Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (2022)

[johntfs]

On 5/8/2022 at 8:51 PM, Proclone said:

I just got back from seeing this and I kind of disappointed. In a vacuum, I'd probably like it. I know other people weren't really a fan, but I didn't mind Dr. Strange as a horror movie.  I actually like that several Marvel movies are other genres as well as being superhero movies.  And overall I felt like the performances were strong.

What I really didn't like about it, was what they did to Wanda.  It seems like the film ignores pretty much all her character growth...Especially in light of the events of WandaVision.  In the series, she learned how much she was letting her grief hurt those around her and she seemed to make some level of peace in letting Vision, Billy and Tommy go.  This movie just ignores all that (despite referencing the events of the show), and makes her willing to murder to get to the boys back. I also thought it was strange (no pun intended) that Vision wasn't really mentioned in all this.  There has to be a universe with Billy, Tommy and Vision all together, right? I mean the obvious answer is they couldn't get or didn't want to use Paul Bettany for some reason, but his absence on screen and more importantly as a lack of motive for Wanda seemed to make little sense, since she enslaved a town over her grief for him. 

The character of Wanda that we've been presented to over all these movies, does not strike me as someone who's willing to murder in cold blood, especially not murder a teenage girl who has powers she can't control and who Wanda might see herself in, for purely selfish reasons. It was even a plot point in WandaVision that she wasn't really aware of all the pain she was causing.  And she did let the townspeople go when she realized it. Hell, Strange himself, points this out in the movie.

It's kind of character assignation to make her the straight up villain, even if they did keep her sympathetic. And frankly it's just poor writing. Character arcs should arc, having characters constantly revert or backslide and forget all the lessons they've learned, isn't particularly satisfying. And the funny thing is, they could have kept Wanda as the villain without it.  The easiest way was to continue from the after credits of WandaVision.  They show Wanda hear the boys cry for help.  I can't see Wanda murdering a girl simply to make herself feel better, but to protect her children, yeah I can see Wanda doing what she did in the film.  Just make it explicit that she trying to find the Billy and Tommy that were crying out for her, that she thinks are serious danger.  That makes her way more sympathetic.  She's not a villain who willing to sacrifice people for her own gain, she's a misguided mother out to protect her kids.

They also simply could have made this a Wanda from another universe. One that experienced Billy and Tommy but didn't learn the lessons of Westview.  Perhaps this one didn't even have a Vision or something else happened to him (perhaps he's hiding the children from her) and that's why she's not gung-ho about being with him too. Simply have America accidently bring this other Wanda into our universe. 

I don't follow entertainment news enough to know if this was the end of Olsen's contract with Marvel.  If it was, I'm very disappointed with how they chose to end the character. Even if it's not her last appearance as Wanda or the Scarlett Witch, I'm disappointed in what they chose to do with the character and how they chose to ignore her emotional growth.

At the very end of WandaVision we see Wanda, in astral form, studying the Darkhold when she hears her children calling to her for help.  So we know (or should know) that at that point the evil book is screwing with her mind and tempting her. 

The horrible truth is that Wanda did learn the lessons of Westview.  It's why she was studying the Darkhold in the first place.  She wanted to get full, conscious control of her power so something like Westview wouldn't happen again.

We've talked about "What If?"  Here's one.  "What If Thanos obtained all six Infinity Stones and used them to become a superhero?"  What "supervillain" could be any kind of challenge to "Super-Thanos?" 

That's the situation we have with Scarlet Witch.  As of the start of the movie there's no power that can really compete with or challenge her.  We see what happens to those who try ("What mouth?")  In the end the only person who can stop the Scarlet Witch is herself.

But even if the Scarlet Witch is truly dead, Wanda, at least a Wanda, lives on.  And there's plenty of story space to explore for that character. 

[Bruinsfan]

On 5/6/2022 at 12:31 AM, dmeets said:

Mordo was underused and completely pointless. What about 616’s Mordo from the first movie? Is he still out there stealing magic from those he deems unworthy?

Strange had a line about Mordo trying to kill him (repeatedly?), so the 616 version clearly committed to his heel turn and became a Dr. Strange villain off camera through the years.

On 5/6/2022 at 10:15 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Just curious, do you also think Clint should be in prison for his crimes? I will admit that I chose not to watch the Disney+ Hawkeye show due to the trailers really not showing Clint being held accountable for what he got up to in the five years between Infinity War and Endgame.  Clint spent five years travelling the world dispensing his own form of justice onto anyone he felt did not deserve to live while his wife and kids disappeared, and in the end was allowed to return to being a family man.  Are we supposed to believe that everyone he killed was guilty and he never killed someone who was innocent?

Not the person you asked, but I think Clint should be in prison for the people he murdered even if everyone he killed was guilty. He had no right to be their executioner.

On 5/7/2022 at 8:35 PM, Enigma X said:

I admit that I may have missed something in the overall Marvel lore, but has it been explained why Wanda or Agatha never grew a third eye? Is it because they are witches?

I think the third eye is inspired by this sequence from an Illuminati/Incursion story featuring Strange. It's not specifically Darkhold-related in the comics, just a visual signifier of Strange being corrupted by using powerful black magic.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Bruinsfan

[BaggythePanther]

11 hours ago, johntfs said:

At the very end of WandaVision we see Wanda, in astral form, studying the Darkhold when she hears her children calling to her for help.  So we know (or should know) that at that point the evil book is screwing with her mind and tempting her. 

I think the keyword is “should know”. When I first saw the scene I took it at face value that Wanda had discovered real versions of her kids in the multiverse and they were calling out for help. So it felt like there was this big offscreen development where Wanda skipped from finding a way to rescue her kids to just kidnapping someone else’s.

I’ve seen Agents of SHIELD so I’m familiar with the effects of the Darkhold and she was in isolation for around a year and a half (which can also be tough), so I bought her as a villain, but I can see why others thought it was a leap.

[johntfs]

Am I an asshole for wondering why Strange never asked Wanda, "I know you want your children, but do they have to be versions of those specific children?  I mean, figure there's a whole bunch of cute kids right here on this world that would really like to get adopted by a loving super-witch goddess mom."

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

Am I an asshole for wondering why Strange never asked Wanda, "I know you want your children, but do they have to be versions of those specific children?  I mean, figure there's a whole bunch of cute kids right here on this world that would really like to get adopted by a loving super-witch goddess mom."

I don't think it would matter. It comes back to Wong's question to Wanda about why take America's power when she could have just asked America to take her to another Dimension where her kids were. Same with what she planned for the Wanda in that reality.

I think at that point the Darkhold had corrupted her so fully it didn't matter.

Now I have another question.  Was 800 (don't remember the number) Universe Wanda and her kids living in Westview? I saw that comment on Twitter and it didn't even occur to me that Wanda Variant had done the same as 616 Wanda.

[scarynikki12]

It's possible that Mom Wanda never held Westview hostage. For all we know she and her Vision found a way to procreate before their Infinity War, Vis died in battle, Thanos was defeated before acquiring the stones, and then she takes the boys to live in Westview legitimately rather than with magical possession. Or maybe her world ran closely parallel to ours but after their Endgame she was able to bury Vision, mourn him properly, and then her chaos magic just created the boys rather than a tv inspired reality. 

[arc]

In "Rick and Morty", one time after a catastrophe, Rick took the two of them to a neighboring universe where the local versions of R&M died moments before they arrived, so they could neatly and secretly swap right in and there was no need to murder their local counterparts. (I mention this in part because Waldron had been a writer on R&M.)

Anyways, I can see why they didn't do this, and given that the whole thing with America is that her control of her powers was haphazard, it made sense. But still, a shame for Wanda not to find a universe where she could just replace an accidentally dead Wanda with clean hands.

[tv echo]

Interview: Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Writer Michael Waldron
Julia Delbel   May 12, 2022
https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/features/1221617-doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-writer-michael-waldron-interview 

Quote

Julia Delbel: So I think one of the biggest things in this Multiverse of Madness movie has been Wanda, and I think a lot of people, especially women who are watching WandaVision and seeing themselves, loving the story of mental health and healing that it’s told, and then get into this movie, and are a little thrown off by the villainous turn. What is it though that made this storyline, the next natural step for this character in your eyes?

Michael Waldron: Well, I think that I definitely didn’t want to ignore everything in WandaVision. I’m a huge fan of that, and I thought it was a beautiful story about Wanda making mistakes without even realizing she was making mistakes as she was trying to reckon with her own grief. At the end of that, she learns who she really is in a whole new way. She’s given the Darkhold and she’s told the truth about her destiny is the Scarlet Witch, but that doesn’t erase her trauma, her grief, or anything. You know, she does the right thing at the end of WandaVision, but I don’t think she’s healed at the end of that show. She just releases the townspeople and leaves, and we see her at the end of that show reading from the Darkhold, and the Darkhold is the book of the Damned, it’s an evil book.

I think that when it gets its hooks in you, it might prey on your strongest desires and the weakest parts of yourself. I think that’s what pushes Wanda to a place where she’s willing to do bad things to get what she wants. But I believe in our movie, she always has a defensible position, which is, as she says, America’s not a child, she’s a supernatural being. She’s a walking multiversal portal. Who knows what that could pull in, that’s one defense she has. She says to Stephen, “You break the rules and become a hero. I do it and I become the enemy,” and they push her and they push her, and I think they push her to her brink. She does bad stuff, and it’s sad and I hate it. I hate to see heroes that I love do bad things, but I think it felt like an honest evolution of the character.

Marvel Studios’ Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | The Importance of Being Benedict
Marvel Entertainment    May 12, 2022

Edited May 13, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

'Doctor Strange' Writer on the Sequel's Cameos and Why They Didn't Want to Introduce Mutants (Exclusive)
By Stacy Lambe‍  May 12, 2022
https://www.etonline.com/doctor-strange-writer-on-the-sequels-cameos-and-why-they-didnt-want-to-introduce-mutants-exclusive 

Quote

Speaking of Wanda, obviously the film ends in a way that the Scarlet Witch’s story and character seemingly has come to an end. When you wrote that final scene, what were you thinking about in terms of Wanda’s storyline and what this meant for the character potentially going beyond this film?
[Michael Waldron:] Well, I was thinking that was that moment that Wanda’s finally breaking free of the Darkhold. But also, because she is, if not a hero, she is a real adult taking responsibility. As she says, “I opened the Darkhold. I have to close it.” So, she takes responsibility for what she’s done and she makes a sacrifice to destroy the Darkhold not just in our universe, but in every universe because she’s seen what it did to her and what it’s done and we’ve seen what it’s done to other versions of Stephen. And in doing that, she’s really protecting the multiverse and protecting other Wanda Maximoffs across the multiverse. 

So, I thought it was a powerful, final gesture for her in this movie. What that means for the future remains to be seen.
*  *  *
With that said, I think a lot of people were going into this, especially after WandaVision, looking for a conclusion to the House of M saga that a lot of people applied to what was happening with Wanda.  Did you guys discuss that at all? You know, the whole “no more mutants” moment and how or if that was going to actually be featured here and what that would mean for the X-Men in the MCU? 
Yeah, we talked about House of M, and there’s plenty of examples of Wanda doing bad things throughout the comics in an effort to get her kids back. But ultimately this story didn’t need mutants to be powerful, I guess was our feeling. And, you know, wherever that lies on the timeline for the MCU, it didn’t feel like this was the right place to introduce it -- because then it suddenly would have just been about mutants. And this is really a story about Wanda and her grief and her descent into darkness in this movie. 

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Writer Michael Waldron on Wanda's Heel Turn
By Adam Bankhurst, Francesca Rivera    May 12, 2022
https://www.ign.com/articles/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-writer-michael-waldron-on-wandas-heel-turn 

Quote

“I don't know,” Waldron said when asked if Captain Carter was the same character we saw in Marvel’s What If…?. “I'm reticent to canonize that either way. I hope not. I hope that's not the one. That'd be too bad.”

The Daunting Task of ‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ as the Direct Sequel to Multiple Marvel Properties
BY CHRISTINE DINH  MAY 12, 2022
https://www.marvel.com/articles/movies/doctor-strange-multiverse-of-madness-direct-sequel-to-multiple-marvel-properties 

Quote

Speaking to Marvel.com, film director Sam Raimi shared, “It’s a great Marvel comic book tradition to have a story with Doctor Strange and Wanda Maximoff and another character, and then have a Marvel team-up where the individual threads come together into a much bigger issue. And by issue, I mean a comic book issue, and that’s what happened here.”

“Marvel tells so many stories simultaneously; this is one of the junctures where they all come together,” continued Raimi. “It was very exciting because I really liked what Elizabeth Olsen had done with Wanda and the Scarlet Witch, and I love what Benedict Cumberbatch had done with Doctor Strange, and to see them come together on-screen was really cool. They bring their own dynamics, so they clash and the meeting between them is a lot of fun to watch.”
*  *  *
As for writer Michael Waldron, on the balancing act, he admitted to Marvel.com, “It wasn’t easy!”

“We tried to, first and foremost, just say, ‘OK, what is the Doctor Strange story that we want to tell?’ We landed on what felt like the most fulfilling arc for Stephen Strange for us,” explained Waldron. “Then, we went back to all those other things and said, ‘Now are there opportunities within the way these projects are proceeding to boost our story?’ WandaVision, especially with Wanda, it’s almost a direct sequel.”

Elizabeth Olsen Takes a Lie Detector Test | Vanity Fair
Vanity Fair   May 13, 2022

Marvel Studios’ Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | Thrill
Marvel Entertainment   May 13, 2022

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by tv echo

[johntfs]

On 5/12/2022 at 5:02 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't think it would matter. It comes back to Wong's question to Wanda about why take America's power when she could have just asked America to take her to another Dimension where her kids were. Same with what she planned for the Wanda in that reality.

I think at that point the Darkhold had corrupted her so fully it didn't matter.

Now I have another question.  Was 800 (don't remember the number) Universe Wanda and her kids living in Westview? I saw that comment on Twitter and it didn't even occur to me that Wanda Variant had done the same as 616 Wanda.

We're not specifically told but probably not.  Presumably in that universe and a bunch of other ones, Ultron decided to give his Vision a functional penis and testicles.  Or Vision got turned into a "real boy." 

[tv echo]

Edited May 15, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The Illuminati World in Doctor Strange Is Even Darker Than It Seems
BY ANTHONY BREZNICAN   MAY 12, 2022
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/05/doctor-strange-secrets-illuminati

Quote

[Screenwriter Michael] Waldron explores that [Illuminati] story line, Charlize Theron’s closing-credits cameo as the Dark Dimension sorcerer Clea, the late choice to include America Chavez’s missing moms, and much more in his new interview with Vanity Fair.
*  *  *
Vanity Fair: This movie has given us the Illuminati and Charlize Theron as Clea, and you’ve introduced Xochitl Gomez as America Chavez. How much of that is you pushing the boundaries and how much is it Marvel Studios saying, “These are the toys you can play with”?
Michael Waldron: It’s a combination of the two. There is the Marvel wishlist of, ‘We want to introduce America Chavez in this movie and Wanda Maximoff is going to be in this movie.’ It was the same way with Loki [the Disney+ series Waldron created]. Beyond that, it was up to me and Sam Raimi [director of Doctor Strange 2] and our creative team. We had a lot of freedom. In some ways with a movie like this it’s daunting because it’s like, where do you start? 

One of the mysteries we’re left with at the end is what has become of America Chavez’s mothers? We see a memory of her opening up a rip in dimensions, and her mothers vanish into it, but their fate is not resolved. Is that an example of collaboration between you, the brain trust at Marvel, and perhaps other writers and storytellers, since you’re setting up something that others might resolve later?
Yeah, that’s definitely me collaborating with Marvel and with Sam. Really, that is as much about trying to drive America’s story in this film, as it is attempting to set up a mystery to be solved in the future. She’s somebody without a family. That’s what she’s searching for. And that’s what she finds—surprisingly—in our Doctor Strange and Wong. She finds a home in Kamar-Taj at the end. When it’s all said and done, it looks kind of tidy. We also set up the next chapter in the America Chavez story.
*  *  *
That adds a new perspective to Dimension 838.
838 is a little more of a police state, a little more Orwellian than our universe. Maybe this Memory Lane thing isn’t as innocent as it seems. I don’t know how much of that translates on the screen, but wait for the novelization. I’ll go deep into that.

The dimension is overseen by the Illuminati and this is the first we’re hearing about them in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Do they exist in other dimensions? Are they in the prime dimension of 616 where most of the movies are set?
Not that we know of. I guess they could. Maybe. But not so far as we know. They only exist in 838.
*  *  *
That’s the shocker, right? You’ve given us these characters and then take them away quickly. Did you have any concern of people misunderstanding that this is just one group of characters in one dimension—that you’re not actually killing their favorites forever?
On the one hand that’s true. It’s a multiverse. Maybe there are alternate versions of all these characters that exist elsewhere. On the other hand, maybe not. You don’t want to fall into the multiverse trap where everything is robbed of its stakes because anybody can be brought back to life or found again. That’s the tight rope you have to walk.
*  *  *
What can you tell me about introducing Charlize Theron as Clea for a mid-credits cameo? Clea is royalty from the Dark Dimension, and in the comics she and Strange have an intense relationship. She shows up and pulls him out of his world for a story we will see some other day. 
I was thrilled to introduce her as Clea. Clea has been Strange’s counterpart in the comics for a long time. She’s an amazing sorcerer. She’s also his great love; she’s his wife at one point. We had to conclude his story with Christine Palmer—Rachel McAdams’s character—first, and at the end of that Strange walks away with this wisdom. He’s been able to face his fears and not be afraid to love somebody or let somebody love him. I think that’s the perfect place for him to be mentally to finally meet Clea, who’s gonna be a really important figure in his life moving forward.

Sometimes those post-credit moments happen very late in the process. Was that the case here?
I think we cast Charlize before we even knew exactly what we were gonna do. Then we settled on our ending of the third eye opening, the bill coming due for Strange, and you get your Sleepaway Camp-esque ending—the oh-my-God ending.

There’s a little bit of (500) Days of Summer there, right? Christine changes his life, but isn’t part of it permanently. At the very end, he meets someone else who might be…
Except he’s got the third eye!

Tell me about the origin of that moment. What does this ending mean?
It was doubly exciting. It’s like, well, what if Strange has embraced this darkness a little bit? He’s figuring out how to live with this. What does that mean for our hero? That’s an interesting question to pose on its own. Now here comes Clea saying, ‘You caused an incursion. You did the thing— perhaps the very thing—you were hoping Wanda wouldn’t do. Now we’ve gotta fix it together.’ So, yeah, it just felt like a nice little tease of adventures to come.

Edited May 15, 2022 by tv echo

[Colorado David]

I for one want to see this FF miniseries:

Office Jim as Reed Richards

Office Pam as Sue Storm

Office Dwight as Human Torch

Office Kevin as the Thing

Office Creed as Dr. Doom

I want it funny like the Office, but with 'serious' storylines. This is a show I would watch. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Colorado David

[Spartan Girl]

It really felt like Sam Raimi decided to throw shades of Evil Dead and Drag Me to Hell into the movie. Which I admit was kind of fun to watch. It’s just a shame that instead of the Wanda clusterfuck and the Illuminati cameos that was basically there just to add to Scarlet Witch’s body count, they had brought in Strange Supreme from What If? But instead it was just a different evil Strange variant? Whatever.

Suppose I should just be grateful Raimi let Christine be useful instead of turning her into the same kind of whiny dishrag he made MJ in his Spider-Man movies.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[tv echo]

Weekend Box Office: Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Takes $61M Sophomore Frame
News & Analysis • Boxoffice Staff • May 15 2022
https://www.boxofficepro.com/weekend-box-office-doctor-strange-multiverse-madness-firestarter/ 

Quote

Disney and Marvel Studios’ superhero sequel Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness easily maintained first place but with a sharp -67% decline to $61.0M. A few stats and comparison to put that drop in context:

• Last frame, it earned the #11-biggest domestic opening of all time with $187.4M. This frame, it falls to the #32-largest second weekend of all time.
• Among the only 10 films with larger opening weekends, Multiverse tied for the steepest percentage drop in its second frame, along with Spider-Man: No Way Home and Star Wars: The Last Jedi, both of which also fell -67%. (Home’s second frame fell during arguably the worst week of Covid-19’s Omicron variant, though)
• Compared to its predecessor, Multiverse fell noticeably more than 2016’s original Doctor Strange (-49%).
• Compared to the other most recent superhero film, it also fell much steeper than Warner Bros.’ DC Comics adaptation The Batman (-50%).
• Among other pandemic-era Marvel releases, Multiverse fell steeper than Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (-54%) and Eternals (-62%), the same level as  Spider-Man: No Way Home (-67%), and only one percentage point less than Black Widow (-68%). Widow was released day-and-date, simultaneously in theaters and Disney+, with such films generally experiencing steeper box office drops.

*  *  *
Multiverse has now earned $396M overseas and $292M domestic, for a $688M global total.

That beats the $678M global haul of 2016’s original Doctor Strange, and stands as the #5 MPA-rated (i.e. non-Chinese) film of the pandemic era.

 

Marvel Studios’ Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | Epic
Marvel Entertainment   May 15, 2022

Edited May 16, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios’ Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | Shatter
Marvel Entertainment   May 17, 2022

Edited May 17, 2022 by tv echo

[Perfect Xero]

I had to step out of the theater for a few minutes, I left at the scene where Strange was trying to open the door that would supposedly lead them to the good McGuffin book, Christine shows him the watch. When I came back in Wanda had America in the temple and Strange and Christine were in a different universe about to meet the 3 eyed Strange.

Can anyone fill in that blank for me?

[Sakura12]

4 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

I had to step out of the theater for a few minutes, I left at the scene where Strange was trying to open the door that would supposedly lead them to the good McGuffin book, Christine shows him the watch. When I came back in Wanda had America in the temple and Strange and Christine were in a different universe about to meet the 3 eyed Strange.

Can anyone fill in that blank for me?

The watch was the key to open the door to where the book was. America got the book, Wanda over powered her, America opened a random portal, Wanda sent Strange and Christine through it. Then made America open a portal to the temple. 

[Perfect Xero]

12 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

The watch was the key to open the door to where the book was. America got the book, Wanda over powered her, America opened a random portal, Wanda sent Strange and Christine through it. Then made America open a portal to the temple. 

Thanks! What happened to the book?

[Chyromaniac]

4 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Thanks! What happened to the book?

Got blasted before they could really do anything with it.  Overall, I really enjoyed the film - but this was the one big letdown.  I kind of feel like they got rid of it partly so they wouldn’t have to explain it.  But, I think it would have been interesting if maybe in its own way, the Book of Vishanti were just as corrosive to its readers as the Darkhold.  I think that would have taken the film in a much different direction, but I think it would have been more satisfying than just the cop out of just destroying it.

[tv echo]

Is the Multiverse Real?! | Ask Marvel
Marvel Entertainment   May 18, 2022

'Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness': The Tragedy of Donna Strange
BY CHRISTINE DINH     May 18, 2022
https://www.marvel.com/articles/movies/doctor-strange-multiverse-of-madness-tragedy-donna-strange-sister 

Quote

Strange shares that he had a young sister Donna, who died at a young age, while they were playing on a frozen lake. Sinister Strange simply retorts, “We don’t talk about that, now do we?”

This emotional and impactful reveal serves to explain how this fixed point is a defining moment in all Stephen Strange’s lives. Marvel.com had the opportunity to speak to both film director Sam Raimi and actor Benedict Cumberbatch on incorporating this backstory into Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

“All the characters in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Doctor Strange, America Chavez, and Wanda Maximoff, have trauma in their background,” explains Raimi to Marvel.com. “Stephen lost his sister in an accident on a frozen lake, and he was powerless to save her, and he’s had to live with that. I think it’s why he became a surgeon, trying desperately to save people where he couldn’t as a boy.”

“The loss of Donna is basically the bedrock of his motivation as a character so I’m really glad that we exposed that part of his backstory in this iteration of it,” shares Cumberbatch with Marvel.com about this shared ‘psychological birthmark,’ where Stephen Stranges in any universe tries to control death through their ‘artistry, arrogance, and skill.’

“We meet him as a neurosurgeon, somebody who thinks he can control the situation through sheer determination, ego and ability. To an extent, he’s right; but what he’s really trying to do is triumph over death. He’s trying to defy medicine and science, and solve problems that result in people living rather than dying.”
*  *  *
“Having failed to do that as a young person, as a teenager with his sister drowning in front of him and being incapable of resuscitating her, that’s a pretty dark place to begin a career in medicine,” Cumberbatch continues. “It almost always feels like it’s righting a wrong, and that’s a deep scar. That’s something he still holds right up until this moment in the film where he realizes, ‘Okay, I have to face my fears. It’s not always possible for me to control the outcome of things.’ I learned that when I was young but I didn’t learn it; I buried the trauma, and it manifested in this need to try and master everything. Whether it’s with a scalpel in brain surgery or whether it’s with sorcery in the Multiverse, it’s not always the best way to think that you can try it through sheer will, effort, and ego driven necessity to control. It’s a very interesting bit of his backstory to reveal.”

“All of these things have worked to forge these heroes and help make them who they are today,” Raimi concludes.

Edited May 19, 2022 by tv echo

[Spartan Girl]

The more I think about it, the madder I get. So Strange knew about Westview, and yet he didn’t stop to think, “Hey, maybe I should go find Wanda, make sure she doesn’t have another magical meltdown”? Had he done that instead of just waiting until he needed her help with America, he might have known about her having the Darkhold sooner and stopped it before it corrupted her beyond the point of no return.

But no. Apparently all the Avengers had an unspoken agreement that once they Snapped her back, she was on her own, friend or not. “Let’s leave the traumatized and powerful witch on her own after she’s lost the love of her life, I’m sure she’ll be just fine.” And the fact that the MCU STILL refuses to acknowledge the Avengers’ post Endgame shortsightedness makes my teeth crack.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Bruinsfan]

They also apparently left Thor to wallow in despair for years after the Snap. So much concern over a guy with a bow going vigilante, so little over the effect of becoming an orphaned refugee on someone who can create hurricanes and summon a planet-destroying transporter beam!

Edited May 19, 2022 by Bruinsfan

[Spartan Girl]

Honestly it’s enough to make me wish they had a scene of Wanda finding her way to Steve’s stupid dancing happy ending timeline and had her blow the house the fuck up. 

[tv echo]

 

Marvel Studios’ Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | Phenomenon
Marvel Entertainment   May 19, 2022

Edited May 20, 2022 by tv echo

[Bookworm 1979]

16 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Honestly it’s enough to make me wish they had a scene of Wanda finding her way to Steve’s stupid dancing happy ending timeline and had her blow the house the fuck up. 

I hit the "laugh" icon for this, but I also want to like it, too!  

The double standard in these movies is definitely there.  I've seen people call Wanda a mind rapist for what she did to Westview, and yet nothing when it comes to Loki, probably because a lot of them think Tom Hiddleston is hot.

[Chyromaniac]

Maybe it’s just the old school comics reader in me, but I don’t think I ever worry about what the various MCU heroes do between movies/shows, or whether they ever check up on each other offscreen.  There was just always this understanding that if a character wasn’t in the issue you were reading, that they were busy with problems of their own.  It was easy to make that assumption back then, when you could literally see the racks of books full of other characters’ problems - but I think the same implicit understanding can hold true for the movies.  The only difference is that unlike with the comics, there’s clearly no way that we see everything that happens to these characters.  Take this film - Strange says his Mordo went crazy, which he wouldn’t have known at the end of the last film.  Therefore, we can presume that they’ve had some kind of confrontation(s) between then and now- they just haven’t been shown on screen.  And, we don’t really need to see them for the purposes of this movie (we know that Mordo went bad)- we just need to understand that Strange has reasons to not trust Illuminati Mordo, which IMO they accomplished just fine.

So, should Strange - or any other hero - have checked in on Wanda after Endgame or WandaVision?  Maybe?  Maybe they did, and they didn’t show it.  Or maybe they just didn’t.  Or maybe everyone else has been otherwise occupied.  All I know is that Strange discovering Wanda’s corruption as a result of coming to recruit her in this story worked for me - of course, YMMV.

 

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios’ Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | Witchcraft
Marvel Entertainment    May 20, 2022

[Guest]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:54 AM, Chyromaniac said:

Maybe it’s just the old school comics reader in me, but I don’t think I ever worry about what the various MCU heroes do between movies/shows, or whether they ever check up on each other offscreen.  There was just always this understanding that if a character wasn’t in the issue you were reading, that they were busy with problems of their own.  It was easy to make that assumption back then, when you could literally see the racks of books full of other characters’ problems - but I think the same implicit understanding can hold true for the movies.  The only difference is that unlike with the comics, there’s clearly no way that we see everything that happens to these characters.  Take this film - Strange says his Mordo went crazy, which he wouldn’t have known at the end of the last film.  Therefore, we can presume that they’ve had some kind of confrontation(s) between then and now- they just haven’t been shown on screen.  And, we don’t really need to see them for the purposes of this movie (we know that Mordo went bad)- we just need to understand that Strange has reasons to not trust Illuminati Mordo, which IMO they accomplished just fine.

This is they way I feel. It’s just not feasible to show those connections on screen or give a good in universe reason why certain characters aren’t involved. 

[Hiyo]

I think it's something you just have to accept in this franchise. Many people were wondering the same thing during Winter Soldier, ie, where is everyone else?

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios’ Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | Forever
Marvel Entertainment   May 21, 2022

[tv echo]

WEEKEND BOX OFFICE RESULTS: DOCTOR STRANGE CONTINUES CASTING A SPELL OVER THE BOX OFFICE, AS IT ADDS ANOTHER $31 MILLION
by Erik Childress | May 22, 2022
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/weekend-box-office-results-doctor-strange-adds-over-31-million/ 

Quote

First things first, because Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness continued its run at the top of the box office with another $31.6 million. This is a good number as it puts the Marvel film more firmly on pace again for a $400+ million finish. An even better number is the $342 million it has in its pocket after 17 days. Only four films have reached $300 million in that timeframe and the highest-grossing one that did not — the final Harry Potter film — was at $318 million. Doctor Strange’s third weekend was also higher than Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen ($24.2 million), The Hunger Games: Catching Fire ($26.1 million), and Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom ($28.6 million), which finished with $402 million, $424 million, and $417 million, respectively. Strange’s $342 million is also nearly $20 million ahead of Transformers’ pace. It will fall from its perch next weekend but will still have the benefit of the Memorial Day holiday. Anything over $14 million will keep it well on pace, and it should have no trouble doing that. It’s worldwide gross now stands at over $803 million.

[Raja]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:28 AM, Bookworm 1979 said:

I hit the "laugh" icon for this, but I also want to like it, too!  

The double standard in these movies is definitely there.  I've seen people call Wanda a mind rapist for what she did to Westview, and yet nothing when it comes to Loki, probably because a lot of them think Tom Hiddleston is hot.

More like Wanda made a heel turn, like good heroes stories need good villians too. While Loki has gone from villian to anti hero

[tv echo]

Stephen Strange’s Hello and Goodbye to the Love of His Life, Christine Palmer
BY CHRISTINE DINH   MAY 18, 2022
https://www.marvel.com/articles/movies/doctor-strange-loves-of-his-life-christine-palmer-clea 

Quote

Marvel.com had the opportunity to talk to the stars and creative team behind Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness about Stephen’s personal journey, of letting go of Christine Palmer, and meeting one of Doctor Strange’s great loves from the comic books, Clea.

Commenting on Stephen Strange and Christine Palmer’s farewell moment, Rachel McAdams tells Marvel.com, “That was a beautifully written scene by Michael [Waldron]. It was so simple and straightforward; there were no bells and whistles.”

“Doctor Strange wasn’t trying to dance his way out of something,” continues McAdams. “He was just so vulnerable, naked, and honest. It was heartbreaking and beautiful, and Benedict played it so perfectly. It makes me cry every time.”

As one of the rare few individuals that Stephen Strange trusts, McAdams shares that the love is reciprocated even if they’re not meant to be with each other as demonstrated by her character still holding onto Strange’s prized watch, “Even when you’re betrayed, it’s almost harder to let go of someone who’s done you wrong. You kind of cling to them even tighter.”

“Part of her keeping the watch is a lot of unfinished business,” explains McAdams. “It’s a lot of trying to process the trauma she went through with him, but also hope there’s going to be a resolution within herself or from out in the world somewhere. When another Stephen shows up, she can’t help wondering if…. It’s hard not to transfer her love for the old Stephen and her desire for things to be different onto this Stephen. It’s very human for her to do that.”
*  *  *
As for Benedict Cumberbatch’s views on the tender farewell scene, he shares, “I don’t think we’ve seen that from him; we haven’t seen him risk a piece of personal, emotional honesty ever. We’ve seen him struggle to empathize, and we’ve seen him struggle to have an emotional language. That searing honesty is flooring in a character that has such self-assurance and certainty in so much of what he does.”
*  *  *
Not only that, it was these more intimate glimpses into Stephen Strange that made the experience even more meaningful to Cumberbatch. “For me, as an actor driven by character, I'm more interested in that; it's the stepping stones to building someone who becomes exciting,” reflects Cumberbatch. “It was very important to me to keep it real and to have that human dynamic. Finish their relationship, and end it with that moment of sharing and honesty, and look where it takes him. She gives him freedom to take the risks that he felt he couldn't with her. It's a generous thing for someone who's been as hurt by that relationship as she has to do. And her love of him and his love of hers is all there in that one moment, even though it's a moment of separation. They're saying hello for the first time as well as saying goodbye for the last.”
*  *  *
“We were really excited to introduce Clea,” shares Walron. “Getting Charlize Theron to play that character, holy crap! In the comics, Clea is Doctor Strange’s great love so to speak. The alternate Christine Palmer, as she says goodbye to our Doctor Strange, tells him to face his fears, to be willing to love someone else and to face that fear connecting with someone else.”

“It felt like the perfect time to finally introduce this very pivotal character in Doctor Strange’s canon,” teases Waldron. “Strange went to the Multiverse and tampered with it as much as you probably possibly could. I don’t think it’s any surprise per the rules that Reed [Richards] laid out that he caused an Incursion. So now there’s an oncoming collision of universes. But what does that mean for the MCU? We’ll find out. But we’ve got a semi-corrupted Doctor Strange and Clea on the case! So it’s going to be a lot of fun.”

'Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness': The Epic Musical Note Battle
BY CHRISTINE DINH    MAY 23, 2022
https://www.marvel.com/articles/movies/doctor-strange-multiverse-of-madness-sinister-musical-note-battle 

Quote

... Sinister Strange then offers a bargain — he’ll give Doctor Strange the Darkhold if Strange gives him Christine Palmer, who is currently waiting outside of the Sanctum Santorum. As expected, Strange does not agree to the trade, resulting in an all-out magic battle using literal musical notes.

Reflecting on the scene, during an early set visit, titular star Benedict Cumberbatch, who portrays both Doctor Strange and Sinister Strange, revealed, “I’m really excited for [fans], egotistically, to see the two of them on-screen together where you’ve got Sinister Strange and our Strange cat-and-mousing each other, finding out who the other one is and whether to be trusted.”

“Everything that boils over is used from that moment,” continued Cumberbatch. “This fight, in particular, is a very very fresh take on what that magic can do.”

Most recently, Marvel.com had the opportunity to talk about director Sam Raimi about the genesis of this scene. “We wanted to do something extraordinary because we had Doctor Strange versus Sinister Strange,” shared Raimi. “We didn’t want them to throw fisticuffs, and we didn’t even want their classic spells against each other. We wanted something that we hadn’t seen before. I thought it would be really cool if they used music as a weapon against each other.”
*  *  *
“With the help of my great storyboard artist Doug Lefler, we developed a sequence,” revealed Raimi. “So many people contributed to it, including Bryan Andrews, the director of What If…? We had to design the music notes in a way that would really make a dramatic impact on-screen, so Kevin [Feige] helped me bring Bryan on board to design the colors and the look of the notes so that they really have a special feel to them.”

The visual element was just one facet of this musical note battle; Raimi also sought input from his longtime collaborator, composer Danny Elfman, which resulted in the “Lethal Symphonies.” 

“When Sam first described it to me, I said to Sam, ‘I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about,” Elfman shared with Marvel.com. After Raimi shot the scene, he came back to Elfman to show him exactly what he meant.

“Literally, not metaphorically, these notes are flying off the page,” remarked Elfman. “It was working various classical pieces against each other; kind of famous pieces. Then, in the very 59th minute of the 11th hour, at the very end, Kevin Feige jumped in and said to just simplify it to Beethoven versus Bach. I did one more pass at it where it was Beethoven’s ‘5th Symphony’ against Bach's ‘Toccata and Fugue.’ It really worked out perfectly.”

“It was a very novel use of an environment,” Cumberbatch told Marvel.com about the final sequence. “It was Strange reaching desperately at hand for what there was. It was a lot of fun to do. There was a point where it became a little bit like a weird tennis match. I was like, 'No, it's got to be more inventive. We have to explode it, and we have to use different elements.' I came up with the ideas of the sound effects, splitting it apart and coming back together. The notes were hitting Sinister Strange like sort of peppering him with bullets, and then there was one note that would go into a ball that's being held to explode."

[tv echo]

[shrewd.buddha]

I am sorry to say that I found this one to be disappointing.  As some others have said, it felt like too much, yet not enough.
From the very beginning, the over-the-top CGI kept me from getting into the story. The monster that was chasing alt-Dr. Strange and the girl just looked fake -- plus it could have killed them easily, multiple times.

To me, the biggest issues were: 

• Strange and Wanda both have vaguely defined, plot-determined, hand-wavy powers.  Having them battle each other was like two airport runway directors having a dance-off.
• It would have helped if it was more clearly shown that the Book of Evil had corrupted Wanda. Instead, her motivations and logic of how to get her magically created children 'back' did not add up. 
• There should have been some mention of Vision (and the 'white' version that is still out there).  It was as if Wanda didn't care about finding a world where Vision was still alive.
• Wanda can take out vibranium Ultron-type robot guards and Reed Richards with a flick of the wrist, but needs to fight Captain Carter hand-to-hand?  Again with the plot determined power levels.
• Dr. Strange's biggest role in his own movie seemed to be babysitting Ms. Chavez and telling her to believe in herself.  After 'America' showed Wanda her own ugly reflection, it was Wanda who brought an end to the threat of Wanda.  

There was one interesting development that the movie seemed to ignore. It appeared that on Illuminati-world,  Dr. Strange had found another way to defeat Thanos -- by sacrificing  himself to the corruption of the Darkhold book -- knowing that he himself would then be the potential world-ending threat.  It would have been interesting if our Dr. Strange admitted to have seen that alternative, but chose the 5-year snap/blip option instead. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by shrewd.buddha
grammar

[tv echo]

Unconfirmed....

‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ Digital and Blu-Ray Release Dates Announced
Michelle Beck   May 25, 2022 
https://www.disneyplusinformer.com/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-digital-and-blu-ray-release-dates-announced/ 

Quote

Marvel Studios’ “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness”  debuts on all major digital platforms on June 22 and on Blu-Ray on July 26. A Disney+ release date has not been announced yet but it is expected to launch on the streaming service on June 22.

(Movie Extras Videos)

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

John Staub, a concept artist on Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, posted the following concept art on Instagram (as reported by The Direct)...

Also, Marvel's official twitter account for Doctor Strange tweeted the following pics of The Illuminati...

Edited May 28, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[BetterButter]

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios’ Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | Announcement | Disney+
Marvel Entertainment   Jun 2, 2022

[Terrafamilia]

Note to the Dr. Palmer of the self-ascribed 838 universe. Sorry, the Dr. Strange who popped up with young Ms. Chavez was not from the 616 universe. That would be the main comic book Marvel Universe. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is 199999. Please defer all future universe designations to Opal Luna Saturnyne.

On 5/25/2022 at 1:58 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

here was one interesting development that the movie seemed to ignore. It appeared that on Illuminati-world,  Dr. Strange had found another way to defeat Thanos -- by sacrificing  himself to the corruption of the Darkhold book -- knowing that he himself would then be the potential world-ending threat.  It would have been interesting if our Dr. Strange admitted to have seen that alternative, but chose the 5-year snap/blip option instead. 

I take it that when Dr. Strange scanned through 6 million possible futures he was doing so from that starting point with what was available to him from then forward. The Strange from Earth-838 had a completely (or largely completely) different set of possibilities available to him, particularly since things were already rather divergent between those two realities before Thanos ever came along.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Terrafamilia

[AnimeMania]

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness         June 22       Disney+ 

[Bruinsfan]

That soon? Well, I guess that settles any question I had about paying to see it in the theater a second time.

[tv echo]

Doctor Strange 2 Blu-ray Release Date & Best Buy Steelbook Artwork Revealed [EXCLUSIVE]
BY ROB KEYES    JUNE 9, 2022
https://screenrant.com/doctor-strange-2-blu-ray-release-date-steelbook/ 

Quote

Doctor Strange 2 Bonus Features*

Featurettes

• Method to the Madness - Join various crew members and Marvel employees in interviews as they discuss their love of Sam Raimi and all the details of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness that make it quintessentially Raimi.
• Introducing America Chavez - In this short and fun profile piece, we’ll learn about America’s humble beginnings in the comics. We’ll meet Xochitl Gomez and discuss the complications her character's unique power presents for the future of the MCU.
• Constructing the Multiverse - Writing a feature film for Marvel is no easy task. In this playful yet informative featurette, we’ll dive into the challenges that writer Michael Waldron faced in creating the twisting and turning story of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

Bloopers

• Gag Reel - Take a look at some of the fun outtakes on set with the cast and crew of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

Deleted Scenes

• A Great Team - A journalist questions Doctor Strange's integrity.
• Pizza Poppa - Bruce is relieved when Doctor Strange's spell ends.
• It's Not Permanent - Bruce tries to accuse Doctor Strange of being an imposter.

Audio Commentary

• View the film with audio commentary by Sam Raimi, Richie Palmer, and Michael Waldron.

*bonus features vary by product and retailer

Edited June 10, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Charlize Theron Reveals How She Ended Up in Both ‘Doctor Strange 2’ and ‘The Boys’
By Angelique Jackson    June 12, 2022
https://variety.com/2022/scene/news/charlize-theron-africa-outreach-project-old-guard-doctor-strange-the-boys-1235291868/ 

Quote

Charlize Theron is a superhero. She’s already proven this twice in the past six weeks, debuting her Marvel Cinematic Universe character Clea in “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness” and making a more subversive super-cameo in the season 3 premiere of “The Boys.” 
*  *  *
“Seth [Rogen, ‘The Boys’ executive producer] asked me a while back, and I will lay my body over broken glass for that guy and all of his partners at Point Gray, I absolutely love them, and we look after each other,” Theron said of her “Long Shot” co-star. “I love the show. I think it’s really smart.”

Then Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige called to offer the mid-credits scene cameo in — a role that indicates a lengthy future in the MCU — Theron mentioned she’d already shot for “The Boys.”

“I was very transparent, and they were just like, ‘This is great,'” she recalled. “I mean, [‘The Boys’ is] a satire. I think there’s room for everything, and it doesn’t mean anything other than people are interested in these kind of worlds right now.”

Charlize Theron on Surprise Superhero Cameos in ‘The Boys’ and ‘Doctor Strange,’ Toasting 15 Years of Africa Foundation
BY CHRIS GARDNER   JUNE 12, 2022
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/charlize-theron-the-boys-dr-strange-cameos-1235163939/ 

Quote

She has seen Doctor Strange and Theron chalked it up to “weird timing” that both projects debuted within weeks of one another. (Doctor Strange is still in theaters while The Boys is now streaming.) “When Kevin [Feige] asked me to join the Doctor Strange world, I didn’t even know when I was going to shoot that at the time. The [roles] were so far apart that I almost forgot,” said Theron, who added that she’s definitely not maxed out on cameos because “I have kids to raise.” “But in full transparency, I shared it with them and they were so happy that people are interested in this world, whether it’s satire or non-satire. I don’t know why both of these superheroes can’t live in the same world.”

[Raja]

On 5/25/2022 at 11:58 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

There was one interesting development that the movie seemed to ignore. It appeared that on Illuminati-world,  Dr. Strange had found another way to defeat Thanos -- by sacrificing  himself to the corruption of the Darkhold book -- knowing that he himself would then be the potential world-ending threat.  It would have been interesting if our Dr. Strange admitted to have seen that alternative, but chose the 5-year snap/blip option instead. 

On 6/3/2022 at 6:26 PM, Terrafamilia said:

I take it that when Dr. Strange scanned through 6 million possible futures he was doing so from that starting point with what was available to him from then forward. The Strange from Earth-838 had a completely (or largely completely) different set of possibilities available to him, particularly since things were already rather divergent between those two realities before Thanos ever came along.

I agree in the Infinity Saga we had a few aliens scattered about some super soldiers and pilots of technology which the Thanos army could match. The 838 universe had the full weight of game changing mutants and Inhumans to go along with a fully powered Thor and a proto Scarlet Witch

[tv echo]

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - Deleted Scene - A GREAT TEAM - 4K UHD
Movie Extras Videos    Jun 17, 2022

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 5/19/2022 at 8:05 AM, Spartan Girl said:

The more I think about it, the madder I get. So Strange knew about Westview, and yet he didn’t stop to think, “Hey, maybe I should go find Wanda, make sure she doesn’t have another magical meltdown”? Had he done that instead of just waiting until he needed her help with America, he might have known about her having the Darkhold sooner and stopped it before it corrupted her beyond the point of no return.

But no. Apparently all the Avengers had an unspoken agreement that once they Snapped her back, she was on her own, friend or not. “Let’s leave the traumatized and powerful witch on her own after she’s lost the love of her life, I’m sure she’ll be just fine.” And the fact that the MCU STILL refuses to acknowledge the Avengers’ post Endgame shortsightedness makes my teeth crack.

Hell, they couldn't even be bothered to make sure Vision was buried somewhere decent and respectful, so that a ghoul like Hayward couldn't get to him. So Wanda being totally without support after her return to the world shouldn't be that much of a surprise, and yet somehow it is. "I blew a hole through the head of the man I love, and it meant nothing."

Clint gets a pass, and even that's contingent on Barton's encroaching deafness and the fact that he probably feels old and tired, and anyway now Kate's here. Everybody else who met Wanda and is still alive? Sucks, even Bruce and (unfortunately) Carol, who can make time for a holo-conference with Wong near the end of Shang Chi but can't be bothered with Wanda. Probably because they didn't need her to do anything for them. Great planning, guys.

While we're on the subject of consequences - what about Strange himself? He's the one who cast the spell for Peter, the spell Wong advised/warned him not to. Shouldn't he be tossed into the Raft or some other supermax place with a shock collar slapped around his neck so he won't misuse his powers again? Or does he get to go on 'being the one to hold the knife' now that the bigger problem has been solved at Wanda's expense? Strange is the moron who goes to Wanda for help, apparently with no concern that leaving her alone with her thoughts could lead to badness. Fine, he probably didn't know she had the Darkhold, but he knew somehow about Westview. Not many people want to give Wanda much slack for what she did, so let's at least spread it around and not make exceptions. He's lucky he didn't get America killed, since it's his fault that Wanda knew to go to Kamar Taj. All those lives she took? Could have been spared if Stephen had decided to make time to talk to the uber-powerful woman who lost everything and had nowhere to put her grief.

I don't know, I liked some parts of this movie, and America Chavez will be a fine addition now that she's arrived. But the question of 'where is So And So' is particularly glaring at times like this, since Wanda was an Avenger herself and arguably lost more than anyone. Every time someone gives the character shit for Westview and fails to equally roast Steve Rogers for hijacking Peggy Carter's life for himself, it just makes it more glaring. Forget Loki, since his story isn't really over yet and he's mostly stopped being a tool. Wanda dies (for now) as penance for her actions, but Rogers gets his 'stupid dancing happy ending timeline' and that's okay?

It doesn't seem fair.