses her powers for sorta good. She's the proverbial fox in the ME henhouse playing 3-D chess.

Wonder who John will slide in as the new sheriff? Or will Jamie put his bio-dad in the position?

Quote

Also I think Taylor Sheridan assumes Monica is a fan favorite so we will probably never be rid of her.

We may never be rid of her but I think Sheridan and the actress who plays her are aware Monica isn't well-liked. Once it became known among the viewers that the actress isn't Native American, Monica's stock starting sinking fast. On certain areas of the internet people have been quite vocal about it. A common thought seems to be that today no one should be "cosplaying" another race/ethnicity except maybe as comedy or satire--but even then it's iffy. The practice is particularly problematic for Native characters because Hollywood had a long, bad history of White actors basically doing redface in old western TV shows and movies. Sheridan doesn't seem to care.

Re "breaking bad":

Spoiler

Well, there's dying heroically like Sheriff Haskell, and then there's stopping to call your wife to brag instead of following police procedure, thereby giving the really bad guys time to show up and kill you. Are we bringing that argument over here now, lol? I've watched that Breaking Bad episode many times and my mind has not changed about Hank's death. 😊

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Joimiaroxeu
spoiler tag

[maggiemae]

Hmm - perhaps the oyster fork was for Rocky Mountain Oysters.

[Milburn Stone]

On 12/20/2021 at 8:04 AM, Tatum said:

Tate is a terrible actor. Like, absolutely terrible.

I'm not so sure it isn't the writing. Sheridan* is still writing for him like he's eight. Those same exact lines sound cute and precocious when they come out of a smaller kid's mouth. Coming out of a pre-adolescent? No.

I feel for the actor. Sheridan's giving him dialogue no actor of his age should have to play.

*or whoever is actually writing this

Edited March 22, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[AnnA]

On 2/27/2022 at 11:38 PM, maggiemae said:

Hmm - perhaps the oyster fork was for Rocky Mountain Oysters.

Beth actually said "oyster spoon."  I never heard of an oyster spoon but like you, I know there are oyster forks.

Maybe oyster spoons exist and I never ran across one even though I live on Long Island and not far from Oyster Bay LOL  Then again, maybe whoever wrote those lines never ate oysters.

Edited March 26, 2022 by AnnA

[Crashcourse]

15 hours ago, AnnA said:

Then again, maybe whoever wrote those lines never ate oysters.

or Rocky Mountain Oysters.  😉

[RedHawk]

On 12/20/2021 at 12:37 AM, ShortyMac said:

Beth at dinner was hilarious. I love her.

Watching Carter spoon that amazing-looking chocolate cake (from the center, no less!) on top of his salad was disgusting. Get a clean plate!

That whole scene was gold, best of the season (so far) for me. Beth's dinnertime behavior has been outrageous for so long. John has just given up and waits for her to stomp off so he can finish his meal in peace. Turns out every time she was just begging not to have to sit at THAT table. Good for Rip for always calling her out and also always being honest when he doesn't know the meaning of a word or understand what she is saying. And she never makes him feel less for it. 

John gave Carter permission to eat the cake with the steak but he didn't mean on top of it! There were plenty of clean plates within reach. John also looked disgusted but chose not to say anything because he suggested it. ;-) Let the boy enjoy his fine first meal in the big house.

Carter: "Are we still talking about the salad?" He really held his own in that conversation. And "Why don't you just ask her?" Carter is sharp.

And plainspoken Rip: "The salad has fruit in it. I don't want that." 

On 12/20/2021 at 2:25 AM, Dowel Jones said:

Why did the dinner table have three extra place settings?  And oyster forks?  C'mon, John would have dispensed with that long ago, unless he's still paying homage to some previous ancestor.  I agree, though, Rip stepping on Beth finally put a stop to the angry dinner exits.

On 12/20/2021 at 2:12 PM, RedDelicious said:

They have a lot of expensive dinnerware at the main house.  Ralph Lauren and Waterford crystal, Royal Copenhagen china. Beth's coffee mug from a few episodes ago alone retails for $166.  

My guess is Gator sets the table. Maybe he doesn't know that they don't use the oyster fork or maybe John insists on a full place setting. Hard to say. I just want that biscuit recipe!

The table has always been formally set with all the extra places, however, a proper table setting uses only the utensils that will be needed with the  meal. Not serving oysters? Then there should not be oyster forks, or spoons, or whatever.

My thinking is that the tableware was purchased by Evelyn who may have been "new money" so used it to show off her expensive taste without knowing the etiquette rules. Also, I'm sure she wanted to raise her children with some culture and proper table manners so they didn't act like they were raised in a bunkhouse when they went out into the world. John keeps the table set the way she did it. Beth pointing out the ridiculousness of the oyster spoons is her way of still being annoyed at her mother's over-formality and angry that John keeps Evelyn's ghost hovering over her/them.

It's always intriguing to me that John drinks wine with dinner. Would like to see his wine cellar.

A scene with Gator making biscuits would be the best thing ever.

On 12/19/2021 at 9:36 PM, Crashcourse said:

I'll be curious to see how this protester stuff works out.  I want Silverhair's assistant to find out about Beth's shenanigans so he and Silverhair get the best of her.  

Too bad the sheriff got killed, but I wonder if John will be seen as a hero and that helps his chance at being Governor. 

I want Silverhair [the character name "Caroline Warner" just doesn't stick, does it?] and her assistant Ellis to get the best of Beth for a while so we can see Beth come roaring back in some surprising, clever fashion. I hope she makes a true alliance with Summer, would be fun to see Summer evolve and show Beth she has grit and a brain, and for Beth to respect her for it.

Edited July 24, 2022 by RedHawk