S05.E17: Keep It Together

[BitterApple]

NikSak, thank you for sharing your story, I appreciate your insight.

I just hope Cory's denial doesn't eventually affect Ali's self-esteem. I think he views ordering a wheelchair as "giving up" when in reality it's simply a tool to make Ali's life easier.

WhitneyWhit, I don't know who the hell pissed in Javi's Cheerios, but he needs a serious attitude adjustment.

[NikSac]

They kept repeating the "when you fall, you get back up" mantra, and I wasn't sure if they meant this literally or metaphorically? Because Ali's going to get to a point where she falls and can't get up. Do they know that? Isn't she going to feel like a failure when this happens?

 

Exactly!  I cringe every time they say this. I feel she needs to know she's loved and accepted even if at some point she truly CAN'T get back up.

[Universalhunter]

Yeah, I can't fault Leah or Corey for the way they're handling Ali. I think both their responses are valid ones and they're both good parents trying to figure out how to adjust. It's a situation with no perfect solution. It's impossible to be a perfect parent to a child with no issues at all, so I can't imagine how impossible it is with a child with Ali's condition.

I think if it were me, I'd encourage her to try things, but not discourage her if she can't (like the "get back up" thing), and mostly focus on the positive things she can do rather than telling her she can do anything. But I have no idea what I'd do in actuality.

I got the impression that they aren't sure how fast she's going to deteriorate, since the doctor said there were only a handful of cases and none of the documented cases were childhood onset, so they want to have the wheelchair always ready. Corey seems to think that once they get it they have to use it immediately, and that's not true. It'd just already be there when she does need it.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Universalhunter

[LotusFlower]

Exactly!  I cringe every time they say this. I feel she needs to know she's loved and accepted even if at some point she truly CAN'T get back up.

Right. And I feel like all these issues are magnified for Ali by having a twin sister right next to her - a young girl her exact age, size, etc., doing things she *wants* to do but can't, or getting right back up after she falls.... I think Leah and Corey would be wise to realize this, and figure out how to address the differences between the sisters in a way that's positive, instead of her feeling like she's failed if she can't get back up. And telling her she can do anything so long as she puts her mind to it is not only stupid, but patently wrong.

[wrestlesflamingos]

I'm sure Tammy Wynette struggles with those questions too.  Given her communication and observation skills, she's probably going to do a middling job managing Ali's self esteem and confidence. That's part of what Ali has to overcome. I tend to believe their probably isn't any perfect way to raise a child that's different.

[LotusFlower]

I'm not sure what to think about Chelsea's issue with her esthetician's license. Frankly, I don't see what she did as a big deal. I'm a bit of anarchist, I'll admit, so I'm not huge on rules. But I just don't see what the problem is with someone having you do makeup for their wedding.

Well, if manicurists/pedicurists need to have a license, I guess it's the same thing. Maybe it's an issue of standards, or of cleanliness or safety. I'm guessing there's also the issue of money and professionalism. If you're a licensed fill-in-the-blank, then customers have assurance you know what you're doing, and you have the right to charge your fee based on your board-certified skills. So there's protection for both sides. But the system breaks down if you pretend you did the service as a friend and take money under the table. Plus, there's the matter of Uncle Sam.....

[NikSac]

UniversalHunter I don't mean to sound critical of them, if I did. They're very young and dealing with such a hard situation. I shared my story mostly to explain how it felt from a kid's perspective, how my family approached it (generally), and how it could possibly be handled well for Ali.

[Universalhunter]

UniversalHunter I don't mean to sound critical of them, if I did. They're very young and dealing with such a hard situation. I shared my story mostly to explain how it felt from a kid's perspective, how my family approached it (generally), and how it could possibly be handled well for Ali.

Oh I didn't think that at all. I was just kinda rambling about my thoughts, not particularly in direct response to you :) thanks for sharing though, it gives a much better understanding.

[Jellowslr]

There are so many wrong things in this episode I could write a novel....I will just point out this one gem:

Jenelle and/or Nathan own a yellow Hummer? Once the Mtv money is gone she won't be able to afford gas in that beast. It will make a nice planter in the lawn or a jungle gym for their boys to play on.

[StatisticalOutlier]

He claimed the other couple went through a green light (?) and rammed into him. However, if that was the case, why would they ticket Adam for anything?

 

I'm pretty sure he was driving without a license and without insurance, and he would get tickets for those no matter who was at fault, or even if there hadn't been a wreck but he got pulled over for something else.

 

I'd be interested to know who hit whom and who had a green light, though.  And how fast Adam was going.

 

 

So Nathan is going to jail, has 3 DUI's and a suspended license, and still thinks he did nothing wrong during his arrest. Kudos to his lawyer for telling him not only that he's an asshole, but that everything is due to his drinking.

 

Yeah, he was okay with copping a plea on all that other stuff, but the ONE thing that was captured on video for all the world to see--he wants to fight that one.  Because I'm sure he doesn't think he did anything wrong.  I did like Jenelle's look when the lawyer was chewing him out.  You know, because she's clean as a whistle.

 

He sort of scared me in the scene where they were telling Barbara the sex of the baby, and she said "Boy oh boy oh boy" or something.  He leaned way forward and was laughing crazy and had his eyes bugging out.  Total over-reaction. 

 

And when he dons his sweater vest, it just gives me the creeps because he seems like he's having to hold himself back from something.  Maybe it's like Jenelle and her court heels.  I don't know.  They're both ridiculous, and dangerous.

[purpleflowers]

I think Isaac seems so sweet and smart! What a great little kid, and definitely observant, so I hope Kail and Javi arguing around him doesn't escalate. 

 

Barbara cracks me up. I loved when they said the new baby's name is going to be Kaiser, and she said "Oh, like the beer!"

 

I truly hope Jace will somehow manage to be happy and well-adjusted in this unstable situation.  Somehow. 

 

I can see that Ali is a smart kid and I think she's observant enough to be aware that she has a physical disability. I hope she is able to thrive and realize her own unique set of skills and talents. 

Edited July 18, 2014 by purpleflowers

[mrsh]

I'm a long time lurker from TWOP, and finally decided to register here. I have to say I can't stand Kail and for the most part consider her to be a whiny, bossy beast. I always felt sorry for Javi getting stuck with her when he seemed like such a nice guy, but this episode really showed that they're cut from the same cloth. Mighty Mouse is really rubbing me the wrong way with his smug little smile when Isaac was saying he didn't want to go with Jo. Obviously he doesn't realize that the handoffs might be hard on Isaac, instead he sits there looking triumphant and doesn't even have enough courtesy to at least say "Hey, come on in" to his step son's father. Also, the look Javi gave to Jo when Jo told Isaac "you want me to take mommy with us?" I think Javi knows there's still some feelings from Kail toward Jo or he's just very insecure in his marriage. I think in the end Kail and Javi will stay together, not because they have a healthy marriage but because they won't want to admit they rushed things and made a mistake.

[Ladystardust]

Jenelle's lack of emotion when thinking about her kid possibly going into foster care if she goes to jail was just amazing. And scary. I also feel like we see more segments with Janelle's and her boyfriend/fiance/husband of week's lawyers than we do of her and Jace.

 

I love seeing how much Jo has grown up. He's come a long way (he was SUCH an asshole teenager) and it really shows how petty Kail is when he is so respectful and polite when he comes to pick up Isaac. Not to mention his lack of fighting or arguing over picking Isaac up at Javi's parent's house. Imagine if Kail had to pick him up at Vee's parent's. 

[DonnaMartin]

Is Barb now caring for another little boy full time? Seems like he's always there.

[Turquoise]

I cracked up when Nathan's attorney called him an asshole.

Leah's make-up and hair looked horrible when she and Corey made the exchange.

I was coming here to say the same thing! Maybe Chelsea went to West Virginia to fix her up? Hopefully she didn't get paid to do it...wouldn't want her license withheld over THAT mess.

[kira28]

 

Yeah, Kail actually didn't annoy me at all in this episode, but Javi... I did not understand at all why he had such a stick up his ass about her asking him to watch the kids while she ran to the store. She was right, it was late and the trip would take a lot longer if she took Lincoln. Just watch your kid, Javi. You're his parent.

 

I'm shocked that I agree with this because I hate Kail with a passion. I always thought Javi was such a nice guy and wondered why he wanted to marry a shrew like Kail. But Javi is just a shitty little bitch who deserves Kail. I bet during one of their fights Kail let it slip that Jo has a much bigger dick than Javi because otherwise I don't understand why he can't even be man enough to mumble hello to Jo. How rude. Issac kept saying things about don't raise your voice again stop yelling stop fighting so I'm sure that is all Javi and Kail do. I felt sorry for Kail and actually wanted her to smash Javis head in when he whined about having to take care of his own kid. Sounds like he does NONE of the work. He could have offered to run to Wal-mart. Kail was putting Issac to  bed before she left so technically Javi would only be taking care of one kid. What a loser.

 

And speaking of losers how is it that Janelle once again is never punished for anything? talk about life being unfair! Chelsea maybe got paid for doing makeup at a wedding and they won't give her her license but Adam is driving with no license no insurance ha 2 DUIs and almost kills an elderly couple and gets away scott free. And Nathan has 3 Duis and resisted arrest and gets 30 days in jail and that's it? And Janelle has years of criminal history but has spent what two days in jail? I didn't even know you couldn't accept money for doing someone's make up. Hell, I had my prom makeup done by a girl I went to school with. She was no licensed cosmetologist. Same with my sister's wedding. One of her friends did everyone's hair and make u and was paid $30 a person. She wasn't licensed to do anything. She was a teacher. She was just good at doing hair and makeup.

 

Nothing to say about Leah except she looked hideous.

[ghoulina]

Well, if manicurists/pedicurists need to have a license, I guess it's the same thing. Maybe it's an issue of standards, or of cleanliness or safety. I'm guessing there's also the issue of money and professionalism. If you're a licensed fill-in-the-blank, then customers have assurance you know what you're doing, and you have the right to charge your fee based on your board-certified skills. So there's protection for both sides. But the system breaks down if you pretend you did the service as a friend and take money under the table. Plus, there's the matter of Uncle Sam.....

 

Yea, I guess I just feel if a bride-to-be KNOWS you don't have a license and wants to take that risk, that's her money and her choice. I didn't really think about the whole being paid under the table aspect, because I would think it's such a minor amount of money. But I guess if you did it on a regular basis? Anyhow, I'm no fan of the IRS, so my view is very clouded. But it just seemed like such a petty thing for her to be in trouble over. 

[Chicken Wing]

Was Chelsea promoting herself as "Chelsea Houska of Whatever-The-Place-Is-Called Spa" and operating under that "brand" without her license? I'm not getting what the big deal is. I didn't realize you could get in trouble with the Department of Labor for performing a task that plenty of people do without it being their actual job. Performing, say, dental work without a license? By all means, please call the state board, and hurry. But applying wedding makeup? You need to call the state over makeup? Were she and Landon doing microdermabrasions on the bridal party, too?

 

There must be a lot more to this story than they're caring to show. I can't really believe that the Department of Labor would hold her in violation of whatever and withhold her license because of a random claim on a social media site.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Chicken Wing

[ktwo]

I cracked up when Nathan's attorney called him an asshole.

Leah's make-up and hair looked horrible when she and Corey made the exchange.

Luciano, those two things were my exact first takeaways after finally watching the episode this morning. Leah from the neck up in that scene is exactly how I picture the title character in Reba McIntyre's song "Fancy." And Dog bless that lawyer for calling Nathan an asshole.

What happened to Jenelle's other lawyer? The guy? And how can she and Nathan have the same lawyer when they are bound to press charges against each other at some point?

[MPF54]

What happened to Jenelle's other lawyer? The guy?

Jenelle and Nathan live in South Carolina now, so they needed a SC lawyer. Dustin is her North Carolina lawyer. Lol.

[kira28]

I had to laugh in the voice over in the beginning with Janelle about how being a teen mom is so hard to begin with and the fact that her mother has custody of Jace makes it even harder on Janelle. Janelle is  not raising Jace, she has nothing to do with him. She's like a drugged out big sister that takes him a few times a month to do fun things with him. Instead of buying a Hummer she should be paying all of Jace's expenses AND paying Barb to take  care of him. I fear for baby Kaiser. Jace's life is going to look like Disneyland compared to the shit that poor kid is going to see and experience. Keefer  was pretty harmless. Yeah he was a druggie and a leech that latched onto Janelle for her money but I don't remember him every choking her out which it seems every boyfriend she has does, Courtland, Gary now Nathan. But  Nathan is a clone of Janelle, same dead eyed stare, same way of manipulating people, same waste of skin under his fancy suits and "court heels".  Who gets dressed up like they are going to a job interview to go to some sleazy sonogram place? I really would not be surprised if Janelle and Nathan torture or kill someone one day just because they were bored.

[Chicken Wing]

Jenelle and Nathan live in South Carolina now, so they needed a SC lawyer. Dustin is her North Carolina lawyer. Lol.

 

Hey, some people collect stamps...

[LotusFlower]

Yea, I guess I just feel if a bride-to-be KNOWS you don't have a license and wants to take that risk, that's her money and her choice. I didn't really think about the whole being paid under the table aspect, because I would think it's such a minor amount of money. But I guess if you did it on a regular basis? Anyhow, I'm no fan of the IRS, so my view is very clouded. But it just seemed like such a petty thing for her to be in trouble over.

It's not an issue if you use or even hire a non-licensed friend or whomever to perform a service. It's only because Chelsea has a license (or applied for one?) that made her allegedly paid job at the wedding a no-no. I guess having a license comes with responsibilities, so you get penalized for violating any rules.

  

Jenelle and Nathan live in South Carolina now, so they needed a SC lawyer. Dustin is her North Carolina lawyer. Lol.

This just made me laugh!

[MPF54]

Did you guys see the bong sitting on the side of jenelles tub during one of her scenes from Wednesdays premiere? Saw the screen shot over on teenmomjunkies. the best part is she's clearly pregnant in the scene. She said on twitter it was "just a vase". Lol yeah cuz people put vases on the side of their tub. And flower vases totally have stems and are bong shaped.

Edited July 19, 2014 by MPF54

[Brooklynista]

Do you guys remember the serial killer couple, Paul Bernardo and Tammy Homolka?  Nice looking couple, looked really all-American (Canadian actually).  They got off on killing women together.  She even helped him rape a few.

 

I just get the same vibe from Janelle and Nathan.  He seems like he has a quiet rage and she's already dead behind the eyes.  I could see them on a killing spree, just laughing along the way.

 

They already have a crack legal team that seems to always get them off the hook.

[Chicken Wing]

crack legal team

 

Pun intended?

[Brooklynista]

Not intentionally. But look how that works!. Ha

[animalnurse]

I work with a young woman who has just finshed her residency in a veterinary radiology program. She has a limb difference that would stop most people from even trying vet school. But her parents raised her to stop and think "this is how everyone else does this task, now how am I going to do it?" It's not exactly the same as Ali's situation but I thought it was a positive, yet realistic attitude to instill.

 

Watching the show though, I get the impression that Ali's biggest challenge might be being so much smarter than everyone who's supposed to be caring for her. And I say that as a Cory fan.

[Brooklynista]

Ali really is the smartest one in the room with that clan. I thought the reason Leah asked Ali about her ailment was so Ali could explain it to the folks at the table.

[StatisticalOutlier]

Watching the show though, I get the impression that Ali's biggest challenge might be being so much smarter than everyone who's supposed to be caring for her. And I say that as a Cory fan.

 

They all seem like ignorant hicks to me.  And sometimes it's hard to differentiate between ignorance and stupidity, so I try to give them a little benefit of the doubt, but it's kind of hard.  Are y'all sure you aren't being fooled by Ali's glasses?  Maybe she's going all Rick Perry on us.

[NikSac]

I work with a young woman who has just finshed her residency in a veterinary radiology program. She has a limb difference that would stop most people from even trying vet school. But her parents raised her to stop and think "this is how everyone else does this task, now how am I going to do it?" It's not exactly the same as Ali's situation but I thought it was a positive, yet realistic attitude to instill.

 

Watching the show though, I get the impression that Ali's biggest challenge might be being so much smarter than everyone who's supposed to be caring for her. And I say that as a Cory fan.

 

I so agree!  I wrote about my physical limitations before, and that's exactly right - I approach it with this is how everyone else does it, how do I do it?  I would hate to see anyone discourage her from doing something but I'd also hate to see her feel bad for not doing something that she really truly can't do. She seems so smart. I hope she can keep that working for her.

[lilmarysunshine]

Add my voice to the "Javi is an Ass" chorus.

 

I am not a fan of Kail. Far from it. He was being totally unreasonable when he suggested Kail take the baby to Walmart. Are you effin' kidding me, dude?  My kids are older but I *clearly* remember, as a stay-at-home-mom stuck at home all day with kids, how liberating a solo trip ANYWHERE was. It is 3 times as hard to drag a baby around as to just go alone. Plus, she has been complaining about being stuck with kids in the house. Again, can't stand Kail but that is a very common complaint amongst stay-at-home parents of very young children!  What would it hurt him to bathe Isaac while caring for Lincoln (who is as cute as he can be) so she could just run to the store then?  Stick the baby in a bouncy seat in the bathroom. I think he was just being lazy and it was not about bonding with Isaac. He says that because the older kid is way easier to take care of than the baby.

 

Do not blame Kail for ragging on him for that stuff. Not one tiny bit!  And I hate to be on Team Kail.

[HeySandyStrange]

Finally caught up with the mess that is this show.  Same old, same old.

 

 

Watching the show though, I get the impression that Ali's biggest challenge might be being so much smarter than everyone who's supposed to be caring for her. And I say that as a Cory fan.

 

I mostly agree with this, except I think an honorable mention needs to go Cory's handsome dad.  Not saying he is an intelligence powerhouse but on top of being a loving grandpa he struck me in the past as having a decent amount of common sense. He's given some decent counsel to Cory before, anyway.  Ali is a very smart little girl and I really hope she can achieve some great things.

 

I also have to climb on the Javi was an ass train, which pisses me off b/c I've defended him in the past.  He was acting like a spoiled child about watching his own child. Then again, I shouldn't be so surprised because I got the impression he is the youngest boy from a big family.  I also don't see how a toddler is easier then a baby.  I have found the opposite to be true, seeing as how babies as young as Lincoln mostly eat/sleep/ and want to be held and that's about it. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by HeySandyStrange

[lilmarysunshine]

Isaac is 4, not really a toddler. Preschoolers go to school. They get in line and wait their turns. You can reason with them to a degree. Much harder with an infant who can cry for an hour and you don't know what's wrong. At least that's how it was with my 3 kids. Kail mentioned Javi doesn't know how to handle Lincoln. That he thinks every time he cries he's hungry (and since she's nursing I guess that means passing him off to her) and thinks all he has to do is sit around holding him as she mentioned he never thinks to get up and walk around with him. Infants aren't typically that easy. Sometimes they are very difficult to deal with and fussy.

Edited July 19, 2014 by lilmarysunshine

[mrsh]

Javi comes off as a lazy parent if he won't even bother to watch his own child for an hour. I get that he's the youngest and maybe in his family the womenfolk were in charge of all child care, but that's no excuse. My husband's family is the same way and yet when our daughter was born he jumped in and helped with her as soon as she was born. As a man and a good father, that's what you do. Seems to me that Javi wanted to have a child with Kail to make his mark so he and Jo could be even. Now the baby is here and he doesn't want to do anything. I despise Kail but if she had gone hulk smash on Javi at that moment I would have cheered. Overall, they are both despicable people, I hope eventually Isaac is able to go live full time with Jo and escape that mess.

[mooncakes]

I don't know how to quote here yet... so I'll just paste instead. :)

"Also, the look Javi gave to Jo when Jo told Isaac "you want me to take mommy with us?" I think Javi knows there's still some feelings from Kail toward Jo or he's just very insecure in his marriage."

I saw that differently. Jo said that he wanted to take Kail along *in the trunk*. I got the impression he was referencing knocking her out and throwing her in the trunk, and talking trash while intending it to go over Isaac's head. Kind of like in that Eminem song from way back. Jo does strike me as the kind of smug person to make little comments like that - just like the "hope your water breaks tonight" comment from last season. I'm pretty sure Javi took that as a veiled threat (or joking about it) to his wife. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I thought it was a little messed up too. I don't know if Kail took it the same way, but if she did she did a good job controlling her temper. Or maybe she was flattered because it went over her head too, and she thought it was an innocent comment about Jo wanting her to go with him. Again, I'm not sure how JO meant it, but I'm pretty sure that JAVI took it like that, so I understood his "wtf" look towards Jo.

But he was a pretty big jerk the rest of the episode. And I'm usually a Javi fan... mostly.

Also... more on the Javi thing... I love my husband but it wasn't until baby #3 came along that he was a "good" dad to a newborn. He loved the older two as well, but he just didn't *get* that he actually had to step up and take care of them, and how hard that was. He did one or two things, and in his mind he was done. In Javi's mind, it probably seemed fair. "Well, both of us had long days 'working', and now there's two kids to take care of, so it wouldn't be fair to Kail if she got to go alone and I had to take care of both her child and the new baby. It'll be more fair, and easier for both of us, if we each do one on one." When really... it doesn't work like that at all. If for NO OTHER REASON, it makes no sense to take an infant out in public during cold/flu season. If you have to, you have to, but why do that unnecessarily? And while working at a job is stressful, studies show that stay-at-home parents are MORE stressed and have LESS free time through the day than working parents. There is no mandated lunch break at home, and kids even follow you to the bathroom. I can't think of one "outside" job where you can't even use the facilities by yourself. Sometimes you just need that half hour break to refresh. Now my husband is great with sharing duties, but even he needed experience. This is Javi's first baby, and he's young, and he's probably honestly not mature enough to fully get it. I totally side with Kail, obviously, but Javi can still redeem himself. (Unless Kail kicks him to the curb like the previews hint at.)

[mrsh]

I don't know how to quote here yet... so I'll just paste instead. :)

"Also, the look Javi gave to Jo when Jo told Isaac "you want me to take mommy with us?" I think Javi knows there's still some feelings from Kail toward Jo or he's just very insecure in his marriage."

I saw that differently. Jo said that he wanted to take Kail along *in the trunk*. I got the impression he was referencing knocking her out and throwing her in the trunk, and talking trash while intending it to go over Isaac's head. Kind of like in that Eminem song from way back. Jo does strike me as the kind of smug person to make little comments like that - just like the "hope your water breaks tonight" comment from last season. I'm pretty sure Javi took that as a veiled threat (or joking about it) to his wife. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I thought it was a little messed up too. I don't know if Kail took it the same way, but if she did she did a good job controlling her temper. Or maybe she was flattered because it went over her head too, and she thought it was an innocent comment about Jo wanting her to go with him. Again, I'm not sure how JO meant it, but I'm pretty sure that JAVI took it like that, so I understood his "wtf" look towards Jo.

But he was a pretty big jerk the rest of the episode. And I'm usually a Javi fan... mostly.

Also... more on the Javi thing... I love my husband but it wasn't until baby #3 came along that he was a "good" dad to a newborn. He loved the older two as well, but he just didn't *get* that he actually had to step up and take care of them, and how hard that was. He did one or two things, and in his mind he was done. In Javi's mind, it probably seemed fair. "Well, both of us had long days 'working', and now there's two kids to take care of, so it wouldn't be fair to Kail if she got to go alone and I had to take care of both her child and the new baby. It'll be more fair, and easier for both of us, if we each do one on one." When really... it doesn't work like that at all. If for NO OTHER REASON, it makes no sense to take an infant out in public during cold/flu season. If you have to, you have to, but why do that unnecessarily? And while working at a job is stressful, studies show that stay-at-home parents are MORE stressed and have LESS free time through the day than working parents. There is no mandated lunch break at home, and kids even follow you to the bathroom. I can't think of one "outside" job where you can't even use the facilities by yourself. Sometimes you just need that half hour break to refresh. Now my husband is great with sharing duties, but even he needed experience. This is Javi's first baby, and he's young, and he's probably honestly not mature enough to fully get it. I totally side with Kail, obviously, but Javi can still redeem himself. (Unless Kail kicks him to the curb like the previews hint at.)

[Chicken Wing]

I saw that differently. Jo said that he wanted to take Kail along *in the trunk*. I got the impression he was referencing knocking her out and throwing her in the trunk, and talking trash while intending it to go over Isaac's head. Kind of like in that Eminem song from way back. Jo does strike me as the kind of smug person to make little comments like that - just like the "hope your water breaks tonight" comment from last season. I'm pretty sure Javi took that as a veiled threat (or joking about it) to his wife. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I thought it was a little messed up too. I don't know if Kail took it the same way, but if she did she did a good job controlling her temper. Or maybe she was flattered because it went over her head too, and she thought it was an innocent comment about Jo wanting her to go with him. Again, I'm not sure how JO meant it, but I'm pretty sure that JAVI took it like that, so I understood his "wtf" look towards Jo.

 

I don't think Jo meant it that way at all. Isaac was whining and carrying on about not wanting to leave his mommy, and Jo jokingly offered to bring her along like luggage. Personally I thought it was funny. I don't think there was any connotation whatsoever about it being about taking Kail "away" from Javi, or about Jo wanting her to be with him. It had nothing to do with him. I don't even think Javi thought of it that way; he just looked the same way he did the entire time Jo was there, like he was just mentally counting down the seconds until Jo left. I don't think any of them read into it as anything more than a goofy joke, because that's all it was. Kind of like how a parent "threatens" to strap one of the kids to the roof of the car when they won't stop fighting in the backseat. It was completely harmless.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Chicken Wing

[mrsh]

I don't know how to quote here yet... so I'll just paste instead. :)

"Also, the look Javi gave to Jo when Jo told Isaac "you want me to take mommy with us?" I think Javi knows there's still some feelings from Kail toward Jo or he's just very insecure in his marriage."

I saw that differently. Jo said that he wanted to take Kail along *in the trunk*. I got the impression he was referencing knocking her out and throwing her in the trunk, and talking trash while intending it to go over Isaac's head. Kind of like in that Eminem song from way back. Jo does strike me as the kind of smug person to make little comments like that - just like the "hope your water breaks tonight" comment from last season. I'm pretty sure Javi took that as a veiled threat (or joking about it) to his wife. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I thought it was a little messed up too. I don't know if Kail took it the same way, but if she did she did a good job controlling her temper. Or maybe she was flattered because it went over her head too, and she thought it was an innocent comment about Jo wanting her to go with him. Again, I'm not sure how JO meant it, but I'm pretty sure that JAVI took it like that, so I understood his "wtf" look towards Jo.

But he was a pretty big jerk the rest of the episode. And I'm usually a Javi fan... mostly.

Also... more on the Javi thing... I love my husband but it wasn't until baby #3 came along that he was a "good" dad to a newborn. He loved the older two as well, but he just didn't *get* that he actually had to step up and take care of them, and how hard that was. He did one or two things, and in his mind he was done. In Javi's mind, it probably seemed fair. "Well, both of us had long days 'working', and now there's two kids to take care of, so it wouldn't be fair to Kail if she got to go alone and I had to take care of both her child and the new baby. It'll be more fair, and easier for both of us, if we each do one on one." When really... it doesn't work like that at all. If for NO OTHER REASON, it makes no sense to take an infant out in public during cold/flu season. If you have to, you have to, but why do that unnecessarily? And while working at a job is stressful, studies show that stay-at-home parents are MORE stressed and have LESS free time through the day than working parents. There is no mandated lunch break at home, and kids even follow you to the bathroom. I can't think of one "outside" job where you can't even use the facilities by yourself. Sometimes you just need that half hour break to refresh. Now my husband is great with sharing duties, but even he needed experience. This is Javi's first baby, and he's young, and he's probably honestly not mature enough to fully get it. I totally side with Kail, obviously, but Javi can still redeem himself. (Unless Kail kicks him to the curb like the previews hint at.)

I don't think Jo meant it that way at all. It seems that Jo has matured since the beginning of this show, at first he would argue with Kail, call her names etc and now he seems like a conpletely different guy. He has Isaac's best interest at heart, he greeted Kail and Javi, politely asked about Lincoln, and said goodbye to everyone. I doubt Jo was referencing to kidnapping and possibly killing Kailyn like in the Eminem song and I don't believe for a second that Javi took it that way.

I wonder if this was filmed after or before the reunion, where it came out that Kail has told Jo that she wants to divorce Javi and has asked Jo to go over to her house? It was denied by Kail, but based on her personality I believe it happened, Jo is so over her and Javi that I dont see any reason for him to make it up.If this was filmed after that, then it explains why Javi is so butt hurt around Jo.

[Universalhunter]

I really don't trust Jo....I think he's playing to the cameras, and I think he *was* making a snide comment akin to Eminem's rap...just my opinion.

He just rings false for me all the time.

Same. Much as I dislike Kail, I really don't like Jo any better. He doesn't get as much screen time to make a fool of himself, but I don't think he's matured as much as he gets credit for.

He rings false and self-righteous to me honestly- very similar to Kail. And his jokes are always really mean things disguised in a jokey tone. This one didn't bother me too much, but he's had a few doozies and as Isaac gets older, they're going to stop going over his head.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Universalhunter

[kccody]

I don't think Jo meant it that way at all. Isaac was whining and carrying on about not wanting to leave his mommy, and Jo jokingly offered to bring her along like luggage. Personally I thought it was funny. I don't think there was any connotation whatsoever about it being about taking Kail "away" from Javi, or about Jo wanting her to be with him.

 

Agree with you Chicken Wing. I teach 4 year olds and they understand silly. I believe Jo was just trying to get Issac to think that it would be silly to knock mom out and put in her the trunk. He ws trying to use humor to snap Issac out of his sad mood. I wonder how much of the "I don't want to go with you" comes back to the long drive- my kids dreaded 2 hour plus car rides at that age. I'd be willing to bet that when having fun at Jo and Vee's, Isaac doesn't want to leave there and complains too. Jo and Kail actually did a good job- they were pleasant to each other during the exchange. My feelings for Javi have actually ... dropped- he acted like a total ass.

[Chicken Wing]

I think he's playing to the cameras, and I think he *was* making a snide comment akin to Eminem's rap

 

I agree that Jo seems very camera-conscious with his behavior a lot of the time, and he may well have been putting on a fake positive attitude during this scene with the playful banter and joking around, but that doesn't mean he had any motives or intentions behind said joke. I really don't think he meant anything by it. I don't know, I hear a lot of lines or comments everywhere that remind me of various things but I don't think they're actually referring to them.

[HeySandyStrange]

While Joe isn't my favorite either, I have to give him a little respect because a) he has actually learned over the years how not to make a total ass of himself on camera and b) has limited his time on camera so he doesn't have as many chances to make himself look like a jerk.  Some of the other people in the Teen Mom franchise could take pointers from his example.  He also has to deal with mopey Kail and bitchy Javi, a fate I wouldn't put on almost anyone. 

[DangerousMinds]

Javi comes off as a lazy parent if he won't even bother to watch his own child for an hour. I get that he's the youngest and maybe in his family the womenfolk were in charge of all child care, but that's no excuse. My husband's family is the same way and yet when our daughter was born he jumped in and helped with her as soon as she was born. As a man and a good father, that's what you do. Seems to me that Javi wanted to have a child with Kail to make his mark so he and Jo could be even. Now the baby is here and he doesn't want to do anything. I despise Kail but if she had gone hulk smash on Javi at that moment I would have cheered. Overall, they are both despicable people, I hope eventually Isaac is able to go live full time with Jo and escape that mess.

I admit Javi acted like a jerk there, but it was just one scene and I hope he doesn't act like that all the time. If I were filmed, lord knows I have my share of moments when my behavior is unfortunate, and I'm 20 years older than Javi. I do think Javi comes from a big, extended family in which the women took care of the infants, and that's all he's seen. Hopefully he will change his ways and start to do his part with Lincoln. Overall, I think Kail and Javi are very young and have a big learning curve as far as marriage and babies. Well - Kail, despite her many personality flaws, does seem to be a competent mother as far as taking care of her kids' basic needs. IMHO, Jo is coming across better this season because we don't see much of him. If Isaac lived full-time with Jo, Jo would have to find child care for Isaac most days because I think he works full-time outside the home, ,and I don't see any family court judge agreeing that that would be better for Isaac than living with his currently SAHM. Also, I support Isaac going to school now, and Jo seems to be against that.

Same. Much as I dislike Kail, I really don't like Jo any better. He doesn't get as much screen time to make a fool of himself, but I don't think he's matured as much as he gets credit for.

He rings false and self-righteous to me honestly- very similar to Kail. And his jokes are always really mean things disguised in a jokey tone. This one didn't bother me too much, but he's had a few doozies and as Isaac gets older, they're going to stop going over his head.

Agreed - I think Jo has become a much better actor than Kail. We simply don't see as much of him and when we do he's on his best behavior.

Edited July 19, 2014 by DangerousMinds

[GreatKazu]

Maybe it's just me, but the way I view the whole Javi and Kail matter is, Kail has put Jo on blast any chance she gets. When she talks to Javi about Jo, it is always negative. Kail has made it clear time and time again how everything is Jo's fault. Now, after talking so much shit about Jo to Javi, why is it now such a shocker that Javi treats Jo like dirt? Also, Kail is an abuser. Javi knows he has to side with Kail or else. There is no wiggle room for his feelings or opinions. I don't feel one ounce of pity for Kail because she dug this hole herself. She created this mess and now she must lie in it. Javi doesn't want to watch the baby? Boo hoo! I am sorry that the baby must suffer the consequences, but this is all because Kail made the choice to shack up with Javi, tell him about getting married, moving at lightening speed, do all that dirty business behind Jo's back and the courts all because Kail had to have it HER WAY. Now, Javi  is starting to retaliate. Those arguments are not at all about being left with the baby. It is about Javi getting annoyed with how Kail always makes the decisions and probably goes upside his head to remind him who is the boss. So, nope, not going to side with Kail on this issue at all. I can't forget she is an abuser. If the cameras were not there, she probably would have slapped Javi for watching the baby.

 

 

 

I don't see any family court judge agreeing that that would be better for Isaac than living with his currently SAHM. Also, I support Isaac going to school now, and Jo seems to be against that.

Majority of single parents work full-time. There is no judge who will keep a child away from a parent simply because they work full-time and have to resort to childcare or after school care. This is not the 1950s. Jo won't have Isaac full-time because he knows he is better off with Kail, who chooses not to work because she found herself a guy who she can abuse to oblivion to doing what she wants.

Edited July 20, 2014 by GreatKazu

[Universalhunter]

And at the same time, Javi chose to forgive Kail and he chose to marry her and have a child with her. So boo hoo, I don't feel bad for Javi. He chose his life, Kail didn't choose it for him.

If she were really abusing him, it honestly would make me think even less of him that he doesn't want to have that baby with him any time he can to protect him.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Universalhunter

[Brooklynista]

Let me climb on the Javi train too. I would be a shiny quarter that if Kail wasn't the bruiser she is, Javi and Jo would be best buds like Corey and Jerrmee. But Javi knows that if he does anything outside of waving the Kail flag, that's his ass. Even if she's not putting her hands on him anymore,I bet the grief he'd get for saying "hi" to Jo would be never-ending. Kail doesn't want them to get along. She feeds off of that anomosity. She'll keep that shit going for as long as she can.

I think Javi not wanting to watch Lincoln was more about him saying "I'm not your bitch, bitch!" Than it was about him watching the kid. Kail wants what Kail wants, when she wants it and how she wants it and God help Javi if he doesn't make it happen.

Poor Javi probably just felt safe in that moment with the camera crew there to tell Kail to go screw.

[lilmarysunshine]

I think there is some truth to Javi acting like that to stick it to Kail and not just because he did not want to watch the baby. In fact, didn't he basically tell her that? That it always has to be her way? Again, I do not think this time she was being unreasonable. I would have been hella pissed at my husband if, at the end of a long day, he suggested I bring my infant son to Walmart (like it is ever easy to go there) with me because it was easier on him than leaving him at home - as if it is impossible to watch them both together.

But, in the bigger picture, I guess I can understand why he'd rebel because I do think Kail is extremely controlling. This stuff does not bode well for their marriage. I think their issues are much deeper than typical new parent ones with working out the kinks with a new baby.

[Chicken Wing]

I wholeheartedly agree that Javi's attitude where Jo is concerned is because his mind has been poisoned by Kail always talking smack about Jo. The only thing he ever hears about the guy is what an unreasonable jerk he is, how their relationship was terrible, how *gasp* she once had to file a PFA against him because he put his hands on her! (Yeah...) I can't really fault Javi for being inclined to dislike Jo. And on the rare occasion when Kail actually tries to stick up for Jo or say something positive, like how he really is a good parent and all and how she wants to compromise with him about Isaac, Javi thinks she's being manipulated because all he "knows" is Jo the Jackass while Kail knows perfectly well that there is much more to him than that and half the stuff she complained to Javi about probably wasn't even true. I don't really know if there's anything that can be done about that. The obvious solution would be for Javi to spend time with Jo, talk to Jo himself, and get his own opinion, but that's not likely to happen. He doesn't want to talk to Jo, and even if he was inclined to give things a shot he would be afraid of incurring Kail's wrath because he already thinks that Kail really hates Jo as much as he does. And even if he did it anyway and found a favorable side to Jo, he would still have his negative first impression coloring his opinion, still remember all the bad things that Kail said about him. Kail really should have kept her griping and whining about Jo to herself. It really wasn't any of Javi's business or his problem, and you really don't need to bring your drama with your ex into your new relationship - particularly since your ex has to be part of your life because you share a kid. Because this is exactly what will happen: Your new partner is predisposed to hating your ex, which makes things awkward when your ex has to interact with you guys because of the kid.

 

About Javi's attitude with taking care of the baby: I almost understand why he acted that way but I can't really take his side, either. He's a new parent, he's probably nervous about taking charge of the baby by himself and he likely comes from a family where the men simply didn't do much of the babycare so it's not something he thinks he has to do anyway. With a little time he'll get more comfortable with his skills with the baby, and he'll be disabused of the notion that it's not his job to help take care of his own kid. (I couldn't possibly have rolled my eyes any harder when Kail told Peach that Javi's response to her asking him to watch the baby for a bit in the morning was, "I just watched him for you yesterday!")

 

With the grocery shopping argument, it pains me to ever have to do this, but I side with Kail on this one. And it's not because Kail was "right," because in this situation, it wasn't about "right" so much as it was about common sense. She needed to go shopping, it's ten times harder to run errands while carrying an infant, there is no reason she should have to when the baby's father is right there and can watch him at home while she's out. Case closed, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know what was really behind Javi's refusal to do this when it's simply being practical. He brought up wanting to have bonding time with Isaac but I think that was just an excuse, because Kail had already said that Isaac was going to have a bath and go to bed, so what bonding were they going to do? I think Javi partly didn't want to have to be left in charge of the baby, and when Kail continued to argue with him he went for the "Why does it always have to be your way?" argument. Which is a valid argument most of the time with her, but in this case "her" way was using common sense so it's a silly time to pick this particular battle. I get why this would be Javi's go-to response to that. Kail is usually so sanctimonious and pushy, so I can get why someone who has to suffer through it every time is inclined to argue even when she does have a rational point. But now he's just being dumb. What these two really need is to figure out how to communicate with each other (ha!) and maybe sit down and figure out a schedule or a chore list or something for who does what with which kid when they're both at home. The majority of the time Kail is alone and has the responsibility over everything, but they need to work out what Javi will do when he comes home. And Javi needs to understand that he is not doing Kail a "favor" by doing a baby task. He is not a baby-sitter.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Chicken Wing

[RedKoolAide]

In my opinion, if Javi allows Kail to poison his mind against Jo without getting to know Jo on his own, then he's weak and wants to believe those things about Jo. I think Kail and Javi deserve each other. They both suck and neither of them gets sympathy from me. They chose this path.

On a completely different note, baby Addalynn(sp?) is not a cute kid. Forgive me but she's not.