S03.E08: Episode 8

[paulvdb]

Quote

As a new day dawns, Moordale's fate hangs in the balance. Aimee spills. Eric confesses. Otis haunts the hospital. Honesty matters now, more than ever.

 

[Aulty]

I just finished Sally Rooney's new book this morning, quite exhausted with people mis- or non-cummunicating. And then I started season 3 of SE ...
They crammed a lot of story and characters into the show this year. In general that was a good idea to stretch out the Otis and Maeve thing, but I felt it diluted the essence of the show a bit. And that some things could've used more time - like the story about Orla and her mum, Maureen (who is suddenly Jean's BFF) and Michael or Hope and the connection between her professional and personal trouble, the chest binding in the last episode almost got lost.

I am really annoyed how they again ended the season making sure Maeve and Otis can't be together. Not even going into how riddiculous the timeline for US stuy programme application, acceptance and leaving was. Was there any mention how long she is going to be away?

And Jean finds out that her baby daddy isn't Jakob? Is it Otis' dad?

Damn Viv. Not only is she herself really stunning this season, her medieval sexting BF is HOT.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Aulty

[pootlus]

15 hours ago, Aulty said:

And Jean finds out that her baby daddy isn't Jakob? Is it Otis' dad?

I assume it's either Remi or the motorcycle dude, but Jean did say she'd had a lot of sex.

The Otis and Maeve get together only for her to disappear to the US was unfortunately blindingly obvious from when the US scholarship was mentioned.  They are cute together but I'm just not sure I care enough about them much any more.  The platonic relationships in this show are much better done, such as Aimee/Maeve, Adam/Emily (Ms Sands), and especially Otis/Eric.

This season seemed a lot more 'hammered home' with the messages.  Hope is a bitch because she wants a baby and can't have one, she's also racist, authoritarian, and queer-phobic.  Goodness.  A little three-dimensionality please.

15 hours ago, Aulty said:

Damn Viv. Not only is she herself really stunning this season, her medieval sexting BF is HOT.

I know!  I cheered when she showed up with Eugene at school.  Damn, girl!  He makes Jackson look ordinary and that is saying something.

[possibilities]

Closing the school sure seemed like a way to end the show for good. Do we have confirmation that this is the last season?

[Aulty]

21 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Closing the school sure seemed like a way to end the show for good. Do we have confirmation that this is the last season?

No, but we haven't gotten anything re a renewal either. I don't think the show will get cancelled though, it's really popular with both the audience and the critics. It's a bit annoying that they aren't back on set yet though because if the go back to their January release slot January 17th 2023 is a looooong wait.

[Danny Franks]

There will probably be a season four, but I wouldn't be that bothered if there wasn't. The whole season was disappointing in a lot of ways - badly structured with character motivations that only made sense when you realise that they were all just written to fit whatever storylines the writers wanted to use.

Examples -

Maeve finding out Isaac betrayed her trust and ruined her chances with Otis, but she forgives him a couple of days later and happily embarks on a relationship.

Isaac suddenly being the noble, 'if I'm not your first choice, I don't want this' hero, after his entire mindset being established as 'take what you can, because no one is going to give you anything.'

Ruby suddenly feeling secure enough to say she loves Otis, when just a day before she wouldn't even let him see her house. 

People apparently thinking a 48-year old woman would devise a 'get pregnant to trap a man' plot.

I really disliked the 'cliffhanger' this season because, just like last season, it simply wasn't believable. Maeve gets money at the last minute to pay for an academic trip and suddenly she's got a flight booked for the next day? That's not how things work. Then she makes no effort to go and see the boy she finally got together with until she's actually on her way to the airport.

Somehow I've ended up liking Adam way more than I like Eric, and Ruby more than I like Maeve. I never would have predicted that, and I don't think the writers intended for it to happen.

[possibilities]

I was actually sad that Aimee concluded she didn't want to be with Steve. Was it not about the assault at all, and she just didn't like Steve? He seemed like a great guy. I get that sometimes you're just not into someone and there's no particular reason, and also that kids that age are more likely to have churn in their relationships than be looking to settle down. But I liked Steve.

[Zonk]

I used to be invested in the Maeve-Otis ship, but the writers just completely killed that with the season 2 finale. Now I couldn't care less.

On 9/17/2021 at 4:28 PM, Aulty said:

Was there any mention how long she is going to be away?

I could be wrong, but I think they said half a year. So she should be back by the end of the first episode of season 4.

4 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Maeve finding out Isaac betrayed her trust and ruined her chances with Otis, but she forgives him a couple of days later and happily embarks on a relationship.

Yes, but that started last season. The girl who doesn't trust anybody (which she reiterated when Isaac told her that he had deleted the voice mail) doesn't have a passcode on her phone. Ridiculous.

4 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Somehow I've ended up liking Adam way more than I like Eric,

I'm so over Eric. So his boyfriend isn't quite there with the being out and proud yet and Eric "needs to fly". Great. What does he do? Does he tell Adam that it's important to him, that he needs to be able to express himself freely and that Adam needs to make an effort? Nope, first thing that comes into his mind: breakup. Makes me think he never loved Adam at all.

Especially since the "freedom" he felt was in an underground gay club in a country where being gay is illegal. Adam didn't like the idea of getting dressed up, putting on makeup and going to a gay club, but why should he have to for Eric to be able to "fly"? Why can't Adam just go as himself? The guy Eric kissed in Lagos wasn't in makeup. Eric never even brought up that option. No, straight to breakup!

I hope Adam finds a nice guy (not that snooty french poop flinger, they are clearly setting up as a love interest [No! Bad writers! Stop it!]), Eric realises that he made a huge mistake and that one night of adrenalin fuled excess isn't the norm when you are going dancing, then comes crawling back only for Adam to rebuff him.

[Aulty]

On 9/17/2021 at 4:28 PM, Aulty said:

Not even going into how riddiculous the timeline for US stuy programme application, acceptance and leaving was. Was there any mention how long she is going to be away?

 

9 hours ago, Zonk said:

I could be wrong, but I think they said half a year. So she should be back by the end of the first episode of season 4.

I rewatched it (for some reason I skipped one episode the first time round, haha) and they mention its a couple of months.
Its such a lame thing, storywise. I know they live in a fantasy world, but its weird that Maeve hops off to the US during what in the UK is crunch time for university application, especially Oxbridge where you are also expected to attend in person interviews. If they have her come back with some American boyfriend and an ambition to get into the Ivy League, I'm gonna boke.
I know that its often challenging to write stuff once the main couple is together, but surely there is some meat in a Maeve/Otis relationship - they are both a heap of personal insecurities behind a sex expert front.
Over the three seasons we've moved from discovering sexuality to sexual relationships and what happens when the honeymoon phase ends. They can revisit all this via Meave and Otis while moving other characters forward. Plus, they are in their final year, there are only so many more seasons in this show.

 

[Danny Franks]

5 hours ago, Aulty said:

If they have her come back with some American boyfriend and an ambition to get into the Ivy League, I'm gonna boke.

The fact that they had her backtrack on what had happened with Otis and say "let's see where we are when I get back" suggests that the writers have left the door open to give her an American fling. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did, and said fling followed her back to the UK on some kind of study abroad programme of their own.

5 hours ago, Aulty said:

I know that its often challenging to write stuff once the main couple is together, but surely there is some meat in a Maeve/Otis relationship - they are both a heap of personal insecurities behind a sex expert front.

I will never, ever have any sympathy for writers who don't want to put their main couple together because they're scared people will lose interest. Just keep telling interesting stories, keep developing the characters but do it within the relationship. It's not that hard.

It's also a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the more energy the writers devote into inventing obstacles to keep the pair apart, the more story ideas they burn through and the more they get themselves into the mindset that they can only put the characters together as a last resort. It's no surprise that Otis and Maeve felt so dull this season, because the writers stripped everything light and fun from their relationship just to keep the 'will they, won't they' dynamic intact.

And if you've sold the idea of your show with a big 'will they, won't they' pairing as the hook, trying to then claim that the show isn't all about that pairing and there are other storylines to focus on is disingenuous at best. Sadly, it happens far too often in television writing. 

 

[possibilities]

Can anyone explain the UK educational system to me? Was Mooredale a private school? Was Maeve on scholarship? How about Eric? I don't really understand why they are closing-- they lost investors, but I had thought they were a public entity, since it seemed like all the students were in walking distance. Also, does the UK have any rules at all about what kind of discipline is legal (humiliation signs??) and about things like mandatory standards for sex ed or dress codes or how racist and gender policing the admin is allowed to be? 

I'm also a bit confused why Maureen (Adam's mother) is so free and open in her own life but doesn't talk to her son AT ALL, even when she sees he's struggling. 

I mean, I know the answer to everything is "because plot contrivance" but it made me wonder a bit.

---

One thing I noticed about this season was that they were setting up situations where most of the time I saw each character's point of view, rather than having it be as heavily weighted towards a right and wrong party. It made my reactions to things more complex than in the past. Except for Hope, who was a straight up villain. Her introduction as the Cool Principal seemed like a different person than who she was after that hello assembly. I almost wondered if they decided to change direction for her, as I honestly didn't think it added up.

[Danny Franks]

Just now, possibilities said:

Can anyone explain the UK educational system to me? Was Mooredale a private school? Was Maeve on scholarship? How about Eric?

Moordale is a state school, as far as I can tell. Free to attend for anyone who falls within the school's catchment area. There's no other way Maeve could afford to attend.

Just now, possibilities said:

I don't really understand why they are closing-- they lost investors, but I had thought they were a public entity, since it seemed like all the students were in walking distance. Also, does the UK have any rules at all about what kind of discipline is legal (humiliation signs??) and about things like mandatory standards for sex ed or dress codes or how racist and gender policing the admin is allowed to be? 

Yeah, it wouldn't close unless there was another school to send the kids to. The school will fall under the remit of the local authorities and they're not going to deprive children of an education. I think it's just a case of the show playing very fast and loose with things like realism and logic. Especially the humiliation signs, which would absolutely not be allowed and would be grounds for a teacher to be sacked.

The headteacher also doesn't get to decide what's taught in their school, they have to follow the national curriculum. But this is a sixth form college, because children leave high school at 16 and go on to higher education at sixth form for two years, where they take A-levels that qualify them to apply for university courses. So really, all the kids would have chosen what they want to study - I took Law, English Literature and Ancient History - and would not be taking mandatory sex education lessons anyway.

This is just about the way the writer has mashed up American high school tropes with a British setting. It can't make sense, because the two systems are too different.

 

[Pallida]

19 hours ago, possibilities said:

I was actually sad that Aimee concluded she didn't want to be with Steve. Was it not about the assault at all, and she just didn't like Steve? He seemed like a great guy. I get that sometimes you're just not into someone and there's no particular reason, and also that kids that age are more likely to have churn in their relationships than be looking to settle down. But I liked Steve.

I’m hoping that Aimee was accepting that she needed to work through her assault and her need to please regardless of personal consequences, and that she knew that a relationship would make that extra challenging. 

[Ms.Lulu]

This was a disappointing season finale for me.  

I like Adam better than Eric.  That said, I just want Adam and Rahim to be good friends.  I hope the writers don't put them together,

I like Ruby better than Maeve.  More depth was written for Ruby, and more vulnerability. 

I like the new characters, though.

After solid A seasons this one feels like a B-.

I hope the final season finishes with the same energy as the first.

 

[possibilities]

2 hours ago, Pallida said:

I’m hoping that Aimee was accepting that she needed to work through her assault and her need to please regardless of personal consequences, and that she knew that a relationship would make that extra challenging. 

I like that explanation. 

[killer.noona]

I was never an Otis/Maeve fan. I don't think the show would have missed anything by having them just be friends and the voice of reason whenever the other one fucked up, which is all the time. I really wanted to see where the Ruby relationship could have gone.

So Jakob is apparent Not The Father. Yikes. I hope they don't do that thing where he says he'll raise the baby. Poor Ola.

I'm glad that Eric and Adam broke up. Their whole history was toxic. Maybe next season we'll see some movement in the relationship between Adam and his dad.

[possibilities]

I wonder if they are going to say the reason Jean was confused about paternity is that her cycles are erratic due to her age. But you'd think Jean of all people would be better at figuring this out. She knew that Jakob had a vasectomy, so she should have been asking a lot more questions and not making sloppy, careless assumptions. They've really done nothing to make this storyline make sense and it's making Jean look either criminally careless or unrealistically stupid.

[Danny Franks]

35 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I wonder if they are going to say the reason Jean was confused about paternity is that her cycles are erratic due to her age. But you'd think Jean of all people would be better at figuring this out. She knew that Jakob had a vasectomy, so she should have been asking a lot more questions and not making sloppy, careless assumptions. They've really done nothing to make this storyline make sense and it's making Jean look either criminally careless or unrealistically stupid.

It's just more needless drama (maybe melodrama would be more accurate), especially in light of both Jakob and Ola asking 'did you connive to get pregnant just to trap a man?' Of course Jean said no, of course Jean said she didn't sleep with Remi, of course Jean dismissed the younger men, just so it can all come back to cause angst and uproar in season four. 

I don't even care about Jean as a character, because she really hasn't developed at all since the first season, but I do like Jakob now, and his scenes with Otis and Ola while Jean was in the hospital were really nice. The guy deserves happiness, not more heartbreak

[Zonk]

On 9/19/2021 at 8:50 PM, possibilities said:

Except for Hope, who was a straight up villain. Her introduction as the Cool Principal seemed like a different person than who she was after that hello assembly.

Nah, I think that was intentional. It's a bait and switch and maps pretty much exactly to storm front in the boys (I already compared the two in the episode one thread). Only in the boys it was done much much better.

 

 

[juno]

I classify this show into what I call a "gimmic" show. A show that has a hook that makes it very different from your usual show about teens. This show's gimmic was the sex clinic. The sex clinic was the hook that connected all the story lines and all the characters in season 1 and most of season 2.

Once the hook or gimmic was gone in season 3 we are left with a school about teens and their families. For the writers this is a nightmare as they basically had to build a completely new show.

So instead of building a new show around some pretty good actors, they went with tired tropes and tired plotlines.

1. No growth in any characters, Otis walks around most of the season apologizing for no real reason to everyone even though he is being treated like crap. Only growth in any of the characters was Ruby, Adam and Aimee.
2. Head person acting in such a horrible way that no parent or school division would allow such abusive behaviour. By law you can't just throw kids out on the street. Somehow this strange funding for the school ended in the middle of the school year. Sorry show, by law this kids need to go to school and the district if they someone allow a school to shut down because the supporter's feelings are hurt, they need to find alternate schools for the kids to go to.
3. Beating and I mean beating to death one of the worst shipping couples in tv history in Maeve and Otis. It is funny but once the sex clinic was gone they absolutely had no chemistry. See 4.
4. Ruby who actually had great chemistry with Otis broke up with him because he didn't feel exactly the same for her as she did for him AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME. Then Ruby was strangely angry and for some reason wanted to punish him for it WHICH HE THEN APOLOGIZES FOR???? Was this the best reason to break them up to force Maeve and Otis?? Why couldn't they just have the shark eat Ruby as she and the show were jumping over it?
5. Somehow Maeve who is angry at her true love in almost every scene is able to forgive Isaac who breaks into her phone and deletes her messages. Then somehow doesn't run back to her Otis to apologize and work it out. Because sure stay mad at him and start dating the guy that breaks into your phone.
6. They finally connect with that awkward chemistry and she is magically gone to the states (I guess the writers think I care if they end of together so they pull this tired trope). I guess they had to steal the ending from "Normal People" for one of the dopiest endings I have ever seen.

[possibilities]

Nice cupcakes, though.

[Danny Franks]

19 hours ago, juno said:

Maeve and Otis. It is funny but once the sex clinic was gone they absolutely had no chemistry. 

I agree with most of what you wrote, but will disagree with this. I thought they had great chemistry in the first season, and in some scenes in season two. They weren't really allowed to show it this season, because every scene they shared was laden with unspoken secrets and heartache and an inability to communicate. Otis just looked tired and Maeve looked angry whenever they were on screen together. Not exactly the stuff of great romance.

Their two positive scenes were shot in the dark, for reasons that really pass understanding, so the strength of their interactions - facial expressions and body language - were nigh on impossible to see completely. I think one of Emma Mackey's biggest strengths as an actor is how expressive her face is, but they decided to shroud it in shadow for the revelation that Otis loves her. Just... very strange creative decisions.

19 hours ago, juno said:

 

1. Ruby who actually had great chemistry with Otis broke up with him because he didn't feel exactly the same for her as she did for him AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME. Then Ruby was strangely angry and for some reason wanted to punish him for it WHICH HE THEN APOLOGIZES FOR???? Was this the best reason to break them up to force Maeve and Otis?? Why couldn't they just have the shark eat Ruby as she and the show were jumping over it?

I don't know what to think about their break up. On the one hand it was very silly that they weren't able to get past it, and made no attempt to, but on the other I could see why that might be - Ruby is practically allergic to being vulnerable but when she let her walls down for Otis, he almost immediately hurt her, and Otis is just a pillock when he's trying to talk about his feelings.

The problem they have is that they made Ruby too likable, and Mimi Keene is really good, so a lot of people have found themselves dissatisfied with how abruptly that relationship was cut off, after it ramped up quite organically in the first three episodes.

19 hours ago, juno said:

1. Somehow Maeve who is angry at her true love in almost every scene is able to forgive Isaac who breaks into her phone and deletes her messages. Then somehow doesn't run back to her Otis to apologize and work it out. Because sure stay mad at him and start dating the guy that breaks into your phone.

I will forever believe that they were determined to have the sex scene with Isaac, and would twist the characters in any way it took to get it into the show. They realised that Isaac lying to Maeve and gaslighting her (like he did throughout season two) doesn't exactly send a positive message, so they changed his character and had him confess just so they could say, 'see, he's not lying any more'. But Maeve had to forgive him because otherwise that sex scene couldn't happen.

 

[possibilities]

What, by the way, is the best way to respond to someone who says "I love you" when you aren't ready to say it back?

[Danny Franks]

18 minutes ago, possibilities said:

What, by the way, is the best way to respond to someone who says "I love you" when you aren't ready to say it back?

I suppose something like, 'I'm not there yet, but I really like you and want to be with you,' is as good as anything I can think of. Which seemed to be what Otis was stumbling towards but Ruby didn't want to hear it, although she wasn't helped by the very lukewarm way in which he was saying it.

I guess it's something people find easier to just lie about, because it's always struck me as rather unlikely that both people in a relationship fall in love and are ready to declare it at the exact same moment. It always seems to be presented on television and in movies as this black and white thing - either you're in love or you're not, and if you're not then what's the point?

Edited September 21, 2021 by Danny Franks

[juno]

3 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Which seemed to be what Otis was stumbling towards but Ruby didn't want to hear it, although she wasn't helped by the very lukewarm way in which he was saying it.

He later admitted to having real feelings for Ruby and mentioned that he really liked her but he wasn't there yet.

I am trying to ignore the most annoying trope in history the "if I can't have _____ then I can't fall for anyone else ever. I hope Otis wasn't falling for Ruby because of his love for Maeve. That trope just drives me crazy. I hope that given time that he would of fallen for Ruby.

It wouldn't matter because these writers were determined to make Otis and Maeve happen even if it was wrecking the story for me.

[killer.noona]

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

What, by the way, is the best way to respond to someone who says "I love you" when you aren't ready to say it back?

I believe I said 'Thank you'. 😄

[Aulty]

On 9/21/2021 at 2:38 AM, juno said:

Ruby who actually had great chemistry with Otis broke up with him because he didn't feel exactly the same for her as she did for him AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME. Then Ruby was strangely angry and for some reason wanted to punish him for it WHICH HE THEN APOLOGIZES FOR???? Was this the best reason to break them up to force Maeve and Otis?? Why couldn't they just have the shark eat Ruby as she and the show were jumping over it?

 

16 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The problem they have is that they made Ruby too likable, and Mimi Keene is really good, so a lot of people have found themselves dissatisfied with how abruptly that relationship was cut off, after it ramped up quite organically in the first three episodes.

Asa said in an interview that he and Mimi get along quite well irl, it showed on the show and I understand why people ship them now. However, what seems to have stuck with many is the break-up and the scenes with Ruby's dad. Apart from those scenes, we haven't seen anything that would suggest their relationship was that great. In public, she was quite snoty and didn't treat him that well, while at home he was her dress-up and sex doll. She decided to break-up.
And lets not forget, that Otis used his relationship status to stick it to Maeve twice. He also wasn't that heartbroken when they split - he was concerned that she was upset, but not really crying himself to sleep over it.

16 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I will forever believe that they were determined to have the sex scene with Isaac, and would twist the characters in any way it took to get it into the show. They realised that Isaac lying to Maeve and gaslighting her (like he did throughout season two) doesn't exactly send a positive message, so they changed his character and had him confess just so they could say, 'see, he's not lying any more'. But Maeve had to forgive him because otherwise that sex scene couldn't happen.

Absolutely! They wanted to be super inclusive and no way can they guy with the disability be an arsehole. Someone on here said that the writers didn't expect to audience to dislike him so much in season 2 and I agree.
There are a few storylines in season 3 that could've been pushed to a potential season 4, and Isaac's is one of them. He could've hooked up with one of the other girls and maybe have something more loving and lasting than a quicky with Maeve.

On 9/20/2021 at 9:06 PM, possibilities said:

I wonder if they are going to say the reason Jean was confused about paternity is that her cycles are erratic due to her age. But you'd think Jean of all people would be better at figuring this out. She knew that Jakob had a vasectomy, so she should have been asking a lot more questions and not making sloppy, careless assumptions. They've really done nothing to make this storyline make sense and it's making Jean look either criminally careless or unrealistically stupid.

Is Jean actually good at her job? For someone who is a sex and relationship expert, she is quite shit at it when it comes to her personal stuff. She should be at least vagely aware of her cycle and who she slept with. And as you said, the vasectomy should raise all kinds of flags.

I really hope it isn't Remi's. Leatherclad mommy issues might be an option, but their last on camera hook-up was in S01E07. With season 2 spanning at least 2 months (based on Jackson's injury healing before it ended) that would cut it pretty closely even with Jean stating that she was already a few months in when she found out.

After we had the lovely conversations between Jakob/Ola and Jakob/Otis its quite cruel to saddle that little family with more fabricated drama.

2 minutes ago, killer.noona said:

I believe I said 'Thank you'. 😄

Isn't that what Ryan did on The OC when Marissa said she loved him? 😄

[Danny Franks]

6 hours ago, Aulty said:

And lets not forget, that Otis used his relationship status to stick it to Maeve twice. He also wasn't that heartbroken when they split - he was concerned that she was upset, but not really crying himself to sleep over it.

This is one thing Otis did that really bugged me. When he was repeatedly asking Ruby if she hated him, then expressing happiness that she didn't. Dude... she's allowed to hate you, that's one of the perks of getting your heart broken. She's allowed to not want to see your face or hear your voice and you don't get a say in that.

That was a moment where Otis's maturity and status as a decent guy (rather than a Nice Guy) seemed a little dubious.

6 hours ago, Aulty said:

Absolutely! They wanted to be super inclusive and no way can they guy with the disability be an arsehole. Someone on here said that the writers didn't expect to audience to dislike him so much in season 2 and I agree.
There are a few storylines in season 3 that could've been pushed to a potential season 4, and Isaac's is one of them. He could've hooked up with one of the other girls and maybe have something more loving and lasting than a quicky with Maeve.

That's something they'd have been far better doing - give Isaac a potential love interest, introduced part-way through the season, so that he can actually approach a woman with honesty and authenticity, rather than manipulation and gaslighting about how "no one understands you but me."

Trying to fix his character just so Maeve could have sex with him was so obvious, and so obviously poorly thought out. Then they gave him the full 'martyred hero' treatment by having him make the choice to break up with Maeve, so she didn't have to.

 

[Ms.Lulu]

11 hours ago, killer.noona said:

I believe I said 'Thank you'. 😄

That was my response as well.  'Thank you.  I care about you too." 

[possibilities]

11 hours ago, Aulty said:

Is Jean actually good at her job?

That's a good question. She seemed to be terrible at it when she was working at the school, making assumptions about things rather than actually finding out. I remember especially the girl who was putting a pillow over her bf's face and Jean assumed she was doing it to suffocate him instead of the real reason which was to keep him from seeing her face when she comes. Otis was good at the clinic because he asked questions and had an open mind.

But Jean seems to be good with Aimee, and I thought she was good when Adam's father showed up. 

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

That's a good question. She seemed to be terrible at it when she was working at the school, making assumptions about things rather than actually finding out. I remember especially the girl who was putting a pillow over her bf's face and Jean assumed she was doing it to suffocate him instead of the real reason which was to keep him from seeing her face when she comes. Otis was good at the clinic because he asked questions and had an open mind.

Except for with the asexual girl, when he didn't ask many questions and she offered no real explanation for how she felt. Then, when Jean actually did do a good job, the girl went back and told Otis he was crap at being a sex therapist.

The writers just flipped both Jean and Otis to suit their purposes - Jean was bad at her job when they wanted a misunderstanding with parents, Otis was bad at it when they wanted him to be annoyed at his mother encroaching on his patch.

[caitmcg]

16 hours ago, Aulty said:

Is Jean actually good at her job? For someone who is a sex and relationship expert, she is quite shit at it when it comes to her personal stuff. She should be at least vagely aware of her cycle and who she slept with. And as you said, the vasectomy should raise all kinds of flags.

I mean, therapists are no exception to “physician, heal thyself,” regardless of professional status. Jean’s always been portrayed as a bit of a mess in her personal life. 

[ahisma]

On 9/17/2021 at 10:41 PM, pootlus said:

The platonic relationships in this show are much better done, such as Aimee/Maeve, Adam/Emily (Ms Sands), and especially Otis/Eric.

Yes, Aimee&Maeve were awesome this season! And Jean&Maureen and Adam&Rahim.

I might be in the minority in not hating Eric. He’s a teenager and still figuring out who he is. And he forgot for a bit that he is a flamboyant, makeup-wearing, dance-party extrovert, until someone reminded him. Adam’s also figuring out who he is, but he’s a hang-at-home kind of guy. He made HUGE strides being able to come out in public and have sex, but in the end he isn’t a good match for Eric.

I loved Adam openly smiling when Maureen and Emily were clapping for him at the show. And I loved Michael really enjoying cooking. One way or another they’re all crawling out of the abusive cycle started by Michael’s dad. I am way more invested in the Groffs than I ever imagined I would be!

Hoping for a season 4, though not excited for The Who’s-Jean’s-baby-daddy plot line.

[iwantcookies]

Eric is truly unlikable at this point. Pity since I enjoyed his story line until now.

I expected Lily or Jean to die. Killing off Jean would have given a fresh storyline.

Otie and Maeve as a couple I don’t care … 

Yakob is a fox. 
 

Jean is a ho we get it. Making Yakob not be daddy is mean.

Everyone is too old to be playing 16-17 year old kids. Adam looks 30. 

 

[ShortyMac]

6 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Everyone is too old to be playing 16-17 year old kids. Adam looks 30. 

The actor who plays Adam, Connor Swindells, is 25. Asa Butterfield (Otis) is 24, Emma Mackey (Maeve) is 25, Ncuti Gatwa (Eric) will be 29 in October (!!!!), Patricia Allison (Ola) will be 27 in December, Kedar Williams-Stirling (Jackson), will be turning 27, as well.

I didn’t realize the cast was so “old.” But shows casting actors in their 20s to play teenagers isn’t new. 

[Red Fields]

Even in Season One I thought Eric looked way older than everyone else. I actually found it distracting. But this season I really enjoyed looking at him in that orange outfit. It looked great on him.

[ruby24]

I thought making Yakob not the father makes Jean look really dumb. Come on, if she was having a bunch of sex around the same time AND knows this guy had a vasectomy why would she be so certain it was his? To go through all that before finding out? And waiting all those months to tell him, the thought never crossed her mind? 

I feel 100% certain Maeve's going to come back with an American boyfriend btw. I don't think this show wants to actually put Maeve and Otis together for a whole season, the way they keep going with the near misses and now separating them. 

I also agree the ONLY reason Maeve forgave Isaac for that truly unforgivable act was because they wanted a sex positive scene with a disabled person in the show. But that really made no sense and Otis was right to be pissed and incredulous that she'd start dating him after that. AND still want to after finding out what Otis said.

Edited October 2, 2021 by ruby24

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/22/2021 at 8:59 PM, possibilities said:

That's a good question. She seemed to be terrible at it when she was working at the school, making assumptions about things rather than actually finding out. I remember especially the girl who was putting a pillow over her bf's face and Jean assumed she was doing it to suffocate him instead of the real reason which was to keep him from seeing her face when she comes. Otis was good at the clinic because he asked questions and had an open mind.

But Jean seems to be good with Aimee, and I thought she was good when Adam's father showed up. 

Otis was good with the clinic and shows real talent. He's not a licensed therapist but I can see him being a coach, therapist/counselor in the future. Or really, just any career where those empathetic listening skills are needed. The clinic was unethical but so is a lot of what Jean does.

For instance, Jean wasn't supposed to therapize the students but she started spewing advice without developing that therapist-client relationship. And yea, she didn't ask enough questions about the pillow over the boyfriend's face. Writing down the details of students' sex and relationship challenges with their full names and then leaving her notebook where anyone could just grab it from her bag was a huge no-no. Otis was the one who took her notebook but any person who saw her writing in it could have taken it easily. It's not like Otis took it from her locked home office. As Eric said, how could Jean just leave her notes lying around? Also, using information for her book was wrong. 

I hand waved the fact that Jean should have referred Aimee to someone else - it's not always easy to warm up to a therapist. But it was hard to do that when she asked for details about Maeve. I had completely forgotten that Jean didn't know about Maeve. 

I think Jean is quite knowledgeable and often helpful but not necessarily a good therapist. 

On 9/25/2021 at 4:07 PM, ahisma said:

Yes, Aimee&Maeve were awesome this season! And Jean&Maureen and Adam&Rahim.

I might be in the minority in not hating Eric. He’s a teenager and still figuring out who he is. And he forgot for a bit that he is a flamboyant, makeup-wearing, dance-party extrovert, until someone reminded him. Adam’s also figuring out who he is, but he’s a hang-at-home kind of guy. He made HUGE strides being able to come out in public and have sex, but in the end he isn’t a good match for Eric.

I loved Adam openly smiling when Maureen and Emily were clapping for him at the show. And I loved Michael really enjoying cooking. One way or another they’re all crawling out of the abusive cycle started by Michael’s dad. I am way more invested in the Groffs than I ever imagined I would be!

Hoping for a season 4, though not excited for The Who’s-Jean’s-baby-daddy plot line.

You can sit with me at the not-hating-Eric table. I personally just really adore his character, even though I didn't always agree with him. I thought he and Adam were horribly matched and it had nothing to do with makeup or wanting to go to dance parties. Neither of them is ready to have a boyfriend. Adam needs to figure out what he's doing and is just learning to express himself openly. It wasn't that long ago that he had issues during intercourse with his girlfriend, exposed himself in the cafeteria, and bullied Eric. The boy needs time to figure stuff out. I appreciate that Otis was uneasy about them getting together in the first place. Eric has a great friend in Otis but could still stand to hang out with more people benefit from meeting people who enjoy the same things he does. I don't think his romantic partner needs to be someone who's flamboyant and/or likes to wear makeup.

On 9/27/2021 at 11:20 PM, ShortyMac said:

The actor who plays Adam, Connor Swindells, is 25. Asa Butterfield (Otis) is 24, Emma Mackey (Maeve) is 25, Ncuti Gatwa (Eric) will be 29 in October (!!!!), Patricia Allison (Ola) will be 27 in December, Kedar Williams-Stirling (Jackson), will be turning 27, as well.

I didn’t realize the cast was so “old.” But shows casting actors in their 20s to play teenagers isn’t new. 

Yes, I think it's the norm to have older actors portray teenagers. It actually wasn't too bad in this show. The actors who play Otis, Eric, and Jackson pass a whole lot better for high school students - especially the actor who portrays Otis. The actor portraying Maeve looks a lot more mature to me, especially with the dark hair. Some people just have those kinds of facial features. For instance, Lily and Adam also look much older to me and I think it's just their natural facial features - thin lips that seem to be pursed tight into a line or a frown. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/25/2021 at 4:07 PM, ahisma said:

Yes, Aimee&Maeve were awesome this season! And Jean&Maureen and Adam&Rahim.

I might be in the minority in not hating Eric. He’s a teenager and still figuring out who he is. And he forgot for a bit that he is a flamboyant, makeup-wearing, dance-party extrovert, until someone reminded him. Adam’s also figuring out who he is, but he’s a hang-at-home kind of guy. He made HUGE strides being able to come out in public and have sex, but in the end he isn’t a good match for Eric.

I loved Adam openly smiling when Maureen and Emily were clapping for him at the show. And I loved Michael really enjoying cooking. One way or another they’re all crawling out of the abusive cycle started by Michael’s dad. I am way more invested in the Groffs than I ever imagined I would be!

Hoping for a season 4, though not excited for The Who’s-Jean’s-baby-daddy plot line.

I am also surprised by my interest in the Groff family. I absolutely adore Maureen and I never thought I'd say I would prefer to see Michael get another shot at being head teacher. 

Also agree re: season 4 excitement (although I only started watching this show this past summer) and dreading the baby-daddy plot line. There's no way no one ever considered that he wasn't the father??? I don't know what the timeline is on this show but for all those months Jean was pregnant before telling Jakob, she didn't confirm? I thought running into the younger guy she had been with was a hint that they might try making the baby's paternity a question mark. It's a horrible thing to do to, especially to Jakob and Ola. 

On 9/27/2021 at 5:03 PM, iwantcookies said:

Eric is truly unlikable at this point. Pity since I enjoyed his story line until now.

I expected Lily or Jean to die. Killing off Jean would have given a fresh storyline.

Otie and Maeve as a couple I don’t care … 

Yakob is a fox. 

Jean is a ho we get it. Making Yakob not be daddy is mean.
Everyone is too old to be playing 16-17 year old kids. Adam looks 30. 

 

Jacob is quite good-looking and has a beautiful smile. I don't remember him looking that way when his character was first introduced. I was wondering how it never occurred to anyone that he wasn't the baby's father. Jean should have at least considered it and she had plenty of time to figure that out before telling Jacob she was pregnant. They hadn't seen each other in years. 

On 9/18/2021 at 8:19 PM, possibilities said:

I was actually sad that Aimee concluded she didn't want to be with Steve. Was it not about the assault at all, and she just didn't like Steve? He seemed like a great guy. I get that sometimes you're just not into someone and there's no particular reason, and also that kids that age are more likely to have churn in their relationships than be looking to settle down. But I liked Steve.

I was sad, too. Steve is so great and they're great together. But maybe they'll get together later on when Aimee is ready. 

[ahisma]

2 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Eric has a great friend in Otis but could still stand to hang out with more people benefit from meeting people who enjoy the same things he does. I don't think his romantic partner needs to be someone who's flamboyant and/or likes to wear makeup.

Definitely agree. He could use friends and/or a boyfriend who like going out dancing, though.

[Danny Franks]

On 10/6/2021 at 2:53 PM, love2lovebadtv said:

Also agree re: season 4 excitement (although I only started watching this show this past summer) and dreading the baby-daddy plot line. There's no way no one ever considered that he wasn't the father??? I don't know what the timeline is on this show but for all those months Jean was pregnant before telling Jakob, she didn't confirm? I thought running into the younger guy she had been with was a hint that they might try making the baby's paternity a question mark. It's a horrible thing to do to, especially to Jakob and Ola. 

Both Jakob and Ola considered that Jakob wasn't the father, but Jean assured them he was. The fact that she never doubted the father was Jakob, despite apparently sleeping with someone else in that period, is fucking ludicrous. Jean is supposed to be intelligent and measured, not a moron.

I hate cheap, inauthentic drama like this. And despite not liking Jakob much in season two, I really liked him as a quasi-father figure to Otis and an actual father figure to Ola, I don't need to see the writers ruin things with Jerry Springer-style drama.

 

[possibilities]

I actually can't stand Jakob. But I hate the baby daddy drama even more. It's total character assassination for Jean, who was already flawed enough to be hard to take and one of my least favorite characters on the show.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/7/2021 at 2:31 PM, Danny Franks said:

Both Jakob and Ola considered that Jakob wasn't the father, but Jean assured them he was. The fact that she never doubted the father was Jakob, despite apparently sleeping with someone else in that period, is fucking ludicrous. Jean is supposed to be intelligent and measured, not a moron.

I hate cheap, inauthentic drama like this. And despite not liking Jakob much in season two, I really liked him as a quasi-father figure to Otis and an actual father figure to Ola, I don't need to see the writers ruin things with Jerry Springer-style drama.

 

I remember Ola asking if Jean tricked Jakob. I didn't realize they both questioned paternity. 

Did Jean intentionally lie or did it really not occur to her that someone else could be the father? How dumb either way! 

[Eeksquire]

Quote

What, by the way, is the best way to respond to someone who says "I love you" when you aren't ready to say it back?

I believe I said 'Thank you'. 😄

Oh god, and then there's me, the last time I was in a position where I knew a declaration of love was coming at me and all I could do was sit there and think "Don't say thank you, don't say thank you, don't say thank you, don't say thank you...." 😂 That was a hard moment to watch, because I felt for both Ruby and Otis - it's an awkward spot to be in, but it's especially awful when - as for Ruby - it's the first time you've been in that position. 

[bilgistic]

I just finished season three last night and my biggest question is why do they call the head teacher by her first name?? For such a stickler for "properness", why would she be okay with being casual on that level with students? That made zero sense and was never explained. Didn't they call the other teachers Mr. and Ms. Whoever? And Michael was Mr. Groff?

I don't think I even called my college professors by their first names.

Is a "head teacher" the same thing as a principal? I already had a low tolerance for Jemima Kirke's "unaffected coolness", so here's hoping she never comes back.

Team Eric. He's gorgeous and fun and I love him. His laugh is infectious.

[Aulty]

6 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I just finished season three last night and my biggest question is why do they call the head teacher by her first name?? For such a stickler for "properness", why would she be okay with being casual on that level with students? That made zero sense and was never explained. Didn't they call the other teachers Mr. and Ms. Whoever? And Michael was Mr. Groff?

Hope herself said it during the first assembly: I am your new head teacher, Mrs. Haddon, but you can call me Hope.
It was probably part of marketing herself as this young, hip, dancing head before she took a turn into dictator-ville. But I agree, it was weird.

6 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Is a "head teacher" the same thing as a principal? .

In this context, yes. The head teacher would be in charge of managing the day to day running of the school.

[SnarkAttack]

I have a hard time with Adam's dead eyes.

[marshmallows]

Oooff that was a lot.

I could care less about Otis and Maeve. I wasn't even into them in the first season when they may have actually had potential and some mild chemistry. They should have put them together early in s2 and then have them break up over something dramatic if you still want the audience to be invested or break them up over them realizing it was just something they built up in their heads and then let them properly move on with more interesting love interests. But dragging it out this long makes it to where they really can't put Maeve or Otis with someone else without the impending doom of them ending because the writers seem so dead set on Maeve/Otis being endgame but not until the very end of the entire series.

It is going to make me soooo beyond upset/irritated if Jakob isn't the father. It makes Jean look irresponsible and ignorant. And like she really was trying to trap Jakob. Lets seriously hope the writers turn this around and just let Jakob be the father. Jakob and Jean have far more interesting issues to work through than "who is the baby daddy?"

And my oh my how the tables have turned from s1 to the end of s3 for me on Eric and Adam. Eric was by far my favorite character and I felt very protective of him and now that has switched to Adam. Eric's breakup with Adam seemed so OOC for Eric to be so dismissive and cruel. Adam has recently come out of the closet and does not have the accepting home life that Eric has. Adam also has deep seated issues with his father which has caused Adam to have self esteem and self identity issues as well as abusive tendencies toward others. But he has really been working on all of that through s2 and s3. And by no means am I saying Eric has to stay with Adam because of any of this, but he could have had a little more grace and tact when breaking up with him. Eric was quite cruel and seemed so nonchalant about the breakup because he wants to "fly." Whatever Eric- you had an exhilarating night of risky fun in a gay night club in Nigeria, that is not everyday life. They are also 17 so I'm not sure what nightclub Eric thought he and Adam were going to go to. (And I'm from the US, so night clubs for teenagers are slim and typically require parental drop off at minimum, it may be different in the UK). This breakup just seemed premature and I wasn't really shown on screen how Adam is holding Eric back. Adam just wasn't ready to tell his family, but he was completely out at school and in public with Eric. With everything Adam has went through with his parents I can see why he would have reservations about telling them. Idk I'm just really disappointed in this because I loved the Adam/Eric ship and I have really grown to like the Adam character. He and Aimee are actually two of the best written characters.

Speaking of Aimee- at least her break up with Steve has been building all season. Their break up made a lot of sense to me and we were shown why that was going to happen unlike the Adam/Eric break up.

I know this whole post sounds like a bash, but I truly do enjoy this show, it was just a weird season finale with a lot to unpack that I wasn't so happy with. 

[mledawn]

These characters are supposed to be teenagers and that is the most difficult thing to accept on this show. 
I get that I am old but this is causing some serious suspension of disbelief for many reasons, least of which being that none of these actors look like teens. Adam looks like he has kids and a soul-crushing full-time job. 

[possibilities]

I think there might be issues with casting actual teens for a show with this muche xplicit sexual content.