S01.E10: Hostile Witness

[jewel21]

Kate and Jeanette's worlds collide as the court date arrives, finally forcing the two young women to answer the question on everyone's mind, but the answer comes with a price that not everyone can pay.

Airdate: 06/15/2021

[mamadrama]

I'm really nervous. I hope they can deliver. There's a lot to tie up in 1 hour. 

[Spartan Girl]

FUCK that lawyer.

Ugh, Jeanette, you’re seriously sneaking around with Jamie?! Also, Greg acting all nice after treating her like crap for so long makes me roll my eyes so hard.

[BingeyKohan]

How can everybody in this town pronounce Berenice?? I was Cruel Summer years old before I learned to pronounce it!

[childeroland]

As someone who followed the Steve Jobs-forming-NeXT back in the day, I love Kate having a NeXTstation. 😊

[Chicken Wing]

Boom.

[Spartan Girl]

Oh shit.

Damn. Points to everyone that figured out it was Mallory’s bike.

Poor Kate. Bad enough she found out it was Ash posing as her chatroom friend. Now this.

[Anela]

I can’t watch until tomorrow, but I couldn’t resist checking Twitter. I should have upgraded my Hulu for a week, so that I could watch it live.  

[CraftyHazel]

How did I somehow know that Jeanette wasn’t so innocent after all??

[Spartan Girl]

I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!!

When I saw Jeanette milking her newfound fame and saying she was back with Jamie, I knew there was more going on. She did go back and she heard Kate and did nothing. THAT was why she panicked when Kate was found.

The Mallory reveal hurt but she didn’t know it was Kate when she saw her, and even when she found out she didn’t want to tell because it meant spilling the truth about her kidnapping. And she was right about Jeanette. So I’m glad that Kate forgave her.

AND THEY KISSED!!!! Take that, 700 Club!!!!

So even though Jeanette’s a sociopath I’m glad Kate got a happy ending. She deserved it after everything she went through.

Hope Vince and Ben did too. Glad Vince got the line about how scared he was to be Black and gay in Texas.

This was quite a ride. Will eagerly await if they do a new story for season 2.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Chicken Wing]

Well played, show. Well played.

Jeanette was right. She didn't see her that night ... but she did find out she was there. And she looked damn gleeful about it. She is a nutcase, isn't she? Love it.

[BingeyKohan]

The ending was perfect. All those creepy smiles all along were breadcrumbs. 

The deadly shootout thing didn’t seem like the writers playing fair. But it doesn’t affect the overall story that much so I will forgive it.

[tennisgurl]

Well I guess Jeanette did say she never saw Kate....

[Irlandesa]

Jeanette is one of the most fascinating TV characters.  Damn.  And that's why, even though the reveals weren't big or terribly shocking, I felt this was electrifying in a way.  Just the way she said "Kate Wallace, I forgive you" in such a practice and controlled manner was so cool because it's hard to peg her.  Is she fake? Psychotic?  Just a teen?

Congrats to everyone who called that it was Mallory on another bike who Kate saw.  I'm glad it was revealed that Mallory didn't actually know who she saw until after Kate got out.  It makes sense why she didn't want to reveal everything to her.

I kind of guessed that it'd be revealed that maybe Jeanette did see or at least know Kate was in the house.  Martin said the police had come to his house and he just knows they're coming back with a search warrant.  It makes me wonder if Jeanette possibly tipped off the cops and that's what will be revealed in the second season. 

 

[KaveDweller]

Damn, that was a good ending.

I think most of us had predicted a lot of what happened, but it was still nicely done. The only thing that shocked me was the final scene, but I knew there had to be a twist because everything was wrapped up too early. Jeanette really may be a sociopath.

I wonder if the lawyers at least got Kate's family to pay legal fees. No idea why I think about stuff like that.

[Jx223]

In tonight's episodes it seems like a a few things that people speculated on came to be true. Annabelle being a gun, and Mallory possibly being involved somehow. Kate and Jeanette learning that Mallory really saw her on the bike and having understanding/forgiveness between them was a nice moment and up until the very end, it seemed like a happy enough ending for everyone. (Even Mallory was forgiven by Kate). But I did have a feeling they might try and throw an extra twist at the end involving Jeanette.

I had thought that the twist might have been that Jeanette would have named Mallory on the tv show as the person that really saw Kate in a way to punish her for what Jeanette went through. And then Mallory would have to relive what Jeanette went through. But then they had it revealed that Jeanette heard that Kate was in the house at some point in 1994. Jeanette was pretty insistent that she didn't see Kate Wallis, though it was never mentioned prior to tonight that she had heard Kate.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Jx223

[Chicken Wing]

Also, I'm not quite sure how the show expects me to feel about Jeanette getting back with the boy who punched her in the face.

[BingeyKohan]

Back to Jeanette jumping straight to dead body when she heard Kate had been found … umm she thought the gunshot was Kate getting killed? Damn girl.

[meatball77]

So, Jeanette breaks into the house.  She hears Kate, doesn't rescue her but instead phones in a tip.  The police visit but can't search the house.  A gun goes off and Jeanette assumes Martin shot Kate which is why she asked if Kate was dead.  Instead it was Kate who killed Martin then causing her rescue.

Why would have happened if it had gone the other way.  Jeanette lets Kate out and gets to be a hero.  Kate, then because Martin is still alive, proclaiming his love for Kate would have a very different story to tell. 

 

[Jx223]

Since this show was renewed for a second season, I wonder what direction they will go in next season. I wonder if they will keep the same cast and continue on with another story. I had wondered if they do a Desperate Housewives type of situation where it would largely be the same cast (with new characters added) with some outlandish mystery every season. But I think this show is a bit too realistic with that.

So maybe they will keep the same cast and do a different story or make this an anthology series, with possibly a different cast. I could see them possibly going the anthology route.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Jx223

[meatball77]

So, next season takes place in 2000, 2001 and 2002 with a string of unexplained break-ins in town ending in the kidnapping of Kate and Mallorys baby by Jeanette.   We follow how Jeanette grooms this little girl and tells her that her mom's are dead.

Or (and better) new mystery, new season

[Ambrosefolly]

Eh, I wasn't wild about the Mallory/Kate kiss or that last twist. Can't people just be close friends? I've heard some in the LGBT community don't like it when characters turn to homosexual relationships because of trauma.  Also, and I have said it before, considering she had no particular fascination with Martin, why would she keep breaking into it? Was it quasi-safe because he was a school official, but still thrilling enough to keep doing it? I really think she would start breaking into other houses of her dad's business or even other classmates' home. Part of me hopes that Jeanette did call in the anonymous tip. I get she is an opportunist and self-absorbed, but to just leave Kate and go back to Jaime. And Jamie is so not worth it. However, I did like the message they gave about grooming, no matter how mature a teenager seems. 

[tennisgurl]

That was a great finale, there was a lot here that I called already but I admit that I was shocked by that last reveal. After all those creepy smile and weird quirks that I would try to write off as her just being an awkward teen, Jeanette really is a sociopath after all. I kept thinking that the whole thing was a big misunderstanding, and it was...on Christmas Eve anyway. I got really hung up on her doing the "I'm the victim!" performing from way back near the start of the season when she was trying to copy someone else on TV to sound sympathetic, and it turns out that was definitely the bit to pay attention to. She basically repeated Kate's big interview in her victory interview, right down to wearing almost the same outfit and pearls and doing the "I forgive you" ending call back. Chiara Aurelia's smile when she almost touched the door after hearing Kate then pulling back was chilling, she has been giving an amazing performance all season. Olivia Holt is a superstar who has made Kate such an amazingly sympathetic character, but Chiara Auelia's Jeanette is utterly fascinating. 

Kate is a far more forgiving person than I am, I would have been pretty damn pissed at Mallory, even if she really didnt realize what she saw until Kate was already rescued. She did still let Kate continue to tell her "Jeanette saw me" story that ruined Jeanette's life and kept this huge terrible secret from Kate when she felt like she had no one she could trust.  Kudos to everyone who called Mallory as being the one who saw Kate on Christmas and on Annabelle being a gun, I feel like the mystery had enough clues that it was possible to follow along and make guesses without being too obvious. 

I wonder what season two will be like? Will they continue this story or make it an anthology show and focus on another multiple timeline mystery? 

Edited June 16, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Jx223]

2 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

So, next season takes place in 2000, 2001 and 2002 with a string of unexplained break-ins in town ending in the kidnapping of Kate and Mallorys baby by Jeanette.   We follow how Jeanette grooms this little girl and tells her that her mom's are dead.

Or (and better) new mystery, new season

I will miss this cast if they get a new one. But I could see them doing a brand new mystery with possibly a new cast. Though, maybe they could keep at least a couple of characters from this cast around. I just have a feeling they might let this season's story end on tonight's twist. Though, I could be wrong about that and maybe they bring them back and do a new mystery with them. 

[KaveDweller]

2 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Kate is a far more forgiving person than I am, I would have been pretty damn pissed at Mallory, even if she really didnt realize what she saw until Kate was already rescued. She did still let Kate continue to tell her "Jeanette saw me" story that ruined Jeanette's life and kept this huge terrible secret from Kate when she felt like she had no one she could trust.  

Mallory may not have know the story about Jeanette was inaccurate. She knew Jeanette was in the house, so she could have believed the Jeanette did also see Kate.

I hope for season 2 they do a new story. I feel like it may get ruined if they try and do a season 2, unless they do a time jump and have a new story in 1998, 1999, and 2000? But they can't realistically put these people through another trauma, can they?

[Jx223]

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

That was a great finale, there was a lot here that I called already but I admit that I was shocked by that last reveal. After all those creepy smile and weird quirks that I would try to write off as her just being an awkward teen, Jeanette really is a sociopath after all. I kept thinking that the whole thing was a big misunderstanding, and it was...on Christmas Eve anyway. I got really hung up on her doing the "I'm the victim!" performing from way back near the start of the season when she was trying to copy someone else on TV to sound sympathetic, and it turns out that was definitely the bit to pay attention to. She basically repeated Kate's big interview in her victory interview, right down to wearing almost the same outfit and pearls and doing the "I forgive you" ending call back. Chiara Aurelia's smile when she almost touched the door after hearing Kate then pulling back was chilling, she has been giving an amazing performance all season. Olivia Holt is a superstar who has made Kate such an amazingly sympathetic character, but Chiara Auelia's Jeanette is utterly fascinating. 

Kate is a far more forgiving person than I am, I would have been pretty damn pissed at Mallory, even if she really didnt realize what she saw until Kate was already rescued. She did still let Kate continue to tell her "Jeanette saw me" story that ruined Jeanette's life and kept this huge terrible secret from Kate when she felt like she had no one she could trust.  Kudos to everyone who called Mallory as being the one who saw Kate on Christmas and on Annabelle being a gun, I feel like the mystery had enough clues that it was possible to follow along and make guesses without being too obvious. 

I wonder what season two will be like. Will they continue this story or make it an anthology show and focus on another multiple timeline mystery? 

Chiara Aurelia is a very talented young actress. I definitely think that Jeanette is very interesting. I think she is the most interesting character on the show. I had read a few weeks ago that she wasn't sure until later on, how the show would end, and she putting her interpretation on things as she got scripts. I think that the showrunners/writers liked the creepier/more suspicious traits of Jeanette and decided to really lean on that in the end. The showrunner mentioned that they kept thinking about what they wanted to do to make the finale better and came up with that twist about Jeanette.

Here is an interview with her about tonight's episode and choices that were made regarding tonight's finale:

Cruel Summer finale spoilers: Showrunner Tia Napolitano explains that ending | EW.com

Edited June 16, 2021 by Jx223

[Cinnabon]

12 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

That was a great finale, there was a lot here that I called already but I admit that I was shocked by that last reveal. After all those creepy smile and weird quirks that I would try to write off as her just being an awkward teen, Jeanette really is a sociopath after all. I kept thinking that the whole thing was a big misunderstanding, and it was...on Christmas Eve anyway. I got really hung up on her doing the "I'm the victim!" performing from way back near the start of the season when she was trying to copy someone else on TV to sound sympathetic, and it turns out that was definitely the bit to pay attention to. She basically repeated Kate's big interview in her victory interview, right down to wearing almost the same outfit and pearls and doing the "I forgive you" ending call back. Chiara Aurelia's smile when she almost touched the door after hearing Kate then pulling back was chilling, she has been giving an amazing performance all season. Olivia Holt is a superstar who has made Kate such an amazingly sympathetic character, but Chiara Auelia's Jeanette is utterly fascinating. 

Kate is a far more forgiving person than I am, I would have been pretty damn pissed at Mallory, even if she really didnt realize what she saw until Kate was already rescued. She did still let Kate continue to tell her "Jeanette saw me" story that ruined Jeanette's life and kept this huge terrible secret from Kate when she felt like she had no one she could trust.  Kudos to everyone who called Mallory as being the one who saw Kate on Christmas and on Annabelle being a gun, I feel like the mystery had enough clues that it was possible to follow along and make guesses without being too obvious. 

I wonder what season two will be like? Will they continue this story or make it an anthology show and focus on another multiple timeline mystery? 

Would a sociopath have called in the tip, though?

[Anela]

So I was right, when I thought the only real big twist would be that she did know she was there? Although, not if she called in a tip.  It’s not like she could do anything else. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Anela

[Jx223]

11 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Mallory may not have know the story about Jeanette was inaccurate. She knew Jeanette was in the house, so she could have believed the Jeanette did also see Kate.

I hope for season 2 they do a new story. I feel like it may get ruined if they try and do a season 2, unless they do a time jump and have a new story in 1998, 1999, and 2000? But they can't realistically put these people through another trauma, can they?

In the interview with the showrunner posted by EW tonight, it's sounding like maybe they might continue with the same cast. But I agree with you it doesn't seem that realistic for this particular show to put the characters through another trauma. This show does seem more realistic than something like Desperate Housewives, where that was constantly being done and that show could get away with it. That wouldn't feel quite right with this show IMO.

Maybe they will do some sort of continuation with the characters and maybe it will eventually come out that Jeanette did know Kate was in the house. Or maybe they will just bring back a couple of characters and have them be apart of some newer characters mystery. I'm not sure how they will pull things off if they bring back the same cast.  

[TattleTeeny]

I don’t think she’d have called in a tip; I feel like that last scene was meant to tell us that she did knowingly leave Kate there for personal gain and didn’t care. Martin said the cops had been there before and would likely come back, so maybe that’s what happened. Or maybe Kate called. 

What was the date that Kate was found? I forget. If it was during the school year, maybe the school contacted the police when Martin didn’t show up?

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[CraftyHazel]

I don’t think Jeanette called in any tip.  If she wanted to see Kate rescued, it would have been easy enough to save her when she heard her, and let the consequences of being in Martin’s house be damned…after all, she’d be a hero, and the consequences would be minimal at worst.  No, she’s a straight up sociopath, and left Kate there to suffer.

[Cinnabon]

Just now, CraftyHazel said:

I don’t think Jeanette called in any tip.  If she wanted to see Kate rescued, it would have been easy enough to save her when she heard her, and let the consequences of being in Martin’s house be damned…after all, she’d be a hero, and the consequences would be minimal at worst.  No, she’s a straight up sociopath, and left Kate there to suffer.

IF she called in the tip right after she heard her, I don’t blame her for not wanting to admit she broke in. But that’s a big if. We don’t know if she called it in or not.

[Chicken Wing]

5 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

What was the date that Kate was found? I forget. If it was during the school year, maybe the school contacted the police when Martin didn’t show up?

It was June 21, 1994.

I too wonder who called the cops to Martin's house, because I agree it seems unlikely it was Jeanette. On the one hand, if she wanted to do the right thing, calling an anonymous tip would avoid her having to admit that she found out by breaking into the man's house. On the other hand, her scared reaction in the first episode when she learned that Kate had been found alive didn't seem like that of a person who had initiated that rescue.

I'm glad we got some explanations for things, though. Jeanette's reaction, for one. Now it makes sense why she seemed scared. She did know Kate was there, after all. She didn't see her, but she's terrified that maybe Kate found out that she had been there. Also, the single gunshot vs the media saying Martin was killed in a shootout. Since when does a shootout involving police have just one shot? I'm glad they addressed that and said the media just assumed that's what happened because he'd been shot and police were there. (Although realistically, I think that initial media report would have been cleared up by the police pretty straight away, but whatever, tv.)

Edited June 16, 2021 by Chicken Wing

[Irlandesa]

28 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

Why would have happened if it had gone the other way.  Jeanette lets Kate out and gets to be a hero.  Kate, then because Martin is still alive, proclaiming his love for Kate would have a very different story to tell.

Jeanette really wanted to keep the fact that she was going into Martin's house a secret but yeah, I do wonder if she was trying to think of a way to save Kate and be the hero all at once. 

19 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Eh, I wasn't wild about the Mallory/Kate kiss or that last twist. Can't people just be close friends? I've heard some in the LGBT community don't like it when characters turn to homosexual relationships because of trauma..

Right.  I don't know what to make of that kiss.  I do wonder if she's mistaking the intimacy of that friendship for something more.  At the same time, there definitely felt like there were times where they almost kissed.  And she definitely seemed much freer than she had in the past. 

Quote

so, and I have said it before, considering she had no particular fascination with Martin, why would she keep breaking into it? Was it quasi-safe because he was a school official, but still thrilling enough to keep doing it?

I think it's because she had the key and probably did know when he wasn't home for the most part.

5 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

What was the date that Kate was found? I forget. If it was during the school year, maybe the school contacted the police when Martin didn’t show up?

It was in June so probably after the school year.  He'd probably still be working during the summer but I don't know that the cops would be sent.  I also don't know why he wouldn't keep going to work. 

7 minutes ago, Jx223 said:

But I agree with you it doesn't seem that realistic for this particular show to put the characters through another trauma.

I proposed potentially having the same characters, just with bigger time jumps (which would involved hiring older actors).  But I mostly agree.  I do think there are some threads they could take up with a new season; it'd be easier to actually fill a season with new characters/cast.

[KaveDweller]

If Jeanette called in a tip, couldn't she have said that right after she was accused of seeing Kate and not saying anything? Like, she could say, "I did know she was there and that's why I called in a tip on such and such date." If she didn't call from home she could have said what phone she used and the cops would have been able to verify when they got a call and what number it came from.  

However, I do wonder why the cops would have been investigating Martin if they hadn't gotten a tip though, or why he'd be so convinced they could get a warrant. Why would they suddenly come to Martin's house a year after Kate went missing?

The one thing we don't know is when in 1994 that scene of Jeanette breaking in was. It sounded like it must have been soon after Kate was locked in.

[tennisgurl]

15 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Would a sociopath have called in the tip, though?

If she did call in the tip then probably not, but I think that if she wanted to help Kate, she would have helped here right there, tried to open the door or talk to her through the door or called the cops right away, not just starred at the door while giving a creepy smile. She could have called it in later if she thought that she could help Kate without getting in trouble, but then why wait to do it? Why not do it right away and be a hero for saving Kate, which would certainly wave away any possibility of her breaking and entering? Jeannette might not be a full sociopath, and I think she was telling the truth when she talked about how she so badly wanted to be seen as pretty and cool and wanted, but it looks like she really did deliberately decide to leave Kate in the basement so that she could keep on living her It Girl life without worrying about the old It Girl coming back again. I don't know how Martin became a suspect, but there are plenty of reasons to suspect him without a tip being called. Its not impossible that Jeanette did feel bad and call the cops later, but given her frightened reaction to finding out that Kate was found alive and that eerily happy smile on her face when she heard Kate, it seems like she really did leave Kate to her fate so that she could keep on living her best Kate Wallis life. 

[Cinnabon]

21 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

It was June 21, 1994.

I too wonder who called the cops to Martin's house, because I agree it seems unlikely it was Jeanette. On the one hand, if she wanted to do the right thing, calling an anonymous tip would avoid her having to admit that she found out by breaking into the man's house. On the other hand, her scared reaction in the first episode when she learned that Kate had been found alive didn't seem like that of a person who had initiated that rescue.

I'm glad we got some explanations for things, though. Jeanette's reaction, for one. Now it makes sense why she seemed scared. She did know Kate was there, after all. She didn't see her, but she's terrified that maybe Kate found out that she had been there. Also, the single gunshot vs the media saying Martin was killed in a shootout. Since when does a shootout involving police have just one shot? I'm glad they addressed that and said the media just assumed that's what happened because he'd been shot and police were there. (Although realistically, I think that initial media report would have been cleared up by the police pretty straight away, but whatever, tv.)

Yes, the part about the “shootout” was weak writing and made no sense. The true story would absolutely have quickly come out.

20 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

If Jeanette called in a tip, couldn't she have said that right after she was accused of seeing Kate and not saying anything? Like, she could say, "I did know she was there and that's why I called in a tip on such and such date." If she didn't call from home she could have said what phone she used and the cops would have been able to verify when they got a call and what number it came from.  

However, I do wonder why the cops would have been investigating Martin if they hadn't gotten a tip though, or why he'd be so convinced they could get a warrant. Why would they suddenly come to Martin's house a year after Kate went missing?

The one thing we don't know is when in 1994 that scene of Jeanette breaking in was. It sounded like it must have been soon after Kate was locked in.

She was locked in on Christmas and Jeannette broke in wearing a summer dress.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

10 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

If she did call in the tip then probably not, but I think that if she wanted to help Kate, she would have helped here right there, tried to open the door or talk to her through the door or called the cops right away, not just starred at the door while giving a creepy smile. She could have called it in later if she thought that she could help Kate without getting in trouble, but then why wait to do it? Why not do it right away and be a hero for saving Kate, which would certainly wave away any possibility of her breaking and entering? Jeannette might not be a full sociopath, and I think she was telling the truth when she talked about how she so badly wanted to be seen as pretty and cool and wanted, but it looks like she really did deliberately decide to leave Kate in the basement so that she could keep on living her It Girl life without worrying about the old It Girl coming back again. I don't know how Martin became a suspect, but there are plenty of reasons to suspect him without a tip being called. Its not impossible that Jeanette did feel bad and call the cops later, but given her frightened reaction to finding out that Kate was found alive and that eerily happy smile on her face when she heard Kate, it seems like she really did leave Kate to her fate so that she could keep on living her best Kate Wallis life. 

Sometimes selfish, stupid teenage behavior looks like sociopathy.

[Ambrosefolly]

12 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

If she did call in the tip then probably not, but I think that if she wanted to help Kate, she would have helped here right there, tried to open the door or talk to her through the door or called the cops right away, not just starred at the door while giving a creepy smile. She could have called it in later if she thought that she could help Kate without getting in trouble, but then why wait to do it? Why not do it right away and be a hero for saving Kate, which would certainly wave away any possibility of her breaking and entering? Jeannette might not be a full sociopath, and I think she was telling the truth when she talked about how she so badly wanted to be seen as pretty and cool and wanted, but it looks like she really did deliberately decide to leave Kate in the basement so that she could keep on living her It Girl life without worrying about the old It Girl coming back again. I don't know how Martin became a suspect, but there are plenty of reasons to suspect him without a tip being called. Its not impossible that Jeanette did feel bad and call the cops later, but given her frightened reaction to finding out that Kate was found alive and that eerily happy smile on her face when she heard Kate, it seems like she really did leave Kate to her fate so that she could keep on living her best Kate Wallis life. 

I'll admit, I want Jeanette to be a better person, and it is too sociopathic to just leave someone in the basement. And Kate's life, with her shitty friends and insecure boyfriend, wasn't that great. (but Jeanette, admittedly, is superficial and didn't care about their character). The only one worth a damn is Ben, and he was dating her best friend. I am not including Kate's abusive mother and normal dad because she didn't replace Kate as their daughter. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Ambrosefolly

[ZeeEnnui]

10 minutes ago, CraftyHazel said:

I don’t think Jeanette called in any tip.  If she wanted to see Kate rescued, it would have been easy enough to save her when she heard her, and let the consequences of being in Martin’s house be damned…after all, she’d be a hero, and the consequences would be minimal at worst.  No, she’s a straight up sociopath, and left Kate there to suffer.

Agreed. Jeanette had to copy a victim on a legal show to act like a sympathetic witness. She has to create a fiction -- calling in a tip -- to make her story believable. Hell, Dexter would do that - what would a normal person do and say? I've said it all along, Jeanette Turner is not right, and the show delivered that. Jeanette wanted to the spotlight, to be Kate Wallis, and calling in the tip and being the big hero would have done that for her. She would have not only saved the day but Kate would have been grateful -- we saw in 1993 how desperately Jeanette wanted to be her friend #RedScrunchyCreeper -- and Jamie wouldn't have slapped the shit out of her. However, I don't think she called in the tip because it wasn't advantageous to her. Kate would remain out of her way (maybe for good), and Jeanette would be queen B like Cindy wanted. Would she make the choice in 1995 after everything that happened to her? I think she would. Sociopaths don't suddenly stop.

Annabelle was the gun?!? That was not on my Bingo card. But the traumatic response in therapy, and the missing memories make sense now. It was such a gut punch when Kate said "I'm the bad guy." Where is her therapist popping in to say, Girl, NO. And then I had another visceral reaction when Kate said that Jeanette was a "victim." Of being railroaded by media, sure but as we learned, Jeanette was no victim. 

If you think about it, an older Jeanette and Martin Harris would have been a perfect couple made in Norman Bates heaven. 

As for the "kiss" I'm not sure that I see it as romantic. At least from Kate's perspective. It felt like relief to me, like she was caught up in the moment and the music.

Also, if Jeanette is really back with Jamie then Greg is a bigger puss than I already thought. First off, if someone hits you, then that should be the end of it. But if a boy hit me, I can guarantee my parents would never have let me near that guy again. Ever. 

I'm disappointed that Kate didn't go for a knockout dramatic round with her stepsister. Pretending to be a victim on a message board was such an unbelievably misguided betrayal, I felt like it was a missed opportunity for this show. 

 

 

 

[TattleTeeny]

I don’t think being afraid of getting in trouble would be her reason for not calling the police; the smile indicates, to me, that she was basically pleased to know that Kate would not likely be back to reclaim her life — not that NOT helping someone out of a locked basement for fear of getting in trouble is that much less “sociopathic” than not helping because you want a perceived rival out of your way.

Edited June 16, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[Jx223]

Regarding Jeanette possibly calling in a tip, I saw a couple of people speculate elsewhere, that her smile was her thinking she was going to be the hero by rescuing Kate. If I hadn't read that interview with the showrunner, I would have maybe considered a possibility that Jeanette was smiling because she was going to help Kate. But maybe Martin showed up right before she did and she had to get out of the house, before he saw her.

Maybe that could have been a few days before Kate was rescued and Jeanette would could have struggled over what to do in that short time, before she was rescued. But the showrunner made it seem like she deliberately let Kate stay in the basement and there doesn't seem to be much that can be done to make Jeanette look less unfavorable when it comes to that particular issue. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Jx223

[LittleIggy]

I figured it was Kate who shot Martin. After all, we had the Chekhov’s skeet shooting weekend that showed she knew how to handle firearms. Of course, like the whole “shoot-out” story, why wouldn’t the police have cleared that up? Nobody else could have shot him.

[Blue Plastic]

8 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

I figured it was Kate who shot Martin. After all, we had the Chekhov’s skeet shooting weekend that showed she knew how to handle firearms. Of course, like the whole “shoot-out” story, why wouldn’t the police have cleared that up? Nobody else could have shot him.

Yeah, that's one of the bigger unexplained plot threads.  Not sure if we're supposed to assume that the Wallises threatened the police into keeping silent on how Martin actually died.

I wanted to see Joy's reaction to all the revelations and a scene with Kate and Ashley after the Berenice reveal.

So did they show the basement floor when Jeanette went down there and Vincent followed her?  That bloodstain would have had to be there then.  Ugh, creepy.  What was Jeanette actually doing there that day, relishing the thought of Kate being locked up there?

[Jx223]

22 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

I figured it was Kate who shot Martin. After all, we had the Chekhov’s skeet shooting weekend that showed she knew how to handle firearms. Of course, like the whole “shoot-out” story, why wouldn’t the police have cleared that up? Nobody else could have shot him.

 

7 minutes ago, Blue Plastic said:

Yeah, that's one of the bigger unexplained plot threads.  Not sure if we're supposed to assume that the Wallises threatened the police into keeping silent on how Martin actually died.

I wanted to see Joy's reaction to all the revelations and a scene with Kate and Ashley after the Berenice reveal.

So did they show the basement floor when Jeanette went down there and Vincent followed her?  That bloodstain would have had to be there then.  Ugh, creepy.  What was Jeanette actually doing there that day, relishing the thought of Kate being locked up there?

The shootout story was a bit odd. The police would have discovered that Martin had been dead for hours before Kate called them and figured out the truth. Maybe the police were friends with Kate's family and that factored into them keeping the part of her killing Martin secret. It could have been a combination of that and them having sympathy for her and all that she had endured at Martin's hands. 

[Cinnabon]

31 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I'll admit, I want Jeanette to be a better person, and it is too sociopathic to just leave someone in the basement. And Kate's life, with her shitty friends and insecure boyfriend, wasn't that great. (but Jeanette, admittedly, is superficial and didn't care about their character). The only one worth a damn is Ben, and he was dating her best friend. I am not including Kate's abusive mother and normal dad because she didn't replace Kate as their daughter. 

But we don’t know if she called in the tip or not. 

[Ambrosefolly]

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

But we don’t know if she called in the tip or not. 

I am hoping she did.

[Irlandesa]

58 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Jeannette might not be a full sociopath

I wonder if she's a sociopath wannabe.  Like part of her wanted to leave Kate but I wouldn't be surprised if she changed her mind later.  However, people might wonder why she didn't call right away. 

Jeanette's not right.  But she's not 100% wrong either.  That's why she fascinates me.

[Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I wonder if she's a sociopath wannabe.  Like part of her wanted to leave Kate but I wouldn't be surprised if she changed her mind later.  However, people might wonder why she didn't call right away. 

Jeanette's not right.  But she's not 100% wrong either.  That's why she fascinates me.

As I said, selfish teen behavior is often sociopathic. That doesn’t mean they are actual sociopaths (a clinical term.)

Kate’s lies were huge and self serving, too. She told everyone Martin drugged her in the car and she woke in locked in his basement!

[RachelKM]

15 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

The one thing we don't know is when in 1994 that scene of Jeanette breaking in was. It sounded like it must have been soon after Kate was locked in.

As noted above, Jeanette was wearing a summer dress (very similar in color and style to the one Kate wore on the day they met in the mall, natch #SWF). 

I'm ambivalent about the twist with Jeanette finding out Kate was in the basement. I prefer people to be more grey and this seemed straight up malignant sociopath territory.  Jeanette was creepy enough with her burglaries, lying, creeper emulating, and status jacking.  She could still been a bit of a sociopath (not all sociopaths commit life threatening harm*) without the depraved indifference to human life. 

That said, I don't believe that Jeanette called in the tip because 1) She would have wanted to play up the hero thing even if she wasn't accused of anything and 2) it would have been a direct counter to the accusations. But it feels unlikely that, after months of no information and no apparent suspicion, the cops suddenly had an epiphany that they should look into the new vice principal.

*This message does not advocate for a #NotAllSociopaths  - mutherfuckers do plenty of other harms and are still nightmare humans in relationships.

15 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

As for the "kiss" I'm not sure that I see it as romantic. At least from Kate's perspective. It felt like relief to me, like she was caught up in the moment and the music.

I had the same thought. Girls kissing in platonic relationships is not that unusual.  And there were no indications that either of them were having a romantic moment or realization. It seemed more spontaneous joy and they continued dancing like nothing happened.

At first I was pissed that Mallory never came forward about seeing Kate to clear Jeanette.  But it occurred to me that Mallory was well aware of Jeanette's fascination with Martin's house and Kate said it happened when she was in the basement.  It is conceivable that Mallory thought Jeanette seeing Kate happened on another occasion.  Seeing someone distressed and in a basement is a far cry from catching a glimpse of a woman freely moving about a home. 

I was right about the gun shot being Martin getting shot and dying and Kate being in shock. It was pointed out that Kate was rescued the following day and the TV reports showed it to be daylight. But Kate shooting him and then being paralyzed after made sense.... minus the "shootout" mislead. Note to show: You could have just said that he was shot during the rescue as a mislead and it would have worked to imply he cops were the shooters without a completely false mislead that in reality would have been cleared up in a hot minute with a press conference. 

I am still confused, however, but the fact that Kate's story was that "someone found [her]" when she apparently called the cops herself.  Even thinking the shot could have been Martin being shot, I assumed from that statement that someone called in the gun shot and it simply took a while for the house to be search and Kate found. Why not just have her say on the stand that she had been able to call the cops? 

Nice catch to those who remembered about the bike switch! I like how little details mattered episodes later.  However, WTF with violating Checkhov's Gun principle with Jamie's gun in the glove compartment.  It could have at least been explained that he had it there as a(n idiotic) plan to protect her while he sat stalker vigil.

 

And even though it was a repeat, I didn't get a picture the first time. So, I bring you tonight's 700 Club intro:

Edited June 16, 2021 by RachelKM