S15.E14: Last Holiday

[gonzosgirrl]

Dean and Sam discover a wood nymph living in the bunker who is determined to protect her family, at any cost.

Airdate: October 8, 2020

The beginning of the end.

[Katy M]

I actually kind of liked this.  Maybe it's because I haven't seen an episode in so long.   I didn't watch the last 2 or 3 episodes, so a bit jarring to see Dean gettng along so well with Jack.  I love when Dean gets to wear old fashioned nightgear.  Ending was lame.   I hate to see what kind of havoc she'll cause in the woods.  Maybe she can just come here and clean for me.  i won't let anybody else inside.  

[bettername2come]

"Practicing your sign language" is a fun euphemism. Was this Jack's first "son of a bitch!"? And it came just after I was looking at his smile thinking he looked so much like Cas and then he just switched dads to resemble. Dean correcting his "Dang it!" to "Damn it! DAMN IT!" was adorable. Loved that Sam got to yield Mjolnir again. And was that the grenade launcher Dean had? Their best weapons! I will definitely be using some of those happy holiday moments in a future fanvideo. Sam reminded me of Reid from Criminal Minds in his date outfit. I liked Dean's progression with Jack. Trying to move forward. The cake was a nice touch. And looked like a pretty decent cake too.

I'm glad Mrs. Butters didn't end up evil. She was a fun one-off character. And she fixed the TV from Scoobynatural! And revealed Dean has Scooby boxers. But her complaining they didn't have homecooked meals immediately after Dean cooked was just plain wrong. 

It's always the non-monstery stuff that scares me on this show - the fingernail pulling. Putting that on the list of "Most Horrifying Supernatural Moments" next to the other fingernail pulling, the Drano and the garbage disposal.

I think this is the longest I've gone without watching Supernatural since 2005. I don't think I've watched any full episodes during this hiatus and it's definitely the longest hiatus ever.

[gonzosgirrl]

So close. I was so close to enjoying an episode. 

Then Jackie Sue kicked in, figured out things the dumb old Winchesters missed, and stole Dean's catchphrase.  Just when I thought I couldn't hate Badd more.

 

 

Doesn't that just sum up #Dabbernatural?

Dean: eat better

Sam: look better

Jack: save the world

How many more ways do they have to boost up the nougat baby? We get it. The Winchesters are not the heroes of their own story anymore. #Supernatural

[BoxManLocke]

One down, six to go.

 

That would have been a pretty neat concept in season 9 or 10. Positioned as it was, it was just mediocre stalling. And the saddest part is I don't even think it's the last standalone we'll be getting before the series finale.

 

I started tuning out when they started to go with the obvious Jack situation. The writers lean so much on Mary's death as this gigantic black mark on Jack's life, but it's still among the most embarrassing character death the show has ever had. I can't hold Jack accountable for it. Aside from that, we're just way to close to the end for me to give a shit about whatever Jack is feeling.

 

There wasn't anything insulting in the plot or script I guess so it's decent by modern Supernatural standards.

 

That long break and coming back to that have made it even clearer to me that I'm extremely ready to say goodbye to this show.

[SueB]

That was delightful.  A bit of a palate cleanser before it goes super dark again. 
 

Favorite Parts:
- Ghostbuster montage.  With little Sam and Dean paper bags!
- Mrs Butters was generally a adorable (until she turned evil). I wish we could have kept her (of her own free will, of course)
- All the holidays - I wish Cas has gotten to share (but it might have made him happy)
- Sam still sees Eileen!!
- Deans honesty with Jack about Mary.  It’s not swept under the rug.  
-Learning what the table and the Telescope did. 
 

Other notes:

- I kind of like that Cuthbert’s ‘genius’ was really her magic for the big stuff.  
- I don’t want them to kill Amara.
- The antique cars work!!

it was just nice to see the boys ‘living the Dream ’ for a bit.   And she’s still an ally, that’s good. 
 

Edited October 9, 2020 by SueB

[WaltersHair]

I haven't watched in years but one spoilery question (if this is in the wrong places let me know)

Inter-dimensional geoscope is blank

Spoiler

So we're all dead? Because when Sam and Dean jumped into the dimension where they're actors, that was the real us?

also, damn Sam looks like Jack Nicholson from The Shining

[Myrelle]

8 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

One down, six to go.

This sums it up for me pretty well, too.

I'm just so over Jacknatural within Dabbernatural.

And more than ready to see Jensen move on from both.

 

 

[Lemuria]

10 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

Inter-dimensional geoscope is blank

Yep, all the other dimensions/alternate realities have been destroyed.

[Affogato]

11 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I haven't watched in years but one spoilery question (if this is in the wrong places let me know)

Inter-dimensional geoscope is blank

  Reveal spoiler

So we're all dead? Because when Sam and Dean jumped into the dimension where they're actors, that was the real us?

also, damn Sam looks like Jack Nicholson from The Shining

The interdimensional geoscope does seem like a Chekhov’s gun.  I was surprised they didn’t ask her about it. Not good?
 

You may be right.  

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, Affogato said:

The interdimensional geoscope does seem like a Chekhov’s gun.  I was surprised they didn’t ask her about it. Not good?
 

You may be right.  

They never ask anybody anything. On the other hand, it wouldn't kill people to just volunteer information once in a while. She knew why she was saying that's not good. Spit it out.

[Terese]

An interdimensional telescope? This show is now officially and unabashedly sci-fi. Cute episode,...the calm, following the calm, preceding the calm before the storm.  

[Frost]

I enjoyed Mrs Butters.  Too bad she was dispatched back to the woods.  Wouldn't Grandpa Winchester be in that photo?

At least the revelation that the bunker has been in Standby mode the entire time gives them an explanation for the number of times it's been breeched.

Was there any reason for Mrs Butters to like Sam best?  I thought that came out of nowhere.

[PAForrest]

1 hour ago, Lemuria said:

Yep, all the other dimensions/alternate realities have been destroyed.

Yeah, that's what I assumed.

It was decent enough in that it's pretty clear Jeremy is probably their best writer - and he writes mostly fluffy stuff, but with a bit of bite. Of course, he is forced to adhere to Badd's game plan, which is Princess Jackie Poo Sue being all Suey and speshul. Like as much as we know Jeremy really likes Jensen and likes Dean, it really felt out of place for him to insert the obligatory "Dean is old" shtick, especially standing next to Sam when he doesn't look even a minute younger than Dean anymore. And Sam being Mrs. Butters' favorite, for no apparent reason (though at least she did tell him to cut his hair)? That's doesn't sound like Jeremy, that's all Berens and Badd.

But at least he allowed Dean to be smart enough to figure out how to get out of the room, and how to disable Mrs. Butters, even if only temporarily.

The whole holiday routine was pretty charming and sweet. But I immediately assumed there was something off about those smoothies.

OTOH, the constant harping on Princess Jackie Poo Sue being the only one who can save the world - on a show where he would never exist were it not for Dean and Sam who are the ones who should be saving the world - never ceases to grate. I have to hope the fact that they're pushing it so hard means when it comes down to it, it won't go according to plan. Otherwise, how boring to show your complete hand already - not that I wouldn't put it past Badd because, well, he is BAD, after all.

I like that Dean is still having problems with Jackie Poo Sue - because he should. But at the same time he's way too forgiving already, because that is Dean's lot in life. Seriously, this is the guy who should be spouting wings because he is a freaking saint. Definitely a better man than I would be.

I like the actress who played Mrs. Butters. She's pretty cute in anything I've ever seen her in. I also like that her character was powerful, obsessively over protective, but not really evil as much as led astray.

And it was fun to see Cuthbert again, one last time.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by PAForrest
thoughts keep popping into my head

[Lemuria]

23 minutes ago, Frost said:

Wouldn't Grandpa Winchester be in that photo?

I thought that initially, too, but I then I remembered that Henry never made it to final initiation and only full members were in that photo.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Lemuria
Spelling counts

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So close. I was so close to enjoying an episode. 

Then Jackie Sue kicked in, figured out things the dumb old Winchesters missed, and stole Dean's catchphrase.  Just when I thought I couldn't hate Badd more.

 

 

Doesn't that just sum up #Dabbernatural?

Dean: eat better

Sam: look better

Jack: save the world

How many more ways do they have to boost up the nougat baby? We get it. The Winchesters are not the heroes of their own story anymore. #Supernatural

This.

[The Companion]

1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

"Practicing your sign language" is a fun euphemism. Was this Jack's first "son of a bitch!"? And it came just after I was looking at his smile thinking he looked so much like Cas and then he just switched dads to resemble. Dean correcting his "Dang it!" to "Damn it! DAMN IT!" was adorable. Loved that Sam got to yield Mjolnir again. And was that the grenade launcher Dean had? Their best weapons! I will definitely be using some of those happy holiday moments in a future fanvideo. Sam reminded me of Reid from Criminal Minds in his date outfit. I liked Dean's progression with Jack. Trying to move forward. The cake was a nice touch. And looked like a pretty decent cake too.

I'm glad Mrs. Butters didn't end up evil. She was a fun one-off character. And she fixed the TV from Scoobynatural! And revealed Dean has Scooby boxers. But her complaining they didn't have homecooked meals immediately after Dean cooked was just plain wrong. 

It's always the non-monstery stuff that scares me on this show - the fingernail pulling. Putting that on the list of "Most Horrifying Supernatural Moments" next to the other fingernail pulling, the Drano and the garbage disposal.

I think this is the longest I've gone without watching Supernatural since 2005. I don't think I've watched any full episodes during this hiatus and it's definitely the longest hiatus ever.

Same on all of this except the last one as this was my first live episode. Weeee.

I love the gory special effects but I could not look at those fingernails. 

1 hour ago, SueB said:

That was delightful.  A bit of a palate cleanser before it goes super dark again. 
 

Favorite Parts:
- Ghostbuster montage.  With little Sam and Dean paper bags!
- Mrs Butters was generally a adorable (until she turned evil). I wish we could have kept her (of her own free will, of course)
- All the holidays - I wish Cas has gotten to share (but it might have made him happy)
- Sam still sees Eileen!!
- Deans honesty with Jack about Mary.  It’s not swept under the rug.  
-Learning what the table and the Telescope did. 
 

Other notes:

- I kind of like that Cuthbert’s ‘genius’ was really her magic for the big stuff.  
- I don’t want them to kill Amara.
- The antique cars work!!

it was just nice to see the boys ‘living the Dream ’ for a bit.   And she’s still an ally, that’s good. 
 

I loved the ghostbusters montage so much. It was nice to see the guys happy. A little calm before the angst.

It's about time those cars got some use. 

I loved that Dean got to be firm that it wasn't something that he could just forget about.

 

Overall, it was fun and a bit silly. I really liked it.

[tennisgurl]

I have been watching a lot of old episodes lately, so its almost weird to come back to the show and see a new episode. I think I would have preferred something that moved the plot along a bit more so close to the finale, but this was a fun little one off adventure that I mostly enjoyed. I am glad that, before the angst-a-thon that we are sure to get coming up, we got to the Sam and Dean do what they do best, saving people and hunting things, and having some fun celebrating holidays and eating yummy dinner and being domestic. The holiday sequence was quite cute, and we even got the reappearance of Deans goofy bed clothes from Scooby-Natural! Mrs. Butters was a really fun character, and I am that she turned out to not be evil, she was just mislead. I am glad that she got to go home to her forest, even if I was sad to see her and her sack lunches go, but I would be happy to see her show up again to help out towards the end or something.  

I am kind of sad that Cas didnt get to enjoy the fun times. Cas has had a whole lot of birthdays that he has probably never had time to celebrate. 

I am also glad that the show allowed Dean to talk more about his complicated feelings towards Jack and how he killed Mary, and they didnt just ignore him being understandably upset like they have in the past, or acted like he was horrible for being pissed off and hurt. Its a tough situation, and Dean has ever right to be upset, but he also loves Jack and and is trying to find a way to deal with the situation. 

Really, the main problem I had with this episode was the same problem I have had with the show for awhile now, its obsession with making this the Jack Show Starring Jack with Sam and Dean as the supporting characters. Yeah yeah Jack is going to save the world the whole show is going to end up being all about Jack despite the fact that the show was leading to it all being about Sam and Dean until Jack showed up, blah blah. I liked this episode, I found it very charming, but then we had to end on the Jack the Savior thing, which just makes me sad going into this last batch of episodes. I guess we have more of that to look forward to...

Edited October 9, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Castiels Cat]

10 hours ago, SueB said:

That was delightful.  A bit of a palate cleanser before it goes super dark again. 
 

Favorite Parts:
- Ghostbuster montage.  With little Sam and Dean paper bags!
- Mrs Butters was generally a adorable (until she turned evil). I wish we could have kept her (of her own free will, of course)
- All the holidays - I wish Cas has gotten to share (but it might have made him happy)
- Sam still sees Eileen!!
- Deans honesty with Jack about Mary.  It’s not swept under the rug.  
-Learning what the table and the Telescope did. 
 

Other notes:

- I kind of like that Cuthbert’s ‘genius’ was really her magic for the big stuff.  
- I don’t want them to kill Amara.
- The antique cars work!!

it was just nice to see the boys ‘living the Dream ’ for a bit.   And she’s still an ally, that’s good. 
 

She wasn't evil. She was powerful, innocent and corrupted or led astray as to right and wrong by someone else. She was given a life's purpose and quest  by Cuthbert who mislead her. 

In other words she's probably a flashing red warning about Jack because she is an obvious mirror to him.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[Lemuria]

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Really, the main problem I had with this episode was the same problem I have had with the show for awhile now, its obsession with making this the Jack Show Starring Jack with Sam and Dean as the supporting characters. Yeah yeah Jack is going to save the world the whole show is going to end up being all about Jack despite the fact that the show was leading to it all being about Sam and Dean until Jack showed up, blah blah. I liked this episode, I found it very charming, but then we had to end on the Jack the Savior thing, which just makes me sad going into this last batch of episodes. I guess we have more of that to look forward to...

Can I like this 1000x?  Like you, I found the episode enjoyable--if mostly forgettable--until we again have to get Jack the Savior And The Character Who Ate The Show.  

 

WAIT!  She said that she was able to concoct, magically or otherwise, smoothies that basically took away Jack's power.  Would there be a way to do that to Chuck?  After all, Jack is supposed to be powerful enough to take Chuck on and win.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Lemuria
I have totally forgotten how to spell!

[Bergamot]

I wanted to enjoy this episode, because I have missed my show so much. Unfortunately, after watching the episode, I am still missing my show.

Remember in Changing Channels, when Dean and Sam were trapped inside a sitcom by the Trickster? This reminded me of that, except that instead of them being trapped inside a sitcom on the show, the whole show itself turned into a weird, cheesy sitcom. And we are supposed to believe that living inside "Supernatural: The Sitcom" makes Dean and Sam happy, and is in fact the fulfillment of their heart's desire. Because Dean gets to eat a lot of food and wear his cartoon nightgown. Haha, isn't he funny? And because Sam really wants to wear a silly party hat on his birthday, and to wear a sweater vest to go on a date with Eileen (but he has to make sure that he gets home early, haha!) I thought that it would turn out they were under some kind of spell, but nope, I guess not.

The most bizarre moment for me was when Mrs. Butters says to Dean, "But Jack killed your mother!". And Dean starts to respond, but he is distracted instead by the sight of the delicious sandwich which he has had to set aside because of Mrs. Butters' craziness, and he makes a sad, longing face at the sandwich. Haha, isn't he funny?  Because of course on "Supernatural: the Sitcom", Dean is incapable of concentrating for more than a second on the thought of his mother's death, not if there is a *tempting sandwich* waiting for him.

When the episode did try to take itself seriously for a moment, like the conversation about Dean's feelings about Jack, or the discussion about Jack being the one who will save the world, it was too jarring for me. I kept waiting for some kind of punchline to undercut the seriousness of those moments, like maybe the appearance of another tempting sandwich. They really should have just left out of the episode anything serious or real.

Okay, there was one moment that I did enjoy -- it was when they burst into the vampire's nest that first time, and the vampires were watching on TV the gothic vampire soap opera "Dark Shadows" from the 1960's.  I used to watch it after school every day. Hello Barnabas Collins!

Edited October 9, 2020 by Bergamot

[BoxManLocke]

51 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I am kind of sad that Cas didnt get to enjoy the fun times. Cas has had a whole lot of birthdays that he has probably never had time to celebrate. 

 

I thought about Castiel in the first half as well.

 

It's going to be interesting watching the writers pretend like he mattered at the end when the guy hasn't had a proper character arc in half a decade, and he's either not there or playing second fiddle to every recurring character or guest star since like season 10.

 

Every time I feel sad about Sam and Dean being soulless puppets propped up by untalented writers, I think of Castiel and then it instantly puts things into perspective.

Edited October 9, 2020 by BoxManLocke

[Lemuria]

1 hour ago, Bergamot said:

The most bizarre moment for me was when Mrs. Butters says to Dean, "But Jack killed your mother!". And Dean starts to respond, but he is distracted instead by the sight of the delicious sandwich which he has had to set aside because of Mrs. Butters' craziness, and he makes a sad, longing face at the sandwich. Haha, isn't he funny?  Because of course on "Supernatural: the Sitcom", Dean is incapable of concentrating for more than a second on the thought of his mother's death, not if there is a *tempting sandwich* waiting for him.

I had some quibbles (and one Jack the Savior big issue)--such as Sam=researching, Dean=apron--but this wasn't one of them.  Maybe I'm reading too much into the scene and into Dean's look, but it came across to me not that Dean was sad or longing just for the sandwich but more for what it represented:  a moment in time when for a while, some things went their way; when they laughed and had fun and celebrated holidays in a way they perhaps never had; when there was someone who took care of them (especially important, IMO, for Dean).  And sad because he should have known that things like this never really happen to them.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Lemuria
I have totally forgotten how to spell!

[Casseiopeia]

2 hours ago, Lemuria said:

WAIT!  She said that she was able to concoct, magically or otherwise, smoothies that basically took away Jack's power.  Would there be a way to do that to Chuck?  After all, Jack is supposed to be powerful enough to take Chuck on and win.

So  in other words they just made Jack redundant? 

[Jediknight]

4 hours ago, PAForrest said:

And it was fun to see Cuthbert again, one last time.

Carter and SARAH would be disappointed in him, though.  Deputy Andy took a dark turn.

[Terese]

5 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Yeah, that's what I assumed.

It was decent enough in that it's pretty clear Jeremy is probably their best writer - and he writes mostly fluffy stuff, but with a bit of bite. Of course, he is forced to adhere to Badd's game plan, which is Princess Jackie Poo Sue being all Suey and speshul. Like as much as we know Jeremy really likes Jensen and likes Dean, it really felt out of place for him to insert the obligatory "Dean is old" shtick, especially standing next to Sam when he doesn't look even a minute younger than Dean anymore. And Sam being Mrs. Butters' favorite, for no apparent reason (though at least she did tell him to cut his hair)? That's doesn't sound like Jeremy, that's all Berens and Badd.

But at least he allowed Dean to be smart enough to figure out how to get out of the room, and how to disable Mrs. Butters, even if only temporarily.

The whole holiday routine was pretty charming and sweet. But I immediately assumed there was something off about those smoothies.

OTOH, the constant harping on Princess Jackie Poo Sue being the only one who can save the world - on a show where he would never exist were it not for Dean and Sam who are the ones who should be saving the world - never ceases to grate. I have to hope the fact that they're pushing it so hard means when it comes down to it, it won't go according to plan. Otherwise, how boring to show your complete hand already - not that I wouldn't put it past Badd because, well, he is BAD, after all.

I like that Dean is still having problems with Jackie Poo Sue - because he should. But at the same time he's way too forgiving already, because that is Dean's lot in life. Seriously, this is the guy who should be spouting wings because he is a freaking saint. Definitely a better man than I would be.

I like the actress who played Mrs. Butters. She's pretty cute in anything I've ever seen her in. I also like that her character was powerful, obsessively over protective, but not really evil as much as led astray.

And it was fun to see Cuthbert again, one last time.

 

I liked Mrs. Butters fussing over her new family and had compassion from her instantly.

I am completely baffled by the complacency of the opening scene with Sam and Dean alerted to malfunctions in the bunker and don't go to their battle stations. Shouldn't they have perceived it as a threat; ghost, attack? You and I might think it is just the pipes; but for them it is always something else. 

Over all, this season has been so bizarre with lack of urgency or any concern about anything. They seem like they are regressing, as well, or the writing for them. They seem immature, whereas Jack is maturing. Is it necessary to demote Sam and Dean to place Jack in a favorable light? It feels as though Sam and Dean have stepped aside. They don't seem to have the interest or even energy to save the world. Have a beer, a burger and oh just let Jack handle it.

Dean couldn't be bothered, having seen nothing viewing through the interdimensional  gyroscope, to ask a follow up question when Mrs. Butters said that's not good? 

Yeah, yeah. Jack's the hero, but do Sam and Dean have to fade into the woodwork so that Jack can shine by comparison? To quote Crowley, "I am so glad the world is ending."

[7kstar]

5 hours ago, Bergamot said:

When the episode did try to take itself seriously for a moment, like the conversation about Dean's feelings about Jack, or the discussion about Jack being the one who will save the world, it was too jarring for me. I kept waiting for some kind of punchline to undercut the seriousness of those moments, like maybe the appearance of another tempting sandwich. They really should have just left out of the episode anything serious or real.

He did look at the sandwich as darn it, it was too good to be true.  He was happy and didn't want to let it end.  But reality had to crash into his life once again...so for that part I thought it worked.

They did allow Dean to figure out how to escape.  So there was one smart moment for him.

Like many others, I enjoyed the beginning.  I was like Dean waiting for the shoe to drop and well, it wasn't as bad as I had expected.  Half of the ep was okay.

8 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Doesn't that just sum up #Dabbernatural?

Dean: eat better

Sam: look better

Jack: save the world

How many more ways do they have to boost up the nougat baby? We get it. The Winchesters are not the heroes of their own story anymore. #Supernatural

They can't help themselves and we are just supposed to be so excited that we agree with them.  I will admit I missed a lot and I'll have to watch again to catch some of the things that have been mentioned.

 

8 hours ago, SueB said:

Favorite Parts:
- Ghostbuster montage.  With little Sam and Dean paper bags!
- Mrs Butters was generally a adorable (until she turned evil). I wish we could have kept her (of her own free will, of course)
- All the holidays - I wish Cas has gotten to share (but it might have made him happy)
- Sam still sees Eileen!!
- Deans honesty with Jack about Mary.  It’s not swept under the rug.  
-Learning what the table and the Telescope did. 
 

Other notes:

- I kind of like that Cuthbert’s ‘genius’ was really her magic for the big stuff.  
- I don’t want them to kill Amara.
- The antique cars work!!

it was just nice to see the boys ‘living the Dream ’ for a bit.   And she’s still an ally, that’s good. 

Yes, I'm glad she wasn't killed off and I wish it meant something that she is still out there, but I doubt we should think of her again for a few things.  Teaching Jack how bad he really was when he Killed Mary.  She was the mirror to Jack, I agree.

Sam and Dean are for hunting things and such but the big stuff is all Jack.

That no matter how bad it gets you need to take a moment to celebrate.

So I'm glad they didn't sweep it under the rug, but if you are going to mix something heavy hitting then tone down the comedy bits.  During the happy beginning sure you can go big but tone it down a little just before you go to the big moment.  I think it would more, at least that's my two sense as a Drama teacher who spent 31 years directing middle school kids.  I'll give the show a 4 to 5.  Half was enjoyable.

If they can make half enjoyable for the rest of the eps, I might just go out with a smile.  Expectations are low.

 

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, Frost said:

I enjoyed Mrs Butters.  Too bad she was dispatched back to the woods.  Wouldn't Grandpa Winchester be in that photo?

No. His initiation was fatally interrupted and he was never at the bunker.

2 hours ago, Terese said:

Dean couldn't be bothered, having seen nothing viewing through the interdimensional  gyroscope, to ask a follow up question when Mrs. Butters said that's not good? 

It's in character. He couldn't be bothered to ask what Cain meant when he said there was a price to taking the mark. He just said sounds great sign me up.

[Terese]

29 minutes ago, Katy M said:

No. His initiation was fatally interrupted and he was never at the bunker.

It's in character. He couldn't be bothered to ask what Cain meant when he said there was a price to taking the mark. He just said sounds great sign me up.

You're right. 

[ILoveReading]

Wasnt' there an episode where they turned the bunker up to full warding and something still got in?

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Wasnt' there an episode where they turned the bunker up to full warding and something still got in?

I don't know about "turning it up," but Larry said it was warded against any evil ever created and impervious to any entry except by the key, and that all seems to be a bunch of bs.

[Aeryn13]

37 minutes ago, Katy M said:

 

It's in character. He couldn't be bothered to ask what Cain meant when he said there was a price to taking the mark. He just said sounds great sign me up.

Back in First Born Dean was in a very different state of mind, one where he welcomed damnation almost. He isn't supposed to feel this way now so IMO it's just lazy writing and convenience.

Though I'm not even sure why that was supposed to be a thing. Dean and Sam know Chuck has been smashing his other toys. That's not exactly breaking news. Maybe they didn't know yet he was already down to just one but eh.

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, Terese said:

I liked Mrs. Butters fussing over her new family and had compassion from her instantly.

I am completely baffled by the complacency of the opening scene with Sam and Dean alerted to malfunctions in the bunker and don't go to their battle stations. Shouldn't they have perceived it as a threat; ghost, attack? You and I might think it is just the pipes; but for them it is always something else. 

Over all, this season has been so bizarre with lack of urgency or any concern about anything. They seem like they are regressing, as well, or the writing for them. They seem immature, whereas Jack is maturing. Is it necessary to demote Sam and Dean to place Jack in a favorable light? It feels as though Sam and Dean have stepped aside. They don't seem to have the interest or even energy to save the world. Have a beer, a burger and oh just let Jack handle it.

Dean couldn't be bothered, having seen nothing viewing through the interdimensional  gyroscope, to ask a follow up question when Mrs. Butters said that's not good? 

Yeah, yeah. Jack's the hero, but do Sam and Dean have to fade into the woodwork so that Jack can shine by comparison? To quote Crowley, "I am so glad the world is ending."

It was kind of Dean not to tell her that he killed Curhbert.

Well... I think it is a given that in the end they will go with one of Dean's plan B's if he is still allowed to have those. Jack's killing spree reminded me a lot of Jack following Duma.  This episode had a clear mirror between well meaning powerful misguided Mrs. BUTTERS protecting her FAMILY and following their life's wor.k,  MoL is a mirror for TFB and Jack who is protecting his family and following their life's work by saving the world/killing God. Both aren't human and lack the capacity to make clear distinctions between right and wrong and a false morality they have been taught to protect family and their mission.

My guess is that Dean will start thinking clearly and realize that they cannot just kill Amara. There has to be another way... there always is.

9 hours ago, Lemuria said:

Yep, all the other dimensions/alternate realities have been destroyed.

My thoughts.

[SueB]

I assumed Mrs Butters was from the fairy realm (wood nymph after all).  And they have a different kind of power.   I’m not sure Jack was neutered with just herbs.  Maybe. But then it’s a weakness potentially only seen in fairy-vision. 

[Castiels Cat]

8 hours ago, Bergamot said:

I wanted to enjoy this episode, because I have missed my show so much. Unfortunately, after watching the episode, I am still missing my show.

Remember in Changing Channels, when Dean and Sam were trapped inside a sitcom by the Trickster? This reminded me of that, except that instead of them being trapped inside a sitcom on the show, the whole show itself turned into a weird, cheesy sitcom. And we are supposed to believe that living inside "Supernatural: The Sitcom" makes Dean and Sam happy, and is in fact the fulfillment of their heart's desire. Because Dean gets to eat a lot of food and wear his cartoon nightgown. Haha, isn't he funny? And because Sam really wants to wear a silly party hat on his birthday, and to wear a sweater vest to go on a date with Eileen (but he has to make sure that he gets home early, haha!) I thought that it would turn out they were under some kind of spell, but nope, I guess not.

The most bizarre moment for me was when Mrs. Butters says to Dean, "But Jack killed your mother!". And Dean starts to respond, but he is distracted instead by the sight of the delicious sandwich which he has had to set aside because of Mrs. Butters' craziness, and he makes a sad, longing face at the sandwich. Haha, isn't he funny?  Because of course on "Supernatural: the Sitcom", Dean is incapable of concentrating for more than a second on the thought of his mother's death, not if there is a *tempting sandwich* waiting for him.

When the episode did try to take itself seriously for a moment, like the conversation about Dean's feelings about Jack, or the discussion about Jack being the one who will save the world, it was too jarring for me. I kept waiting for some kind of punchline to undercut the seriousness of those moments, like maybe the appearance of another tempting sandwich. They really should have just left out of the episode anything serious or real.

Okay, there was one moment that I did enjoy -- it was when they burst into the vampire's nest that first time, and the vampires were watching on TV the gothic vampire soap opera "Dark Shadows" from the 1960's.  I used to watch it after school every day. Hello Barnabas Collins!

I loved Dark Shadows too. I wrote a protest letter in crayon and received a reply from the VP of the network. They still cancelled it despite unprecedented negative response from fans.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Back in First Born Dean was in a very different state of mind, one where he welcomed damnation almost. He isn't supposed to feel this way now so IMO it's just lazy writing and convenience.

Though I'm not even sure why that was supposed to be a thing. Dean and Sam know Chuck has been smashing his other toys. That's not exactly breaking news. Maybe they didn't know yet he was already down to just one but eh.

Exactly. The two situations are nothing alike.  Dean was hurt, guilt-ridden and desperate to kill Abaddon at any cost. And they alrready know from Billie that Chuck is destroying worlds, so Butters' observation that it wasn't 'good' isn't exactly a revelation to them. 

IMO they included the telescope in this episode for fan service. Ticking off a box on the list of questions to answer before the end, in the laziest way possible. 

[Castiels Cat]

5 minutes ago, SueB said:

I assumed Mrs Butters was from the fairy realm (wood nymph after all).  And they have a different kind of power.   I’m not sure Jack was neutered with just herbs.  Maybe. But then it’s a weakness potentially only seen in fairy-vision. 

Wouldn't it have been a nice callback if Dean was marked by his trip to the fairy realm or even marked as property of Oberon? And she could see it...

Edited October 9, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

I assumed Mrs Butters was from the fairy realm (wood nymph after all).  And they have a different kind of power.   I’m not sure Jack was neutered with just herbs.  Maybe. But then it’s a weakness potentially only seen in fairy-vision. 

But wouldn't it have at least made sense for them to ask if it would have any effect on Chuck? Or if, with her incredible power, she might be able to help defeat him in other ways, besides packing them lunches to go? Certainly worse than not asking about the telescope when they already know that answer. 

[Castiels Cat]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But wouldn't it have at least made sense for them to ask if it would have any effect on Chuck? Or if, with her incredible power, she might be able to help defeat him in other ways, besides packing them lunches to go? Certainly worse than not asking about the telescope when they already know that answer. 

Yeah... thought crossed my mind... but why when Just Jack does everything?

[Katy M]

19 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

It was kind of Dean not to tell her that he killed Curhbert.

Or did he just not want her to kill him in revenge?

[Aeryn13]

11 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Exactly. The two situations are nothing alike.  Dean was hurt, guilt-ridden and desperate to kill Abaddon at any cost. And they alrready know from Billie that Chuck is destroying worlds, so Butters' observation that it wasn't 'good' isn't exactly a revelation to them. 

IMO they included the telescope in this episode for fan service. Ticking off a box on the list of questions to answer before the end, in the laziest way possible. 

I thought the telescope was another hilarious "back door to hell in Purgatory" situation.

Season 6 - Crowley spends the entire Season trying to find a way into Purgatory

Season 8 - could have just gone through the door in his own backyard

Now we have:

Season 13 - OMG, is Ice!Mary okay in the AU world, we need to fiiiiind her

Season 15 - look through your godamn telescope and you can see how little she misses you

Ahahahaha.

[PAForrest]

8 hours ago, Bergamot said:

I wanted to enjoy this episode, because I have missed my show so much. Unfortunately, after watching the episode, I am still missing my show.

........

Okay, there was one moment that I did enjoy -- it was when they burst into the vampire's nest that first time, and the vampires were watching on TV the gothic vampire soap opera "Dark Shadows" from the 1960's.  I used to watch it after school every day. Hello Barnabas Collins!

 

Okay, second attempt. Site crashed on me as I was trying to post something. Hope it works this time.

Anyway, as much as I enjoyed seeing Dean and Sam Winchester again after all these months, no it's not the same show. The whole world is weak and superficial, and it's sad that the Winchesters just don't factor in anymore. I do think Jeremy Adams is the best addition to the show this season, but given the rock bottom plummet in quality, that's not saying much. But he'll do well almost anywhere else.

I did love the Dark Shadows easter egg, though. I was such a huge fan when I was in high school. Rushed home every afternoon after school so I could watch it. Highlight of my day!

I wondered about those two vamps, though. They didn't seem to be hurting anyone, and were using blood bags. I thought the Winchesters might eventually realize that the monster radar was too cut and dried and not taking other factors into play in terms of hunting. Plus, the MoL never hunted - they only observed. Mrs. Butters should have known that. Then again, she was probably going by what Cuthbert taught her about monsters since he was the only one who wanted to get involved.

4 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Carter and SARAH would be disappointed in him, though.  Deputy Andy took a dark turn.

Deputy Andy went all Walter White, for sure. LOL! Oh Eureka, I miss you.

3 hours ago, Terese said:

Is it necessary to demote Sam and Dean to place Jack in a favorable light? It feels as though Sam and Dean have stepped aside. They don't seem to have the interest or even energy to save the world. Have a beer, a burger and oh just let Jack handle it.

Dean couldn't be bothered, having seen nothing viewing through the interdimensional  gyroscope, to ask a follow up question when Mrs. Butters said that's not good? 

Yeah, yeah. Jack's the hero, but do Sam and Dean have to fade into the woodwork so that Jack can shine by comparison? To quote Crowley, "I am so glad the world is ending."

As we've said before, the fact that Badd et. al. have gone to such huge lengths - the most effort they've put into this show - just to make the Winchesters entirely irrelevant, to have no stake or purpose in the story line at all, was probably the #1 factor in the Js calling it quits. I imagine if they really do decide to do that 6-episode mini reunion in the near future, Dean and Sam will become quite relevant again, become the heroes again that they're supposed to be.

Edited October 9, 2020 by PAForrest

[Katy M]

25 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I thought the telescope was another hilarious "back door to hell in Purgatory" situation.

Season 6 - Crowley spends the entire Season trying to find a way into Purgatory

Season 8 - could have just gone through the door in his own backyard

Now we have:

Season 13 - OMG, is Ice!Mary okay in the AU world, we need to fiiiiind her

Season 15 - look through your godamn telescope and you can see how little she misses you

Ahahahaha.

Not to mention that this means the MOLs knew about all the AUs all along but never wrote it down anywhere.  Makes sense for a group of people called the Men of Letters.

[wlk68]

Random thought: A lot of time has passed since Mrs. Butters has been back to her wood. I can't but wonder if she'll find that the whole thing has been plowed under and now there's a shopping mall or a housing development on that spot.

[Terese]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I assumed Mrs Butters was from the fairy realm (wood nymph after all).  And they have a different kind of power.   I’m not sure Jack was neutered with just herbs.  Maybe. But then it’s a weakness potentially only seen in fairy-vision. 

From Clap If You Believe, it was established that Faeries live in another dimension and could have power that even may have been able to retrieve Sam's souland didn't even acknowledge Lucifer as concerning. Although, that could have just been boasting, I believed him based on what we were shown and his demeanor.

[Katy M]

29 minutes ago, Terese said:

From Clap If You Believe, it was established that Faeries live in another dimension and could have power that even may have been able to retrieve Sam's souland didn't even acknowledge Lucifer as concerning. Although, that could have just been boasting, I believed him based on what we were shown and his demeanor.

She did manage to subdue an archnephilim.  I'd call that pretty powerful.  What I don't get (other than plot purposes) is why she didn't just go ahead and kill Jack herself.  Or Jack and Dean once Dean took a pass.

[SueB]

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

She did manage to subdue an archnephilim.  I'd call that pretty powerful.  What I don't get (other than plot purposes) is why she didn't just go ahead and kill Jack herself.  Or Jack and Dean once Dean took a pass.

She certainly seemed capable.  Maybe she instinctively knew one of the boys had to do it or they might turn on her.  She wanted to convince Sam rather than ‘give up’ on him.  
 

if the show wasn’t ending I’d think there would be lots of potential with her character in the future. 

[Bergamot]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

Anyway, as much as I enjoyed seeing Dean and Sam Winchester again after all these months, no it's not the same show. The whole world is weak and superficial, and it's sad that the Winchesters just don't factor in anymore.

Yes, they don't even pretend any more to be telling a story about the Winchesters. Dean and Sam are just secondary characters who are there to support Jack's story.

2 hours ago, PAForrest said:

I did love the Dark Shadows easter egg, though. I was such a huge fan when I was in high school. Rushed home every afternoon after school so I could watch it. Highlight of my day!

It makes me happy that there are other people who remember watching Dark Shadows! In retrospect, it was very cheesy, but back then I loved it. (Quentin the werewolf! Angelique the witch! And of course Barnabas.) I guess we were fans of supernatural genre shows from the beginning!  😊

[Katy M]

11 minutes ago, SueB said:

She certainly seemed capable.  Maybe she instinctively knew one of the boys had to do it or they might turn on her.  She wanted to convince Sam rather than ‘give up’ on him.  
 

if the show wasn’t ending I’d think there would be lots of potential with her character in the future. 

I would have killed them and then told Sam that Jack killed Dean and she killed Jack trying to keep him from killing Dean.  He did kill Mary in a moment of annoyance. Not that far-fetched.

[Affogato]

12 hours ago, Frost said:

 

Was there any reason for Mrs Butters to like Sam best?  I thought that came out of nowhere.

Swears less. Eats healthier food. Less pushy. The usual. Sam is a ‘good boy’.