S08.E04: Elizabeth Keen

[paigow]

As Red and the task force search for Liz, she sets a new plan in motion that has catastrophic consequences.

Airdate: Jan 29 / 21

[edhopper]

What the Fudge! Its not that Liz has become a master criminal, it's that the Team and especially Red became dumber on the order of half their IQ.

I can't  even.

[Chaos Theory]

Elizabeth Keen gets a lot of the blame but  for a black ops group the Black List gang are incredibly weak willed and stupid.  I mean she is on the run for a couple of days and manages to get one of the guys to let her spend the night in his bed and get the other to literally hand over her kid from protective custody.    This show has always been ridiculous but I think it’s hitting the tipping point from ridiculous fun to ridiculous stupid...and I usually like when Red and Liz are going at each other.   Always did say this show was at its best when they were on the same page or ripping that page up.  But maybe the show needs to come to an end.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[mxc90]

Too bad we didn't get to see Liz's call to the NBC executives. Wonder what sleazy deal they agreed to for a 9th season!

Ressler had Liz's sock and his dignity up his ass. I hope he caught a STD! Once Ressler cleared his "head", he should have slapped the cuffs on Liz and all this bull$hit would have been avoided. 

What is preventing Red from telling Liz "F*ck you! I'm changing the will!".

Red never considered Liz would try to meet Marvin and set up a trap to get her?!!

First words out of Aram's mouth to fake Liz: "Liz! I'm sorry!". Then he tells Anges: "your mom is the bravest woman he's ever known". The man has no shame! He, Cooper and Ressler are useless!

Why is Cooper calling her Agent Keen? Didn't she quit her job? What a surprise! Cooper the doofus didn't cancel her access pass! Liz just strolls in to take Agnes, Aram puts up no resistance and for some reason no other agents/SWAT are in the building!

All these men are behaving dumb as hell! Now Red has to torture Marvin because he believed Liz's lie. Red deserves to lose his money to her.

Agent Park! You are my only hope. Please shoot Liz when you get a chance!

I was nodding with approval when Ressler and Aram handed their resignations. For once they made the right move and then that jerk Cooper ruined my satisfaction! 

When Red told Dembe "he didn't have a plan".....That was the writers talking honestly to the audience!!!!!!!!

Edited January 30, 2021 by mxc90

[edhopper]

25 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Elizabeth Keen gets a lot of the blame but  for a black ops group the Black List gang are incredibly weak willed and stupid.  I mean she is in the run for a couple of days and manages to get one of the guys to let her spend the night in his bed and get the other to literally hand over her kid from protective custody.    This show has always been ridiculous but I think it’s hitting the tipping point from ridiculous fun to ridiculous stupid...and I usually like when Red and Liz are going at each other.   Always did say this show was at its best when they were on the same isge or ripping the page up.  But maybe the show need to come to an end.

Hitting the tipping point? It tipped over and went head over heels a couple of seasons ago.

[Just my 2 cents]

24 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

When Red told Dembe "he didn't have a plan".....That was the writers talking honestly to the audience!!!!!!!!

😂. Seriously, this show should have ended season 5.  This story is so convoluted it's like they're throwing in crap to extend the length of the show all because once Red's true identity is revealed it will be the end of the show. 

[mxc90]

12 hours ago, Just my 2 cents said:

😂. Seriously, this show should have ended season 5.  This story is so convoluted it's like they're throwing in crap to extend the length of the show all because once Red's true identity is revealed it will be the end of the show. 

A view at a normal week from the NBC writer's room!

Edited January 30, 2021 by mxc90

[redfish]

Ugh Liz has become the Mary-sue that all the men in the show seem to love or can't help but love. Seriously. Liz needs consequences or else, how is she any different from Red and what moral high ground does she really have? I don't know how can she come back? And does the audience even want her back?

Ressler, Aram and Cooper are so stupid. I think it's best that Agent Park shouldn't trust them when she does all the work to arrest Liz.

 

[anthonyd46]

So the clown trio of Cooper, Ressler, and Aram fall for her tricks again. Tom got some flashback scenes for the first time in a while. I still wonder if he actually is dead or he will just reappear at some point. 

[redfish]

That Russian bad guy that had the conversation with Red implying Liz is off the table. Wouldn't it be ironic that the only thing that has kept Liz being hunted to death by that shadowy organization is Red. Sort of a Pandora's Box scenario, that the moment Liz starts poking/provoking the group that  Red works with backfires on her spectacularly.

 

[dwmarch]

If Liz has learned to think like a criminal, she hasn't learned to think like a smart one. For example:

If one, just one other person had been at the Post Office she would have been done for.
If the Post Office had a means of locking someone out (or locking them in) that would have been it.
If her social engineering attempts on Aram and Ressler had failed her plan goes out the window.
If Reddington had a guy in Tom's old apartment right away Lizzie would be caught and/or dead.
If Reddington didn't fall for the fakeout with Marvin's loyalty and hire the ever-so-convenient lawyer next to him and...
If said backup lawyer didn't randomly switch sides Lizze woulda/coulda/shoulda been toast.

As we saw in this episode with the Capitol staffer, Reddington is a much better social engineer. That part of the episode was actually entertaining.

Interesting that out of all of Red's contacts she didn't even try for Dembe. When she said there was one person who was more valuable than all the rest I thought that was who she meant. Dembe has already shown (indeed in this very episode) that he's not 100% okay with the way Red treats Liz. Then again, this conflict is probably being saved for later in the season.

[Surrealist]

I wish they'd kill off everyone on the show, except for Red, Dembe (I know they're being idiots right now), and Agent Park. 

Ugh on the rest.

Poor Marvin.

That said I can't decide whether young finance/accountant dude is working with Red, or if he's working for some other "dark figure" and is intent on fucking over both Red and Lizzie.

Also, I'm not entirely convinced Tom is dead. And Lizzie might even have a general idea of where he is. That's why she brought Agnes with her on this run.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Surrealist

[paigow]

4 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

Also, I'm not entirely convinced Tom is dead. And Lizzie might even have a general idea of where he is. That's why she brought Agnes with her on this run.

Tom = Vision,  Liz = Stupid Wanda

[Surrealist]

I get the vibe that this show will last until the tenth season, and then the showrunners will finally end this nonsense.

[anthonyd46]

Just now, Surrealist said:

I get the vibe that this show will last until the tenth season, and then the showrunners will finally end this nonsense.

 I think it was posted somewhere on this forum is the ties to Sony & Netflix give the show additional revenue which is what keeps this show on. These last 2 episodes seemed very end game like the show was ending soon, but we know it is not so I'm still confused what direction this show plans to go at this point.

[Surrealist]

51 minutes ago, anthonyd46 said:

 I think it was posted somewhere on this forum is the ties to Sony & Netflix give the show additional revenue which is what keeps this show on. These last 2 episodes seemed very end game like the show was ending soon, but we know it is not so I'm still confused what direction this show plans to go at this point.

That makes sense. I do think the end, if not next season, will come in the tenth. I think because that'll give the show a full decade. I don't see it dragging on beyond that point. 

I think Spader, at the very least, would be done with it by year 10.

Obviously Red is dying, so we think, but they wouldn't stretch this out past season 9 or 10.

I would hope not. Unless it's to set up Megan Boone with her own show based of Lizzie.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Surrealist

[anthonyd46]

9 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

That makes sense. I do think the end, if not next season, will come in the tenth. I think because that'll give the show a full decade. I don't see it dragging on beyond that point. 

I think Spader, at the very least, would be done with it by year 10.

Obviously Red is dying, so we think, but they wouldn't stretch this out past season 9 or 10.

I would hope not. Unless it's to set up Megan Boone with her own show based of Lizzie.

 

 

That would make sense I just wonder if the writers even have a direction at this point lol.

[Surrealist]

2 hours ago, anthonyd46 said:

That would make sense I just wonder if the writers even have a direction at this point lol.

We can say next season, or in the tenth, but then the show somehow manages to drag on for another ten years. LOL.

[anthonyd46]

So as a viewer are we supposed to be behind Liz or Reds side? I mean I personally think Liz is insane at this point to trust whoever "Katerina" was to the point she has.

[paigow]

Skip is going to die a painful, monologue-filled death. 

[NeenerNeener]

7 hours ago, Surrealist said:

Unless it's to set up Megan Boone with her own show based of Lizzie.

That's something I would not watch. I'm really close to bailing out on this version; only Spader keeps me coming back now. Law-and-Order Lizzie as the heir to Red's criminal enterprise is just too ludicrous to believe. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by NeenerNeener

[meira.hand]

9 hours ago, dwmarch said:

If Liz has learned to think like a criminal, she hasn't learned to think like a smart one. For example:

If one, just one other person had been at the Post Office she would have been done for.
If the Post Office had a means of locking someone out (or locking them in) that would have been it.
If her social engineering attempts on Aram and Ressler had failed her plan goes out the window.
If Reddington had a guy in Tom's old apartment right away Lizzie would be caught and/or dead.
If Reddington didn't fall for the fakeout with Marvin's loyalty and hire the ever-so-convenient lawyer next to him and...
If said backup lawyer didn't randomly switch sides Lizze woulda/coulda/shoulda been toast.

I suspect this is why the writers added the unicorn socks for luck, as this is the only way this all worked 🙂

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, NeenerNeener said:

That's something I would not watch. I'm really close to bailing out on this version; only Spader keeps me coming back now. Law-and-Order Lizzie as the heir to Red's criminal enterprise is just too ludicrous to believe. 

Same. I wouldn't watch a show about Elizabeth Keen. I watched Tom's spin-off, but sadly, that one didn't last.

[preeya]

24 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

Same. I wouldn't watch a show about Elizabeth Keen. I watched Tom's spin-off, but sadly, that one didn't last.

The only Keen/Boone spin-off should be to a garbage dump.

What were they thinking when they gave this one another season? The current state of this mess doesn't even warrant comic book status.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, meira.hand said:

I suspect this is why the writers added the unicorn socks for luck, as this is the only way this all worked 🙂

• And the lucky engagement "ring"

[ottoDbusdriver]

It's true -- everyone on this show is getting dumber and dumber with each episode.

By the end of Season 9, they should all be at Idiocracy levels.

They didn't disable Lizzie's security card at the Post Office -- seriously ??


ETA: Forgot to mention -- still no sign of the dogs or Robert Vesco's cat.

Edited January 30, 2021 by ottoDbusdriver

[eyelash]

I had been secretly hoping the series finale episode would feature Red, Keen and the inept FBI folks all killed in a series of shootouts or massive explosions.  Followed by a shot of Glenn the beleaguered DMV worker cackling and counting a pile of money he earned for taking Red's empire down.  Alas, since Clark Middleton (who played Glenn) passed away, it's not to be.   But it will always be my preferred ending.

[paigow]

Did the Russian gangster give Red a flash drive called the Archive?

The same Archive Katerina was already supposed to have? [According to Dom]

Liz is overconfident. thinking that outwitting Ressler makes her Tony Stark level genius... See how she does against hard core Russian mercenaries that will inevitably hunt her down.

[Chaos Theory]

People keep calling Liz a Mary Sue but Red is a Gary Stu.     What difference is there between them really?  When he needs to be clever he is the worlds most clever criminal.    When he needs to be suddenly stupid and irrational he is stupid and irrational.    Plus everyone loves Red the criminal mastermind and does give him special treatment much to the annoyance of other law enforcement groups because “they do good work”.   Which they haven't really done for a few years now.    
 

If anything this show kinda messed up because it didnt pick a lane.   Was it trying to make Elizabeth dark or redeem Red.  I liked Individual storylines going way back to when they made Liz a possible Russian spy.  They could have played off of that or had her continue to make her own list of weird people because she knew Red was playing her.   But every time they dipped their toe in Dark Liz they ended up not diving in and I have no doubt this will end that way to.  Something Something will happen before Liz dies something and everything will go back to something.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[saber5055]

14 hours ago, Just my 2 cents said:

This story is so convoluted it's like they're throwing in crap to extend the length of the show all because once Red's true identity is revealed it will be the end of the show. 

You are so innocent! Does anyone anywhere care about (or even wonder) who Red really is? Lizzie doesn't, the writers don't, no one in the FBI does, and we viewers forgot about that bag of bones and the non-existent DNA tests a few seasons ago.

I have to say, that photo of the show writer really did make me LOL. Great find @mxc90.

This episode beginning with Lizzie and Ressler rolling around in bed made me go "URGH" out loud and turn away. I did wonder how Ressler became so flexible and limber after getting blown up and sporting all those gigantic bandages stuck all over his body. I would have believed their being "such good friends" more if they had been shown watching an old movie on tv and sharing a big tub of popcorn. But the writers had to pull out the old trope of every man can be bought with some free sex. Too bad for Aram he lost out on that deal.

Who has been paying the rent and utilities on Tom's apartment full of electronics? Are they on auto-pay from one of Red's accounts? And if Lizzie needed a place to stay overnight so badly ... oh, never mind.

When Aram and Donald turned in their resignations, I was sure they were going to join The Lizzie Gang. I guess their contracts got renewed for next season, so, no to that.

I'll bet Cooper is SUPER p.o.d Lizzie didn't knock on his door. He's the one with the Big Hots for her over the past few seasons.

As others have noted, great hidden secret top secure office you guys have there at the Post Office. NOT.

My prediction for next season: Lizzie is pregnant with Ressler's kid.

Meanwhile, I'd be fine with Red changing his will and shooting Lizzie in the head, but not before he tells her all, that he's her mother and she's a gigantic dumbass.

Oh: Flashback to Tom proposing to Lizzie, and Lizzie has blond hair. When did that happen? Especially since Red hired Tom to watch over Lizzie to begin with. Of course I don't expect any writers to remember that (major) story line.

[saber5055]

25 minutes ago, eyelash said:

I had been secretly hoping the series finale episode would feature Red, Keen and the inept FBI folks all killed in a series of shootouts or massive explosions.  Followed by a shot of Glenn the beleaguered DMV worker cackling and counting a pile of money he earned for taking Red's empire down.  Alas, since Clark Middleton (who played Glenn) passed away, it's not to be.   But it will always be my preferred ending.

They brought in a new Dom to die on the show, they could do the same with Glenn. I was trying to see if Glenn's name was on the list Lizzie was calling but it was shown too quickly for me to see. But yeah, I'd be fine with Glenn getting all the cash in the end, and he turns out to be some FBI operative after all, or the head of some major crime ring. Yeah, I'd be good with that. And Lizzie sees it all happen before she gets blown to bits and is gone forever, putting us viewers out of our misery once and for all.

Edited January 30, 2021 by saber5055

[Writing Wrongs]

I just realized that Esi is supposed to be Elizabeth's Dembe.

Unless Agent Park falls in lust with Liz too, maybe she'll get something done.

I know you all wanted it, but I've seen enough of Agnes for a while.

Those torture sessions hints are so bizarre and funny at the same time.

I guess the rest of the season we'll have to endure Smug Keen every time she somehow outwits Reddington. Ugh.

 

[milkyaqua]

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I was trying to see if Glenn's name was on the list Lizzie was calling but it was shown too quickly for me to see.

Glenn's name supposedly was one of the ones crossed out on Liz's list according to another reviewer.

I missed chunks of this epi because I forgot it was on and that was after checking tv listings earlier in the day.  I still didn't miss much.

Yes, everyone is stupid and Liz is lucky.  Still doesn't make her interesting or less dumb and annoying than usual.

That was the most we've seen Agnes in I don't know when and yes, she doesn't need to be seen again anytime soon.  She'll probably be in high school by the time this show wraps (why tv people?!).

Red tortures Marvin and leaves all his money available to Skip?  The whole time I'm watching that scene I knew that Skip had hooked up with Liz and that Marvin was telling the truth.  This is just dumb on epic levels.

The post office?  Ugh.  How many of us have worked at jobs where some one left or was shown out and their access/access cards were disabled immediately because no one wants a disgruntled employee to come back and do who knows what?  Just dumb.

Ressler, Aram and Cooper and beyond redeemable now.  Just waiting for Agent Park to go down the Liz hole.

Skip is not long for this world.

This show was so much better when they were just tracking down the blacklister of the week.  When Red told Dembe he didn't have a plan, I shouted at my tv, that was what the rest of us have been saying for several seasons now.  Bokenkamp must have been trying to be funny...

Edited January 30, 2021 by milkyaqua

[paigow]

19 hours ago, milkyaqua said:

That was the most we've seen Agnes in I don't know when and yes, she doesn't need to be seen again anytime soon.  She'll probably be in high school by the time this show wraps (why tv people?!).

So we can meet her boyfriend... Vlad "Red" Vladanov

Edited January 31, 2021 by paigow

[ottoDbusdriver]

The names on Lizzie's list:
-- Tadashi Ito
-- Max Ruddiger
-- Heddie Hawkins
-- Brimley
-- Morgan
-- Tony
-- Glen
-- Chuck

I guess Lizzie is too lazy to learn all their last names.  Or to dumb to remember their last names.

Though I am curious how Tadashi "hacked" the phone numbers of 5 people based solely on their first names.


In the promo for next week they are still calling her 'Agent Keen' -- WTF ?

[preeya]

Someone explain the naked Marvin torture scene.  Was the goat there to chew off his testicles? 

Also, is he (Marvin) really or figuratively dead or has Red taken him back into his "good graces?"

Edited January 31, 2021 by preeya

[paigow]

Just now, preeya said:

Someone explain the naked Marvin torture scene.  Was the goat there to chew off his testicles? 

Also, is he now dead or has Red taken him back into his "good graces?"

I think the goat was head-butting Marvin, cutting skin and causing concurrent internal injuries.

Marvin is going to be patched up at the underground Reddington HMO...

5 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

In the promo for next week they are still calling her 'Agent Keen' -- WTF ?

Maybe FSB / KGB  

[saber5055]

31 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

-- Brimley
-- Morgan
-- Tony
-- Glen
-- Chuck

Wilfred, Freeman, Danza, Campbell and a cross over with Zachary Levi's old teevee show. That some of these people are dead is not a problem with this show.

[Surrealist]

6 hours ago, paigow said:

So we can meet her boyfriend...

Spader looked good in that movie. He was always good at playing sleazy preppies.

One of my movie guilty pleasures is Mannequin, and he's one of the only watchable people. Plays a geekier sleazy preppy in it.

I read an interview where Spader said he didn't mind being the bad guys because those roles are more fun to play.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Surrealist

[Just my 2 cents]

11 hours ago, saber5055 said:

You are so innocent! Does anyone anywhere care about (or even wonder) who Red really is? Lizzie doesn't, the writers don't, no one in the FBI does, and we viewers forgot about that bag of bones and the non-existent DNA tests a few seasons ago.

At this point, I've lost interest in the show because it's veered in a million boring directions.  I think most of us started watching this only because of the interesting blacklist numbered characters.  The characters that they've mostly forgotten about.  I guess I should have clarified.  TPTB for all the years this show has been on have said that when Red's identity is revealed the show will be over.  They're dragging this show out, probably for profit, with the same direction in mind the show will end when Red's identity is revealed.   How about we find out who he is and why.  Maybe it involves all of these different people and clandestine organizations he's discovered for the last 30 years and how they've infiltrated every aspect of world government.  Then they could have the team focus on dismantling them.  Perhaps we could get intelligent Red back and the intelligent Liz and FBI Task Force we were initially promised in season 1.  

I know that what I'm trying to convey probably doesn't translate well in my writing.  I guess to sum this up,  the show  started out interesting or promising and has become one big long drag that could have been ended a long time ago.  Most of us only watched or watch this because of Spader and now his character is no longer interesting.  They've dumbed him down to continue the never-ending Liz/Reddington saga.  He was always at least 2 steps ahead of everyone else.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Just my 2 cents

[anthonyd46]

6 minutes ago, Just my 2 cents said:

At this point, I've lost interest in the show because it's veered in a million boring directions.  I think most of us started watching this only because of the interesting blacklist numbered characters.  The characters that they've mostly forgotten about.  I guess I should have clarified.  TPTB for all the years this show has been on have said that when Red's identity is revealed the show will be over.  They're dragging this show out, probably for profit, with the same direction in mind the show will end when Red's identity is revealed.   How about we find out who he is and why.  Maybe it involves all of these different people and clandestine organizations he's discovered for the last 30 years and how they've infiltrated every aspect of world government.  Then they could have the team focus on dismantling them.  Perhaps we could get intelligent Red back and the intelligent Liz and FBI Task Force we were initially promised in season 1.  

 

 

I agree least we still have the Spader scenes like the one in this episode where he's trying to convince the woman to leave the country. Those are gold.

[Such A Flirt]

I hope Skip is eeeevil. Certainly looked that way when he was getting the money. How can Liz just trust him? Stupid.

As much as I love Spader, I'm ready for Red and Liz to just kill each other at this point. Why do those 3 clowns (Ressler, Aram & Cooper) even care anymore? Oh, right, Liz is supposedly irresistible! Whatever.

[saber5055]

12 hours ago, Such A Flirt said:

How can Liz just trust him? Stupid.

You answered your own question!

[edhopper]

The only way I stay for Season 9 is if they resolve this whole mishagosh this season and go to a whole new story line next. More Liz teams with Red, then Liz fights Red, then she teams up with him again, and is he her f**king father; and I am done

[preeya]

41 minutes ago, edhopper said:

 and is he her f**king father; and I am done

or MOTHER? Many on this board are of the opinion that Red is Liz's mom.

Edited January 31, 2021 by preeya

[paigow]

19 hours ago, Surrealist said:

Spader looked good in that movie

He was a recent guest on Seth Meyers. He admitted that this character looked like a 30 year old high school senior...

[anthonyd46]

7 hours ago, preeya said:

or MOTHER? Many on this board are of the opinion that Red is Liz's mom.

The writers haven't shot this down either every time they have been asked. It kind reminds me of HIMYM when people kept guessing the ending years in advance and the writers never shot it down. 

I still go back to they emphasized the line multiple times "She doesn't know who you are, but I'M HER MOTHER." Just makes me feel its a role and not her true identity. 

[Dowel Jones]

On 1/30/2021 at 7:08 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

still no sign of the dogs or Robert Vesco's cat.

There's still a few slots left on The Blacklist.  Especially for cats.

[BrownBear2012]

This show is truly awful now. It was bad enough last season when the storyline focused on Liz and her "mother". I didn't think it could get much worse until this season. Yikes...it's really bad. Sorry to see it decline so fast after many seasons of interesting and fun storylines. And unbelievably it has been renewed. 

[Dowel Jones]

As Red and the task force search for Liz, she sets a new plan in motion that has catastrophic consequences