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S04.E04: The Pretend War


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Have I ever mentioned how much I hate dark, murky lighting in shows and movies.  Yes, producers, I do get that you're going for a noir-ish atmosphere, and that the characters may be operating "in the dark," both literally and figuratively.

But please don't keep the audience from seeing what's going on!  If I can't see well enough to follow the story, or recognize the characters in a scene, I'm going to lose interest.

(Jurassic Park did the same thing; wish I could have seen what the heck was happening.)

That said, I don't think Zelmare did near enough good a job of washing the puke smell out of that money!

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Not sure why there is a "Grudge" ghost that seems to do nothing...

Ethelrida is actually not that bright...Why is she scared of a ringing phone? Why steal something when you will be the only suspect? 

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Between Thurman paying off his debt to Loy with Loy's own stolen money (to be fair, he didn't know his sister in-law actually stole from Loy, but still!) and Ethelrida probably putting a target on her back by leaving her notebook in Mayflower's closet "of poison and evidence that I'm totally a crazy serial killer!" like that, it seems like Dibrell might be the only one of the Smutney family that has her head on straight.  Of course, I doubt even that would matter to either Loy or Mayflower.  This family is probably in for a rough time!

Struggling to care about the constant dick-measuring contest between Josto and Gaetano.  I wish one of them would hurry up and kill the other, so we can move past all of this squabbling.

Rabbi seems to be in a precarious situation, but I was kind of impressed that he didn't fold under the pressure Loy was putting him under.  Ben Whishaw is really doing well with the material he is given, despite it being smaller compared to some of the other cast members.

Well, Deafy sure has no issues just sauntering up to a bunch of clearly harden members of the Italian mafia, and egging them on by talking about the lovely time the Mormons apparently committed hate crimes on some Italians.  Dude clearly has a few screws loose, but damn, if Timothy Olyphant ain't making him one of the more compelling and certainly more fun characters here.

The horror elements were certainly... strange.

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Seems like Noah Hawley needed someone to rein in his scope of casting requests and then edit down the story accordingly. Maybe he felt like this was going to be his last Fargo foray and decided it was kitchen sink time.

Anyway,
Thurman Smutny was quizzed by Auntie Zelmare as to who made the pie/desert.
If Swanee ("Swan Lake") dies of heart failure from ipecac overdose, I'm guessing Zelmare will want payback.
Meanwhile, Ethelrida saw ipecac and poisons at the home of the "neighbor" (how Thurman identified her to Zelmare) and also realizes she's a serial killer. 
Tune in next week(s) to see if Ethelrida imparts that information to Auntie Zelmare.

As to who will make it out alive, currently I'm guessing Ethelrida, in part because of the voice over in the pilot, but also just because.

Edited by shapeshifter
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10 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Ethelrida "saw" that ghostly creature, and her aunt seemed very familiar with the thing that emerged from the bathtub.

Is this the shadowy figure we saw in the street when Oraetta came back from delivering the pie? Is it perhaps following the fugitives?

 

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

As to who will make it out alive, currently I'm guessing Ethelrida, in part because of the voice over in the pilot, but also just because.

We've had dead people narrate stories before. I won't mention the most obvious example, for those yet to see it (always new generations discovering old material), but I imagine quite a few of you know what movie I'm referencing.

Edited by Starchild
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Snow Man is no Lorne Malvo, but credit for bringing in the mystical.

More horrid storytelling rich with style and void of a recognizable universe.

Oraletta went off on Josto for having a potty mouth in their quaint pillow talk.  OK.  Seems like a reasonable note of irony from a serial murderer.  Standard, even.  Josto apologizes.  Less than 20 seconds later, he says "Shit!"  Annnnnd...nothing.  A few more seconds pass by, some more back and forth and some bon mots, he fails to use a euphemism, and she goes off again about proper and respectful discourse.  Did these actors have any clue about any of this?  Or was it all just a matter of, "Whatever."  We are making ART!

Loy was again made a fool and weak in front of his men.  We are supposed to accept his unquestioned authority?  When that is the main point of things on the Fadda side?  Really?

Doctor was Mr. Intuitive in the first few eps when he counseled Loy.  In this ep, he was as gobsmacked as Mr. American Values when he learned of the attempted hit on Lemuel being ordered by Gaetano.  I did appreciate the anger pouring out of him, though.  Finally, some reality.  Good choice, Glynn.

Deafy's confidence is fine.  Yet, he himself has mentioned the power of the stupid.  No badge to be seen in the entire encounter with Gaetano and his muscle.  Again, style over reality.  How convenient that Gaetano did not get bug eyed when dealing with the putz who was being audacious in front of him.  A first!  Did someone go to acting class between shooting days?

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So its possible that our possibly mythical magical realism thing of the season is...ghosts! Literal ghosts or possibly a medical condition that makes you see things, but that sure does add something to the season, as the mythical magical realism stuff is often some of the best parts of a Fargo season. 

Its just possible that, just maybe robbing, the mob to help your family pay the mob, the very mob that you stole from, and not letting them know where the money comes from might not have been the smartest idea ever. Also, looking at all that money floating in that nasty tub was just icky. The best thing that could come out of that gross water is a ghost. 

I will give that Italian mob guy in the car in the ring of fire some credit, that guy saw a bunch of rival crooks surrounding him and threatening to set him on fire, and he did not give a fuck. I hope that things move one way or another with the rivalry between Josto and Gaetano come to a head sooner rather than later. Rabbi is definitely the most interesting person in the Italian camp, he really could not even bother caring when Loy threatened him, and after everything he went through as a kid, I can imagine that it takes a lot to really shake him. 

Loy in general doesn't really impress me as a mob boss, but I am glad that he at least pretty quickly figured out that it wasn't the Italians that robbed them, and just two random women. 

Its really hard to get a read on Deafy, but god dang is Timothy Olyphant entertaining.

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It took a little adjustment, but, I think I might like this season more than most I have read about around here. I do get bothered by some things that stand out to me, but, it's probably just me. For example, 

Would a crime family leader (Josto) sit at a desk with his back to two large windows? This is presumably in his home.  

Would the son of a crime family leader like Loy sit at a traffic light without noticing someone has pulled right up to you and pointed a gun?  Wouldn't he have been taught a little self awareness?  

Joto's brother really annoys me.  He's almost like a cartoon character.  And, I thought he had more of a Spanish accent. I'm wrong on that though, because, the actor is actually from Italy.  lol  

I thought what we were seeing is people who see spirits.  They are in touch with those who have gone on.  

And, I'm still struggling with the point of the child exchange.   

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On 10/12/2020 at 12:06 PM, BC4ME said:

It's never good when I can't wait for an episode to be over.

I'm with you on this one!  I thought S3 was a hot mess, S4 is an even hotter mess!!  The scenes are way too dark to see what's going on, especially when the majority of the cast are people of color!  I know because I am a woman of color and I am straining trying to make out who's who.  Not to mention the funky names that nobody can spell or understand unless they're using closed caption.  I made up my mind after Ep4 that I was done and would only read the recaps.  I'll continue to record and if a recap looks half-way decent I'll watch it.  Right now, I can't bear it, I just can't.

I cannot believe I waited - what - 3 years for this?!!  S1 and S2 are hands down the best of the best.  I was hooked after S1 and even though S2 wasn't as good as S1, it had me anxiously waiting for the next episode every week.

Fargo had a really good thing going and Noah Cawley/Crawley definitely missed the mark with S3 and S4, IMO.

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2 hours ago, Evagirl said:

The scenes are way too dark to see what's going on, especially when the majority of the cast are people of color!  I know because I am a woman of color and I am straining trying to make out who's who. 

Yes!  The characters may be operating in the dark, but the audience shouldn't be!  Fix the darn lighting.

 

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Would the son of a crime family leader like Loy sit at a traffic light without noticing someone has pulled right up to you and pointed a gun?  Wouldn't he have been taught a little self awareness? 

Eh, he's a music man, not a criminal - Loy said himself, the kid just wants to smoke reefer and blow spit through metal!  He may have been taught, but that doesn't mean the lesson took (especially with the aforementioned reefer.)

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2 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:
5 hours ago, Evagirl said:

The scenes are way too dark to see what's going on, especially when the majority of the cast are people of color!  I know because I am a woman of color and I am straining trying to make out who's who. 

Yes!  The characters may be operating in the dark, but the audience shouldn't be!  Fix the darn lighting.

I watched via Hulu (thank you, daughter) on my laptop, and the first thing I did was turn the brightness up.

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On 10/13/2020 at 12:25 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

And, I'm still struggling with the point of the child exchange.

Just wait until Loy finds out that his son is being kept basically a prisoner in the Italian home, while Josto's son has been treated and included as one of Loy's family.  Or not.  Maybe the child exchange will not be addressed further.

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2 hours ago, roughing it said:
On 10/13/2020 at 1:25 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

And, I'm still struggling with the point of the child exchange.

Just wait until Loy finds out that his son is being kept basically a prisoner in the Italian home, while Josto's son has been treated and included as one of Loy's family.  Or not.  Maybe the child exchange will not be addressed further.

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Well, according to their local history, the child exchange is very risky and results in the murder of the entire group, so, one lapse with the kid and you're toast.  I fail to see how that's beneficial.  

Does anyone know if the exchange of sons is based upon anything that happened historically? 
If not, I'm speculating that the whole premise of ethnic war here is based on, well, ethnic wars, and/or political faction divides, with the exchange of sons taking on a symbolic meaning for the story and it's theme. 

 

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12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Does anyone know if the exchange of sons is based upon anything that happened historically? 
If not, I'm speculating that the whole premise of ethnic war here is based on, well, ethnic wars, and/or political faction divides, with the exchange of sons taking on a symbolic meaning for the story and it's theme. 

 

I’m not aware of anything. This link has a piece on  events of from the show. It says the writers of Fargo created the child exchange as something that developed in Kansas City during the 1920’s. 
https://screenrant.com/fargo-season-4-gangs-trading-sons-reason-explained/

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I've heard the exchange of sons story from Irish folklore.  Supposedly a chiefton's son would be sent to live with a family of peasants until a certain age, thus insuring that their interests would be served among the nobles.  Sounds like blarney.  What if gets back with a big chip on his shoulder about it?

Edited by Razzberry
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2 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I've heard the exchange of sons story from Irish folklore.  Supposedly a chiefton's son would be sent to live with a family of peasants until a certain age, thus insuring that their interests would be served among the nobles.  Sounds like blarney.  What if gets back with a big chip on his shoulder about it?

Isn't there a version of A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court in which doppelganger boys switch places?

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16 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I'm slooowwwwllllyyyy warming up to this show; however, I think Chris Rock was seriously miscast as Loy.  I keep waiting for him to bust out a joke.  

I agree. It's a struggle. Love the comedian, but, for me, he doesn't translate into a dramatic actor.  For me, Francis McDermott is a genius at doing it.  She has the ability to carry out both dramatic and humor at the same time. It's a great quality.  Not Rock's fault, but, a mistake for the producers/directors. 

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16 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I've heard the exchange of sons story from Irish folklore.  Supposedly a chiefton's son would be sent to live with a family of peasants until a certain age, thus insuring that their interests would be served among the nobles.  Sounds like blarney.  What if gets back with a big chip on his shoulder about it?

Well, the groups on this season, seem to be showing a good deal of thinking things through and trying to surmise just what is making the other group tick....gauging their moves and motivations. (With the exception of Josto's brother, who I can't take seriously.  How is he even in the country?)  I do like that, so, if that's the case, why don't they consider more of what has happened with previous child exchanges?  Maybe, that's to come. 

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18 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Isn't there a version of A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court in which doppelganger boys switch places?

Probably.  I think it may be an ancient myth that many cultures tweaked to suit their purpose because it makes a great story, but not sure there's any truth in it. 

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9 hours ago, Razzberry said:
On 10/15/2020 at 10:11 PM, shapeshifter said:

Isn't there a version of A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court in which doppelganger boys switch places?

 

That would be The Prince and the Pauper, not Connecticut Yankee. But both stories were by Mark Twain. (And the doppelganger boys switched themselves; it wasn't anything the adults orchestrated.)

Edited by Gimmick Genius
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1 hour ago, Gimmick Genius said:

That would be The Prince and the Pauper, not Connecticut Yankee. But both stories were by Mark Twain. (And the doppelganger boys switched themselves; it wasn't anything the adults orchestrated.)

Thank you! I knew it was Mark Twain! But I latched onto the wrong title. 
Anyway, I wonder if Hawley either consciously or subconsciously was inspired by The Prince and the Pauper?

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Trading sons was a feature of Jack Kirby's NEW GODS (AKA "Fourth World") comics for DC. Highfather of New Genesis traded his son Scott Free (that's his name) for Darkseid of Apockalips' s son Orion.

 

The difference in Prince and the Pauper  is, no one but the boys know they've been switched. No one else believes them.

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Another tale from Twain is Pudd’nhead Wilson, where two boys are switched at birth. One born into slavery 1/32 black and the other, a white child of wealth.  They take on the traits from which they are exposed. 

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On 10/17/2020 at 2:46 AM, shapeshifter said:
On 10/17/2020 at 1:19 AM, Gimmick Genius said:

That would be The Prince and the Pauper, not Connecticut Yankee. But both stories were by Mark Twain. (And the doppelganger boys switched themselves; it wasn't anything the adults orchestrated.)

Thank you! I knew it was Mark Twain! But I latched onto the wrong title. 
Anyway, I wonder if Hawley either consciously or subconsciously was inspired by The Prince and the Pauper?

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Another tale from Twain is Pudd’nhead Wilson, where two boys are switched at birth. One born into slavery 1/32 black and the other, a white child of wealth.  They take on the traits from which they are exposed. 

Yes! That one too! Now I *really* want to at least know if Hawley has read these Twain tales. 

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Wow, that girl sure is nosy. And now they're adding ghost to the mix what's going on with this show? It doesn't feel like Fargo to me at all and I don't care about anyone the only one I like a little is Rabbi. This is going to be hard for me to get through.

Edited by foxfreakinmulder
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How do you sell guns at "cost" when you stole them?

So far this season has been kind of interesting. I assume that some form of the Italian gang will come out on top, since the Gerhardt's seemed to be dealing with Kansas City mafia. 

On 10/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Crashcourse said:

I'm slooowwwwllllyyyy warming up to this show; however, I think Chris Rock was seriously miscast as Loy.  I keep waiting for him to bust out a joke.  

I kind of think so too, every time he goes on a long speech it sounds like a stand up bit. 

On 10/13/2020 at 10:07 AM, tennisgurl said:

So its possible that our possibly mythical magical realism thing of the season is...ghosts! Literal ghosts or possibly a medical condition that makes you see things, but that sure does add something to the season, as the mythical magical realism stuff is often some of the best parts of a Fargo season.

The weird out there stuff in Fargo can  e hit or miss for me. The flying saucer was hilarious and used perfectly. But the purgatory bowling alley (or whatever that was) was super annoying.

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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