S04.E09: Progress

[dmc]

Just now, Umbelina said:

Fred got his deal.

He's free now.

LOLOLOL

[Bannon]

The more I think about it, the less I like June and Nick's meeting. Like the ridiculous Kiss on The Bridge earlier this season, it's all so contrived, this time so we can have a  blatant Casablanca ripoff/vibe.

[EllaWycliffe]

21 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The more I think about it, the less I like June and Nick's meeting. Like the ridiculous Kiss on The Bridge earlier this season, it's all so contrived, this time so we can have a  blatant Casablanca ripoff/vibe.

I'm shallow. I'd be more ok with it if Nick was better looking, but the eyebrows always make him look like a not entirely hairy werewolf.

[mamadrama]

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

So Nick has the Bogart part, June is Bergman, and poor ol' Luke is Muni? The writers may still be trying to shoehorn Commander Lawrence as Peter Lorre; I'm half surprised they haven't yet had Nick say to him, "I think this Is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

I think we need more Janine, Esther, and Aunt Lydia at The Red Center, and less Toronto, if they aren't going to write Toronto any better than that.

 

I glazed over during all the Toronto scenes and actually enjoyed the Gilead ones and the ones with Fred and SJ. 

4 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I'm shallow. I'd be more ok with it if Nick was better looking, but the eyebrows always make him look like a not entirely hairy werewolf.

The eyebrows and the wooden acting. Kawliga had more personality. 

[mamadrama]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I know this show loves its close ups (especially when directed by Elizabeth Moss) of June's face, but there was a whole lot of that with this episode. Especially at the end with the super dramatic sound effects as June moved her head around before she confronted Tuello's and her dewy eyed drive home from meeting Nick.

My son, who counts the # of times they do a close up of June's face, thought that was the end of the episode. He was like, "Really? They needed that much filler? They had NOTHING else?" When he realized there was more to the episode he got pissed. "We could've been seeing more of 'Remains of the (Red Center's) Day' instead of this crap. We get it. She has nice pores." And when he saw "Directed by Elisabeth Moss" at the end, "Okay. Well, that explains that!"

[Bannon]

19 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I glazed over during all the Toronto scenes and actually enjoyed the Gilead ones and the ones with Fred and SJ. 

The eyebrows and the wooden acting. Kawliga had more personality. 

Let's not let our Tree-Like Thespian have all the credit! Some recognition must be extended to whomever penned the immortal line, uttered to the character, who just found out that her daughter is under constant watch by totalitarian thugs, so as to facilitate her fairly imminent forced child marriage and rape, or to be drowned in a swimming pool if she resists, "June? Be Happy!".

Ranks right up there with "We'll always have Paris".

Edited June 9, 2021 by Bannon

[mamadrama]

Just now, Bannon said:

Let's not let our Tree-Like Thespian have all the credit! Some recognition must be extended to whomever penned the immortal line, uttered to the character, who just found out that her daughter is under constant watch by totalitarian thugs, so as to facilitate her forced child marriage and rape, or to be drowned in a swimming pool if she resists, "June? Be Happy!".

Ranks right up there with "We'll always have Paris".

*snort* that's true.

On the other hand, Putnam's "thoughts and praters" for Fred was one of the highlights for me.

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, mamadrama said:

*snort* that's true.

On the other hand, Putnam's "thoughts and praters" for Fred was one of the highlights for me.

It's a shame that I'm not sure if the thoughts and prayers line was intentionally humorous or not.

[EllaWycliffe]

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

It's a shame that I'm not sure if the thoughts and prayers line was intentionally humorous or not.

Honestly thats what made the line for me?

Was he fucking with Fred in a really sly, hilarious way?

Or did he really believe all that nonsense?

I lean towards the first - Putnam is the dumbass who screwed Jeanine on the sly and lost a hand due to Fred's vote. "Thoughts and prayers, Fred! I'll laugh about this every time I try to wipe my ass with my missing hand!"

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Honestly thats what made the line for me?

Was he fucking with Fred in a really sly, hilarious way?

Or did he really believe all that nonsense?

I lean towards the first - Putnam is the dumbass who screwed Jeanine on the sly and lost a hand due to Fred's vote. "Thoughts and prayers, Fred! I'll laugh about this every time I try to wipe my ass with my missing hand!"

I think you're right!

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Honestly that's what made the line for me.  I did laugh.

Was he fucking with Fred in a really sly, hilarious way?

Or did he really believe all that nonsense?

I lean towards the first - Putnam is the dumbass who screwed Jeanine on the sly and lost a hand due to Fred's vote. "Thoughts and prayers, Fred! I'll laugh about this every time I try to wipe my ass with my missing hand!"

That's exactly what I thought of, his missing hand, and that resentment.

I laughed at "thoughts and prayers" which basically means "we're not going to do a damn thing about it."

That makes me wonder, did Putnam's anger prompt him to make a huge mistake?  He's already disgruntled, "old war horses like us are being replaced now" and all of that.  He did just screw Gilead there after all.

1 hour ago, dmc said:

He could have done that when Fred got there

He's offered Fred a deal from the beginning, the trial was just a way to FORCE him into dealing, since he wouldn't do it voluntarily.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Umbelina

[greekmom]

I saw a few clips online as show won't start till 9 pm here.

Ok. So Tuello allowed Fred to be free. June can still pursue a civil suit against Fred and Serena.  But seriously what is freedom?  Fred and Serena will always be in danger (let's take June out of the picture for now) from a previous Handmaid (well I can't get to my commander so I'll just off this one) or some woman (or man) looking for justice for whatever Gilead did them (or a family member still stuck in Gilead).  Plus I am not sure what their goal is. I mean they want Gilead but not the Gilead they left? Serena is wearing pants and writing. Even the wife who visited her was shocked. Serena will not go back to Gilead for all the tea in China even if Gilead forgave the Waterfords. They can't stay in Canada. At best they can go to wherever is still left as United States (Alaska or Hawaii).

Fred and Serena shouldn't take much stock in their "popularity" in Canada. Even Ted Bundy, Dhamer and Mason all got fan mail while they were incarcerated.  Even our notorious killer - Paul Bernardo gets fan mail.  

I loved the scene with Putman and Fred. Ha. Fred deserved that.

Poor Ester.  I hope she might end up as Nick's Handmaid. Which I am curious. Would he be having sexual relationship with his wife? I mean it goes back to the assumption that wives cannot reproduce.  So would they have done the deed? It's not like he was a commander with wife #1 and therefore was expected to sleep with her and reproduce. He was still a driver at the Waterfords - so at best first wife was an Econowife.  

[Cinnabon]

20 minutes ago, Bannon said:

It's a shame that I'm not sure if the thoughts and prayers line was intentionally humorous or not.

I’m 💯 that it was intentional.

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, greekmom said:

But seriously what is freedom?  Fred and Serena will always be in danger (let's take June out of the picture for now) from a previous Handmaid (well I can't get to my commander so I'll just off this one) or some woman (or man) looking for justice for whatever Gilead did them (or a family member still stuck in Gilead).  Plus I am not sure what their goal is. I mean they want Gilead but not the Gilead they left? Serena is wearing pants and writing. Even the wife who visited her was shocked. Serena will not go back to Gilead for all the tea in China even if Gilead forgave the Waterfords. They can't stay in Canada. At best they can go to wherever is still left as United States (Alaska or Hawaii).

I doubt they'd be any safer in Alaska or Hawaii.  AT ALL.  They overthrew the US government, and were complicit in conspiracy to murder them all.

Charges would be fast and furious there.

3 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Fred and Serena shouldn't take much stock in their "popularity" in Canada. Even Ted Bundy, Dhamer and Mason all got fan mail while they were incarcerated.  Even our notorious killer - Paul Bernardo gets fan mail.  

I loved the scene with Putman and Fred. Ha. Fred deserved that.

Yeah, at least Fred is a dead man walking.  Serena, once she gives birth?  Probably the same, unless she writes a hell of a book.

[Bannon]

However the plot turns out, I think I'm gonna end up feeling that Lawrence wasn't given enough screen time. Either he breaks totally against Gilead, and I'll think we didn't see enough of how he remembered and built on his wife's ethical example, or he in the end sides with Gilead, and we didn't see enough of this massively talented person trip into the moral abyss. Either way we could have benefitted more from this story, and less time spent on June in close-up.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Bannon

[Umbelina]

20 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I saw a few clips online as show won't start till 9 pm here.

Ok. So Tuello allowed Fred to be free. June can still pursue a civil suit against Fred and Serena.  But seriously what is freedom?  Fred and Serena will always be in danger (let's take June out of the picture for now) from a previous Handmaid (well I can't get to my commander so I'll just off this one) or some woman (or man) looking for justice for whatever Gilead did them (or a family member still stuck in Gilead).  Plus I am not sure what their goal is. I mean they want Gilead but not the Gilead they left? Serena is wearing pants and writing. Even the wife who visited her was shocked. Serena will not go back to Gilead for all the tea in China even if Gilead forgave the Waterfords. They can't stay in Canada. At best they can go to wherever is still left as United States (Alaska or Hawaii).

Fred and Serena shouldn't take much stock in their "popularity" in Canada. Even Ted Bundy, Dhamer and Mason all got fan mail while they were incarcerated.  Even our notorious killer - Paul Bernardo gets fan mail.  

I loved the scene with Putman and Fred. Ha. Fred deserved that.

Poor Ester.  I hope she might end up as Nick's Handmaid. Which I am curious. Would he be having sexual relationship with his wife? I mean it goes back to the assumption that wives cannot reproduce.  So would they have done the deed? It's not like he was a commander with wife #1 and therefore was expected to sleep with her and reproduce. He was still a driver at the Waterfords - so at best first wife was an Econowife.  

He's a commander now.  He'll be given years to reproduce with his wife before being assigned a handmaid.  

He was a driver on a commander track, he probably got a similar wife this time.

She wore blue, not stripes, so no, not an econowife.  ETA, not true, she was wearing grey, so an econowife, had they stayed married though, her outfit would become blue when Nick was promoted to commander.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Umbelina

[greekmom]

Just now, Umbelina said:

He's a commander now.  He'll be given years to reproduce with his wife before being assigned a handmaid.  

He was a driver on a commander track, he probably got a similar wife this time.

She wore blue, not stripes, so no, not an econowife.

Ecowives in the show didn't wear strips but grey outfits if I remember correctly (book said strips but show used solid colours only). Even wiki fandom lists Eden as an econowife: https://the-handmaids-tale.fandom.com/wiki/Eden_Blaine

Anyhoo... I guess they won't reproduce for fear the wife becomes a Handmaid.

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Ecowives in the show didn't wear strips but grey outfits if I remember correctly (book said strips but show used solid colours only). Even wiki fandom lists Eden as an econowife: https://the-handmaids-tale.fandom.com/wiki/Eden_Blaine

Anyhoo... I guess they won't reproduce for fear the wife becomes a Handmaid.

Oops, you are right!  Grey on the show, and with the dark lighting I was assuming blue.  Sorry!

He will have a wife in blue now, as a commander.  I'm sure they are trying to have a baby, look what happened to his other wife when he didn't.

Wives don't become handmaids if they don't reproduce, they get a handmaid, if they do reproduce, the husband gets promoted.

I don't think we've seen a wife ever become a handmaid, book or show.  That one wife that "sinned" was sent to the colonies, not made a handmaid, then again, she was barren.  

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Oops, you are right!  Grey on the show, and with the dark lighting I was assuming blue.  Sorry!

He will have a wife in blue now, as a commander.  I'm sure they are trying to have a baby, look what happened to his other wife when he didn't.

Wives don't become handmaids if they don't reproduce, they get a handmaid, if they do reproduce, the husband gets promoted.

I don't think we've seen a wife ever become a handmaid, book or show.  That one wife that "sinned" was sent to the colonies, not made a handmaid, then again, she was barren.  

Esther?

[Umbelina]

Just now, Bannon said:

Esther?

Yup, she's our first.  Not proven unfertile yet.

The way Serena was talking, perhaps it's happened before as well.

[EllaWycliffe]

There was also the econowife married to the black guy that hid June back in Season 2 - Lydia said she was made into a Handmaid. I suspect its less common with higher ranked wives. 

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

There was also the econowife married to the black guy that hid June back in Season 2 - Lydia said she was made into a Handmaid. I suspect its less common with higher ranked wives. 

True.  I expect a lot of econowives are being accused of one thing or another and made into handmaids by now, their children given away.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Umbelina

[Bannon]

We really should have a thread to calculate our collective opinion on whether Aunt Lydia finally uses up her nine lives, and  if so, which character gives her The Big Heave. I'm kinda' leaning toward Esther at this time, because she'd have the biggest grin doing it, but then I could also see Lydia gettin' all ragey with the cattle prod on Esther, and Janine sticking a fork in her eye.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Janine is such an optimist that she convinced Esther she should eat so that she'll still be alive when things get better. There are other handmaids who would have told Esther to find a way to kill herself because things will never get better and a lifetime of rape/abuse as a handmaid isn't worth living for. I wonder how long Lydia will be able to keep Janine and Esther at the red center.

I kept waiting for something to happen at Nick and June's secret meeting. I didn't know if the guardians would pop up to arrest June, kidnap Nichole, etc. so I was surprised when June drove away and nothing happened. The suspicious part of me thought that Nick put a tracker or some kind of device in the doll he gave to Nichole (even though I realize that's completely unnecessary since Gilead knows where June is).

Oh, how things have changed. Serena is wearing pants and writing and admitting that Gilead isn't that great for a woman without the clout of being the respected wife of a commander. Handmaids were a totally acceptable part of society when she got a baby out of the deal, but the prospect of actually becoming a handmaiden is too icky for Serena to imagine. No surprise there though - oppressors are always fine with the status quo when they're the ones doing the oppressing. It's only unfair and awful when they have their privilege revoked.

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Janine is such an optimist that she convinced Esther she should eat so that she'll still be alive when things get better. There are other handmaids who would have told Esther to find a way to kill herself because things will never get better and a lifetime of rape/abuse as a handmaid isn't worth living for. I wonder how long Lydia will be able to keep Janine and Esther at the red center.

Not long.

I think Janine above anyone there, knows that living is worth it, because escape IS possible.  Mostly though, she didn't want Esther maimed, to lose her tongue, or an eye.  Esther's acting just like Janine acted before Lydia removed her eye.

Staying whole, staying alive, is something most people don't give up on.  Sure, some commit suicide, but Janine knows more now than any handmaid there.  There is always hope for escape, or for Gilead to fall.

[Hava]

I don't find June and Nick's relationship romantic in the least. Aside from the fact that Nick is someone who participates in a regime that persecutes women like June, their relationship is just a heartbreaking reminder of Gilead's destruction of once-happy families and friendships. I can't look at June and Nick together without thinking of what could have been for her, Luke, and Hannah if Gilead never existed. So, for me, a happy ending would be with June, Nick, and Hannah repairing and restoring their family, however farfetched that may be. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Hava

[Hathaway]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Janine is such an optimist that she convinced Esther she should eat so that she'll still be alive when things get better. There are other handmaids who would have told Esther to find a way to kill herself because things will never get better and a lifetime of rape/abuse as a handmaid isn't worth living for. I wonder how long Lydia will be able to keep Janine and Esther at the red center.

I kept waiting for something to happen at Nick and June's secret meeting. I didn't know if the guardians would pop up to arrest June, kidnap Nichole, etc. so I was surprised when June drove away and nothing happened. The suspicious part of me thought that Nick put a tracker or some kind of device in the doll he gave to Nichole (even though I realize that's completely unnecessary since Gilead knows where June is).

Oh, how things have changed. Serena is wearing pants and writing and admitting that Gilead isn't that great for a woman without the clout of being the respected wife of a commander. Handmaids were a totally acceptable part of society when she got a baby out of the deal, but the prospect of actually becoming a handmaiden is too icky for Serena to imagine. No surprise there though - oppressors are always fine with the status quo when they're the ones doing the oppressing. It's only unfair and awful when they have their privilege revoked.

Whenever I think about things like this, I think of those who managed to survive gulags or the concentration camps.  Both were much worse, but the human spirit can endure quite a bit, and has.  Certainly more than Gilead, for those who have survived.  

Janine has.  She endured the colonies as well.

 

Above all, I hope Janine gets "Angela" back someday.  In the meantime I hope Angela bites the shit out if her witch of a Gilead mother.

[boes]

3 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I'm shallow. I'd be more ok with it if Nick was better looking, but the eyebrows always make him look like a not entirely hairy werewolf.

Haha!  He always looks to me like he just entered puberty and June is his best bud's "hot" mom he has a crush on.

[Hathaway]

7 minutes ago, boes said:

Haha!  He always looks to me like he just entered puberty and June is his best bud's "hot" mom he has a crush on.

He was hottest when he was with Eden, probably because he had more acting to do.  He was pretty hot with June this episode, but in general, I agree.

He is a better match for June though.  He really gets her, and he does as many dangerous and brave things as she.

Luke is a wimp.  He is slightly less clueless than he was though.  June tries hard to love him, but it's effortless with Nick.

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, dmc said:

Then why did he cut a deal with Serena? 

The deal he originally offered was to Serena not to Fred.  He fully planned on prosecuting Fred.  This plan doesn't make any sense.  

He could have tricked Serena into bringing Fred to Canada and offered Fred a deal last season.  He always knew what Fred's position was. 

It wasn't like he offered Fred a deal back then and he said no. 

I'm pretty sure he did offer a deal to Fred but Fred was still under the illusion that he would go back to Gilead and be a commander there again. Tuello was hoping that Fred would realize after June's victim statement that he has no other options, but then the supporters showed up and gave Fred a second wind. So, as a last resort, Tuello arranged the Putnam visit so that Putnam could tell Fred that Gilead doesn't give a shit about him. That's when Fred finally agreed to a deal.

3 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I lean towards the first - Putnam is the dumbass who screwed Jeanine on the sly and lost a hand due to Fred's vote. "Thoughts and prayers, Fred! I'll laugh about this every time I try to wipe my ass with my missing hand!"

Actually Fred was the one who tried to get him off scot-free; it was Naomi who appealed to the highest-ranking commander for a harsh punishment "to save his soul." I do think that Putnam is both zealous and stupid enough to have meant the "thoughts and prayers" sincerely, even if the other Gilead commanders didn't.

[dmc]

3 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I glazed over during all the Toronto scenes and actually enjoyed the Gilead ones and the ones with Fred and SJ. 

The eyebrows and the wooden acting. Kawliga had more personality. 

Nick isn't classically handsome but his looks have grown on me.  I feel like this is best kind of attractiveness. The people that at first you are like...eh but get better looking as you know them

[Hathaway]

So, it seems like Nick is still Mayday, "We have friendlies there."  He's also a Commander in Gilead, AND and at least friendly with the CIA, and/or Canada?  Nah, he could have told them as much as Fred if that were true.  

Sounds like June should be very grateful to Tuello for letting her visit a terrorist the Swiss won't even talk to.

 

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

Nick isn't classically handsome but his looks have grown on me.

I don't mind his looks, but I find Max Minghella's acting so bad that Nick will never be "attractive" to me. He's like the male version of Kristen Stewart with his one facial expression.

The writing for Nick doesn't help either. I don't buy that he's been playing every side for years without anyone finding out or even getting suspicious. There must be at least one commander who wasn't happy with Nick's quick rise through the ranks and decided to put surveillance on him. Also unlikely that he still has "friendlies" in the resistance after he ordered the bombing of Chicago a few episodes ago. I doubt they're *that* understanding.

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

Nick isn't classically handsome but his looks have grown on me.  I feel like this is best kind of attractiveness. The people that at first you are like...eh but get better looking as you know them

Max is perfectly fine. I find him neither attractive nor unattractive. I was just voicing my agreement with another poster about his eyebrows.

It's his acting and the way his character is written that I have problems with. 

[boes]

1 hour ago, Hathaway said:

So, it seems like Nick is still Mayday, "We have friendlies there."  He's also a Commander in Gilead, AND and at least friendly with the CIA, and/or Canada?  Nah, he could have told them as much as Fred if that were true.  

Sounds like June should be very grateful to Tuello for letting her visit a terrorist the Swiss won't even talk to.

 

I think Nick is more akin to some of the men in the Nazi High Command who thought they had a hand in both camps, who exaggerated their own importance in that area, secure in their minds that some of their actions, turning a blind eye to minor resistance or saving the lives of certain people, engaging in some subterranean contact with the other side would negate their wholehearted participation in the horrors of the regime they served.  

He isn't as slick as he thinks he is, something he'll probably find out when (hopefully) it all crumbles around him.

[chick binewski]

9 hours ago, dmc said:

I call my review Luke Who?Yeah I have never been a Luke fan, I try hard to be but my view of him is basically Moira's view of him. I want to like him for June but nahhh.

But Luke Who, because June's ride of die is here.

Nick, who despite being without June is only considering June's interest. I fully admit that I that Nick and June was problematic for me at first because there was no consent. But June is clearly consenting now. Notice, Nick didn't say...now that you are free, you can move on...he knows she can't move on until she has Hannah...so he's looking out for her. A woman without her child cannot move on.

 

8 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I also noticed that June really kisses Nick back but not Luke. I wish she’d just drop Luke. '

I thought the music was weird and ominous when Luke asked June to meet with Nick. Like he was being threatening. It was so strange to me. I get it was a big ask for Luke to ask June to meet with the person that she had told Luke she loved (her note to Luke said Nicole was born from love, paraphrased). But, the music should’ve been sad or something to show it was hard for Luke. Instead, he looked all evil amd mean. It was weird to me. 

 

2 hours ago, Hava said:

I don't find June and Nick's relationship romantic in the least. Aside from the fact that Nick is someone who participates in a regime that persecutes woman like June, their relationship is just a heartbreaking reminder of Gilead's destruction of once-happy families and friendships. I can't look at June and Nick together without thinking of what could have been for her, Luke, and Hannah if Gilead never existed. So, for me, a happy ending would be with June, Nick, and Hannah repairing and restoring their family, however farfetched that may be. 

My take on the odd camerawork and speech pattern with Luke was that the character did NOT want June to reunite with Nick, but felt it was the only option left to bring Hannah back to her family. This may be due to my own biases that 1. the show doesn't want us to know what anyone's motivations are and 2. O-T is the one actor who is selling me on being enigmatic in a way that doesn't feel contrived. I'm fine if Luke & June split but the actor is one of my favorite things about the show.

And yeah, June & Nick have chemistry but...no. He's a commander who quite frankly has done very little besides pet June's hair and be better than Fred.  

Final thoughts:

I really want to see Serena back in Gilead alone, as opposed to going on some Canadian fan tour with Fred. The show can even go ahead and make it Tuello's kid like we were suspecting at the start of the season.                                                                                                                     

I know it's dumb but the posts here and other boards about Nick marrying Hannah will be my obsession for the week. (There's something WRONG with Nick being able to get the photos but not the kid and that rig reveal was ominous.)

I was way too obsessed with what Red Center wives-turned-handmaids are served for breakfast.

Edited June 10, 2021 by chick binewski
Written skills falter when I add extra St. Germain to my spritzer

[greekmom]

Well saw it.
I agree whomever said that the Aunt's meal looked like the last supper.  I don't see any redemption in Lydia's character at all.
Poor Esther. I feel sorry for her. She doesn't deserve this.

I sympathize with Luke. This is a freaking difficult situation. I would say it mirrors with people who were separated by war and the one person left behind had to do whatever to survive and did find some small speck of happiness. The problem is there is a child involved and Luke is handling it like a man. Plus no one said you cannot love 2 people the same time.  It happens. And June can love Nick and Luke for two different reasons at the same time. 
I would love to know who the heck is Commander Blaine's wife. 
For Gawds sake why is Serena still insisting on her teal wife's dress and Waterford wearing his Commander suit?  Give it up already.
Cant believe we are in the finale next week.
 

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I'm pretty sure he did offer a deal to Fred but Fred was still under the illusion that he would go back to Gilead and be a commander there again. Tuello was hoping that Fred would realize after June's victim statement that he has no other options, but then the supporters showed up and gave Fred a second wind. So, as a last resort, Tuello arranged the Putnam visit so that Putnam could tell Fred that Gilead doesn't give a shit about him. That's when Fred finally agreed to a deal.

Actually Fred was the one who tried to get him off scot-free; it was Naomi who appealed to the highest-ranking commander for a harsh punishment "to save his soul." I do think that Putnam is both zealous and stupid enough to have meant the "thoughts and prayers" sincerely, even if the other Gilead commanders didn't.

I'd forgotten that it was Mrs. Putnam who demanded a pound of Mr. Putnam's flesh. That'd be an interesting topic for a marriage counseling session...."Mr. Putnam, now that Mrs. Putnam  has told us how your extraceremonial rapes of your Handmaiden made her feel, do you want to tell Mrs. Putnam how it makes you feel that she was a strong advocate for having your hand lopped off? Other than the phantom limb pain, of course..."

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Bannon

[EllaWycliffe]

3 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

I know it's dumb but the posts here and other boards about Nick marrying Hannah will be my obsession for the week. (There's something WRONG with Nick being able to get the photos but not the kid and that rig reveal was ominous.)

Its awful and icky but I would sorta die if this was the big reveal.

[Hathaway]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I don't mind his looks, but I find Max Minghella's acting so bad that Nick will never be "attractive" to me. He's like the male version of Kristen Stewart with his one facial expression.

The writing for Nick doesn't help either. I don't buy that he's been playing every side for years without anyone finding out or even getting suspicious. There must be at least one commander who wasn't happy with Nick's quick rise through the ranks and decided to put surveillance on him. Also unlikely that he still has "friendlies" in the resistance after he ordered the bombing of Chicago a few episodes ago. I doubt they're *that* understanding.

Well the friendlies are in Colorado, so I don't think they know about ,Chicago.  Big wig's ordered that, not Nick.  

 

I'm sure he, like everyone, is being watched, but being a former Eye, he probably knows all the tricks.

 

 

[Hathaway]

I need June to stop wearing so much red.  WTF?  Try green or black or yellow polka dots!  Isn't she sick of red by now?

Why is costume design doing this?  We aren't likely to forget she was a Handmaid's.

[Ms Blue Jay]

23 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Which leads us to Nick's oh so casual, yet awkward, yet oddly hot visit with June. How is that just being arranged? How is Nick not worried that he'll get the same "now you're under arrest" treatment Fred got?

I love how you called it "oddly hot".   So true.  Elisabeth Moss was on Seth Meyers and she spoke about directing the episodes and letting the camera linger on Max Minghella's beautiful face and eyebrows.  Elisabeth knows what scenes to set up!  😁

[SourK]

The music almost made me care about Nick, and then I remembered that I hate him.

I don't know how this stuff works in real life, but, if the whole point of the last episode was to try to convince the International Criminal Court to try Fred, does the USA actually have the ability to stop that? Like, if the ICC says, "We want to try him for war crimes, now," can the US government say, "Nah, never mind"?

On 6/9/2021 at 1:17 AM, EllaWycliffe said:

Is it really likely that Lawrence could or would take a phone call from June?  I mean, there's a giant war and all but June can get him on speeddial? Their conversation was fun and well done but did anyone think Lawrence would like "Yeah, let me ship her up with Nick on his next visit"?

I found that weird, too, and I'm not sure what they expected him to say on the call. Like, obviously, it wouldn't be private -- or he wouldn't be able to trust that it's private. So, if you wanted his help, you'd have to go in with the idea that you were going to tell him what you needed, and obviously he would say no, and then maybe he'd do it. But the way they reacted as if they thought he'd be like, "Sure."

(My money is on him coming through to help get Hannah and everyone being surprised.)

12 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I get that June was pissed that Waterford wasn’t being prosecuted, but I really thought she would be able to see the big picture. That she was going to realize that they were closer to bringing Gilead down.

What I like about this plot development is that the way everyone reacted makes sense because there are conflicting priorities. So, yeah, intellectually, having Fred jump ship is a good thing since it can help them bring Gilead down. But June's reaction makes sense too, and I'm starting to think that, as unlikable as I find her, the show is actually going somewhere with her out-of-control rage.

One of the things that's really, really hard about surviving abuse (of many kinds) is that often the person who did it gets away with it and never really suffers any consequence. And, when that happens, it can feel like society is telling you that what that person did to you didn't matter. And it makes you want to go berserk. So, the question becomes, what do you do with that rage, if you can't ever really get justice?

So, I'm interested to see where this goes.

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Janine is such an optimist that she convinced Esther she should eat so that she'll still be alive when things get better. There are other handmaids who would have told Esther to find a way to kill herself because things will never get better and a lifetime of rape/abuse as a handmaid isn't worth living for. I wonder how long Lydia will be able to keep Janine and Esther at the red center.

I thought those were interesting scenes, and I'm wondering if Janine's going to end up as an Aunt -- which would dovetail with the story line we already got about everyone being unwilling to forgive that other Aunt.

I also think it touched on something really true -- when they're living in these kinds of circumstances, a lot of people do exactly this -- they try cooperate enough to survive and hope that things will get better. And there's a legitimate debate you can have about whether that kind of hope makes things worse for the person or better.

[Cinnabon]

13 minutes ago, SourK said:

The music almost made me care about Nick, and then I remembered that I hate him.

I don't know how this stuff works in real life, but, if the whole point of the last episode was to try to convince the International Criminal Court to try Fred, does the USA actually have the ability to stop that? Like, if the ICC says, "We want to try him for war crimes, now," can the US government say, "Nah, never mind"?

I found that weird, too, and I'm not sure what they expected him to say on the call. Like, obviously, it wouldn't be private -- or he wouldn't be able to trust that it's private. So, if you wanted his help, you'd have to go in with the idea that you were going to tell him what you needed, and obviously he would say no, and then maybe he'd do it. But the way they reacted as if they thought he'd be like, "Sure."

(My money is on him coming through to help get Hannah and everyone being surprised.)

What I like about this plot development is that the way everyone reacted makes sense because there are conflicting priorities. So, yeah, intellectually, having Fred jump ship is a good thing since it can help them bring Gilead down. But June's reaction makes sense too, and I'm starting to think that, as unlikable as I find her, the show is actually going somewhere with her out-of-control rage.

One of the things that's really, really hard about surviving abuse (of many kinds) is that often the person who did it gets away with it and never really suffers any consequence. And, when that happens, it can feel like society is telling you that what that person did to you didn't matter. And it makes you want to go berserk. So, the question becomes, what do you do with that rage, if you can't ever really get justice?

So, I'm interested to see where this goes.

I thought those were interesting scenes, and I'm wondering if Janine's going to end up as an Aunt -- which would dovetail with the story line we already got about everyone being unwilling to forgive that other Aunt.

I also think it touched on something really true -- when they're living in these kinds of circumstances, a lot of people do exactly this -- they try cooperate enough to survive and hope that things will get better. And there's a legitimate debate you can have about whether that kind of hope makes things worse for the person or better.

We saw what happened to those who served in the Nazi regime. “I was just following orders” was not considered a legitimate defense for the cruelty, murders, and horrors they were part of.

[Hathaway]

From what we saw in earlier episodes the world,  at least in Europe, wants to know about Gilead too, so I would guess yes.  They'd stop the trial.  They are smart enough to know it was all about getting Fred to talk anyway.  Shared goals.

[circumvent]

I am not sure what to make of this episode. I don't understand who Nick really is. He is a commander but doesn't seem to follow Gilead's misogyny. On the other hand, he shows little warmth toward his daughter, which i would expect from a commander who only cares about numbers of babies, but not the babies themselves. Or maybe the actor cannot show nuance. I can see the conflict inside Lawrence but Nick, to me, is empty.

Why did Serena change into Wife's clothes to talk to Fred? Why is June still walking around with her tag/chip? 

I thought that the characters were all over the place this episode but not in a way that made much sense. 

[Baltimore Betty]

Luke confuses me, sometimes he is all about June and her healing and other times he seems like he wants to take her down a notch or two, when she was going to meet with Nick (I have no idea why, nothing was attempted to be accomplished other than a few photos of Hannah and cooing over Nicole), Luke was all "yes, let's do this and find out where Hannah is" but then was a little pyscho about June meeting up with Nick, messing with her head about it. 

Luke knows that if it was not for Nick June would be digging up radioactive dirt or working at Jezebel's, right?

Why would having Secret Service with her have anything to do with how long she had to visit with Nick?  They are there as protection, right?  Since she is the High and Mighty June Osborne she calls the shots, right?

How does Nick get to Canada with nobody in Gilead knowing and he does not get arrested for war crimes? Because he is the link to Hannah?  He does not seem much like a rebel against Gilead.

[greekmom]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

How does Nick get to Canada with nobody in Gilead knowing and he does not get arrested for war crimes? Because he is the link to Hannah?  He does not seem much like a rebel against Gilead.

Same way the Putmans came to Canada?  I mean there has to be some diplomatic reason or even using the Waterfords as an excuse. He has been to Canada before (as the Waterford's driver).  

I guess the abandoned school was on the Canadian side?

[Haleth]

I was terrified that Nick was going to snatch Nicole and run, with help from Gilead.  Go glad that didn't happen, but I can't completely buy that Nick is a good guy who wants the best for June or that they are star crossed lovers.  Despite the romantic music cues.  I just do not trust him.  (I was waiting for a bombshell reveal that he is now married to Hannah and that he lied to June.)

Is Lawrence playing a long, looooong game?  On the one hand he seems to have re-embraced the culture drank the KoolAid, but when he hung up the phone he appeared to have regrets.  Is he still a decent guy who is trying to help do what he can or is he a selfish bastard who is only trying to save his own skin?  Maybe Hannah will end up with him?  (Surely she won't stay in CO, if she is even really there at all.)

Is Aunt Lydia getting soft?  Is she deliberately delaying Janine's assignment because of guilt?  Did she allow Janine to talk to Esther out of compassion?  (Why is Esther being trained as a handmaid if it's pretty clear she cannot conceive?)

Fred and Serena are pretty stupid, all things considered.  Now there is no place they can live safely.  Not that I sympathize with them.

"Thoughts and prayers."  That was perfect.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Haleth

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Same way the Putmans came to Canada?  I mean there has to be some diplomatic reason or even using the Waterfords as an excuse. He has been to Canada before (as the Waterford's driver).  

I guess the abandoned school was on the Canadian side?

The Putnams were in Canada with Gilead's knowledge and consent.  I can't imagine Nick saying, "oh hey, I'd like to go to Canada to visit my baby mama (oops, wasn't supposed to say that!) who is also the #1 most wanted person in Gilead.  Let the border guards know I'll be there on Thursday." 

How Nick got to Canada is a mystery to me.  How Luke seemed pretty damn sure Nick could easily get into Canada to visit June is also a mystery.  Luke's whole conversation with June about that was so very oddly staged, there has to be a story behind it.  I agree with others - it looked like he was almost suggesting trading Nicole for Hannah, but not quite, and his scene with Hannah as June left was so sweet I couldn't really see that being his intention.  So I'm left with there's something else here, Luke has some knowledge of the system he's not sharing with June yet. 

Did anyone else notice that while Truello told June of the deal with Fred, he said nothing about Serena?  Will Fred leave her hanging, take the baby and let them put her in jail?  If Fred is talking, they don't need Serena and her deal (if there ever really was one) is off the table (again).  I can totally see Fred bargaining away Serena for the baby. 

I like Jeanine and Ester together.  I'm hoping they lead the next Handmaid revolt.  I was surprised by the cruelty of the other aunts.  "Cut out her tongue.  She's not using it."  Damn.  So it's not just Lydia, they're all like that.  What was with the Last Supper style dinner table???  I thought they would pan back and show a room full of handmaids on their knees dutifully watching them eat, or something like that.  But, no, they just eat on one side of a long table for the fun of it?