S02.E08: The Seven Stages

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

A desperate Five concocts a risky plan to intercept another version of himself. The FBI tortures Vanya. Diego discovers what causes the apocalypse.

 Dropping on Netflix, Friday, July 31, 2020.

[formerlyfreedom]

Well, the paranoid Fives was probably not a huge surprise.

Poor Vanya. Responsible for destroying the world again. That's gonna hurt.

[Chaos Theory]

20 hours ago, saoirse said:

 

Poor Vanya. Responsible for destroying the world again. That's gonna hurt.

Yeah but this time it wasn’t really her fault.    Season one it was a choice.   This season the FBI tortured her until she blew.  I mean can anyone blame her for exploding the way she did?

The a Five vs Older Five stuff was amusing.   Luther is my least favorite of all the siblings (I can’t help it I find him the worst kind of douche bro). but even I found him humorous in this.  
 
I really enjoyed Diego making friends in The Commision.   
 

I am glad Ray turned out to be a sweet man.   

[koganei]

anyone knows why Five must jump back if not he will cease to exists?

I mean he will cease to exists anyway right because he will not mess it up and will remain an old person?

[GaT]

So, 2 seasons in a row Vanya is responsible for the apocalypse. I have no idea  if this has been renewed for season 3, but I hope this isn't going to be how every season goes.

[DearEvette]

"So are we burnin' or are we burying?"  as he begins to roll up his sleeves.  No explanations needed.  Man I love Klaus!

And again with the Klaus/Allison bonding.  I like that it was he who went straight to Allison and not Luther after the debacle in the alley.  And once again Allison and Ray break my heart, but again, I am not gonna lie, I howled when Diego and Herb showed up.  And Diego introduced himself with a handshake like it was nothing.  Poor Ray.  He did not sign up for this.  But hey, at least they can get his best rug shampooed.

Five is so done with his siblings.  I cracked up with his little mini-tantrum in the alley because I could so totally feel him.

And Season 2 Luther s 100x better than season 1 Luther.  Him between the battling/paranoid Fives is great.

Man Diego and his hyper focus on the JFK assassination is so annoying. He is selfish in his  tunnel vision.  Say you will about Five, he is always clear about trying to save his family and the world but you can tell his family is just as important to him.  I am glad that he saw that saving JFK is not the important thing now.

Given how much music seems to be as much of of the show as the storyline swear I think the creator of this show had that Butthole Surfer song (the one that kicks in during Anya's drugging) and decided it would work for a trippy scene and wrote one.  This is a trope-tastic scene of course with the clueless government types using drugs and torture on a super powered person even when taking a moment to think logically might stop them from doing so.  I mean she moved the building and caused... whatever the fuck she caused to happen ... with that guy's face and he doesn't pause for a moment and think "hmmm, that isn't quite natural.  I don't know what I am dealing with here, maybe I should think about this for a minute.  Maybe torture won't work.  Maybe it might make things worse."  See.. maybe if you had stopped to think you wouldn't be floating on a ceiling with no eyeballs.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

This is a trope-tastic scene of course with the clueless government types using drugs and torture on a super powered person even when taking a moment to think logically might stop them from doing so. 

"Hmmm its obvious that this person I am being a colossal dick to has some kind of power that can easily tear me to pieces, but I think I am going to keep poking them with my literal and metaphorical stick, I cant imagine this ending badly for me at all..." -this FBI moron, and many many dumbass now very dead villains before him. 

[AimingforYoko]

So, new entry for interrogations in the FBI handbook: Do not give an amnesiac with god-like powers LSD and high-voltage. Good to know.

[festivus]

21 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Given how much music seems to be as much of of the show as the storyline swear I think the creator of this show had that Butthole Surfer song (the one that kicks in during Anya's drugging) and decided it would work for a trippy scene and wrote one. 

I was just coming to say that I really liked the use of Pepper instead of the overused White Rabbit. Was the government using LSD at this time on people? I can see wanting to write that trippy scene. I liked it.

[Paloma]

On 8/2/2020 at 5:26 PM, Chaos Theory said:

On 8/1/2020 at 8:06 PM, saoirse said:

 

Poor Vanya. Responsible for destroying the world again. That's gonna hurt.

Yeah but this time it wasn’t really her fault.    Season one it was a choice.   This season the FBI tortured her until she blew.  I mean can anyone blame her for exploding the way she did?

I don't think it was a choice even in season one. She was justifiably angry about how she had been treated both in the past and in the present time, when she was lied to, kept drugged, treated as inferior, and locked in the vault. Most normal people would express that anger by yelling and/or emotionally pushing away people, but Vanya's power made the anger manifest physically. I doubt that when she was playing the violin at the concert she literally wanted to destroy the world. When her siblings showed up to stop her, she probably thought they were trying to physically hurt her and/or imprison her again, and she acted in self-defense. I'm not saying that her violent actions were justified, but I do think they were an understandable reaction to her experiences. And she could not have predicted that the energy she produced would hit the moon and thus destroy Earth.

It also bothers me that she is being portrayed as "the bomb" causing the apocalypse this season. After being tortured and drugged, she didn't even know what she was doing. Of course, the siblings don't know exactly what she was going through, so I don't really blame them for thinking that she is the cause. But the cause was really the torturers.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, festivus said:

I was just coming to say that I really liked the use of Pepper instead of the overused White Rabbit. Was the government using LSD at this time on people? I can see wanting to write that trippy scene. I liked it.

I love that song.

I love Ray and Allison, and that he was so understanding - but the introduction to Diego was funny. I also liked Case Management.

I hope Ben gets to clean off somehow. That scene was gross. 

Lila kidnaps Diego, and decides that he will be her boyfriend. I'm glad that he got out of there. He may have a one-track mind, but that's how they found out about Vanya, and where she was. 

I'm trying to resist watching the last two episodes. I want to save them for tomorrow.

The little boy at the end - I wonder what will happen there. 

[tennisgurl]

35 minutes ago, Anela said:

I love Ray and Allison, and that he was so understanding - but the introduction to Diego was funny. I also liked Case Management.

 

Poor Ray, he has just had to digest so much information so quickly, he is a real trooper for just kind of going along with it. Of course the poor guy cant just meet any of his wife's family in a normal way, its all getting bailed out of jail or appearing out of nowhere in the living room after almost being killed by the IKEA Mafia. Then Diego just shakes his hand like this is all just a totally normal Thursday, while Herb talks about using the body disposal service, its just a whole lot. 

Sometimes I wonder if they start every season picking a bunch of songs they like, and then write whole stories around them. I wish that they would put out a soundtrack or at least a Spotify station, their music selections are always so great.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

I assume that when Allison gets back to 2019 she'll look up 90+ year-old Ray. I hope he's eventually able to get a divorce on the grounds of abandonment and find someone else, maybe have a family, if that's what he wants.

[Linderhill]

On 8/3/2020 at 3:09 PM, DearEvette said:

Man Diego and his hyper focus on the JFK assassination is so annoying. He is selfish in his  tunnel vision.  Say you will about Five, he is always clear about trying to save his family and the world but you can tell his family is just as important to him.  I am glad that he saw that saving JFK is not the important thing now.

I totally agree with this.  He was so single minded to the exclusion of anything else.  I wanted to throttle him and tell him to read or watch that Stephen King book, 11/22/63.   He needed to worry about his family and avoiding the apocalypse.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I doubt that when she was playing the violin at the concert she literally wanted to destroy the world.

That's how I read it too. It seemed like she was in some kind of a trance, just like in this episode where she's being tortured. Unlike her siblings, she did not grow up learning how to control and use her powers, so now they're just sort of bursting out of her based on her emotions.

I loved the training film with the cartoon "Mr. Briefcase!" So corporate. Free coffee! Donuts every week!* (*fees apply.) Nitpick - that was not a 90 minute film reel on the projector. It was barely a 30 minute film.

I'm so glad they circled back to Old Five being in Dealey Plaza on that date from the first season. It's been bugging me all season long.

The seven stages of time paradox!

[Captain Carrot]

On 8/6/2020 at 5:34 PM, iMonrey said:

The seven stages of time paradox!

Itching, Me: That's not too bad.

Gassy, Me: That'snot too bad.

acute paranoia, Me: That's kinda bad.

HOMICIDAL RAGE, Me: This might be a bad idea.

[dargosmydaddy]

Yikes! A lot to digest here, and a lot of mood whiplash...

All the Vanya stuff was hard to watch, as well as the parallel scenes with Harlan. And the trippy brain-eating parts... interesting that Vanya was apparently the baby born in the very beginning of the pilot, though!

That was a disturbingly large puddle of Klaus vomit. And very milky looking, for some reason? (Klaus did warn Ben off dairy, so if there was a milk-drinking scene we didn't see... that's on Ben.)

I did find it contrived that Luther sent Klaus to get Allison rather than going himself. But Klaus at Allison's house was totally worth it, from his nonchalance about the body to then totally not helping with its disposal... and instead conversing with Ben, which of course doesn't seem like a conversation to Allison and Ray, who are just hearing Klaus go on about," It was like sex with one of the lesser Baldwins..." Bwah!

I didn't think Old Five looked anything like Young Five... even the mannerisms were off. Was that the same Old Five as last season?

Luther is such a dumbass, but Tom Hopper is clearly having fun with it.

Yes, Diego's one-track mindedness is annoying, but once he saw what happened, he got right down to business. And I do think he has the best normal-people interaction skills of the male siblings (which probably isn't saying much, but still...).

I thought "Sweetheart, your vagina needs glasses" was going to be the line of the episode, and then it was totally surpassed by, "All we're doing is getting rid of a mutant doppelganger. Amputating a vestigial nipple."

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I didn't think Old Five looked anything like Young Five... even the mannerisms were off. Was that the same Old Five as last season?

It was the same actor from season 1. I thought he was terrible here. He should have been imitating the Young Five's portrayal but he did not at all.

[ahisma]

21 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I did find it contrived that Luther sent Klaus to get Allison rather than going himself.

Is Luther really going to want to watch her have an anguished goodbye with a man she’s deeply in love with?

[The Companion]

On 8/3/2020 at 2:09 PM, DearEvette said:

"So are we burnin' or are we burying?"  as he begins to roll up his sleeves.  No explanations needed.  Man I love Klaus!

And again with the Klaus/Allison bonding.  I like that it was he who went straight to Allison and not Luther after the debacle in the alley.  And once again Allison and Ray break my heart, but again, I am not gonna lie, I howled when Diego and Herb showed up.  And Diego introduced himself with a handshake like it was nothing.  Poor Ray.  He did not sign up for this.  But hey, at least they can get his best rug shampooed.

Five is so done with his siblings.  I cracked up with his little mini-tantrum in the alley because I could so totally feel him.

 

I laughed so hard at Klaus's oh, so it's gonna be that kind night. Are we burning or burying line. I also loved Diego's handshake and Allison's sweet discussion with Ray about how she wished she could take the time to let him breakdown.

Meanwhile, I feel Five. My family is horrible at logistics and planning. 

On 8/4/2020 at 12:52 PM, Paloma said:

I don't think it was a choice even in season one. She was justifiably angry about how she had been treated both in the past and in the present time, when she was lied to, kept drugged, treated as inferior, and locked in the vault. Most normal people would express that anger by yelling and/or emotionally pushing away people, but Vanya's power made the anger manifest physically. I doubt that when she was playing the violin at the concert she literally wanted to destroy the world. When her siblings showed up to stop her, she probably thought they were trying to physically hurt her and/or imprison her again, and she acted in self-defense. I'm not saying that her violent actions were justified, but I do think they were an understandable reaction to her experiences. And she could not have predicted that the energy she produced would hit the moon and thus destroy Earth.

It also bothers me that she is being portrayed as "the bomb" causing the apocalypse this season. After being tortured and drugged, she didn't even know what she was doing. Of course, the siblings don't know exactly what she was going through, so I don't really blame them for thinking that she is the cause. But the cause was really the torturers.

I really hate how poor Vanya is "the bomb." Poor Vanya

On 8/5/2020 at 8:40 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I assume that when Allison gets back to 2019 she'll look up 90+ year-old Ray. I hope he's eventually able to get a divorce on the grounds of abandonment and find someone else, maybe have a family, if that's what he wants.

Well now I need a fanfic. 

On 8/10/2020 at 11:12 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

 

I thought "Sweetheart, your vagina needs glasses" was going to be the line of the episode, and then it was totally surpassed by, "All we're doing is getting rid of a mutant doppelganger. Amputating a vestigial nipple."

The entire discussion with The Handler was pure gold. I loved the exchange about some people not liking her where her response was "seems unlikely, but go on."

[WritinMan]

That was a pretty funny episode. A lot of great lines.

On 8/6/2020 at 5:34 PM, iMonrey said:

Nitpick - that was not a 90 minute film reel on the projector. It was barely a 30 minute film.

They can time travel. How do you know they can't get 90 minutes of film on a 30-minute reel?

Edited August 19, 2020 by WritinMan

[Danny Franks]

Okay, so Vanya caused the apocalypse again. Well... stick with what you're good at, I guess.

But I don't buy the idea that Kennedy would have declared war on the Soviet Union over that. Not when he put so much on the line to avoid war just a year earlier, in the Cuban Missile Crisis. By this time, he and Khrushchev had established a hotline that enabled them to talk to one another to dea-escalate a crisis like this. It just seems like a wrongheaded, naive take on the Cold War at that time. 

Vanya's drug trip reminded me of the absolute worst parts of playing the Far Cry games. I fucking hate all the trippy, 'ooh, this is so weird, isn't it cool?' imagery that always gets used for things like this. I didn't like the song that was used, either.

"Oh, it's gonna be one of those kinda nights. So... are we burning or burying?" Klaus is the best wingman... when he's sober.

How did Lila think Diego was ever going to do what she wanted? Seems like her over-confidence in her own abilities, and her own appeal, are as bad as her mother's.

I like that Herb got to actually do something. He's funny.

This was a very Five-heavy episode, and while I like him I'm not as enamoured as most people seem to be. Some of Aidan Gallagher's acting choices grate on me, and his twitchiness throughout this episode was irritating. I was very pleasantly relieved that the 'other Five' he was meeting was actually his old self. Not sure I could have done with Aidan playing off himself for a whole scene.

I did enjoy Luther playing his dozy sidekick, though. The poor guy really is out of his depth, with this stuff.

 

[theatremouse]

On 8/4/2020 at 9:40 AM, festivus said:

I was just coming to say that I really liked the use of Pepper instead of the overused White Rabbit. Was the government using LSD at this time on people? I can see wanting to write that trippy scene. I liked it.

I think the conspiracy theory is that the FBI thought LSD could function as "truth serum". The scene seemed to be playing on that theme.

On 8/10/2020 at 9:12 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

All the Vanya stuff was hard to watch, as well as the parallel scenes with Harlan. And the trippy brain-eating parts... interesting that Vanya was apparently the baby born in the very beginning of the pilot, though!

I'd assumed that was the case all along given the swimming pool baby was in Russia.