The Veronica Mars Movie

[Lisin]

Thanks Tara!

[halgia]

That makes sense why they've had so many stories talking about how their producer ran into someone in Brooklyn or bought a car on Long Island. I just trusted that when they said "from WBEZ Chicago" it meant they were in Chicago. :)

[hiccup]

Regarding 

Veronica having Logan's caller id info on her phone. I read an article somewhere that it was a pic of Logan from when he was a teenager, which would explain Veronica having him in her contacts. But I have a hard time believing that, after all these years, and I would assume many phones ago, that his contact info would still be there.

[halgia]

I just realized that I probably should have spoilered my last post, but I guess if you're reading three pages into comment threads a week after the movie came out, you should probably be okay with very minor spoilers of the second scene of the movie. :)

About the picture thing:

I dunno, I think my dad (who doesn't have a Facebook)'s picture in my phone was a 2005-era cameraphone picture until I replaced it a year or two ago. If you sync your phone contacts with your computer it's not that crazy.

[Lisin]

I'm a giant nerd and screen capped the phone picture and 1) it's a totally old picture and 2) I think it may be from the pilot episode, or at least Season 1 I posted it in the EHG thread where they talk about the movie because apparently I'm that person now :) 

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, I mentioned earlier in the thread (I think?) that the script says it's a picture of Logan at age 19. I think it actually might be older than that too, but the point is that Rob intended it to be an old picture of Logan. So I think we're to assume that Veronica has transferred it phone to phone.

[halgia]

Todd VanDerWerff wrote an interesting piece on the movie today (if you count a piece published at midnight as "today"...weird).

[Carrie Ann]

I so fully disagree with this when it comes to VM that I think that's the last article I can stand to read about it. NPR had a similar one, and I've seen a few others--either talking about how we should never revive any property that ends, or about how this is a depressing ending for Veronica, or arguing that she stays in Neptune because of LOGAN, which is so far off the mark I can't even talk about it.

As far as Todd's article: I agree when it comes to something like Friday Night Lights, which I feel completely satisfied by. It had five solid seasons (well, four, plus a terrible season 2), and a real ending. Things were not very unresolved, and they had as much time as they needed to tell their stories.

But with Veronica, obviously people (fans, creators, cast, crew, media) didn't feel that way. It did not feel complete. It didn't feel resolved. And not just that, but having this story be about bringing Veronica back to Neptune doesn't feel ham-fisted to me the way it apparently felt to Todd. It feels right. The trope of a hero staying in a dangerous line of work or a corrupt place because they HAVE to, because it's who they are, is very common. What's not common is having that hero be a woman, and I wonder how much of this criticism we'd hear if Veronica was male as originally intended. Does it suck that she happened to grow up in this shitty town, and that her father and friends still live there? Sure! Just like it sucks that Gotham is so corrupt that Batman has to stick around to keep people in line. 

From my perspective, Veronica has spent the last nine years running away from who she is and what she loves--she makes that pretty clear when she says she's not that person anymore, and then minutes later hops on a plane, and then spends the next week putting off her return to NYC. She would never have been happy being a lawyer in New York. Not for real, not for the long-term. To me, having her return to Neptune feels heroic. It feels triumphant. I don't see that as preventing the character from growing or changing. I see it as allowing her to grow in the most authentic way she can.

[halgia]

Todd apparently thought that "The series finales of Veronica Mars and Arrested Development are both enormously satisfying" – I'd agree with that on Arrested, but not on VM. The finale is a big story that the whole gang gets to take part in, but it only solves a story that started the episode beforehand, and even that is more about Veronica getting revenge than really being about standing up against injustice or helping anyone else or anything. It also does establish that Veronica's life has had enormous costs for Keith, and though it doesn't explicitly do the whole transfer-to-Stanford-stop-being-a-PI stuff (for obvious reasons), it sets that up. But yes: that is totally Veronica going against who she actually is, because she's afraid of the consequences, and it totally feels inevitable that eventually she'd come back on that decision at least somewhat.

But I think part of Todd's criticism is: yes, obviously Veronica is not going to be happy as a New York corporate lawyer protecting big corporations from "frivolous" lawsuits. But the movie sets that up as her only alternative, where really it's not at all. The obvious one is the FBI: that's what the series was obviously aiming for in S3, that's what Rob Thomas was originally planning on, etc. People in the AVC comments talk about how that probably wouldn't have worked because Veronica is fundamentally too anti-establishment, and I think they're probably right. But Rob Thomas said that's not why he rejected that idea: it's because he couldn't think of a way to get Wallace and Mac into that movie.

I think that's the fundamental problem that Todd is complaining about: that these big character decisions are being made without much in-world justification just so the movie can have everyone back from the show. Todd seems to think that being an actual good-guy lawyer, maybe a Cliff but more competent, would work for her. I guess that's fundamentally not so different from being a PI, and Veronica is maybe too devious to really play by lawyer rules.

I do agree that it completely fits with her character to end up back in Neptune. (I don't know if I quite see it being as triumphant as you do: the addiction metaphor frames it as just something that she has to do because of who she is, which I buy.) And, sure, it makes sense that Wallace would end up a teacher at Neptune High. I don't totally buy Mac at Kane Software: if she's supposedly this hotshot programmer, after Sun died she could be anywhere, and there's not a ton tying her to Neptune since she's not that close with her adoptofamily and was never really superfriends with Wallace during the show, but whatever. I also don't entirely buy that Logan is still in Neptune, though if he's mostly off in the Navy then I guess having his time off be around Dick is nice (and Carrie Bishop still lived there for, I don't know, we didn't know her that well – same with, say, Gia). But, though none of these decisions is terrible, having all of them stack up in the same direction feels like a little much.

I did like this movie. I really did. But, imagine for a moment that the Veronicaverse (is there a different name that people use?) stops here: no books, no sequels, no possible Netflix deal, whatever. I think a story about Veronica as an FBI agent, one that completely threw out the structure of the show and just kept Veronica as a character (and whoever else made sense in the story) could have been a better movie, and might have served the character of Veronica better. Then again, it might have sucked – I don't know. I don't think we've seen Rob Thomas pull off any great short, self-contained mysteries so far: the best mystery plotting of the show was all at season-scale, and though many of the cases-of-the-week were fun and intriguing, none of them were really at the level of carrying a movie. It would have been riskier, for sure, which with a big Kickstarter project maybe isn't the right way to go.

[halgia]

Okay, here's one more interesting point of view and then I'm done: Matt Singer on The Dissolve, Why I loved not liking Veronica Mars.

[hiccup]

Thanks Carrie Ann and Lisin, on the phone contact confirmation.  I'm still getting used to the forums here and didn't even see the EHG forum.  Also, I haven't read my copy of the script yet.  Bad fangirl!

[Carrie Ann]

No problem, hiccup--sorry I didn't remember that it was in that thread, not this one!

Dougal, as far as whether things make sense in-universe: I just didn't have many problems with where everyone was. It all felt believable to me. That just comes down to opinion, I suppose. So then a lot of the arguments just boil down to: I wish the movie was about THIS instead of THAT. Or I would like it better if Veronica did THIS instead of THAT. OK, but then our positions would just be reversed. I wouldn't have been AS happy with a movie about Veronica in the FBI with none of her friends around. I love the show not just because of Veronica but because of the world of Neptune. I would have missed that. And if this was the last piece of VM ever, I would only feel more strongly that I'd rather see something that involves more of the characters.

Maybe it would have been a stronger story if instead of a job with a Big Money firm in NY, it was a job with some great nonprofit like the Innocence Project. So she's choosing between helping people in different ways/places. But I think the result would have been the same. She didn't want the life in New York badly enough to leave the investigation in progress. And in the process of continuing the investigation, she saw Weevil, Sacks, and her dad become victims of Neptune's corruption, and I don't think she could turn her back on that. But this isn't a prison sentence. I trust that she is intelligent enough to look at her options and decide whether she'd like to take the CA Bar exam and become a lawyer, maybe after her dad is out of the hospital. She probably won't, because I think she'd rather help people who can't get help within the confines of the (corrupt) legal system, but she does have choices.

(And just to be clear, I know you and I agree on many of these points. I'm arguing with the people making these arguments...if that makes any sense!)

Edited March 21, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[Lisin]

I think she'll take the Bar Exam in CA, I kind of hope that she ends up being a defense attorney and starts her own firm out of her dad's office. There's often firms that have PIs on the books (like Kalinda on Good Wife for example) so it stands to reason that she could sort of be the opposite? She's got more legal knowledge than the cops in Neptune, she's super smart, she could bury them in paperwork and at the same time solve cases. Being a "real" attorney only lends itself more to her goal to clean up the corruption, she can kind of hit them from both sides. I'm just spitballing but I wouldn't have a problem if that's where the story went. 

[hiccup]

Here is part of Rob Thomas' latest update to the backers:

 

 

Last week, I told you that our most important goal was to make a movie that you – our backers – would love. Based on the feedback we've been getting this week, I feel like we succeeded.
But let's be honest: when you spend a year making a movie, you also want it to do well in theaters, and you hope it'll get good reviews from the critics. With opening weekend behind us, I'm relieved to tell you that our movie seems to be succeeding at those goals, too.
As you might have seen, Veronica Mars had a great weekend at the box office. A "great weekend" is a relative term, of course, but I think we did great: for a movie that appeared on fewer than 300 screens and was available on-demand and online, we still made over $2 million at the box office alone. That was enough to put us in the Top 10, and gave us the second-highest per screen average for the weekend.
We also did well with the critics: Veronica Mars has been Certified Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, getting a 76% from critics and 95% from fans. Among critics, the most common complaint is that the movie is "too fan focused," and you know what? I'm okay with that. We've been away a long time. There was some catching up to do, and like many of you, there was a lot that I wanted to see in this movie.
Next time, maybe we'll make a movie that's 100% accessible to audiences who have never seen Veronica Mars. Speaking of which:
I know that a lot of you have been writing, and posting to ask about a sequel: if it will happen, what number we need to hit, whether we'd fund it through another Kickstarter, and so on.
Here's the answer to all of those questions: it's too soon to know.
I know that everyone involved would love to keep on going. I hope that we will. But there's no news on that yet, and it might be a while before we know. I'm so happy to get the seven-year "Will there be a Veronica Mars movie?" monkey off my back, that I could use a little time to savor this moment before launching the "Will there be another Veronica Mars movie?" crusade. Know this: I'd love for it to happen, and early signs are encouraging.

 

[Chip]

This is opening in my town this Friday, so I will get to see it on the big screen.

[Quickbeam]

I have a theater phobe husband so we rented it via Amazon. Absolutely loved it. Thrilled that the easy chemistry was seamless amongst the major players. Story was engaging and Neptune-centric, as it should be. 

[badreputation]

One thing that really bothered me in the movie is the idea that Veronica would be a corporate rather than trial lawyer. It would've presented a much more interesting choice between her staying in Neptune vs returning to New York, while still fitting within her narrative of migrating towards the straight and narrow path. Did it really have to be either Veronica living a life of no thrill vs a life of all thrill?

[Athena]

I saw the movie last night. I came into VM late in the game when it aired, but enjoyed it immensely up until S3. I was never a huge fan like some others, but I was very excited for the movie and have been tracking it. Referencing Todd at AV Club's article above, I usually agree with his work, but I felt this movie delivered a lot of satisfaction for me. I think the ending is a much better one than the S3 finale which was sorta just there for me. I became quite indifferent to Veronica by the end of it, but by the end of the movie, I remembered how it felt to love the character again.

My main criticism of the movie was that there wasn't enough of it. Not just the fan service interactions with Wallace or Mac or even Keith, but it felt genuinely rushed in parts. It was exposition fairy for a lot of it too. Jason Doring did look skinny but still in good shape. A lot of the movie did feel like a backdoor pilot to either another movie or a series which is fine. It made me want it more, but those going into it without much VM would be confused. All the Carrie Bishop/Bonnie DeVille references took me out of the movie mostly because "That's not Leighton Meester!" whom I've always liked.

Things I loved: Enjoyed a lot of the callbacks, fanservice moments, and Neptune in its seedy glory. Like Carrie Ann, I really enjoyed that the movie ended with Veronica accepting who she was. I did not like the addict metaphor, but I agree that a big part of VM's arc has been trying to find stability after what happened to Lilly. Along the way, she changed and her trying to become a safe, corporate lawyer in NYC was her rejecting that change in her. I don't know if she is resigned to it, but she does finally accept that is where she belongs. I liked that she saved herself (love the suspense scenes) in the end without her Dad or Logan in the place.

Actually, Logan saved Keith. As with others, Logan has always fascinated me as a character. I loved the growth he showed through the movie. I could see how the military and being an officer especially would give him structure. I don't know if it was in this thread or the TWOP one that people criticised Logan still being in Neptune after it. I actually think staying in Neptune makes sense because Logan has no family, most of his core childhood friends are gone, and all he has Dick. This is strange, but it must be a comfort for Logan to have a friend like Dick who is just constant and unchanging. Considering all the stuff that went on in Logan's life, I can see how he would want a couple of consistent things. I can't really imagine Logan going all the way somewhere else forever. It'd be very isolating even if he was in the military so it made sense his social/home life would be still centered in Neptune. 

Going to watch the movie again now.

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, as far as anyone still being in Neptune, I believed all of it. It didn't seem far-fetched to me. For Logan, someone explained that his rank means that he has a college degree, so presumably, he's been in the service for about five years. Most of that time would have been spent away from Neptune. Why would he have established a homebase in a new place when he wouldn't even live there very often? It made sense to me that when he's not deployed, he'd just live at Dick's house.

[girlonthepark]

Yay! None of my friends really watched this show or watched the movie so I am happy to have people to bounce things off of.
Thoughts:

1) When I started watching the movie and saw the cast list, I knew who the bad guy was which kind of bummed me out. I mean don't get me wrong, I like Martin Starr but the whole "Hey! This guy was seriously at Neptune High the whole time! You just didn't see him!" thing felt a little obvious to me.
2) The fact that Veronica didn't seem to feel at all bad about breaking up with Piz was sucky. I am not saying that she needed to go into hysterics, but hadn't they been together for a year/weren't they living together? Like any form of protest or a few tears shed would have been nice.
3) The Weevil/Celeste Kane stuff could have been skipped all together. It just felt too open ended for the movie format.
4) Logan felt super-neutered to me. I know they are older and everything but I expected a bit more quipping/a bit more of a spark between him and Veronica and I felt a little bit like the movie traded on the currency of their previous relationship too much. Like if I were just watching this and hadn't seen the series, I would wonder what the big deal was about them as a couple together.

I overall liked the movie (and LOVED being able to watch it from home - having a small child makes theatre visits few and far between) but I wasn't as bowled over by it as many fans were.

[AzraelKay]

I loved the movie and bought the soundtrack, but now I am having trouble remembering what scenes the various songs played in.  I remember Holding My Breath, b/c that was supposed to be Bonnie/Carrie; We Used to Friends was at the beginning; and of course, I remember where the Lou Rawls song played -- kinda hard to forget that one! I think Stick Up by Max was in the post-reunion party scene.  But I can't remember the scenes for the other songs -- any one else know?

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, I think I know most of them. Here's the tracklist and where they were used:

• We Used To Be Friends (Alejandro Escovedo): busker outside Piz's office
• Go Captain and Pinlighter (Emperor X): Veronica's arrival at the airport and V/P breakup scene
• Holding My Breath (Mr. Twin Sister): in videos of Bonnie and Ruby karaoke
• All Around and Away We Go (Mr. Twin Sister): at the 09er, Ruby dances to it
• Criminal (ZZ Ward featuring Freddie Gibbs): at the 09er, while douches are hitting on Veronica
• Chicago (Sufjan Stevens): Veronica and Logan "take the long way home" in his convertible
• Stick Up (Max): Reunion after-party at Gia's
• Never Give In (Mackintosh Braun): Same, also used briefly at the 09er
• Prosthetic Love (Typhoon): Logan drives Veronica home from the hospital, make-out/sex scene
• You’ll Never Find Another Love Like Mine (Lou Rawls):

• Second Chances (Gregory Alan Isakov): Logan leaves for duty
• We Used To Be Friends (The Dandy Warhols): credits

Edited April 3, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[eringogreen]

I watched the movie before I watched the series (and I did watch the entire series). It didn't ruin the series for me, so I recommend it if anyone is questioning doing that.

 

Since I didn't have any backstory, nothing really stuck with me. I didn't know anything about the Lilly Kane story, what happened with Veronica's mom, whether Veronica's dad ended up being sheriff or not (seriously, the really big things that I'm sure were revealed with the movie, did not stick with me when I went to watch the show).

 

I did not like Logan in the movie because he seemed too soft and old (without me knowing who Logan was or that he was supposed to be the "bad boy." Seriously, I thought he was just some meek geeky dude). I didn't like that Veronica left the perfectly nice and good looking guy for him. And I felt sad that she ended up losing the NY opportunity to stay in Neptune.

 

After watching the series, it's clear to me that both Logan and Piz are terrible for Veronica. Veronica's dating life is terrible. Veronica and Logan have always had an unhealthy aspect to their relationship and Veronica turns into a "typical" girl when she is with him - jealous, suspicious, needy, etc. She's not the kick-ass Veronica that we know her to be on her own. With her trust issues, she needs to be with someone else. And Piz doesn't cut it, because you can tell she doesn't really feel anything for Piz and Piz is much too needy for someone independent like Veronica. It's sort of annoying that in 10 years since the show ended she hadn't met someone different that is actually a good match for her.

 

And I'm more satisfied with her staying in Neptune after watching the show. It's who Veronica is. She wouldn't be as satisfied as a lawyer just because of the big title in the big city.

[scarynikki12]

 

he gets off on the charges anyway

This is from a few months back and originally under a spoiler bar.  I think it's safe to respond out in the open.  

 

Weevil didn't get off on the charges against him.  That's what he and Veronica were talking about in their final scene: that the man claiming that he sold Weevil the gun was sticking to his story, meaning that the charges were still active.  That set up the reveal that Weevil had gone back to his old bike gang.  

 

Also, this subplot is where it really did help to know the series.  Without spoiling major things: Celeste, the woman who shot Weevil, is the mother of Lilly Kane, whose murder is the entire premise of the story.  She's very much a ranked officer in Neptune's class war and absolutely hates Weevil.  So, when we see that she was the one who shot him, and then learn that he was set up as trying to assault her, show watchers get another layer that movie-only watchers don't: that this woman who has looked down on, and hated, this man for over a decade clearly took the opportunity to get back at him for who he is and where he grew up.  Despite their history, all she had to do was say that the other gang members had scared her so much that she shot without thinking (and is damn lucky it wasn't an off duty cop trying to help her cause the outcome would have been very different), and was very sorry.  Instead, she and the police frame him.  The basics of it set up Weevil for the book series and further show just how accurate Veroinca Mars Voice Over was by saying that Neptune will be ground zero when the class war comes.

 

 

Veronica turns into a "typical" girl when she is with him - jealous, suspicious, needy, etc.

I don't know that I'd ever describe Veronica as needy around Logan (Duncan, sure) but the reasons she didn't trust him had to do with the hell she'd gone through since Lilly's murder AND the fact that Logan often was directly involved, first as an antagonist and then as a participant.  The whole reason they broke up between seasons 1 and 2 is because he and his 09er gang kept fighting the class warfare that erupted when Felix was killed.  He didn't commit the murder, of course, and rightfully got off, but he didn't have to set the community pool on fire or otherwise embrace the tensions in Neptune.  I like that Logan grew and calmed down by the movie, and I loved that she didn't even blink before believing in his innocence (showing how far she'd come herself), but he really earned his share of Veronica's mistrust during the series.  I wouldn't describe it as typical girl.  Actually, the only time I'd ever describe Veronica Mars as a typical girl is the sweet, naive, trusting, girl who died the day Lilly did.  

 

I saw this movie a few times, in theaters and with friends on computers, and I have no issue with Veronica's lack of upset when the relationship with Piz ended.  I think that she was sorry that she couldn't be the girlfriend he wanted but she would never been as into him as he was to her, and thus no emotional turmoil when it was over.  A buddy of mine still judges her for sleeping with Logan the night after the Piz break up but I strongly believe that she wouldn't have jumped back into that relationship had Keith not been on death's door.  If Sach's (sob!) murder had happened that night, but Keith was otherwise ok, then I think Veronica would still be making slow steps toward getting back with Logan (with maybe a kiss before his deployment).  But, she was feeling vulnerable, scared, and wanting to cling to anything and anyone who made her feel happy, so she threw caution to the wind and reunited with Logan quickly instead of slowly.  

 

I still really dislike Piz and see him as a better acted Duncan 2.0.  Both characters are classic Good Guy tropes, who seem to be decent on the surface but, in different degrees, aren't.  Duncan was way shadier, in the way he dumped Veronica, that they'd slept together at Shelly's party, or that he thought she was his sister.  Piz, on the other hand, is that guy who likes a girl and then judges her for not returning his feelings and I hate that.  Either ask the girl out or let your feelings go!  Don't be Judgey McJudgerson because you think she's hot and then you find out she has a boyfriend.  Also, he disliked her going to help Logan, not because he believed he was guilty, but because Logan was her ex.  Meanwhile, if the situations were reversed and he was the one in trouble, Veronica would absolutely help him if he called (though not get back together as Piz is too safe for the long term).  That he had known her for almost a decade and still didn't understand that she's at her best when she's fighting for something or someone tells me that he never bothered to get to know HER, he just thought she was hot and liked telling stories about her to his parents and strangers.  Good riddance.

[Kel Varnsen]

I think she'll take the Bar Exam in CA, I kind of hope that she ends up being a defense attorney and starts her own firm out of her dad's office. There's often firms that have PIs on the books (like Kalinda on Good Wife for example) so it stands to reason that she could sort of be the opposite? She's got more legal knowledge than the cops in Neptune, she's super smart, she could bury them in paperwork and at the same time solve cases. Being a "real" attorney only lends itself more to her goal to clean up the corruption, she can kind of hit them from both sides. I'm just spitballing but I wouldn't have a problem if that's where the story went. 

I think she talks about that either in the movie, or in the book. If she were to become an actual member of the bar it would severely limit how she could investigate cases. I mean lawyers have to follow a code of ethics so the first time she breaks into someone's house to gather evidence (like say in the movie) all it would take is one call to the bar society and she could be disciplined or disbarred all together. 

[blackCatCollins]

i tried to read back to see if this has been discussed and i couldn't find anything, so forgive me if this is a repeat

 

having now watched this movie 10+ times, the annoyances of the Carrie Bishop/not Leighton and Weevil/Celeste storylines have faded but one thing keeps bugging me- were we supposed to think Mac and Wallace were a couple? they arrived everywhere together, and there was a coupley way about Wallace deferring to Mac to share her news about working at Kane Software. this is not me saying i wanted to make them a couple, there was just something about all their introductions and interactions that made me think we were supposed to view them that way.

 

am i alone in this? 

[bettername2come]

I don't think we were supposed to think they were a couple since Wallace went off to talk to some girl at the reunion because they were both still single. Nothing in the book indicates they've ever been more than friends. I do think we're supposed to believe they've become closer friends in the intervening years. Which makes sense, because they were friends in season three, and they would have still gone to college together. There's also a shortage of decent friends in Neptune, so I can see them hanging out more in Veronica's absence.

[blackCatCollins]

oh you're right, i had totally forgotten about Alexis Ling!

 

i guess it was just a much different vibe then i was used to seeing between the two of them. 

[Mya Stone]

I finally got to watch the movie, and I loved it. It felt like coming home.

My fiancée, who has never watched the show, had only this to say. "It needed more Dick."

[divaTy]

How did Stu get from his apartment all the way to Gia's apartment so quickly?

[Lisin]

He lived in the same apartment complex, he was just across the way and could see in her windows.

[divaTy]

Oh I was thinking he was across the street.

[paramitch]

Speaking as a fan of the show from back in the day, I thought the movie was the perfect balance between stand-alone mystery and fan-service love-letter. I loved it. Same old Veronica, loved seeing all the characters we'd loved back in the day, and once again in a story with a seedy, seamy underside and the usual combination of tragedy and humor and bittersweet nuance.

 

...having this story be about bringing Veronica back to Neptune doesn't feel ham-fisted to me the way it apparently felt to Todd. It feels right. The trope of a hero staying in a dangerous line of work or a corrupt place because they HAVE to, because it's who they are, is very common. What's not common is having that hero be a woman, and I wonder how much of this criticism we'd hear if Veronica was male as originally intended. Does it suck that she happened to grow up in this shitty town, and that her father and friends still live there? Sure! Just like it sucks that Gotham is so corrupt that Batman has to stick around to keep people in line. 

From my perspective, Veronica has spent the last nine years running away from who she is and what she loves--she makes that pretty clear when she says she's not that person anymore, and then minutes later hops on a plane, and then spends the next week putting off her return to NYC. She would never have been happy being a lawyer in New York. Not for real, not for the long-term. To me, having her return to Neptune feels heroic. It feels triumphant. I don't see that as preventing the character from growing or changing. I see it as allowing her to grow in the most authentic way she can.

 

I loved this post and really agreed with everything you said -- I thought the movie did a pretty complex and nuanced job of showing that while Veronica's new life appeared to be perfect, it was in its own way simply a total frantic escape attempt. Which, fine, we all do that -- but in her case it had cut her off from what was best in her. I thought it made total sense for her to return to her previous job, friends, boyfriend, and commitment to speaking up for those victimized by the class wars in Neptune.

 

But I think part of Todd's criticism is: yes, obviously Veronica is not going to be happy as a New York corporate lawyer protecting big corporations from "frivolous" lawsuits. But the movie sets that up as her only alternative, where really it's not at all. The obvious one is the FBI: that's what the series was obviously aiming for in S3, that's what Rob Thomas was originally planning on, etc. People in the AVC comments talk about how that probably wouldn't have worked because Veronica is fundamentally too anti-establishment, and I think they're probably right. But Rob Thomas said that's not why he rejected that idea: it's because he couldn't think of a way to get Wallace and Mac into that movie.

I think that's the fundamental problem that Todd is complaining about: that these big character decisions are being made without much in-world justification just so the movie can have everyone back from the show. Todd seems to think that being an actual good-guy lawyer, maybe a Cliff but more competent, would work for her. I guess that's fundamentally not so different from being a PI, and Veronica is maybe too devious to really play by lawyer rules.

I do agree that it completely fits with her character to end up back in Neptune. (I don't know if I quite see it being as triumphant as you do: the addiction metaphor frames it as just something that she has to do because of who she is, which I buy.) And, sure, it makes sense that Wallace would end up a teacher at Neptune High. I don't totally buy Mac at Kane Software: if she's supposedly this hotshot programmer, after Sun died she could be anywhere, and there's not a ton tying her to Neptune since she's not that close with her adoptofamily and was never really superfriends with Wallace during the show, but whatever. I also don't entirely buy that Logan is still in Neptune, though if he's mostly off in the Navy then I guess having his time off be around Dick is nice

 

I think you bring up a lot of great points, but I would first off argue that Veronia's "addict" voiceover is about what she wants to be true. She wants to see all of her impulses to return as unhealthy and bad because it's the easiest way to compartmentalize and move on in NYC. But what I feel the movie convincingly shows is that while this might be possible for others, it is simply not something Veronica can live with. She's not returning home because she's an addict; she's returning because she's a hero and she is built to be someone who fights for those who deserve justice. So for me, her return is pretty much that of a superhero who will, like her father, carry on the good fight.

 

I thought most of the character notes were similarly believable. I could buy that Mac stayed for a pile of money to work for Kane software -- she has the skills, and the movie makes clear that she and Wallace are very close friends (now for 10 years) at this point. It's not out of the realm of possibility that she would stay. Same with Logan -- who to me appears to have left (the Navy is a great way to do that -- I'm speaking as a Navy brat) but to have maintained tenuous ties that he just couldn't quite sever.

 

One thing that really bothered me in the movie is the idea that Veronica would be a corporate rather than trial lawyer. It would've presented a much more interesting choice between her staying in Neptune vs returning to New York, while still fitting within her narrative of migrating towards the straight and narrow path. Did it really have to be either Veronica living a life of no thrill vs a life of all thrill?

 

I bought this though, because it's another subtle way in which Veronica is running so far from who she was that she doesn't see that she's lost touch with her essential core.

 

...this [Weevil] subplot is where it really did help to know the series.  Without spoiling major things: Celeste, the woman who shot Weevil, is the mother of Lilly Kane, whose murder is the entire premise of the story.  She's very much a ranked officer in Neptune's class war and absolutely hates Weevil.  So, when we see that she was the one who shot him, and then learn that he was set up as trying to assault her, show watchers get another layer that movie-only watchers don't: that this woman who has looked down on, and hated, this man for over a decade clearly took the opportunity to get back at him for who he is and where he grew up.  Despite their history, all she had to do was say that the other gang members had scared her so much that she shot without thinking (and is damn lucky it wasn't an off duty cop trying to help her cause the outcome would have been very different), and was very sorry.  Instead, she and the police frame him.  The basics of it set up Weevil for the book series and further show just how accurate Veroinca Mars Voice Over was by saying that Neptune will be ground zero when the class war comes.

 

I agree with this, and liked the touches of both having Weevil show up again with a life that had been hard-won and worthy of respect, and yet again, it barely mattered when it came to Neptune, and the city brought him down again as soon as it could. Weevil's story isn't center to the VM movie but I'm really glad it was there, and it made me incredibly sad, while also providing another powerful reason for Veronica to stay -- people like Weevil.

 

Ultimately, I really liked the movie, loved many many moments, and felt like I was visiting old friends again. I also like Veronica and Logan together -- I never hated Piz, and found him cute and charming, but he was just too cottony-soft for someone as tough as Veronica. I like her with someone who has her same kind of wit and edge, so I was happy to see her reconnect with Logan.

[stillshimpy]

It must be my week to chime in super-duper late on nearly everything.  It's the final quarter of the year and that means I'm an accountancy widow, pretty much through the New Year, so I spend my time catching up on TV and the conversations about them more than I would otherwise.  

 

I was also one of the people who received the DVD and some stuff, so I saw the movie quite some time ago, but the other day when I was doing a cool-down from a workout, and switched back to cable, my favorite scene from the movie came up and it's an entirely weird one:  Piz on the street in NYC, with his parents in the background.  It took all the way until the last seconds of his character's existence in the narrative to achieve person status, vs. "you feel like a fictional construct, the alternative to the bad boy, the good lad!" and it was a really neat choice that made it finally happen.  Piz finally did something that had nothing whatsoever to do with Veronica in terms of his emotional universe: while Veronica is sort of busy making it abundantly clear that whereas she friend-loves him and wants to have him be the guy who is right for her, he's sort of like the "eat your vegetables" choice.  Good for you. Wholesome.  Everything you are supposed to want to live the emotionally healthy life, Piz has a moment where there's more than one "want.Veronica" thing going on for him.  It's when he says he has to go let his mom off the hook about her blow-out fading before Veronica can get there.  

 

Just that evidence that Piz had an emotional tie, priority or even pull for someone who wasn't Veronica made me like him.  Not as a partner for Veronica, but as a human being and I have to hand it to Chris Lowell, he sold the living out of that line without overselling it.  Little waver to his voice, slight strain at the back of his throat going on, and he looks like a guy telling himself he has to keep it together, because he doesn't want to turn around with a freshly broken heart and worry his mom.  It's what was always missing from Piz for me: evidence that he had a world of his own, outside of liking Veronica. 

 

I enjoyed the movie.  Sure, it was fan-service and it had thin bits because of that.  One too many cameos, a rather baffling decision on the recast for Leighton's character (when the actress wasn't available, they should have tweaked the story).  

 

I loved that Veronica stayed because it felt like something I could believe the character would do.  The story struck a nice balance between how much people change from late adolescence to actual adulthood and how there are aspects of a person that will remain through that last, tumultuous roar of development.  Like Logan, who had so many real reasons to be unhappy and acting out when he was younger, finding his way to peace by forcing structure into his life.  I felt sorry for Dohring, in that he certainly had the least interesting task: being the person who improves wildly through choices.  One of the more interesting things about being an adult is the realization that you can choose to actually change barring something like being a true sociopath, people can just make better choices and adults are less at the whim of their own internal confusion.  

 

I think that best aspect of the movie is that Veronica makes her choices at the end in exactly that matter.  She tried reconstructing herself into who she thought she was supposed to be, almost seemingly as penance for the last season when she accidentally cost Keith the election, but it was never going to fit someone who wanted to try and battle injustice where she first encountered it.  

 

I get Todd's complaint, but I think it also discounts how someone really shaped both by their nature and their environment and no matter where Veronica went, clearly she wasn't going to be happy as a corporate lawyer, there would be a part of her that would always feel like she could have and should have done more.  Veronica would always have to keep part of herself on mute in order to be at peace with what felt like running away.  In her flight of fight impulse, she's always a person who chose fighting and taking flight would never give her true peace.   

 

Unlike Logan who needed structure to quiet his personal demons, Veronica needs battle.  So I felt like the movie really did that aspect of her character justice.  

 

Admittedly, this movie might have benefited in my eyes from the weirdest thing:  The Dead Like Me movie.  A follow-up movie so unspeakably bad that I pretend it never happened.  It set the gold standard for "as long as a follow up movie doesn't fuck up so badly that you can't bear the thought of it, then it's a success!"  The bar was set so low by that, but I don't think the Veronica Mars Movie was solely good by those standards, it was good by the standards of doing right by the actual lead character.  

Edited November 6, 2014 by stillshimpy

[VCRTracking]

Just watched it. Holy crap I can't believe

Martin Starr

was the murderer!

 

Loved seeing Veronica, Mac and Wallace together again.

 

I don't think it was necessary for Leighton Meester to come back as Carrie, since it was a brief role as the victim but it would have been nice. 

 

Oh Dick, I actually envy the way you blissfully go through life.

 

The James Franco cameo was hilarious as was Dax Shepard and his flirty dancing. I also liked seeing Sue from The Middle as Franco's assistant.

 

 

having now watched this movie 10+ times, the annoyances of the Carrie Bishop/not Leighton and Weevil/Celeste storylines have faded but one thing keeps bugging me- were we supposed to think Mac and Wallace were a couple? they arrived everywhere together, and there was a coupley way about Wallace deferring to Mac to share her news about working at Kane Software. this is not me saying i wanted to make them a couple, there was just something about all their introductions and interactions that made me think we were supposed to view them that way.

I actually did for a moment when they arrived at the house all dressed up and Keith was implying Veronica was slow to pick up on something.

Edited December 9, 2014 by VCRTracking

[Carrie Ann]

I loved that their closeness was evident and believable enough to make you wonder whether they were a couple, but I was okay that they aren't together. Yet. Because yeah, their interactions kinda made me ship it. I wouldn't have shipped HS or College Wallace/Mac, but Adult Wallace/Mac totally works for me.

 

I think I said earlier here that one of the things I really liked about the movie was how the characters had changed, but in ways that tracked with their previous characterization, and the Mac/Wallace dynamic is one example of that. Logan was the only one who was shockingly different, but that was intentional. (I do still wish we'd seen more of that mischievous, glittery-eyed Logan that I know and love, but I also get that it would have sort of undercut how traumatized he was supposed to be.) (But if we get some hints in the upcoming book that that guy still exists inside him, I will be pleased.)

[Kel Varnsen]

So I watched it this past weekend again and there was something that I wasn't 100% clear on (surprised I didn't pick up on it the first time). Did Cobb actually kill Carrie himself or did Gia & Luke with Cobb blackmailing them? Because at the end Veronica spills her big theory to Gia, and Gia explains the whole back story and then she is killed. But if you replace Luke with Cobb in Veronica's theory I am not really sure it works. Because would the guards let that dude into her estate, and would he know the alarm code?

 

Also it still bugs me that the extension cord or whatever in the tub was able to electrocute Logan, are electricians/building inspectors in Neptune as corrupt as the cops? Don't they install breaker panels in houses?

[scarynikki12]

Cobb killed Carrie himself.  Gia didn't explicitly confirm that she drove him to Carrie's in the trunk but the cinematography tells me that we're to believe Veronica's theory even if she originally thought it was Luke.  So, Gia distracts Carrie while Cobb sneaks into her house and he waits for the agreed upon time.  Then he electrocutes Carrie and leaves her subdivision as if he lives there.  It wouldn't be hard to believe that the guards wouldn't think to mention a man leaving the premises shortly before the murder when the Logan frame job was so well done (now, I would think they'd mention it after Logan was cleared and Cobb arrested).  I assume that Cobb either had a cab or Luke waiting to pick him up and get him to the 09er fast enough so that there wouldn't be much of a delay between her death and Logan showing up.  Also, Logan mentioned that everyone knew Carrie's alarm code, so that would include her blackmailer.

 

My only theory on the extension cord is that she had tools and other mechanical items on the premises for her landscaper and/or handyman to use when necessary and Cobb set up the electrocution with said items. 

 

One thing I noticed the other day when rewatching is that I cannot see the anchor when I look at the photo of Carrie and Susan.  I can clearly see the lack of one in the black and white that Veronica had but both photos look to be anchor less so I wish the movie had lingered on the before photo long enough to make this clear.  I believe Veronica but I just can't see it myself.

[Kel Varnsen]

It makes sense that Cobb did the murder and just blackmailed Gia to be his accomplice. Although I found it interesting that Veronica's theory wasn't really confirmed. Gia just confirmed that Cobb was the mastermind. Not that it matters, I mean if he actually killed Carrie or if he blackmailed Luke and Gia to do it, he is still guilty of murder.

My only theory on the extension cord is that she had tools and other mechanical items on the premises for her landscaper and/or handyman to use when necessary and Cobb set up the electrocution with said items. 

My point about the extension cord is, if you throw one in a bath tub it might kill the person instantly (might) but bathroom outlets should have ground fault interrupters, which would trip and shut off the current. If not the breaker in the breaker panel should trip before Logan gets there. That's what breakers are for.

 

Then again considering the sprinkler system at the reunion worked like no real sprinkler  system would (holding a lighter up to a sprinkler head should set off that head only), so maybe the contractors and building inspectors are just as corrupt.

[swtrgrl]

After marathoning all of the TV series over about 4 days (why the hell did I resist this for so long?!), I watched the movie and loved it. It was totally fan service but you know what? That's what it should have been since the fans paid for the damn thing. I read both the books this weekend..and I liked them, too).

*Logan was exactly what he should have been: staid and scared and a grown up. (the books get into his post high school history and what led him to university and military)

*Bye, Piz. I never disliked you. I just disliked you with Veronica. You weren't epic enough. (sorry)

*While frustrated about it, I completely understand Keith's concern/ire about Veronica dumping her NYC life. He wanted her to escape Neptune and all the crap that comes with it...and the stuff he knows is coming (He didn't share with her the depths of the police corruption, I don't think).

*I kinda got the Mac/Wallace vibe for a second, too. It's not a thing but I wouldn't hate it for the future books.

*I loved all of the show throwbacks with characters and phrases. I wish it were realistic to have Backup there. 

[Hanahope]

I liked the movie in general, it did seem like a two hour episode.  But I have to quibble with a bit of the NYC attorney job set up.  At her interview, they said she's 6 weeks from taking the bar exam.  Presumably Veronica's trip back to Neptune and such all took place before the bar exam, meaning that the lawfirm wishing to hire her asked her to start working before the bar exam.  That doesn't happen.  Most lawfirms would not hire a prospective attorney until after they have at least taken the bar exam, or at least wouldn't expect them to start working at the firm before the bar exam because they know the person is likely spending 90% of their time studying for the bar exam (well, people not VM).  And they'd likely send out an offer in writing, though even with a phone call, they would not ask to have the person start in 2-3 days.

 

Its also pretty unrealistic that she'd be interviewing after graduating law school, the vast majority of major law firms do their hiring in the late summer or early fall of the law student's third year, and most actually make those offers based on summer law clerkships the students did the summer after their second year, and the interviews for those jobs are mostly done in the late summer/early fall right before the second year of law school.  Really, someone with VM's presumed credentials, would already have had a job lined up 9 months earlier, likely based on her previous summer employment.  This isn't how every lawfirm hires, but a lawfirm of the presumed 'status' as the one VM was interviewing with, would have followed that procedure.

 

So that whole dilemma VM has about the job was kinda stupid.  The only thing realistic about her dilemma is worrying about paying off her student loans.  With 3 years at Stanford and 3 years at Columbia, she probably owes over $100,000 and that's a lot to cover as a PI.  She certainly could take the CA bar exam, but a poster is right that she'd have to be a heck of a lot more careful in her 'investigations' due to ethics requirements.

 

Having just finished S3, of course, I'm wondering about the hanging plotlines.  I presume Keith didn't win the election, but nothing about what happened to Vinny, who presumably did, but is now back to doing whatever that was.  And Dan Lamb was the "older" brother of Don Lamb?  Say what?  I would have accepted younger, I guess, though way to introduce someone in a major role we'd never heard of before.  And nothing about why VM wasn't with the FBI?  Or why all of a suddent she transferred to Stanford (don't those things have to be sortof in the works before the summer started?).

 

I wasn't sure if Logan was with Air Force or Navy, but I thought the line used by VM was a call back to An Officer and a Gentleman, not A Few Good Men.  I could be wrong.  Logan definitely looked almost too skinny.  He and VM have great chemistry, so not surprised she came back to him.

 

I could have done without Piz, frankly.  But great seeing a bunch of the other old cast, Wallace, Mac (where's Max?), the principal, Madison (hah), Dick of course, Leo, Stach (sob), Weevill.  It was nice that Weevill did go straight, at least for a while. 

 

Good mystery.  Sorry to see Gia died.  Did the coroner seriously not determine the actual time of Bonnie's death? Did they have no imagination but to make her a Katy Perry clone?

 

Ok, so onto the books now.  Only the first is from my local library, so we'll see how it goes to determine if I'll have to buy the second.

 

Edited to add further thoughts:

 

The timeline to try and prosecute Logan doesn't work.  Any good defense attorney would be able to blow holes in any theory presented by the prosecution. 

 

What's the prosecution's theory?  Logan entered the house, setting off the alarm, and Bonnie/Claire just waited in her bathtub for Logan to come in where he threw an extension cord that he just happened to have into the bathtub and also somehow shocked himself too?  That makes no sense.  If you are alone in your house, in a bathtub, and your alarm goes off, you get out of the tub, put a robe on and see what's up.  Or you lock the bathroom door and call the cops or just let the phone ring from the security company. 

 

If they claim Logan attacked her as she got out of the tub, there was apparently no defensive wounds on Claire, nor any wounds on Logan that evidence a physical altercation, nor any mess in the bathroom that indicated a fight.  Surely Claire would have fought back if Logan tried to push her into the tub to electrocute her, again assuming he happened to have that extension cord handy.  Most people don't use/keep extension cords in a bathroom, even big bathrooms, and no reason to think that Logan would have brought one with him, somehow guessing Claire was taking a bath.

 

There wasn't time for him to otherwise subdue her and create the bathtub electrocution scene, since the cops/security company presumably responded to the alarm right away.

 

And, as another poster stated, the ground fault circuits in the bathroom should have turned off any other electricity to the plug in which the extension cord was plugged, so Logan shouldn't have gotten shocked at all.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Hanahope

[amensisterfriend]

I just saw the movie and loved it a million times more than I expected to! I'd been feeling sort of disillusioned with the series in general and Veronica/Logan in particular, but the movie somehow reminded me of why I first fell in love with this show. I'm crossing my fingers for a sequel :) 

[Lisin]

I wasn't sure if Logan was with Air Force or Navy, but I thought the line used by VM was a call back to An Officer and a Gentleman, not A Few Good Men.  I could be wrong.  Logan definitely looked almost too skinny.  He and VM have great chemistry, so not surprised she came back to him.

 

 

It's the Navy for sure. And a definite A Few Good Men reference, which I only know because I've seen that movie a million times. (warning, salty language in the first clip below) 

 

 

[John Potts]

I finally got around to watching the DVD of this (because my internet was down!) and it was... OK. I did think some of the cameos were rather pointless (I never cared about Piz... and apparently Veronica didn't either and what were the odds that Weevil would run into Celeste?) but overall, the whole metaphor of "PI'ing is Veronica's addiction!" actually worked for me. I was reminded of Veronica walking out of her exam (and losing out on the Kane scholarship as a result) because she just had to hear Aaron's verdict. One thing that didn't work for me was the way the murderer was tipped off that Veronica was onto him by a set of highly contrived circumstances. I mean, not only was (Spoiled for those who haven't seen the movie)

Spoiler

1) The bug transmitting on the same frequency as a local radio station, but

2) The murderer walked past a guy that just happened to have just listened to that station, and

3) The "Good job on hitting that!" dude could recognise the murderer just based on hearing his voice.

It wasn't even necessary, because he could have just heard it over the radio himself - OK, still somewhat contrived, but involving another person was just ridiculous.

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2014 at 2:05 AM, blackCatCollins said:

were we supposed to think Mac and Wallace were a couple? they arrived everywhere together, and there was a coupley way about Wallace deferring to Mac to share her news about working at Kane Software. this is not me saying i wanted to make them a couple, there was just something about all their introductions and interactions that made me think we were supposed to view them that way.

I thought so too. I don't ship them particularly, but I had no problem seeing them together and was wondering if I was meant to!

ETA: I also didn't mind that Vinnie was no longer Sheriff. Don Lamb was corrupt but also cunning - Vinnie was just corrupt. I figure he'd either get caught doing something TPTB couldn't overlook or just ask too much money for his "services" and lose the support of his paymasters.

Edited June 18, 2019 by John Potts

[EyewatchTV211]

I don't think we were supposed to assume Wallace and Mac were a couple. They outright reference Wallace looking for another woman at the reunion because they had made a promise that if they were both single by then things could "get interesting" or something like that.

[bettername2come]

On 6/18/2019 at 3:21 PM, VMepicgrl said:

I don't think we were supposed to assume Wallace and Mac were a couple. They outright reference Wallace looking for another woman at the reunion because they had made a promise that if they were both single by then things could "get interesting" or something like that.

I will say, I got the sense that they have dated at some point in the past ten years. Or maybe they just needed a new best friend when Veronica moved. But they definitely seem closer.

[Desperado]

I’m on episode 6 of the new series but I had to rewatch the movie before finishing. I really like the movie and how thy kept to the season 1 essence.

Spoiler

They really shouldn’t have killed Gia however. 

[alexvillage]

I am new to VM and watched the previous seasons, am watching the new one. Is there a way to watch the movie?

[dargosmydaddy]

According to Justwatch, it streams on HBOGo, and can be rented or purchased from AmazonPrime, GooglePlay, etc.

https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/veronica-mars

You could probably also find the DVD for cheap somewhere...

[EyewatchTV211]

On 8/16/2019 at 7:20 AM, alexvillage said:

I am new to VM and watched the previous seasons, am watching the new one. Is there a way to watch the movie?

It should be on Hulu.