S01.E03: Wish You Were Here

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

 

Molly has to decide if she is going to reveal her pregnancy to John after he confronts her about her distant behavior. Meanwhile, John and Molly face parents who are suspicious of Ethan when he goes to school for the first time.

 

 

[bmoore4026]

Oooooo, they better not hurt Camryn Manheim!

Edited July 24, 2014 by bmoore4026

[ottoDbusdriver]

Time-delayed nanotech implanted you with a fertilized embryo from you and your husband while on a deep-space research mission.  Without telling you about it. And without your consent.  Sure it did.

 

And 'John Woods' is an anagram for gullible.

 

ETA: Did they pull a Sixth Sense in this episode ?  Was everything Marcus' brother touched the colour red ?  Wouldn't those 2 women behind Tim in that group shot be a little pissed that he stood right in front of them and completely blocked them in the shot ?

 

ETA2: Because it's Tim not Ian.

Edited July 24, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Enero]

I can't decide whether Ethan is a poor misguided robot that needs more human nurturing or if he's on the verge of being something very scary and very dangerous. Though his story is intriguing, I kind of feel like the storyline surrounding the research on a human robot needs to end. Right now, it's just not really that interesting.

 

Molly is still making foolish choices. Trusting anything Alan had to say was idiotic, but I'm glad she at least told John about the pregnancy. That scene between Goran and Halle was great. Actually, nearly all their scenes tonight worked well. They really seem to be finding their groove.

 

I never guessed that Tim wasn't actually there. Was that alien baby pulling a fast one? Or the company stirring thing up so that Molly would come in quietly?

 

Hope Sam makes it out of this alive. Why she didn't wait until she was at least safely out the building to call John was beyond me, but at least she got that text in to Molly.

[Sandman]

Well, that was creepy.

 

I'm starting think Julie's on the verge of becoming something scary and dangerous.

 

I thought the company must have arranged for Tim's furlough to persuade her to come in; I never guessed that he was hallucinatory. If he's a projection of the space baby, it would seem the aliens have advanced their grasp of human language significantly.

 

And where's Kryger?

Edited July 24, 2014 by Sandman

[mjc570]

If John is concerned about Ethan fitting in at school, dressing him in a bow tie (!) and sweater sure won' help.

[Rhetorica]

A few thoughts now, more later. 

Molly goes back to the company that she knows experimented on her? Not smart to say the least! 

Crap. I hope Dr. Sam's storyline isn't over. I want to see her as a badass. 

Good to see that Sarah from Eureka has a new job! 

[ottoDbusdriver]

I thought the company must have arranged for Tim's furlough to persuade her to come in; I never guessed that he was hallucinatory. If he's a projection of the space baby, it would seem the aliens a have advanced their grasp of human language significantly.

 

And are the Olympic rings that keep appearing on Molly's body real or hallucinations ?  When Molly saw them appear on her arm after Sam took the blood sample, it didn't even surprise her.  But when Evil Ron Butterfield saw them on her stomach, he seemed a little freaked.

 

And with regards to the alien's grasp of human language, they appeared to have graduated well beyond 'It's OK' and 'No'.

 

ETA:

Good to see that Sarah from Eureka has a new job!

 

Maybe Fargo will show up as a researcher for the Humanichs. :)

Edited July 24, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Rhetorica]

Well, that was creepy.

I'm starting think Julie's on the verge of becoming something scary and dangerous.

I thought the company must have arranged for Tim's furlough to persuade her to come in; I never guessed that he was hallucinatory. If he's a projection of the space baby, it would seem the aliens a have advanced their grasp of human language significantly.

And where's Kryger?

I agree with you on Julie. I wonder if she's the influence for Ethan's darker tendencies. What book was she reading to him? 

After the revel, I assumed Tim was sent by ISEA with the help from Hiroyuki, who is in contact with the aliens, to get Molly to headquarters. 

Kryger must have been drawn through the Olympic Rings.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

I agree with you on Julie. I wonder if she's the influence for Ethan's darker tendencies. What book was she reading to him?

 

The Velveteen Rabbit -- the story of a toy becoming real (not subtle at all in its implications in this show).  I guess they couldn't get the rights to Pinocchio.

[bagatelle]

I didn't like that the editors felt the need to do a flashback showing us how the brother was standing there, being photographed.  Or at least, in Molly's mind, he was. We know that.  We saw him standing beside her.  I hate being spoon fed.

 

And since i'm complaining, it was unnecessary to have the lights go out so John could go to his workshop and have a discussion with the toaster, who followed him there.  What was the point of having the lights go out anyway?  So unnecessary.

[Arynm]

Julie was reading the Velveteen Rabbit to Ethan. I have no idea what that means, I haven't read it in years. They better not kill Sam! She is in the running for my favorite character. The kid is very scary, the thing with the bird it serial killer 101, it all starts with animals.

Love the relationship between Halle and Goran, they feel very real to me.

[ottoDbusdriver]

And since i'm complaining, it was unnecessary to have the lights go out so John could go to his workshop and have a discussion with the toaster, who followed him there.  What was the point of having the lights go out anyway?  So unnecessary.

 

Once they start calling Ethan a toaster, all I could think of was BSG.  The writers should have picked another appliance nickname for Ethan.

[Sandman]

You mean like SlapChop? The Magic Bullet? Vitamix? CuisinArtie?

[Rhetorica]

The Velveteen Rabbit -- the story of a toy becoming real (not subtle at all in its implications in this show). I guess they couldn't get the rights to Pinocchio.

Oh, that's it! I knew it had to parallel what might happen to Ethan. And the rabbit becomes real due to the love of a boy and the magic of the Nursery Fairy. So are the aliens the fairy then...

[sjohnson]

Pinocchio is public domain, but dodging the obvious was good. Also good, practically worth the price of admission: "the dance of my ancestors." 

 

Woods is an extremely strong-minded man. Cheating was an impossibility but not dithering over her explanation at all was very sharp. 

 

The robot story is more effective for me than the conspiracy storyline. The circle diagram is not just implausible but reminds me only of the triskelion from Threshold. Using a time honored trope is one thing, that's commentary or hommage or maybe even tweaking the formula,  but this has a specificity that for me is too derivative.

[Sandman]

Not dithering over Molly's explanation, or not questioning it at all? That nanotech nonsense made them both seem s a little credulous, if you ask me.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Sandman

[ottoDbusdriver]

You mean like SlapChop? The Magic Bullet? Vitamix? CuisinArtie?

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a microwave, since microwaves will probably be around well into the near future, but those will do just as well.

 

ETA:

The circle diagram is not just implausible but reminds me only of the triskelion from Threshold.

 

Nice call @sjohnson --  the show where the aliens had triple helix DNA.

Edited July 24, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Actionmage]

Kryger must have been drawn through the Olympic Rings.

 

No, the blue aliens from Marvel can now enter the Extantverse! (The circles look exactly like the circles Agent Coulson was drawing in a trance over on ABC and Agents of SHIELD!)

 

I wrote in my notes," I hope Kryger moved. If not, disappointed and hacked @Molly."  Hopefully, he played the odds that Molly'd spill and left for an unknown location  as soon as Molly was out of sight. If he was nabbed by Evil Ron Butterworth, then I will be majorly hacked at Molly for getting him (probably) quarantined. Unless ... he's a figment of Molly's imagination as well, a la Tim! DundunDUN!

I'm starting think Julie's on the verge of becoming something scary and dangerous.

 

 

Starting?! The scene last week between Molly and Julie was creepy, in that Molly even had to assert that she was the wife and mother, no matter how subtly.  And yes, The Velveteen Rabbit, not Hop On Pop or a Berenstein Bears or  Amelia Bedelia (aging myself)? Something a bit more fun and not so flipping obvious? That story wouldn't make a kid nervous about receiving love, not at all! At least Amelia Bedelia would have explained some social interactions to Ethan better?

 

If John is concerned about Ethan fitting in at school, dressing him in a bow tie (!) and sweater sure won' help.

 

I think the bow tie was just for the Belated Birthday Party. If not? Yeah, bow ties are cool...for Time Lords, John.  Speaking of the party, did no one think that Ethan no sharing in the video was off? Surely it was for everyone to share with Molly- including her son! But it's totes cool, folks! Julie "Fatal Attraction" Gelineau is reading to her life's work ( and boss' five year old son!) a very on-the-nose bedtime story about being thrown away when you are perceived to be too old or obsolete. No problems there, right John?

 

I join in the chorus of "Sam had best be safe!" Camryn is a piece of work on Person of Interest, so I'd like her to be softer on this show. ( Not unable to kick ass, but not being exactly like Ma'am.) More in a bit. 

[Jordan27]

Best episode so far.  Halle and Goran did an outstanding job.

 

The kid is creeping me out.  Reminds of the kid from the Shining.

[Sandman]

And yes, The Velveteen Rabbit, not Hop On Pop or a Berenstein Bears or  Amelia Bedelia (aging myself)? Something a bit more fun and not so flipping obvious? That story wouldn't make a kid nervous about receiving love, not at all! At least Amelia Bedelia would have explained some social interactions to Ethan better?

 

Personally, I would have liked it if the favoured book had been a Richard Scarry book, like What Do People Do All Day? Lots of social interaction, everyone's a different species but they all get along -- it's perfectly on message! Besides, I'm sure Ethan needs to know what the hell the people in his family do all day!

Edited July 24, 2014 by Sandman

[shapeshifter]

Speaking of the party, did no one think that Ethan no sharing in the video was off? Surely it was for everyone to share with Molly- including her son! But it's totes cool, folks! Julie "Fatal Attraction" Gelineau is reading to her life's work ( and boss' five year old son!) a very on-the-nose bedtime story about being thrown away when you are perceived to be too old or obsolete.

I was waiting for the Where Is Ethan? moment that never came. Then I was expecting it to be All Molly's Fault that Ethan missed it.

They should have reshot the scene where Molly gets up to make the speech and turns her back to the video as the balloons and Happy Birthday appear. Or are we to assume she's already seen it?

The one thing I think they're doing really well is keeping their cards close to the vest regarding who is and who is not a sociopath, brain damaged, or plain evil. Any one of them could go either way. Ethan, for example, didn't kill the bird this time; maybe he's learning about empathy Very Slowly rather than how to be a serial killer?

[thuganomics85]

Honestly, I was somewhat pleasantly surprised over some of the directions the show has went.  I figured they were going to drag out Molly being manipulated by Alan and the organization longer, but the family already being on the run from them, and it being out in the open, is a refreshing change.  While John accepted the pregnancy explanation a bit too easily, I'm glad that's also out in the open, and he didn't automatically assume she cheated somehow.  But, I do hope both Molly and John don't just accept what Alan said at face value, and start trying to figure out what in the hell is going on.

 

Of course, it does look like Sam ended up being collateral damage, and has been captured.  But I'm cool with it, if we get some awesome scenes of her being a badass and facing off against Alan.  Camryn Manheim and Michael O'Neill should be great together.

 

Have to agree that Julie is kind of scaring me.  I'm not sure what her deal is.  It sounds like she almost considers herself Ethan's true mother or something.  It makes me wonder what is going on with her and the new female robot she was playing games with.  Either way, if I were Molly, I would never be alone in a room with her.

 

I wonder where Kryger was.  I'm guessing Yasumoto was off somewhere, chilling like only Hiroyuki Sanada characters' can.  By that, I mean he's probably doing something very mysterious and shady.

[TomGirl]

Those Olympic Rings? I have long, dark curly hair and I have to tell you, that design looks just like the floor of my shower after I shampoo. Sorry if that's TMI.

[random chance]

Heh when I first glanced at them I thought they were hair.

I love that it's a world where time-release nanobots can impregnate someone in space, but when the lights go out they still grab some candles.

[Actionmage]

Okay, impressions of the episode--

 

*Okay, I give! ::taps out:: You are hurting my feelings with the muted/pastel neutrals!

*In Molly's Am flashback: No, John, it's not cool to try Ethan out for a couple of years then try to find him another family! I get you are trying to be supportive of Molly, but that whole option-palooza? The opposite of helpful.

*Are we going to nickname him Ethan Birdsbane? He has some thing with birds and it's interesting, yet creepy.  I am starting to lean  on the "didn't kill the black bird in the park."

* "Damn, Alan, with friends like you, man..." (from my notes)

*I missed the scene with Lucy, but dang her face is creepy. If I was Molly, no more trips to the lab unless strictly needed.

*"It's been sterilized." I'm sure, CreepyDude!

* Hey, Ethan, sloppy joes are tasty, give them a chance. I was glad that he made a friend. I hope her dad was just a plot point. We have Mrs. Dodds for the anti-Ethan/Humanechs side.

*I noticed what Charlie was doing and grinned, but " the dance of my ancestors"  made me chuckle and mentally tsk Charlie. I'm glad Charlie is around Ethan and Ethan clearly is fond of Charlie. I hope Charlie stays safe around Julie.

*Okay, Julie needs to back off some because she isn't the lead on the project and she isn't the one raising the boy, no matter where Molly was for thirteen months.

* John: "You okay?"  Molly:" No."  The most honest exchange, on the show, between the two of them. At least it was only three episodes in; I genuinely thought it was episode 4  at least.

*If trusting John is flipping out over you going into quarantine, think a couple of more times, Molly!

*Alan is overseeing, in various capacities (?), twenty (20!) space missions? Even in the future, even footed by private business, is that possible and or needed? 20 at roughly the same time?

*When Molly was running away from Alan, I kept flashing back to the movie trailer for The Rich Man's Wife. ( I'm sorry, Halle, truly!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGCcCuY00OE (Yes, my mind is strange.)

 

Preview: Yay! Louis Gossett, Jr.!

[angelita100]

I am watching this show for Goran but tonight was the first night that I found him "hot."  It was also the first time i saw chemistry between him and Molly and began rooting for them as a family.  I was so happy she told him the truth. I thought that would drag out for weeks.  All in all a great episode. I'm all in.

[Blue Plastic]

I thought the company must have arranged for Tim's furlough to persuade her to come in; I never guessed that he was hallucinatory. If he's a projection of the space baby, it would seem the aliens a have advanced their grasp of human language significantly.

 

And where's Kryger?

I kind of wondered about Tim when she went outside and met him on the porch.  He didn't just knock on the door and come inside like a normal person.  I thought he might be either a hallucination or someone sent to kidnap her.  But then he did come inside so I relaxed.  They tricked me!

 

Didn't they show a scene with Kryger in last week's previews?  Yet this week he was nowhere to be seen, just the weird circles in his trailer.  Molly's Not!iPhone looks like a miniature plastic cutting board.

 

Molly is still making foolish choices. Trusting anything Alan had to say was idiotic, but I'm glad she at least told John about the pregnancy. That scene between Goran and Halle was great. Actually, nearly all their scenes tonight worked well. They really seem to be finding their groove.

 

Hope Sam makes it out of this alive. Why she didn't wait until she was at least safely out the building to call John was beyond me, but at least she got that text in to Molly.

This was the first time that I bought Molly and John are a couple.  The actors seem to have scraped some chemistry together finally, plus the pregnancy no longer being a secret allows the characters to now be on the same page and working together against all the shit that is going down.

 

Sam should totally have gotten the hell out of there.  I hope she lives!

 

I agree with you on Julie. I wonder if she's the influence for Ethan's darker tendencies.

It's obvious she feels she is his real mother.  Although I'm concerned about what she may end up doing, John should have considered her feelings.  He just took Damian...er the toaster...er Ethan away from her and she had obviously grown attached.  That robot she was playing a game with looked terrible.  Why did the same company that can supposedly make Ethan look so realistic take this robot and stick wax lips from last Halloween on it?

 

I'm hoping they're going to say that Ethan did not kill the first bird and felt sorry for it, so he trapped tonight's bird so he could learn more about them and heal them or prevent them from dying?  Maybe he is worried because he knows the people around him will die whereas he could live forever if he has proper maintenance.

[Rhetorica]

Ethan may not have killed the first bird. They're done a good job of presenting characters ambiguously. Last week I thought for sure Dr. Sam was in on the plot. She may still be, or she may be a victim. I like shows where I don't know what's coming and have mysteries to solve that aren't obvious.

[JLVerde]

 

I love that it's a world where time-release nanobots can impregnate someone in space, but when the lights go out they still grab some candles.

 

I love that, too.  And they still use cheap dollar store brooms to sweep up the dust that they put in their high tech compactors then take out to the funky trash at the curb.  REALLY?  Not even a Swifter?  

 

Ethan looks like how I imagine Andy Richter looked as a child.  Ok, maybe Andy Richter didn't have that hint of "I'll trap you under a cardboard box and let you die a slow death" but. . .that round little face is adorable (and so is Andy Richter).

 

(oh and they still use cardboard)

 

Julie was stealing the show for me.  Her creepy is delicious.  But I can't help thinking of her as Mom (from Futurama).  Maybe if she'd just wear her hair up in a bun. . . 

 

Speaking of creepy, the faceless robot was creepy to the max.  

 

This show has me all conflicted now.  I'm loving the robot storyline which annoys me.  I wanted to love the alien baby storyline (hello! alien freaking baby!) but it's just so final seasons of X-Files that I'm suffering from major meh flare up.  I love a good conspiracy as much as the next gal but this one is just missing something.  I think it's because we see both sides of it all the time, so it's less spooky.  It would have been better if we didn't see (the boss guy--what's his name?) telling someone he was going to trick Molly.  Just have him show up and then we can wonder if he's doing something nefarious or if he just might be doing a double trick-a-roo and going to screw over the folks in the conspiracy.  Part of me hopes they do pull that (that Boss is actually a good guy) but even if they do it still won't work quite right because the set up is so weak.

 

Funniest moment of the night?  When the big black SUV is following Molly and we're all "oh noes!" only to find out it's the lackey guy returning her GPS retainer.  Holy crap!  That's totally what my parents needed for me when I was a teen.  I never would have lost a retainer.  Hmmm, maybe I'm on to some kind of business here.  Retainer Guards?  No, that's not quite the right name.  I need to think on this a bit.

 

I'm giving this show a few more episodes before I decide to cut it loose or not.  I really like the premise and Halle is giving some decent acting (she does WTF face and severe abdominal distress very well) and Luca is still easy on the eyes (yes, he'll always be Luca to me--even my spouse, who never liked ER, refers to him as Luca).

[Neurochick]

 

Have to agree that Julie is kind of scaring me.  I'm not sure what her deal is.  It sounds like she almost considers herself Ethan's true mother or something.  It makes me wonder what is going on with her and the new female robot she was playing games with.  Either way, if I were Molly, I would never be alone in a room with her.

 

I can't stand Julie.  To me she comes off very entitled.  I think she wants to be Ethan's mother, but I think she also wants to be John's wife.  Maybe what happened was that she bonded with Ethan and John while Molly was away and resents being pushed aside.  On the other hand, WTF is wrong with her, I mean you can't compete with Halle fucking Berry, that woman's 48 and she looks like THAT.  Julie, step the fuck aside. 

[seacliffsal]

Is it because they are scientists that they don't have a lot of common sense (i.e. super smart but without common sense)?  Because they all seem too stupid to live.  Sam, when there's a secret agent telling you there's a gas leak and he is standing IN THE AREA of the gas leak without a mask?  Time to go...

 

Molly, really?  You believe the director when he says he didn't know about a covert activity in his own company and that he had IGNORED previous concerns and suspicions?  Don't get in the car.  Also, if Molly figured out that she needed to get rid of the retainer tracker, why wasn't she concerned about being followed to the trailer?  And, whatever the name is of the other astronaut, way to hide out in plain site by a busy highway.  At least park in a trailer park where it would fit in and not draw attention.

 

Halle Berry's acting kind of takes me out of the storyline.  While she's good at times, other times I'm like 'really, an oscar winner?'

[Sandman]

*Alan is overseeing, in various capacities (?), twenty (20!) space missions? Even in the future, even footed by private business, is that possible and or needed? 20 at roughly the same time?

 

Yeah -- who does he think he is, Richard Branson?

 

Charlie is the least creepy person on the whole show. I hope his fondness for Ethan remains genuine. (I did notice that when Ethan was doing "the dance of [his] ancestors," on the bookshelf behind him was displayed very prominently the spine of a big red book entitled "GENESIS." Very cute, show.)

 

A couple things that bugged me: If Molly got rid of her monitor retainer, what was telling her to slow down on her jog? And if Sam took such pains to get Molly an ultrasound, why didn't she erase the file in the veterinary clinic? What was point of it if Creepy Retainer Dude (See what I did there?) was just going to open the ultrasound browser history?

Edited July 24, 2014 by Sandman

[jah1986]

Well it is getting better each week.  Julie is getting on my nerves. Neurochick is right, she comes off very entitled. But I think she thinks of Ethan more as her work than as a human child.  I get the feeling she's "raising" the female 'bot to be her answer to Ethan.  She's already smarter, right? She could be trouble in the future, but please put a face on her.

 

I too thought Tim was sent by the Company to kidnap Molly quietly. When he came in the house I was surprised that John didn't bat an eyelash that dead boyfriend's brother was at the party. But I didn't see him being a hallucination.

 

I'm not ready to lose Sam yet.

 

Halle Berry running just takes me out of the scene, she looks so awkward.

 

I'm in for next week.

[Straycat80]

I forget Ethan is a robot sometimes. In the scene before he goes outside to capture the bird he was eating a sandwich. I never heard of a robot eating food in other robot shows. Did they build him with a human digestive tract?

[random chance]

Nice catch, I wonder if that was a screwup or if the robot eats food. And as nonsensical as it seems to create a way for a robot to eat, I can see why they would - because it would make people more comfortable with the robot. People tend to create a stink if you're not eating when they do, as anyone who has ever been on a diet can tell you.

[shrewd.buddha]

Things seems to be progressing ... slowly ... and in mostly predictable ways. Halle seems more natural in her party dress than a space suit.

 

The whole robot child concept just doesn't work for me, and it's making the show fail for me. Let me count the ways:

1. Smell, taste, and touch are a big part of a child's development. But those things would be a major programming effort.
2. Children sweat, get tired, get sick, and poop. Again, this would be very complicated to duplicate in any way.
3. A.I.'s don't forget things. Children do. You would have to dumb-down a child robot to make it seem more human.
4. Making a robot weight less than 60 lbs, and less strong than it could be -- again, way too complicated.
5. Some kids are intellectual or physical prodigies - but Ethan cannot be -- because he's programmed to be ordinary.

 

Ethan's character would work if he were some type of genetic hybrid. But as it is, every. single. conceivable. aspect. of his behavior is part of a very complicated mechanical and computer program.  

 

It sort of sad that Halle's character is supposed be to an astronaut with with enough technical skills to handle a 13 month solo space mission. But she is not applying any of those problem solving skills to her current dilemma. She just runs, cries, shouts, and denies things are happening...
I did like Halle's mobile phone, tho.

Edited July 24, 2014 by shrewd.buddha

[ottoDbusdriver]

Is "work on the boats" a euphemism for something in the future ?  Because that just seems such an intentionally vague description for what Tim does for a living.

 

Is he in the Navy ?  A fisherman ?  A Freighter Captain ?

[Latverian Diplomat]

It makes me wonder what is going on with her and the new female robot she was playing games with.  

I guess I'm not seeing Julie as the problem. I agree with her that elementary school is not a great environment for an experimental AI. (Of course, they would never get consent to do that anyway, but this show doesn't seem to understand how science works--a single objecting parent would sink the idea well in advance). John Woods is pushing things too fast and losing his objectivity.

 

I though that Lucy, the female robot who's developing faster than Ethan did will be used for foreshadowing. I think Lucy's competitive side will take a dark turn that should send up a red flag about Ethan.

[beedub]

Sure, it's not all logical, rational or scientifically accurate, but there's something oddly compelling about this show. For me, the most incredible aspect of the show is that someone as brilliant yet consummately Wonderful as John can actually exist.

 

Things seems to be progressing ... slowly ...

 

Funny, I was going to say I like how quickly things are moving along. We've already found out that Astronaut Miss Halle Berry is the subject of a conspiracy, which has already moved into the discovery and flight phase, in just three episodes. We haven't been strung along forever with Kryder as the mystery-man-in-the-shadows, when they could have kept him "in the dark" for half the season. In general, there does seem to some momentum to the proceedings.
 

The whole robot child concept just doesn't work for me

 

You make some good, solid and reasonable points. In fact, I wondered myself why a robot child would need to, or have the ability to, sleep at night. But I think we're just meant to swallow some of those contradictions and accept the technology as fact, and for what it is, which is a platform for the ethical concerns it brings up. As long as it serves its purpose I can go along with it. Given the whole Extant/Extinct theme of the show, it should soon be clear (if it isn't already) how Humanechs figure into the imperilled future of humanity.
 

Is "work on the boats" a euphemism for something in the future ?  Because that just seems such an intentionally vague description for what Tim does for a living.

 

Is he in the Navy ?  A fisherman ?  A Freighter Captain ?

 

Runs the boat ride at the Kiddie Fun Fair?

[Rhetorica]

Sure, it's not all logical, rational or scientifically accurate, but there's something oddly compelling about this show. For me, the most incredible aspect of the show is that someone as brilliant yet consummately Wonderful as John can actually exist.

Perhaps he's the original AI...

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Have to agree that Julie is kind of scaring me.  I'm not sure what her deal is.  It sounds like she almost considers herself Ethan's true mother or something.  It makes me wonder what is going on with her and the new female robot she was playing games with.  Either way, if I were Molly, I would never be alone in a room with her.

 

My hypothesis? Something will happen that results in Julie's death/damage to her body and she somehow transfers her consciousness into the female robot, but only after becoming very angry at the family over.... something (being rejected, etc.)

 

 

I love that it's a world where time-release nanobots can impregnate someone in space, but when the lights go out they still grab some candles.

 

I have to admit I totally LOL over this. I mean burning stuff will probably never go out of style, but doesn't anybody have a flashlight... I tell ya, I have one or two flashlights but not a dozen big candles! Some Yankee Candles yes, but...

 

As far as "why build a child robot". I think there is something about the design of their AI that requires some sort of organic "learning" process. Like there is underlying programming that allows them to think/learn like a human, but doesn't automatically program all those experiences/knowledge/responses in. The AI knows "how to learn" but doesn't already "know" everything there is to know. So they let it experience a "childhood" to acquire knowledge and social skills like a human being would, in order to make them more human. Making them appear like a child allows them to be treated more normally by other humans which aids in the learning process. If they were obviously machines, they wouldn't get the same experience. I think the goal isn't so much to produce some super-robot as it is to basically duplicate a human with an inorganic body.

[bluebonnet]

 I'm struggling to make sense of the power outage.  Apparently it's a common problem as someone in the background mentioned it being the 3rd time that week or month.  The way Molly and John reacted (generator, candles) further indicated this is just something that happens even without the influence of a storm interfering with the power grid.  What is this about?  How is electricity supplied?  Is this to indicate that their rate of gadget tech is far outpacing advancements in creating the power to supply juice to these gadgets?  Sort of like ignoring the the faults in the foundation and moving quickly into putting up the walls.  It just seems like this frequent grid failure is meant to tell us something about the story but I can't quite figure out what. 

[sjohnson]

 

1. Smell, taste, and touch are a big part of a child's development. But those things would be a major programming effort.

2. Children sweat, get tired, get sick, and poop. Again, this would be very complicated to duplicate in any way.

3. A.I.'s don't forget things. Children do. You would have to dumb-down a child robot to make it seem more human.

4. Making a robot weight less than 60 lbs, and less strong than it could be -- again, way too complicated.

5. Some kids are intellectual or physical prodigies - but Ethan cannot be -- because he's programmed to be ordinary.

 

 

This is a really good list of objections, so I hope no one minds if I comment. Not to rebut, explain why the objection doesn't hit the mark for me.

1. Any independently moving robot handling a variety of objects will have to have a sense of touch somehow, no matter how difficult the programming is. The objection is a powerful indicator there as of now is now way to have any robots, not just an Ethan. No movie robots are believable. For me, once I suspend disbelief to accept Ethan moves like a human being, without snapping pencils or bruising every person he touches, I can also accept that he can have chemical sensors., especially since that is much less of an engineering challenge than lining the entire surface with sensors!

 

2. How important are these things in interacting with people, the goal of the humanics project? I don't think they are necessary nor do I think that Ethan necessarily does sweat or get sick. If he eats and drinks, he must get rid of the stuff somehow, and eating and drinking are a very important part of social interaction, unlike using the restroom. (No jokes about how social your RR is at your house, pretty please with sugar on top?) Whether Ethan has a kind of furnace burning the food or just a compactor is not real relevant at this point, though I will note they don't seem to worry about recharging him. I can suspend disbelief with a little effort.

 

3. Strictly speaking we have no AI, so it's a little premature to insist what kind of thinking it has to do. But the expressed point of the humanics project is to create a robot AI that connects with humans. The project is doing this by programming the AI the same way nature "programs" human intelligence, by very long experience. A mature Ethan might indeed have to be dumbed down to act exactly like a human but at this point, he's being programmed by the experiences of his "childhood." The AI is not finished. Further, and even more important to me, what kind of AI is the project trying to create? One that has a preprogrammed set of problems solving routines and heuristics? Or one that can engage in creative thinking? At this point, we don't really know how to program original thinking, particularly in the area of problem selection. The only learning systems we have that I know of are more or less sophisticated versions of trial and error (more sophisticated seem to use neural networks but I'm not expert.) I never got into Next Generation because I couldn't understand why Data would want to be stupid like a human. But Ethan's makers want him to be smart like a human so he can relate better. The objection is a sound one, but I'm not sure it applies to this show instead of others.

 

4. Why would robots have superstrength? Why would they be indestructible? I know that the default in pretty much all previous robot shows and movies (except possibly Runaway?) have automatically assumed that the terminators for example can hit wall, and the wall breaks instead of their steel fists. But is it really technologically justified. Why should a human sized arm be able to lift the same load as a fork lift large enough for a human to ride? I think the show here has improved on robot depiction, not made an error. 

 

5. Another sound objection to robots in general. But I don't think it applies to this show, given the purpose of the humanics project. 

[Sandman]

I recall the theme of "replicating the human/organic learning process as closely as possible" being central to "John Woods"' presentation to the board in the first episode. I would argue that the show is hitting the note that Ethan (and Lucy the Disembodied Head, presumably) needs to learn in human-like ways pretty hard in the episodes since. The idea seems to be to make artificial intelligence more human-like by giving it as much of a parallel experience as possible. I don't doubt that replicating organic modes of being and interacting with the world would be insanely complicated; but then I'm not entirely convinced that "John Woods" (or Julie) is entirely sane.

 

sjohnson, I like your take on the "Why?" of this show's approach to artificial life forms; and I appreciate the conversation that you and Shrewd.Buddha are having in that regard. The only comment I can add would be that I don't think Data ever wished to be stupid like a human. I think he wanted to be less lonely (leaving aside the "real boy" twee-ness that Spiner's portrayal didn't entirely avoid). 

Edited July 24, 2014 by Sandman

[Neurochick]

It sort of sad that Halle's character is supposed be to an astronaut with with enough technical skills to handle a 13 month solo space mission. But she is not applying any of those problem solving skills to her current dilemma. She just runs, cries, shouts, and denies things are happening...

 

 

This part of the show is believable.  I have known very intelligent people, like surgeons, who do the dumbest things, people with zero common sense and social skills.  So that part of the show doesn't surprise me at all.

[bluebonnet]

I agree.  I mean, this is something that just doesn't happen.  People don't get pregnant when they are alone for thirteen months in space.  It's impossible to begin to even accept that this is real.  On top of that, there are the hallucinations and it's understandable why someone would want to do anything to not face that especially considering her job and the baby problem she's working through.  

[Rhetorica]

I'm struggling to make sense of the power outage. Apparently it's a common problem as someone in the background mentioned it being the 3rd time that week or month. The way Molly and John reacted (generator, candles) further indicated this is just something that happens even without the influence of a storm interfering with the power grid. What is this about? How is electricity supplied? Is this to indicate that their rate of gadget tech is far outpacing advancements in creating the power to supply juice to these gadgets? Sort of like ignoring the the faults in the foundation and moving quickly into putting up the walls. It just seems like this frequent grid failure is meant to tell us something about the story but I can't quite figure out what.

Good catch bluebonnet. I missed that this was a recurrence. Perhaps the lack of a grid will help in some way to combat the aliens like rain did with H. G. Wells Martians. 

[Andromeda]

Like shrewd.buddha, I also am struggling with the robot boy concept. What's the point? You telling me there are no parentless children who need adopting in this age? Robots don't forget, so yeah, the kid would have to be dumbed down to replicate a human child. The creepy girl-bot head in the lab seemed to be playing some kind of memorization/strategy game, like concentration. Memorization is like the #1 task that computers are perfect at. Better than people. After a few minutes spent "learning" the game, the bot should surpass any human 100% of the time, which is not childlike. (Man, that girlbot head was creepy!!)

 

I was also deeply offended on Mollie's behalf when her husband's reaction to them losing a child was "Here, take my science experiment and mother it." YUCK. What woman would take that sitting down? Like bot-boy and a human infant borne from your body are comparable in any way!

 

I do appreciate the idea that they're really creating a humanist-type AI robot, not a walking, talking calculator, but I also question WHY. For instance, I could see it being a service-bot type of thing, like a more human version of a museum docent, more realistic than the one in the last episode (and with the memory of a computer, able to share information on any topic when asked -- which humans CAN'T do). I mostly have difficulty with the need for a robot child, when creating children is something humans CAN do.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Andromeda

[sjohnson]

I thought Mollie's fertilization had failed, so there would be no baby. 

 

I don't know why they didn't adopt a human child. But Ethan was not made to be adopted by childless parents. Childless parents were chosen to raise Ethan because they had a reason to want a "child," even one with developmental difficulties.

 

In human beings, it may be the case that creative thinking involves blending memories. In which case, a robot intended to connect with people, that thinks like people so he or she or it can connect with people, would need to have a human associative memory instead of a computer's digital memory.