The Human Beings Known as the Arnold-Klein Family

[BizBuzz]

Ever have one of these days:

 

[mbutterfly]

Here's the article where Jen said that she was really trying to meet female friends. The website that they met on was datealittle.com.

 

http://starcasm.net/archives/272136

I do imagine Jen fudged the story a bit, but I can believe she might go onto datalittle just to expand her little person friendship (male and female) circle of friends. 

[xldb2004]

Here's the article where Jen said that she was really trying to meet female friends. The website that they met on was datealittle.com.

 

http://starcasm.net/archives/272136

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.  For example, if Jen says she was looking for female friends, I choose to believe her until proven wrong.  My default is not to think she is lying until proven she is telling the truth so I don't have an issue with "pretending"  

[Honey]

I don't care one way or the other if she's Pinocchio, or Honest Abe.  None of it effects me personally, or my enjoyment of the show.

[BizBuzz]

Looks like on Sunday Jen tweeted about Bill getting surgery on Monday, and she hasn't tweeted anything else since then.  Here is an article that talks about it released on the same day. 

 

I for one am holding positive thoughts that whatever this surgery is, that he will be ok for his wife and kids.  Having just been through my sister having surgery yesterday, I can only imagine what the family and friends are going through.

[Honey]

Looks like on Sunday Jen tweeted about Bill getting surgery on Monday, and she hasn't tweeted anything else since then.  Here is an article that talks about it released on the same day. 

 

I for one am holding positive thoughts that whatever this surgery is, that he will be ok for his wife and kids.  Having just been through my sister having surgery yesterday, I can only imagine what the family and friends are going through.

I assume that's his back surgery.  Finally, he's needed that for as long as I can remember.  I hope it greatly improves his mobility, and his ability to play with his kids, without pain.

[wrestlesflamingos]

It's probably the type of procedure that takes some time to judge. Maybe even some physical therapy. I tend to think no news is good news.

[Ipse Dixit]

Just came by to see what was going on in LCLand, and feel obliged to mention that the couple met up with the young woman (little person) whose mom taught Bill to dance the salsa. So yes, there are other folks of their stature in their circle of friends.

Back to lurk mode, but with prayers for Bill's full & successful recovery as well!

[roamyn]

Now that the disgusting Honey Boo Boo people are gone,

Let's have an Arnold-Klein update special.

Esp since we're apparently going to be subjected to 1400 grandkids & counting to infinity for the rest of our lives.

[jodo]

I have to admit, after following all of the other TL C families, I think the Arnold-Klein family is the nicest, and has the most class. It makes me wonder why they would affiliate themselves with this network.

I don't think they would still have a show if they had not adopted Will and Zoey.    

Edited October 27, 2014 by jodo

[BizBuzz]

I am just curious auntl, is there another network that does reality tv that their kind of show would fit?  I am asking with genuine curiosity.  I don't watch reality tv, so I don't know what is out there as far as networks go that show reality tv.  Could The Little Couple fit with programming styles on another network?

[ZoloftBlob]

As I think about it.... TLC really has the niche for *family* shows.

 

History has a few business based shows that get a bit family (Pawn Stars, American Pickers) and AE has some shows that are reality based with people with family (thinking Duck Dynasty and Storage Wars) but TLC is really the channel that has gotten on board with family shows that highlight children. Frankly the Little Couple was an oddity on TLC in that it didn't have children until recently.

[jodo]

The Six Little McGhees is carried on OWN, Jennie and Tori are on Life and there is also E'.  I am sure there are others.    

[wrestlesflamingos]

If the show was on E!, Zoe would already have filler in her lips and Will would have a DUI.

[jodo]

And Oprah is all about education!

[wrestlesflamingos]

Yes, totally!!

http://ownca.oprah.com/Shows/lindsay.aspx

[BizBuzz]

I have TLC, but I don't have OWN, so I am assuming to reach more people, TLC would be a more likely candidate because they are part of basic digital cable for most providers.  I can't see family life on E!, but then again, I don't watch, so I don't know.  I can't see Reality TV on PBS, that is public broadcasting, I don't think they would stoop to carrying a reality show.  A documentary maybe, but not a continual reality series.

 

It seems TLC owns the market right now for family type reality shows.  Until someone else comes along and creates a different market with different shows, they are stuck with the one who brought them.

[ZoloftBlob]

A PBS Little Couple would definitely have a different tone. For starters I don't think they pay people to be in their documentaries and I don't think they have the money to offer.

[jodo]

Yes, totally!!

http://ownca.oprah.com/Shows/lindsay.aspx

 

A journey of addiction and a struggle with recovery.  

They could just decide that if there isn't a tasteful, educational outlet to tell their story, then they just won't tell it.

 

I guess the other route might be a book.  I think their affiliation with a network like TLC definitely takes them down a notch.  I used to think of A&E as being such a great educational entertaining channel, same with TLC but they both stopped selling learning a long time ago.

Edited October 28, 2014 by jodo

[wrestlesflamingos]

The Lindsay show featured her drunk, blowing off work, stealing, and lying. At one point, Oprah says there's nothing more to Lindsay. She has no depth. It was not a tasteful study of addiction. It was a money grab reality show to draw attention to her new network.

Its a thought trap to judge the Klein's for being on TLC. If you didn't watch the network, you wouldn't know about the show. Ergo, you are exactly the audience they intended and this is exactly as high brow as you want.

[jodo]

I too question what the Kleins are doing more than what the viewers are watching.  I wonder what the links to these other networks off the home page of TLC mean? Is there some percentage of shared ownership, any tv people out there in the know?  If you scroll down to the bottom of the page to OUR SITES. 

 

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows

Edited October 28, 2014 by jodo

[wrestlesflamingos]

I can understand that curiosity. I've always thought the answer is because TLC is the only company that was willing to make the show. I also get that they don't totally fit in. Part of the exercise here was to suss out another network that's a better fit and there hasn't been an answer.

auntl, you mentioned PBS a few times. They don't show any reality programs. I would not be happy with tax dollars paying for a reality show and that's the P of PBS.

I don't know if the AK's were ever considering or offered a documentary. It's not a very compelling story: People with dwarfism get along fine, deal with challenges maturely! I'm not sure I'd watch their story for a deep narrative. It's boring.

When I think about these critiques, I scratch my head a little. I write off some of it to pure haterade and some to bias. Some people could trip into a well full of money and still complain about the fall.

The rest is perplexing. How would the show be different on another network? How does it even matter? I'm not sure I'd notice if Survivor moved from CBS to NBC. If TLC moved from TLC to Bravo, so? I makes me wonder if it's idle complaining to keep the conversation going or if there's some deeper point that hasn't been made.

For example: I tend to agree the show would have ended without the children and Jen's cancer. So what? They always planned to have children. It wasn't like Madonna stealing African babies to stay relevant. They went on with their life. The timing between Will and Zoe is what it is. No one plans their children perfectly. You accept what life gives you.

So what's the real point of contention with TLC? The manufactured scenarios? That's reality tv. It's like not liking sex on soap opera. That Bill and Jen like attention? Heh, check yourself on that. The kids are on tv without their consent? They were in orphanages without their consent too. You take the good with the bad.

If the grousing is about keep the forum going, its not going to work. The circular conversations are turning away new posters.

[Jellybeans]

I do not care what network they appear on.

I am happy to see them when they are on. They make me smile, laugh and cry. (Jen's cancer) Will be happy to see them again, I know the kids are getting big.

Do not care for Oprah, so OWN can keep their paws off the Kleins.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Jellybeans

[Almost 3000]

Lifetime are doing their own reality shows since they pulled in Project Runway and they also purchase reality reruns and run them continually during the day. Lifetime is a mixed bag lately but they'd probably love having The Little Couple.

[wrestlesflamingos]

How would it be any different? It would be the same show on a different channel.

Here's some food for thought about the posters these conversations are shutting out:

TLC = 45 views per post

That means the thread is opened 45 times for each time someone posts. Lets do a comparison:

TLC = 45 VpP

Other cable reality show: 29 VpP

Popular Network show: 32 VpP

The higher number of 45 suggest most people are viewing this thread to see if it's blown up again or they come with a thought to share and get turned off by the negativity and stale ideas.

Many of the blow ups have been caused by all4mom who has has several aliases since being banned. We try to deal with that and it seems to have blown over. That's an isolated event that influenced the numbers. I'm mentioning it because it's the elephant in the room.

If you want the forum to be busy and lively, you have to leave the door open for other ideas. If you want to continually discuss issues with the show, you can reach each other by PM and discuss that privately.

I'll share that Biz & I get messages from the posters that have been shut out and we appreciate it. We are just as frustrated knowing there's the potential for a healthy discussion but it's not happening. Instead we are stuck in the same place with the same complaints.

[wrestlesflamingos]

Yes, that's true. Since we've had a flurry of reports, we're going to discuss the future of TLC this evening.

[SistaLadybug]

I'm one of those who tends to view this thread rather than post because I'm hoping that new topics are popping up or that there are posters interested in the show and the family who want to have a conversation.  What I find are the same topics over and over again - these folks suck as parents, the children (particularly Will) are suffering and not developing normally, Jen is a bossy bitch, Bill dresses like a slob and isn't employed and on and on.  What turns me away is not that others don't think as positively on the Arnold-Kleins as I do - it's that those opinions aren't just stated and then the conversation allowed to move on.  If anyone posts a bit of appreciation, that's dashed rather quickly.  "Doesn't Zoey look cute?"  "Yeah, but why isn't Will in the picture?  Probably because Jen doesn't love him, poor little thumb-sucking thing that he is."  It's all so very "Who will think of THE CHILDREN????" that I can't deal.

 

I come to Previously for lighthearted snark.  It's fun and most of it that I've seen across the boards isn't mean-spirited.  This one is a different story.  You don't have to like the Arnold-Klein family but I think there is a way to discuss concerns without malice.  And for those of us who do like them, I think there is a way to say so without being overly saccharine and without making those with concern seem like ogres.  There should be room here for all of us.

That said, if I'm not part of the solution, I am part of the problem, so I will do my best to add to the conversation in a constructive manner.  Cheers to y'all.

Edited October 28, 2014 by SistaLadybug

[Jellybeans]

I hope I am not part of the problem, I too get tired of all the negative reactions to this show... I do not understand it but hey if I am unknowingly contributing to the problem, please beat me on the head with a broomstick.

I do not mind snark but I do not get why we're discussing why it is not on PBS. Do we discuss why "The Good Wife" is not on ABC? I mean it is what it is.

[BizBuzz]

Here's some food for thought about the posters these conversations are shutting out:

TLC = 45 views per post

That means the thread is opened 45 times for each time someone posts. Lets do a comparison:

TLC = 45 VpP

Other cable reality show: 29 VpP

Popular Network show: 32 VpP

 

For the record, it has been reported by a poster that the information above is proprietary mod only information, and I wanted to clear the air that this is indeed NOT information that only mods can see.  If you go to to the forum page for TLC, you will see this post has 19,506 views and only 435 replies.  If you take the views, divide by the replies, you get the number the WF came up with. 

 

Carry on.

[Steff]

I read here when I see a new post.  9 x's outta 10, it's just something that makes me roll my eyes & I have to not comment because I know it would make me part of the problem.  I still think that if you really dislike the show, the network, the people, and the situations so damn much, it's very easy to change the channel.  It can be done, I've stopped watching all the Housewives shows & I'd watch golf before I'll watch anything Kate Gosselin does.   I don't see just "snark" here when it comes to this couple.  It feels like something extra negative and just too much bitching in general. 

 

I also figure once the show is back on, the posts will increase & there can be fun snark, appreciation & probably unreasonable hate again. 

[ZoloftBlob]

They don't show any reality programs. I would not be happy with tax dollars paying for a reality show and that's the P of PBS.

 

Its just not a format that exists on PBS.  Yes, I know they did the Loud Family back in the day but that was a different kettle of fish.

 

Today. 9:06 am

 

I too question what the Kleins are doing more than what the viewers are watching.  I wonder what the links to these other networks off the home page of TLC mean? Is there some percentage of shared ownership, any tv people out there in the know?  If you scroll down to the bottom of the page to OUR SITES.

 

TLC is a subsidary of Discover - so TLC is related to OWN is related to Animal PLanet is related to Discovery Health and sundary other channels.

[Meredith Quill]

PLEASE READ.

The most likely return of this show is in March next year. Going forward, the TLC mods will no longer seed or steer any threads and any hate speech will be edited out of posts without warning. If you find yourself repeatedly getting frustrated with another poster, please make use of the ignore function. As always you are also free to use the report button for any problems. Your moderators aren’t here to referee table manners, they are here to ensure each forum is a place where everybody feels free to post their opinion without fear of attack or ridicule. If you are incapable of adhering to these simple guidelines, you will be shown the size nine’s.

 

Thank you.

[Fostersmom]

Lifetime are doing their own reality shows since they pulled in Project Runway and they also purchase reality reruns and run them continually during the day. Lifetime is a mixed bag lately but they'd probably love having The Little Couple.

 

Yeah, but are their shows any better than TLC's? Abby and her many abusive dance shows, or spin offs of her abusive dance shows, and their versions of the Real Housewives of a city with their Little Women of LA or whatever it was called and the Black Women of Kansas City or some such. In that respect, I'd have to grudgingly say TLC might possibly be better than Lifetime. If people want to see truly exploited kids, watch Dance Moms. It was bad enough when Kate would scream at her own kids, but those moms let their kids be screamed at by Abby for a dollar. At least the majority of the kids on TLC aren't half dressed, shaking their assess, all while getting screamed at. Personally I'd rather see Will and Zoe or the Duggar kids go on staged field trip kind of events where they might have some fun before I'd want to watch Abby give kids nervous breakdowns while their mothers sit around talking about what a bitch Abby is. 

[Almost 3000]

Yeah, but are their shows any better than TLC's? Abby and her many abusive dance shows, or spin offs of her abusive dance shows, and their versions of the Real Housewives of a city with their Little Women of LA or whatever it was called and the Black Women of Kansas City or some such. In that respect, I'd have to grudgingly say TLC might possibly be better than Lifetime. If people want to see truly exploited kids, watch Dance Moms. It was bad enough when Kate would scream at her own kids, but those moms let their kids be screamed at by Abby for a dollar. At least the majority of the kids on TLC aren't half dressed, shaking their assess, all while getting screamed at. Personally I'd rather see Will and Zoe or the Duggar kids go on staged field trip kind of events where they might have some fun before I'd want to watch Abby give kids nervous breakdowns while their mothers sit around talking about what a bitch Abby is. 

This is a perfect example of what's happening in this thread. Someone asked what other channel might feature a show like The Little Couple. I was just answering someone's question with an innocuous comment but wrestlesflamingos and Fostersmom slapped my comment down. Normally I wouldn't care but gosh its contentious in here in a way I don't find in other threads. I'll go back to lurking now and hope people still post cute kid pixs and updates for those of us that appreciate them.

[Ipse Dixit]

BizBuzz, IIRC (and I might not), first reality show I ever heard of decades ago was on PBS. It Chronicled the lives of the family named Loud. One of the sons had a rock band and tried to capitalize on the show – – his band was called Loud – –and again if I remember correctly, one of the sons came out as gay on TV, which was quite traumatic. I mean, this was like the 1970s. Early 1970s. Just some info there.

Editing to say that I was reading backwards and see that Zoloftblob already mentioned the Louds. My bad!

Edited October 29, 2014 by Ipse Dixit

[Fostersmom]

This is a perfect example of what's happening in this thread. Someone asked what other channel might feature a show like The Little Couple. I was just answering someone's question with an innocuous comment but wrestlesflamingos and Fostersmom slapped my comment down. Normally I wouldn't care but gosh its contentious in here in a way I don't find in other threads. I'll go back to lurking now and hope people still post cute kid pixs and updates for those of us that appreciate them.

 

I certainly didn't mean to slap your comment down. I'm sorry if my response came off that way. My point was, as far as I see it, a reality show is a reality show is a reality show, no matter what network it's on. TLC, Lifetime, OWN, E!, they all really stage their shows the same way. I'd say even PBS did it when they used to do those 1900's house, Frontier House kinds of shows. I remember people being upset with some of the seasons when you'd see things being done that obviously would have been forbidden, if not illegal, in the historical time period. 

[wrestlesflamingos]

It wasn't my intention either, my bad.

[Almost 3000]

No problem, I actually understood where you where coming from Fostersmom it was just an example of how this thread brings out such strong opinions that often come across as very black and white. I also find very little humor here.

eta: No problem here either wrestlesflamingos I was really just trying to point out the tone of the thread and how quickly posters jump on one another...

Edited October 29, 2014 by Almost 3000

[ZoloftBlob]

In fairness I think that happens all around.

 

I don't like the kids being on tv because I have watched too many tlc families crash and burn. That said, I don't think every photo posted of Zoey is Jen manically hating on Will, openly showing her preference, and I don't think every photo of Will is Jen intentionally drawing attention to Will's delays and I am tired of arguments where if she's not posting photos of a child, it's because she's evil, and if she is posting of a child, its because she's evil.

 

You know what? Bill is married to the evil vixen and hasn't walked away and hasn't done a thing to separate himself and the children from the evil. He's supposed to be the good one. Why isn't he accountable?

 

My basic objection to this show is that small children aren't protected by TLC and jesus Christ the honeybooboo debacle pretty much proves you have to be a convicted child molestor to get a rise out of the TLC lawyers. That said, Jen and Bill seem like nice people who may have gotten in over their heads.

[walnutqueen]

On Topic :  http://www.inquisitr.com/1565564/the-little-couple-updates-and-tidbits-what-are-jen-bill-will-and-zoey-up-to-lately/

 

Slightly Off Topic (but since you brought it up):  I've participated in this forum from the beginning, and it feels like deja vu all over again.  The same old ground gets stomped on, the same old toes get stepped on.  The dark days of trolls under bridges here taught me valuable lessons in restraint and finding the humor in my own overly righteous indignation.  When a TV show is on hiatus, I usually don't have much to discuss (well, unless it's The Walking Dead, or my TV obsession de jour), and I don't see the need to keep the forum active (i.e. strirrin' up the shit).  Because it never ends well.  ;-)

 

 

Another thing this forum taught me (in Walter White's words) is to TREAD LIGHTLY.   :-D

[jodo]

I've participated in this forum from the beginning, and it feels like deja vu all over again.  The same old ground gets stomped on, the same old toes get stepped on.  

 

Another consideration is there are new posters joining the board all the time and the discussion topics are new to them.  And I am pretty sure PTV does not ask a new poster to read the last 15 pages of posts before posting to avoid covering the topic again.  

[Absolom]

Regarding Bill taking several days to get released, did he possibly require rehab after the surgery or since he was in NY that they kept him longer than someone who lived locally?

[BizBuzz]

Another consideration is there are new posters joining the board all the time and the discussion topics are new to them.  And I am pretty sure PTV does not ask a new poster to read the last 15 pages of posts before posting to avoid covering the topic again.  

 

You are correct, PTV does not have the 15 page rule.  However, since there are a bulk of mods that have been here since the beginning as well, we are all very familiar with conversations that have been discussed before and can politely warn the new poster that this discussion does not need to be brought up again. 

 

That is just one of the downfalls of being late to a party that you are not the host of.

[wrestlesflamingos]

I think there's a small misunderstanding. The show's hiatus has been mentioned to imply that new material or discussion points are less likely. There's no harm in posting between seasons.

[BizBuzz]

I honestly don't want to start trouble. I would be happy if this forum was lively and fun like other forums on this site. However, I think that I should say that commenting on a show in hiatus is not "stirrin up the shit". There are forums on this site where the show has been off the air for years. Commenting in these forums is not considered a bad thing.

 

And to be fair, that is one person's perspective, which just like yours, they are entitled to it.  And to be clear, the poster you mentioned felt that THEY didn't feel the need to add to a show that was on hiatus, not that ANYONE had to stop doing it.

 

I totally get that cyber-writing is a form of communication that is difficult to grasp the meanings at times, but sometimes a careful look at the way someone words a comment and trying to get their perspective would help in being able to add to the discussion in a non-combative way.  That goes for ALL of us, not signaling out anyone.

[walnutqueen]

Thanks, BizBuzz.  I thought it was clear I was talking about myself (don't I always!).

 

This poster doesn't follow any social media or other gossip/spoiler/celeb stuff, so when a show like this isn't airing, I personally don't have much to discuss.  So me, myself & I would  be "stirrin' up the shit" before you could say "potty training".   That's all I meant.   .   :-)  

[starfire]

It would be nice if there was more talk about the show and less talk about people being offended, what people think others should discuss, and so on. All of those posts are off topic.  It seems that after the mods make an official decision and post it, people could just move on and send any comments they feel need to be said about it to a mod in a private message.

 

There are very few people who post what I would consider highly negative things. If a person has a real problem with those people, instead of whining and getting your knickers in a knot over it, just put those people on ignore and save yourself the grief of reading it (and save others the grief of having to read any complaints about them). Personally I would rather read someone's "negative" view of the show than comments whining about how someone is offended, staying away because of the meanies, and so on. I truly hope the mods nip all the off-topic complaining in the bud. The ignore feature is there, as is the report button.

[starfire]

They could just decide that if there isn't a tasteful, educational outlet to tell their story, then they just won't tell it.

This is the bottom line. I don't think the channel really matters all that much. If a family chooses long-term exploitation of their lives, including their children lives, on reality TV there are consequences to that and a price to pay. I have always been puzzled that Jen, as a prominent children's doctor, is okay with being affiliated with a network know for trashy reality shows and the exploitation of children....and that she is okay in general to have her kids exploited on an ongoing reality show on TLC or anywhere. Just goes to show that even a professional who should know better can choose money and fame over the best interests of their children. 

[joanofarch4]

I agree with Starfire.  All conversation should be about the show or the family and not about other posters and their feelings about posts.  There should be room for everyone, including those who aren't fans, without labels such as "trolls" or even "negative" being attributed.  As for the channel, "if you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas."  Bill and Jen are smart enough to know what they've gotten themselves into, so they must approve of sleazy TLC...

Edited October 30, 2014 by joanofarch4

[toodles]

I love the little couple. Are they perfect? No. But neither am I. I've been watching the reruns lately. They went through a lot to become parents. I guess you could argue all day long as to whether the kids should be on tv. But those kids are much loved and wanted and I like to watch this show.