S23.E01: And The Empire Strikes Back/S23.E02: Never Turn Your Back On Them

[WendyCR72]

Yep, a double-header season premiere. Airing on September 23, 2021:

And The Empire Strikes Back synopsis:

Quote

Benson's loyalty to Garland is tested. Rollins and Carisi try to keep their witnesses on board when the congressman is identified as a suspect.

Never Turn Your Back On Them synopsis:

Quote

The search for a missing witness leads Fin and Kat down a dangerous path. Chief McGrath puts pressure on Garland and Benson to get a conviction.

 

[dttruman]

I wonder how Tamin and Garland go out? In a blaze of glory or unceremoniously like Stabler (when he left the show) or Tucker by taking his own life?

I just hope they don't make it too political, because they already have by so many Gaetz comments. I thought they had a great one, a home grown one in their own backyard that was right up SVU's alley, the Andrew Cuomo case and his accusers. This would have made Benson a Super Saint.

[dttruman]

On 9/15/2021 at 1:21 AM, WendyCR72 said:

  Quote

Benson's loyalty to Garland is tested. Rollins and Carisi try to keep their witnesses on board when the congressman is identified as a suspect.

Well we know that Tamin doesn't buy it in the first episode, I wonder if she will buy it in the 2nd episode.

On 9/15/2021 at 1:21 AM, WendyCR72 said:

The search for a missing witness leads Fin and Kat down a dangerous path. Chief McGrath puts pressure on Garland and Benson to get a conviction.

How can Chief McGrath put pressure on Garland and Benson to get a conviction? Isn't it Carisi job to get the conviction?

[Xeliou66]

I’m not 100% sure about how Kat and Garland will go out, but I have a feeling they may kill off Kat - that’s just the feeling I have because I’m not sure what else they could do with her, they could have her transfer back to doing undercover work, but I don’t see her getting fired or promoted. So I’m thinking that SVU kills off a main character for the first time ever. I think that explains why there aren't many photos from the premiere being posted online. As for Garland, my most likely bet is that he quits in disgust with the higher ups and decides to go work as an activist for reform or run for political office or something.

As I’ve said before, I’ll miss Garland as he was good as chief but there isn’t a need for the chief to be in every episode, and I bet going forward the chief will be a recurring character again like it was during the Dodds era, I won’t miss Kat though, the writers really blew an opportunity with her, she could’ve added freshness to the show but instead she was a one note crybaby whose sole purpose seemed to be providing sex appeal and far left/SJW political views.

I’m just not very hopeful about this season of SVU - the show seems to be focusing more on relationships than on cases, and I think there will be even more pandering to the shippers of Stabler/Benson and Rollins/Carisi. I’m afraid this will be the season that the show officially becomes more about personal stuff than cases, it’s had way too much personal shit for a while but this season I fear the absolute worst about. Maybe I’ll be wrong, but no matter what, modern day SVU is a shell of its former self. 

[dttruman]

Don't like the looks of this with Fin making a racial remark and Tamin making a typical Liberal remark. Fin says "There is nothing sadder than watching white people congratulate themselves" and Tamin says something to the effect, that she and her partner will leave the country if a white Republican is elected. This maybe a harbinger for a definite political statement episode.

[SuzieQ]

So we never find out how many cops it takes to change a light bulb??????

[Neiman]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

Don't like the looks of this with Fin making a racial remark and Tamin making a typical Liberal remark. Fin says "There is nothing sadder than watching white people congratulate themselves" and Tamin says something to the effect, that she and her partner will leave the country if a white Republican is elected. This maybe a harbinger for a definite political statement episode.

Those lines were so unnecessary and so disappointing. 

[dttruman]

42 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

So we never find out how many cops it takes to change a light bulb??????

The answer is "None". They bust the light bulb for being broke and bust the room for being black.

What really surprised me was that there was nothing even close to a trial, just the bail hearing. I thought for sure they would start out with a trial to show that the rich and powerful has to face the consequences of what they do..

Edited September 24, 2021 by dttruman

[Neiman]

I have no problems with cutting Garland and Kat. Never cared for either of those characters. 

I’m not excited about the new guy, Q. Is he going to be a regular? 

I feel like more should have been accomplished given this 2-hour season opener. 

When I was in grad school, I took a theatre class, and chapter one of the textbook said that conflict is the basis of drama, and writers should create characters to care about. There were so many people on the screen that I really didn’t care about. I should have cared about the 15 year-old and her family, but I didn’t like any of them. Whoever is in charge of casting has missed the mark.

The Carisi/blondie relationship is already stale. Lipstick on the collar? 🙄

[statsgirl]

Well that was political. Naming Matt Gaetz, casting Howard to look like him, Gold threatening to bring down an ex-president and and his relatives.

I'm going to miss Kat and Garland, I barely got to know them. I'd rather Rollins and/or Carisi had gone.

I'm really not feeling 'Q'. Too much too soon.

Already had too much of Benson/Stabler. The time has passed and it feels like pandering now.

[mommalib]

I am going to miss Garland, he was was a good chief and he was someone that saint Olivia seemed to respect. I don't care abut Kat and I'm not interested in this Rollins and Carisi thing, I don't like the new guy and I hope he's not sticking around. 

[The Wild Sow]

25 other perfectly good letters in the alphabet- and they went with “Q”??!!!  

[pezgirl7]

I liked Q. But he kept reminding me of Danny Zuko. 😆 I don’t like Carisi and Rollins together because Amanda and her family have always been a hot mess. I suppose she’s settled down a bit, but I think Carisi could do better, and I feel like she’ll probably break his heart in the end. 

[Xeliou66]

Here are my thoughts on this 

3 minutes into the premiere and I’m already disgusted - I don’t like Rollins/Carisi together, and Benson dreaming that Stabler was with her after her car crash, that was just more pandering to the shippers. And why was St Olivia’s presence needed at the DA’s office? She’s not a DA, they can make deals without her.

The whole thing was predictable - it was obvious witnesses would get killed/intimidated, and it was obvious that the higher ups would shut down the case. And who exactly killed Ortiz and Machado? That part seemed to be forgotten about. I get sick of stories about corrupt elites covering each others asses, it’s stale and overdone. I cannot stand McGrath, it’s obvious he’s a sleazy bureaucrat and I don’t look forward to seeing more of him. I’ll admit I laughed at how they mentioned the lawyer had dirt on an ex-president and his family without mentioning his name (we all know who he is). It was accurate that the Attorney General and DC bigwigs would shut it down, the elites always protect each other because they don’t want anyone going after them at some point. It was nice that they didn’t mention Hadid’s name, and that it wasn’t the DA’s office who shut down the investigation. 

I’m not sure why they got rid of Garland, I liked him, but I correctly predicted the way he would go out, I think Garland will be an activist or maybe run for office. I really wonder who they will bring in as the new chief overseeing SVU, I’ve liked both Dodds and Garland, so I hope this new chief is compelling. But I don’t look forward to seeing more of McGrath (that actor has played an asshole villain in every role I’ve ever seen him play).

And Kat departed in exactly the same way as Garland - I wasn’t sure if she was going to die or not, so that was suspenseful. And of course Kat’s departure has to be all about St Olivia and how wonderful she is, I get so sick of that, why does every character have to worship at the altar of St Olivia?

It may seem like I hated this episode from what I’ve said so far, but there were some good parts - I liked seeing Carisi act as an ADA with authority, they’ve gotten a much better handle on how to write him lately after basically writing him as still part of the squad in season 21. Fin was good, I liked that he had the sense to take Benson to the doctor, and I liked his scene with Kat at the hospital, Fin is the most stable and consistently good part of the show. And I liked the scene at the hotel where they were conducting the sting, no St Olivia and everyone doing their jobs. 

I actually like Joe Velasco, the new detective, I think he could be a jolt of new energy the show needs. At first I wasn’t sure if he was good or bad, but it looks like he’s a good guy and I hope he stays that way, his tie to McGrath is suspicious but he seems upstanding. Either way I already like him better than Kat, I won’t miss Kat and her trite “woke” dialogue and disrespectful attitude. So I’m glad Velasco will be sticking around, he’s intriguing and an intriguing new detective is what the show needs.

So while I found the episode rather predictable and the material rather stale, it wasn’t horrible. I’m not sure why they wrote out Garland and Kat, probably the budget played a role, but I think Velasco will make things interesting. However I’m afraid we will just get more of these stale stories with a side dose of Benson worship and soapy drama, next week looks like exactly the same type of case, I know it’s a crossover with OC so hopefully it will be something different. But I don’t have high hopes at all for season 23.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Xeliou66

[EtheltoTillie]

Team of one. I like Rollins and Carisi together. He looks so happy. Hope it doesn’t go south.

Gold has always been on the show. Is he going to be gone now?   
I like the new detective but why this new chief?  I don’t get how that saves on budget. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by GussieK

[WendyCR72]

40 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Team of one. I like Rollins and Carisi together. He looks so happy. Hope it doesn’t go south.

Gold has always been on the show. Is he going to be gone now?   
I like the new detective but why this new chief?  I don’t get how that saves on budget. 

Newer actors with fresh contracts (as I guess the detective guy is) means less money to pay than it would have if Jamie Gray Hyder (or whatever her name is) and the actor playing Garland had remained, is my simple guess.

[dttruman]

6 hours ago, Neiman said:

There were so many people on the screen that I really didn’t care about. I should have cared about the 15 year-old and her family, but I didn’t like any of them

I thought the father was a really big jerk, very unlikable. I kept thinking he is going to do something that gets his daughter killed and blame the police.  IMO, the writers and director went too over the top to make him unlikable.

[Neiman]

I don’t mind Rollins and Carisi together, but I want them to have an adult relationship. Late at night and she’s looking for action instead of realizing she’s got two little ones at home. No need for longing looks and lipstick on the collar sessions while on the job.

I’m disappointed with where they’ve taken Fin. He comes across as a racist at times and no need to listen to his politics.

[Ohiopirate02]

9 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

I liked Q. But he kept reminding me of Danny Zuko. 😆 I don’t like Carisi and Rollins together because Amanda and her family have always been a hot mess. I suppose she’s settled down a bit, but I think Carisi could do better, and I feel like she’ll probably break his heart in the end. 

He can definitely do better.  Given Rollins's track record with men on this show, I'm waiting for her to hook up with this new detective.  

[mommalib]

3 hours ago, Neiman said:

I don’t mind Rollins and Carisi together, but I want them to have an adult relationship. Late at night and she’s looking for action instead of realizing she’s got two little ones at home. No need for longing looks and lipstick on the collar sessions while on the job.

I’m disappointed with where they’ve taken Fin. He comes across as a racist at times and no need to listen to his politics.

Fin a racist? Oh please, but yes as a Black man and especially a Black cop  it's not far fetched to believe that he has seen and experienced things that form his perceptions and understandably so.

[dttruman]

32 minutes ago, mommalib said:

Fin a racist? Oh please, but yes as a Black man and especially a Black cop  it's not far fetched to believe that he has seen and experienced things that form his perceptions and understandably so.

Fin has always made a lot of sarcastic remarks about certain things including certain racist people and suspects, but that little outburst at the beginning was very OOC for him. I wonder if we will see more example of these throughout the season.

Edited September 24, 2021 by dttruman

[EtheltoTillie]

6 hours ago, dttruman said:

I thought the father was a really big jerk, very unlikable. I kept thinking he is going to do something that gets his daughter killed and blame the police.  IMO, the writers and director went too over the top to make him unlikable.

The father was a jerk, and it did not feel authentic to the story.  The abortion story was insane, what with the Congressman suddenly complaining about how his child was killed? 

[SuzieQ]

I'm just going to say it:  Rollins is a stupid slut, who makes really bad decisions.  She just is.  I don't hate her, believe it or not, she just is who she is.  It makes no sense to me that uber Catholic Carisi would consider her relationship material.

[EtheltoTillie]

34 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

I'm just going to say it:  Rollins is a stupid slut, who makes really bad decisions.  She just is.  I don't hate her, believe it or not, she just is who she is.  It makes no sense to me that uber Catholic Carisi would consider her relationship material.

Yes, but deep down she has a good heart and cares for her kids.  Hey, I'm just an old softie.  I don't want to see my Carisi get hurt, believe me.  Carisi and I went to the same law school! 

Edited September 24, 2021 by GussieK

[dttruman]

30 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

I'm just going to say it:  Rollins is a stupid slut, who makes really bad decisions.  She just is.  I don't hate her, believe it or not, she just is who she is.  It makes no sense to me that uber Catholic Carisi would consider her relationship material.

I understand and agree. I don't know where she gets it from, maybe her father, but it's that self-destructiveness that is so annoying. and I know the writers will sooner or later write a scene where she gets fed up with things and she goes out and has a one night stand. To make matters worse, it will be while Carisi is watching the kids.

[dttruman]

7 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Yes, but deep down she has a good heart and cares for her kids.  Hey, I'm just an old softie.  I don't want to see my Carisi get hurt, believe me.  Carisi and I went to the same law school! 

It's just her actions that tick me off. But considering all the mistakes she has made in the past, I thought she was kind of condescending to the new detective.

[dttruman]

Did anyone notice that when Benson was up on the balcony with Garland talking about the apparent suicide that Benson mentions to him that the "ME is looking into trajectory and force of impact"? Wouldn't that be Forensics that does that and the ME just determines the injuries and cause of death?

[SuzieQ]

20 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Yes, but deep down she has a good heart and cares for her kids.  Hey, I'm just an old softie.  I don't want to see my Carisi get hurt, believe me.  Carisi and I went to the same law school! 

She does and is trying, but I feel like there' a chip she's missing.  Sooner or later her self destructive streak will come back.  I understand how she got there as her parents and sister are all a mess.  I think Carisi is probably really good for her but she is terrible for him.

[TVMovieBuff]

Look for Olivia to develop a dependence on painkillers. Notice how she threw down a pain pill, before she took off to do something, saying her broken ankle didn't hurt? I bet it hurts plenty. She told Fin when he asked what the doctor said, that she's a fast healer. No one heals that fast. No boot, no brace? Didn't anybody in that squadroom have a broken ankle or know someone who did?

I broke my ankle 2 years ago. It didn't break clean through , but a piece of one bone broke off. I had to wear a boot all the time, except for showering & sleeping. Then after a certain amount of time with the boot, the doctor switched mee to a lace-up thing. I couldn't wear a normal shoe for months. I have a high pain tolerance and didn't use a lot of pills but in my slightly knowledgeable opinion, Olivia's broken ankle was worse than mine. She doesn't want to be inconvenienced by the ankle and she will pay the price.

[Gigi43]

I don't like Kat but if this is the exit, knowing JGH wanted to stay that scene where Liv is trying to get Kat to stay and telling her how important and needed she was, was awkward to watch, knowing they gave her the shaft IRL. Surely they'd have to know JGH would publicly state she didn't want to go but I also wonder if they thought that scene would translate to making fans think it was the actresses choice to leave. I'm glad FInn was spared not watching Kat die, I was afraid they'd put him through that a year after the shooting, and right after the not-wedding.

 

I'll miss Garland. If McGrath is sticking around to be a foil this season will be old fast. 

 

Q??? C'mon. Be original. There are more letters to use.

 

Liv dreaming of Stabler. Uhg. Please stop. Same with Rollins/Carisi (I gotta say it, how long until she starts to look at Joe the new detective?) FInn can't even get a day off after his non-wedding. 

[wknt3]

The Good:
Kat and Fin, There was more chemistry there than any of the ships they were actually pushing. Of course all the characters work better when they're paired with Fin.
Kat in general. It's a shame it took writing the character out for the writers to remember how much potential she had.
Carisi as ADA. I would have liked to have seen him in court a lot more, but it was nice to see him actually being a prosecutor and in charge of the legal side.
Rollins was mostly off to the side during the investigation so other than the scene with her talking about the right way to do things (really Rollins you think you're one to talk?) she was only ruining the Rollisi scenes and not the rest of the episode. Addition by subtraction.
No more mask stupidity!
They didn't go for the Noah/Rollinspawn in peril angle!

The Bad:
The shippy opening. I loved Rollins and Carisi as subtext and an organic product of the actors chemistry and the writers making Carisi an almost impossibly nice guy. And I also like Benson and Stabler together, but not like this.
I liked the story more than most of you seem to, but there just didn't really seem to be enough there to need to be a 2-parter, Actually 3 including last season's finale. It was 5 pounds of crap in a 10 pound bag.
The ending. Carisi taking ethics advice from Rollins? Kat leaving because she didn't see complete social change and solving sexual abuse in a year? The new boss practically dragging his knuckles on the way out of Liv's office?
The whole OC promo flashback in therapy. The shippers know where to go and we don't need constant crossovers. You would do more to promote the new spinoff by giving them a decent lead in.

Overall this was OK I guess. It could have been a really solid hour if they dropped the soapy romance nonsense and the unnecessary padding including the whole supervillian conspiracy stuff. Instead it was a mostly competent 2 hours that does nothing to get me excited for another season. Hopefully we will remember this as the bumpy start that was overcome rather than a harbinger of things to come.

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by wknt3
revised and extended my remarks

[WendyCR72]

Just leave the romance out of the squad room. Including the lipstick on the collar references, I say. This is supposed to be a professional situation. No need to advertise on the job, so to speak.

Keep it to fanfic or the occasional allusion.

If I wanted to watch the mess that is the Chicago franchise with the romance in the workplace, I would. The L&O franchise used to be more circumspect. Don't ruin it now!

(And I say this even more strongly after the (IMO!) awful preview for next week.)

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Overall this was OK I guess. It could have been a really solid hour if they dropped the soapy romance nonsense and the unnecessary padding including the whole supervillian conspiracy stuff. Instead it was a mostly competent 2 hours that does nothing to get me excited for another season. Hopefully we will remember this as the bumpy start that was overcome rather than a harbinger of things to come.

Correct, this is just another example of a possible good story line, that is water downed and made so superficial, you think something  BIG is going to come of it, but it's just a BIG DUD. Whomever is coming up with these story lines has some great potential, but once SVU producers get a hold of it and insert their influence it's just a shadow of what it could be.

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just leave the romance out of the squad room. Including the lipstick on the collar references, I say. This is supposed to be a professional situation. No need to advertize on the job, so to speak.

Keep it to fanfic or the occasional allusion.

If I wanted to watch the mess that is the Chicago franchise with the romance in the workplace, I would. The L&O franchise used to be more circumspect. Don't ruin it now!

(And I say this even more strongly after the (IMO!) awful preview for next week.)

Amen to this!! SVU is just a soap opera now, it’s only slightly less of a soap opera than the Chicago shows, and I’m afraid it’s just going to get worse. The show is pandering heavily to shippers who are very vocal about their love of romance on the show. And SVU has already tarnished its own legacy and the legacy of the L&O franchise IMO, let’s just hope they don’t sink deeper into the hole they’ve dug for themselves. At least the Mothership and CI went out on high notes. 

[wknt3]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just leave the romance out of the squad room. Including the lipstick on the collar references, I say. This is supposed to be a professional situation. No need to advertise on the job, so to speak.

Keep it to fanfic or the occasional allusion.

Yep. I enjoyed making jokes about Rollisi but I have less than zero interest in seeing it on screen. The chemistry is there, but it works best as some mix of UST and left to the imagination. And what's worse is that they seem to dragging Carisi down rather than using it to redeem Rollins. As I said in my comments on the episode having Carisi taking advice on ethics and how to manage his personal life from Rollins is just mind blowingly stupid.
 

On 9/24/2021 at 2:39 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Newer actors with fresh contracts (as I guess the detective guy is) means less money to pay than it would have if Jamie Gray Hyder (or whatever her name is) and the actor playing Garland had remained, is my simple guess.

Has there been any announcement as to rather the new additions are series regulars? If they are simply recurring characters with fewer episodes that would also save money. I would actually hope the new chief is a recurring bit player like Carisi's evil boss and can be disposed of or left off screen. At least until the series finale where Liv is promoted to the job...

[Xeliou66]

6 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Yep. I enjoyed making jokes about Rollisi but I have less than zero interest in seeing it on screen. The chemistry is there, but it works best as some mix of UST and left to the imagination. And what's worse is that they seem to dragging Carisi down rather than using it to redeem Rollins. As I said in my comments on the episode having Carisi taking advice on ethics and how to manage his personal life from Rollins is just mind blowingly stupid.
 

Has there been any announcement as to rather the new additions are series regulars? If they are simply recurring characters with fewer episodes that would also save money. I would actually hope the new chief is a recurring bit player like Carisi's evil boss and can be disposed of or left off screen. At least until the series finale where Liv is promoted to the job...

There haven’t been any official announcements about new series regulars - I’m not sure if Joe Velasco is going to be a main character or just recurring. McGrath, the stereotypical no good bureaucrat jerk boss, will just be recurring, no way they make an antagonist a regular. I don’t know who will replace Garland.

I don’t even see much chemistry between Rollins/Carisi, they just happen to be a man and woman of around the same age who work together, and that means they have to sleep together according to the soap opera lovers and shippers. It’s beyond forced, and yes it’s just going to be used to drag Carisi down and probably eventually tarnish his reputation, we all know how much this show loves to trash ADA’s, because Rollins is a writers pet and this show is all about the super mommies Benson and Rollins. And now it looks like we will have a Benson/Stabler romance along with Rollins/Carisi. 
I honestly don’t even know why I continue to watch this dreck, it’s just so poorly done most of the time. And it seems like the writers are out of fresh ideas, this season premiere was so stale and predictable, and like you said above it didn’t really have enough meat to be a 2 hour episode. 

[lazylump]

I am A fan of SVU now.  Stopped watching it before stabler left and picked it up on and off in reruns the last year or two. I am enjoying it, but I prefer the monster of the week and a little romance as a distraction to a heavy episode.  I love Rollisi and I really want it to work.  They are good together and I hope they don’t ruin it by doing the on and off thing. I hate that when writers do that.  

I enjoyed the Rollisi scenes but didn’t find them really “spicy”.   Carisi finally gets the girl he has been pining for and when she asks he has a passive “seems to be” shrug.   Even when she asked about “tomorrow”. He didn’t even smile at her.   If I can see them flirting and working - the hotel room quip was good.

I hope it just becomes an accepted thing that they are married and have some personal/ professional disagreements.   When I returned to watching SVU  i saw the episode when Carisi was holding the baby when Rollins was watching that bachelorette type show.  I had to go to the internet to figure out if they were together.  That is what I want  -subtle

 

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, lazylump said:

I am A fan of SVU now.  Stopped watching it before stabler left and picked it up on and off in reruns the last year or two. I am enjoying it, but I prefer the monster of the week and a little romance as a distraction to a heavy episode.  I love Rollisi and I really want it to work.  They are good together and I hope they don’t ruin it by doing the on and off thing. I hate that when writers do that.  

I enjoyed the Rollisi scenes but didn’t find them really “spicy”.   Carisi finally gets the girl he has been pining for and when she asks he has a passive “seems to be” shrug.   Even when she asked about “tomorrow”. He didn’t even smile at her.   If I can see them flirting and working - the hotel room quip was good.

I hope it just becomes an accepted thing that they are married and have some personal/ professional disagreements.   When I returned to watching SVU  i saw the episode when Carisi was holding the baby when Rollins was watching that bachelorette type show.  I had to go to the internet to figure out if they were together.  That is what I want  -subtle

 

Like someone has mentioned from before, Rollins has become the dependable controversial cop. The writers (on orders from the producers) have to make Rollins get caught up in something. Whether it's her deliberately breaking protocol, getting unusually over emotional at inopportune times, or just plain braking the law, she is Benson's replacement for that now. They can't have Benson in those kind of positions now because she is in a definite position of authority.

I just hope we don't see too many episodes of Rollins and her Trial and Tribulations.

[preeya]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I honestly don’t even know why I continue to watch this dreck, it’s just so poorly done most of the time. And it seems like the writers are out of fresh ideas, this season premiere was so stale and predictable, and like you said above it didn’t really have enough meat to be a 2 hour episode. 

ITA with this ↑

[WendyCR72]

All we really know right now is this show is already renewed for one more season. So there is a chance that the writers may be coasting. I hope that is not the case, but the way things are beginning...

I do think NBC will likely try to get to at least S25. Heck, if Dick Wolf had his way, I'd think he'd love to get to S30 and have Olivia as the new Jessica Fletcher (would that make Elliot the Tom Bosley sheriff dude?).

I wish NBC and Dick Wolf believed in ending on a high note, but I think that ship has long since sailed.

[dttruman]

7 hours ago, preeya said:

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I honestly don’t even know why I continue to watch this dreck, it’s just so poorly done most of the time. And it seems like the writers are out of fresh ideas, this season premiere was so stale and predictable, and like you said above it didn’t really have enough meat to be a 2 hour episode. 

ITA with this ↑

 

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

All we really know right now is this show is already renewed for one more season. So there is a chance that the writers may be coasting. I hope that is not the case, but the way things are beginning...

I do think NBC will likely try to get to at least S25. Heck, if Dick Wolf had his way, I'd think he'd love to get to S30 and have Olivia as the new Jessica Fletcher (would that make Elliot the Tom Bosley sheriff dude?).

I wish NBC and Dick Wolf believed in ending on a high note, but I think that ship has long since sailed.

We are like season ticket holders to the almost world's worse football (basketball, baseball, pick any sport you want) team that was once very good, yet we attend the games anyway hoping to see flashes from the past.

[preeya]

2 hours ago, dttruman said:

 

We are like season ticket holders to the almost world's worse football (basketball, baseball, pick any sport you want) team that was once very good, yet we attend the games anyway hoping to see flashes from the past.

That's a great analogy.

[TV Diva Queen]

I just got home from NYC and every movie trailer thingy I saw I was looking for Capt Benson. So last night I curl up to the DVR and imagine how ticked off I was to see that they had filmed this episode in the hotel I was staying at!  Marriott Marquis. 

I am happy Kat is gone. She never seemed like a good fit to me. 

6 hours ago, dttruman said:

 

We are like season ticket holders to the almost world's worse football (basketball, baseball, pick any sport you want) team that was once very good, yet we attend the games anyway hoping to see flashes from the past.

The Cubs and Bears are entering the chat rn. No need to field a good team/show when the stands are full. 
 

your post is perfection. 

[853fisher]

I'm sorry he was wasted on the cliche congressman character, but I liked seeing Ben Rappaport.  Has it really been a decade since "Outsourced"?  I would have liked to see more of several actors from that (IMO) misunderstood and underrated show.

Maybe I overthought it, but the details of Velasco undercover as influencer "Q" didn't make sense to me.  How would he have built up the profile described, such that the girls were excited to be involved with specific elements of his work?  I don't think so.

On 9/23/2021 at 10:58 PM, GussieK said:

Gold has always been on the show. Is he going to be gone now?

We've seen the type many times, and the actor a few times in other roles, but I didn't think we'd seen this character before.

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, dttruman said:

 

We are like season ticket holders to the almost world's worse football (basketball, baseball, pick any sport you want) team that was once very good, yet we attend the games anyway hoping to see flashes from the past.

Wow, as someone else said, that is a great - and accurate - analogy.

[wknt3]

14 hours ago, dttruman said:

We are like season ticket holders to the almost world's worse football (basketball, baseball, pick any sport you want) team that was once very good, yet we attend the games anyway hoping to see flashes from the past.

 

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Wow, as someone else said, that is a great - and accurate - analogy.

As a NY Giants fan I find this metaphor triggering. Although it's not quite the same thing since the Giants usually start doing better when the end of the game is in sight...

[WendyCR72]

14 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

 

As a NY Giants fan I find this metaphor triggering. Although it's not quite the same thing since the Giants usually start doing better when the end of the game is in sight...

I know your pain WELL. My dad is a huge New York Giants fan, and he is constantly complaining to me (his only daughter, that hates football! Tell it to my brothers! LOL!) about how bad they are doing whenever he gets in a football mood.

[CrystalBlue]

7 hours ago, 853fisher said:

I'm sorry he was wasted on the cliche congressman character, but I liked seeing Ben Rappaport.  Has it really been a decade since "Outsourced"?  I would have liked to see more of several actors from that (IMO) misunderstood and underrated show.

Maybe I overthought it, but the details of Velasco undercover as influencer "Q" didn't make sense to me.  How would he have built up the profile described, such that the girls were excited to be involved with specific elements of his work?  I don't think so.

We've seen the type many times, and the actor a few times in other roles, but I didn't think we'd seen this character before.

Beats the hay out of me.  I was trying to concentrate on who this new cop is and then he's hanging with chicks calling himself Q.  I guess he's meant to be Kat's replacement?

[853fisher]

1 hour ago, CrystalBlue said:

I was trying to concentrate on who this new cop is and then he's hanging with chicks calling himself Q.  I guess he's meant to be Kat's replacement?

I've heard rumors to that effect but I'm not sure whether it's official.  I hope they add someone for sure, but I would find it a bit lazy if we met a second new detective in a row who started as a peripheral UC officer and just couldn't tear themselves away for the "elite squad."

[tennisgurl]

It is me, or was that last bit with the old school captain and Benson supposed to be some kind of meta commentary? Like the guy represented people who complain about how the show has gotten so political and has focused so much on he said/she said rape cases, while Benson is the writers who are defending themselves? Because if that's the case, at least I can agree with the jerk about the he said/she said cases, which are often some of the most boring episodes this show does. 

It sucks that Kat and Garland are gone, I guess its a budget thing? They need to have some actors on this show don't they? I especially will miss Garland, I have really liked him, and while Kat is very hit or miss for me (like her weird hate on for Carisi) I do think this show needs more than three detectives and she at least had a different energy and I like her and Finn together. Glad that at least she didn't die I guess, but it seems pretty random that this is the thing that makes her quit being a cop, although I guess getting shot will do that. The new guy seems alright, kind of like Kat when she first appeared, although he was pretty over the top for me.

 Carisi can do much better than Rollins, who is an absolute hot mess who will inevitably end up making this relationship into a mess. I am just over the shipper stuff in general, especially totting out the dead horse that is Benson/Stabler to appease shippers who have long since left the show or become the vocal minority.

The case itself was predictable as expected and was really stuffed with too much stuff. The witnesses were being killed left and tight? The teenagers hiding at the drug dealers house and her father is abusive? The guy knocked her up when she was even younger? What is even happening? I also always laugh at how this show is so obvious when it wants us to dislike someone, like giving the guy a bunch of lines about how he wont be stopped by a "woman detective who makes her career attacking men" like they really want us to know this guy is the villain. Is him raping teenagers not enough to make us dislike him? We need to have him make sexist cracks to Benson?