E01.04: An Affair of Honor

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

The showrunner acknowledged that the show exists in an alternate universe very deliberately

Why wouldn't this alternate universe also have equal rights to women?  

[shapeshifter]

Lone voice of dissent here? I’m glad they made a passing (no pun intended) reference to race, and feel to have left it out would be whitewashing (double entendre intended) the casting choices. 

[bijoux]

I don't mind that they adressed it, but I don't think just the timeline of Charlotte's time on the throne is enough for full integration and acceptance. IMO there needed to be something preceeding it to set the stage for dukes and... well, I'm not really sure what title Lady Danburry's husband had. 

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I don't mind that they adressed it, but I don't think just the timeline of Charlotte's time on the throne is enough for full integration and acceptance. IMO there needed to be something preceeding it to set the stage for dukes and... well, I'm not really sure what title Lady Danburry's husband had. 

Maybe in future seasons we’ll get more backstory on the racial integration in this Bridgerton’s universe. 
I can imagine a writer’s meeting where they decided to focus a first season on the audience-grabbing, bodice-ripping type of scenes and maybe cut some relatively boring exposition dialogue. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by shapeshifter

[LilJen]

Why does Queen Charlotte always look like she’s sucking on a lemon?

[janie jones]

On 1/16/2021 at 3:05 AM, Roseanna said:

Why wouldn't this alternate universe also have equal rights to women?  

Because all of the plots on the show are predicated on women not having equal rights.

[jrzy]

On 12/27/2020 at 12:59 AM, bannana said:

Wait, nothing about the necklace that Daphne ripped off her neck and left on the stone wall before she went and got all almost defiled and shamed?

I kept waiting for someone to ask about it or show up with it.

Oh my goodness, I am so glad somebody else mentioned that,  it drives me crazy when this kind of stuff happens in shows,  I kept waiting for the Prince or somebody to ask for the necklace back!  Those little details can take me right out of the narrative.   

[Ilovepie]

On 1/2/2021 at 11:35 AM, dbell1 said:

I hate Eloise. The hair, the hats, the clothes, the EYEBROWS, the voice of an 80 year old man. There’s no way she’s 15, I think she was replaced as an infant with a troll. I totally get the character, but the actress, hard pass.

 

On 1/2/2021 at 4:47 PM, gutbuster said:

Totally agree about Eloise. I'm so glad I'm not alone. After bingeing the first five episodes, I was disheartened when I first started reading the comments to find that once again, the character everyone seemed to love was the one I could not stand the most.

 

 

On 1/2/2021 at 9:34 PM, dbell1 said:

Join me in my Eloise dislike, I’ve got snacks and snark. 😅 Someday others will join us. 

Getting through this series very slowly. Episode one I loved Eloise - she stood out as unique and funny. But here I am at episode four and I cannot stand her. The petulant snark has gotten tiresome as well as her stupid hair and ugly dresses. I was actually glad Penelope told her off. 

[AryasMum]

On 1/16/2021 at 12:00 AM, Umbelina said:

I expect family groups to look like one another, at least a bit, so yes, I would have been thrown by say, just one of the 8 Bridgeton kids being black.  So, it's not exactly "colorblind" I wanted.  I just wanted color to never have mattered, not that I expected to have two black parents have a blue eyed blond daughter and a son who looked Japanese.  

It was the world I wanted colorblind, not the show.

It would have been nice if the abusive father and the fallen woman hadn’t necessarily been POC. 

[AryasMum]

I’m struggling with what Shonda is trying to do here. I understand why, and I would love if we could apply contemporary morals and issues to this time period, but it doesn’t work for me. 
 

Daphne is outraged that Anthony is treating her like a child. She insists she is a woman who made an informed choice to have a sexual moment in a garden during a party.  But this is the same girl who thinks babies are delivered by fairies, or some other foolishness.  This is the girl who has already wondered off twice and been compromised by two separate men.  
 

Daphne is what Anthony thinks she is - a sheltered girl in her first season, naive in the ways of men, and completely ignorant about sex and what men will do to get it and then abandon you - as witnessed by Marina.  
 

And she may righteously claim she had rather be ruined than for someone to die, but that simply wasn’t true at the time. Daphne’s ruin would then ruin all of her younger sisters. Anthony would probably skate by unscathed, being a titled man, but his brother’s prospects would be considerably lower. Society would turn their back on the family.  The ton was a vicious, jealous, and cruel group who relished punishing and ostracizing people. 

[statsgirl]

On 1/16/2021 at 12:00 AM, Umbelina said:

I expect family groups to look like one another, at least a bit, so yes, I would have been thrown by say, just one of the 8 Bridgeton kids being black.  So, it's not exactly "colorblind" I wanted.  I just wanted color to never have mattered, not that I expected to have two black parents have a blue eyed blond daughter and a son who looked Japanese.  

It was the world I wanted colorblind, not the show.

This says perfectly why it doesn't work on the show for me.

I can't throw away my lessons on genetics. But more than that, Bridgerton's storylines are dependent on the rules of society of the time so picking and choosing what they will keep while completely overthrowing others always pulls me out of the show.

Put me down for also wishing that it was the 'verse that was colour blind, like a McGuffin, rather than twisting nature to make this pocket work here.

[Katsullivan]

1 hour ago, AryasMum said:

And she may righteously claim she had rather be ruined than for someone to die, but that simply wasn’t true at the time. Daphne’s ruin would then ruin all of her younger sisters. Anthony would probably skate by unscathed, being a titled man, but his brother’s prospects would be considerably lower. Society would turn their back on the family.  The ton was a vicious, jealous, and cruel group who relished punishing and ostracizing people. 

The duel is closing the gate after the horse or however the saying goes. If the story gets out, it won’t restore her reputation. It would just leave one man dead and another a fugitive but the scandal remains. Also at the time, they didn’t realize anyone knew about the garden encounter. If anything, news of the duel - which will get out what with one man dead/injured and the other fled - will make people ask questions that they might not have asked. Whichever scenario, the duel doesn’t help solve anything but Anthony’s pride. That’s why she’s pissed.

[AryasMum]

56 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

The duel is closing the gate after the horse or however the saying goes. If the story gets out, it won’t restore her reputation. It would just leave one man dead and another a fugitive but the scandal remains. Also at the time, they didn’t realize anyone knew about the garden encounter. If anything, news of the duel - which will get out what with one man dead/injured and the other fled - will make people ask questions that they might not have asked. Whichever scenario, the duel doesn’t help solve anything but Anthony’s pride. That’s why she’s pissed.

Perhaps not, but wildly riding down the streets of London, with little attempt to conceal her identity, was a sure way to potentially be exposed. It was foolish and impetuous, which this Daphne has been written to be, and she almost got herself killed in the bargain.  Then there’s the doctor present who now knows the cause of the duel, which endangers her more.  She’s stomping her foot demanding to be treated like an adult, and then behaving like the pampered, sheltered little fool she was raised to be. 
 

Perhaps it’s simply the problem of my having read seven of these books multiple times, but I am very unhappy with the changes.  Anthony was not in love with his mistress, who absolutely would have known where she stood in this arrangement, and it cheapens the next season, which I assume is his. It implies he will only be settling, because the rules of society have kept him from his true love. 
 

Then we have the pregnant, unmarried girl, who shows no signs of how desperate her circumstances truly are, and insists she must have a handsome, charming, rich, connected husband of her choosing. One she plans on seducing and trapping into claiming her child.  Do I believe these types of situations happened, absolutely.  But the comparison of Daphne’s final understanding at the duel, that she was about to face shame and reproach, with Marina’s brazen attitude, and disrespect toward those trying to help her, I have to wonder at the intentions of the writers. And that the sweet one has been cast as the white girl, and the manipulative one is black bothers me.  Plus, it’s tainted the character of Penelope, which we will eventually be expected to root for. 
 

I was excited about this project, but for me, they are unnecessarily going for shock value. They have an amazing cast, a solid eight books of story telling, and they’re making characters who were so rootable in the books, far less likable. It’s so sensationalistic, like having Benedict in homo-erotic scenes, and adding in unnecessary characters.  They seemed to have wanted to write a modern soap opera, but just have period clothing.  This type of book is called a wallpaper historical romance, and doesn’t get a lot of respect in the industry. 

[Katsullivan]

On 2/9/2021 at 12:20 PM, AryasMum said:

And that the sweet one has been cast as the white girl, and the manipulative one is black bothers me.  Plus, it’s tainted the character of Penelope, which we will eventually be expected to root for. 

There are a lot of problematic aspects of race dynamics in this show. 

[Macbeth]

On 12/27/2020 at 1:59 AM, bannana said:

Wait, nothing about the necklace that Daphne ripped off her neck and left on the stone wall before she went and got all almost defiled and shamed?

I kept waiting for someone to ask about it or show up with it.

That's all I was thinking about when Simon and Daphne were having their big scene.  

When she left - she didn't pick up the necklace.  When Simon went after her - he didn't pick up the necklace.

Poor abandoned diamonds.

[Macbeth]

On 12/30/2020 at 1:12 PM, iMonrey said:

I know this is just a dressed up soap opera, but the star-crossed lovers who aren't telling each other the real reason they can't be together and lie and pretend they don't even like each other so the other can move on with someone else is just so tedious and overdone. 

A 1000 times this.

I was like- for God's sake we have to wade through the muck that is this clunker of a plot yet again.

[Cherry Cola]

I feel like the writers just finished watching Titanic when I watch this. And not just in this episode. But to this specific episode, when Daff has the necklace on, touching it in the mirror, I expect Cal Hockley to come in and say," I know you have been Melancholy, I don't pretend to know why. "   And the mom was watching from the door like Cal does!! 

And Daphne fleeing the party stopping at the wall, heavy breathing, just like Rose. Then the following conversation that Simon can't tell her how to feel, same convo happened with Jack and Rose.  Is it just me? Ok. 😆  Huge Titanic fan.  

[Camera One]

I thought Daphne and the Duke had chemistry in the first three episodes, but in this one, I kept thinking she was an idiot to moon over him.  The Prince seemed like a nice guy and a way better provider and potential husband and father.   And then over and over, Simon was stupidly sticking to sticking it to his dead father, to the point where I wanted him to take his self-destructive attitude and just get out of town like he promised to.  Which ultimately meant the kiss was more of an eye-rolling moment than a swoon-worthy one.

Mrs. Featherington and her daughters reminded me a little of Cinderella's stepmother and stepsisters.  For once, I actually did cheer Mrs. Featherington on when she was searching through her husband's stuff.  I hope she finds a way out of their predicament for the girls' sakes.

It was good to see a bit more of Benedict.  I really can't tell how old people are in this production.  Sometimes, Benedict looks kinda old, and so does Colin but apparently he's still quite young?  Penelope and Eloise both look/seem like little girls half the time and 40-year-old women at other times (well, mostly Eloise).  The argument between Penelope and Eloise was hard to watch.  

Marina sure seemed to have gotten over her soldier boyfriend's rejection letter fast?  They should have toned down her enthusiasm about Colin, or at least waited an episode or two.

I couldn't blame Mrs. Bridgerton for drinking so much at the ball given the questionable love choices of her eldest son and daughter.  This show is making me think duty over love is the way to go.

The duel was the most idiotic thing, and it brought Anthony down from the rehabilitation he got in the last two episodes.  It was almost like he began to see the duel as his way out and to be with his mistresses, which made no sense.  Running away with or without a duel would be equally bad.  But there was a lot of idiocy going around in this episode, so overall, I didn't like it as much.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Camera One

[Llywela]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

Penelope and Eloise both look/seem like little girls half the time and 40-year-old women at other times (well, mostly Eloise). 

That's just what happens when you hire 30-something actors to play teenage characters! The books evidently span a period of many years, which the show hopes to cover in rather fewer years, so some of the casting was made with an eye to the future, so to speak...with the inevitable result that 30-something actors aren't entirely convincing as the teenagers they are currently meant to be playing. Eloise, for instance, isn't 'out' yet, so can't be more than 16/17. Penelope is meant to be about the same age, she's out a little early. Both actresses, however, are over 30, and as good as they are, and as good as their costumes/hair/make-up, it does show!

[LadyChaos]

I always thought Marina was stupid to not marry Lord Ruttludge. I mean, he already knew she was with child and that was why he wanted her...for an heir. But the thing is, he was likely to pass from old age in a few years, then she would've been a wealthy widow free to do as she pleases, like Lady Danbury, without being tied to a man. Everyone would've gone into the situation with their eyes open, no one would've been used or manipulated, and everyone would've gotten what they wanted. She would've been safe and secure with a future to do as she pleases and he would've gotten an heir.....he clearly didn't care the child wasn't his so he either couldn't produce one or lacked the desire to try...so I doubt it was likely he would've tried to intimate with her very often, if at all.

Edited March 22, 2022 by LadyChaos

[LadyChaos]

On 2/8/2021 at 12:35 AM, Ilovepie said:

 

 

Getting through this series very slowly. Episode one I loved Eloise - she stood out as unique and funny. But here I am at episode four and I cannot stand her. The petulant snark has gotten tiresome as well as her stupid hair and ugly dresses. I was actually glad Penelope told her off. 

Same. I think we all know that one person who is sooooo sure their opinion is the right one, and everyone either shares it openly or in secret, or is wrong.....and it grates after a while. Eloise needed reminding that her views are not everyones.....and at that, because Eloise is a Bridgerton and the daughter of a Viscount with 4 older brothers to support her....she would be safe to not marry and be the spinster aunt who focuses on intellectual pursuits, whereas Penelope with no brothers would not be afforded the same opportunity.

[bijoux]

I really don't recall that old geezer being aware of Marina's pregnancy, just a lot of leering about childbearing hips or some such. Which certainly implied him wanting to rumple the sheets on a regular basis.

[Ilovepie]

6 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

Same. I think we all know that one person who is sooooo sure their opinion is the right one, and everyone either shares it openly or in secret, or is wrong.....and it grates after a while. Eloise needed reminding that her views are not everyones.....and at that, because Eloise is a Bridgerton and the daughter of a Viscount with 4 older brothers to support her....she would be safe to not marry and be the spinster aunt who focuses on intellectual pursuits, whereas Penelope with no brothers would not be afforded the same opportunity.

Exactly!

[LadyChaos]

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

I really don't recall that old geezer being aware of Marina's pregnancy, just a lot of leering about childbearing hips or some such. Which certainly implied him wanting to rumple the sheets on a regular basis.

Its not stated outright, but implied. When they were dancing and he wants to dance a 3rd time, she told him it would be improper.....he looks at her stomach and tells her that there was no need to pretend to be virtuous with him and there were other virtues he preferred.

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

I always thought Marina was stupid to not marry Lord Ruttludge. I mean, he already knew she was with child and that was why he wanted her...for an heir. But the thing is, he was likely to pass from old age in a few years, then she would've been a wealthy widow free to do as she pleases, like Lady Danbury, without being tied to a man. Everyone would've gone into the situation with their eyes open, no one would've been used or manipulated, and everyone would've gotten what they wanted. She would've been safe and secure with a future to do as she pleases and he would've gotten an heir.....he clearly didn't care the child wasn't his so he either couldn't produce one or lacked the desire to try...so I doubt it was likely he would've tried to intimate with her very often, if at all.

So did I. He'd be dead in a couple years and she could do whatever she want. Have fun being a widow or go after a hotter husband. 

17 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

Same. I think we all know that one person who is sooooo sure their opinion is the right one, and everyone either shares it openly or in secret, or is wrong.....and it grates after a while. Eloise needed reminding that her views are not everyones.....and at that, because Eloise is a Bridgerton and the daughter of a Viscount with 4 older brothers to support her....she would be safe to not marry and be the spinster aunt who focuses on intellectual pursuits, whereas Penelope with no brothers would not be afforded the same opportunity.

Yeah, Eloise has the privilege of being able to pursue hobbies and not have to marry if she doesn't want to because her family will always support her. Other families don't. Penelope's family doesn't. It reminded me of in Pride and Prejudice when Lizzie is shocked that Charlotte accepted Mr. Collin's proposal. Jane points out that Lizzie doesn't always take into account other people's situations. Eloise doesn't. 

[Thalia]

On 1/2/2021 at 11:34 PM, dbell1 said:

Join me in my Eloise dislike, I’ve got snacks and snark. 😅 Someday others will join us. 

I'll bring my own Diet Coke to the meeting.  It is a shame, because from what I've seen in interviews, Claudia Jessie is a funny, lovely person.  And Book Eloise never really bothered me.  Just something happened when the actress, the character, and the direction were married that makes me want to scream "Just shut up!" whenever she's going on about some injustice.  

[GaT]

Aww, I'll pretty much forgive Eloise anything for setting off the "how does a lady come to be with child?" scene

EDITED: I've now rewatched this scene again about 10 times now "Do not look at me" "Have you ever visited a farm?" 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Edited March 25, 2022 by GaT

[bijoux]

Eloise can be frustrating almost as if she were... a teenager. 

 

They can be pretty horrid, I know.

Edited March 24, 2022 by bijoux

[LadyChaos]

On 3/24/2022 at 1:36 AM, bijoux said:

Eloise can be frustrating almost as if she were... a teenager. 

 

They can be pretty horrid, I know.

Except in the Regency era she would be treated like at adult and expected to act like one. She is the same age as Penelope and could have been out in society like Penelope. 

[MrsJumbo3]

If Daphne was so proper & such a rule follower, why did she stupidly go in the garden by herself, twice? The place where reputations can be ruined. She knows better. If she needs “air”, go on a balcony or in another room.

Am I the only one rooting for the Prince? 
 

Love Lady Featherington! 

[katha]

I think Daphne and Simon were acting on their attraction and then didn't want to admit and verbalize that. Which is why it escalates like that. Daphne should not have gone into the garden. Simon should have stayed the hell away if he knows that he does not want to get married. Once he has her compromised it all gets pretty tangled. Then Daphne says yes to a proposal that Simon never made... Their relationship is getting off to a pretty rocky start tbh.  

[LilJen]

18 hours ago, MrsJumbo3 said:

If Daphne was so proper & such a rule follower, why did she stupidly go in the garden by herself, twice? The place where reputations can be ruined. She knows better. If she needs “air”, go on a balcony or in another room.

Am I the only one rooting for the Prince? 
 

Love Lady Featherington! 

I dig the Prince. He deserves a truly awesome match.

[Roseanna]

A unmarried woman couldn't accept expensive gifts from a man with whom she wasn't engaged without endangering her reputation.

And of course princes married princesses and there were plenty of royalty in German principalies. *If* a prince married a commoner (which Daphne), his wife didn't become a princess but f.ex. a countess and their children didn't inherit.