S03.E09: All the Bells Say

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Lassus said:

I mean, it's also drama and fiction.  I'm not entirely convinced "It could have happened whenever he wanted and he already knew about it and it wasn't a thing and..." is what they were going for when all this was written and filmed.

To me it seems like while there's no way to get around that he could talk to Caroline later, there's no reason to think he was already working on her about it b/c as always he figured he'd just talk the kids into it like he always had before. He even tried to do that when he knew Caroline had agreed. The kids didn't think to talk to Caroline because why would they? Their position was already there in the agreement.

But it doesn't really matter, because, like you said, it's about the drama. That the kids don't even get the satisfaction of seeing him angry before he has to call up Caroline and ask her about the deal. He's cut them off at the knees before they got there, making them look like impotent children once again, and that was because of Tom, not because Logan had already predicted they would be doing this.

[cardigirl]

On 12/15/2021 at 11:24 AM, Dminches said:

Do you not think Tom was the one who alerted Logan to the fact that the 4 kids were meeting and thus resulted in Logan sending doughnuts?  

 

When the doughnuts arrived, I just thought that Logan knows his children so well, he would know without a doubt where they all were. That was his reminder that he sees them all and all the time. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by cardigirl

[Luckylyn]

On 12/12/2021 at 10:34 PM, dmc said:

He asked her what about him all season and she was like shrug...I don't care...

and he was like ok...I will look out for me and eff you

 

Exactly 

 

[lidarose9]

On 12/21/2021 at 6:03 AM, cardigirl said:

When the doughnuts arrived, I just thought that Logan knows his children so well, he would know without a doubt where they all were. That was his reminder that he sees them all and all the time. 

If I recall correctly, they all quailed for a moment when they saw the donuts and said, "Don't eat them," like maybe they were poisoned or bugged or wha. Then when Logan made Ken's son eat the pasta, same deal, checking to see if the food was drugged. You can't help thinking about the Borgias. Like the Trojan Horse showing up and amounting to nothing. All the references to emperors and royalty and titles. They go to Europe when they need to class up the joint, to borrow the gravity of the past, beauty, history, etc. It's all about appearances, positioning, image. It's like they bought the right wristwatches and leased the right locations and learned the behaviors and talk the right talk, but have nothing of substance behind it, just money. Just like Royco/Waystar.

Edited December 27, 2021 by lidarose9

[Milburn Stone]

On 12/27/2021 at 1:57 PM, lidarose9 said:

If I recall correctly, they all quailed for a moment when they saw the donuts and said, "Don't eat them," like maybe they were poisoned or bugged or wha.

Roman: I'm 98% sure the donuts aren't poisoned.

One of the all-time great lines in television history.

[SailorGirl]

On 12/13/2021 at 12:19 AM, HC87 said:

Shiv looked really fat this episode....just sayin' 

Roman looked really slimy this episode . . . just sayin'

Kendall looked really bald this episode . . . just sayin'

Logan looked really old this episode . . . just sayin'

Tom looked really blond this episode . . . just sayin'

Greg looked really tall this episode . . . just sayin'

So she wasn't wearing the most flattering dress that showed she wasn't a waif thin, stomach flat-as-a-board, completely unrealistic image of what some people think a woman should look like versus a real, live, living, breathing, intelligent actor. Whoop-di-friggin'-do. . .  how are we STILL here??? 

Edited January 1, 2022 by SailorGirl

[cardigirl]

On 12/27/2021 at 2:57 PM, lidarose9 said:

If I recall correctly, they all quailed for a moment when they saw the donuts and said, "Don't eat them," like maybe they were poisoned or bugged or wha. Then when Logan made Ken's son eat the pasta, same deal, checking to see if the food was drugged. You can't help thinking about the Borgias. Like the Trojan Horse showing up and amounting to nothing. All the references to emperors and royalty and titles. They go to Europe when they need to class up the joint, to borrow the gravity of the past, beauty, history, etc. It's all about appearances, positioning, image. It's like they bought the right wristwatches and leased the right locations and learned the behaviors and talk the right talk, but have nothing of substance behind it, just money. Just like Royco/Waystar.

At the time I made that post, people were discussing how long Tom may have been giving information to Logan. My point was that I felt Logan didn't need help tracking them down. When first Shiv did not return and then Roman disappeared, he knew where they all were. The doughnuts were a message that he knew they were together. 
The later scene, with Logan asking his grandson to test his food, was shocking in that Kendall didn't tell his son he didn't have to do it. He just watched it all happen. And Logan knew if the food was poisoned, Kendall would stop his son (hopefully). I don't think Logan ever really thought the food was poisoned. 
  

On 12/29/2021 at 8:01 PM, Milburn Stone said:

Roman: I'm 98% sure the donuts aren't poisoned.

One of the all-time great lines in television history.

Love this line! 

Edited January 1, 2022 by cardigirl

[jrzy]

On 12/13/2021 at 10:15 PM, MizLottie said:

Call me horrible but I found this to be the funniest line of the night.

I thought it was completly in character for Roman,  I thought Shiv's reply was funny too,  he asked her hadn't she also killed someone and she said yeah?  

On 12/12/2021 at 11:19 PM, HC87 said:

Shiv looked really fat this episode....just sayin' 

Really?  That's all you go out of this episode?

[Macbeth]

I really loved this finale to S3.  I love Tom and Gregs's dynamic.  Assuring him that he can have his own Gregs to torture.

I agree that Logan, even if he had been so focused on the buyout, had not attented to undermining his kids' power to use their majority to sink the deal - could have been easily dealt with on his end given Caroline's willingness to play.  All he had to do, did do, was ensure that her new groom gets a title.

My only problem with it - that Logan, when he was young and top of things - ever agreed to a divorce agreement, that gave his children so much power to begin with.  

But this show is so good I can hand wave over that plot point.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Macbeth

[chaifan]

I know I'm sort of late to the game here, but wanted to chime in...

My take on Logan's deal with Caroline is that that was in the works before the kids even knew about the sale to Mattson.  We know Logan was working on the sale the afternoon before the wedding.  He dismisses Roman from his meeting with Mattson.  The next morning, as everyone is heading to the wedding, he's in his war room, there's lots of activity going on, Marcia says she'll "send his regrets" and gives her the "shh, it's a secret" finger to the lips.  She smiles and nods and attends the wedding & reception.  Prior to the reception, Shiv confirms that Caroline's lawyers have renegotiated the divorce agreement and she's getting the London flat.  At the reception we find out Mattson's investors have arrived in Italy, as has Logan's people. 

So, it's clear Logan was working this deal on his own, without the kids, for almost a day.  The only reason he'd be keeping them out of the loop through this entire deal is because he knew he was cutting them out, that they would never agree to it, and he already knew he didn't need them for the deal to go through.  So he had to have been negotiating with Carolyn prior to the morning of the wedding, and the changes to the divorce agreement were in place - or at least agreed to - by the time the wedding was happening.  It just doesn't make sense for Logan to be doing this deal alone if he didn't already know he wasn't going to need the kids' votes.

Now, what did Tom tip Logan off to?  The fact that the kids were on their way?  Their super secret plan, and that they are now a united front?  Doesn't really matter if Logan already had a plan in place though - if Tom snitched to him he'd still get loyalty points. 

I find it interesting that Gerri wasn't in on it.  But somehow she figured out to get to Logan before the kids did.  I'm guessing Kerry told her, as Kerry was also in the room when they got there so they must have gone over there together, leaving while Shiv, Roman and Kendall were having their reunion in the trash area.

Final note:  earlier in the season I was soooo confused with the talk about GoJo.  I even had to replay with the captions on to make sure they were saying "GoJo".  Because GoJo is a real company - they make Purell.  And I was all, why are they partnering with Purell???  Then I googled it and found that they have their own GoJo.  OK, now it makes sense...

[AuntieDiane6]

On 1/2/2022 at 5:56 PM, jrzy said:

Shiv looked really fat this episode....just sayin' 

I suspect Sara Snook is undergoing fertility treatments. 
 

She’s 34 and just got married last year. You need to bulk up to harvest those eggs…

[CharlizeCat]

My only concern about SS's appearance this episode was how pink/sunburned she was getting. I have fair skin like she does and was cringing during those outdoor scenes. I am hoping a lot of that was makeup and all of them were wearing sunscreen. 

I thought she looked great. Who cares IF she put on a few pounds during the pandemic? Who didn't? "Just sayin'."

[Dobian]

I have to admit, I'm Team Tom/Greg, and cheered for them after Tom's masterful chess move at the end.

[Artsda]

Shiv looked great.  

I loved the siblings uniting for Kendall and against Logan. The we all killed someone part was so funny, really liked Roman trying to make him feel better.  Which returned in the end where you see Kendall supporting Roman after the love rant from Logan. 

Their mother is the worst, sold them all out for her pathetic social climbing probably gold digging new husband who rather Logan be there than get married.  He's only interested in what Logan could give him and property in London. Yet she chooses him over her kids. 

Oh Tom, you got Logan but probably lost your wife.  She sees through you and won't trust now. So Tom played his card and probably won't get anymore info. 

 

 

[RedDelicious]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:59 AM, SailorGirl said:

So she wasn't wearing the most flattering dress that showed she wasn't a waif thin, stomach flat-as-a-board, completely unrealistic image of what some people think a woman should look like versus a real, live, living, breathing, intelligent actor. Whoop-di-friggin'-do. . .  how are we STILL here???

I think the issue is the wardrobe department could do a hell of a lot better dressing her. For me it's not so much that she gained weight, but that they're putting her in such awful, ill-fitting clothes. She's the lead female character and they need better outfits. The thought crossed my mind that the ill-fitting clothes are purposeful, to convey a sense of discomfort, exposure and decreasing confidence, but it seems unfair when the rest of the predominantly male cast isn't subjected to the same. Except for Greg in the beginning, but he was green (literally) and fresh out of college.

[nameless slob]

On 9/1/2022 at 11:43 PM, chaifan said:

It just doesn't make sense for Logan to be doing this deal alone if he didn't already know he wasn't going to need the kids' votes.

Exactly, I believe he was already plotting not needing the kids's votes for the deal.

Hence asking Roman to leave the meeting.

He sees them for who they are, a power hungry selfish, narcisistic, and incompetent bunch who want to keep the toy they didin't build and don't even know how it works.

I like it. As much as Logan is awful, I hate the kids more, they think they are entitled to anything and everything and they do not do the work.

Logan build it all, an immigrant who worked his way up to being the worst person ever. 

I feel zero sympathy for the children and I hope they crash and burn with only their 5 millions which is "not barely enough for retirement", as one of them said once.

P.s.: should form fitting clothes be only allowed in woman whose forms are "barely there", therefore not making a "spectable" for the eyes?

I think some comments here are mysogynist, showing what is their own disconfort with a woman's form.

Shiobhan dresses amazing and very aproppriable to each occasion, and the actress has a beautiful body, lovely to see.

 

On 12/30/2021 at 11:59 AM, SailorGirl said:

how are we STILL here??? 

Exactly!!!

Disgusting mysogynist comments. 

People who say those things can't grasp that it says everything about their prejudices and nothing else.

[aghst]

Just finished rewatching the season.

Just brutal, their mother and Tom sell them out.  Caroline in particular to make her new husband, who wanted something from Logan, happy.

I guess Tom really believed that he's never seen Logan lose so he would never side against him.

Logan isn't long for the world so he'd be adding billions to the billions he already has.

What would he do, deny his children and grandchildren their inheritance out of spite?

Who else is he going to give it to, Kerry and their spawn.

It's hard to decipher these men in their late 70s and 80s still working deals.  There are many of them in real life, they're great grandfathers but they work, not really doing anything productive but more threatening board takeovers and forcing companies to give them billions to go away.

Also interesting about how they needed to take over Gojo, which ends up being more valuable than Waystar -- by the way, that still doesn't mean they couldn't go ahead with the original deal, smaller companies have made big acquisitions of bigger companies before.  I believe Discovery was worth less and had fewer subscribers than HBO Max and they took it all over, WB, CNN, HBO, etc.

But the thing is, HBO Max was hemorrhaging money and so are other streamers.  Many of them have signed up over 100 million subscribers but they're either making a modest profit like Netflix or losing money.

So streaming was hot in 2020 and 2021, not as hot since late 2022.  GoJo is flavor of the month or it should be revealed in a year or so.  Lukas is loosely based on the Swedish founder of Spotify, which hasn't exploded -- it's the biggest music subscription network but doesn't mean it's rich, doesn't have video content so it overpays for things like Joe Rogan.

 

Logan is gaslighting Roman and Shiv when he each tells them that Lukas "rates" them, like he'd give them prominent positions.  Lukas had only said in Chiantishire episode that he'd give them a real chance to apply for these high level posts.

Yeah just like it's strange that Logan is looking to expand his empire at this late stage in life, why aren't the kids looking to take their big share, be in Logan's good graces to get their inheritance and pursue real passions.

I can see one or two of them really wanting to prove their mettle by being Logan's successor -- daddy loved me best -- but not all 3.  In real life, children of billionaires don't all try to take over the mantle, some of them go do their own thing, as Conor has for the most part and Naomi would be another example.  Some are advocates for social justice as they feel some measure of guilt.

Shiv expresses distaste at how ATN operates, how they cozied up to Mencken, a white nationalist type, to promote him for presidency.  She tells herself if she were in charge, she'd change it -- and Tom pretends to be sympathetic.

Yet if she had the power, she'd quickly realize that the wealth from ATN based on the branding and business model Logan chose, would be the best way to maximize profits.

How much money and power do they want?  Well they are all pursuing the top job.  They don't have any money worries.  Roman was going to throw a million dollars here or there, like the kid in the pilot or the guy with the tattoo.

They commiserate that Conor had to take a "scheduled" flight or commercial to return from Italy to NY.  Or they reference private chefs, like they won't eat restaurant food.  Tom was obsessing about prison food and toilet wine.

But even if they get kicked out of the company and the family as Logan threatened to do at the end of season 3, their equity shares are worth at least a couple of billions -- supposedly what Logan offered Kendall and then revoked.

They'd always be able to afford private chefs and PJ or private jets.