jhlipton December 16, 2014 Share December 16, 2014 I wonder how many Little Mermaid, Maleficient and 101 Dalmatian fans there are who will now try out "Once Upon a Time". Will the total number exceed 100? I guess we'll find out in March. If it is over 100 (LOL) maybe Disney will put its stamp on these eps like it did with Frozen. Although, from the introduction of the QueensOfDumbness ("We're going to to do evil because... well, because we're evil!), it doesn't seem like it. 1 Link to comment
RadioGirl27 December 16, 2014 Share December 16, 2014 (edited) Yeah...so what was the cliffhanger for 411 exactly? I don't know if it's because I'm spoiled that I don't see it, but seriously, I don't see what the cliffhanger is. Exactly, that's why I said it was lame. Was it Henry finding the books? Was it Emma agreeing to help Regina and Henry with their stupid quest? Was it Rumple gathering the Queens of Darkness? Who knows? Edited December 16, 2014 by RadioGirl27 2 Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 16, 2014 Share December 16, 2014 (edited) If it is over 100 (LOL) maybe Disney will put its stamp on these eps like it did with Frozen. Although, from the introduction of the QueensOfDumbness ("We're going to to do evil because... well, because we're evil!), it doesn't seem like it. Exactly, that's why I said it was lame. Was it Henry finding the books? Was it Emma agreeing to help Regina and Henry with their stupid quest? Was it Rumple gathering the Queens of Darkness? Who knows? I'm pretty sure the Queens of Dorkness were the cliffhanger. I don't think that's enough to encourage disheartened Rumpbelle and Outlaw Queen fans to come back, though. Even Captain Swan fans are pretty reluctant to keep watching because of the lack of payoff. Edited December 16, 2014 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
Tiger December 18, 2014 Share December 18, 2014 abc is not going to give A&E many more breaks, because the whole Frozen thing failed to bring in more viewers, and in fact proved that their writing is not good enough to even retain old ones. I'm seriously not surprised at the ratings drop. Maybe this means S5 is their last season. I wouldn't be surprised if this season was their last. Despite what A&E and/or ABC may say publicly, I think this show is on very thin ice. That said, I think k it's fate is largely contingent on three things totally out of it's control: 1) the cast of Castle signing on for another season, 2) how the networks midseason shows, particularly Fresh Off the Boat and American Crime, do, and 3) how Forever does for the remainder of the show. If ABC gets another season of Castle, a couple new hits and Forever continues to do okay, I think the net will dump this show. Link to comment
Dani-Ellie December 18, 2014 Share December 18, 2014 Unless spring ratings completely tank, I think we're good for a season five. Castle's ratings are lower than Once's. Forever is not doing okay, compared to the other scripted shows on ABC (it's already hit a 1.0 ... not good for a freshman show). A network is generally not going to cancel a show that performs decently for a show that doesn't perform as well (or underperforms, in Forever's case). 4 Link to comment
Mari December 18, 2014 Share December 18, 2014 It's going to be interesting to see what the ratings do. Personally, the last episode combined with some of the teaser interviews I've seen snippets of, have completely sapped any desire to watch the next episode. (I know some people hate watch shows; I can't. It just frustrates me.) 1 Link to comment
Serena December 18, 2014 Author Share December 18, 2014 ABC is not doing well. The only dramas they have doing better than Once are the Shonda ones. ALL their other dramas are either newbies who are tanking (Forever) or very old, and thus expensive shows (Castle - if the leads renew, it's gonna be at a steep price) who do worse than Once anyway. They don't have anything to put on Sunday. Resurrection is dead, Revenge is not doing well, if they canceled Once they'd have to re-build Sunday from scratch and they can't afford that when most of their other days are failing as well. They also have SHIELD which is super expensive and doing pretty bad. 4 Link to comment
RadioGirl27 December 18, 2014 Share December 18, 2014 We are getting season 5 unless 4B tanks really, really, hard. But I think that one would be the last. 2 Link to comment
Souris December 18, 2014 Share December 18, 2014 Yeah, I think a S5 of Once is a given unless 4B utterly craters. And even if that happens, I think it'd still be renewed. ABC is doing so terribly with every drama not done by Shonda, that Once is nowhere near the top of its list of problems. Even with its falling ratings, Once is one of ABC's bigger hits! But I think S5 could easily and likely be the last if ratings continue to flag -- especially if the cast's contracts are up at the end of S5 and many either don't renew or want a raise. 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda December 18, 2014 Share December 18, 2014 Shonda's shows are actually pretty terrible. I stopped watching Grey after 2 seasons, I binge watched Scandal last year which does not make me proud of myself and HTGAWM, Bless Viola Davis' heart. I love her, but I don't think the show is that great. Clearly what a lot of people wanna see a lot of clothes tearing, making out, sex...(not that there's anything wrong with that, but I hate gratuitous sex). I think Once is beyond safe. I'll die of shock if it didn't get a season 5. 2 Link to comment
HoodlumSheep December 18, 2014 Share December 18, 2014 I just read an article on Gotham (by Variety) about how viewership doubled in 30-day ratings "as time-shifting diversifies." Does ABC keep track of these ratings (for their own shows)? I'm just curious, because it seems like Fox has taken an interest in studying this stuff and I have no idea if ABC does the same. If they do, is there anyway of finding these numbers? Sorry if it's a stupid question. 1 Link to comment
Souris December 18, 2014 Share December 18, 2014 HBO announced that they're no longer going to verify/worry about Live + Same Day ratings. Not too surprising given they don't have to worry about advertisers. Link to comment
jhlipton December 18, 2014 Share December 18, 2014 Yeah, I think a S5 of Once is a given unless 4B utterly craters. Zap2it's By The Numbers has OUaT as "certain to be renewed". It would have to slide from 1.3 down to about .7 for i to get axed, and even then there's the syndication issue. The Mindy Project is surviving, not on ratings, but on building up enough episodes to clinch a syndication deal. Shonda's shows are actually pretty terrible. `Quality doesn't matter for renewal questions, only ratings and possible syndication. Scandal and HTGAWM are ABC's top hours, and only Modern Family beats them over all. Both are quite safe for another season. Link to comment
legaleagle53 December 18, 2014 Share December 18, 2014 ABC is not doing well. The only dramas they have doing better than Once are the Shonda ones. ALL their other dramas are either newbies who are tanking (Forever) or very old, and thus expensive shows (Castle - if the leads renew, it's gonna be at a steep price) who do worse than Once anyway. They don't have anything to put on Sunday. Resurrection is dead, Revenge is not doing well, if they canceled Once they'd have to re-build Sunday from scratch and they can't afford that when most of their other days are failing as well. They also have SHIELD which is super expensive and doing pretty bad. I see what you did there! :) 1 Link to comment
Camera One December 19, 2014 Share December 19, 2014 Zap2it's By The Numbers has OUaT as "certain to be renewed". It would have to slide from 1.3 down to about .7 for i to get axed, and even then there's the syndication issue. At this point, unfortunately, there's a big chance that 4B is REALLY bad, and the ratings could tank. That's what I'm afraid of. Since the setup for the back half of the season is just so terrible. 1 Link to comment
sharky December 19, 2014 Share December 19, 2014 But remember with media the way it is now, it's not just the numbers. Once repeatedly does well with trending topics on Twitter during the live broadcast, repeatedly does well with their +7 numbers and is apparently doing great on Netflix rewatches. And again, ABC is desperate. Once is easily on the renew side on Zap2it. I mean, if you want to see a failing storyline, look at Revenge. That show started out the same year as Once and was amazing. This season, they're throwing one desperate Hail Mary after another and I'm not hopeful. All Once has to do us maintain a number of 1.0 average and they'll be fine. Don't start getting worried just yet. 2 Link to comment
FurryFury December 19, 2014 Share December 19, 2014 Revenge became shit a lot faster than Once, though. Around the first midseason finale, when they've wussed out of killing a character they should have killed. Gotham is everything AoS isn't. Which is aimless, soapy drivel hinging on teasing future Batman villains? Yeah, quite different from AoS. Which has actually improved a lot in s2. Still not quite good, but way more watchable than Gotham. At this point, unfortunately, there's a big chance that 4B is REALLY bad, and the ratings could tank. That's what I'm afraid of. Since the setup for the back half of the season is just so terrible. Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked to see 1.5s in 4B. Adam and Eddy has squandered all their chances. They could have easily had a real hit on their hands if 4A was better written, simply thanks to Frozen. Link to comment
Rumsy4 December 19, 2014 Share December 19, 2014 Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked to see 1.5s in 4B. Adam and Eddy has squandered all their chances. They could have easily had a real hit on their hands if 4A was better written, simply thanks to Frozen. abc must be scratching their heads on what went wrong. Taking this to the All Seasons thread. Link to comment
Souris December 19, 2014 Share December 19, 2014 abc must be scratching their heads on what went wrong. Taking this to the All Seasons thread. I would hope TPTB at ABC are smart enough to realize what went wrong. WE see it quite clearly. If they do, it's a matter of whether they care to convey that to A&E or whether they have too much else to worry about on their schedule to bother. 1 Link to comment
Shanna Marie December 19, 2014 Share December 19, 2014 I have never in my life wished that a network would focus group a TV series until now. In this case, it might actually lead to improvements if they managed to get normal people from outside Hollywood to watch this arc and comment on it and then if the network dictated changes based on those comments. Link to comment
Curio December 19, 2014 Share December 19, 2014 Be careful what you wish for... I have some friends who casually watch the show, and they're perplexed as to why Belle had to break up with Rumple and they think Robin and Regina are awesome together. 4 Link to comment
legaleagle53 December 19, 2014 Share December 19, 2014 And then there are the Swan Queeners who will never die! Link to comment
Shanna Marie December 19, 2014 Share December 19, 2014 That's why I said "normal" people. :-) I've found in my informal polling that, in general, the people who gave up on the show did so either because of Regina herself or because Snow started as an awesome bandit but then got wimped out to prop up Regina. It might be interesting if they put together a focus group of people who came for the Frozen and then dropped out -- was it because of the handling of the Frozen stuff, were they intrigued by the Frozen but didn't like the regular characters, or was there something else they didn't like (like Robin Hood cheating on Maid Marian and then Snow White saying that adultery was nothing to be ashamed of)? You might still get a few rabid Swan Queeners in a focus group if they dropped out because their chosen pairing wasn't happening, but they're more likely to focus on the responses of people without a particular axe to grind who gave the show a try and then stopped watching. That's their problem spot. They won't worry too much about people who are still watching or those who haven't yet bothered, but when they draw and then lose an audience, they might want to find out why. 1 Link to comment
ParadoxLost December 20, 2014 Share December 20, 2014 I have never in my life wished that a network would focus group a TV series until now. In this case, it might actually lead to improvements if they managed to get normal people from outside Hollywood to watch this arc and comment on it and then if the network dictated changes based on those comments. I'm still convinced that there were focus groups related to the quality shift in season 1. I think focus groups are more bad than good. As an example, I have family members who won't watch shows with continuing storylines because it commits them to watching every week, even though they watch the shows they watch every week. That means everything they watch is the opposite of what I watch. I think OUAT is trying to serve both groups. Which leaves both groups frustrated. One group quits. The other group gripes constantly about no payoff. The shows I've loved best have tended to be the ones where the showrunners had a clear and uncompromising vision and either didn't cave to network pressure or weren't asked to because they were critical darlings. But this also meant they tended to be on verge of perpetual cancellation and ended too soon. This show compromised vision for longevity. 4 Link to comment
daxx December 20, 2014 Share December 20, 2014 Sounds like my fave, fringe. Continuing storyline poor ratings, gone far too soon. Sobs... 2 Link to comment
FurryFury December 20, 2014 Share December 20, 2014 (edited) Hey, it's not the ratings' fault the writers decided to create a totally unnecessary reboot in s4 by erasing all the previous characterization of anyone except Peter. Now that was a disappointment Once couldn't ever replicate - I loved s1 but it wasn't anywhere as awesome as Fringe's s3, and it was painful to see it squander its momentum. Sorry for the offtopic, I'm still hurt. Edited December 20, 2014 by FurryFury 1 Link to comment
Rumsy4 December 20, 2014 Share December 20, 2014 Goodness I agree. Fringe S4 was a disaster. I don't think the writers had a plan beyond S3 (which was definitely the best season). But the mini S5 sort of redeemed the show. Besides, Walter, Peter, Olivia, and Astrid are such beloved characters, and their inter-personal dynamics were amazing. 2 Link to comment
Emma December 23, 2014 Share December 23, 2014 http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/12/22/modern-family-has-biggest-adults-18-49-ratings-constantine-the-vampire-diaries-top-percentage-gains-in-live-7-ratings-for-week-11-ending-december-7/342014/ DVR numbers for episode 10. It rose from a 2.0 to a 3.2 in the demo and from 6.2 to 9.1 million viewers. Next week we'll have the numbers for the mid finale. Link to comment
orza December 23, 2014 Share December 23, 2014 This was to be expected. Some people don't want to believe it, but an important football game really will suck all the viewers away from other programming. CBS also did poorly in the live numbers that night. Major sports events are must-see-live events. People are willing to record almost everything else to watch later but not The Big Game. Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 23, 2014 Share December 23, 2014 (edited) http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/12/16/sunday-final-ratings-bobs-burgers-adjusted-up-60-minutes-adjusted-down-final-football-ratings/339851/ According to this, Once only had 5.69 viewers for the winter finale. If that's true, it's a new all-time low for the series, 0.26 million viewers less than Bleeding Through. Edited December 23, 2014 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
Serena December 23, 2014 Author Share December 23, 2014 Vulture is reporting that OUAT is in the top 10 most watched shows by women, and the number one most watched show by teen girls. Link to comment
Mathius December 24, 2014 Share December 24, 2014 (edited) http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/12/16/sunday-final-ratings-bobs-burgers-adjusted-up-60-minutes-adjusted-down-final-football-ratings/339851/ According to this, Once only had 5.69 viewers for the winter finale. If that's true, it's a new all-time low for the series, 0.26 million viewers less than Bleeding Through. We knew this for a while now already.Last year's winter finale also hit the series low until "Bleeding Through" came, and in all these cases the holiday season is a factor ("Bleeding Through" literally aired ON EASTER). The lackluster marketing for both winter finales ("Going Home"'s commercial spoiled basically everything, and "Heroes and Villains"' one gave away the Frozen cast departing) didn't help. Edited December 24, 2014 by Mathius Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 24, 2014 Share December 24, 2014 We knew this for a while now already. It wasn't posted here, though. 1 Link to comment
retrograde December 27, 2014 Share December 27, 2014 Surprised to see that ABC is screening two episodes of Galavant a week for four weeks in January, instead of one each for eight taking it through February as well. I guess that means any new fans it brings are unlikely to trickle over to Once. 1 Link to comment
Camera One December 27, 2014 Share December 27, 2014 "Once Upon a Wonderland" would have worked well during this hiatus. The friend I marathoned with was curious about Will and "Wonderland" shows his backstory with Robin Hood. 3 Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 27, 2014 Share December 27, 2014 (edited) I resent ABC for not putting Wonderland on during the hiatus. It would have kept us all talking. Showing it while Once was on didn't entice viewers at all because they had already gotten their fix for the week. Plus, why watch the weaker when you have the stronger? Wonderland just felt super underutilized. Edited December 27, 2014 by KingOfHearts 2 Link to comment
retrograde December 27, 2014 Share December 27, 2014 Yeah, I'd have probably actually watched it all the way through if they'd done it that way. It's a shame it isn't on Netflix and/or Hulu, or I'd suggest we do out own rewatch/watch for the first time here during the hiatus (I personally have no qualms about obtaining it via... other means, but I don't know how many others would be on board with that). Does anyone remember what ABC had on at 8pm during February sweeps in 2014? Link to comment
Serena December 27, 2014 Author Share December 27, 2014 Hopefully they show Once reruns the 4 weeks after Galavant ends and before Once begins. 1 Link to comment
Emma December 29, 2014 Share December 29, 2014 DVR numbers for the mid finale. http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/12/29/the-big-bang-theory-has-biggest-adults-18-49-ratings-elementary-tops-percentage-gains-in-live-7-ratings-for-week-12-ending-december-14/344258/ Up from a 1.7 to a 2.9 in the demo and from 5.7 to 8.5 million viewers. Link to comment
legaleagle53 December 29, 2014 Share December 29, 2014 (edited) Yeah, I'd have probably actually watched it all the way through if they'd done it that way. It's a shame it isn't on Netflix and/or Hulu, or I'd suggest we do out own rewatch/watch for the first time here during the hiatus (I personally have no qualms about obtaining it via... other means, but I don't know how many others would be on board with that). Does anyone remember what ABC had on at 8pm during February sweeps in 2014? Probably not, since NBC had the 2014 Winter Olympics for half of the month. As I recall, it was also the middle of awards season, so we had the Oscars and various music awards to contend with as well. Edited December 29, 2014 by legaleagle53 1 Link to comment
Serena January 5, 2015 Author Share January 5, 2015 EW has Once as "likely to stick around" on its ratings scorecard. Link to comment
kili January 5, 2015 Share January 5, 2015 (edited) EW has Once as "likely to stick around" on its ratings scorecard. It's interesting to read some of the other comments on lower related shows likely to stick around. The odds of staying on the air increase if the broadcast company owns the production and if the syndication rates are good (Elementary gets $3M per episode in syndication). Given that Once is one of the two most watched shows on Netflix and ABC owns the series, I wonder if that also refactors it in the "likely to stick around" calculation. Plus, it does relatively well on a Sunday night which is not known for its stellar ratings for non-sports shows. Edited January 5, 2015 by kili 1 Link to comment
Souris January 5, 2015 Share January 5, 2015 Thought the Galavant ratings might be of interest since it was in Once's slot: Galavant (8-8:30pm – 7.9 million and 2.1/6 in AD18-49): At 8pm, ABC’s Galavant jumped over its Adult 18-49 lead-in (+62% – 2.1/6 vs. 1.3/4) to beat its non-NFL-driven competition on NBC by 17% (1.8/5 for Dateline) and CBS by 40% (1.5/4 for Madam Secretary). Excluding only NBC’s Marry Me coming out of The Voice, Galavant is TV’s top-rated comedy debut since black-ish in September – since 9/24/14. In addition, it was the highest-rated Sunday series debut since March – since 3/9/14. Galavant was also up over Once Upon a Time’s most recent airing in the half hour in Total Viewers (+44%) and Adults 18-49 (+24%). It did drop a bit for the second half-hour. Link to comment
Curio January 5, 2015 Share January 5, 2015 Galavant was also up over Once Upon a Time’s most recent airing in the half hour in Total Viewers (+44%) and Adults 18-49 (+24%). I think a better comparison between the two shows will be 4B's premiere numbers and Galavant's premiere. Finales just tend to do worse than premieres in general. But good for Galavant! I think keeping the episode count lower and having it be a 4-week event instead of a season-long show will amp up its hype and get more people to watch live. (I kind of hope it's just a one season show with a satisfying ending, but if there's a Season 2, is it too much to ask for a guest star appearance by some of the Once cast? Particularly the cast members who can actually sing? I think we all know who I'm hinting at here...) 1 Link to comment
Souris January 5, 2015 Share January 5, 2015 I think a better comparison between the two shows will be 4B's premiere numbers and Galavant's premiere. Finales just tend to do worse than premieres in general. Oh, absolutely! Link to comment
Serena January 5, 2015 Author Share January 5, 2015 Galavant didn't do badly, but it was only on par with Once's lowest rated episodes. Which is still good for ABC, honestly. Looking at the other stuff ABC aired on Sunday, we should be grateful Once isn't on until March. Revenge and Resurrection are pretty much dead. Week 2 ratings should be interesting. Resurrection premiered even higher than Galavant last March, and now it's really, really low. Although I thought Galavant was pretty fun, so I can't think of a reason people who stayed for the second half hour shouldn't come back next week! Link to comment
Camera One January 6, 2015 Share January 6, 2015 That's probably ideal. It would have looked bad if Galavant blew Once out of the water in ratings. I like the show, so I wanted the ratings to be decent. Hope these viewers stay relatively loyal for 4 weeks... Link to comment
ShadowFacts January 6, 2015 Share January 6, 2015 From the Once Upon a Time vs. Other Fairy Tales thread: I don't think there's a lot of concern on the ABC execs part for solely retaining ONCE's audience. They just want people to watch, they don't care who they are (ONCE viewers or not) as long as they fit in the coveted 18-49 demo. There was simply a better chance for grabbing eyeballs to watch Galavant using ONCE's temporarily vacated time slot versus a time slot where users normally watch, for example, Scandal or Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. I am not media-savvy in the least but you guys are so I ask: why is that 18-49 demographic still so coveted? It may be that I have a false impression, but I thought that many younger people don't watch live network t.v. much anymore, and that older people actually have lots of disposable income. Also, I seem to see a lot of big pharma ads in primetime directed towards the over 50 viewer, you know the ones I'm talking about. What gives with the 18 to 49? Link to comment
Camera One January 6, 2015 Share January 6, 2015 I think part of it is just because it has been the norm for so long along with upfronts, traditional TV seasons, etc.. Arguments for valuing 18-49 include that younger people are more open to changing brands, and are harder to find, so if a show is able to draw them in, that's a good thing; whereas older viewers are predictable, so advertisers know when to air those ads. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/booming/advertisers-often-ignore-baby-boomers.html?ref=media I'm sure this will change eventually, especially as traditional network TV itself continues to erode away. 1 Link to comment
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