S02.E07: If You Could See Her Through My Eyes

[maraleia]

 

Datak is framed for a bizarre murder and turns to an unlikely ally for help; Irisa discovers more about her destiny after encountering a mysterious stranger.

 

[Chaos Theory]

I love this show more then is healthy for a science fiction show on the SYFY Channel.

 

Datak and Rafe the new super couple..  If only we had some Stahma  and Amanda scenes my day would have been complete.

 

Handling something in the Tarr family sounded ominous in all the right ways.  And when Datak promises something to the wife....he certainly delivers.

 

"I'm Indogene I am Squirrely by nature."   Even with only a few scenes Doc Yewell delivers as usual.

 

Its good to know some things don't change even in the apocalyptic/Alien future.  Like stealing someones husband.

 

I still don't really care about the Irisa stuff but it is nice to know that Nolan is aware at least.  

[wanderingstar]

Christie really wants to be a Stahma clone, doesn't she? I can kind of understand it: Stahma is pretty awesome. But maybe the Casti dress-up route isn't the right way to go.

 

Datak and Rafe the new super couple..

 

 

I am stunned at how much I'm loving these two together. When they were dragging poor Jalina's body to Hellbug territory, I smiled a little. They may be my new OTP for this show.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Gillian Rosh

[CletusMusashi]

This was the funniest episode they've ever done.

 

Love the buddy cop dynamic developing between Datak and Rafe.

"Don't kill him." "I promised the wife." (shrug.)

 

The Irathient Jewish lawyer would be offensive if the actor weren't so funny. And, let's face it, anything that can put a little bit of humor into an Irissa scene is a good thing. Plus, at least they're shamelessly owning up to their stereotypes. They're not trying to have it both ways, like certain other shows. (Cough! Ferengi! Cough! Cough!)

 

 Yewll really is getting squirrely. Understandable. When you've got as many big things to worry about as she does, you really can't afford to sweat the little stuff. Including, for example, doctor/patient confidentiality in regards to a racist serial killer-for-profit.

 

And Mercado. Oh, Mercado. I am so sorry I ever thought you were duller than Pottinger. Weren't we all saying just last week how we wished the show would turn into more of a Castithan transvestite musical? No? Just me then? Well, in any case, mission nearly accomplished. All he needs now is backup dancers.

Edited August 1, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[sjohnson]

William Atherton will be playing Hedwig and the Angry Inch next season.

 

And Robin Dunne! Now I'm interested in Irisa's story line. 

 

Poor Christie has Rafe's IQ. If she was smarter she'd realize she doesn't want Alak to love her, she wants out.

[thuganomics85]

Aw, Rafe and Datak are bonding!  Sure, it's over the best way to dispose of a body and unleashing some vigilante justice on a crazy, killer doctor, but still!  Progress!  That doctor totally wished he just let Nolan and Irisa arrest him, after Datak got his hands on him.  It was nice that both Datak and Stahma really did seem to love the handmaiden, and she wasn't just something that could be easily replaced.

 

Ah, so that's the DJ's big play.  She wants to be Alak's "princess."  Not surprised Alak didn't take Christie's extra curricular well at all, and he's already stepping out on the marriage.  But, just what is going on with Christie?  The fact she picked Stahma has her "name" at the club, makes me wonder if that was the only name she could think of, or if she admires Stahma in some way.  Either way, all the stuff with her and Mercado is crazy, but kind of awesome.  He really gets into it, huh?

 

So, Irisa meets this Irathient lawyer, who looks like the guy she is seeing in the spaceship/flashbacks/whatever the hell they are.  I'm sure he'll be back again.  Cool to see Rynn again, even if she's down one eye, sadly.  Meanwhile, Nolan finally has had it, and freaking body-slams Irisa, and cuts her hand, to see that she does have healing powers.  I'm glad that's all in the open now.

 

Doc Yewll was on fire tonight.  A lot of great lines, as always.

[wanderingstar]

Doc Yewll was on fire tonight.  A lot of great lines, as always.

 

 

My personal favorite:

 

Datak (about Jalina): I adored her!

 

Yewll: That's one way to put it.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Gillian Rosh

[BungalowSummer]

Poor Rynn can't catch a break. I was hoping Doc Yewll would be able to graft her cornea back.

Christie is a childish idiot. She married in haste, into a family that is as alien as they come. Her father made her into a spoiled princess and she can't understand why she has to work to find a place of respect in her husband's family. She was the perfect mark for Dierdre's machinations to replace her as princess in the Tarr household.

I love the Jewish Irathient lawyer. The cliche was turned perfectly on its head. I find it hilarious when Votans are dressed in slightly dorky Earthling business suits, complete with ties. The lawyer was nice comic relief amid the overall nastiness on display in the rest of the episode. I mean, eye gouging for profit? Polio kids? Murder, greed, perversion, lies?

Viceroy Mercado has become even more interesting. Aside from his karaoke skills, he continues to surprise. That speech he gave Christie was quite revealing. Could he be working for the Votanis Collective? He certainly sounds like a Votan sympathizer. He really admires and envies the Castithans. How far will he go to become one?

I was happy not to get more Tommy/Berlin angst this week.

[CoderLady]

I love Robin Dunne for bringing the humor. I do miss Sanctuary.

 

They must really like him because this is his second guest role on Defiance. Remember the guy last season who had his bioman kidnap people, then he hooked them up to some diabolical medical machinery and gave them nightmares in order to harvest something from their nervous system to make drugs? Kenya was a victim but she got loose and killed him. I thought it was too small a role so I'm glad he's back - this one looks far more interesting.

[AlliMo]

Poor dumb Treasure Doll. Stahma supported Alak's marriage to Christie because she was  the daughter of the one of the most powerful humans in Defiance with a future stake in a lucrative business, and she seems to have developed a genuine affection for her. There's no way her newly empowered self is going to accept a slippery skank straight from the Need/Want trying to disrupt her happy home.

Edited August 1, 2014 by AlliMo

[MDKNIGHT]

Where is the right place to discuss the clips of coming attractions they showed at the end of the episode?

 

Yewell may be the greatest alien ever created.  Every line was gold.  "There are two kinds of friends.  The kind that help you hide dead whores and me."

 

I have never in my life seen a sex scene be as funny as when Datak stops pumping for a moment to question whether the handmaiden was saying his name over and over because she thinks he's a megalomaniac and her " no" is SOOOO fake. 

 

So Christie wants to BE Stahma,  Datak wants to have sex with Stahma even if he has a younger model under him and the Tar Criminal Empire wants to listen to only Stahma.....I'm getting the impression that an Indogene scientist would make a mint if he/she could figure out how to firkin CLONE Stahma.  I think it is hysterical.

 

I loved the ep but I am a  little creeped out by two things.  One is that they buy slave girls in childhood who on the one hand play with your kids but on the other are expected to perform sexual acts with the father of the house.  It has a really strong incest/pedephilia vibe.  I got the impression that the girl's servi e to Datak was something both he and Stahma found perfectly acceptable. 

 

Second I think it is sad when people worship a foreign culture especially if the culture they worship is so DEEPY flawed like the Casti's.  They treat women as chattel and seem to have not evolved CULTURALY in thousands of years. They may have more advanced tech than us but are not better than us.  An example to illustrate what I mean...if you have space ships but you have slavery you have tech we Americans don't have but have a social order the US gave up in the 1800's. The Civil Rights of the 60's would be another example of a culture evolving etc.  We have evolved a lot in 200 + years.  We are to believe the Casti's haven't in thousands because they live by their religious scrolls.  On top of that I got the feeling that the tech was largely invented by the Indogenes since they seem to be a society of scientists.  So really what is it that these wackadoos worship?  What about becoming Stahma so entices Christie?  The Only time Stahma actually enjoys being Stahma is when she ISN'T towing the Casti line.  If she were a "good" Casti wife she would have allowed Datak to beat her and never left the house.  What the HELL is there to admire about that?  Ironically a "good Casti wife" would have followed Alak out of the club and groveled for forgiveness.  I am hoping that the way things pan out in the end shows Christie that she should be proud of being human and has her grow as a person. 

[GaT]

 And Mercado. Oh, Mercado. I am so sorry I ever thought you were duller than Pottinger. Weren't we all saying just last week how we wished the show would turn into more of a Castithan transvestite musical? No? Just me then? Well, in any case, mission nearly accomplished. All he needs now is backup dancers.

WTH was that? I felt like I was suddenly watching The Rocky Horror Show, why was he singing?

 

I love the Jewish Irathient lawyer. The cliche was turned perfectly on its head. I find it hilarious when Votans are dressed in slightly dorky Earthling business suits, complete with ties. The lawyer was nice comic relief amid the overall nastiness on display in the rest of the episode. I mean, eye gouging for profit? Polio kids? Murder, greed, perversion, lies?

 

 

I didn't understand the point of him, is he the guy in the ship with Irisa, or is that someone else's memory? I wish they give us some explanation as to what is going on with Irisa.

 

Christie is an idiot. Deirdre set her up & she still can't see it yet. I really don't understand what she's doing, now that Alak knows about her, why is she continuing to dress up? What's the point?

[SimoneS]

I thought this was a bad episode with poor characterization and attempts at humor that I did not appreciate at all.

 

Rafe palling around with Datak struck an off note. Rafe has always been smarter than Datak. I would expect Rafe to be forming his connections to reclaim his mines not relying on Datak for weapons.

 

Amanda is a shrewd politician who has been devoted to Defiance. Having her give up the opportunity to help the city out of sudden loyalty to Pottinger was beyond unbelievable. I would have bought it if she had refused out of resentment that they elected Datak over her so she 

 

Finding out that Datak was having sex with a young woman who had been his slave since she was a child was disgusting and turned my stomach. 

 

The DJ seducing Alak story would work better if he was not already a serial cheater. Christie needs to get grip though because when her father finds out it will not be pretty.

 

The only good thing that happened was that Nolan finally knows the truth about Irisa. It means that he can now find a way to help her.

[Izeinwinter]

The DJ's plot.. makes no sense. I mean, if she was running a short con, what she is doing might work - it can easily take people far longer to put the pieces together than it does for you to be long gone. But she wants to *marry into the family*. And she has to know about Stahma. She used to be Datak's favorite whipping post. So what is her end goal here? To sit on a social timebomb with Moriarty for a mother-in-law? That's not a plan, that is a death wish. I think she is supposed to be the anti-kenya, someone who was made much harsher by a life of prostitution, the whore with a heart of flint, as it were. But her plot still needs to not be an obvious (Obvious to her, even!) ticket to a shallow grave <,<  Id really have been much happier if she had been aiming at seducing her way into a triad or position as junior wife / shared concubine, because that at least would be less doomed. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[Chaos Theory]

The DJ's plot.. makes no sense. I mean, if she was running a short con, what she is doing might work - it can easily take people far longer to put the pieces together than it does for you to be long gone. But she wants to *marry into the family*. And she has to know about Stahma. She used to be Datak's favorite whipping post. So what is her end goal here? .

Did you listen to her story? I am assuming it is true because i assume all the stories told about the days after the Pale Wars are because so far they have been. She was sold into prostituion and marriage by her own mother but still managed to work her way up to a livable life. That takes some kind if steel that Christie lacks and Stahma might appricate. Now this might all be about Christie and her road to Stahmahood which i think it is which means the girl will be dead by the end of the season...so no worries.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[johntfs]

I thought this was a bad episode with poor characterization and attempts at humor that I did not appreciate at all.

 

Rafe palling around with Datak struck an off note. Rafe has always been smarter than Datak. I would expect Rafe to be forming ihis connections to reclaim his mines not relying on Datak for weapons.

 

Amanda is a shrewd politician who has been devoted to Defiance. Having her give up the opportunity to help the city out of sudden loyalty to Pottinger was beyond unbelievable. I would have bought it if she had refused out of resentment that they elected Datak over her so she 

 

Finding out that Datak was having sex with a young woman who had been his slave since shewas a child was disgusting and turned my stomach. 

 

The DJ seducing Alak story would work better if he was not already a serial cheater. Christie needs to get grip though because when her father finds out it will not be pretty.

 

The only good thing that happened was that Nolan finally knows the truth about Irisa. It means that he can now find a way to help her.

 

I thought it was pretty good, actually.  I'd've loved it just for Yewll.

 

I liked Rafe and Datak together since they have family and enemies in common.  Figure most of Rafe's contacts are on the E-Rep side of things so for him, Datak's the only game in town.

 

I don't think it's that Amanda admires Pottinger so much as she's suspicious of Mercado.

 

Not to defend creepy Casti customs, but I think the servant's girl's relationship with the Tarrs is a little more complicated than slavery.  Plus, we don't really know how old she is chronologically.  It's possible that she and Datak were children together and he was just thawed out several years before she was.

 

When has Alak been shown to be a cheater aside from this episode?

 

Really glad that Nolan knows about Irisa now.  I will say that "Irzu" is likely to be in trouble fairly soon.  Godlike Ship AI or not, you really don't want Joshua Nolan as an enemy.

[Ottis]

This show feels more like Farscape every episode (a good thing). The humor, the buddyness, the singing-out-of-nowhere. I like it.

 

"I'm Indogene I am Squirrely by nature."

 

 

That was the only thing I didn't like. I suppose an alien may have been on a destroyed Earth long enough to have seen a squirrel (though I would guess they are rare to extinct by now), but to understand the slang meaning of "squirrelly?" Maybe. But it took me out of the moment. I fully expected her to respond with, "I'm not sure what you mean by that, but (something clever)."

 

Defiance has gone from a show almost off my list to a show I look forward to.

[Vandy10]

Happy to see a Sanctuary actor back here. Syfy does love to recycle their actors.

 

I thought Amanda turned Mercado down not out of loyalty to Pottinger, but because she doesn't want to put on the Erep uniform.

 

Oh Christie; so dumb, and yet with such lofty ambitions. She's going to have to get a lot smarter than that if she wants to be (like) Stahma.

[Chaos Theory]

WE know Pottinger is a snake. As far as Amanda is aware he has been a good friend to her Amanda is loyal to her friends so she wouldn't take the job because of Pottinger.

[BungalowSummer]

Now this might all be about Christie and her road to Stahmahood which i think it is which means the girl will be dead by the end of the season...so no worries.

Yes, I agree. It's funny because Christie doesn't really want to be a Castithan wife. She pretends to submit, like Stahma. Will Stahma or Mercado save Christie from prison?

Not to defend creepy Casti customs, but I think the servant's girl's relationship with the Tarrs is a little more complicated than slavery.

Strictly by definition, she's a slave, but it's bound up with Casti traditions of liro and defined positions in society. Datak said that Jalina was bought at the age of four and that she and Alak played together as children. Jalina was a servant but in Castithan society she was also a member of the Tarr family, even if she was a second-class member. The successful slave-master makes the slave happy to be enslaved. It's disgusting.

Castithan customs are creepy, no doubt about it. They are cruel misogynists, racists, violent and tyrannical. The sleek, stylistic flourishes are only a pleasing wrapping on something very ugly. Mercado's statement that the beautiful Castis are the next dominant species on Earth is pretty sad and says more about his predilections than any real Casti powers.

[AV8n]

That was the only thing I didn't like. I suppose an alien may have been on a destroyed Earth long enough to have seen a squirrel (though I would guess they are rare to extinct by now), but to understand the slang meaning of "squirrelly?" Maybe. But it took me out of the moment. I fully expected her to respond with, "I'm not sure what you mean by that, but (something clever)."

If Yewll can come up with "po-tay-to, po-tah-to", then a squirrel reference shouldn't be that difficult to grasp.  Heck, she may not know what a squirrel is, but rather may have heard someone described as squirrelly previously and figured out what it meant.  Seems like everybody learns everyone else's languages pretty well.  Which is odd, considering in the real world most Americans don't even learn Spanish.  So it's hard to imagine so many speaking enough Casti, Irathient, etc. to even know when they're being cussed out.

 

It's interesting how they take a character like Datak, who is quite unlikeable on his own, and pair him with Yewll or Rafe for some of the most entertaining dialog on the show.  Not to mention his banter with the concubine/handmaiden (may she rest in peace - as much as possible as a hellbug's lunch).

[maczero]

Amanda is a shrewd politician who has been devoted to Defiance. Having her give up the opportunity to help the city out of sudden loyalty to Pottinger was beyond unbelievable. I would have bought it if she had refused out of resentment that they elected Datak over her so she

I'll go with the "devil you know" argument as to why Amanda is defending Pottinger.  However, she did seem to be genuinely loyal to him which shouldn't be all that surprising given what we've seen of the two of them over the past few eps.  But it does bother me that she seems to have totally forgiven the guy for setting up two kids to become hell bug chow.

I loved the ep but I am a  little creeped out by two things.  One is that they buy slave girls in childhood who on the one hand play with your kids but on the other are expected to perform sexual acts with the father of the house.  It has a really strong incest/pedephilia vibe.  I got the impression that the girl's servi e to Datak was something both he and Stahma found perfectly acceptable.

So agree with this.  In fact, I found her life pretty sad.  Sold into slavery as a child and then molded into a sex slave as she became older. Though this is supposed to be an alien culture so I guess we're supposed to find the hand maiden's position disturbing.

 

That was the only thing I didn't like. I suppose an alien may have been on a destroyed Earth long enough to have seen a squirrel (though I would guess they are rare to extinct by now), but to understand the slang meaning of "squirrelly?" Maybe. But it took me out of the moment. I fully expected her to respond with, "I'm not sure what you mean by that, but (something clever)."

Nothing new there.  This is the same Doc Yewell that said she was on a "booty call" 2 eps ago. 

 

Count me among the confused about the Viceroy's admiration of Castithans.  Castithans don't appear to be physically or intellectually superior to humans.

[Chaos Theory]

That's the thing i love about science fiction shows with Alien culture. No matter how crazy the cultural thing is there is probably some human society that practiced some form of it as well. We all know quite a few human societies throughout history had slaves and quite a few of them had sex with them. Even in America i have heard stories about children having black nannies or childhood playmates only to own them themselves as adults.

What i found interesting about the scenes in the show though was a geniun fondness/love for the woman. She is not someone easily replaced.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[Ottis]

- Nothing new there.  This is the same Doc Yewell that said she was on a "booty call" 2 eps ago.

- If Yewll can come up with "po-tay-to, po-tah-to", then a squirrel reference shouldn't be that difficult to grasp.

 

 

I suppose, though I see the three examples as different. A booty call is an action that is easy to grasp when it if referred to ("Hey doc, some on over here for a roll in the hay, it's a booty call"). Potato-patahto is an expression you hear in a context and then can repeat it without knowing any more than that context ("Is it X or Y? Potato, patahto, same thing"). Simply saying something is "squirrelly?" You would have to know which behavior someone is referring to, and then be able connect it to the word in a meaningful way. I guess you could do that without knowing what a squirrel was, but it would make the remark even more abstract. "Hey, stop being so squirrelly." "Uh, OK?"). Maybe it's just me.

 

I find the societies the show is building up in the alien cultures fascinating, and especially am intrigued by the more offensive mores because they are so different and this is, after all, a TV show. Also, I swear I saw Irisa's eyes at one point and they were brown and not yellow.

[BungalowSummer]

Didn't Doc Yewll's lover Lev mention that Yewll had become fluent in Earth English idioms to put the subjects of her experiments at ease?

Damn, the more we learn about the Votans, the more they are shown to be complete Votan supremacists. They really don't like us, do they?

[CoderLady]

I was left wondering if Doc Yewll will be able to reconstruct Rynn's eye. I really hope so. Irathients seem to catch the worst damage of any of the Votans (losing Sukar, getting treated as plague carriers, getting locked up in the mines and shot, more getting shot by Black Jonah to flush out Irisa, etc.) so it would be nice if just once a featured Irathient besides Irisa gets through an episode in one piece.

[Scarlett45]

That's the thing i love about science fiction shows with Alien culture. No matter how crazy the cultural thing is there is probably some human society that practiced some form of it as well. We all know quite a few human societies throughout history had slaves and quite a few of them had sex with them. Even in America i have heard stories about children having black nannies or childhood playmates only to own them themselves as adults.

What i found interesting about the scenes in the show though was a geniun fondness/love for the woman. She is not someone easily replaced.

I'm not suprised by this. You don't have to consider someone your social equal to have genuine fondness and affection for them. Especially someone that has lived in your home and assisted in the running of your household, knows your family intimately etc. That doesn't make her any less of a slave, but I am not surprised they were upset that she was murdered and will miss her.

[Sakura12]

Is the Jewish Irathient lawyer, Irisa's new love interest? If so I approve. She needs someone to lighten up her scenes. Also is that the future or the past they are seeing? Or are they in some other people's memories? Whatever it is it's finally making me interested in her storyline.

 

I agree it's nice that they showed that the Tarr's actually cared about the slave girl, even though it's gross that Datek was sleeping with someone he purchased as a child and grew up with his son. 

[shapeshifter]

I love this show more then is healthy for a science fiction show on the SYFY Channel.

Yes, of all the scifi shows on right now that I'm watching, only this one consistently delivers a comprehensive narative. And yes, SyFy doesn't care.

Datak and Rafe the new super couple....

"I'm Indogene I am Squirrely by nature." Even with only a few scenes Doc Yewell delivers as usual....

I would be happy if the show had just these three characters...and Stahma too. I did like Irisa's new flame as well: The first Irathient Jew you've ever met. Heh.

Is Christie seriously interested in being involved with someone old enough to be her grandfather? If so, is it just for power?

[RealityGal]

 

Ah, so that's the DJ's big play.  She wants to be Alak's "princess."  Not surprised Alak didn't take Christie's extra curricular well at all, and he's already stepping out on the marriage.  But, just what is going on with Christie?  The fact she picked Stahma has her "name" at the club, makes me wonder if that was the only name she could think of, or if she admires Stahma in some way.  Either way, all the stuff with her and Mercado is crazy, but kind of awesome.  He really gets into it, huh?

 

 

I think she wants to be Stahma.  She complains of being looked at as an ugly human at home, but there is Stahma, beautiful, Casti, treasured in her own community, powerful in her own quiet way.  While Christie cooks food she thinks is gross, Stahma is out making power moves.

 

If by "princess" you mean "wife" I think you hit the nail on the head.  And DJ seems very scrappy, and determined to do whatever it takes to get whatever she wants.

 

Poor dumb Treasure Doll. Stahma supported Alak's marriage to Christie because she was  the daughter of the one of the most powerful humans in Defiance with a future stake in a lucrative business, and she seems to have developed a genuine affection for her. There's no way her newly empowered self is going to accept a slippery skank straight from the Need/Want trying to disrupt her happy home.

 

Empowered how?  By the baby she is carrying?  She has no other real allies but her father.  Once she gives birth I think she is totally expendable unless she figures out another plan.  Alak had been faithful because he had been trying to not be like his father, whom he despised.  I think after killing someone, and what he has gone through with his family, he seems to be more and more accepting of the fact that he may be, in some ways, like his father.  And some of those Casti traditions he thought were stupid, are the ones he now wants to hold on to.....like sleeping with women who you are not married to.

 

Now the Viceroy may be her protection and her "plan B" when things start getting rough at home, or when the custody battle starts.  But I sort of hope not, I would think true empowerment would come from her seeing her problem and formulating a plan, not just being lucky enough to sit next to the Viceroy in a club while he is engaged in a little Casti RuPaul Drag Race audition.

 

 

Christie is an idiot. Deirdre set her up & she still can't see it yet. I really don't understand what she's doing, now that Alak knows about her, why is she continuing to dress up? What's the point?

 

Christie is an idiot.  Not only does this girl say that she wants a man to treat her like a princess, the way Alak treats Christie, she then says she is going to marry a rich man!  And then you are mysteriously caught at a club doing something that would upset Alak, unless Alak was told you would be there, how did he run straight into you?

 

Did you listen to her story? I am assuming it is true because i assume all the stories told about the days after the Pale Wars are because so far they have been. She was sold into prostituion and marriage by her own mother but still managed to work her way up to a livable life. That takes some kind if steel that Christie lacks and Stahma might appricate. Now this might all be about Christie and her road to Stahmahood which i think it is which means the girl will be dead by the end of the season...so no worries.

I don't think Christie has what it takes to be Stahma.  I think Deidre does.  Christie doesn't really know how to be sneaky, she left the Casti jewel lying around, she left face makeup on.  Either her conscience is making her do stupid things in the hope that she gets caught, or she is just stupid.  I don't think Stahma would have embarrassed Datak in public like that by refusing to go home, I think Stahma would have found a way to smooth things over on the way home, but I don't think Stahma would have made a scene, unless it was absolutely planned.

Edited August 2, 2014 by RealityGal

[shapeshifter]

Poor dumb Treasure Doll. Stahma supported Alak's marriage to Christie because she was the daughter of the one of the most powerful humans in Defiance with a future stake in a lucrative business, and she seems to have developed a genuine affection for her. There's no way her newly empowered self is going to accept a slippery skank straight from the Need/Want trying to disrupt her happy home.

Empowered how? By the baby she is carrying?

I think "her newly empowered self" in @AlliMo's post refers to Stahma, not Christie. Right? (Those pesky pronouns!)

Nevertheless, I think you may be on to something, @RealityGal, with:

Now the Viceroy may be her protection and her "plan B" when things start getting rough at home, or when the custody battle starts. But I sort of hope not, I would think true empowerment would come from her seeing her problem and formulating a plan, not just being lucky enough to sit next to the Viceroy in a club while he is engaged in a little Casti RuPaul Drag Race audition...

Christie may have either accidentally or on purpose have stumbled upon a means to getting her father's mine rights reinstated. Edited August 2, 2014 by shapeshifter

[GaT]

Christie may have either accidentally or on purpose have stumbled upon a means to getting her father's mine rights reinstated.

I can't believe it was on purpose, but you're right, she may have accidentally made herself valuable. Which might keep her alive.

[johntfs]

Two things to consider about Christie.  First, Christie hasn't really had a lot of female role models in her life.  I can easily understand why she'd model herself on Stahma, who has always treated her in a kindly, motherly fashion while ultimately showing great strength of will.  Secondly, the reason she went to the club was to immerse herself in "Casti" culture.  Alak kept telling Christie that "you're not Casti, you don't understand."  So, because she loves him, she's trying to understand.

 

Now that she's been in the club for a little bit and fallen into Mercado's orbit, she's found herself with beings that accept her for who she is instead of finding fault for her attempts to understand.

 

I don't think that Deirdre has really thought through the potential consequences of her plan and that she doesn't have any powerful backing.  Dierdre's plan is pretty much, "exploit Christie's need and naivete to drive a wedge between her and Alak.  Seduce Alak and replace Christie as the new Mrs. Alak Tarr.  Be rich and happy with her hot, slightly secondhand husband."  Diedre's problems are that Stahma really likes Christie and probably sees her very much like a daughter.  Datak knows that Christie is pregnant and sees her as the vessel for the continuance of his legacy, plus he's a snob and has an alliance with Rafe.  He's not going to allow an ambitious night porter gold-digger to screw that up.  Finally, against all expectations, Christie/Stahma has managed to hook a whale in Viceroy Mercado.  Datak and Stahma are not about to kick Christie to the curb until she can land him once they find out about that.

 

Meanwhile, sure, the handmaiden was basically a slave.  However, she was also clearly considered to be part of the Tarr family as witness the grief and rage shown by Datak and Stahma.  I also loved Rafe in that.  "He was running with scissors."

[CletusMusashi]

Nice!

I did not catch that "running with scissors" was a social metaphor, rather than just a "poked out his eyes" excuse.

But I think it was. For one thing, it makes a lot more sense that way. 

[RealityGal]

Two things to consider about Christie.  First, Christie hasn't really had a lot of female role models in her life.  I can easily understand why she'd model herself on Stahma, who has always treated her in a kindly, motherly fashion while ultimately showing great strength of will.  Secondly, the reason she went to the club was to immerse herself in "Casti" culture.  Alak kept telling Christie that "you're not Casti, you don't understand."  So, because she loves him, she's trying to understand.

 

Now that she's been in the club for a little bit and fallen into Mercado's orbit, she's found herself with beings that accept her for who she is instead of finding fault for her attempts to understand.

 

I don't think that Deirdre has really thought through the potential consequences of her plan and that she doesn't have any powerful backing.  Dierdre's plan is pretty much, "exploit Christie's need and naivete to drive a wedge between her and Alak.  Seduce Alak and replace Christie as the new Mrs. Alak Tarr.  Be rich and happy with her hot, slightly secondhand husband."  Diedre's problems are that Stahma really likes Christie and probably sees her very much like a daughter.  Datak knows that Christie is pregnant and sees her as the vessel for the continuance of his legacy, plus he's a snob and has an alliance with Rafe.  He's not going to allow an ambitious night porter gold-digger to screw that up.  Finally, against all expectations, Christie/Stahma has managed to hook a whale in Viceroy Mercado.  Datak and Stahma are not about to kick Christie to the curb until she can land him once they find out about that.

 

Meanwhile, sure, the handmaiden was basically a slave.  However, she was also clearly considered to be part of the Tarr family as witness the grief and rage shown by Datak and Stahma.  I also loved Rafe in that.  "He was running with scissors."

 

See, I don't think Stahma really likes Christie all that much.  I think Stahma sees her as a necessary evil.  I think Stahma wants to do what is best for her son, and she wants control of that grandchild.  Control of the grandchild means controlling Christie.  At least for now.  I don't know that Deidre needs a powerful backing, to me, Alak is already getting tired of Christie, so she doesn't have to do much to exploit that situation and make it blow up.  And be there to pick up the pieces. Deidre IMO, is much more a Stahma type than Christie, but its possible that Stahma may see someone just like her as a threat, and might see Christie as someone more easy to control.  Except Christie is now showing herself to be someone that can't be controlled, and worse yet, she is doing things publicly, like disrespecting Alak in front of people, and loudly accusing him of being a criminal, which has to go against all sorts of Casti ways.  I would imagine Stahma could see the potential pitfalls of having her son disrespected in public by his wife an inferior human no less in front of a crowd of Casti's.  And this is just the start of Christie just doing what she wants.  This is why I think her value will decrease after she gives birth to her child.  There is a danger in someone like Christie, who doesn't think things through, but goes purely off of emotion. There is a chance she will want to just take her child and run off, especially as it becomes more clear that Alak becomes more like his father, and less interested in her.  Christie didn't sign up to marry Datak Tarr, Jr, but slowly IMO thats who Alak is turning into.  This may just make Christie want to run for the hills with her child, which I don't think either Stahma or Datak would allow.  The child she is going to give birth to gives Christie some power, a lot of power, but it also makes her a liability, because she will have their only grandchild and the power to run off with him (I think it will be a grandson).

 

I think Datak actually might appreciate a woman who came from nothing and through sheer force of will placed herself in a better position.  It actually sounds a little like Datak's story.  I think both he and Stahma can appreciate someone driven and motivated by trying to change their lives.  Someone who started from the bottom and worked her way up, it sounds like Datak started out as a lowly street fighter.  And better yet, someone who comes into their family with her eyes wide open.  There doesn't need to be the subterfuge and tip-toeing around they have had to do with Christie.  Now Viceroy Mercado may indeed be Christie's saving grace, that would make sense, but at the same time, both Rafe and Datak are going to be doing something that goes completely against the Earth Republic, so its hard to say how it will all fit.  

 

Christie's reasoning as to why she went to the club in the first place isn't all that important, IMO, its what Alak and Stahma and Datak will think of it.  Casti's seem to be very much tied to traditions and respect and all of that, and if what Christie did is seen as being disrespectful, even to the Casti community at large I think her motivations don't really matter, but the perception of what she did does matter.  And I'm also not entirely sure, that hanging out in a Casti nightclub has given Christie powerful insight into what its like to be a Casti woman, especially one of her elevated status.  Its almost a little insulting to their culture to think you could understand it by putting on white makeup, a wig, and hanging out in a nightclub.

Edited August 2, 2014 by RealityGal

[sjohnson]

Christie no more understands Stahma than daddy Rafe does. Rafe's a fool and he's way behind the curve on getting that Stahma is the dangerous one.

The idiocy is that if she wants to be Stahma, then she wants Alak to be her Datak. All that seems to be going on is that she doesn't like living in a Castithan family. And I don't think she much respects Alak's problems breaking away, thinks he spineless or maybe effeminate. Since Rafe threatened Alak to keep Christie out of everything, there's really not much he can do but cut her off with excuses like "You don't understand." 

 

Christie accepting Mercado's gift was something like a wife accepting another man's diamond ring. Then she publicly made her real feelings perfectly clear. Not only did she announce publicly she intended to keep cruising for another man, she actively harmed him by publicly talking about Skeevor's murder. (Only the audience knows it, amazingly, turned into something less cold-blooded.) A Mafia wife who publicly accused her husband of being a Mafioso and naming one of his murder victims is not trying to salvage a marriage. Consciously or not, she's angling for divorce, blithely hopeful hubby doesn't think of another solution. 

 

I don't think Alak's revenge infidelity after that is anything at all like Datak's infidelities. I suppose he has to convince himself he's a man somehow. I'm not sure the show navigates the contradiction between the formal premise that Castithans are supposed to be aliens, and how they're fictional metaphors for backward cultures. Skip over the question whether whiteface ironically means "not white." If Castithans really are aliens, how are we supposed to know whether it's crazy to expect human notions of marital fidelity? If so, then Christie is wrong. But if Castithans are just reactionaries? On the one hand Christie is right to want out of the backwards mess except that in this case Alakism is a good thing, not weakness as such. Only Alak, Stahma and we know that Rafe has messed with her marriage. What I'm seeing so far is something that seems to want to have it both ways. Christie is really committed to Alak, not deceiving herself about straying., and really is trying to understand a genuine alien culture but Alak is just being a jerk. Well maybe events will clarify.

Edited August 2, 2014 by sjohnson

[shapeshifter]

Reading these last 2 posts makes me wonder: If Deirdre were also to get pregnant, would Stahma have no qualms about seeing pregnant Christie murdered? If that happens, it will be interesting to see Rafe, Datak, and Mercado aliances shake out.

[Mabinogia]

I think the flaw in Deirdre's plan is that Casti men are allowed/expected to have mistresses. So how is screwing Alak going to make her the next Mrs. Alak? He's got a more "respectable" wife in Christie, someone the town seems more fond of than some little whore DJ. It would be way easier to keep Christy in line by using the baby as leverage. "Christie, if you don't act like the perfect little Casti wife, I will make sure you never see your child again!" If Stamha said something like that to me, I'd believe her. If Stamha said that to Deirdre, she'd probably just shrug and go screw Alak into submission. Stamha, IMO would much rather deal with easily manipulated Christie than the dangerous and ambitious Deirdre, at least at this moment.

 

The Casti dress up bar stuff is fascinating me. I kind of wish Alak had shattered everybody's expectations by finding Casti Christie kind of sexy or getting what she was doing. Instead the story took the most predictable route possible. Whatever. I still like Christie's side of the story if finding him increasingly boring.

[RealityGal]

Christie no more understands Stahma than daddy Rafe does. Rafe's a fool and he's way behind the curve on getting that Stahma is the dangerous one.

The idiocy is that if she wants to be Stahma, then she wants Alak to be her Datak. All that seems to be going on is that she doesn't like living in a Castithan family. And I don't think she much respects Alak's problems breaking away, thinks he spineless or maybe effeminate. Since Rafe threatened Alak to keep Christie out of everything, there's really not much he can do but cut her off with excuses like "You don't understand." 

 

Christie accepting Mercado's gift was something like a wife accepting another man's diamond ring. Then she publicly made her real feelings perfectly clear. Not only did she announce publicly she intended to keep cruising for another man, she actively harmed him by publicly talking about Skeevor's murder. (Only the audience knows it, amazingly, turned into something less cold-blooded.) A Mafia wife who publicly accused her husband of being a Mafioso and naming one of his murder victims is not trying to salvage a marriage. Consciously or not, she's angling for divorce, blithely hopeful hubby doesn't think of another solution. 

 

I don't think Alak's revenge infidelity after that is anything at all like Datak's infidelities. I suppose he has to convince himself he's a man somehow. I'm not sure the show navigates the contradiction between the formal premise that Castithans are supposed to be aliens, and how they're fictional metaphors for backward cultures. Skip over the question whether whiteface ironically means "not white." If Castithans really are aliens, how are we supposed to know whether it's crazy to expect human notions of marital fidelity? If so, then Christie is wrong. But if Castithans are just reactionaries? On the one hand Christie is right to want out of the backwards mess except that in this case Alakism is a good thing, not weakness as such. Only Alak, Stahma and we know that Rafe has messed with her marriage. What I'm seeing so far is something that seems to want to have it both ways. Christie is really committed to Alak, not deceiving herself about straying., and really is trying to understand a genuine alien culture but Alak is just being a jerk. Well maybe events will clarify.

 

See, I don't necessarily think that Christie has thought through the fact that being Stahma requires having a Datak.  I only think that she has seen that Stahma is the pinnacle of a powerful woman in this new culture she wants to be a part of.  I don't think Alak was ever going to tell Christie about what he did or who he is or whatever, because that wasn't how their relationship was formed.  They were just two bright eyed kids, who didn't think that their family drama would get in the way.  Christie just happened to fall in love with the town DJ, who couldn't stand his father, and was resolved to be nothing like him.  They are young, and sometimes young love isn't built for the complexities of life, like having to be the front for your fathers criminal empire, killing someone.  I believe to some degree, maybe even subconsciously he is starting to see that a Casti woman would understand his family drama, even without being told, because she would have an understanding of the culture.  There are complexities to his culture that he probably can't explain to Christie, because they aren't logical, they are just cultural.  If an alien came down in a spaceship, and I tried to explain the concept of why only women wear dresses, and why both sexes have breasts but only women have to cover theirs up, the alien would probably be totally confused.  But another human being would understand because they have grown up with that.

 

I think Alak is slowly turning more into Datak, and being okay with cheating as a way of dealing with his marital stress is IMO the first step down the path of just being okay with cheating.  His DJ'ing went from something he did and seemed to truly enjoy, to this business where you gotta play certain records at the top of the hour and mention that they can only be purchased from Tarr records, and I don't even think he is on the radio much anymore.  These things both IMO seem like Datak things, and both seem perfectly acceptable in his culture.  IMO, a lot of traditional sins get dropped in the Castian community if its a guy thats doing the deed.  The Casti clergyman didn't really take offense to the fight tents, or gambling, he took offense to Stahma running them, so if a guy was running them it doesn't seem like it would have been a problem.

 

 

Reading these last 2 posts makes me wonder: If Deirdre were also to get pregnant, would Stahma have no qualms about seeing pregnant Christie murdered? If that happens, it will be interesting to see Rafe, Datak, and Mercado aliances shake out.

 

thats so funny, I was thinking about the same thing.  Not if Stahma would have Christie killed per se, but what would happen if Deidre got pregnant?  I'm not sure if she is angling for that so soon, but it might be....

[RealityGal]

I think the flaw in Deirdre's plan is that Casti men are allowed/expected to have mistresses. So how is screwing Alak going to make her the next Mrs. Alak? He's got a more "respectable" wife in Christy, someone the town seems more fond of than some little whore DJ. It would be way easier to keep Christy in line by using the baby as leverage. "Christy, if you don't act like the perfect little Casti wife, I will make sure you never see your child again!" If Stamha said something like that to me, I'd believe her. If Stamha said that to Deirdre, she'd probably just shrug and go screw Alak into submission. Stamha, IMO would much rather deal with easily manipulated Christy than the dangerous and ambitious Deirdre, at least at this moment.

 

The Casti dress up bar stuff is fascinating me. I kind of wish Alak had shattered everybodies expectations by finding Casti Christy kind of sexy or getting what she was doing. Instead the story took the most predictable route possible. Whatever. I still like Christy's side of the story if finding him increasingly boring.

 

I don't know how the town feels about Christie.  Her father in law was the one who brought in the much hated Earth Republic, so she may not be the most beloved person in the town.  And I'm not sure how much the town really looks down on prostitution where the former mayor is running the town whore house.  I think it will be the other way around, with Christie threatening to take her baby and make a run for it whenever she is unhappy or feeling hurt.  Christie seems to operate more on impulse, reaction, and emotion not on  reasoned, calculated thought.  The baby gives Christy leverage as far as I can tell.  And I don't think Stahma is really the sort to make threat after threat.  In fact, I don't know how many times I've actually heard Stahma make a threat.  She seems more a woman of action.  Well, she sort of threatened Datak when she found out about her maids murder.

 

I think Stahma would enjoy dealing with an easily manipulated Christy, but Christy is starting to show she won't be easily manipulated.  And she is willing to be loud about things.  You think no one saw that little scene in the Casti nightclub with Alak being disrespected, publicly, by his wife.  I think thats a big no no in the Casti community, the perception and image is everything.  And the more Christy shows that side of her, the less it seems like she can be easily controlled.

 

And ultimately if the town likes Deidre less than Christy, it may make her more easy to control.  After all, even the implied threat that she might be out of the Tarr's good graces may be enough to put Deidre in line, because she has no support system to fall back on.

Edited August 2, 2014 by RealityGal

[BungalowSummer]

 

she actively harmed him by publicly talking about Skeevor's murder. (Only the audience knows it, amazingly, turned into something less cold-blooded.) A Mafia wife who publicly accused her husband of being a Mafioso and naming one of his murder victims is not trying to salvage a marriage. Consciously or not, she's angling for divorce, blithely hopeful hubby doesn't think of another solution.

 

Bingo! And if she's not unconsciously angling for divorce, she's angling for his arrest.

 

The Christie/Alak relationship, which was a boring Romeo-Juliet set piece last season, has grown into a fascinatingly complex clusterfck.

 

 

I'm not sure the show navigates the contradiction between the formal premise that Castithans are supposed to be aliens, and how they're fictional metaphors for backward cultures. Skip over the question whether whiteface ironically means "not white." If Castithans really are aliens, how are we supposed to know whether it's crazy to expect human notions of marital fidelity?

 

I think the Castithans are fictional metaphors for fundamentalist, paternalistic cultures. And they are also aliens. In both cases, given what we've seen about Castithans, it's crazy to expect human (in the terms of the writers, typically liberal Western) notions of marital fidelity.

 

The show is also about the plight of the immigrant, assimilation and the difficulties for the first generation that straddles the old country and the new.

 

 

Only Alak, Stahma and we know that Rafe has messed with her marriage. What I'm seeing so far is something that seems to want to have it both ways. Christie is really committed to Alak, not deceiving herself about straying., and really is trying to understand a genuine alien culture but Alak is just being a jerk. Well maybe events will clarify.

 

My feeling about Christie is that she was committed to Alak, but that is now changing. Communication between the two is now non-existent and Rafe's meddling did more to drive Alak away from Christie than anything else since he can't tell her how messed up things are. All he hears from her these days is accusations and strife. As much as he didn't want to marry his mother, I'm sure he would like a little Castithan deference and wifely coddling.

 

She may have believed she went to the Janus Club looking to become a better Castithan wife, but I don't believe it. Even if so, she found something else better -- temporary escape from her miserable situation. Ironically, she acts the properly demur and submissive Castithan girl for Mercado, but what really gets her going is his talk about her empowerment and strength. The idea that strength and pleasure comes from submissiveness is pretty hardcore masochism. Yuck.

 

I also find it odd that there has been no mention of her pregnancy for awhile. Christie herself seems to be completely oblivious to the fact that she's carrying a hybrid that should probably be monitored closely for problems. Yet she's out drinking and dancing at the Janus Club.

 

And why hasn't Stahma gotten wind of all this yet? I would think nothing about what her family is up to avoids her scrutiny.

[Mabinogia]

I just assume Christie is more liked because she's Rafe's daughter, she grew up in town, she's "one of them" whereas Deidre is an outside, no family, so only those who have used her services probably even know who she is. I could be wrong. It's happened before. lol

 

What is Deidre? I've been assuming she's human, which is why I don't see why Stamha would choose her over Christie if they both were pregnant. But if she's got Casti blood or something, then it would make sense she would be okay with Alak changing wives. Otherwise, do we know what Casti ideas on divorce are? Or would they just kill Christie for no apparent reason other than...well, what, because Alak is bored with her? Like, what would they gain from getting rid of Christie and taking in Deidre?

[shapeshifter]

...A Mafia wife who publicly accused her husband of being a Mafioso and naming one of his murder victims is not trying to salvage a marriage. Consciously or not, she's angling for divorce, blithely hopeful hubby doesn't think of another solution....

And if she's not unconsciously angling for divorce, she's angling for his arrest....

At this point I don't think Christie is giving a lot of thought to consequences of her actions. She's still thinking like a teenager. But yes, divorce or arrest could be the result of what she has done. Or her own demise...

...I don't see why Stamha would choose her [Deirdre] over Christy if they both were pregnant.

Some posts upthread pointed out that Deirdre, who has had to learn how to survive in treacherous situations, is more worldly wise than Christie, and so less likely to do anything to antagonize the Tarrs if it means she gets to have a rich husband. This made me think that Stahma might prefer Deirdre, except for the heir Christie is carrying. But if Deirdre were also pregnant, Stahma might see Christie as an annoying insect that needed to meet an unfortunate end, perhaps against the windshield of a speeding vehicle, as insects often do.

At the beginning of the episode, during the recaps, they showed Alak threatening Deirdre about consequences should she do anything to disrupt his marriage, didn't he? So I'm also still considering an alternate resolution to this plot in which it is discovered that Deirdre directed Christie to the cross-dressing club, and it is Deirdre rather than Christie who meets an unhappy ending. We came close to seeing Christie reveal Deirdre's role in the dress up games when Christie tried to tell Alak she was doing it to be a better wife, but she didn't mention that it was Deirdre's advice.

[RealityGal]

 

I also find it odd that there has been no mention of her pregnancy for awhile. Christie herself seems to be completely oblivious to the fact that she's carrying a hybrid that should probably be monitored closely for problems. Yet she's out drinking and dancing at the Janus Club.

 

And why hasn't Stahma gotten wind of all this yet? I would think nothing about what her family is up to avoids her scrutiny.

 

It doesn't seem like much escapes Stahma's notice, so she may be biting her tongue and biding her time until Christie gives birth.  Yeah, Christie is drinking, which is no bueno, at least for a human child, so thats a little surprising, and that would be something I imagine Stahma may want to try to put a stop to.

 

I just assume Christy is more liked because she's Rafe's daughter, she grew up in town, she's "one of them" whereas Deidre is an outside, no family, so only those who have used her services probably even know who she is. I could be wrong. It's happened before. lol

 

What is Deidre? I've been assuming she's human, which is why I don't see why Stamha would choose her over Christy if they both were pregnant. But if she's got Casti blood or something, then it would make sense she would be okay with Alak changing wives. Otherwise, do we know what Casti ideas on divorce are? Or would they just kill Christy for no apparent reason other than...well, what, because Alak is bored with her? Like, what would they gain from getting rid of Christy and taking in Deidre?

I guess she may be more popular amongst the miners and the people she worked with in the cafe.  But the miners may resent Rafe for not doing anything against the mine takeover by the Earth Republic, and the people in the cafe haven't seen her in a while.  Christie operates on emotion, as far as I can see, a lot of her actions aren't well thought through.  She is not opposed to yelling, and making a public scene and what not.  If she operates on emotion, and she is in an unhappy marriage/situation its more likely she takes her child and runs when she gets too upset.  If she has support in the town, that makes it easier for her to run.  I don't think Stahma or Datak have any intention of having Christie do that, but the fact that she acts on emotion makes her a liability, and it becomes a real threat that she would take their grandchild and run.  I think Deidre, given her sad past is more likely to be more loyal to the family, because I think she will be so grateful to have any family.

[HeySandyStrange]

 

Some posts upthread pointed out that Deirdre, who has had to learn how to survive in treacherous situations, is more worldly wise than Christie, and so less likely to do anything to antagonize the Tarrs if it means she gets to have a rich husband. This made me think that Stahma might prefer Deirdre, except for the heir Christie is carrying. But if Deirdre were also pregnant, Stahma might see Christie as an annoying insect that needed to meet an unfortunate end, perhaps against the windshield of a speeding vehicle, as insects often do.

 

Honestly, I can't see that Stahma and Datak would be thrilled to have Alak dump Christie for Deidre. Deidre is a sex worker with a spotty past, unknown parentage, and most importantly, she is still a human. I think whether she was to get pregnant or not, Deidre would be safely put in her place as a (paid off) baby mama, and if Christie was taken out of the picture Alak would be set up with a proper Casti wife. 

 

Thinking about it I wonder what the elder Tarrs really think of Christie being in their family now that she has no value to them,other then her after thought of a pregnancy.  I might have missed it but I haven't remembered them expressing any thoughts on that this season. I'm guessing if and when they find out about her Casti roleplay one of them (Stahma most likely) will give her a wake up call. And if Stahma and Alak turn against Christie, I wonder if Datak's loyalties will be skewed at all now that he has a budding bromance with Rafe happening. Regardless, I am liking what they are doing the Tarr/McCawley cluster fuck that is brewing.

[AlliMo]

Stahma may be upsetting the Casti cultural mores as far as the role of women, but they are still a culture with a very strict caste system. They weren't thrilled with Alak marrying a human, but Christie is a human from what is, in Defiance, the highest social strata. Alak marrying Deirdre is akin to him marrying a handmaiden - it simply isn't done.

 

I do think that Stahma does have some genuine affection for Christie. I also think that Christie is a lot easier for Stahma to influence than someone as worldly and devious as Deirdre would be. Stahma won't hesitate to get rid of her without a second thought if she becomes any kind of threat.

[RealityGal]

Stahma may be upsetting the Casti cultural mores as far as the role of women, but they are still a culture with a very strict caste system. They weren't thrilled with Alak marrying a human, but Christie is a human from what is, in Defiance, the highest social strata. Alak marrying Deirdre is akin to him marrying a handmaiden - it simply isn't done.

 

I do think that Stahma does have some genuine affection for Christie. I also think that Christie is a lot easier for Stahma to influence than someone as worldly and devious as Deirdre would be. Stahma won't hesitate to get rid of her without a second thought if she becomes any kind of threat.

 

I got the impression Datak wasn't from the highest social strata, he came to Earth and worked his way up.  So I don't know if he might have a nugget of empathy in his heart for someone like Deidre.  Someone, who like he and Stahma will connive and plan and put in work to get what they want.  I'm not entirely sure if Deidre is still hooking, but she seems to be transitioning to radio host full time.  Alak tried to pay her, so maybe?  I don't see much evidence of Stahma having any genuine affection for Christie.  And Christie is showing that she can not be much influenced, she is yelling at people, causing public scenes, making public accusations about Alak and his family, going to Casti clubs and dressing up in public, running off.  She has shown herself, IMO to be run totally by impulse and emotion, and that leads to her not doing things that are rational.  I think deidre is a different animal entirely.  She is trying to accomplish her goals in a reasoned and controlled way.  Deidre though could be cast in the "ride or die" chick mode and become to Alak what Kenya was to Datak.  And if she became pregnant it would be an interesting dynamic.  But I do think Deidre is easier to control, because her motivations aren't as emotion based, she just wants to be a princess.  And I don't think that its Alak she loves per se, I think if she saw an opportunity for someone else to treat her like a princess she would go for that too....

[HeySandyStrange]

 

I don't see much evidence of Stahma having any genuine affection for Christie.

Stahma strikes me as either a full out psychopath or pretty near it, so I'd say it would be heard to guess how genuine her affection for anyone is. As a non-professional I have read that psychopaths tend to feel something similar to affection for those who the "like" on some level and most importantly, who they feel ownership and control over.  So it definitely seems that Christie is screwing with her dynamic with Stahma by stepping out on the family and talking out of turn.

[AlliMo]

Datak's having clawed his way up from the lower castes is unlikely to predispose him more kindly towards Deirdre. The people who had to fight their way to the top are the people most invested in preserving the status quo of their newfound privilege.

[MDKNIGHT]

People keep referring to where Christie went as "a Casti club."  It isn't. Christie did NOT make a scene in front of Castithans as some have said upthread.  She was in an underground CosPlay club.  She was talking in front of humans.  And not just any humans.  IF I am correct about how these clubs are viewed in Defiance, it is like two gay guys in the 1950's having an argument in a secret gay club....NOBODY is going to find out about the fight because nobody who witnessed it would admit to having been there. 

 

If the writers are consistant with the Castithans being dogmatic patriarchal traditionalists then no way is Diedre marriage material and a kid of hers with Alak would be treated as a bastard in unenlightened times.  Datak and Stamah put up with Alak marrying a lowly human because among humans she was wealthy and the best catch available.  Yes now she isn't heir to the mines so she might be in trouble if that was all she had going for her but she is to bare the first Tar heir.  So at least for now she's secure but even after that she is still an official wife and traditionally would get SOME consideration.  It is only because Stahma is a murderer that she would be in any danger after the baby is born.  Still Christie could be 6 ft under and Diedre would still \have ZERO chance of becoming Mrs Tar.  Datak would never accept a whore into the family because part of being Castithans Is being hypocritical  AND  NO WAY can the son marry a whore who has been with the father.  I'm sure it even specifically says so in the sacred scrolls