S06.E20: The Last Leg

[chlban]

Sorry it was her denist that gave the free teeth, I misread it in all the crazyness.

Whoever paid for it or didn't $150,000 worth of dental implants? What are they implanting, Diamonds? Sonja is certifiable. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Right? I guess we're supposed to believe that Aviva's deathly fear of flying just vanished, and if that pesky asthma had not popped up, then she would've made the trip to Montana (where inhalers and acid reflux meds apparently aren't available).

 

 

Yeah, what happened to that fear of flying?  Didn't she just say she was flying all over for her charity work -- and without Reid.  Didn't she say last season she couldn't go anywhere without him?  

 

Idk, there seems to be a tiny few on here who have suddenly fallen in love with Veevs.  I can't forget how nasty she's been.  She didn't fake that.  Her nastiness has gotta be a big part of her personality.  I wouldn't trust her for a second.  I believe she's evil to the core.  I'm supposed to fall in love with her cuz she's charitable?  Nah, not me.  Serial killers have been known to be charitable.  And that Moaner sorta likes her & will do lunch with her doesn't say much for her either.  As if I give a flying fuckety fuck who Moaner likes.

Edited July 24, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[ParkerWyeth]

Why does Carole disparage the doctor who made the diagnosis?  He is a highly regarded pulmonologist who happens to have patients that are rich and famous.  I doubt his other patients go to him because he is known for writing  a note to get a reality stars out of contractual obligations.  Carole may have experienced some disappointments with the medical field during her husband's terminal cancer but she really needs to stop practicing medicine.  For someone who had the hissy fit of the century over someone questioning her writing credentials what is she doing the same to this physician's reputation?  And yes this doctor's name has been mentioned in connection with the show.

 

So I find myself thinking once again Carole-retract the fangs and stop lashing out and everyone associated with Aviva.  For an alleged war correspondent she should know a little about collateral damage.

She was a war journalist during the Gulf war and Afghanistan. She won 3 Emmys and A Peabody.

 

 

I suspect that she knows like I know that Aviva has never worked...her bio is on Bravo (plus, Carole and Heather actually know Aviva, so I suspect they actually know the same way that I know things about my friends/acquaintances, because they've told me). 

 

Aviva went to Vassar, yes.  She got a Masters Degree in French (??) yes, she went to law school, yes.  Then she...married Harry, had a child and has done what?  Not worked and been supported by her husband(s).  She may do "work like activities" on a charity/volunteer basis, but that's not the same as having a career.  It's just not.  Carole writes to pay her bills, the whole needing to get paid for it actually does make a difference. 

I don't know how much she inherited from her husband, but his family is one of the wealthiest in Poland. It's been reported she's worth about 50M $.

[eurekagirl mOo]

Long time TWOP lurker. I may be in the minority but I loved the episode When Ms. A. threw her leg I laughed so hard I almost fell off the couch. And way to go Heather "I want to go home tonight" Priceless. I thought they broke down the 4th wall pretty well and Miss Andy let Heather break it all down on WWL-that is was all planned by Aviva and that they had all left the table and had to go back to see the ceremonial throwing of the leg. Everything else I could say has been said-Heather looks and acts like the Grinch-her hubby is a big bitch .Caroline's apartment is beautiful. Sonja is as crazy as Aviva in her own way. I so  wish Aviva had thrown the leg before the Hot Wives of Miami was on! I would have loved to see there take on it! Also just learned Rader Online is the sister station of the National Enquirer!

 

[shoegal]

I don't know how much she inherited from her husband, but his family is one of the wealthiest in Poland. It's been reported she's worth about 50M $.

 

 

 

 

I think Carole has mentioned that the rumors of her wealth have been greatly exaggerated, she has more than once stated that she's a single girl with bills to pay.  Now granted, yes, Carole is very well off and she's definitely not hurting, but I don't think she has Radziwill money to live off of, although she may still be benefitting from Radziwill money (like the apartment/travel with Lee/connections, etc).

[zoeysmom]

Yeah, what happened to that fear of flying?  Didn't she just say she was flying all over for her charity work -- and without Reid.  Didn't she say last season she couldn't go anywhere without him?  

 

Idk, there seems to be a tiny few on here who have suddenly fallen in love with Veevs.  I can't forget how nasty she's been.  She didn't fake that.  Her nastiness has gotta be a big part of her personality.  I wouldn't trust her for a second.  I believe she's evil to the core.  I'm supposed to fall in love with her cuz she's charitable?  Nah, not me.  Serial killers have been known to be charitable.  And that Moaner sorta likes her & will do lunch with her doesn't say much for her either.  As if I give a flying fuckety fuck who Moaner likes.

I don't think many people like Aviva because she has always come across very overdramatic, plotting and make crap up type (I can't fly-except to Florida) and has little if any empathy for anyone.  There are times thought when some of the others seek below her level to try and get back at her.  Every once in awhile Aviva is correct and when Carole, for example went after Aviva for lying about her age, Aviva stated age, at the beginning of the filming of the first season was listed as 40.  Carole went to her blog and said Aviva is a liar she is 45 this season.  Well Carole looks like an ass because Aviva produces a passport and her date of birth is 09/09/72.   Aviva would have been correct about her own age and Carole looks like a fool. 

 

As to working or not working many of the RH have big gaps in their bios.  They really aren't CVs or resumes they are just highlight of their lives.  I think many of them held non-descript jobs or their previous employers may not want to be contacted by media to get the lowdown on these woman. 

 

The problem with this franchise is they started with the ridiculous ghostwriter/Bookgate thing and Carole could not let it go.  Ratings dropped, interest among the cast dropped and Aviva dropped out.  All of which should have made the viewers happy, in the eyes of Carole and Heather.  What transpired next is just bad TV-Aviva did not want to be around them.  She claimed health reasons and the storyline then shifted to Aviva being a liar for using asthma for an excuse.  Or when LuAnn staged the ridiculous-you invited Miss USA fight at Aviva's house (Miss USA said she attended the event at the producer's invitation).  So although Aviva has no fans even when she is correct or absent she brings out the worst in others. 

 

I kind of got an inkling what Aviva was going to do with the leg toss when she said knocked on her hollow leg at Sonja's.

 

As to Ramona-over the years she has been there for companionship to whoever has fallen out of favor.  I noticed when Ramona said she had just eaten with Aviva, she was quick to add, "at my restaurant" and I believe she gave the name Alfredo 100.  So Ramona took a shameless plug. 

 

Those who have called Ramona out for being an alcoholic, drunk, or excessive problem drinking-LuAnn (numerous times), Jill, Cindy Barshop, Kelly, Heather, Carole, Russ, Aviva and Kristen.  I think it is pretty safe to say  the only RHONY who have not called her out are Bethenny, Sonja and Alex McCord.

[Nancybeth]

I interpreted Carol's "You're nothing," as "You know nothing about the publishing industry, you're not even a published writer yet, you're not a critic or an editor, and you don't know what you're talking about." 

 

But I love Carole and will pretty much always defend her.  And geez, I thought we wouldn't have to hear anything else about the ghost writer until the reunion, but of course, Aviva had to throw it out during the fight.  Let it go, lady!

 

Sonja's party had me in hysterics before Aviva even threw her leg.  There was something terribly funny about the whole thing -- the assorted collection of attendees, her rambling on and on about her team and her brand, the pigs in a blanket!  Comedy gold!!

[motorcitymom65]

I don't think many people like Aviva because she has always come across very overdramatic, plotting and make crap up type (I can't fly-except to Florida) and has little if any empathy for anyone.  There are times thought when some of the others seek below her level to try and get back at her.  Every once in awhile Aviva is correct and when Carole, for example went after Aviva for lying about her age, Aviva stated age, at the beginning of the filming of the first season was listed as 40.  Carole went to her blog and said Aviva is a liar she is 45 this season.  Well Carole looks like an ass because Aviva produces a passport and her date of birth is 09/09/72.   Aviva would have been correct about her own age and Carole looks like a fool. 

 

The problem with this franchise is they started with the ridiculous ghostwriter/Bookgate thing and Carole could not let it go.  Ratings dropped, interest among the cast dropped and Aviva dropped out.  All of which should have made the viewers happy, in the eyes of Carole and Heather.  What transpired next is just bad TV-Aviva did not want to be around them.  She claimed health reasons and the storyline then shifted to Aviva being a liar for using asthma for an excuse.  Or when LuAnn staged the ridiculous-you invited Miss USA fight at Aviva's house (Miss USA said she attended the event at the producer's invitation).  So although Aviva has no fans even when she is correct or absent she brings out the worst in others. 

 

It's hard to say what she does and does not know about anything. Aviva actually had her age listed as 40 at the beginning of this season on the Bravo Bio (it has since been deleted).  It is funny that she is at the point where she has to show her passport to convince folks of her age. I understand it for the most part, as the web has pretty much been scrubbed of her age. On most sites you go to it lists n/a for her birthday. On others it is listed as Nov. 1972.  The kicker (and some sites note the strangeness of this) is that her own website lists her birthday as 1970. Another example of why it is impossible to believe anything you might hear from her. I wonder what she says her birthday is in her book, but not enough to actually buy it. 

 

http://avivadrescher.com/

 

Most folks won't agree about who wouldn't let bookgate go. It seems like the person in the wrong always wants folks to let things go, and the person who was been harmed is judged for not being able too.  Last season pretty much ended after Aviva went off on Ramona and Sonja, and 16 months had passed before this season. Apparently neither one of them talked to her in that time, so we didn't see the animosity.  I am assuming had they been filming that we would have seen both Sonja and Ramona hold a grudge for being called White Trash for more than a few episodes.  What Aviva did to Carole was much more severe, so I would think she would be OK to hold on to her anger for at least as long as Sonja and Ramona held onto theirs. 

 

Regarding the Miss USA deal, it is hard for me to find a way to not throw some blame at Aviva.  She was the one telling the story about the threesome, on camera, to a group of gals. She was at the very least in on it with production. She swore that her dad wouldn't lie, but how strange it is that I never heard her say much after that. Of course no one believes one single word of it, and she doesn't either. I had completely forgotten about this little nugget when I mentally list all the ways in which she has made shit up over the year.  It is yet another example of how Aviva just makes up shit as she goes along, not particularly caring if she harms another persons reputation or not. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by motorcitymom65

[breezy424]

I am really turned off by the whole mommy wars thing, but I took this as a statement to Aviva that she's never worked or had a career that she cared about, perhaps it was inartfully phrased, which happens when you are pissed off at someone, but I don't believe that what she said is indicative of Carole's opinion of SAHM's.  MMV obviously.

Carole even made it very clear in her blog that week that she would consider it a privilige to be a stay at home mom if she had children.  She also said the point was about Aviva's put down of Carole's career and Aviva all of a sudden being an expert in the publishing business.  According to Aviva, writing a book is liking writing a long email.  Also, when Carole said to Aviva that she was nothing, it was after Aviva kept claiming Carole had a ghost writer and asked Carole who are you?  How many books have you written?  One,  who are you, John Grisham?  Stephen King?  That's when Carole said who are you?  You're nothing.  You've never even had a job outside the home. 

[diva2themax]

On Aviva's own website she said she was born in 1970 http://www.avivadrescher.com/

home girl is probably even lying about that. That is a dried up, hag face she has. She's much closer to 50 than 40 it's pretty obvious.

Edited July 24, 2014 by diva2themax

[Satchels of gold]

I really hope Carole clears up the "you are nothing" statement at the reunion. I want to like her but she has some splaining (tm Ricky Ricardo ) to do before I forgive and forget. I took off 6 months when I adopted my daughter and I was practically foaming at the mouth to go back to work. I felt so guilty for feeling this way but it's how I felt. Women have it hard, no matter what you do, someone always has some judgement to make.

[Nanny pants]

I just finished reading Ramona's blog and, I'm sorry, but her characterizing Sonja as having a "heart of gold" just does not sit well with me. I've read the detailed articles about the lawsuit that has caused poor Sonja such dismay, and "heart of gold" is hardly descriptive of the deceptive, calculated, entitled, outright nasty actions of our dear Ms. Morgan. Delusional is the kindest thing one can say about her. The trustees need to kick her and her French tea towels out of that townhouse, sell it to satisfy the judgment and let Team Sonja figure it out.

[Mozelle]

Exactly. As far as I'm concerned, the other ladies have every right to question and pass judgement on Aviva's fleeting ailments and phobias if she's going to continue to use them as a tool to fit her warped agenda. Especially given all the times Aviva has nastily berated the others in regards to everything from their livelihoods and lifestyles, to their mothering and behavior at events where she wasn't even present.

Right? I guess we're supposed to believe that Aviva's deathly fear of flying just vanished, and if that pesky asthma had not popped up, then she would've made the trip to Montana (where inhalers and acid reflux meds apparently aren't available).

Yeah, props to Carole for being twice the person Aviva is and doing that. Personally, I wouldn't have done it, because if Aviva doesn't give a shit about her prosthesis, then why should anybody else? It would've been hilarious if nobody retrieved it, leaving that loonfuck to fend for herself.

Sonja is a damn kook, but she was rockin' that tuxedo.

That is precisely what Aviva wanted. It was better that she didn't get that. Carole states in her blog that Aviva had even asked Harry to carry her out (which means Aviva had long planned the leg throw), but he said no. Carole bringing back Aviva's leg kind let some of the wind out of Aviva's sail, no doubt.

Carole even made it very clear in her blog that week that she would consider it a privilige to be a stay at home mom if she had children. She also said the point was about Aviva's put down of Carole's career and Aviva all of a sudden being an expert in the publishing business. According to Aviva, writing a book is liking writing a long email. Also, when Carole said to Aviva that she was nothing, it was after Aviva kept claiming Carole had a ghost writer and asked Carole who are you? How many books have you written? One, who are you, John Grisham? Stephen King? That's when Carole said who are you? You're nothing. You've never even had a job outside the home.

All of this. There's a whole of lot of context stripping going on simply to tar Carole with a SAHM-hater brush. Aviva had just been condescending about Carole's work as a journalist and writer (especially the "Who are you?" part), and in the heat of anger, Carole responded in kind. I'm expected to believe that in the heat of the moment, Aviva ripped off her prosthetic leg but somehow the same consideration for Carole's verbal response in an argument can't be given? Oh. OK. Edited July 25, 2014 by Mozelle

[msblossom]

This episode and franchise are dull. I could at least count on Heather to bring some quality to this show but she has proven to be so far up Carole's ass that she has become as ridiculous as the other HW's with the exception of LuAnn. I am really sick of Heather thinking she's the big shot of this group. Good luck and good riddens to RHONY -- you were the best of all the franchises once upon a time.

[zoeysmom]

In the on-going war of if it is drama for drama's sake-here is an interesting interview with Carole before the season aired.  She talks about production and her let down.  http://www.mediabistro.com/So-What-Do-You-Do-Carole-Radziwill-Journalist-Author-and-Reality-TV-Star-a12019.html

Of all the HWs on the show I do think Carole is the least likely to play to production-there are moments but I don't think she involves herself in the set-ups like someone like Tamra Barney does.

 

One another thing that made me very uncomfortable this episode.  Heather and the doctor.  I thought it was oh so nice of the physician to agree to be filmed with the family and to make the phone call on a holiday weekend with good news.  I can only imagine how terribly burned he feels by Heather announcing that his professional opinion was wrong (it would improve or restore the child's hearing) and she was going with the second opinion.  Really nice way to crap on someone's reputation. Why not just show the second opinion?   Which always brings up the age old question why not get the second opinion first?  Heather, the defender of professional reputations, either didn't give much thought to the physician's reputation or was anxious for camera time.  The part about Jax making the decision and his assessment that his ears were fine was just too much for me to bear.

On Aviva's own website she said she was born in 1970 http://www.avivadrescher.com/

home girl is probably even lying about that. That is a dried up, hag face she has. She's much closer to 50 than 40 it's pretty obvious.

Her passport says 09/09/70.  Which would have made her 42 at the time the episode was filmed and 40 when she joined the cast.  Interesting there is an interview with Aviva and the magazine states she is 45.  Oh well just goes to show the reporter believes Carole over Aviva. 

[motorcitymom65]

Her passport says 09/09/70.  Which would have made her 42 at the time the episode was filmed and 40 when she joined the cast.  Interesting there is an interview with Aviva and the magazine states she is 45.  Oh well just goes to show the reporter believes Carole over Aviva. 

I don't think the issue is as much Aviva's actual age, but about the fact that she claimed to be younger at the beginning of this season than when she started the show, two years before.  Last season her bio accurately gave her age as 41 (she was almost 42 when her season began in June of 2012). This season suddenly her age was listed as 40. That was what jumped out at people - that she had shaved a few years off. Now all mention of her age have been taken off her Bravo Bio, but I don't think anyone lists their age any longer so that is not a big deal.  

Edited July 24, 2014 by motorcitymom65

[Duke2801]

One another thing that made me very uncomfortable this episode.  Heather and the doctor.  I thought it was oh so nice of the physician to agree to be filmed with the family and to make the phone call on a holiday weekend with good news.  I can only imagine how terribly burned he feels by Heather announcing that his professional opinion was wrong (it would improve or restore the child's hearing) and she was going with the second opinion.  Really nice way to crap on someone's reputation. Why not just show the second opinion?   Which always brings up the age old question why not get the second opinion first?  Heather, the defender of professional reputations, either didn't give much thought to the physician's reputation or was anxious for camera time.  The part about Jax making the decision and his assessment that his ears were fine was just too much for me to bear.

 

 

Are we really at the point where we're so jazzed to find more things to hate on about Heather and Carole that we are taking what was actually a very nice moment with Heather and her husband and making it ugly?

 

Just because they went with the opinion of the 2nd doctor is NO way shape or forms means that they are "crapping all over" the first doctor's reputation. I'm actually baffled at how somebody could have possibly deduced that from the scenes we've been shown.

 

I mean, the first docotr never seemed to even imply that he was *encouraging* them to do it, just that it was a possibility.  And in Heather and Carole's conversation in the store, it wasn't like she was saying "Well Dr. A's opinion is clearly WRONG so we are going with Dr. B."  No.  She made it sound like they were quite torn over what to do.  But the fact that her son, who has probably been through so many damn operations and procedures in his young life, said -- hey mom, I'm cool if we don't do the operation.... yeah, that'd be the deciding vote for me. 

 

And I highly doubt Dr. A would begrudge them that decision.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Duke2801

[LotusFlower]

One another thing that made me very uncomfortable this episode.  Heather and the doctor.  I thought it was oh so nice of the physician to agree to be filmed with the family and to make the phone call on a holiday weekend with good news.  I can only imagine how terribly burned he feels by Heather announcing that his professional opinion was wrong (it would improve or restore the child's hearing) and she was going with the second opinion.  Really nice way to crap on someone's reputation. 

She never said it was wrong. Geez. She said they decided to go the less invasive way. People get second opinions all the time. In fact, it's the cautious and smart thing to do. And not going with the first option of surgery does not make that option wrong, but not their choice at this time.

[jimene79]

Yeah - I don't think Heather did anything out of the ordinary.  She got two differing opinions and went with one.  She never said anyone was wrong or a terrible doctor.  In that position, you have to make a choice.  

[ryebread]

Are we really at the point where we're so jazzed to find more things to hate on about Heather and Carole that we are taking what was actually a very nice moment with Heather and her husband and making it ugly?

No, I think we're just at the point where the discussion about Aviva is beat to death.  Whether it's the constant raking of her over the coals or the occasional, rare attempt to understand her motives, she's been the main focus of not only this forum but every other RHONY forum AND the show for a long time. The debate is circular. 

 

Being critical of Heather and Carole is just something new to do.  It's clearly not going to be up everyone's alley but neither is pages and pages and pages of Aviva is a liar and a psycho bitch.

 

Personally, I'd like to discuss how I think Luann really did get in the cab alone with Harry and that the other Hos are covering for her.  Any takers?

[Chit Chat]

I think Carole has mentioned that the rumors of her wealth have been greatly exaggerated, she has more than once stated that she's a single girl with bills to pay.

That might be so, but I figure that her idea of what defines wealth is very different than mine!  I was buying into the notion that she might not be as rich as I thought until I realized that she has an apartment in NYC and a house in California.  I have no doubt that she's doing well.  It's kind of like hearing Hillary Clinton whine about how "poor" they were when they left the White House, and how hard it was to meet the mortgages (not just a mortgage, but mortgages.)  Not that Carole was complaining, it's just that I think she's better off than she lets on.

 

Personally, I'd like to discuss how I think Luann really did get in the cab alone with Harry and that the other Hos are covering for her.  Any takers?

Luann told Sonja that her beef wasn't with her, but with Harry and why he left her at the party. So that sounds like they left separately.  Now Heather says they all left together, so I'm picturing Luann & Harry in a separate cab, with everybody else following and heading to the same location. I still question Sonja's story of chasing down their cab.  If that's not true, then what are the circumstances surrounding her injury?  Why wasn't she in the cab with everybody else?  I don't believe that Luann had any intention of being romantic with Harry.  I wish we could see all of the footage of them leaving the party.  It is a bit confusing.

Edited July 24, 2014 by ChitChat

[Duke2801]

No, I think we're just at the point where the discussion about Aviva is beat to death.  Whether it's the constant raking of her over the coals or the occasional, rare attempt to understand her motives, she's been the main focus of not only this forum but every other RHONY forum AND the show for a long time. The debate is circular. 

 

Being critical of Heather and Carole is just something new to do.  It's clearly not going to be up everyone's alley but neither is pages and pages and pages of Aviva is a liar and a psycho bitch.

 

Personally, I'd like to discuss how I think Luann really did get in the cab alone with Harry and that the other Hos are covering for her.  Any takers?

 

I can't recall the discussions about the previous season, but I honestly think there's been a pretty equal amount of bashing between all the aforementioned women this season.  

 

Heather was raked over the coals for her "confrontation" of Amanda at Lu's Hamptons house, her behavior in Montana (which I AGREED was totally uncalled for) and a number of other things.  Carole.  Well, Carole is lambasted for everything from daring to flirt with younger guys and her "age-inappropriate" wardrobe to her alleged vitriol for non-working mothers. 

 

That being said, even if the majority of the bashing had been heaped upon Aviva, I would still say that Heather did nothing to try to undermine the first doctor's reputation (again, from the scenes we've been shown --- if she's writing disparaging reviews about him on RateMD.com, I'm not aware).

[zoeysmom]

Yeah - I don't think Heather did anything out of the ordinary.  She got two differing opinions and went with one.  She never said anyone was wrong or a terrible doctor.  In that position, you have to make a choice.  

She said the second opinion physician did not think the procedure would restore his hearing which would be in direct contrast to what the filmed first physician said. So in essence Heather was saying the original physician was wrong. Being around physicians a great deal, most of the them encourage the patients to get a second opinion.  It is just that usually the opinion you go with is the one you would make public not the one you declined.  Maybe the second opinion physician was smarter than the first because he or she did not agree to be filmed.  I never said Heather said the filmed physician was a terrible doctor.

 

What Heather did do was have the dramatic breakdown and say, "if I could do just one thing," and then led us to believe there was one thing she could do for her son.  I think it could have been updated sooner or Heather could have answered the question more honestly on her May 20th appearance on WWHL.  Perhaps the finale scene was filmed after her WWHL appearance. 

 

There was just too much layperson substituting their opinion for the professional this season for my taste.  I am certainly not saying the child should have had the surgery.

[RedheadZombie]

On a lighter note, I thought Carole looked her best at the purse store.  Her hair was pulled back in a ponytail, and she was wearing casual jeans.  I thought her hair colour looked good as well as her makeup.  She certainly isn't too old for long hair, but I think her current length is too long for most people of any age.

 

In the flashback scene of Heather calling Aviva a mother fucker, and Aviva asking Heather if she learned that in prison, I noticed for the first time that Josh is braying like a donkey in the background.  He absolutely loved what happened and that just reinforces his asshole reputation for me.  It was a heated situation, and he acted like he was about to be treated to some female mud wrestling.

[BloggerAloud]

Kristen's relationship with Josh makes think it's like if you took Megan and Don Draper and put them on a reality show in terms of her being the pretty trophy wife/model with her emotionally distant husband. Even the whole getting to do an ad because of her husband's influence seems like quite a Don/Megan-esque thing to happen.

[Mozelle]

Are we really at the point where we're so jazzed to find more things to hate on about Heather and Carole that we are taking what was actually a very nice moment with Heather and her husband and making it ugly?

 

Just because they went with the opinion of the 2nd doctor is NO way shape or forms means that they are "crapping all over" the first doctor's reputation. I'm actually baffled at how somebody could have possibly deduced that from the scenes we've been shown.

 

I mean, the first docotr never seemed to even imply that he was *encouraging* them to do it, just that it was a possibility.  And in Heather and Carole's conversation in the store, it wasn't like she was saying "Well Dr. A's opinion is clearly WRONG so we are going with Dr. B."  No.  She made it sound like they were quite torn over what to do.  But the fact that her son, who has probably been through so many damn operations and procedures in his young life, said -- hey mom, I'm cool if we don't do the operation.... yeah, that'd be the deciding vote for me. 

 

And I highly doubt Dr. A would begrudge them that decision.

Girl, yes! We are at that point now where getting a second opinion on a surgery is undermining Doctor A's opinion.

[RedheadZombie]

Personally, I'd like to discuss how I think Luann really did get in the cab alone with Harry and that the other Hos are covering for her.  Any takers?

 

I would like to think that even at her most vulnerable, LuAnn wouldn't rebound with Harry.  She seems to like younger men, or even short submissive Frenchman.  Harry doesn't qualify.

[Brooke0707]

Kristen's relationship with Josh makes think it's like if you took Megan and Don Draper and put them on a reality show in terms of her being the pretty trophy wife/model with her emotionally distant husband. Even the whole getting to do an ad because of her husband's influence seems like quite a Don/Megan-esque thing to happen.

 

Perhaps, but only if you ignore Don's charisma, charm, likeability (he lost me for a few seasons but he still is light years ahead of Josh), and good looks.

[chlban]

I think Carole has mentioned that the rumors of her wealth have been greatly exaggerated, she has more than once stated that she's a single girl with bills to pay.  Now granted, yes, Carole is very well off and she's definitely not hurting, but I don't think she has Radziwill money to live off of, although she may still be benefitting from Radziwill money (like the apartment/travel with Lee/connections, etc).

I seem to recall the apartment came courtesy of the Bouvier side of the family, specifically Jackie left Anthony one of President Kennedy's rocking chairs that paid for the apartment. Jackie died in 1994 so I am sure Real Estate prices were considerably better in the 90's.

 

I did not get the impression that there was anything near that amount of money available either to Carole or Anthony when he was alive.  

Edited July 24, 2014 by chlban

[Lisin]

OK guys, lets cool it with the sniping and calling each other out for our opinions. Snark the show, snark the idiots on the show, don't snark each other. I've deleted a couple of comments and I won't hesitate to delete more if needed. Thanks.

[chlban]

Kristen's relationship with Josh makes think it's like if you took Megan and Don Draper and put them on a reality show in terms of her being the pretty trophy wife/model with her emotionally distant husband. Even the whole getting to do an ad because of her husband's influence seems like quite a Don/Megan-esque thing to happen.

Interesting concept. Additionally I hate Kristen almost as much as I hate Megan and they are both, IMO, horrible actresses. 

 However, I think we can all agree, emotionally distant he may be, but Don Draper is sooooooo much better eye candy than ugly Josh. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by chlban

[jaync]

She said the second opinion physician did not think the procedure would restore his hearing which would be in direct contrast to what the filmed first physician said.

IIRC, when John asked the first doctor if the surgery would help Jax's hearing, the doctor just said it was a possibility, not a sure thing.

[OFDgal]

Ratched, I was coming to ask the same question! Inquiring minds want to know!!

Luann's reaction to the leg throw was priceless. She looked like she was going to pee her pants from laughing so hard.

Agree.  She made me laugh out loud.

[NothingUrgent]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up or not, but Sonja's blog is another rambling, unintentionally fumy, pile of nonsense.  This particular item stood out for me:

 

I felt left out by my girlfriend LuAnn and didn't feel the commitment to commit from Harry. However, I don't feel that LuAnn did it to spite me -- as Kristen asked when she came to visit. LuAnn and I had a heart-to-heart at Heather and Carole's party. We discussed how I want her to have a guy thats her "forever guy." Even though I love Jacques, I told him at the Life and Style party that I love LuAnn a lot more. I knew that the relationship was not going to be forever. I am very intuitive. I have a Pisces moon.

So is it just her wonky wording, or is she actually saying she would love to be with Jacques if she didn't have more love for LuAnn?  I really hope that whole "Commit to talking about a commitment" scene was fake.  Otherwise it was so sad to think Sonja was actually buying it.  Ad for the record, I thought their PDA was gross.  

 

The entire story now doesn't make sense to me.  In Carol's blog and Heather and LuAnn on WWHL all say that Sonja left for the alternate club together and party on some more.  However, when LuAnn was at Sonja's the next morning, she said she thought Sonja had gone home.  I still don't think we know the whole story, but I do think the LuAnn/Harry hook-up or leaving together thing was producer driven setup.  They made it look like LuAnn and Harry left early, but then showed LuAnn warbling out that tune with Heather at the end of the night.  And really Sonja, did you not catch when Harry said he wishes he would have banged LuAnn?  How can you not punch him in the nose and stomp out of that place.   

[MatildaMoody]

 

What Heather did do was have the dramatic breakdown and say, "if I could do just one thing," and then led us to believe there was one thing she could do for her son.  I think it could have been updated sooner or Heather could have answered the question more honestly on her May 20th appearance on WWHL.  Perhaps the finale scene was filmed after her WWHL appearance.

I don't think she led us to believe that this was the one thing she could do for her son. I think she let us see how hopeful she was that this was the thing that she COULD actually do. 

 

As for why she didn't go into detail about their decision not to have the surgery on WWHL, I just assumed it was because it was going to be addressed in the episode, and she didn't want to give away too much information.

 

And, as Jaync stated, the first doctor never said definitively that the surgery would help. He just said that it was likely. I would expect that the first doctor not only expected Heather to get a second opinion, but encouraged her to do so. Most really good doctors do expect and even sometimes encourage a second opinion - many of the ones I have dealt with have even recommended other doctors from whom to get the second opinion.

 

So, I didn't think that Heather did anything wrong by getting another opinion, and then talking to Jax before making her decision. 

 

ETA: 

 

The only odd thing I  noticed about Heather and the Dr. scene was that she decided to let Jax decide to have the surgery or not.  I hope she meant for just a short time.

 

I didn't get the impression that she let Jax have the final say. I think she let him have A say, which I thought was important. Jax has had to endure many invasive procedures in his young life. Giving him some say helps empower him so that the doesn't have to constantly be afraid that he is going to have to go through yet another procedure that may help him but cause other issues for which he may have to go through some other invasive procedure soon after.

Edited July 24, 2014 by MatildaMoody

[ryebread]

On a lighter note, I thought Carole looked her best at the purse store. 

 

In the flashback scene of Heather calling Aviva a mother fucker, and Aviva asking Heather if she learned that in prison, I noticed for the first time that Josh is braying like a donkey in the background.  He absolutely loved what happened and that just reinforces his asshole reputation for me.  It was a heated situation, and he acted like he was about to be treated to some female mud wrestling.

I thought she looked good at her birthday party.  Her hair looked pretty and her make up was perfect.  Her red dress was almost better than Bethenny's famous red dress.

 

The only odd thing I  noticed about Heather and the Dr. scene was that she decided to let Jax decide to have the surgery or not.  I hope she meant for just a short time. He's what, seven or eight?  I understand letting the child have some control over the situation but if the first Dr's. assessment was correct about the skin growing and closing up the ear canal, I'd make sure that wasn't happening before telling my kid he could decide to have a surgery or not.  The hearing test we saw showed that he was clearly having some problems. 

[LotusFlower]

IIRC, when John asked the first doctor if the surgery would help Jax's hearing, the doctor just said it was a possibility, not a sure thing.

Plus, doctors NEVER talk in absolutes. Esp. in regard to surgery. Anything can happen, which is why they can, and often do, talk risks and percentages.

Most really good doctors do expect and even sometimes encourage a second opinion - many of the ones I have dealt with have even recommended other doctors from whom to get the second opinion.

And conversely, any doctor who is NOT ok with you getting a second opinion should get major side-eye.

[ryebread]

I would like to think that even at her most vulnerable, LuAnn wouldn't rebound with Harry.  She seems to like younger men, or even short submissive Frenchman.  Harry doesn't qualify.

I'd like to think so, too, but I think the nurse has a naughty side. Wasn't she caught, drunk in the bushes at a party with someone not her husband? LOL  She's done Harry before and I think she was having a problem with Sonja at the time.  I generally like Luann but there are times she will say or write something and I think, "There's some seething under the surface. It doesn't come out often but it's there. Hell hath no fury like a Countess scorned."

 

 

The entire story now doesn't make sense to me.  In Carol's blog and Heather and LuAnn on WWHL all say that Sonja left for the alternate club together and party on some more.  However, when LuAnn was at Sonja's the next morning, she said she thought Sonja had gone home.  I still don't think we know the whole story, but I do think the LuAnn/Harry hook-up or leaving together thing was producer driven setup.  They made it look like LuAnn and Harry left early, but then showed LuAnn warbling out that tune with Heather at the end of the night.  And really Sonja, did you not catch when Harry said he wishes he would have banged LuAnn?  How can you not punch him in the nose and stomp out of that place.   

I agree. Something's stinky there.  Also I missed the part with Heather and Lu singing at the end of the night. 

[imjagain]

I would like to think that even at her most vulnerable, LuAnn wouldn't rebound with Harry. She seems to like younger men, or even short submissive Frenchman. Harry doesn't qualify.

This.

And I see no reason for the other women to cover for Lu. They didn't cover for her and the greasy pirate. That would have been the time to try to protect her relationship with Jacques.

Edited July 25, 2014 by imjagain

[sasha206]

Aviva's downfall really perplexes me.  Her first couple of episodes, I really admired her.  She seemed like a beautiful, intelligent woman who handled her issue with grace and humor.  Was that the *real* Aviva?  It seems like as soon as he father entered the RHONY franchise, her entire persona changed.  It was almost like he came onto the show to remind her of who she really is -- a daughter with a very controlling and inappropriately sexual father.

 

She had the ability to do great things and come off like an elegant woman who did well despite what happened to her.  Instead she turned into this neurotic mess where people actually feel entitled to poke fun at her leg situation because she's an attention whore.

[LotusFlower]

Instead she turned into this neurotic mess where people actually feel entitled to poke fun at her leg situation because she's an attention whore.

I would say it's who she is (among other things), not who she turned into.

[sasha206]

I would say it's who she is (among other things), not who she turned into.

 

Could be although so much of her breakdowns seemed manufactured to me. I think that is what confuses me.  In her first couple of RHONY episodes, she seemed very natural and low keyed.  At most, she maybe shit stirred a bit.  But she never struck me as being a put on or really being neurotic.  Then when I think she was viewed as being boring, suddenly the bad behavior starts.  

 

It's just hard for me to believe that the leg throwing woman is *really* the true Aviva and not an "I'm now addicted to celebrity so I'm going to pull out all the stops to stay on this show." 

[MatildaMoody]

 

Instead she turned into this neurotic mess where people actually feel entitled to poke fun at her leg situation because she's an attention whore.

To be fair, I think Aviva pokes more fun at her leg than anyone else on the show. She has kind of made it her shtick with the puns and the throwing an expensive prosthesis on the floor as though it was nothing more than an exclamation point to be used willy-nilly (I hate the overuse of exclamation points that has become prevalent, mainly due to social media).

 

I mean, I get the whole "make a joke out of it before someone else does" stance. But, I think that for all of Aviva's proclamations in her blog about how horrible Kristen was for her reaction to the prosthesis on the table, Aviva was much more offensive in her treatment of said prosthesis.

 

My grandmother lost her leg in childhood, and I can only imagine how horrified she would be that Aviva played that moment for drama the way she did. Of course, my grandmother was also a very very demure black woman from the South. So she would have been horrified at the idea of a shoe on the dinner table next to the dishes, let alone a shoe that contained a prosthetic leg (she would have considered it unladylike and possibly something that only "white trash" would do - I didn't say my grandmother was a PC black woman from the South), so that is definitely a "Mileage may vary" thing.

 

ETA:

 

 

It's just hard for me to believe that the leg throwing woman is *really* the true Aviva and not an "I'm now addicted to celebrity so I'm going to pull out all the stops to stay on this show.

The only reason I think that she was willing to pull out all of the stops to stay on the show was that she actually rented a REALLY expensive apartment in order to film this season because her prior place didn't allow filming. Whether or not it was because she was addicted to the fame is something else entirely. 

 

When I heard that she agreed to come back and that she had rented a place just so that they could film, I thought it was because she wanted to rehab her image after the prior season. But, seeing the way she relished being the villain in the first few episodes (as evidenced by her blogs), I can't be sure what her real reasons were for coming back. 

Edited July 25, 2014 by MatildaMoody

[ScoobieDoobs]

No, I think we're just at the point where the discussion about Aviva is beat to death.

 

Yeah, I agree.  It'll be interesting to see how it goes for Veevs at the reunion.  Can she redeem herself?  If it's just more anger, bitterness, whining about not being believed for whatever -- or more of her toxic nastiness -- I would say no fuckin' way.  And that's the way it looks from the sneering snippy shit I saw of her in the preview.  I wanna see how Andy is with her.  Is he gonna show his cards that he's really annoyed as fuck with her for bailing on the trips?  Doubt it.  He's coy as shit.  So we're gonna have to look real close to see what he's really thinkin'.

Edited July 25, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[sasha206]

I also can't help but wonder if Aviva's dad pressured her to be on the show and having him in her life was more toxic to her than this show.  She was so beautiful early on and then he comes into the picture and a year later she looks so haggard and depressed.  It wouldn't surprise me if that sexual predator has such a hold over her that he forces his way into her life and then she out of guilt pretends that he's just a sexual funny guy.

 

Watching him and hearing the sexually inappropriate comments he's made to his own daughter suggests that he's toxic to her and the source for her neurotic tendencies. 

To be fair, I think Aviva pokes more fun at her leg than anyone else on the show. She has kind of made it her shtick with the puns and the throwing an expensive prosthesis on the floor as though it was nothing more than an exclamation point to be used willy-nilly (I hate the overuse of exclamation points that has become prevalent, mainly due to social media).

 

I mean, I get the whole "make a joke out of it before someone else does" stance. But, I think that for all of Aviva's proclamations in her blog about how horrible Kristen was for her reaction to the prosthesis on the table, Aviva was much more offensive in her treatment of said prosthesis.

 

My grandmother lost her leg in childhood, and I can only imagine how horrified she would be that Aviva played that moment for drama the way she did. Of course, my grandmother was also a very very demure black woman from the south. So she would have been horrified at the idea of a shoe on the dinner table next to the dishes, let alone a shoe that contained a prosthetic leg (she would have considered it unladylike and possibly something that only "white trash" would do - I didn't say my grandmother was a PC black woman from the South), so that is definitely a "Mileage may vary" thing.

 

ETA:

 

The only reason I think that she was willing to pull out all of the stops to stay on the show was that she actually rented a REALLY expensive apartment in order to film this season because her prior place didn't allow filming. Whether or not it was because she was addicted to the fame is something else entirely. 

 

When I heard that she agreed to come back and that she had rented a place just so that they could film, I thought it was because she wanted to rehab her image after the prior season. But, seeing the way she relished being the villain in the first few episodes (as evidenced by her blogs), I can't be sure what her real reasons were for coming back. 

 

I hear you on that.  

 

But to me, it's like a fat person making jokes about their weight.  Just because they are self-deprecating doesn't mean it's okay for you to poke fun.  

 

I'm not a fan of Aviva's but for fux sake, I don't know how you go through all that and not have some major fucking issues.  A little empathy and not a gang up goes a long way.

To be fair, I think Aviva pokes more fun at her leg than anyone else on the show. She has kind of made it her shtick with the puns and the throwing an expensive prosthesis on the floor as though it was nothing more than an exclamation point to be used willy-nilly (I hate the overuse of exclamation points that has become prevalent, mainly due to social media).

 

I mean, I get the whole "make a joke out of it before someone else does" stance. But, I think that for all of Aviva's proclamations in her blog about how horrible Kristen was for her reaction to the prosthesis on the table, Aviva was much more offensive in her treatment of said prosthesis.

 

My grandmother lost her leg in childhood, and I can only imagine how horrified she would be that Aviva played that moment for drama the way she did. Of course, my grandmother was also a very very demure black woman from the south. So she would have been horrified at the idea of a shoe on the dinner table next to the dishes, let alone a shoe that contained a prosthetic leg (she would have considered it unladylike and possibly something that only "white trash" would do - I didn't say my grandmother was a PC black woman from the South), so that is definitely a "Mileage may vary" thing.

 

ETA:

 

The only reason I think that she was willing to pull out all of the stops to stay on the show was that she actually rented a REALLY expensive apartment in order to film this season because her prior place didn't allow filming. Whether or not it was because she was addicted to the fame is something else entirely. 

 

When I heard that she agreed to come back and that she had rented a place just so that they could film, I thought it was because she wanted to rehab her image after the prior season. But, seeing the way she relished being the villain in the first few episodes (as evidenced by her blogs), I can't be sure what her real reasons were for coming back. 

 

I hear you on that.  

 

But to me, it's like a fat person making jokes about their weight.  Just because they are self-deprecating doesn't mean it's okay for you to poke fun.  

 

I'm not a fan of Aviva's but for fux sake, I don't know how you go through all that and not have some major fucking issues.  A little empathy and not a gang up goes a long way.

The other thing that kills me is that Kristin gets hit with a plastic wine glass barely causing any damage to her face and we hear about this episode after episode and she has the gall to tell a woman who has lost a leg in a traumatic accident at 6 years old that she's neurotic?

[ryebread]

 

The only odd thing I  noticed about Heather and the Dr. scene was that she decided to let Jax decide to have the surgery or not.  I hope she meant for just a short time.

 

I didn't get the impression that she let Jax have the final say. I think she let him have A say, which I thought was important. Jax has had to endure many invasive procedures in his young life. Giving him some say helps empower him so that the doesn't have to constantly be afraid that he is going to have to go through yet another procedure that may help him but cause other issues for which he may have to go through some other invasive procedure soon after.

I absolutely agree and said as such upthread that it's important for a child to have a say, to feel in some control. I'm a former Kindergarten teacher and am now a volunteer in a children's hospital. You outlined the reasons perfectly why a child needs a voice.  Here's the part of my post you left out:

The only odd thing I  noticed about Heather and the Dr. scene was that she decided to let Jax decide to have the surgery or not. *** I hope she meant for just a short time. He's what, seven or eight?  I understand letting the child have some control over the situation but if the first Dr's. assessment was correct about the skin growing and closing up the ear canal, I'd make sure that wasn't happening before telling my kid he could decide to have a surgery or not.***

[LotusFlower]

Could be although so much of her breakdowns seemed manufactured to me. I think that is what confuses me.  In her first couple of RHONY episodes, she seemed very natural and low keyed.  At most, she maybe shit stirred a bit.  But she never struck me as being a put on or really being neurotic.  Then when I think she was viewed as being boring, suddenly the bad behavior starts.  

 

It's just hard for me to believe that the leg throwing woman is *really* the true Aviva and not an "I'm now addicted to celebrity so I'm going to pull out all the stops to stay on this show."

I don't think any of the HW or accompanying characters can be judged accurately by a few scenes or episodes. It takes awhile. I also don't think that her real self and the drama she manufactures are mutually exclusive. In other words, her decision to throw the leg, her decision to invent "word on the street" gossip to impugne Carole's reputation, etc., etc. are part of her character. Carole said in an interview posted earlier that she went on the show with the intent to be as real as possible, and hoped for honest representation. She had the attitude of we're in this together with the other ladies, and she found out this was not how others felt. I'm sure she was talking about Aviva.

[ScoobieDoobs]

It's just hard for me to believe that the leg throwing woman is *really* the true Aviva and not an "I'm now addicted to celebrity so I'm going to pull out all the stops to stay on this show."

 

Very true, but I can't help thinking if she played it for laughs it woulda come off so much better.  But that's not Veevs.  It clearly ain't who she is.  She seems like a woman filled with anger, rage & bitterness, despite the lifetime of privilege & luxury.  A sense of humor seems to be sadly missing in this woman -- well, at least from what we've seen of her on show.  It's her seemingly non-stop intense anger that makes me nervous.  Honestly I just can't stand watching her.  It would make me extremely anxious to have to deal with her in real life & I'm a tough New Yorker, but Veevs makes me very, very nervous.  Still hoping they do get rid of her.

[sasha206]

I don't think any of the HW or accompanying characters can be judged accurately by a few scenes or episodes. It takes awhile. I also don't think that her real self and the drama she manufactures are mutually exclusive. In other words, her decision to throw the leg, her decision to invent "word on the street" gossip to impugne Carole's reputation, etc., etc. are part of her character. Carole said in an interview posted earlier that she went on the show with the intent to be as real as possible, and hoped for honest representation. She had the attitude of we're in this together with the other ladies, and she found out this was not how others felt. I'm sure she was talking about Aviva.

 

All good points.

 

I guess it just surprised me to watch the degradation of Aviva.  You expect them some assholian drama, but this is just too much.

[LotusFlower]

I guess it just surprised me to watch the degradation of Aviva.  You expect them some assholian drama, but this is just too much.

I would argue it was self-inflicted. That's why I don't feel any sympathy for her, and why I find her so represensible.