S02.E03: Theft

[Cranberry]

Quote

Lyra ignores the alethiometer's advice leading to dangerous consequences.

Originally aired: November 22, 2020 (on BBC One; Nov. 30 on HBO)

[Quark]

Another great episode. That scene between Mrs Coulter and Lee Scoresby was phenomenal. Such great acting.

[Capricasix]

I find it hilarious (although I don’t know why) that Lord Boreal drives a Tesla 😄

Looking forward to next week - hopefully Will finally gets the knife!

I really like Mary Malone; also, interesting to see how they incorporated the knife and the Cave into the opening credits.

[mrspidey]

16 hours ago, Capricasix said:

I find it hilarious (although I don’t know why) that Lord Boreal drives a Tesla 😄

 

Maybe he doesn't trust combustion engines because all the cars on his world seem to be electrical. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

21 hours ago, Quark said:

Another great episode. That scene between Mrs Coulter and Lee Scoresby was phenomenal. Such great acting.

It's incredible how well Ruth Wilson can do rage just simmering below the surface. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved how Lee read her like a book. Normally I'd say that if you can withstand pain and torture, it's best to keep that under your hat but it takes one to know one.

I gasped when Lyra discovered the alethiometer was missing. Girl, you had one job!

Lyra and Will both seemed a bit careless about going through that portal. I was expecting to see Lyanna Mormont pop out of it next.

[aghst]

As important as the alethiometer is, I have a feeling this knife is even more important since it's featured in the opening credits so much.

Unbeknownst to Mary Malone it looks like the Cave may have its own oracular powers.

Boreal crosses worlds but he doesn't stop in Cittigazze himself?  He didn't refer to it by name but he knew the city.

Never watched Paddington Bear.  Lyra seemed unimpressed though Pan may have been curious.  But she was impressed by the popcorn, so disgusting yet she could not stop eating it.

On 11/23/2020 at 10:19 AM, mrspidey said:

Maybe he doesn't trust combustion engines because all the cars on his world seem to be electrical. 

 

Is that the case though?  I don't remember cars in that world except maybe when Lyra went with Coulter to her high rise apt., which kind of looked Art Deco-ish.

But the airships and the boats looked like something out of steampunk.

It seems no computers or electronics of any kind, no aircraft capable of supersonic speed.  When they went on the bombing run of the witches' lair, they were dropping drums manually, rather than like cruise missiles.

So for Boreal, something like a Bentley may be more reminiscent of home, so mechanical and Old World, hand-built goodness.

Then again, the gull wings of the Tesla made it seem like it swallowed in Lyra and then disgorged her back out.

Edited December 1, 2020 by aghst

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Is that the case though?  I don't remember cars in that world except maybe when Lyra went with Coulter to her high rise apt., which kind of looked Art Deco-ish.

But the airships and the boats looked like something out of steampunk.

It seems no computers or electronics of any kind, no aircraft capable of supersonic speed.  When they went on the bombing run of the witches' lair, they were dropping drums manually, rather than like cruise missiles.

So for Boreal, something like a Bentley may be more reminiscent of home, so mechanical and Old World, hand-built goodness.

Then again, the gull wings of the Tesla made it seem like it swallowed in Lyra and then disgorged her back out.

When Lyra first arrived in Will's world and almost got run over, she said that cars don't go that fast in her world. So whatever they run on, they certainly can't move at any real speed.

[Valerie]

I never thought I'd say this, but I prefer Lin as Lee than as Hamilton. I was wholly captivated during that scene with Mrs Coulter.

[Jodithgrace]

Far more impressive than Lyra's alethiometer is Will's self charging cell phone. Where can I get one of those?

Something I find interesting: Jasper Fford has a series of novels featuring Thursday Next. They also take place in an alternate universe.  In that universe people also use zeppelins and airships, instead of planes and jets. Maybe it's a British thing? Not having experienced the Hindenburg explosion directly like the US, they are more nostalgic for that type of travel? I just know that in the US, the whole zeppelin craze died pretty quickly after the Hindenburg. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Jodithgrace

[Tachi Rocinante]

Just now, Jodithgrace said:

Far more impressive than Lyra's alethiometer is Will's self charging cell phone. Where can I get one of those?

Portable charger maybe? He would still need to charge that though.

Good episode, a bit of filler though.  I like that Lyra got tripped up during the questioning, it makes her more believable.

[tennisgurl]

36 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

They also take place in an alternate universe.  In that universe people also use zeppelins and airships, instead of planes and jets.

That's something of a fantasy/alternate universe trope in general, a world with zeppelins instead of or next to planes, its a good easy way to establish that this isn't the world that we (or someone from a different world entering a new one) are used to and quickly gives the world an otherworldly kind of vibe, especially if its a retro style universe. Interestingly, the books are usually seen as being very Steampunk in aesthetics, which is very Victorian era inspired, while the show, possibly inspired by the presence of zeppelins, is more of a Dieselpunk style art deco early to mid 20th century inspired world, albeit with a lot of Victorian era stuff too. Zeppelins are really more 1930s anyway, so it lines up pretty well. 

This season has been great so far, I wasn't sure about them going back and fourth from our world to Lyra's so often, but its really working for me. The scene between Lee and Mrs. Coulter was absolutely electric, Lee really had her number right away. Also loved Lee's very weirded out reactions to the guy living alone in the observatory looking place, even though it took a bad turn quickly. 

Great seeing Iorek again, even if it was just for one scene. They are really upping their budget in general this season with more effects with the witches and more locations and more visible daemons in crowd shots. 

[Enigma X]

Minority opinion that I have felt since season one, I am not impressed nor routing for Mrs. Coulter and am not impressed by Rachel Wilson. She does silent rage well enough, but I saw her in Luther (hated her there) she was very one-note for me, and she is fairly one-note here. I am not umimpressed either. I am just saying.

[iMonrey]

I think Rachel Wilson is fine but the character itself is something of an enigma, speaking as one who never read the books. 

So when the orange monkey attacked the guard's snake daemon was the guard killed or just knocked out? Later they showed the monkey dropping the snake on the floor but we didn't see it disappear.

[AnimeMania]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think Rachel Wilson is fine but the character itself is something of an enigma, speaking as one who never read the books. 

So when the orange monkey attacked the guard's snake daemon was the guard killed or just knocked out? Later they showed the monkey dropping the snake on the floor but we didn't see it disappear.

I figured he was just knocked out since the snake didn't disappear.

I was wondering if Lee Scoresby had shot the man in his Lemur, would the man have died? Would the police have any proof that Lee killed him. Would they even know how the man died?

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

I figured he was just knocked out since the snake didn't disappear.

I was wondering if Lee Scoresby had shot the man in his Lemur, would the man have died? Would the police have any proof that Lee killed him. Would they even know how the man died?

We've seen previously that if the daemon is killed, the human also dies with them - that woman whose name I forget, whose butterfly got crushed, and she just stopped breathing on the spot. So if the daemon had been shot dead, the man would have died with it, but whether that could be traced back to a cause of death and from there to the killer is not clear.

If it can't be...flipping heck, talk about the perfect murder, homicide investigation must be an absolute bitch!

[iMonrey]

Quote

If it can't be...flipping heck, talk about the perfect murder, homicide investigation must be an absolute bitch!

That's why there's no Dateline in Lyra's world.

[fredfreddy44]

What was written in the note that Mrs. Coulter received near the end of the episode?  I could not make it out.

[Cranberry]

This episode was so good! I liked season one of this show a lot, but season two is even better. It's been expanding on the characters and the world in ways the books couldn't (due to being told from Lyra and Will's perspectives), and as someone who's read the books more than once, it's great to have things be new to me. The dialogue has been better than season one's, too. That interrogation scene between Scoresby and Coulter was excellent. And Marisa letting her daemon comfort her in some small way afterward... that was the perfect way to show how much it got to her.

@fredfreddy44 The note said, "M. Coulter, I know where she is. -Boreal"

[Quickbeam]

Dafne Keen (Lyra) has certainly grown up. She looks so mature now, not girl-ish. 

[Lady S.]

On 12/1/2020 at 1:29 AM, aghst said:

Boreal crosses worlds but he doesn't stop in Cittigazze himself?  He didn't refer to it by name but he knew the city.

Well, we've been told the place is dangerous for grown-ups, and clearly he knew he needed kids to do the hard work here or else he would've already gotten the knife himself. Maybe he went there once and had to quickly run away from the spectres. 

[Tachi Rocinante]

2 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

Dafne Keen (Lyra) has certainly grown up. She looks so mature now, not girl-ish. 

Yep - check out the screen test video below when she goes toe-to-toe with Hugh Jackman and holds her own very well. Even back then it was clear she had that extra something.

Logan

[Bill1978]

On 12/4/2020 at 4:52 AM, Lady S. said:

Well, we've been told the place is dangerous for grown-ups, and clearly he knew he needed kids to do the hard work here or else he would've already gotten the knife himself. Maybe he went there once and had to quickly run away from the spectres. 

This is probably the only bit of the plot that I'm confused over. Will and Lyra are using the same park that Boreal uses to cross worlds right? So shouldn't Boreal be entering Cittigaze every time he travels?? Or are the Spectres a new thing caused by the Asriel's activity and therefore the Spectres didn't exist in Cittigaze while Boreal was travelling in Season One? But for this to be true Boreal must have found another way through as he has done some world travelling. And another question, is it jut Cittigaze with the Spectres, or are they al over the world?

I really enjoyed this episode, in fact I am really loving this season. There doesn't seem to be as many slow scenes like in Season One. And this isn't meant to sound like a criticism cause it isn't, but with the introduction of Mary Malone and her computer, the show now feels like many of the children tv fantasy/sci fi shows I watched in the 80s/90s. The kids are the clued in ones educating adults. I hope Mary becomes a major player in the series, I am really enjoying the character.

Absolutely loved the interrogation scene with Coulter and Scoresby. What a great bit of cinema.

This episode really highlighted the fact that Coulter's daemon doesn't speak. Can it speak? Or has Coulter been so guarded her whole life with her emotions it never learnt how to speak? It is very clear that the two tolerate each other because they have to, but that little moment of them touching after the interrogation was quite heartbreaking. I feel Coulter isn't 100% bad like she would be in standard children's/YA novels.

This, at the moment, is my favourite episode of the season due to the minimal influence of the magisterium in the overall plot movement.

[Natalie25]

52 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

This is probably the only bit of the plot that I'm confused over. Will and Lyra are using the same park that Boreal uses to cross worlds right? So shouldn't Boreal be entering Cittigaze every time he travels?? Or are the Spectres a new thing caused by the Asriel's activity and therefore the Spectres didn't exist in Cittigaze while Boreal was travelling in Season One? But for this to be true Boreal must have found another way through as he has done some world travelling. And another question, is it jut Cittigaze with the Spectres, or are they al over the world?

I really enjoyed this episode, in fact I am really loving this season. There doesn't seem to be as many slow scenes like in Season One. And this isn't meant to sound like a criticism cause it isn't, but with the introduction of Mary Malone and her computer, the show now feels like many of the children tv fantasy/sci fi shows I watched in the 80s/90s. The kids are the clued in ones educating adults. I hope Mary becomes a major player in the series, I am really enjoying the character.

Absolutely loved the interrogation scene with Coulter and Scoresby. What a great bit of cinema.

This episode really highlighted the fact that Coulter's daemon doesn't speak. Can it speak? Or has Coulter been so guarded her whole life with her emotions it never learnt how to speak? It is very clear that the two tolerate each other because they have to, but that little moment of them touching after the interrogation was quite heartbreaking. I feel Coulter isn't 100% bad like she would be in standard children's/YA novels.

This, at the moment, is my favourite episode of the season due to the minimal influence of the magisterium in the overall plot movement.

I don't think the following explanation about Boreal/Cittagazze/Spectres is a spoiler, but is technically from a conversation that takes place later in Book 2 than what we've come to so far in the show.

Spoiler

Before Asriel opens the bridge at the end of Season 1, the windows always open into Cittagazze. Boreal has always had to pass through there when traveling between the two Oxfords. However, while there have always been spectres there, there weren't that many, and it was easier for adults to avoid them. Something about Asriel opening the bridge flooded Cittagazze with spectres, making it hard for adults to travel there safely. Opening the bridge also shifted the windows, and Boreal was able to discover a window that connected the two Oxfords directly - this is what he uses now, and is different from how he travel between the worlds before. As far as I'm aware spectres only exist in the world of Cittagazze.

 

[PinkRibbons]

 

[AAEBoiler]

I've never read the books so this is all new and I'm sorta lost because adaptations never do the books justice.

That said, the single best part of this episode was Lyra eating popcorn. Dafne Keen's line reading of "I can't!" when asked why she didn't just stop eating the popcorn that she described as "like sawdust" made me laugh out loud! She brings a great intensity to this role.